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View Full Version : Elections What would it take for you to vote for an independent this November?


Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 06:58 PM
Everyone pretty much knows where I stand. How about you? What would it REALLY take for you to buck the norm?

Baby Lee
09-19-2008, 07:06 PM
A chance they'd win?

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:07 PM
A chance they'd win?

Impossible. Mainstream media would never allow it. Look what they did to Ron Paul.

Silock
09-19-2008, 07:08 PM
Nothing. Already going to.

As for the "a chance they'd win," how can you ever expect to change the ridiculous 2 party system we have if you don't show the 3rd party candidates that you're willing to throw votes their way?

As it is, the two candidates are forced to shoulder the extremist views of the assholes on both sides in order to get their votes. That wouldn't happen if there were more options.

Hell, I remember back when this whole thing started and most die-hard Republicans were pissed about McCain being selected because he was too moderate.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:09 PM
A chance they'd win?

Kinda where I'm at.

I'd love to go 3rd party or independent but I'd rather not get stuck with McCain/Palin.

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:11 PM
Kinda where I'm at.

I'd love to go 3rd party or independent but I'd rather not get stuck with McCain/Palin.

I honestly feel like the majority of people do exactly this. How depressing is it that you vote for someone out of fear of the other?

Baby Lee
09-19-2008, 07:12 PM
Impossible. Mainstream media would never allow it. Look what they did to Ron Paul.

Media didn't do a damn thing to Ron Paul.

Ask people their opinion of him, they've either never heard of him, or have formed their OWN opinions [good, bad or indifferent] of the words straight from his mouth.

Get back to me when the 'Ron Paul's a Muslim' or 'Ron Paul is the actual father of his daughter's baby' or 'Ron Paul, Manchurian Candidate?' memes start circulating.

Mr. Kotter
09-19-2008, 07:14 PM
Bob Barr's VP:

Or someone similar....heh. ;)

:shrug:

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:15 PM
Media didn't do a damn thing to Ron Paul.

Ask people their opinion of him, they've either never heard of him, or have formed their OWN opinions [good, bad or indifferent] of the words straight from his mouth.

Get back to me when the 'Ron Paul's a Muslim' or 'Ron Paul is the actual father of his daughter's baby' or 'Ron Paul, Manchurian Candidate?' memes start circulating.

No, no, no. I'm sorry for even bringing it up. I don't want this to be a Ron Paul thread. I'd be willing to discuss it but not in this thread.

Hydrae
09-19-2008, 07:15 PM
Everyone pretty much knows where I stand. How about you? What would it REALLY take for you to buck the norm?

I am paying little to no attention to the crap that passes for a presidential race. I am writing in Ron Paul and voting FOR someone instead of against someone this time. The other two can be discovered to be gayer than J. Edgar for all I care.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:18 PM
I honestly feel like the majority of people do exactly this. How depressing is it that you vote for someone out of fear of the other?

If you could convince me that the bulk of the electorate had the gonads to pull something like that, I'd be in there in a heart beat.

It's just not there and seems more like a waste. Not as much of a waste as not voting, but a waste nonetheless.

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:19 PM
I am paying little to no attention to the crap that passes for a presidential race. I am writing in Ron Paul and voting FOR someone instead of against someone this time. The other two can be discovered to be gayer than J. Edgar for all I care.

I am too. I've loathed both political parties long enough to stop indulging in it all together. Well, on a local level they can claim whatever affiliation they choose, it's an entirely different ballgame and I vote based on issues alone. That's just me though.

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:20 PM
If you could convince me that the bulk of the electorate had the gonads to pull something like that, I'd be in there in a heart beat.

It's just not there and seems more like a waste. Not as much of a waste as not voting, but a waste nonetheless.

How does it ever change if this is the mentality? And we are sincerely being raped day after day, year after year, and generation after generation. And we willingly line up to do it. I don't have an answer but just doing what we've been doing in the polls for the last 7 decades is not going to do anything.

memyselfI
09-19-2008, 07:24 PM
The Democratic party nominating the least qualified, tested, or experienced candidate available to them to choose from.

