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jAZ
09-15-2008, 01:34 PM
He'll lose this election. McCain's campaign has been 100x as bad as anything Gore ever said, but McCain's "base" is only now dealing with it directly.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 01:45 PM
He'll lose this election. McCain's campaign has been 100x as bad as anything Gore ever said, but McCain's "base" is only now dealing with it directly.

Actual lies or perceived lies by the democrats?

Political typical or something considered criminal?

tiptap
09-15-2008, 01:46 PM
Just ignore the snore jaz

jAZ
09-15-2008, 02:01 PM
Actual lies or perceived lies by the democrats?

Political typical or something considered criminal?

Everything from "I invented the internet" and worse.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
Everything from "I invented the internet" and worse.

Today jaz. You know, in the present?

Where are the current lies you refer to?

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
Just ignore the snore jaz

He did, notice he didn't make a single post in response to you?

mlyonsd
09-15-2008, 03:43 PM
If the media gives "McCain is a serial liar" the same treatment they gave Gore...

He'll win both an Oscar and a Nobel.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 03:44 PM
Today jaz. You know, in the present?

Where are the current lies you refer to?

Obama didn't call Palin a pig.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:48 PM
Obama didn't call Palin a pig.

To what was he referring when he made the lipstick remark?

He left himself open for anything with that.

And, that's just what I was saying about Obama talking without a script, he sticks his foot in his mouth.

orange
09-15-2008, 03:48 PM
Obama didn't call Palin a pig.

You're right, he didn't.

Barack Obama is THE ONLY PERSON IN AMERICA so out of touch with what ordinary people are talking about that he HONESTLY DIDN'T KNOW about Palin's "lipstick on a pitbull" comment just days before.

Chiefnj2
09-15-2008, 03:49 PM
Palin is a pig. She doesn't look like a pig, but she acted like a pig grubbing for handouts and rooting around for earmarks.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 03:50 PM
To what was he referring when he made the lipstick remark?
Exactly what he said he was talking about. McCain's policies. He listed them all before making the comment.

It's a lie to say (as they do explicitly) in the commerical that Obama was talking about Palin ("Obama on Palin" is the claim IIRC).

Let's have you admit it and then we can move to the next lie.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:50 PM
Palin is a pig. She doesn't look like a pig, but she acted like a pig grubbing for handouts and rooting around for earmarks.

THERE YOU HAVE IT JAZ, DEMOCRATS/OBOTS CALL GOVERNOR PALIN A PIG.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 03:51 PM
You're right, he didn't.
McCain lied, no?

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Exactly what he said he was talking about. McCain's policies. He listed them all before making the comment.

It's a lie to say (as they do explicitly) in the commerical that Obama was talking about Palin ("Obama on Palin" is the claim IIRC).

Let's have you admit it and then we can move to the next lie.


Which part of Orange's statement did you not get?
You're right, he didn't.

Barack Obama is THE ONLY PERSON IN AMERICA so out of touch with what ordinary people are talking about that he HONESTLY DIDN'T KNOW about Palin's "lipstick on a pitbull" comment just days before.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 03:52 PM
You're right, he didn't.

Barack Obama is THE ONLY PERSON IN AMERICA so out of touch with what ordinary people are talking about that he HONESTLY DIDN'T KNOW about Palin's "lipstick on a pitbull" comment just days before.


how come all you republicans hear lipstick and automatically think "animals"

you all is some sick mofos

jAZ
09-15-2008, 03:52 PM
THERE YOU HAVE IT JAZ, DEMOCRATS/OBOTS CALL GOVERNOR PALIN A PIG.
Stop playing games and admit that McCain campaign has been caught lying when they said in a commerical that Obama called Palin a pig.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:54 PM
Stop playing games and admit that McCain campaign has been caught lying when they said in a commerical that Obama called Palin a pig.

I don't think that was a lie. He knew exactly what he was saying and to whom it was intended.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 03:54 PM
Stop playing games and admit that McCain campaign has been caught lying when they said in a commerical that Obama called Palin a pig.

they won't admit the lies

Programmer
09-15-2008, 03:55 PM
they won't admit the lies

Get away little girl, the adults are discusssing things you don't understand.

orange
09-15-2008, 03:55 PM
McCain lied, no?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 03:56 PM
I don't think that was a lie. He knew exactly what he was saying and to whom it was intended.

ok, well that fits nicely into the definition of what you wanted to hear

jAZ
09-15-2008, 03:56 PM
I don't think that was a lie. He knew exactly what he was saying and to whom it was intended.
He did, and he told everyone in that audience what he was refering to. If you actually saw the video you know that he was talking about those policies and never called her a pig.

And it's a lie to say he was calling her a pig.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 03:57 PM
Get away little girl, the adults are discusssing things you don't understand.

Are we discussing how come someone didn't abort you?

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:00 PM
He did, and he told everyone in that audience what he was refering to. If you actually saw the video you know that he was talking about those policies and never called her a pig.

And it's a lie to say he was calling her a pig.


Part of the Bush doctrine deals with putting lipstick on pigs, ask palin. She'll tell you.

ROYC75
09-15-2008, 04:02 PM
Stop playing games and admit that McCain campaign has been caught lying when they said in a commerical that Obama called Palin a pig.

Stop ignoring the fact that he didn't directly call her that, but in his comment after the RNC, he used that pig / lipstick comment , the crowd took it that way, they laughed,he laughed and the country took it as degrading her. That's it in reality, you can make a comment about something and the public / audience will take it they way it was meant to be, without saying it directly.

I mentioned at the time, I didn't feel that he did it intentionally, but the crowd ands the American people took it that way. In an election, one must choose his / her's words wisely .

Obama got his point across without, in doing so, the crowd and the public took it as a slap in her face from the previous week. It is what it is ....deal with it. Again as I have mentioned before,instead of laughing or chuckling about it afterwards, he should have said, Please don't take this as as slap
in the face to Gov. Palin ......... But he didn't . He taking the fallout from it .Just a bad decision to use that phrase so close to her comments the week before.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:05 PM
Stop ignoring the fact that he didn't directly call her that, but in his comment after the RNC, he used that pig / lipstick comment , the crowd took it that way, they laughed,he laughed and the country took it as degrading her. That's it in reality, you can make a comment about something and the public / audience will take it they way it was meant to be, without saying it directly.

