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Carlota69
09-15-2008, 12:17 PM
(CNN) -- Former Bush adviser Karl Rove said Sunday that Sen. John McCain had gone "one step too far" in some of his recent ads attacking Sen. Barack Obama.


Karl Rove said both candidates are guilty of going too far in their attacks.

Rove has leveled similar criticism against Obama.

"McCain has gone in some of his ads -- similarly gone one step too far," he told Fox News, "and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the '100 percent truth' test."

The Obama campaign immediately leaped on the quote.

"In case anyone was still wondering whether John McCain is running the sleaziest, most dishonest campaign in history, today Karl Rove -- the man who held the previous record -- said McCain's ads have gone too far," said campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor, in a statement sent to reporters minutes after Rove's on-air comments. Rove masterminded both of President Bush's successful White House bids.

Rove said both candidates need to "be careful" about their attacks on each other.

"They ought to -- there ought to be an adult who says, 'Do we really need to go that far in this ad? Don't we make our point and won't we get broader acceptance and deny the opposition an opportunity to attack us if we don't include that one little last tweak in the ad?' " he said.

Obama on Saturday accused McCain and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin of avoiding the issues to "distort" his record.

"They're going to talk about pigs, and they're going to talk about lipstick; they're going to talk about Paris Hilton, they're going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record, and they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do," he said at a stop in Manchester, New Hampshire.

McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds criticized Obama for showing "zero restraint," considering what Gulf Coast residents were facing after Hurricane Ike. Bounds said the "attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama."

The Obama campaign shot back and accused McCain of "cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history."

McCain said last week that he thinks the tone of the campaign would be different had Obama agreed to appear with him in town hall meetings across the country.

Both McCain and Obama laid low on Sunday. McCain attended a NASCAR race in Loudon, New Hampshire.

Obama had no public events scheduled, but Sen. Hillary Clinton hit the trail for him in Akron, Ohio.

Clinton repeated her campaign one-liner -- "No way, no how, no McCain, no Palin."

The New York senator said "all that McCain and Palin offer is four more years of the same failed policies and wrong direction and disappointment and difficulties that have confronted our country."

"Barack and I may have started out on two separate paths, but we are on one journey now," she said.

Meanwhile, the Obama campaign announced Sunday that it had raised $66 million in August. The new total bests the campaign's previous high of $55 million, which came in February during his tough primary fight with Clinton.

The Obama campaign said more than half a million new donors contributed in August, when the Illinois senator accepted the Democratic presidential nomination and named Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware as his running mate. The campaign had more than $77 million in cash on hand at the end of August, compared with about $66 million in July.

On September 1, McCain's campaign reported raising $47 million in August. That haul also set a monthly record for the Arizona senator, whose campaign says it received a financial shot in the arm after McCain picked Palin to join the ticket.

Obama has rejected public financing, calling the system "broken" -- a decision that frees him to continue raising money for November.

McCain has accepted federal matching funds for his general election campaign, giving him $84 million to spend for November. The money comes with strict spending limits, but the Republican National Committee's victory fund can continue to raise and spend money on his behalf.

With Palin on the campaign trail, McCain has been seeing increased numbers and energy at his campaign events.

The two will hold joint town hall meetings sometime early this week.

A McCain adviser said early plans are to hold the town halls in western Michigan and Wisconsin, although the exact details of where and when they will be held are still being worked out.

Thig Lyfe
09-15-2008, 12:20 PM
Wow. That's like Richard III telling somebody they maybe killed too many people to capture the throne.


McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds criticized Obama for showing "zero restraint," considering what Gulf Coast residents were facing after Hurricane Ike. Bounds said the "attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama."


The f_ck does Hurricane Ike have to do with anything?

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 12:31 PM
Wow. That's like Richard III telling somebody they maybe killed too many people to capture the throne.



The f_ck does Hurricane Ike have to do with anything?

Not real sure.:eek:

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-15-2008, 12:34 PM
POW, Ike, Pig, POW, Ike, Pig!!

Programmer
09-15-2008, 12:36 PM
(CNN) -- Former Bush adviser Karl Rove said Sunday that Sen. John McCain had gone "one step too far" in some of his recent ads attacking Sen. Barack Obama.


Karl Rove said both candidates are guilty of going too far in their attacks.

Rove has leveled similar criticism against Obama.

"McCain has gone in some of his ads -- similarly gone one step too far," he told Fox News, "and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the '100 percent truth' test."