Republican isn't an option.

***SPRAYER
09-19-2008, 07:25 PM
Impossible. Mainstream media would never allow it. Look what they did to Ron Paul.


And if "mainstream media" did "allow it", Ron Paul would wind up being the same bought and paid for crap we have now.

Don't kid yourself.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:27 PM
How does it ever change if this is the mentality? And we are sincerely being raped day after day, year after year, and generation after generation. And we willingly line up to do it. I don't have an answer but just doing what we've been doing in the polls for the last 7 decades is not going to do anything.

I know, I've often asked the same question.

The problem is that I fear it already has it's answer: it won't.

If elections prove nothing else, it's that the electorate isn't interested in the issues. And for people to vote third party, they have to focus on the issues and the best way to tackle them. Not the black and white only.

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:29 PM
And if "mainstream media" did "allow it", Ron Paul would wind up being the same bought and paid for crap we have now.

Don't kid yourself.

Could well be. Really though, this isn't about finding a messiah. It's about sending a message. Once that message is received by every American. Change will breed itself. Good, bad, or ugly, right now, we just need something different.

Silock
09-19-2008, 07:31 PM
Could well be. Really though, this isn't about finding a messiah. It's about sending a message. Once that message is received by every American. Change will breed itself. Good, bad, or ugly, right now, we just need something different.

Yup.

America is mostly centrist. The extremists on both sides are simply a vocal minority that people follow along with because they don't believe they have a choice.

Even 10% of the total vote going to 3rd parties sends a message, especially to whoever loses in the November.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:32 PM
Yup.

America is mostly centrist. The extremists on both sides are simply a vocal minority that people follow along with because they don't believe they have a choice.

Even 10% of the total vote going to 3rd parties sends a message, especially to whoever loses in the November.

I think if Palin wasn't the VP of the Republican ticket, I'd vote independent.

***SPRAYER
09-19-2008, 07:35 PM
Could well be. Really though, this isn't about finding a messiah. It's about sending a message. Once that message is received by every American. Change will breed itself. Good, bad, or ugly, right now, we just need something different.


Dude, you realize that only 1 out of every 7 congressional districts in America is competitive?

Baby Lee
09-19-2008, 07:39 PM
How does it ever change if this is the mentality? And we are sincerely being raped day after day, year after year, and generation after generation. And we willingly line up to do it. I don't have an answer but just doing what we've been doing in the polls for the last 7 decades is not going to do anything.

Problem is, you taken as fact your view that what we're getting from government is an intergenerational raping. I don't know your particular views, but I'd wager that, were they laid out, we could muster a sizabe contingent that is equally passionately convinced that YOUR positions would rape us.
We have a two party system largely because there are two visions of this country that imperfectly align on certain axes, and the muddling centrist concessions are a function of trying to wean enough of the undecided among us to secure victory.
To think there's another approach that no one has sufficiently broadcast that will reach a general consensus is foolhardy

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 07:43 PM
Dude, you realize that only 1 out of every 7 congressional districts in America is competitive?

Why do you suppose that is?

patteeu
09-19-2008, 07:46 PM
If John McCain gave me reason to believe he couldn't be trusted with the GWoT, or if Obama gave me reason to believe he could be trusted, it would be a lot easier to vote 3rd party for me. As it is, foreign policy and SCOTUS appointments are too important for me to risk helping the dems win the WH.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:47 PM
If John McCain gave me reason to believe he couldn't be trusted with the GWoT, or if Obama gave me reason to believe he could be trusted, it would be a lot easier to vote 3rd party for me. As it is, foreign policy and SCOTUS appointments are too important for me to risk helping the dems win the WH.

:spock:

If Obama gave you a reason he could be trusted, you'd vote 3rd party?

Baby Lee
09-19-2008, 07:53 PM
:spock:

If Obama gave you a reason he could be trusted, you'd vote 3rd party?