I mentioned at the time, I didn't feel that he did it intentionally, but the crowd ands the American people took it that way. In an election, one must choose his / her's words wisely .

Obama got his point across without, in doing so, the crowd and the public took it as a slap in her face from the previous week. It is what it is ....deal with it. Again as I have mentioned before,instead of laughing or chuckling about it afterwards, he should have said, Please don't take this as as slap
in the face to Gov. Palin ......... But he didn't . He taking the fallout from it .Just a bad decision to use that phrase so close to her comments the week before.

I still think you all gots a pig in lipstick fetish.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:07 PM
He did, and he told everyone in that audience what he was refering to. If you actually saw the video you know that he was talking about those policies and never called her a pig.

And it's a lie to say he was calling her a pig.

In your eyes that may be, but there you have the conundrum of what is going on. Words are chosen to convey a meaning. It is the opinion of many people that Obama staged that comment to call Palin a pig. You are lying to yourself if you want to believe otherwise.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:08 PM
http://mymedia.myfoxboston.com/media01/00000/09/63/MzA5MTU2_large.jpg

bet you got this on your wall don't you programmer?

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:08 PM
I still think you all gots a pig in lipstick fetish.

We all hear that you eat pigshit sandwiches. Still have some in your teeth where you have the lipstick smeared.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:09 PM
http://mymedia.myfoxboston.com/media01/00000/09/63/MzA5MTU2_large.jpg

bet you got this on your wall don't you programmer?

Why in the world would I have your High School graduation picture on my wall?

You are as ugly as we all thought. Thanks for sharing.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:09 PM
We all hear that you eat pigshit sandwiches. Still have some in your teeth where you have the lipstick smeared.

well put

makes no sense, but well put

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:10 PM
Why in the world would I have your High School graduation picture on my wall?

You are as ugly as we all thought. Thanks for sharing.

LOL, you got nothing

btw.....

this is palins high school graduation picture

LOLOLOLOL

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:12 PM
LOL, you got nothing

btw.....

this is palins high school graduation picture

LOLOLOLOL

Too late, you have been identified.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:13 PM
Too late, you have been identified.

yes as the more intelligent of the two

LOLOLOLOL

ROYC75
09-15-2008, 04:15 PM
He did, and he told everyone in that audience what he was refering to. If you actually saw the video you know that he was talking about those policies and never called her a pig.

And it's a lie to say he was calling her a pig.

Again, it was bad timing to use that comment. Plus he didn't mention that it wasn't meant to Palin when the crowd erupted, they knew the hidden message on it.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:16 PM
Didn't we already establish that this is an age old saying? That one of McCains advisors (or someone on staff), wrote a book with the saying as the title? That McCAin himself said those exact words while talking about Hillarys healthplan and the audience laughed as well? Didn't we see the video and read the text of Obama talking about McCains plan for "change" and his policies then make the lipstick remark?

Why in the world are we debating this bullshit again?:rolleyes:

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:16 PM
... he didn't directly call her that...

I mentioned at the time, I didn't feel that he did it intentionally
You are correct, in fact he specifically said:
"John McCain says he's about change, too," Obama said. "And so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out, George Bush! Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy, and Karl Rove-style politics, we're really going to shake things up in Washington.'"

"That's not change," Obama said. "That's just calling something the same thing something different. But you know, you can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing."

He is saying quite explicitly that "John McCain('s) ... whole angle" (of claiming "change" broadly but not changing on most every major policy position listed) is putting "change" lipstick on the same policy pig that is the failure of the last 8 years.


Now I think we can all agree that such a statement did as TC put it...
He left himself open for anything with that.
Which is true, he left himself open to lies by the McCain camp including the commerical and a statement by Gov. Swift who lied directly on bahalf of the campaign by saying "Calling a very prominent female governor of one of our states a ‘pig’... ".

Obama left himself open to McCain's lies being effective, but they are lies.

Which is of couse the subject of this thread.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:18 PM
Didn't we already establish that this is an age old saying? That one of McCains advisors (or someone on staff), wrote a book with the saying as the title? That McCAin himself said those exact words while talking about Hillarys healthplan and the audience laughed as well? Didn't we see the video and read the text of Obama talking about McCains plan for "change" and his policies then make the lipstick remark?

Why in the world are we debating this bullshit again?:rolleyes:

Because admitting that McCain lied about this is the first step in admitting to many other lies, which then puts into context how morrally corrupt McCain has chosen to become in order to win.

That's hard to admit.

ROYC75
09-15-2008, 04:19 PM
You are correct, in fact he specifically said:
"John McCain says he's about change, too," Obama said. "And so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out, George Bush! Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy, and Karl Rove-style politics, we're really going to shake things up in Washington.'"

"That's not change," Obama said. "That's just calling something the same thing something different. But you know, you can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing."

He is saying quite explicitly that "John McCain('s) ... whole angle" (of claiming "change" broadly but not changing on most every major policy position listed) is putting "change" lipstick on the same policy pig that is the failure of the last 8 years.


Now I think we can all agree that such a statement did as TC put it...

Which is true, he left himself open to lies by the McCain camp including the commerical and a statement by Gov. Swift who lied directly on bahalf of the campaign by saying "Calling a very prominent female governor of one of our states a ‘pig’... ".

Obama left himself open to McCain's lies being effective, but they are lies.

Which is of couse the subject of this thread.

Try this Again, it was bad timing to use that comment. Plus he didn't mention that it wasn't meant to Palin when the crowd erupted, they knew the hidden message on it.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:20 PM
You are correct, in fact he specifically said:
"John McCain says he's about change, too," Obama said. "And so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out, George Bush! Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy, and Karl Rove-style politics, we're really going to shake things up in Washington.'"

"That's not change," Obama said. "That's just calling something the same thing something different. But you know, you can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing."
He is saying quite explicitly that "John McCain('s) ... whole angle" (of claiming "change" broadly but not changing on most every major policy position listed) is putting "change" lipstick on the same policy pig that is the failure of the last 8 years.