The Obama campaign immediately leaped on the quote.

"In case anyone was still wondering whether John McCain is running the sleaziest, most dishonest campaign in history, today Karl Rove -- the man who held the previous record -- said McCain's ads have gone too far," said campaign spokesman Tommy Vietor, in a statement sent to reporters minutes after Rove's on-air comments. Rove masterminded both of President Bush's successful White House bids.

Rove said both candidates need to "be careful" about their attacks on each other.

"They ought to -- there ought to be an adult who says, 'Do we really need to go that far in this ad? Don't we make our point and won't we get broader acceptance and deny the opposition an opportunity to attack us if we don't include that one little last tweak in the ad?' " he said.

Obama on Saturday accused McCain and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin of avoiding the issues to "distort" his record.

"They're going to talk about pigs, and they're going to talk about lipstick; they're going to talk about Paris Hilton, they're going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record, and they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do," he said at a stop in Manchester, New Hampshire.

McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds criticized Obama for showing "zero restraint," considering what Gulf Coast residents were facing after Hurricane Ike. Bounds said the "attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama."

The Obama campaign shot back and accused McCain of "cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history."

McCain said last week that he thinks the tone of the campaign would be different had Obama agreed to appear with him in town hall meetings across the country.

Both McCain and Obama laid low on Sunday. McCain attended a NASCAR race in Loudon, New Hampshire.

Obama had no public events scheduled, but Sen. Hillary Clinton hit the trail for him in Akron, Ohio.

Clinton repeated her campaign one-liner -- "No way, no how, no McCain, no Palin."

The New York senator said "all that McCain and Palin offer is four more years of the same failed policies and wrong direction and disappointment and difficulties that have confronted our country."

"Barack and I may have started out on two separate paths, but we are on one journey now," she said.

Meanwhile, the Obama campaign announced Sunday that it had raised $66 million in August. The new total bests the campaign's previous high of $55 million, which came in February during his tough primary fight with Clinton.

The Obama campaign said more than half a million new donors contributed in August, when the Illinois senator accepted the Democratic presidential nomination and named Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware as his running mate. The campaign had more than $77 million in cash on hand at the end of August, compared with about $66 million in July.

On September 1, McCain's campaign reported raising $47 million in August. That haul also set a monthly record for the Arizona senator, whose campaign says it received a financial shot in the arm after McCain picked Palin to join the ticket.

Obama has rejected public financing, calling the system "broken" -- a decision that frees him to continue raising money for November.

McCain has accepted federal matching funds for his general election campaign, giving him $84 million to spend for November. The money comes with strict spending limits, but the Republican National Committee's victory fund can continue to raise and spend money on his behalf.

With Palin on the campaign trail, McCain has been seeing increased numbers and energy at his campaign events.

The two will hold joint town hall meetings sometime early this week.

A McCain adviser said early plans are to hold the town halls in western Michigan and Wisconsin, although the exact details of where and when they will be held are still being worked out.

So where do we go from here?

One side wants some face to face debates, the other doesn't. How else are they going to get some kind of fair comparison going? Answer: They aren't and are bending to the only other avenue.

I think it's right that it wouldn't be as muddy as it is if Obama had not of backed out of the Town Hall meetings. Both would be too busy loading up with information for those meetings.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 12:46 PM
So where do we go from here?

One side wants some face to face debates, the other doesn't. How else are they going to get some kind of fair comparison going? Answer: They aren't and are bending to the only other avenue.

I think it's right that it wouldn't be as muddy as it is if Obama had not of backed out of the Town Hall meetings. Both would be too busy loading up with information for those meetings.


Didn't he agree to some town halls, just not as many as the repubs wanted? I thought I read that somewhere. Is that incorrect?

mlyonsd
09-15-2008, 01:03 PM
I saw the exchange on Fox. Rove was speaking only from a political POV. Not that the attacks weren't merrited, but how responding the way they did might affect the political climate.

Rove's statement, taken in it's entirety, was all about how each of them making negative ads and why each of them shouldn't. But of course it doesn't surprise me CNN would take it out of context. Distorting someone's comments isn't something really new to them.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 01:15 PM
Didn't he agree to some town halls, just not as many as the repubs wanted? I thought I read that somewhere. Is that incorrect?

After I heard that he backed out (of some I guess) I kind of lost interest. I feel that Obama gave up the race at that point. What better way to show that you are the better person for the job?

