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jAZ
09-20-2008, 11:06 PM
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Logical
09-20-2008, 11:09 PM
I think that is a great commercial, it would be better if it had the Obama camps seal of approval. I am afraid they don't have the guts to run such a strong ad.

banyon
09-20-2008, 11:10 PM
"I did everything I could to get him elected and reelected".

That stings.

But overall, it's just another sad sniping ad in this bitter contest.

HolmeZz
09-20-2008, 11:33 PM
That's the best ad I've seen this election cycle.

irishjayhawk
09-21-2008, 12:34 AM
"I did everything I could to get him elected and reelected".

That stings.

But overall, it's just another sad sniping ad in this bitter contest.

Would you consider that a "negative ad"?

banyon
09-21-2008, 12:35 AM
Would you consider that a "negative ad"?

Absolutely, it even has the disapproving deep voice guy sneer lines.

irishjayhawk
09-21-2008, 12:37 AM
Absolutely, it even has the disapproving deep voice guy sneer lines.

See, I'm starting to wonder what are and aren't negative ads anymore.

ROYC75
09-21-2008, 02:05 AM
See, I'm starting to wonder what are and aren't negative ads anymore.

Just about any ad now a day is, if you mention the other person in any way, it's considered negative smear.

I was watching CNN today, it claimed this and said since the conventions,Obama has ran 63% negative ads while McCain has ran 56% negative ads. They also said that Obama has out spent McCain in TV ads.

They said that this trend will get worst in the coming days and weeks.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 02:14 AM
It's considered a negative "smear" if it's patently false or improper.

That's much different than just a negative accusation.

Ultra Peanut
09-21-2008, 02:24 AM
I think that is a great commercial, it would be better if it had the Obama camps seal of approval. I am afraid they don't have the guts to run such a strong ad.It's not about guts. It's about muddying the message.

BigMeatballDave
09-21-2008, 07:48 AM
Funny. As much as McCain sucks, he still has good shot at beating your Messiah...

BucEyedPea
09-21-2008, 07:56 AM
That is an awesome commercial.

Is that just a You Tube or one that will be on TV?

I found the Paul YouTube's to be much better than his TV commercials.

I think the restriction on free speech has something to do with such differences in hard hitting statements.

Baby Lee
09-21-2008, 08:07 AM
See, I'm starting to wonder what are and aren't negative ads anymore.

Jesus, what is so hard?

Non-negative - These are the good things I will do. These are the positive qualities I have displayed

Negative - This is why my opponent is unqualified. These are the mistakes my opponent has made. These are the shady connections my opponent has.

jAZ
09-21-2008, 08:30 AM
Jesus, what is so hard?

Non-negative - These are the good things I will do. These are the positive qualities I have displayed

Negative - This is why my opponent is unqualified. These are the mistakes my opponent has made. These are the shady connections my opponent has.

What is "These are the things that my opponent has said and done"?

Baby Lee
09-21-2008, 08:33 AM
What is "These are the things that my opponent has said and done"?

Yeah, that's the innocent message in "John McCain broke Washington, can you really trust him?"

Guru
09-21-2008, 08:36 AM
Both sides need to stop this shit. You would be surprised how may Americans hate this shit. I don't care who started it either as I have no idea. They still are both doing it and it is grade schoolish.

Programmer
09-21-2008, 08:46 AM
Both sides need to stop this shit. You would be surprised how may Americans hate this shit. I don't care who started it either as I have no idea. They still are both doing it and it is grade schoolish.

I agree, but if you look at the posts on just this one political board you will see that it's the basic way the D's and R's react to each other.

It's nothing more than a form of hatred for anyone that believes differently than you do.

Politics
Religion
Football
etc.

People tend to follow the worst examples they can find to argue their point.

jAZ
09-21-2008, 08:54 AM
Yeah, that's the innocent message in "John McCain broke Washington, can you really trust him?"

That's not what I said, I'm not speaking of this or any previous ad. To IJH's point, I'm asking where that falls in your mind.

J Diddy
09-21-2008, 08:55 AM
I agree, but if you look at the posts on just this one political board you will see that it's the basic way the D's and R's react to each other.

It's nothing more than a form of hatred for anyone that believes differently than you do.

Politics
Religion
Football
etc.

People tend to follow the worst examples they can find to argue their point.

You agree? Please.

jAZ
09-21-2008, 08:56 AM
Both sides need to stop this shit. You would be surprised how may Americans hate this shit. I don't care who started it either as I have no idea. They still are both doing it and it is grade schoolish.

