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View Full Version : Elections Let us sit down for a comparison, shall we?


Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Obama's new ad on the economy (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/planforchange_ad/):

Obama: In the past few weeks, Wall Street's been rocked as banks closed and markets tumbled. But for many of you -- the people I've met in town halls, back yards and diners across America -- our troubled economy isn't news. 600,000 Americans have lost their jobs since January. Paychecks are flat and home values are falling. It's hard to pay for gas and groceries and if you put it on a credit card they've probably raised your rates. You're paying more than ever for health insurance that covers less and less.

This isn't just a string of bad luck. The truth is that while you've been living up to your responsibilities Washington has not.

That's why we need change. Real change.

This is no ordinary time and it shouldn't be an ordinary election.

But much of this campaign has been consumed by petty attacks and distractions that have nothing to do with you or how we get America back on track.

Here's what I believe we need to do. Reform our tax system to give a $1,000 tax break to the middle class instead of showering more on oil companies and corporations that outsource our jobs. End the "anything goes" culture on Wall Street with real regulation that protects your investments and pensions. Fast track a plan for energy 'made-in-America' that will free us from our dependence on mid-east oil in 10 years and put millions of Americans to work. Crack down on lobbyists - once and for all -- so their back-room deal-making no longer drowns out the voices of the middle class and undermines our common interests as Americans. And yes, bring a responsible end to this war in Iraq so we stop spending billions each month rebuilding their country when we should be rebuilding ours.

Doing these things won't be easy. But we're Americans. We've met tough challenges before. And we can again. I'm Barack Obama. I hope you'll read my economic plan. I approved this message because bitter, partisan fights and outworn ideas of the left and the right won't solve the problems we face today. But a new spirit of unity and shared responsibility will.

McCain's new ad on the economy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRg8kaKfLXs):


McCain: You, the American workers, are the best in the world.

But your economic security has been put at risk by the greed of Wall Street.

That's unacceptable.

My opponent's only solutions are talk and taxes.

I'll reform Wall Street and fix Washington. I've taken on tougher guys than this before.

ANNCR: Change is coming. John McCain.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2008, 10:56 AM
But your economic security has been put at risk by the greed of Wall Street.

That's unacceptable.
He's an idiot for blaming it all on Wall Street.
No wonder he has to get tutoring from "I drove-HP-into-the ground" Carly on economics.

National Socialist.

BigChiefFan
09-17-2008, 11:12 AM
McCain really seems out of touch. He isn't making a convincing argument in the least. There is no way I could, in good faith, endorse handing the country over to him. What is this man's plan? Please? Anybody?

Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 11:24 AM
What is this man's plan? Please? Anybody?"I'll reform Wall Street and fix Washington."

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2008, 11:28 AM
"600,000 Americans have lost their jobs since January"

599,999. I got another one.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 11:34 AM
I don't see how Obama's prescription addresses the problem he's diagnosed. It's like a doctor telling you you have lung cancer and suggesting that you cut back on spicy foods and get regular eye exams.

Bootlegged
09-17-2008, 11:35 AM
You sit down to pee, don't you?

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
09-17-2008, 11:39 AM
I don't see how Obama's prescription addresses the problem he's diagnosed. It's like a doctor telling you you have lung cancer and suggesting that you cut back on spicy foods and get regular eye exams.

Compared to McCain's plan? Or just generally speaking?

Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 11:53 AM
You sit down to pee, don't you?You scrape your knuckles wildly against the keyboard to post, don't you?

mlyonsd
09-17-2008, 11:54 AM
I want to know what the ramifications are if we elect this guy and are not off of foreign oil in 10 years. I can't believe people are buying that.

The guy has proven he'll say anything at this point and the media doesn't call him on it.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Compared to McCain's plan? Or just generally speaking?

Based on Obama's ad. This has nothing to do with McCain. McCain's ad is devoid of specifics. Obama's ad gives the illusion of having specifics but breaks down upon inspection. The ads are equally nonresponsive to the current troubles in the financial industry, afaict.

Taco John
09-17-2008, 12:14 PM
I want to know what the ramifications are if we elect this guy and are not off of foreign oil in 10 years. I can't believe people are buying that.

The guy has proven he'll say anything at this point and the media doesn't call him on it.

Are you talking about McCain or Obama? It's not clear by your post.

mlyonsd
09-17-2008, 12:32 PM
Are you talking about McCain or Obama? It's not clear by your post.

Seems clear to me. Mr. Obama.

***SPRAYER
09-17-2008, 12:49 PM
This election is BS. They all suck.

HC_Chief
09-17-2008, 12:54 PM
This election is BS. They all suck.

