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BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 08:52 AM
Personally I would receive a tax break, but come on. These people pay more then their fair share of taxes. Just worry about cutting the crap spending.


Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says that paying higher taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans.

Biden says he and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama want to “take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people.”

Under the Democrats’ economic plan, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.

Biden told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Thursday that, in his words, “it’s time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.”

Mecca
09-18-2008, 08:54 AM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

Garcia Bronco
09-18-2008, 08:57 AM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

I propose a winfall tax on movie and music makers. They aren't real jobs anyway.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 08:59 AM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

I'm no where near that either, but these people already shoulder a majority of the tax burden. Keep taxes the same ,don't cut or raise anybody's. Just worry about cutting spending.

tiptap
09-18-2008, 09:01 AM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.


We all don't vote Republican. I will be paying the higher taxes. I will work hard to reduce my exposure. But with a Democratic Congress and President I will feel more of my priorities are being met with my taxes. And I think so well enough to support up to the limit, many Democratic Candidates. And it stems from patriotism for what I see as the best in America.

mlyonsd
09-18-2008, 09:03 AM
LOL, keep talking Joe.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 09:05 AM
LOL, keep talking Joe.

I would have agreed with him had he told congress to "Be Patriotic and quit pissing away tax payer money".

banyon
09-18-2008, 09:05 AM
Yeah, we're at war and have a national debt that's rapidly growing beyond our control. How dare anyone be asked to sacrifice one iota!

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 09:12 AM
Yeah, we're at war and have a national debt that's rapidly growing beyond our control. How dare anyone be asked to sacrifice one iota!


Then why not just say, look we can't give everyone this huge tax cut we've promised you? I'm as middle class as it gets and I've managed to do okay by being responsible with my money. I don't "need" a tax cut from Obama or McCain. What I would like them to do is get Gov't spending, energy cost and inflation under control, not print more money, or tax the group already paying way more then they should.

Mecca
09-18-2008, 09:14 AM
We all don't vote Republican. I will be paying the higher taxes. I will work hard to reduce my exposure. But with a Democratic Congress and President I will feel more of my priorities are being met with my taxes. And I think so well enough to support up to the limit, many Democratic Candidates. And it stems from patriotism for what I see as the best in America.

I understand not everyone making that votes Republican.

I just get annoyed when they talk about tax increases when it affects a very few % of the population Obama is basically going to put the tax scale back where Clinton had it.

mlyonsd
09-18-2008, 09:14 AM
Yeah, we're at war and have a national debt that's rapidly growing beyond our control. How dare anyone be asked to sacrifice one iota!

LOL, things are so bad only the rich should be patriotic.

Bring on the class warfare. Bring on socialism. Bring on winning an election by playing to the stupid people.

tiptap
09-18-2008, 09:14 AM
Then why not just say, look we can't give everyone this huge tax cut we've promised you? I'm as middle class as it gets and I've managed to do okay by being responsible with my money. I don't "need" a tax cut from Obama or McCain. What I would like them to do is get Gov't spending, energy cost and inflation under control, not print more money, or tax the group already paying way more then they should.

You know what, that is what you are going to get in the long run whether you like it or not.

tiptap
09-18-2008, 09:16 AM
I understand not everyone making that votes Republican.

I just get annoyed when they talk about tax increases when it affects a very few % of the population Obama is basically going to put the tax scale back where Clinton had it.

Yes I know, but Biden's comment are meant for the base. And I represent that part of the base that he was speaking to.

Mecca
09-18-2008, 09:16 AM
LOL, things are so bad only the rich should be patriotic.

Bring on the class warfare. Bring on socialism. Bring on winning an election by playing to the stupid people.

Playing to the stupid people, aren't the Republicans the masters of this..

banyon
09-18-2008, 09:17 AM
LOL, things are so bad only the rich should be patriotic.

Bring on the class warfare. Bring on socialism. Bring on winning an election by playing to the stupid people.

Instead of socialism, how about just bringing things back to where they were? These are the lowest rates and best tax deals for the wealthy since the early 1930's.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 09:20 AM
You know what, that is what you are going to get in the long run whether you like it or not.

A tax cut?

mlyonsd
09-18-2008, 09:22 AM
Instead of socialism, how about just bringing things back to where they were? These are the lowest rates and best tax deals for the wealthy since the early 1930's.

Why? 40% of American workers don't pay income tax. That's BS.

penchief
09-18-2008, 09:27 AM
I do believe that it is very unpatriotic for corporations to employ the infrastructure of this country and take advantage of the freedoms this country offers in order to pursue unlimited wealth and not reciprocate their civic duty.

Instead, they hold a gun to the heads of workers and consumers, exploit the resources of this country, manipulate the economy, ship job overseas, and set up offices off shore in order to avoid paying taxes.

I do think that perpetuating the system which allows one the opportunity to prosper is a patriotic duty. Passing on the American dream to the coming generations is a responsibility. Unfortunately, the current environment of greed and hubris has placed a priority on maximizing profit at all costs, even at the cost of our country's future prosperity and it's core principles.

So yes, the idea of paying taxes in order to maintain our way of life is a patriotic gesture, IMO.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 09:29 AM
With this reason of thinking, All Americans just just belly out more, why not everybody be patriotic....... Oh, the nerve of Biden calling the 95% Americans that Obama wants to give tax breaks to as unpatriotic .

mlyonsd
09-18-2008, 09:30 AM
I do believe that it is very unpatriotic for corporations to employ the infrastructure of this country and take advantage of the freedoms this country offers in order to pursue unlimited wealth and not reciprocate their civic duty.

Instead, they hold a gun to the heads of workers and consumers, exploit the resources of this country, manipulate the economy, ship job overseas, and set up offices off shore in order to avoid paying taxes.

I do think that perpetuating the system which allows one the opportunity to prosper is a patriotic duty. Passing on the American dream to the coming generations is a responsibility. Unfortunately, the current environment of greed and hubris has placed a priority on maximizing profit at all costs, even at the cost of our country's future prosperity and it's core principles.

So yes, the idea of paying taxes in order to maintain our way of life is a patriotic gesture, IMO.

I will say this. The one thing I agree with Obama on is taxing corporations that move jobs overseas. You want the cheap labor? Then there's a price.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 09:35 AM
I will say this. The one thing I agree with Obama on is taxing corporations that move jobs overseas. You want the cheap labor? Then there's a price.

Liberalism does not see or understand this ...... Tax the rich and business, as long as BIG GOVERNMENT gets some money, who cares where it comes from and how they get it .

penchief
09-18-2008, 09:36 AM
Liberalism does not see or understand this ...... Tax the rich and business, as long as BIG GOVERNMENT gets some money, who cares where it comes from and how they get it .