Now I think we can all agree that such a statement did as TC put it...

Which is true, he left himself open to lies by the McCain camp including the commerical and a statement by Gov. Swift who lied directly on bahalf of the campaign by saying "Calling a very prominent female governor of one of our states a ‘pig’... ".

Obama left himself open to McCain's lies being effective, but they are lies.

Which is of couse the subject of this thread.

And McCain has left himself open to Obama's lies being effective, but they are lies.

It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Again, if you believe that Obama did not actually work that in as a shot, then believe it. The rest of the world knows better and I have a suspicion that you do as well but are unwilling to bend.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:20 PM
Because admitting that McCain lied about this is the first step in admitting to many other lies, which then puts into context how morrally corrupt McCain has chosen to become in order to win.

That's hard to admit.

It is amazing that they wont admit it. Its so blatant. Mind boggling.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:20 PM
It is the opinion of many people that (removed for clarity)... . You are lying to yourself if you want to believe otherwise.
Agreed, many people hold that opinion because politically it works for McCain. But it's still in fact a lie.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:21 PM
Didn't we already establish that this is an age old saying? That one of McCains advisors (or someone on staff), wrote a book with the saying as the title? That McCAin himself said those exact words while talking about Hillarys healthplan and the audience laughed as well? Didn't we see the video and read the text of Obama talking about McCains plan for "change" and his policies then make the lipstick remark?

Why in the world are we debating this bullshit again?:rolleyes:

Because jaz has a hardon for McCain and wants everyone to agree with him. It's a character flaw in jaz that enables him to hate conservative ideals.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:22 PM
Try this Again, it was bad timing to use that comment. Plus he didn't mention that it wasn't meant to Palin when the crowd erupted, they knew the hidden message on it.

McCain didn't admit that his "lipstick" comment wasnt againt Hillary when the crowd laughed. Should he of said something to the effect that it wasnt meant as a direct hit against HC because the crowd laughed?

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:23 PM
Agreed, many people hold that opinion because politically it works for McCain. But it's still in fact a lie.

Your belief that Obama did not intentionally use the phrase as a jab at Palin is a lie. I'm sure you will never come off your golden throne to admit you are wrong, but so be it.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:24 PM
And McCain has left himself open to Obama's lies being effective, but they are lies.

It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Again, if you believe that Obama did not actually work that in as a shot, then believe it. The rest of the world knows better and I have a suspicion that you do as well but are unwilling to bend.
So setting aside your feelings about Obama, will you now admit that this is but one example of a McCain lie. And for the record, your willingness to make this admission would in no way prevent you from blaming Obama for whatever you want.

I'm just trying to for clarity focus on the point that you asked about before, and close the loop on this question of yours: "Where are the current lies you refer to?"

This is one of them. Agreed?

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:26 PM
Because jaz has a hardon for McCain and wants everyone to agree with him. It's a character flaw in jaz that enables him to hate conservative ideals.

But it is a lie. The context of the statement has nothing to do with Palin. It was about JM and his policies. Palin doesnt own the "lipstick on a pig" saying all of the sudden becasue she used the word "lipstick" and is a woman. Seriously. This arguement about Obama calling her a pig is getting ridicluous.

Now if he said something about some crazy bitch with a gun....

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:26 PM
So setting aside your feelings about Obama, will you now admit that this is but one example of a McCain lie. And for the record, your willingness to make this admission would in no way prevent you from blaming Obama for whatever you want.

I'm just trying to for clarity focus on the point that you asked about before, and close the loop on this question of yours: "Where are the current lies you refer to?"

This is one of them. Agreed?

No, because Obama knew exactly what he was saying when the reference was made.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:28 PM
No, because Obama knew exactly what he was saying when the reference was made.

proof please?

otherwise quit talking out your ass

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:28 PM
But it is a lie. The context of the statement has nothing to do with Palin. It was about JM and his policies. Palin doesnt own the "lipstick on a pig" saying all of the sudden becasue she used the word "lipstick" and is a woman. Seriously. This arguement about Obama calling her a pig is getting ridicluous.

Now if he said something about some crazy bitch with a gun....

You can't go there ...

Obama knew exactly what he was doing. A smart man would not have gone that direction.

Unless you are all saying that he wasn't smart enough to tie the two comments together.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:28 PM
No, because Obama knew exactly what he was saying when the reference was made.
Yes, he was clear about that.

As we pointed out directly...

"That" = "John McCain('s)... angle".

Right?

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:29 PM
You can't go there ...

Obama knew exactly what he was doing. A smart man would not have gone that direction.

Unless you are all saying that he wasn't smart enough to tie the two comments together.


really?

It got tied together the moment the right thought of it. They need a deflection and reached quite a bit for this one.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 04:31 PM
...it was bad timing to use that comment...
True, but bad timing isn't the same as calling her a pig. It's leaving yourself open to McCain saying (without merit) that you called her a pig.

Correct?

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:31 PM
You can't go there ...

Obama knew exactly what he was doing. A smart man would not have gone that direction.

Unless you are all saying that he wasn't smart enough to tie the two comments together.

He was using an age old saying. One that is used in politics all the time. Just because Palin used the words "lipstick" in a speech, doesnt mean she has the trademark on the word and everytime you use it, you're talking about her. Thats ridiculous. In the grand scheme of things, shes 2 weeks old and the saying is ages old. Yes, he knew what he was saying. He was saying McCain is the same old shit. Thats what he was saying.

Carlota69
09-15-2008, 04:33 PM
True, but bad timing isn't the same as calling her a pig. It's leaving yourself open to McCain saying (without merit) that you called her a pig.

Correct?

Yep. the Mccain camp jumped on something, knowing their base would buy this shit hook line and sinker....it is a lie, regardless of timing.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Yep. the Mccain camp jumped on something, knowing their base would buy this shit hook line and sinker....it is a lie, regardless of timing.

and it was a brilliant deflection

orange
09-15-2008, 04:38 PM
I'll echo something Carlota69 said above - I'm amazed you're still talking about this. If the "lipstick on a pig" thing is Obama's big claim that McCain is the lyin' Devil, then this whole new campaign theme will be rightfully laughed off.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 04:51 PM
He was using an age old saying. One that is used in politics all the time. Just because Palin used the words "lipstick" in a speech, doesnt mean she has the trademark on the word and everytime you use it, you're talking about her. Thats ridiculous. In the grand scheme of things, shes 2 weeks old and the saying is ages old. Yes, he knew what he was saying. He was saying McCain is the same old shit. Thats what he was saying.