What? He's saying if he weren't so concerned about Obama in office, he'd have the freedom to voice his support for another approach than the big two. Kind of the point of this whole thread.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 07:54 PM
What? He's saying if he weren't so concerned about Obama in office, he'd have the freedom to voice his support for another approach than the big two. Kind of the point of this whole thread.

That's not how it reads to me.

He says he'd vote third party if McCain couldn't be trusted on the GWoT and if Obama COULD be trusted.

Therefore, I don't follow him unless he's super R all the way.

***SPRAYER
09-19-2008, 07:55 PM
Why do you suppose that is?

Gerrymandering.

patteeu
09-19-2008, 07:56 PM
:spock:

If Obama gave you a reason he could be trusted, you'd vote 3rd party?

It would make it easier for me to consider voting 3rd party. I voted against Bush in 2000 (voted libertarian) and I liked Bush more than I like McCain. If the stakes were as low now as they appeared to be then, I doubt I'd vote McCain.

Silock
09-19-2008, 08:07 PM
I think if Palin wasn't the VP of the Republican ticket, I'd vote independent.

Heh, I think if Palin weren't on the ticket, I'd actually be considering a vote for McCain instead of an independent lol

That's a bit unexpected.

Silock
09-19-2008, 08:07 PM
Dude, you realize that only 1 out of every 7 congressional districts in America is competitive?

Winner take all FTL.

Logical
09-19-2008, 08:18 PM
What would it take for me to vote Indy.

The belief it would not support McCain/Palin getting elected.

Logical
09-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Bob Barr's VP:

Or someone similar....heh. ;)

:shrug:
You sexist pig, where is Tom to ridicule for your sexism.:evil:

penchief
09-19-2008, 08:44 PM
A chance they'd win?

That's really the only way I could see doing it.

Sully
09-19-2008, 09:01 PM
Even if someone I agreed on in all possible areas of politics were running 3rd party... like a clone of me...I'd still have trouble voting 3rd party (unless a liberal was pretty much assured of winning my state). I'd work my ass off to get that candidate exposure and get his or her message out... but ultimately I'd have to vote for the closest thing to what I believed in... that still had a chance to win.

Guru
09-19-2008, 09:38 PM
We have already seen a 3rd party candidate pull 20% and no changes were made.

If there were an actual concerted effort to get a 3rd party candidate elected I would be all over it. We are nowhere close to that right now.

Der Flöprer
09-19-2008, 10:17 PM
Media didn't do a damn thing to Ron Paul.

Ask people their opinion of him, they've either never heard of him, or have formed their OWN opinions [good, bad or indifferent] of the words straight from his mouth.

Get back to me when the 'Ron Paul's a Muslim' or 'Ron Paul is the actual father of his daughter's baby' or 'Ron Paul, Manchurian Candidate?' memes start circulating.

I think most everyone who would respond on this thread has done so. I don't think 5% of the population has 1 clue about Ron Paul's ideals, or what his plans would be as POTUS. The guy was grossly unrepresented in the media. The Republicans wouldn't even let him play. Period. The only thing the majority of Americans based their opinions on IMO was the "crackpot" label his followers got on the internet. All the guy talks about is fiscal responsibility, a truly free market, no federal income tax, and following our constitution more closely. What's not to love?

RJ
09-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Well, it sounds like just about everyone in this thread would vote independent except that, a) the bad guy will get elected, or b) their vote would be wasted. Personally, I don't see an indy candidate out there who I would vote for over Obama. I believe if he's elected he'll make a damn fine POTUS and I'll be proud to give him my vote.

FWIW, though, I'd rather have a 3rd party to choose from. I believe the current system is generally corrupt and the D's and R's have far more in common with each other than they do with us. Another party would go a long way toward keeping things honest.

irishjayhawk
09-19-2008, 10:32 PM
It would make it easier for me to consider voting 3rd party. I voted against Bush in 2000 (voted libertarian) and I liked Bush more than I like McCain. If the stakes were as low now as they appeared to be then, I doubt I'd vote McCain.