Huh?

All I can say is.......SCOREBOARD!!!

banyon
09-18-2008, 09:41 AM
Why? 40% of American workers don't pay income tax. That's BS.

Why are the rates the lowest? Is that your question? I guess it would be decades of Congressional concessions in these areas.

Also your "40%" jab only works if you exclude payroll, SSA, FICA, etc.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 09:41 AM
Huh?

All I can say is.......SCOREBOARD!!!

Great, you agree that liberals and democrats don't care, as long as they get it for BIG GOVERNMENT. Now if we can just get you to understand this ......:rolleyes:

Thanks for the confirmation , Pete.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 09:42 AM
Also your "40%" jab only works if you exclude payroll, SSA, FICA, etc.

How so ?

banyon
09-18-2008, 09:44 AM
Liberalism does not see or understand this ...... Tax the rich and business, as long as BIG GOVERNMENT gets some money, who cares where it comes from and how they get it .

I cannot hope to compete with this, the definitive treatise on fiscal policy and economic equality of this century.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 09:47 AM
Yeah, we're at war and have a national debt that's rapidly growing beyond our control. How dare anyone be asked to sacrifice one iota!

Personally, I don't mind the call for sacrifice. In fact, I think it's probably something that should have happened a few years ago. My problem is with Obama/Biden's choice to ask only a small group of people to sacrifice even though they are the same group of people who are already carrying us in terms of taxes. It's time for the poor to grab a section of rope and start pulling. And the "sacrifice" ought to be subject to a sunset provision.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 09:49 AM
Instead of socialism, how about just bringing things back to where they were? These are the lowest rates and best tax deals for the wealthy since the early 1930's.

Quite a large group of the poor are currently enjoying their best income tax treatment of all time.

penchief
09-18-2008, 09:53 AM
Great, you agree that liberals and democrats don't care, as long as they get it for BIG GOVERNMENT. Now if we can just get you to understand this ......:rolleyes:

Thanks for the confirmation , Pete.

The scoreboard would indicate that corporations dominate America and that their profit motive has trumped everything else, including good governance and a fair market.

mlyonsd
09-18-2008, 09:54 AM
Why are the rates the lowest? Is that your question? I guess it would be decades of Congressional concessions in these areas.

Also your "40%" jab only works if you exclude payroll, SSA, FICA, etc.

I have no problem with the low tax rates. In fact, I'd cut them again and force cuts in spending before I'd increase them on anyone.

Until taxpayers force congress and the administration in power to cut spending we'll continue down the path to global irrelevance. That's a stab at both sides, btw.

Obama's Robin Hood plan of stealing from 'the rich' and giving a $1000 to 'the poor' just to win an election is no fix, not even a bandade. In fact, it's a page out of Bush's playbook.

And yea, I'm well aware of those 40% still pay some sort of tax. Just not income. To me the issue is the same.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 10:00 AM
Personally, I don't mind the call for sacrifice. In fact, I think it's probably something that should have happened a few years ago. My problem is with Obama/Biden's choice to ask only a small group of people to sacrifice even though they are the same group of people who are already carrying us in terms of taxes. It's time for the poor to grab a section of rope and start pulling. And the "sacrifice" ought to be subject to a sunset provision.

I agree, but not just poor, but the middle class, and rich. Everyone should if not sacrifice and least maintain the current tax rate. By taxing the rich and giving everyone else a tax cut, you are just redistributing the wealth and not addressing other fiscal issues in the country. While I do agree there needs to be some way to have the wealth more evenly distributed, I don't think excessive taxation should be the answer. It should be earned in some way.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 10:05 AM
Personally, I don't mind the call for sacrifice. In fact, I think it's probably something that should have happened a few years ago. My problem is with Obama/Biden's choice to ask only a small group of people to sacrifice even though they are the same group of people who are already carrying us in terms of taxes. It's time for the poor to grab a section of rope and start pulling. And the "sacrifice" ought to be subject to a sunset provision.

Agreed, if you want the truth, our debt is so far that getting it under control is damn near a pipe dream. Increase taxes and cut spending is the real answer, problem is poor Americans can't afford this. Trickle down economics, redistribution of the current intake is just a band aid ....


It's going to get worst with the current stock market and housing issues, the value of the dollar will decline even farther. Democrats wish to tax corporations even farther in the USA, currently the USA is ( IIRC ) next to last, as in the highest taxed country in the corporate world.

Is it any wonder jobs are going over seas ?

SNR
09-18-2008, 10:20 AM
That's the thing, Joe. Most of that money is going OVERSEAS to Iraq, Georigia, Africa, etc. Americans will see less than 50% of my money.

**** you.

banyon
09-18-2008, 10:24 AM
I have no problem with the low tax rates. In fact, I'd cut them again and force cuts in spending before I'd increase them on anyone.

Until taxpayers force congress and the administration in power to cut spending we'll continue down the path to global irrelevance. That's a stab at both sides, btw.

Obama's Robin Hood plan of stealing from 'the rich' and giving a $1000 to 'the poor' just to win an election is no fix, not even a bandade. In fact, it's a page out of Bush's playbook.

And yea, I'm well aware of those 40% still pay some sort of tax. Just not income. To me the issue is the same.

It is their income.

The other problem is the loophooles and offshore havens. That really needs to be addressed as well.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 10:36 AM
I agree, but not just poor, but the middle class, and rich. Everyone should if not sacrifice and least maintain the current tax rate. By taxing the rich and giving everyone else a tax cut, you are just redistributing the wealth and not addressing other fiscal issues in the country. While I do agree there needs to be some way to have the wealth more evenly distributed, I don't think excessive taxation should be the answer. It should be earned in some way.

I'm not on board with the idea that we need a way to have the wealth more evenly distributed, but in all other respects I agree.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 10:43 AM
I'm not on board with the idea that we need a way to have the wealth more evenly distributed, but in all other respects I agree.

Not distributed by the government, but there should be a tightening between the classes. It appears right now we are moving towards a 2 class systerm, the very wealthy and everyone else. History shows typically "everyone else" doesn't tolerate being on the bottom of the food chain for too long. Are we near that yet, probably not, but there has been a major shift in that direction. I would just prefer to use a means other then redistributing taxes.

KCJohnny
09-18-2008, 11:10 AM
Class warfare = marxism.