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 01:20 PM
After I heard that he backed out (of some I guess) I kind of lost interest. I feel that Obama gave up the race at that point. What better way to show that you are the better person for the job?

Does anybody know how many he agreed to, if at all?

I think he did agree to some. I think he also wanted regular forum debates, not all town halls. Thats why he didnt agree to some of them. But, I can't be sure. Maybe someone knows for sure?

ROYC75
09-15-2008, 01:29 PM
Does anybody know how many he agreed to, if at all?

I think he did agree to some. I think he also wanted regular forum debates, not all town halls. Thats why he didnt agree to some of them. But, I can't be sure. Maybe someone knows for sure?


I heard it was 4, but he backed out cause they were town hall style. He wanted debates, when McCain said the debates would be done later , just before the elections.

I agree,it's both parties that are at fault......... CNN used it to their own special interest .

mlyonsd
09-15-2008, 01:29 PM
Does anybody know how many he agreed to, if at all?

I think he did agree to some. I think he also wanted regular forum debates, not all town halls. Thats why he didnt agree to some of them. But, I can't be sure. Maybe someone knows for sure?

I don't think they formally agreed to any, just that at one point both said they'd do it.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't think they formally agreed to any, just that at one point both said they'd do it.

When are the debates anyways? Late October?

mlyonsd
09-15-2008, 01:41 PM
When are the debates anyways? Late October?

I think the first one is a week from Friday?

mlyonsd
09-15-2008, 01:43 PM
When are the debates anyways? Late October?

September 26, 2008: Presidential debate with domestic policy focus, University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS (Tickets (http://www.olemiss.edu/debate/activities_events/students/))
October 2, 2008: Vice Presidential debate, Washington University, St. Louis, MO (Tickets (http://debate.wustl.edu/tickets.html))
October 7, 2008: Presidential debate in a town hall format, Belmont University, Nashville, TN (Tickets (http://www.belmontdebate08.com/ticketing))
October 15, 2008:Presidential debate with foreign policy focus, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY (Tickets (http://www.hofstra.edu/debate/debate_tickets.html))

http://www.youdecide2008.com/2007/06/13/full-2008-debate-schedule-from-dnc-and-gop/

Programmer
09-15-2008, 01:50 PM
September 26, 2008: Presidential debate with domestic policy focus, University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS (Tickets (http://www.olemiss.edu/debate/activities_events/students/))
October 2, 2008: Vice Presidential debate, Washington University, St. Louis, MO (Tickets (http://debate.wustl.edu/tickets.html))
October 7, 2008: Presidential debate in a town hall format, Belmont University, Nashville, TN (Tickets (http://www.belmontdebate08.com/ticketing))
October 15, 2008:Presidential debate with foreign policy focus, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY (Tickets (http://www.hofstra.edu/debate/debate_tickets.html))

http://www.youdecide2008.com/2007/06/13/full-2008-debate-schedule-from-dnc-and-gop/

It is my opinion that Obama will not get into a town hall discussion becasue he doesn't know the questions in advance and have an opportunity to have prepared answers. He does not do well on his feet when the questions are unscripted. Should he win the election what will he do when he is in a situation that needs an answer? Tell the world to stop while he consults with his handlers? That has always been my problem with Obama, he does not seem to be his own man. McCain can walk into the debates cold and have as good or better answers than Obama will have.

I would bet that Obama's aim during the debates will be to try to get McCain angry. I could be wrong, but let's wait and see.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 01:55 PM
It is my opinion that Obama will not get into a town hall discussion becasue he doesn't know the questions in advance and have an opportunity to have prepared answers. He does not do well on his feet when the questions are unscripted. Should he win the election what will he do when he is in a situation that needs an answer? Tell the world to stop while he consults with his handlers? That has always been my problem with Obama, he does not seem to be his own man. McCain can walk into the debates cold and have as good or better answers than Obama will have.

I would bet that Obama's aim during the debates will be to try to get McCain angry. I could be wrong, but let's wait and see.

He is doing a Town Hall debate. Its the 3rd debate overall. Also, don't all Presidents consult with their people/staff before making decisions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont all great leaders have even better people around them?

banyon
09-15-2008, 02:22 PM
This is like an Onion headline. Amazing that it's true.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 02:24 PM
He is doing a Town Hall debate. Its the 3rd debate overall. Also, don't all Presidents consult with their people/staff before making decisions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont all great leaders have even better people around them?