Where were you with the "both sides must stop" when McCain went from negative to nasty? Sitting on the sidelines waiting for a similarly effective Obama ad to pull the "both sides" card, letting McCain get away with it?

banyon
09-21-2008, 09:09 AM
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irishjayhawk
09-21-2008, 10:03 AM
Jesus, what is so hard?

Non-negative - These are the good things I will do. These are the positive qualities I have displayed

Negative - This is why my opponent is unqualified. These are the mistakes my opponent has made. These are the shady connections my opponent has.

I get the basics.

But now it's more complicated. If the narrator has a deep voice, it's negative. If the ad quotes the other candidate, it's a negative ad.

I'm just wondering where the line is. Can you actually talk about why the other guy is bad without being negative? It appears not.

Baby Lee
09-21-2008, 10:07 AM
I get the basics.

But now it's more complicated. If the narrator has a deep voice, it's negative. If the ad quotes the other candidate, it's a negative ad.

I'm just wondering where the line is. Can you actually talk about why the other guy is bad without being negative? It appears not.

Trying to wrap my head around the possibility of a candidate spending campaign funds to present his opposition in a positive light.

Maybe you guys are just hung up on negative=bad. Negative is bad when it blows things out of proportion. [Deep Voice]McCain shook Bush's hand and smiled at him[DV] dun-duhn-duhhhhnnnn!!!!
Negative is appropriate when it forthrightly points out differences in approach.

irishjayhawk
09-21-2008, 10:09 AM
Trying to wrap my head around the possibility of a candidate spending campaign funds to present his opposition in a positive light.

Maybe you guys are just hung up on negative=bad. Negative is bad when it blows things out of proportion. [Deep Voice]McCain shook Bush's hand and smiled at him[DV] dun-duhn-duhhhhnnnn!!!!
Negative is appropriate when it forthrightly points out differences in approach.

And that's my point.

I don't understand where the line is. Either for "negative" or for "bad". It's even more important this year because Obama was trying to change that landscape. I think all he really succeeded in doing is create an atmosphere where you can barely talk about your opponent lest it be deemed a negative and therefore bad ad.

VAChief
09-21-2008, 10:10 AM
Unfortunately, unless you are willing to mix it up and "punch" back once your opponent goes negative and distorts your message you are probably going to lose. Especially if the foundation of their platform (reformers, mavericks) and the statements they make about them are in Rove's words "less than 100% truthful."

It is kind of like trying to win the Super Bowl running the "Wing T."

jAZ
09-21-2008, 10:26 AM
And that's my point.

I don't understand where the line is. Either for "negative" or for "bad". It's even more important this year because Obama was trying to change that landscape. I think all he really succeeded in doing is create an atmosphere where you can barely talk about your opponent lest it be deemed a negative and therefore bad ad.

Clearly he's only created that environment for himself.

But the reality is that he's never said he wouldn't use negative commericials... saying so would be irresponsible. If either candidate were to lie during this campaign, the other needs to expose the lies. That can be done without suggesting the other isn't patriotic or other such broad, personal attacks.

It's really a difference of presenting real facts that are negative vs what they call the "politics of personal destruction".

Ultra Peanut
09-21-2008, 03:34 PM
Both sides need to stop this shit. You would be surprised how may Americans hate this shit. I don't care who started it either as I have no idea. They still are both doing it and it is grade schoolish.Obama had nothing to do with this ad. As opposed to the "Obama's gonna teach your toddler about dirty sanchezes" commercial directly from Camp McCain.

Guru
09-22-2008, 07:08 AM
Where were you with the "both sides must stop" when McCain went from negative to nasty? Sitting on the sidelines waiting for a similarly effective Obama ad to pull the "both sides" card, letting McCain get away with it?
Did you read the part where I said I don't give a shit who started it? Obviously not. Continue acting like school children though.

Have you also forgotten that I am not a McCain supporter any more than I am an Obama supporter. My vote this year is ONLY to vote against Obama. If that means I have to vote for McCain then so be it. I know the meaning behind my vote and that is all that matters to me.

Mecca
09-22-2008, 07:13 AM
Did you read the part where I said I don't give a shit who started it? Obviously not. Continue acting like school children though.

Have you also forgotten that I am not a McCain supporter any more than I am an Obama supporter. My vote this year is ONLY to vote against Obama. If that means I have to vote for McCain then so be it. I know the meaning behind my vote and that is all that matters to me.

Dukakis thought he was above it all and guess what he lost....if you refuse to hit back the people think you're a pussy....