Not American.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2008, 11:13 AM
never understood why repugnant as so protective of the rich and so disdainful of the poor.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2008, 11:15 AM
Instead of socialism, how about just bringing things back to where they were? These are the lowest rates and best tax deals for the wealthy since the early 1930's.

If Obama gets elected and he wants to raise taxes to redistribute wealth then that's his right as the president. Unfortunately, if his words are to be believed, I think you'll see a lot of punitive taxes put in place in the name of fairness. He's said as much. And the resulting impact will not be pretty.

Hope I'm wrong.

KCJohnny
09-18-2008, 11:16 AM
never understood why repugnant as so protective of the rich and so disdainful of the poor.

Who do you think creates the wealth, prosperity and jobs in this country?

The government? The welfare state? Fannie May?

The "rich" are the economy's engine, and our marxist attempt to seize their profits will result in the same unhappy conclusion that all marxist revolutions culminate in: collapse of the economy and (most times) the social order.

HC_Chief
09-18-2008, 11:20 AM
Income tax is such a scam. The truly wealthy pay taxes on capital gains, at roughly 15%. Their "income" in terms of payroll is virtually nil.

If government wants to combat national debt, they should pass a law that requires them to have a balanced budget. No spending above said budget is allowed. Budget growth can be no greater than 1% less than the growth of GDP, or inflation (whichever is highest).

While they're at it, cut spending across the board.

I would love to see an act to review and remove legislation > 10yrs. Once a bill reached maturity, it HAS to come up for review or it is repealed.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2008, 11:23 AM
Who do you think creates the wealth, prosperity and jobs in this country?

The government? The welfare state? Fannie May?

The "rich" are the economy's engine, and our marxist attempt to seize their profits will result in the same unhappy conclusion that all marxist revolutions culminate in: collapse of the economy and (most times) the social order.

so to you, the reason the economy is struggling is because we haven't been "Bush Enough" in the last 8 years??

:hmmm:

PhillyChiefFan
09-18-2008, 11:27 AM
I don't mind paying taxes, it is how we have roads to drive on, public schools, etc. What I do mind is when my tax dollars go to some unnecessary earmark and people who use welfare as a salary, year in and year out.

PhillyChiefFan
09-18-2008, 11:31 AM
Income tax is such a scam. The truly wealthy pay taxes on capital gains, at roughly 15%. Their "income" in terms of payroll is virtually nil.

If government wants to combat national debt, they should pass a law that requires them to have a balanced budget. No spending above said budget is allowed. Budget growth can be no greater than 1% less than the growth of GDP, or inflation (whichever is highest).

While they're at it, cut spending across the board.

I would love to see an act to review and remove legislation > 10yrs. Once a bill reached maturity, it HAS to come up for review or it is repealed.

HC- is that why many big CEO's have a salary of like $1/yr? Because it can lower their personal income tax and they would only have to pay 15% for a stock option?

HC_Chief
09-18-2008, 11:32 AM
HC- is that why many big CEO's have a salary of like $1/yr? Because it can lower their personal income tax and they would only have to pay 15% for a stock option?

Most of those guys are paid in bonus or options, which IS taxable as income.

penchief
09-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Class warfare = marxism.

Not American.

Then why does the corporate elite and the republican party insist on waging class warfare on the working classes?

Also, pointing out that class warfare is being waged does not equate to waging class warfare.

BigCatDaddy
09-18-2008, 11:36 AM
My company is "based" in Bermuda, although all partners that run the company live in Raleigh, NC. I'm sure it's to avoid taxes somehow.

Ultra Peanut
09-18-2008, 11:53 AM
Seeing as Wall Street has more welfare queens than Harlem, I don't see what's so horrible about continuing to pay into the system that's provided such a nice safety net for the mega-rich.

My company is "based" in Bermuda, although all partners that run the company live in Raleigh, NC. I'm sure it's to avoid taxes somehow.Indeed. Those decrying corporate taxes should realize that a massive number of companies don't pay taxes. They get fat off the land, but refuse to actually ensure the land has the ability to keep providing sustenance. Where's the outrage over that?

PhillyChiefFan
09-18-2008, 11:54 AM
Most of those guys are paid in bonus or options, which IS taxable as income.

What is the benefit over just a straight salary?

KCJohnny
09-18-2008, 11:55 AM
Then why does the corporate elite and the republican party insist on waging class warfare on the working classes?

Also, pointing out that class warfare is being waged does not equate to waging class warfare.

That's a reach. :rolleyes:

HC_Chief
09-18-2008, 12:08 PM
What is the benefit over just a straight salary?

A helluva lot more money.

I'd take a performance-based bonus/stock option plan over set salary any day. You make a % based upon profit of the company.

What gets me are the golden parachutes given to executives who drive a company into the dirt.

penchief
09-18-2008, 12:21 PM
That's a reach. :rolleyes:

The reality of the day suggests otherwise.

StcChief
09-18-2008, 12:26 PM
I propose a winfall tax on movie and music makers. They aren't real jobs anyway.
absolutely... throw in Athletes too.

Bootlegged
09-18-2008, 12:29 PM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

Like Warren Buffett.

bluehawkdoc
09-18-2008, 12:41 PM
The reason to care is that Obama's plan (from what I can tell) includes small business owners in his tax increases for the "rich". If that's true, many small businesses that employ "the rest of us" will suffer (and possibly fail). It seems to me that people will care about a lower salary or loss of a job regardless of their tax bracket.

Hydrae
09-18-2008, 12:59 PM
I would have agreed with him had he told congress to "Be Patriotic and quit pissing away tax payer money".

Give me a candidate that says this and I will give him my vote every time. :thumb:

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 01:01 PM
The reason to care is that Obama's plan (from what I can tell) includes small business owners in his tax increases for the "rich". If that's true, many small businesses that employ "the rest of us" will suffer (and possibly fail). It seems to me that people will care about a lower salary or loss of a job regardless of their tax bracket.

If you are a small business owner who's rich you'll be included.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 01:26 PM
Obama gets in office and I close up my biz ...... I can get my disability and be better off .

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Obama gets in office and I close up my biz ...... I can get my disability and be better off .


see, you admit you'll be better off with Obama

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 01:32 PM
see, you admit you'll be better off with Obama


Yep, Obama will take care of me..... BIG GOVERNEMNET. Wait, does this mean I must become an OBOT ? :eek:

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 01:37 PM
Yep, Obama will take care of me..... BIG GOVERNEMNET. Wait, does this mean I must become an OBOT ? :eek:

In order to become an OBOT, you first have to learn how to spell government, Mr. Bush.
:D

Chief Faithful
09-18-2008, 01:52 PM
so to you, the reason the economy is struggling is because we haven't been "Bush Enough" in the last 8 years??