Lipstick or was it lipstick on a pitbull?

I see the libs just have to back each other up. The amusing find will be if Obama is elected he will stab you all in the back as he will all Americans.

orange
09-15-2008, 04:58 PM
Lipstick or was it lipstick on a pitbull?

I see the libs just have to back each other up. The amusing find will be if Obama is elected he will stab you all in the back as he will all Americans.

"What's the difference between a Hockey Mom and a pitbull? Lipstick."

As some (liberal) columnist wrote, with that line Palin owned the patent on "lipstick" for this campaign - and Obama and everyone else knows it.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 06:29 PM
I'll echo something Carlota69 said above - I'm amazed you're still talking about this.
Why TC asked for an example and I gave it? I'm rather amazed that you would be amazed. Discussing the "controversy" is something that Republicans like to do when the facts are stacked against them. Hence the dozens of posts refusing to directly admit that this was just one example of a lie.

There are others, just one example.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 06:32 PM
"What's the difference between a Hockey Mom and a pitbull? Lipstick."

As some (liberal) columnist wrote, with that line Palin owned the patent on "lipstick" for this campaign - and Obama and everyone else knows it.

Still doesn't make it anything but a lie.

I guess the ultimate point of this thread (unintended as it might have been) is that no matter the facts, McCain's supporters just aren't ever going to admit to his lying, no matter the facts of the matter.

It's really not about reality for them, it's about ideology (a failed one at that).

Programmer
09-15-2008, 06:48 PM
Still doesn't make it anything but a lie.

I guess the ultimate point of this thread (unintended as it might have been) is that no matter the facts, McCain's supporters just aren't ever going to admit to his lying, no matter the facts of the matter.

It's really not about reality for them, it's about ideology (a failed one at that).When are you going to admit that Obama is lying?

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 06:56 PM
"What's the difference between a Hockey Mom and a pitbull? Lipstick."

As some (liberal) columnist wrote, with that line Palin owned the patent on "lipstick" for this campaign - and Obama and everyone else knows it.

that's the silliest thing I've ever heard

orange
09-15-2008, 07:03 PM
that's the silliest thing I've ever heard


Oh really?

A couple quotes from around the board:

NewPhin - This just in: McCain camp unfurls new campaign, "Change We Want!"

I love how the Cons on here are making fun of Obama's change slogan when their candidate has done everything he can to steal it for himself. You guys are hilarious.


Ultra Peanut - Yes, that's why he's running headlong into the CHANGE LOOK EVERYONE I CAN DO CHANGE TOO!!!! bus.


McCain mentions the word "change" and Obamatrons immediately accuse him of co-opting it from Obama. Does Obama own the word "Change?"


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an illustration that you people KNOW IMPLICITLY that Obama was referring to Palin - and you're in denial because that's what his campaign is telling you to say.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 07:10 PM
Oh really?

A couple quotes from around the board:

NewPhin - This just in: McCain camp unfurls new campaign, "Change We Want!"

I love how the Cons on here are making fun of Obama's change slogan when their candidate has done everything he can to steal it for himself. You guys are hilarious.



Ultra Peanut - Yes, that's why he's running headlong into the CHANGE LOOK EVERYONE I CAN DO CHANGE TOO!!!! bus.


McCain mentions the word "change" and Obamatrons immediately accuse him of co-opting it from Obama. Does Obama own the word "Change?"


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an illustration that you people KNOW IMPLICITLY that Obama was referring to Palin - and you're in denial because that's what his campaign is telling you to say.



So his platform is based on lipstick. Because I believe their issues with that has not to do with the term but the fact he actual took his experience platform shelfed it and came out with his own change theme.

orange
09-15-2008, 07:14 PM
Let's try to get back to the original topic, here. What are these "lies" that are going to be McCain's undoing? jAZ won't answer - beyond the ridiculous 'lipstick' claim that I don't even see mentioned anywhere else anymore.

Does he - or YOU - really think that's going to cost McCain even one vote?

jAZ
09-15-2008, 07:14 PM
jAZ won't answer
What are you talking about?

orange
09-15-2008, 07:16 PM
If the media gives "McCain is a serial liar" the same treatment they gave Gore...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He'll lose this election. McCain's campaign has been 100x as bad as anything Gore ever said, but McCain's "base" is only now dealing with it directly.

The only example of a "lie" you've mentioned here is 'Obama didn't really call Palin a pig.'

jAZ
09-15-2008, 07:17 PM
If the media gives "McCain is a serial liar" the same treatment they gave Gore...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He'll lose this election. McCain's campaign has been 100x as bad as anything Gore ever said, but McCain's "base" is only now dealing with it directly.

Where do you get "jAZ won't answer"?

orange
09-15-2008, 07:21 PM
Post #5: Today jaz. You know, in the present?

Where are the current lies you refer to?


Post #8: Obama didn't call Palin a pig.


Post #58: I'll echo something Carlota69 said above - I'm amazed you're still talking about this. If the "lipstick on a pig" thing is Obama's big claim that McCain is the lyin' Devil, then this whole new campaign theme will be rightfully laughed off.


Post #61: Why TC asked for an example and I gave it? I'm rather amazed that you would be amazed. Discussing the "controversy" is something that Republicans like to do when the facts are stacked against them. Hence the dozens of posts refusing to directly admit that this was just one example of a lie.

There are others, just one example.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 07:49 PM
Post #5:


Post #8:


Post #58:


Post #61:
You seem to be caught in a McCain-esque lie here.

I never said I won't list them. Your inability to point to such a post just proves my point 100%. Thanks!

It's like lying is part and parcel to being a Republican.

Programmer
09-15-2008, 07:53 PM
You seem to be caught in a McCain-esque lie here.