Guru
09-22-2008, 07:16 AM
Dukakis thought he was above it all and guess what he lost....if you refuse to hit back the people think you're a pussy....

Not saying I don't understand it. Just saying I, as well as millions of Americans are sick of it. somebody needs to start standing up and ignoring it then it will stop. Obama keeps saying he is above it lately and he keeps doing it. Way to distort your message. McCain said he was above it from the get go and he keeps doing it.l Way to distort your message.

And I still don't give a shit who started it don't bring it up. You know who you are. I am not referring to you here Mecca.

Oh, and for the record....
Dukakis has ZERO chance anyway.

Mecca
09-22-2008, 07:18 AM
I knew it was coming.....the Republicans can't win on the issues here so McCain unleashed his month that would have made Karl Rove blush so Obama returned the favor, this will likely get even uglier.

Guru
09-22-2008, 07:25 AM
I knew it was coming.....the Republicans can't win on the issues here so McCain unleashed his month that would have made Karl Rove blush so Obama returned the favor, this will likely get even uglier.
Its always inevitable. I am just waiting for a politician to not be baited by it.

Mecca
09-22-2008, 07:27 AM
Its always inevitable. I am just waiting for a politician to not be baited by it.

Yes but what are they suppose to do? As McCain got more negative and Obama didn't do it back McCain gained ground in the numbers....Obama didn't start coming back till he returned the favor.

People say they don't like it then numbers show the opposite.

Guru
09-22-2008, 07:29 AM
Yes but what are they suppose to do? As McCain got more negative and Obama didn't do it back McCain gained ground in the numbers....Obama didn't start coming back till he returned the favor.

People say they don't like it then numbers show the opposite.

So screw the people that don't like it?

denounce the negative ads rather than responding to them. At least the public will hear the denouncement. Then those of us that hate the shit might actually listen. It doesn't have to be tit for tat.

tiptap
09-22-2008, 08:06 AM
I like the dirty politics. I want more accusations. I want a verbal bloodbath. Obama sleeps with a black women. McCain cries when put in a small room.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 08:14 AM
See, I'm starting to wonder what are and aren't negative ads anymore.

Maybe it's a sign that you're starting to grow up, kiddo. :shrug:

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2008, 08:17 AM
Negative campaigning works because it is a simpler message to get across and most people are stupid.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 08:20 AM
It's considered a negative "smear" if it's patently false or improper.

That's much different than just a negative accusation.

Given the lack of agreement on what constitutes "patently false or improper", that definition doesn't really get us much closer to pinning this thing down.

IMO, every ad that mentions or alludes to the other candidate in any way other than completely positive (and why would a candidate do that?) is a negative ad. Where negative ads go from being a responsible and honest comparison of positions to deceptive smear is much harder to establish with any significant level of agreement. Hell, we here in DC can't even seem to agree very often when the candidates are using outright lies.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 08:30 AM
So screw the people that don't like it?

denounce the negative ads rather than responding to them. At least the public will hear the denouncement. Then those of us that hate the shit might actually listen. It doesn't have to be tit for tat.

Seriously, there aren't enough people like you who "hate the shit" to outvote the people influenced by "the shit".

It's admirable that you take the position that you're taking though. Look at all the Obama supporters who were gushing about their guy at least partly because he was talking about changing the way politics are played in Washington but who, now that he's betrayed that promise, continue to worship him as a new kind of politician who was just forced into the gutter by the bad man McCain. LMAO

tiptap
09-22-2008, 08:43 AM
Why is it admirable to take that position? Isn't it kind of smug? He isn't trying to win an office. But your comment about the blather for a candidate exists on the Republican side with Palin and her throng. She is running for President obviously. Thank heaven she has God's ear.

So we are looking for a voice that encapsulates our thoughts and gives hope to future. That may be the good part of the election. And since we are human the evil part comes right along with the jaundiced view of the opponent.

Guru
09-22-2008, 08:47 AM
Why is it admirable to take that position? Isn't it kind of smug? He isn't trying to win an office. But your comment about the blather for a candidate exists on the Republican side with Palin and her throng. She is running for President obviously. Thank heaven she has God's ear.

So we are looking for a voice that encapsulates our thoughts and gives hope to future. That may be the good part of the election. And since we are human the evil part comes right along with the jaundiced view of the opponent.
Smug that I expect better from a person that wants to be my president? Nice to see how far we have lowered our standards.