:hmmm:

Biden said be "Patriotic" not patronizing. Are you also joining the ranks of, "argue and get in their face" Obamanation?

memyselfI
09-18-2008, 02:05 PM
This clip will make a nice one/two punch when coupled with NObama's it's 'neighborly' to pay higher taxes remark made to Baba O'Reilly.

Can't you just see the commercial?

HolmeZz
09-18-2008, 02:05 PM
Yep, Obama will take care of me..... BIG GOVERNEMNET. Wait, does this mean I must become an OBOT ? :eek:

What are McCain's plans to slash government? Lay them out for me, Roy, because government has expanded under the guy you just voted for twice.

bluehawkdoc
09-18-2008, 02:25 PM
If you are a small business owner who's rich you'll be included.


I didn't mean the business owner but instead the small business itself. Any small business that makes over 250K would be subject to the tax increase. The middle and lower classes are going to feel the pain too.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:30 PM
I didn't mean the business owner but instead the small business itself. Any small business that makes over 250K would be subject to the tax increase. The middle and lower classes are going to feel the pain too.


is that sales or profit?

Programmer
09-18-2008, 02:31 PM
Obama and Biden, the new Robin Hood and Fryar Tuck.

Take from the rich and give to the poor.

Who currently pays the bulk of the revenue the U.S. Gov. takes in?

The top 0.1%? And these retards want to take more?

What will be the incintive to create new jobs if they are going to lose that much more to taxes? One chart shows their taxes more than doubling.

If they want to have more money in the coffers they need to limit the BS spending and earmarks. Obama is not about saving money but taking more from the rich, it's a welfare mentality for those on welfare.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:31 PM
Biden said be "Patriotic" not patronizing. Are you also joining the ranks of, "argue and get in their face" Obamanation?


it appears to me that is what you would be doing not vice versa

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:34 PM
Obama and Biden, the new Robin Hood and Fryar Tuck.

Take from the rich and give to the poor.

Who currently pays the bulk of the revenue the U.S. Gov. takes in?

The top 0.1%? And these retards want to take more?

What will be the incintive to create new jobs if they are going to lose that much more to taxes? One chart shows their taxes more than doubling.

If they want to have more money in the coffers they need to limit the BS spending and earmarks. Obama is not about saving money but taking more from the rich, it's a welfare mentality for those on welfare.

I see it as an opportunity to give someone a helping hand up

If you're poor you should provide the same percentage of income that someone with a billion dollars in the bank does?

RaiderH8r
09-18-2008, 02:38 PM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

Because Barry is also going to let Bush's tax cut expire which cut taxes for everybody who gets a portion of their paycheck lifted by that FICA asshole. So, right there, they have raised my taxes.

Programmer
09-18-2008, 02:40 PM
I see it as an opportunity to give someone a helping hand up

If you're poor you should provide the same percentage of income that someone with a billion dollars in the bank does?

It's income tax, not wealth tax.

How do you think new jobs are created? Those that Obama wants to tax out of business indirectly provide jobs by reinvesting the money they make. What do the "poor" do for the economy of the country? They suck of the goverment tit and cost us all.

The poor does not pay the same percentage in taxes as the rich, the rich pay substantially more in taxes than any of the poor. Last time I saw the top 1% pays more in taxes than the bottom 65%. Does that register?

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 02:40 PM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.This is a nihilistic, self absorbed, unpatriotic view of your position within this great country. It is this sense of entitlement, the ability to vote yourself a bigger share of the government teat that is bankrupting this country.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 02:41 PM
What are McCain's plans to slash government? Lay them out for me, Roy, because government has expanded under the guy you just voted for twice.

A good start is that he hasn't proposed $1 trillion of new spending like the other candidate has.

HC_Chief
09-18-2008, 02:45 PM
This is a nihilistic, self absorbed, unpatriotic view of your position within this great country. It is this sense of entitlement, the ability to vote yourself a bigger share of the government teat that is bankrupting this country.

I don't know about nihilistic and unpatriotic, but self absorbed is definitely on the mark.

The bankrupting of this country is not being done by or for the benefit of the "poor", IMO.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:46 PM
It's income tax, not wealth tax.

How do you think new jobs are created? Those that Obama wants to tax out of business indirectly provide jobs by reinvesting the money they make. What do the "poor" do for the economy of the country? They suck of the goverment tit and cost us all.

The poor does not pay the same percentage in taxes as the rich, the rich pay substantially more in taxes than any of the poor. Last time I saw the top 1% pays more in taxes than the bottom 65%. Does that register?

That registers quite well, thank you. In your previous statement you alluded to the thought that it should be equal

Take from the rich and give to the poor.

Who currently pays the bulk of the revenue the U.S. Gov. takes in?


Was that not your intention?

I think the "poor" problem could be fixed simply by more stringent guidelines for welfare, personally. I believe there are some good honest hardworking poor folks out there who can use a hand up.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 02:46 PM
This is a nihilistic, self absorbed, unpatriotic view of your position within this great country. It is this sense of entitlement, the ability to vote yourself a bigger share of the government teat that is bankrupting this country.

It's a shame.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:46 PM
This is a nihilistic, self absorbed, unpatriotic view of your position within this great country. It is this sense of entitlement, the ability to vote yourself a bigger share of the government teat that is bankrupting this country.

Last I checked it was an uncalled for war that was bankrupting this country.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 02:50 PM
Last I checked it was an uncalled for war that was bankrupting this country.

How can that be when Obama wants to redirect ALL of that spending into new domestic programs? Better check again.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 02:51 PM
Last I checked it was an uncalled for war that was bankrupting this country.Tell me, did the war cost a TRILLION DOLLARS?

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:54 PM
How can that be when Obama wants to redirect ALL of that spending into new domestic programs? Better check again.


bankrupting is present tense

what obama's gonna do is in future tense

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 02:55 PM
Tell me, did the war cost a TRILLION DOLLARS?


580 billion and growing, give it time

patteeu
09-18-2008, 02:59 PM
bankrupting is present tense

what obama's gonna do is in future tense

Obama disagrees with you so much that he plans to continue the same level of spending permanently. If it's bankrupting us now when the spending is temporary, that can't be good.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:01 PM
Last I checked it was an uncalled for war that was bankrupting this country.
I forgot, those terrorists come from "tiny" countries, and we should sit down with them, drink some tea, and feel their pain.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:03 PM
580 billion and growing, give it timeWe did a trillion dollars in a week on this amoral lending crap.