I never said I won't list them. Your inability to point to such a post just proves my point 100%. Thanks!

It's like lying is part and parcel to being a Republican.


Let's start this over. You claim that McCain is a "serial liar".

You have provided one case that you feel was a lie. I'm waiting for the multitude of lies that he must be telling to be a "serial liar" as you claim.

patteeu
09-15-2008, 07:53 PM
Why TC asked for an example and I gave it? I'm rather amazed that you would be amazed. Discussing the "controversy" is something that Republicans like to do when the facts are stacked against them. Hence the dozens of posts refusing to directly admit that this was just one example of a lie.

There are others, just one example.

This is like a "Rove to be indicted in 2 weeks" thread if that's the best example of a McCain "lie" you can come up with. Hell, Obama trumped that with his dishonest smear about McCain wanting a 100 year war in Iraq.

Logical
09-15-2008, 09:56 PM
If anyone does not think McCain is a serial liar watch these.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ioy90nF2anI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GEtZlR3zp4c&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 10:59 PM
If anyone does not think McCain is a serial liar watch these.

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ioy90nF2anI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GEtZlR3zp4c&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

thread over, good post

jAZ
09-15-2008, 11:06 PM
Let's start this over. You claim that McCain is a "serial liar".

You have provided one case that you feel was a lie. I'm waiting for the multitude of lies that he must be telling to be a "serial liar" as you claim.

Ok. Give me a few minutes.

jAZ
09-15-2008, 11:10 PM
Ok. Give me a few minutes.

Correction: Give Jim's videos a few minutes.

Logical
09-15-2008, 11:11 PM
thread over, good postThanks, suddenly videos against McCain's stupidity are overflowing on YouTube.

J Diddy
09-15-2008, 11:16 PM
Thanks, suddenly videos against McCain's stupidity are overflowing on YouTube.

I'm anxious to hear some right wing spins on this.

Logical
09-16-2008, 01:45 AM
Try the video at this link, it is the newest ad. I like it. By the way it takes a while to load so be patient.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1185304443/bctid1786848892

RINGLEADER
09-16-2008, 02:21 AM
He'll lose this election. McCain's campaign has been 100x as bad as anything Gore ever said, but McCain's "base" is only now dealing with it directly.

Please jAZ, both sides do it. And they do it because the majority of Americans respond to it. For every McCain wrong you point to I can show you Obama clipping McCain quotes about his 100 year war or that he said social security is a disgrace. Big deal. Obama should quit whining and keep fighting.

orange
09-16-2008, 02:45 AM
I'm anxious to hear some right wing spins on this.

Spin? Hardly necessary. Internet video makers like therealmccain.com and Brave New PAC have been around for months; their stuff is already factored into the current polls - you know, the ones with McCain taking the lead and a dangerous downward tack for Obama (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ NOTE especially the Super Tracker over to the right).

The new commercials from Obama ARE different, though. Whether they will be helpful though is an open question. Here's one take (Mickey Kaus):

The current lib blog-MSM-campaign tack--getting outraged by McCain's "lies"--is a total loser strategy. Why?

a) MSM outrage doesn't sway voters anymore. It didn't even back in 1988, when the press tried to make a stink about George H.W. Bush's use of "flag factories," etc. After this year's failed MSM Palin assault, it certainly won't work;

b) When Dems get outraged at unfairness they look weak. How can they stand up to Putin if they start whining when confronted with Steve Schmidt? McCain's camp can fake umbrage all it wants--the latest is that an Atlantic photographer took some nasty photos that the mag didn't run!--and nobody will accuse MCain of being weak. That's so unfair. A double standard. Dems can learn to live with it or complain about the unfairness for another 4 years. Their choice.

c) It's almost always impossible to prove that a Republican attack is a 100% lie. Either there's a germ of truth (Kerry did hype his wartime heroism at least a bit) or the truth is indeterminate (i.e., there's no way of knowing what Obama meant by "lipstick"--just because he and McCain used the word earlier doesn't mean he didn't think using it now, after Palin's speech, didn't add a witty resonance).

d) Lecturing the public on what's 'true" and what's a "lie" (when the truth isn't 100% clear) plays into some of the worst stereotypes about liberals--that they are preachy know-it-alls hiding their political motives behind a veneer of objectivity and respectability.

e) Inevitably the people being outraged on Obama's behalf will phrase their arguments in ways well-designed to appeal to their friends--and turn off the unconverted. ('This is just what they did to John Kerry and Michael Dukakis!' As if the public yearns for the lost Kerry and Dukakis Presidencies. 'Today's kindergarteners need some sex education. Just because Republicans are old fashioned ...' etc. Or 'These are Karl Rove tactics,' which signifies little to non-Dem voters except a partisan rancor they'd like to put behind them.)

Lots of people like bad Disney movies, and don't like the kind of people who sneer at bad Disney movies.
http://www.slate.com/id/2199595/

And here's another (Jennifer Rubin):

Mickey Kaus posits: “The current lib blog-MSM-campaign tack–getting outraged by McCain’s “lies”–is a total loser strategy.” (Yes, the three hyphenated allies are joined at the hip but you already knew that.) I think he’s right that it makes them all look weak, whiny and in cahoots with one another.

But there is a good reason to do it. They are preparing their excuses for defeat. No matter how foolhardy the Democratic primary voters in selecting a high risk candidate, no matter how bizarre the policy choices of that candidate, no matter how outlandishly wrong the conventional press wisdom and no matter how inept the campaign operation there is a cure-all excuse: McCain lied, our hopes died.

I am not saying Barack Obama is going to lose; I am saying the Obama Gang of Three (i.e. the mind-melded bloggers/MSM/campaign operation) now thinks that is a distinct possibility. So how to explain how they all messed up? When in doubt, revive the Lee Atwater/Karl Rove/Gore v. Bush/Swiftboat rationale which is “It is never our fault.”