:thumb:

|Zach|
09-17-2008, 01:12 PM
America. The new Flint, Michigan.

Calcountry
09-17-2008, 02:07 PM
:thumb:That's a fine looking herd of sheep.

Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 02:28 PM
Based on Obama's ad. This has nothing to do with McCain. McCain's ad is devoid of specifics. Obama's ad gives the illusion of having specifics but breaks down upon inspection. The ads are equally nonresponsive to the current troubles in the financial industry, afaict.In this dumbed-down "talking to the people" ad alone, he mentioned four specifics:

- Cutting back on oil companies' tax rebates by enacting a windfall profits tax, as well as offering incentives for companies who hire Americans.
- Correcting the wild deregulation of the past decade which has gotten us into this mess in the first place.
- Launching an ambitious alternative energy initiative.
- Ending the war in Iraq, cutting out that massive drain.

But yeah, that's exactly the same as "I'll fix it, trust me."

:thumb:They're all the saaaaaaaaame! Ron Paul Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
09-17-2008, 02:38 PM
Based on Obama's ad. This has nothing to do with McCain. McCain's ad is devoid of specifics. Obama's ad gives the illusion of having specifics but breaks down upon inspection. The ads are equally nonresponsive to the current troubles in the financial industry, afaict.


I will grant you Obama's ad is broadstrokes at best; at least he offers some specific points and personally asks for people to look at his economic plan.

McCain on the other hand I guess just expects people to trust him and not to worry about how he will "reform wall street and fix Washington"; but just take his word on it?

***SPRAYER
09-17-2008, 04:25 PM
America. The new Flint, Michigan.


Sad, but true.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 04:51 PM
In this dumbed-down "talking to the people" ad alone, he mentioned four specifics:

- Cutting back on oil companies' tax rebates by enacting a windfall profits tax, as well as offering incentives for companies who hire Americans.
- Correcting the wild deregulation of the past decade which has gotten us into this mess in the first place.
- Launching an ambitious alternative energy initiative.
- Ending the war in Iraq, cutting out that massive drain.

But yeah, that's exactly the same as "I'll fix it, trust me."

They're all the saaaaaaaaame! Ron Paul Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only "specific" you listed that has anything close to a direct relationship with the problem being discussed is bolded above. And it is subject to the same complaint you have about McCain's ad. It's nothing more than "I'll fix it, trust me". Like I said, Obama's ad contains illusory specifics.

Guru
09-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Taxing the rich even more sure won't help the economy.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 04:56 PM
I will grant you Obama's ad is broadstrokes at best; at least he offers some specific points and personally asks for people to look at his economic plan.

McCain on the other hand I guess just expects people to trust him and not to worry about how he will "reform wall street and fix Washington"; but just take his word on it?

I still don't see a difference. Both ads are Twinkies in terms of political nutritional value. Obama's is the name brand with the fantastic packaging. McCain's is less flashy but once the packaging is stipped away it's made of the same junk food.

HolyHandgernade
09-17-2008, 05:08 PM
I still don't see a difference. Both ads are Twinkies in terms of political nutritional value. Obama's is the name brand with the fantastic packaging. McCain's is less flashy but once the packaging is stipped away it's made of the same junk food.

I'm just curious, and I ask not to criticize your observation, but what exactly would you expect to see from either candidate in a :30 to 2:00 ad? I mean, maybe you have gone to both candidates websites and read over both their platforms to come to the same conclusion, I just have no clue what specific you are looking for in a problem that will probably involve many decisions over the course of years?

-HH

patteeu
09-17-2008, 05:32 PM
I'm just curious, and I ask not to criticize your observation, but what exactly would you expect to see from either candidate in a :30 to 2:00 ad? I mean, maybe you have gone to both candidates websites and read over both their platforms to come to the same conclusion, I just have no clue what specific you are looking for in a problem that will probably involve many decisions over the course of years?

-HH

To be honest, I don't pay much attention to the ads and they have almost zero influence on how I vote. I can't remember the last time a political ad caused me to change my position about a candidate. To answer your question more directly, I'm not sure a candidate could come up with an informative ad on this topic that would cover a serious plan to address the complex issues.

Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 07:56 PM
I still don't see a difference. Both ads are Twinkies in terms of political nutritional value. Obama's is the name brand with the fantastic packaging. McCain's is less flashy but once the packaging is stipped away it's made of the same junk food.OBAMA is the flashy one? Not the guy whose commercial is ONE LINER-dramatic pause-ONE LINER-dramatic pause-ONE LINER?

irishjayhawk
09-17-2008, 09:27 PM
The only "specific" you listed that has anything close to a direct relationship with the problem being discussed is bolded above. And it is subject to the same complaint you have about McCain's ad. It's nothing more than "I'll fix it, trust me". Like I said, Obama's ad contains illusory specifics.