How much of hte 580 billion was "marginal" defense spending or supplementals?

We have a defense budget after all.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:03 PM
Obama disagrees with you so much that he plans to continue the same level of spending permanently. If it's bankrupting us now when the spending is temporary, that can't be good.

so you equate spending 580 billion on our own people of money that will stay in our economy to spending out overseas

:shrug:

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:04 PM
I forgot, those terrorists come from "tiny" countries, and we should sit down with them, drink some tea, and feel their pain.


You honestly felt Iraq was a threat to us. If anything we've turned it into a threat to us.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:04 PM
Obama disagrees with you so much that he plans to continue the same level of spending permanently. If it's bankrupting us now when the spending is temporary, that can't be good.
"A white mans greed runs a world in need. ", Mr. Ob*m*.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:06 PM
We did a trillion dollars in a week on this amoral lending crap.

How much of hte 580 billion was "marginal" defense spending or supplementals?

We have a defense budget after all.

Ok, the amoral lending stuff has nothing to do with the poor. That had to with credit being extended to unqualified people. Poor folk couldn't even come up with the downpayment.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:07 PM
You honestly felt Iraq was a threat to us. If anything we've turned it into a threat to us.
Absolutely, and unequivacly. Hussein was an intense threat to this country. He started the whole damn thing by overruning Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia's oil supplies. The dude wanted us. He funded terrorist suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians in Israel.

Besides, the oil output their can be doubled with modern investment.

That, and Iran is now surrounded.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Ok, the amoral lending stuff has nothing to do with the poor. That had to with credit being extended to unqualified people. Poor folk couldn't even come up with the downpayment.Why were the loans made then?

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:10 PM
Absolutely, and unequivacly. Hussein was an intense threat to this country. He started the whole damn thing by overruning Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia's oil supplies. The dude wanted us. He funded terrorist suicide bombers to kill innocent civilians in Israel.

Besides, the oil output their can be doubled with modern investment.

That, and Iran is now surrounded.

This is why we went to war.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:10 PM
Why were the loans made then?hell, I don't know

I didn't make them

Programmer
09-18-2008, 03:10 PM
That registers quite well, thank you. In your previous statement you alluded to the thought that it should be equal

Was that not your intention?

I think the "poor" problem could be fixed simply by more stringent guidelines for welfare, personally. I believe there are some good honest hardworking poor folks out there who can use a hand up.


If you inferred two differnt meanings from my statements, that would be a wrong inferrence.

There isn't a problem with those that are doing everything they can and still being in dire straits getting help. It's those that do not attempt to do more than sponge off the government. Those same people sponge off you at the intersection downtown, they sponge off those that are willing to give people a hand up, it's just they expect a hand out.

I think anyone drawing welfare that is able bodied and not working should be assigned to public service for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. At one time that was done, I don't see it anymore.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:10 PM
so you equate spending 580 billion on our own people of money that will stay in our economy to spending out overseas

:shrug:
How much of that 580 billion was in soldiers paychecks? You're not going to suggest that a lot of that money didn't circulate back to the U.S. now, are you?

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:11 PM
You see, the problem with you tools on the left, is that you think only in zero sum terms, that is not how the economy works.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:12 PM
How much of that 580 billion was in soldiers paychecks? You're not going to suggest that a lot of that money didn't circulate back to the U.S. now, are you?

I'm sure some did, however I'm not a big fan of the trickle down....

Programmer
09-18-2008, 03:12 PM
This is why we went to war.

I think you are mistaken. How much oil are we getting from Iraq?

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:13 PM
If you inferred two differnt meanings from my statements, that would be a wrong inferrence.

There isn't a problem with those that are doing everything they can and still being in dire straits getting help. It's those that do not attempt to do more than sponge off the government. Those same people sponge off you at the intersection downtown, they sponge off those that are willing to give people a hand up, it's just they expect a hand out.

I think anyone drawing welfare that is able bodied and not working should be assigned to public service for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. At one time that was done, I don't see it anymore.

I agree with everything you have just said, wholeheartedly.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:13 PM
hell, I don't know

I didn't make them
In order to understand what is bankrupting this country, you have to know the answer to that question. Get back to me when you have a theory, mmm k?

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:13 PM
You see, the problem with you tools on the left, is that you think only in zero sum terms, that is not how the economy works.

I think the problem with the right is sweeping generalizations.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm sure some did, however I'm not a big fan of the trickle down....
It's not trickle down, it is the multiplier effect. Like gravity, it exists. Only people who have a political agenda, deliberately and purposely put blinders on to avoid seing it.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:20 PM
This is why we went to war.
It is in our strategic national interests. Matter of fact, I can use this very thing, to blame the war on Liberal, tree hugging, environazis who REFUSE to let us get our own oil. Do you know why?

Mabye, Bush and his budies could look at a graph and see that demand for oil was going to outstrip the supply of oil x number of years out in the future. Given the failure to get drilling legislation enacted in 95 under Clinton, the powers that be looked out, how bout 10 years. I mean, we all know that it will take ten years before the drilling will make a difference, right?

So, the drilling thing failed in 95, and they said, OH SHIT, we are going to be in trouble around 2005. BAM, 2002, we go into Iraq to get the OIL. Its you enviromentalists fault. This war is on you.

patteeu
09-18-2008, 03:21 PM
so you equate spending 580 billion on our own people of money that will stay in our economy to spending out overseas

:shrug:

That's a fair point, but (a) a large amount of that $580 billion is spent domestically and (b) Obama has proposed $1 trillion in new spending.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:21 PM
In order to understand what is bankrupting this country, you have to know the answer to that question. Get back to me when you have a theory, mmm k?


Go ahead and elaborate on yours please.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:23 PM
It is in our strategic national interests. Matter of fact, I can use this very thing, to blame the war on Liberal, tree hugging, environazis who REFUSE to let us get our own oil. Do you know why?

Mabye, Bush and his budies could look at a graph and see that demand for oil was going to outstrip the supply of oil x number of years out in the future. Given the failure to get drilling legislation enacted in 95 under Clinton, the powers that be looked out, how bout 10 years. I mean, we all know that it will take ten years before the drilling will make a difference, right?

So, the drilling thing failed in 95, and they said, OH SHIT, we are going to be in trouble around 2005. BAM, 2002, we go into Iraq to get the OIL. Its you enviromentalists fault. This war is on you.


WTF

ROFL

so now I'm a tree hugging liberal environmentalist?

Slow down the name calling por favor.

The problem with that theory is there is no proof to back it up there, bunnydude

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:24 PM
That's a fair point, but (a) a large amount of that $580 billion is spent domestically and (b) Obama has proposed $1 trillion in new spending.