I think that is the desire, but the President needs to be able to answer without consult. He needs to be able to answer questions from the press on the spot without melting down. I've seen a few with Obama when he was totally out of control and unable to utter an intelligible sentence. IMO a full out town hall that is not scripted will hurt him beyond belief. (Which is OK with me as I do not trust him, call it what you may but there is something wrong with the whole concept of Obama.)

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 02:31 PM
I think that is the desire, but the President needs to be able to answer without consult. He needs to be able to answer questions from the press on the spot without melting down. I've seen a few with Obama when he was totally out of control and unable to utter an intelligible sentence. IMO a full out town hall that is not scripted will hurt him beyond belief. (Which is OK with me as I do not trust him, call it what you may but there is something wrong with the whole concept of Obama.)

Well, to be fair, I've seen McCain melt down without being briefed as well. The whole viagra/birth control question. Deer in the headlights for sure. So, again, they all have their moments of not knowing what the **** they are talking about and need their "handlers" to brief them real quick-like.:)

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
I think that is the desire, but the President needs to be able to answer without consult. He needs to be able to answer questions from the press on the spot without melting down. I've seen a few with Obama when he was totally out of control and unable to utter an intelligible sentence. IMO a full out town hall that is not scripted will hurt him beyond belief. (Which is OK with me as I do not trust him, call it what you may but there is something wrong with the whole concept of Obama.)

The president doesn't need to speak to people, he'll have plenty of staff around him.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 02:49 PM
The president doesn't need to speak to people, he'll have plenty of staff around him.

As always, you are totaly out of context.

Go away now so the adults can continue the discussion.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 02:59 PM
As always, you are totaly out of context.

Go away now so the adults can continue the discussion.


LOL, all you got is slander on me (which you don't know)

call me names, makes me laugh

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:13 PM
LOL, all you got is slander on me (which you don't know)

call me names, makes me laugh

Where there is truth there is no slander.

You are what you are.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Where there is truth there is no slander.

You are what you are.

That is true.

I am a man.

You are a sniveling turd.

lolololol

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
09-15-2008, 03:28 PM
It is my opinion that Obama will not get into a town hall discussion becasue he doesn't know the questions in advance and have an opportunity to have prepared answers. He does not do well on his feet when the questions are unscripted. Should he win the election what will he do when he is in a situation that needs an answer? Tell the world to stop while he consults with his handlers? That has always been my problem with Obama, he does not seem to be his own man. McCain can walk into the debates cold and have as good or better answers than Obama will have.

I would bet that Obama's aim during the debates will be to try to get McCain angry. I could be wrong, but let's wait and see.


If you voted for Bush I hope you realize how hypocritical your opinion of Obama is.

BucEyedPea
09-15-2008, 03:39 PM
I sure wish Obama would attack Juan McCain on amnesty, Hernandez on his staff and on his love of war. That outta sink him. But he won't...I wonder why? *wiggles brow*

orange
09-15-2008, 03:43 PM
He is doing a Town Hall debate. Its the 3rd debate overall. Also, don't all Presidents consult with their people/staff before making decisions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont all great leaders have even better people around them?

An interesting point.

Let's try out a hypothetical case.

Pres. Palin is at a meeting of the NSC and someone mentions "the Bush Doctrine." Pres. Palin says "what?"

Now what happens:

1) Someone explains the "Bush Doctrine" and the meeting continues.

or

2) The government and the country grind to a halt and Putin takes over the world.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:49 PM
If you voted for Bush I hope you realize how hypocritical your opinion of Obama is.

We aren't talking about Bush here. That is one of the problems that liberals seem to have around the country. The have a problem understanding that he is a lamd duck and not in the race.

Obama has earned my opinion of him, he is not what we need in office trying to play president. He has the leadership skills of a night crawler.

banyon
09-15-2008, 05:17 PM
An interesting point.

Let's try out a hypothetical case.

Pres. Palin is at a meeting of the NSC and someone mentions "the Bush Doctrine." Pres. Palin says "what?"

Now what happens:

1) Someone explains the "Bush Doctrine" and the meeting continues.

or

2) The government and the country grind to a halt and Putin takes over the world.

Could you simplify this a bit more?

penchief
09-16-2008, 06:27 AM
So where do we go from here?

One side wants some face to face debates, the other doesn't. How else are they going to get some kind of fair comparison going? Answer: They aren't and are bending to the only other avenue.

I think it's right that it wouldn't be as muddy as it is if Obama had not of backed out of the Town Hall meetings. Both would be too busy loading up with information for those meetings.