The problem, of course, is that doesn’t work if the aim is to win elections. In fact the opposite occurs: the cures (e.g. violent partisan counterpunches, media whining) usually turn off key Independent voters. But if the aim is to save face with your peer groups (e.g. fellow journalists, campaign donors, political operatives) who want to know what the heck went wrong, it works as well as anything.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/30431

I particularly like Rubin's take because she makes the same point I have made on other blogs for weeks (maybe here, too) - stuff that garners thunderous applause on the left-wing blogs doesn't do so well out in the mainstream. MoveOn.Org successfully made themselves a pariah with their "General Betray Us" idiocy; and if that didn't serve as enough of an example, you need to look back no farther than the last couple of weeks to see how well the ridiculous smearing of Sarah Palin has done for Obama.

Going out of the way to whip up the HuffingtonPost/Daily Kos/Democratic Underground demographic in my mind is a sure way to lose the election.

As for the new "liar" ads - you know they don't go out in a vacuum. McCain will respond and to think his campaign's response - by people who KNOW how to win elections - will be as clutzy as the left likes to paint everybody else is foolishly naive.

Logical
09-16-2008, 03:50 AM
Wow orange that was the best you could do, so lame blogs. I suppose people should not begin fighting it out blog to blog. Tomorrow in response we will get the Daily Kos Blog.

orange
09-16-2008, 04:01 AM
No, the BEST I could do was that fivethirtyeight link: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

As they say in sports - "SCOREBOARD"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two weeks ago I posted this answer to J Diddy about Obama:

Well, I think he's probably going to win (barely), so I'll just have to hope I'm wrong about him.

Since then, I've watched in amazement as the Democrats have lurched inexorably toward the impossible - losing to a Republican candidate riding the coattails of the most unpopular President in history.

Of course, they ARE professionals!

Programmer
09-16-2008, 06:27 AM
Thanks, suddenly videos against McCain's stupidity are overflowing on YouTube.


So YouTube videos are not edited? It seems the claims of Obama's lapses were called edited by the LWNJ's

Alphaman
09-16-2008, 07:12 AM
I find this thread to be ridiculous. I've noticed throughout this election cycle that both those who support McCain and those who support Obama are unwilling to admit when their candidate is wrong on an issue or screws up. They've both made mistakes. I still support Obama, but he's made mistakes and there are things about some of his policies that scare me.

To the original conversation on this thread....McCain has outright lied in this election. He started off doing the usual distortions, but now he's flat out lied. Here are a few:

1) Obama called Palin a pig
2) Obama wanted to teach kindergartners about sex before they could read
3) Palin didn't take earmarks as governor
4) Obama will raise taxes on everybody.

Combine that to his admitted lying in 2000 on the South Carolina confederate flag issue and the "serial liar" tag becomes more plausible.

Independent reviewers are now calling him on the lies. Carl Rove has said that McCain has lied....CARL ROVE!!!!

Let's stay on point, the "reformer" needs reformation. Can he recover from this character flaw. Possibly. However, Obama should aggressively paint him as a liar.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 07:38 AM
I find this thread to be ridiculous. I've noticed throughout this election cycle that both those who support McCain and those who support Obama are unwilling to admit when their candidate is wrong on an issue or screws up. They've both made mistakes. I still support Obama, but he's made mistakes and there are things about some of his policies that scare me.

To the original conversation on this thread....McCain has outright lied in this election. He started off doing the usual distortions, but now he's flat out lied. Here are a few:

1) Obama called Palin a pig
2) Obama wanted to teach kindergartners about sex before they could read
3) Palin didn't take earmarks as governor
4) Obama will raise taxes on everybody.

Combine that to his admitted lying in 2000 on the South Carolina confederate flag issue and the "serial liar" tag becomes more plausible.

Independent reviewers are now calling him on the lies. Carl Rove has said that McCain has lied....CARL ROVE!!!!

Let's stay on point, the "reformer" needs reformation. Can he recover from this character flaw. Possibly. However, Obama should aggressively paint him as a liar.

I find your comments to be colored by your preference.

You claim that both are less than what we want but throw the darts at McCain only.

Nice bipartisan commentary. Your beliefs are no different than jaz's.

1. Yeah, right. He knew what he was saying
2. Did you read the curriculum that was proposed?
3. What does that have to do with anything. As a governor they all want what they can get for their state. You assume that an earmark for a special project goes directly to the governor, not actually the case.
4. You honestly believe that all of the programs he wants to bring into office will not result in increased taxes for everyone? The last time we heard a democrat say those very words "I will not raise taxes on the poor" he did. The last time we heard a republican say that we would not raise taxes on the poor, he did as well.

The election is not about taxes, we will always be taxed. This election is more about the morality of what each wants to do. IMO it is wrong to start teaching sex education to those in grades K-5. All that will do is to encourage them to experiment at a younger age.

This election is all about who is best suited to lead this nation with no alternative motives. I don't believe McCain has more than the welfare of the United States as a whole. I do believe there is a dark side to Obama that will be revealed that will do mor harm to the country than any president in the country's history.

Logical
09-16-2008, 08:20 AM
No, the BEST I could do was that fivethirtyeight link: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

As they say in sports - "SCOREBOARD"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...Please, you are using a site that posts electoral vote count 100% committed at this point, bidge you fuggin nuts if you think I will believe that. If you want to use Real Clear Politic and call scoreboard temporarily, go for it.

BigChiefFan
09-16-2008, 08:22 AM
McCain's nose is growing longer.

patteeu
09-16-2008, 08:59 AM
I find this thread to be ridiculous. I've noticed throughout this election cycle that both those who support McCain and those who support Obama are unwilling to admit when their candidate is wrong on an issue or screws up. They've both made mistakes. I still support Obama, but he's made mistakes and there are things about some of his policies that scare me.

To the original conversation on this thread....McCain has outright lied in this election. He started off doing the usual distortions, but now he's flat out lied. Here are a few:

1) Obama called Palin a pig
2) Obama wanted to teach kindergartners about sex before they could read
3) Palin didn't take earmarks as governor
4) Obama will raise taxes on everybody.

Combine that to his admitted lying in 2000 on the South Carolina confederate flag issue and the "serial liar" tag becomes more plausible.

Independent reviewers are now calling him on the lies. Carl Rove has said that McCain has lied....CARL ROVE!!!!

Let's stay on point, the "reformer" needs reformation. Can he recover from this character flaw. Possibly. However, Obama should aggressively paint him as a liar.