I can see this discussion going full circle, because I was going to say "that's where his tax plan comes in"

but I won't

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:26 PM
I think you are mistaken. How much oil are we getting from Iraq?It doesn't matter, the oil is on the Market, Iraq is a protectorate, and if they fug us, we fug them.

Same deal we gave Saudi Arabia after the Oil Embargo. The people in power in Iraq, need us to keep their asses covered, just like Saudi Arabia.

We are business partners now. Of course, if you people would let us get our own oil, which I much prefer, we wouldn't have to be so ruthless with the oil countries of the world.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 03:29 PM
WTF

ROFL

so now I'm a tree hugging liberal environmentalist?

Slow down the name calling por favor.

The problem with that theory is there is no proof to back it up there, bunnydudeYou do realize, this is an open forum, and although I am engaged with you in this discussion directly, there may be some tree huggers in the audience?

Direckshun
09-18-2008, 03:30 PM
It's an honor for our soldiers to lose their lives for the country, but it's a burden for the rich to pay higher taxes that they can readily afford.

jjchieffan
09-18-2008, 03:34 PM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

Oh great. Another issue for us to disagree on. If you think that a higher tax on the rich will not affect most Americans, then you are naive. Those wealthy Americans are what drives our economy. They are the ones creating jobs, and putting more money back into the economy. If the government takes more money from them, it takes away some of that ability, and average American is the one who suffers.

Direckshun
09-18-2008, 03:35 PM
Oh great. Another issue for us to disagree on. If you think that a higher tax on the rich will not affect most Americans, then you are naive. Those wealthy Americans are what drives our economy. They are the ones creating jobs, and putting more money back into the economy. If the government takes more money from them, it takes away some of that ability, and average American is the one who suffers.

How's the economy done recently?

Just curious. Those tax cuts they've had for years must really help.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 03:50 PM
You do realize, this is an open forum, and although I am engaged with you in this discussion directly, there may be some tree huggers in the audience?


So you were making a sweeping generalization.

Programmer
09-18-2008, 04:11 PM
How's the economy done recently?

Just curious. Those tax cuts they've had for years must really help.

From where I stand it's been pretty good. I'm locked in with projects for the next 3 years.

You seem to have difficulty of tying the current world situation and our finantial situation to the economy. The price of oil alone has had an impact never before seen.

If you revoke the Bush tax cuts and put a larger burden on those that do create jobs, what kind of an impact will that have on the economy? Fewer jobs which results in higher unemployment. Along with unemployment we end up with more people depending on the government to supply their every need.

You might not like the current situation, but over the past 8 years, even with 9/11 and the oil crisis, we have been doing pretty well as a whole. Unemployment rates are down to a level unheard of in the past. When you have 4 to 6% unemployment it isn't really a bad thing, it runs about average.

For the past 2-3 years the rate has been below 5% on average and was under 5% until Jan 2008, Feb 2008 it went to 5.1% IIRC and has been up and down between 5 and 6% since then.

We all know the lower the number the better, but we are not outside the norm. (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qve2Ds-cMvk/SMYQOZQurMI/AAAAAAAAAdA/XSaoDTRtHTA/s1600-h/Unemployment+rate+1998-2008.jpg)

Guru
09-18-2008, 04:15 PM
So, according to Biden, I no longer have to be patriotic. Got it.

Guru
09-18-2008, 04:16 PM
How's the economy done recently?

Just curious. Those tax cuts they've had for years must really help.

They have made a huge difference for myself as well as tons of other people I know.

bluehawkdoc
09-18-2008, 04:27 PM
is that sales or profit?

Gross income for the small business above 250K would incur the same tax increases that Obama proposes for the rich. This would be a crushing blow to small businesses everywhere.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 04:28 PM
They have made a huge difference for myself as well as tons of other people I know.


Yep Bush bought me a tv

Guru
09-18-2008, 04:29 PM
Yep Bush bought me a tv
Hey. I was against that stimulus package. Just like I am against the stimulus package Obama has suggested.

I am referring to my monthly take home pay.

Calcountry
09-18-2008, 04:31 PM
They have made a huge difference for myself as well as tons of other people I know.
Do you ever invest some of that marginal money?

Just how are jobs created anyway?

Oh, I forgot, the gubment gives out jobs.

Guru
09-18-2008, 04:33 PM
Do you ever invest some of that marginal money?

Just how are jobs created anyway?

Oh, I forgot, the gubment gives out jobs.

I invest all of the gains I have received from the Bush tax cuts.

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 04:34 PM
Gross income for the small business above 250K would incur the same tax increases that Obama proposes for the rich. This would be a crushing blow to small businesses everywhere.

this is not true

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/mccains_small-business_bunk.html

J Diddy
09-18-2008, 04:35 PM
I invest all of the gains I have received from the Bush tax cuts.

well loddy ****ing da

:D

Guru
09-18-2008, 04:37 PM
well loddy ****ing da

:D
:D

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Neither candidate has the right plan .......You want to change America, everybody do more . Obama says we must make sacrifices .... it's a proven fact that raising income and reducing cost is the solution to a debt...... So why not do this, let's get radical and be liberal .

Raise taxes across the board ......everybody, increase revenue.

Cut spending ........ Massive spending cuts !

Raise corporate taxes ........ Any Business will find a way to prosper .

Raise business taxes ......... Again, Business's will find a way to prosper .

Raise capital gains taxes ......... Here's more money for the government.

Continue to bail out every bankrupt business and corporations ..... keep the jobs here, at all cost . No wait, what is it, we must cut spending ? :eek:

Raise SS taxes ........... We have to take care of the poor and the old .

Make funds available to low income families under $ 75,000.00 per year. Bring it in and but shell it out too , make sure all can live and not be piss poor . Errr, we must cut spending , somehow .

We must redistribute the wealth,all money , it's the governments money to use. I mean, you give it to them.

If this is radical and seems liberal ,so what, , so is a lot of the ways some of the politicians that want to run the country and use your money.

As much as each candidate has some good ideas, some of these makes just as much sense .......

Do it all, whatever it takes , just like the energy crisis, do it all. Let's all sacrifice and become patriots.




Yes, this is a rant, but with some valid points

SBK
09-18-2008, 05:01 PM
It's so easy for people to write checks using other people's checkbook.

If we're going to talk about being patriotic, we should be saying EVERYONE should be paying higher taxes, not just a select few.

ROYC75
09-18-2008, 05:03 PM
It's so easy for people to write checks using other people's checkbook.