So, just because one guy wants town hall meetings and doesn't get what he wants, that's reason enough for him to act like a lying piece of shit? Yeah, that's exactly what we need in a leader. Considering George W. Bush's legacy, I'm thinking we should set our sights a little higher than that.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 06:39 AM
So, just because one guy wants town hall meetings and doesn't get what he wants, that's reason enough for him to act like a lying piece of shit? Yeah, that's exactly what we need in a leader. Considering George W. Bush's legacy, I'm thinking we should set our sights a little higher than that.

Penchief, McCain is not George Bush. It seems like that is the sole sticking point for the democrats in this election. Not a single one of you realizes this is not an election that includes GWB in any way shape or form.

penchief
09-16-2008, 06:48 AM
Penchief, McCain is not George Bush. It seems like that is the sole sticking point for the democrats in this election. Not a single one of you realizes this is not an election that includes GWB in any way shape or form.

Then why is he behaving like him? That is one of the primary reasons he is drawing the comparison. That and his pledge to continue Bush's economic policies.

If he isn't Bush then why is he resorting to lies and distortions about his opponent? Why is he resorting to a Rove-style smear campaign? And why is he placing PR gimmicks (Palin) ahead of substance?

McCain is putting victory before of honor and country. That was Bush then and it's McCain now. And I can only assume that once he is in power he will not waver from the tactics that rewarded him with the presidency. Just like Bush governed with the same lack of integrity that he campaigned with, I would expect McCain to do the same.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 06:51 AM
Then why is he behaving like him? That is one of the primary reasons he is drawing the comparison. That and his pledge to continue Bush's economic policies.

If he isn't Bush then why is he resorting to lies and distortions about his opponent? Why is he resorting to a Rove-style smear campaign? And why is he placing PR gimmicks (Palin) ahead of substance?

McCain is putting victory before of honor and country. That was Bush then and it's McCain now. And I can only assume that once he is in power he will not waver from the tactics that rewarded him with the presidency. Just like Bush governed with the same lack of integrity that he campaigned with, I would expect McCain to do the same.

That is your perception of what he is, not what he is and that is my point. You cannot, or will not, consider anything other than McCain = Bush. It's outside your abiltiy because of your political stand. You are no different than those Republicans that can see no value in Obama.

For your last comment. Obama is doing the exact same thing and will do the exact same thing. It's politics. You are fooled by the idealogy of Obama, but if he should win you will find there is no substance to anything he has said to date.

Mecca
09-16-2008, 06:59 AM
I don't think you understand how many people that vote will take their dislike of Bush and go "this guy is a republican too, I'm voting for the other guy"

penchief
09-16-2008, 07:01 AM
That is your perception of what he is, not what he is and that is my point. You cannot, or will not, consider anything other than McCain = Bush. It's outside your abiltiy because of your political stand. You are no different than those Republicans that can see no value in Obama.

I am basing it on his conduct and his expressed policies. Plain and simple.

If you want more trickle down, more corporate welfare, and more deregulation of the business crooks who've hijacked our economy, then by all means, vote for John McCain.

If you want divisive gutter politics, base appeals to prejudice and fear, and media manipulation to determine who our president is, then by all means, reward that behavior and vote for the Rove candidate, John McCain.

Regarding the future path of this country, John McCain = George Bush. No amount of deflection or denial will change the fact that he is in line with Bush's one-sided policies and that he is resorting to the Bush campaign playbook.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 07:03 AM
I don't think you understand how many people that vote will take their dislike of Bush and go "this guy is a republican too, I'm voting for the other guy"

If that was a comment to me, the reply is undoubtedly. Those are the people that look no further than the R or D next to a candidates name. They do not listen to what they say. There are alot people that will not vote R because they fear they will lose entitlements (welfare).

There was a time that politics was not pushed in schools, HS and higher, but today you find an agenda being pushed that is bad for the country.

Mecca
09-16-2008, 07:19 AM
If that was a comment to me, the reply is undoubtedly. Those are the people that look no further than the R or D next to a candidates name. They do not listen to what they say. There are alot people that will not vote R because they fear they will lose entitlements (welfare).

There was a time that politics was not pushed in schools, HS and higher, but today you find an agenda being pushed that is bad for the country.

You said Bush had nothing to do with McCain and I'm telling you he does...you made a nice little sidestep of that though.

BigChiefFan
09-16-2008, 07:50 AM
If that snake Rove admits it, then McCain must be a regular Pinocchio.