Pat the Rat, again!

So nice to have you.

If you don't think Obama's ad was specific, I don't think anyone can help you. You'll rationalize anything.

KCJohnny
09-17-2008, 09:37 PM
McCain on the other hand I guess just expects people to trust him and not to worry about how he will "reform wall street and fix Washington"; but just take his word on it?

Leaders with an actual record enjoy that trust.

Ultra Peanut
09-17-2008, 10:14 PM
Leaders with an actual record enjoy that trust.What part of McCain's record gives you the confidence, plans unseen, that he'll be able to deal with a major economic crisis?

KCJohnny
09-17-2008, 10:34 PM
What part of McCain's record gives you the confidence, plans unseen, that he'll be able to deal with a major economic crisis?

His record demonstrates he can work with both parties, that he is a leader in the drafting, development and passage of key legislation, his reform bills (McCain-Feingold comes to mind) address [perceived] corruption, and his record as a pork-buster is commendable.

patteeu
09-17-2008, 11:29 PM
Pat the Rat, again!

So nice to have you.

If you don't think Obama's ad was specific, I don't think anyone can help you. You'll rationalize anything.

It's not surprising to me that this passes as "specific" enough for you. What a joke.

Logical
09-17-2008, 11:45 PM
<object width="486" height="412">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ONM7148cTyc&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="486" height="412"></object>

Good tone, filled with specifics at the end.:clap::clap:

Logical
09-18-2008, 01:38 AM
<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1185304443" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1762072531&playerId=1185304443&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-18-2008, 01:42 AM
His record demonstrates he can work with both parties, that he is a leader in the drafting, development and passage of key legislation, his reform bills (McCain-Feingold comes to mind) address [perceived] corruption, and his record as a pork-buster is commendable.

You do realize that McCain-Feingold has been a disaster, right?

Logical
09-18-2008, 01:43 AM
Unwilling to meet with the common folk?<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1185304443" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashvars="videoId=1417300924&playerId=1185304443&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swliveconnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" width="486" height="412">

Logical
09-18-2008, 01:47 AM
Yup, he has no plans...

<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1185304443" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1772030471&playerId=1185304443&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

Logical
09-18-2008, 01:51 AM
Promises no sacrifices right... nope wrong gives it to you straight.

<embed src="http://services.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1185304443" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=1416866940&playerId=1185304443&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

KCJohnny
09-18-2008, 04:46 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mKhzqG3_DPA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=ko&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mKhzqG3_DPA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=ko&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Ultra Peanut
09-18-2008, 08:29 AM
You do realize that McCain-Feingold has been a disaster, right?All McCain is doing when he exploits the massive loopholes in McCain-Feigold is, uh, providing an EXAMPLE of what needs to be improved upon.

irishjayhawk
09-18-2008, 10:01 AM
It's not surprising to me that this passes as "specific" enough for you. What a joke.

What's not specific about it, Pat the Rat?

patteeu
09-18-2008, 10:51 AM
What's not specific about it, Pat the Rat?

I've already explained it.

irishjayhawk
09-18-2008, 12:45 PM
I've already explained it.

No, you haven't Pat the Rat.

You have merely brushed them aside as not specific enough for the content he's addressing.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 01:43 PM
No, you haven't Pat the Rat.

You have merely brushed them aside as not specific enough for the content he's addressing.

Educate me then. Walk me through how one of these Obama specifics is going to address the current financial difficulties or help to prevent them from being repeated.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 01:44 PM
BTW, what does "Pat the Rat" mean? Is there some significance to your choice or did you just like the sound?

irishjayhawk
09-18-2008, 03:50 PM
BTW, what does "Pat the Rat" mean? Is there some significance to your choice or did you just like the sound?

Pat the Rat

A) sounds good
B) Rat is short for rationalizer. It highlights your uncanny ability to rationalize ANYTHING to fit ANY agenda.

irishjayhawk
09-18-2008, 03:51 PM
Educate me then. Walk me through how one of these Obama specifics is going to address the current financial difficulties or help to prevent them from being repeated.

Well, first, you blew over the fact he mentions his $1000 tax break for the middle class.

Second, let's just go with one of the several you threw out. One of them was finding a new energy source. This helps, no doubt. However, one can't in the course of 2 minutes be specific and divulge into an entire separate energy policy.