If we're going to talk about being patriotic, we should be saying EVERYONE should be paying higher taxes, not just a select few.


Bingo ......... Why are the people who are rich only patriotic ?

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2008, 05:37 PM
Since I'm not in the richest percent of Americans in that 250 grand and up bracket, and most people aren't why should they care?

The people in that bracket vote Republican anyhow.

Except for crazy-ass Hollywood folk

patteeu
09-18-2008, 08:46 PM
I can see this discussion going full circle, because I was going to say "that's where his tax plan comes in"

but I won't

If it's the spending on the war that is bankrupting our country (as you originally said) but a tax increase could prevent the bankruptcy, then it's not really the war spending that's causing the bankruptcy. What you're telling me is that we had plenty of resources to afford the war as long as we're willing to commit those resources.

tiptap
09-18-2008, 09:12 PM
Sometimes you want to use the gas pedal, sometimes you want to use the steering wheel, sometimes you want to hit the brakes, sometimes you want to do several things at once. But you can't step on the gas and hold the brakes without eventually doing in your tires or control. You can't put the car in reverse without stopping first without doing in your transmission.

Most of us adhere to the notion there is a business cycle. The question is why is this cycle ending so overwhelmingly bad compared to recent slow downs. I think most people understand that it wasn't simply the War Debt or the Housing Debt or the Personal Debt. It was a lack of managing them so they didn't align and reinforce each other. That and the rest of the worlds reluctance to reward what they never fully supported in the arrogance of doing it all alone.

So in seeking answers, in looking for solutions, several things are going to be tried while attempts will be made to start new "cylcles" but with an eye to coordinating but not synchronizing.

cutter
09-19-2008, 12:05 AM
We all don't vote Republican. I will be paying the higher taxes. I will work hard to reduce my exposure. But with a Democratic Congress and President I will feel more of my priorities are being met with my taxes. And I think so well enough to support up to the limit, many Democratic Candidates. And it stems from patriotism for what I see as the best in America.

I think I am going to have to question your patriotism.


WTF is "I will work hard to reduce my exposure?"


Pony up the cash to Biden - be a patriot.

Programmer
09-19-2008, 07:06 AM
It's so easy for people to write checks using other people's checkbook.

If we're going to talk about being patriotic, we should be saying EVERYONE should be paying higher taxes, not just a select few.


Because our money isn't green enough, we pay off in $1 increments, those Biden is talking about pay off in $1000 increments. We are less patriotic because we don't provide enough green.

Biden is a putz.

tiptap
09-19-2008, 07:14 AM
I think I am going to have to question your patriotism.


WTF is "I will work hard to reduce my exposure?"


Pony up the cash to Biden - be a patriot.

Gee, my patriotism was questioned every time I voiced opposition to the Iraq War. My patriotism was questioned every time I opposed deregulation. My patriotism was questioned every time I supported reduction in oil consumption and increase in reneweable. But not by Biden and those fellow Democrats. So I consider the source.

chris
09-19-2008, 07:20 AM
I see it as an opportunity to give someone a helping hand up

If you're poor you should provide the same percentage of income that someone with a billion dollars in the bank does?

YES!!!!!

Mecca
09-19-2008, 07:23 AM
YES!!!!!

Really well this guy here who has a billion dollars disagrees with you...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 07:24 AM
YES!!!!!


NO!!!!!!!!


25% of a dollar is gonna impact someone a ton more than 25% of a million dollars.

Mecca
09-19-2008, 07:26 AM
NO!!!!!!!!


25% of a dollar is gonna impact someone a ton more than 25% of a million dollars.

Just so you know in that vid up there Warren Buffet, one of the richest guys in the world says he should be taxed more and it isn't right that his tax rate is lower than employees of his.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 07:27 AM
Really well this guy here who has a billion dollars disagrees with you...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
LOL
If all billionaires were like Warren Buffet....:cuss:

btw, is it me or does every time tom brokaw speaks does he sound like he's exhaling a hit off a joint?

chris
09-19-2008, 07:28 AM
Really well this guy here who has a billion dollars disagrees with you...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3z_UrOKtjHk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Here we go again, all those in favor of a flat tax vs. those who do not want to carry their fair share.

I should have kept my fingers still and not responded....but when I read about how wealth distribution via taxation is morally OK, I waste my time by responding.

I'm off to work to make more money that Obama wants to take away. :(

Mecca
09-19-2008, 07:29 AM
Here we go again, all those in favor of a flat tax vs. those who do not want to carry their fair share.

I should have kept my fingers still and not responded....but when I read about how wealth distribution via taxation is morally OK, I waste my time by responding.

I'm off to work to make more money that Obama wants to take away. :(

All you're basically saying is you are cool with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer while the middle struggles....even a guy with billions gets it.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 07:30 AM
Here we go again, all those in favor of a flat tax vs. those who do not want to carry their fair share.

I should have kept my fingers still and not responded....but when I read about how wealth distribution via taxation is morally OK, I waste my time by responding.

I'm off to work to make more money that Obama wants to take away. :(
It's not wealth distribution, it's spreading the hardship.


Have a great day at work!!!!!!!

chris
09-19-2008, 07:33 AM
NO!!!!!!!!


25% of a dollar is gonna impact someone a ton more than 25% of a million dollars.

So go make more dollars!!

By today's logic......if I go work my butt off, take risks, and make more money than someone who wouldn't....I must support those that wouldn't??

Like I said several times before, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. :)

chris
09-19-2008, 07:37 AM
All you're basically saying is you are cool with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer while the middle struggles....even a guy with billions gets it.

No, what I'm saying...if someone isn't making enough money, go out and earn or create it. Quit expecting someone else to support your lifestyle via reduced taxes.

Thats all.

Mecca
09-19-2008, 07:37 AM
So go make more dollars!!

By today's logic......if I go work my butt off, take risks, and make money than someone who wouldn't....I must support those that wouldn't??

Like I said several times before, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. :)

That right there is part of the reason why alot of people don't have healthcare...."I'll just think about myself, **** everyone else"

Mecca
09-19-2008, 07:38 AM
No, what I'm saying...if someone isn't making enough money, go out and earn or create it. Quit expecting someone else to support your lifestyle via reduced taxes.

Thats all.

I'd love for you to tell me how a person who works at a shitty job to create some more money, you can't force a good paying job to hire you when most of them are getting rid of employees and not hiring them.

Sometimes I don't think some people have a grasp on what's really going on.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 07:39 AM
So go make more dollars!!