I haven't seen these supposedly damning videos that someone posted earlier, but I'd be shocked if a careful examination of the things that McCain has said would support all 4 of the examples you gave. If anyone has links to actual quotes, I'd love to check them out.

Alphaman
09-16-2008, 12:19 PM
I find your comments to be colored by your preference.

You claim that both are less than what we want but throw the darts at McCain only.

Nice bipartisan commentary. Your beliefs are no different than jaz's.

1. Yeah, right. He knew what he was saying
2. Did you read the curriculum that was proposed?
3. What does that have to do with anything. As a governor they all want what they can get for their state. You assume that an earmark for a special project goes directly to the governor, not actually the case.
4. You honestly believe that all of the programs he wants to bring into office will not result in increased taxes for everyone? The last time we heard a democrat say those very words "I will not raise taxes on the poor" he did. The last time we heard a republican say that we would not raise taxes on the poor, he did as well.

The election is not about taxes, we will always be taxed. This election is more about the morality of what each wants to do. IMO it is wrong to start teaching sex education to those in grades K-5. All that will do is to encourage them to experiment at a younger age.

This election is all about who is best suited to lead this nation with no alternative motives. I don't believe McCain has more than the welfare of the United States as a whole. I do believe there is a dark side to Obama that will be revealed that will do mor harm to the country than any president in the country's history.


1) I wasn't attempting bipartisan commentary. I was trying to get back to the original topic of this thread, despite the attempts to derail it.

2) He never called her a pig. Many independent sources have said so. In fact, in the analogy, she would be the lipstick.

3) First he didn't propose the legislation (another lie by McCain) he voted for it. Second, it would have made children aware of sexual predators...it was for their protection. They would not have received sex education. Further, the bill provided for the parents to opt out of the teaching (which is not a normal liberal viewpoint).

4) It's not a matter of the earmarks themselves. If the money is available, I'm all for governors requesting and accessing the money to help their states. But the problem with the statement he made on the View "She didn't accept earmarks as governor" is two-fold. First it is an outright lie...she did and she took alot of them. In fact, on the infamous "bridge to nowhere" she didn't say "thanks but no thanks". She said we won't do the bridge, but we'll keep the money and use it for something else. Second, it is a lie to run on the platform that she is a reformer who will cut out these earmarks when she was governor of the state that requested the most earmarks per capita in the US. Again, I don't have a problem with the requesting of available funds, just don't tell me you are against it when you have your hand in the jar.

5) All we can go on right now is the plan presented by both candidates. Once again, independent (non-partisan) review has said that Obama's plan will reduce taxes on the middle income while McCain's will reduce taxes for the upper income. For McCain to represent otherwise is a lie. If he wants to debate Obama or question him on if he'll really do so, that is one thing. To lie about what the plan says is a whole different thing.


As for the election, we all have our decision making process. For me this election comes down to leadership and the intelligence to handle the complex issues facing our nation. I see those qualities in Obama and I don't see them in McCain. For others, the decision process will be very different.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 02:37 PM
As for the election, we all have our decision making process. For me this election comes down to leadership and the intelligence to handle the complex issues facing our nation. I see those qualities in Obama and I don't see them in McCain. For others, the decision process will be very different.

Obama has no leadership, he is a prom queen. Being a popular person does not make you a leader. He is no leader and if elected you will quickly realize that. I question his intelligence, you see him as someone that can handle complex issues, I see him as a fish out of water when it comes to the complexity of what it takes to lead a nation. I do see leadership and experience in McCain.

Alphaman
09-16-2008, 03:48 PM
Obama has no leadership, he is a prom queen. Being a popular person does not make you a leader. He is no leader and if elected you will quickly realize that. I question his intelligence, you see him as someone that can handle complex issues, I see him as a fish out of water when it comes to the complexity of what it takes to lead a nation. I do see leadership and experience in McCain.

The beauty of America is that we can agree to disagree. You and I obviously have different perspectives on Obama and McCain. I would hope that we could view issues such as McCain's dishonesty or Obama's likely choices for Supreme Court Justices (my biggest concern with him) without retreating to "he's my guy so I've got to dismiss all judgement to support him".

Programmer
09-16-2008, 03:52 PM
The beauty of America is that we can agree to disagree. You and I obviously have different perspectives on Obama and McCain. I would hope that we could view issues such as McCain's dishonesty or Obama's likely choices for Supreme Court Justices (my biggest concern with him) without retreating to "he's my guy so I've got to dismiss all judgement to support him".

We do disagree, but it isn't just the two of us. Virtually every republican here disagrees with the democrats here.

Again, the dishonesty issue is one that does not rest on one candidate alone. All of the dishonesty has been described and is mostly perception by those on Obama's side. Same thing on the reverse.

I think Obama will harm America far more than McCain or Palin.

Alphaman
09-16-2008, 03:56 PM
We do disagree, but it isn't just the two of us. Virtually every republican here disagrees with the democrats here.

Again, the dishonesty issue is one that does not rest on one candidate alone. All of the dishonesty has been described and is mostly perception by those on Obama's side. Same thing on the reverse.

I think Obama will harm America far more than McCain or Palin.

I've seen the discourse on here between Dems and Repubs and it is sickening. Too much I'll say whatever to stick up for my party or to attack the other guy. There are some knowledgeable, intelligent people on both sides here who could have really good dialogue. Too much attempt at spin.

Again, on your last sentence we disagree. I think Obama will very good for American and McCain will be disastrous.

I will agree that there is distortion in every Presidential campaign, however, as Carl Rove pointed out, McCain has crossed the line from normal distortion to outright lies.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 04:23 PM
I've seen the discourse on here between Dems and Repubs and it is sickening. Too much I'll say whatever to stick up for my party or to attack the other guy. There are some knowledgeable, intelligent people on both sides here who could have really good dialogue. Too much attempt at spin.

Again, on your last sentence we disagree. I think Obama will very good for American and McCain will be disastrous.

I will agree that there is distortion in every Presidential campaign, however, as Carl Rove pointed out, McCain has crossed the line from normal distortion to outright lies.