MahiMike
09-18-2008, 07:09 PM
blah, blah, blah

None of these campaigns have anything to do w/their candidates. Just propoganda on shit they won't live up to.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Well, first, you blew over the fact he mentions his $1000 tax break for the middle class.

How does that relate to the financial turmoil that's taking place? I don't see any connection at all.

Second, let's just go with one of the several you threw out. One of them was finding a new energy source. This helps, no doubt. However, one can't in the course of 2 minutes be specific and divulge into an entire separate energy policy.

Again, I see no connection to the immediate financial problems that are taking place in our lending and banking industry.

Absent that connection, this type of "specific" isn't really a specific at all.

tiptap
09-18-2008, 08:25 PM
I am betting on buying up unfinished new developments, away from the coasts and off flood plains. Then the best Green minds are put to work on several pilot programs to see how Green these can be and also provide the energy on site.
Additionally GM gets a leg up when incentives are provided for plug in cars. This becomes a garage industry as well. The grid is used at night off hours to charge for commutes. This reduces oil demand.

irishjayhawk
09-18-2008, 09:06 PM
How does that relate to the financial turmoil that's taking place? I don't see any connection at all.

Money back in people's pockets.

FTR, I am against it.



Again, I see no connection to the immediate financial problems that are taking place in our lending and banking industry.

Absent that connection, this type of "specific" isn't really a specific at all.

Savings on energy creates more money in the pockets of the people who can then pay off the loans they've taken or the credit they've overdrawn on.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 05:53 AM
Money back in people's pockets.

FTR, I am against it.




Savings on energy creates more money in the pockets of the people who can then pay off the loans they've taken or the credit they've overdrawn on.

You shouldn't be allowed to vote. Those are not ways to directly address the current financial turmoil. It's a huge stretch to even suggest that they're related indirectly.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 06:38 AM
You shouldn't be allowed to vote. Those are not ways to directly address the current financial turmoil. It's a huge stretch to even suggest that they're related indirectly.

You think the current cost of living hasn't affected peoples ability to pay on these credit issues? I'd have to disagree with that. As far as I knew the credit crisis is what started this whole thing. Having less money to pay more is what started the credit crisis.

Btw, it isn't nice to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

:D

Boyceofsummer
09-19-2008, 06:53 AM
Based on Obama's ad. This has nothing to do with McCain. McCain's ad is devoid of specifics. Obama's ad gives the illusion of having specifics but breaks down upon inspection. The ads are equally nonresponsive to the current troubles in the financial industry, afaict.

There will be no money for new programs or any more bail-outs. No more cash for wars. Time to stay home, hunker-down and pay down our massive debt!

Signed,

Fluckuasians

patteeu
09-19-2008, 07:22 AM
You think the current cost of living hasn't affected peoples ability to pay on these credit issues? I'd have to disagree with that. As far as I knew the credit crisis is what started this whole thing. Having less money to pay more is what started the credit crisis.

I don't think putting "money back in people's pockets" is even close to a serious way to address the problems in the financial industry. It's not that people didn't have enough money, it's that they took on too much risk when they borrowed. Whether that is the fault of the borrower, the lender, the regulatory scheme or some combination, I can't say.

And now that the bad debt is already there, it's too late to address the issue with some kind of dubious, trickle-up bailout of the people who took out the bad loans to begin with. Besides, Obama's ad doesn't target these people anyway so it's ludicrous for irishjayhawk to say that the ad contains "specifics" of any relevance.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 10:12 AM
I don't think putting "money back in people's pockets" is even close to a serious way to address the problems in the financial industry. It's not that people didn't have enough money, it's that they took on too much risk when they borrowed. Whether that is the fault of the borrower, the lender, the regulatory scheme or some combination, I can't say.

And now that the bad debt is already there, it's too late to address the issue with some kind of dubious, trickle-up bailout of the people who took out the bad loans to begin with. Besides, Obama's ad doesn't target these people anyway so it's ludicrous for irishjayhawk to say that the ad contains "specifics" of any relevance.

Sorry, Pat the Rat, I guess I didn't know they had to be related enough for you to see they're related.


Sure, will those things SOLVE the crisis, absolutely not. Will they help, absolutely. But I guess that's not relevant enough.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 10:24 AM
Sorry, Pat the Rat, I guess I didn't know they had to be related enough for you to see they're related.


Sure, will those things SOLVE the crisis, absolutely not. Will they help, absolutely. But I guess that's not relevant enough.

There is no reason to think they'll even help. Happy talk from the bully pulpit is more likely to help than those proposals. But wrap yourself in your Obama cocoon of hope if it makes you feel better. Don't worry, he'll take care of you.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 10:25 AM
There is no reason to think they'll even help. Happy talk from the bully pulpit is more likely to help than those proposals. But wrap yourself in your Obama cocoon of hope if it makes you feel better. Don't worry, he'll take care of you.