By today's logic......if I go work my butt off, take risks, and make money than someone who wouldn't....I must support those that wouldn't??

Like I said several times before, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. :)


Wow.

Just wow.:shake:

chris
09-19-2008, 07:45 AM
I'd love for you to tell me how a person who works at a shitty job to create some more money, you can't force a good paying job to hire you when most of them are getting rid of employees and not hiring them.

Sometimes I don't think some people have a grasp on what's really going on.

So start working on your own business at night, build it to the point where you can quit that job!!!!

It's not hard. Our society needs to quit expecting someone else to take care of you.

chris
09-19-2008, 07:47 AM
That right there is part of the reason why alot of people don't have healthcare...."I'll just think about myself, **** everyone else"


I think we SHOULD have national healthcare...increase the flat tax to cover.

KCJohnny
09-19-2008, 08:14 AM
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Mecca
09-19-2008, 08:16 AM
So start working on your own business at night, build it to the point where you can quit that job!!!!

It's not hard. Our society needs to quit expecting someone else to take care of you.

So we're just a nation of whiners eh, ok John McCain.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 08:43 AM
Just so you know in that vid up there Warren Buffet, one of the richest guys in the world says he should be taxed more and it isn't right that his tax rate is lower than employees of his.

You tell Warren that he is free to pay more taxes anytime he wants to.

chris
09-19-2008, 08:47 AM
So we're just a nation of whiners eh, ok John McCain.

Very quiet "whiners" :) ....willing to vote into power anyone who promises to put the tax burden on someone else.

So would you pay your fair share thru a flat tax??? If no, why not?

Mecca
09-19-2008, 08:48 AM
Very quiet "whiners" :) ....willing to vote into power anyone who promises to put the tax burden on someone else.

So would you pay your fair share thru a flat tax??? If no, why not?

Did you watch the video?

I don't think it's fair to pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than someone who makes 4 times as much money.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 08:49 AM
I'd love for you to tell me how a person who works at a shitty job to create some more money, you can't force a good paying job to hire you when most of them are getting rid of employees and not hiring them.

Sometimes I don't think some people have a grasp on what's really going on.

Get a second job?

I'm confident that there are a bunch of people out there who don't have a grasp on what's really going on. They're the ones who think they can fix the poor by voting their way into the pockets of the productive.

Mecca
09-19-2008, 08:50 AM
Get a second job?

I'm confident that there are a bunch of people out there who don't have a grasp on what's really going on. They're the ones who think they can fix the poor by voting their way into the pockets of the productive.

Yes people are going to work 2 jobs when alot of people can't even get 1....

chris
09-19-2008, 08:51 AM
Get a second job?

I'm confident that there are a bunch of people out there who don't have a grasp on what's really going on. They're the ones who think they can fix the poor by voting their way into the pockets of the productive.


well said!!!! (Wish I knew the clapping icon)

patteeu
09-19-2008, 08:52 AM
Did you watch the video?

I don't think it's fair to pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than someone who makes 4 times as much money.

If you quit working (or start working the black market like a panhandler) and invest all your savings into tax free municipal bonds, you can reduce your tax rate to zero.

Mecca
09-19-2008, 08:53 AM
So let me get this right, people should now work 2 shitty jobs, so they can never see their family while still being at best in the middle classed and getting hosed by taxes.....yes once again poor people brought it upon themselves, I think that should be the Republican slogan.

chris
09-19-2008, 08:53 AM
Yes people are going to work 2 jobs when alot of people can't even get 1....

Wrong O!

Open the classified ads; there are lots of jobs out there. Except a lot of people think they are too good for them.

OK, I've got to stop for now; back to the salt mine.

chris
09-19-2008, 08:55 AM
So let me get this right, people should now work 2 shitty jobs, so they can never see their family while still being at best in the middle classed and getting hosed by taxes.....yes once again poor people brought it upon themselves, I think that should be the Republican slogan.

So they work one job, bitch about being poor, look for government handouts????

BTW, do you think USC can beat OU on a neutral field?

KCJohnny
09-19-2008, 08:57 AM
So let me get this right, people should now work 2 shitty jobs, so they can never see their family while still being at best in the middle classed and getting hosed by taxes.....yes once again poor people brought it upon themselves, I think that should be the Republican slogan.

Apparently you don't live near a Korean, Vietnamese or Indian run local business.

Its OK.
You'll be working for them soon.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 09:13 AM
Yes people are going to work 2 jobs when alot of people can't even get 1....

Please. The job market isn't that tight. You're too young to remember really tight job markets, I guess. It's a testament to the prosperity that Reagan brought us and that subsequent presidents have managed to keep going, more or less.

Here are some unemployment numbers to give you a little perspective:

Missouri (http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm)
Aug 08 6.6%
High 10.5% (Apr 83)
Low 2.6% (Jan 00)

Kansas (http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm)
Aug 08 4.7%
High 7.4% (Sept 82)
Low 2.9% (Oct 78)

US (http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp)
Aug 08 6.1%
High 10.8% (Nov/Dec 82)
Low 2.5% (Jun 53)

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 09:20 AM
If you quit working (or start working the black market like a panhandler) and invest all your savings into tax free municipal bonds, you can reduce your tax rate to zero.

ROFL

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 09:20 AM
Please. The job market isn't that tight. You're too young to remember really tight job markets, I guess. It's a testament to the prosperity that Reagan brought us and that subsequent presidents have managed to keep going, more or less.

Here are some unemployment numbers to give you a little perspective:

Missouri (http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm)
Aug 08 6.6%
High 10.5% (Apr 83)
Low 2.6% (Jan 00)

Kansas (http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm)
Aug 08 4.7%
High 7.4% (Sept 82)
Low 2.9% (Oct 78)

US (http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp)
Aug 08 6.1%
High 10.8% (Nov/Dec 82)
Low 2.5% (Jun 53)

It ain't that great either

Programmer
09-19-2008, 09:33 AM
So go make more dollars!!

By today's logic......if I go work my butt off, take risks, and make more money than someone who wouldn't....I must support those that wouldn't??

Like I said several times before, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. :)


Fair Tax (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer) would be better.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 09:34 AM
Fair Tax (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer) would be better.

Honestly I kinda like the premise of fair tax.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 09:40 AM
It ain't that great either

True, it's not great. If you look at the distribution in the data on those two pages, you'll see that it's a pretty typical level of unemployment historically speaking.

J Diddy
09-19-2008, 09:43 AM
True, it's not great. If you look at the distribution in the data on those two pages, you'll see that it's a pretty typical level of unemployment historically speaking.

The next question would be about the quality of those jobs available.