Rove, I believe, has said that because McCain is far more liberal than any republican we could get into office. Rove has his panties in a knot because McCain is not playing by the rules according to Rove. Think about it, McCain wants to cross party lines in setting up his administration. Do you think the collective conservative movement really wanted to hear that?

Alphaman
09-16-2008, 05:20 PM
Rove, I believe, has said that because McCain is far more liberal than any republican we could get into office. Rove has his panties in a knot because McCain is not playing by the rules according to Rove. Think about it, McCain wants to cross party lines in setting up his administration. Do you think the collective conservative movement really wanted to hear that?

Probably not, but Rove definitely wants McCain to win over Obama. In fact, we've recently found out that Rove is working in McCain's campaign.

Programmer
09-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Probably not, but Rove definitely wants McCain to win over Obama. In fact, we've recently found out that Rove is working in McCain's campaign.

Any republican that doesnt' want that is probably due for a party change.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 06:33 AM
Obama didn't call Palin a pig.

Obama didn't call Palin a pig in the same way that George W. Bush didn't ever say that Saddam had any responsibility for 9/11. I'm OK with saying that McCain's wrong on this one just like you and the rest of the yahoos have been wrong on that one. The only difference is that in this case we're talking about something that is trivial.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 06:41 AM
Didn't we already establish that this is an age old saying? That one of McCains advisors (or someone on staff), wrote a book with the saying as the title? That McCAin himself said those exact words while talking about Hillarys healthplan and the audience laughed as well? Didn't we see the video and read the text of Obama talking about McCains plan for "change" and his policies then make the lipstick remark?

Why in the world are we debating this bullshit again?:rolleyes:

McCain saying the same words long ago has absolutely nothing to do with this. Most people understand that this is a common expression. It's just not common enough that you'd expect it to come up in a high profile political speech just days after Sarah Palin made big news with a similar comment.

Instead of being explicit and falsely claiming that Obama called Palin a pig, McCain's camp should have asked the question (was Obama calling Palin a pig in that speech?) and then he should have suggested that that kind of cheap shot is immature and not the kind of thing that promotes the effective debate of ideas. In that way, McCain wouldn't be lying but he would be inviting others to draw their own conclusions while suggesting a reaction should they agree that the lipstick comment was too coincidental to be unrelated to Palin's remark (along with the "coincidence" that the comment was paired with a comment about wrapping old fish just as Palin is paired with an "old fish" herself).

patteeu
09-17-2008, 06:47 AM
It is amazing that they wont admit it. Its so blatant. Mind boggling.

How many Obama supporters have admitted the blatant (and IMO, much more significant) lie told by Obama about McCain wanting to fight a 100 year war in Iraq?

Programmer
09-17-2008, 07:42 AM
Obama didn't call Palin a pig in the same way that George W. Bush didn't ever say that Saddam had any responsibility for 9/11. I'm OK with saying that McCain's wrong on this one just like you and the rest of the yahoos have been wrong on that one. The only difference is that in this case we're talking about something that is trivial.

Agreed that it is trivial, but it was also a reference the he used as a direct response to the lipstick on a pitbull. But why should we point out what the libs already know but are unwilling to admit.

Infidel Goat
09-17-2008, 08:08 AM
http://www.mobilewhack.com/blackberry_8705-2.jpg

Welcome to Al Gore's world...

patteeu
09-17-2008, 08:37 AM
I've seen the discourse on here between Dems and Repubs and it is sickening. Too much I'll say whatever to stick up for my party or to attack the other guy. There are some knowledgeable, intelligent people on both sides here who could have really good dialogue. Too much attempt at spin.

Again, on your last sentence we disagree. I think Obama will very good for American and McCain will be disastrous.

I will agree that there is distortion in every Presidential campaign, however, as Carl Rove pointed out, McCain has crossed the line from normal distortion to outright lies.

Just to provide a more complete, spin-free picture, I'd point out that Obama crossed that same line months ago with his "100 years" smear.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 08:41 AM
Probably not, but Rove definitely wants McCain to win over Obama. In fact, we've recently found out that Rove is working in McCain's campaign.

We have? Forgive me if I missed it in my absence, but do you have a link? Because I literally just finished reading an article in which Karl Rove denies having any formal role in McCain's campaign.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 08:41 AM
You seem to be caught in a McCain-esque lie here.

I never said I won't list them. Your inability to point to such a post just proves my point 100%. Thanks!

It's like lying is part and parcel to being a Republican.

If you don't mind, could you describe this extraordinary list of lies that warrants the "McCain is a serial liar" treatment for those of us who can't youtube?

Friendo
09-17-2008, 08:45 AM
How many Obama supporters have admitted that Obama stretched about McCain wanting to fight a 100 year war in Iraq?

fyp--I do!

patteeu
09-17-2008, 09:56 AM
fyp--I do!

OK, but it was every bit as much a lie as this McCain comment about Obama's lipstick remark.

Programmer
09-17-2008, 02:26 PM
OK, but it was every bit as much a lie as this McCain comment about Obama's lipstick remark.

Most people with common sense knows exactly what Obama was saying when he made the remark. Even jaz knows what he was referring to, it's just something they need to hang their hat on, they've got nothing else.

tiptap
09-17-2008, 03:01 PM
OK, but it was every bit as much a lie as this McCain comment about Obama's lipstick remark.

"Lipstick on a pig" is the same as McCain saying "maybe a 100 years" is a false statement in that they are both abridged and therefore easily misinterpreted. In that sense you are correct patteeu.

Is it the same in the directness of the quote to a real instance. Isn't McCain offering a commitent to an area he is willing to physically have a presence. No one interprets that a pig with lipstick implies such a willingness to invest resources.

Programmer
09-17-2008, 03:36 PM
"Lipstick on a pig" is the same as McCain saying "maybe a 100 years" is a false statement in that they are both abridged and therefore easily misinterpreted. In that sense you are correct patteeu.

Is it the same in the directness of the quote to a real instance. Isn't McCain offering a commitent to an area he is willing to physically have a presence. No one interprets that a pig with lipstick implies such a willingness to invest resources.

So you are saying a lie is a lie unless it's Obama telling it? Sounds about right, or should we say left?