I'm not wrapping myself in the Obama cocoon. It was, however, in comparison, specific.

And that's what the thread title says.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 11:43 AM
I'm not wrapping myself in the Obama cocoon. It was, however, in comparison, specific.

And that's what the thread title says.

LOL, yeah right. Sweet dreams, lil' fella.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 11:48 AM
LOL, yeah right. Sweet dreams, lil' fella.

So, it wasn't more specific than McCains, Pat the Rat?

patteeu
09-19-2008, 12:34 PM
So, it wasn't more specific than McCains, Pat the Rat?

No. Zero is zero whether you dress it up with a bunch of specific-sounding, but unrelated, camouflage or not.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 01:06 PM
No. Zero is zero whether you dress it up with a bunch of specific-sounding, but unrelated, camouflage or not.

Yet, even you highlighted one specific on Obama's ad. Can you do the same with McCains?

patteeu
09-19-2008, 01:10 PM
Yet, even you highlighted one specific on Obama's ad. Can you do the same with McCains?

You're still confusing specific with specific-sounding. Obama's ad doesn't contain specifics.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 01:21 PM
I don't think putting "money back in people's pockets" is even close to a serious way to address the problems in the financial industry. It's not that people didn't have enough money, it's that they took on too much risk when they borrowed. Whether that is the fault of the borrower, the lender, the regulatory scheme or some combination, I can't say.

And now that the bad debt is already there, it's too late to address the issue with some kind of dubious, trickle-up bailout of the people who took out the bad loans to begin with. Besides, Obama's ad doesn't target these people anyway so it's ludicrous for irishjayhawk to say that the ad contains "specifics" of any relevance.

So if the economy were yours to turn around (including the "credit crisis") how would you do it?

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 01:21 PM
You're still confusing specific with specific-sounding. Obama's ad doesn't contain specifics.

to be fair, it's hard to get into specifics in a 30 second commercial.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 02:03 PM
to be fair, it's hard to get into specifics in a 30 second commercial.

Sure. But that's no reason to pretend that they're there.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 02:06 PM
So if the economy were yours to turn around (including the "credit crisis") how would you do it?

I'd ask penchief or 'Hamas' what they'd do and then do exactly the opposite. :D

Seriously, I have no idea what needs to be done. To say I fully understand the problem would be an exaggeration. I suspect I'm not alone in this though. Which brings up the question of what we'd do with specifics even if they were in the ads. :shrug:

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 02:09 PM
I'd ask penchief or 'Hamas' what they'd do and then do exactly the opposite. :D

Seriously, I have no idea what needs to be done. To say I fully understand the problem would be an exaggeration. I suspect I'm not alone in this though. Which brings up the question of what we'd do with specifics even if they were in the ads. :shrug:

Me neither, that's why I'm trying to stay out of it as much as possible.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 03:50 PM
Me neither, that's why I'm trying to stay out of it as much as possible.

Well that's reasonable. It doesn't take any expertise on the problem to recognize that the concept of this thread, i.e. that Obama is offering specifics in his ad while McCain is just singing sunshine, is half bogus though (the Obama half) and it deserved to be countered.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 05:27 PM
I'd ask penchief or 'Hamas' what they'd do and then do exactly the opposite. :D

Seriously, I have no idea what needs to be done. To say I fully understand the problem would be an exaggeration. I suspect I'm not alone in this though. Which brings up the question of what we'd do with specifics even if they were in the ads. :shrug:

Well, at least you admitted what I had come to assume: You wouldn't know what to do if he'd been specific to a tee.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 06:33 PM
Well, at least you admitted what I had come to assume: You wouldn't know what to do if he'd been specific to a tee.

Brilliant!

whoman69
09-19-2008, 10:11 PM
The only "specific" you listed that has anything close to a direct relationship with the problem being discussed is bolded above. And it is subject to the same complaint you have about McCain's ad. It's nothing more than "I'll fix it, trust me". Like I said, Obama's ad contains illusory specifics.

You want him to write a term paper and put it in his ad?

McCain is the maverick, he'll fix it. You know McCain is right in one thing. He doesn't know very much about the economy.

patteeu
09-20-2008, 07:26 AM
You want him to write a term paper and put it in his ad?

McCain is the maverick, he'll fix it. You know McCain is right in one thing. He doesn't know very much about the economy.

Don't be an idiot. I don't care what he puts in his ads as long as it's honest, but let's not mistake fluff for substance. That seems to be a common problem among Obama's faithful.