I don't understand though. If Obama could be trusted on the GWOT, wouldn't you want him as president?

I don't see how him being trusted has to do with you NOT voting for him.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2008, 10:52 PM
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tiptap
09-19-2008, 11:13 PM
I am not interested in voting for a third party at the national level until they have representation in Congress. I do look for third party (Green) to vote for.

Silock
09-20-2008, 12:24 AM
I think most everyone who would respond on this thread has done so. I don't think 5% of the population has 1 clue about Ron Paul's ideals, or what his plans would be as POTUS. The guy was grossly unrepresented in the media. The Republicans wouldn't even let him play. Period. The only thing the majority of Americans based their opinions on IMO was the "crackpot" label his followers got on the internet. All the guy talks about is fiscal responsibility, a truly free market, no federal income tax, and following our constitution more closely. What's not to love?

We should take a page from the French on this matter. They have a law that mandates all media give equal coverage to each candidate.

That's a damn good idea.

Mr Luzcious
09-20-2008, 12:32 AM
I'm already going to.

Velvet_Jones
09-20-2008, 12:39 AM
2 dead presidential candidates and 2 dead vice presidential candidates. In other words nothing.

BucEyedPea
09-20-2008, 12:50 AM
Yup.

America is mostly centrist. The extremists on both sides are simply a vocal minority that people follow along with because they don't believe they have a choice.

Even 10% of the total vote going to 3rd parties sends a message, especially to whoever loses in the November.

If they win just a plurality with a good 3p showing it will show no mandate has been won. That's a good message.

InChiefsHell
09-20-2008, 01:12 AM
Kinda where I'm at.

I'd love to go 3rd party or independent but I'd rather not get stuck with McCain/Palin.

Ditto for me except I'd rather not get stuck with Obama\Biden...

...how 'bout we all just drink alot?? :thumb:

Der Flöprer
09-20-2008, 02:25 AM
NSFW


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BigMeatballDave
09-20-2008, 06:21 AM
Kinda where I'm at.

I'd love to go 3rd party or independent but I'd rather not get stuck with Obama/Biden.FYP

patteeu
09-20-2008, 08:29 AM
I think most everyone who would respond on this thread has done so. I don't think 5% of the population has 1 clue about Ron Paul's ideals, or what his plans would be as POTUS. The guy was grossly unrepresented in the media. The Republicans wouldn't even let him play. Period. The only thing the majority of Americans based their opinions on IMO was the "crackpot" label his followers got on the internet. All the guy talks about is fiscal responsibility, a truly free market, no federal income tax, and following our constitution more closely. What's not to love?

His insane foreign policy.

Amnorix
09-20-2008, 08:39 AM
1. a realistic chance they would win

2. to more closely align to my positions than the candidates of the other parties.

patteeu
09-20-2008, 08:39 AM
I don't understand though. If Obama could be trusted on the GWOT, wouldn't you want him as president?

I don't see how him being trusted has to do with you NOT voting for him.

There are a lot of things I don't like about Obama besides what I think he'd do in the GWoT.

If Obama *could* be trusted on the GWoT, then the consequences of his election wouldn't be so bad (even though they'd still be very bad IMO) so I could safely vote 3rd party knowing that the worst likely outcome would be an Obama presidency. We'd have to endure at least 4 years of domestic socialism, which would suck, but that wouldn't be the kind of long term damage that I think quitting in Iraq or an appeasement approach to world affairs would be.

The only reason I'd consider voting 3rd party if Obama wasn't so bad on the GWoT is because I'm not convinced that McCain will be that much better domestically. If I'm forced to choose between McCain and an Obama who mirrors McCain's views on the GWoT, I'm still choosing McCain though.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2008, 09:41 AM
We should take a page from the French on this matter. They have a law that mandates all media give equal coverage to each candidate.

That's a damn good idea.

Oh, you mean like we had up unitl the 1980's that Reagan's FCC chair redacted?