Pitt Gorilla
09-22-2008, 08:52 AM
Not saying I don't understand it. Just saying I, as well as millions of Americans are sick of it. somebody needs to start standing up and ignoring it then it will stop. Obama keeps saying he is above it lately and he keeps doing it. Way to distort your message. McCain said he was above it from the get go and he keeps doing it.l Way to distort your message.

And I still don't give a shit who started it don't bring it up. You know who you are. I am not referring to you here Mecca.

Oh, and for the record....
Dukakis has ZERO chance anyway.I don't like the negative ads, but this one doesn't seem as negative as many. It is basically a series of audio clips from McCain.

tiptap
09-22-2008, 09:17 AM
Smug that I expect better from a person that wants to be my president? Nice to see how far we have lowered our standards.

Yes when no one has won under your take. Point to that person. Let's see their win. And in politics it is all about compromise, at least in a Republic so it is good to have the whole of the argument both good and bad.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 09:20 AM
Yes when no one has won under your take. Point to that person. Let's see their win. And in politics it is all about compromise, at least in a Republic so it is good to have the whole of the argument both good and bad.

I tend to agree with you, but I still think Guru's position is admirable if not practical.

mlyonsd
09-22-2008, 09:26 AM
I don't like the negative ads, but this one doesn't seem as negative as many. It is basically a series of audio clips from McCain.

They must not be running the same Obama ads where you live as they do here.

jAZ
09-29-2008, 02:53 AM
I think that is a great commercial, it would be better if it had the Obama camps seal of approval. I am afraid they don't have the guts to run such a strong ad.

That's the best ad I've seen this election cycle.

That is an awesome commercial.

Is that just a You Tube or one that will be on TV?
Well, it looks like a couple of Repubilcans and "former McCain supporters who actively campaigned on his behalf " calling themselves "TruthAndHope.org" picked up on this video and have edited it down and are going to be running it wherever they can raise money to run it.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/28/114533/452?new=true

'Thank John McCain' TV AD - Final version going on the air this week
by TruthandHope
Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 09:17:41 AM PDT

The final edits have been done on our 'Thank John McCain' ad & the spot is accepted, so I am sharing that final version with you here. Again, this ad would not be going on the air, were it not for the dozens of emails I received from Kos members pointing me to the diary posted last Saturday morning which contained the original version of this piece. It was intended to be a youtube viral, now it has become a television ad.

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It was only a minor edit to bring this to broadcast quality & time. We're buying time in Colorado, and I would like to mix in another state for this week as well. I have a quote that we can run 1,200 ads in a week in Nevada for $17,000 - this would cover the entire state. I am waiting to hear on New Hampshire later this afternoon, as well as considering mixing in a small but in VA or PA. There are a lot of opinions on where we need to take the ads. In the end our budget decides what is possible, and working within the budget we look at the polling data, naturally in the most important swing states, compared to rate of return, i.e. how many impressions will he have in swing counties within those states & at what cost. The Nevada run is relatively inexpensive, but even in the larger states our per ad cost is an average of just over $40, so every contribution actually does go a long way.

jAZ
09-29-2008, 02:56 AM
Well, it looks like a couple of Repubilcans and "former McCain supporters who actively campaigned on his behalf "...
And I'm not making that part up.

http://news.findlaw.com/prnewswire/20080905/05sep20080745.html

Sep. 05, 2008 Print This | Email This

Two Former John McCain Supporters Create Television Ad Blitz to Set the 'Maverick's' Record Straight

IRVINE, Calif., Sept. 5 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Last night the GOP convention culminated in John McCain's acceptance of his party's nomination, ending a four-day effort to convince the American public that his Presidency is something other than a third Bush term and that he is still the maverick who ran for President in 2000, according to Eugene Hedlund and John K. Addis of TruthandHope.org PAC. Hedlund and Addis say Senator McCain is out of step with mainstream America, for while the nation has cried out for change, voicing disapproval of the Bush Administration in ever-increasing numbers, McCain has instead supported President Bush to a greater degree each passing year.

TruthandHope.org PAC has created a media campaign that with eloquent simplicity brings to the forefront these simple truths. Making this effort possible is the union of two former McCain supporters who actively campaigned on his behalf in 2000, but have found little to no resemblance to the McCain "straight-talking maverick" in the John McCain running for President today. This union of Hedlund, founder of TruthandHope.org, and Addis, graphic designer and creator of "The Public V John McCain" spot, lends a particular credibility to this effort.

TruthandHope.org PAC was founded in 2004 and aired independent grassroots television ads in support of Governor Dean and the Democratic Party's eventual nominee, Senator John Kerry. It raised nearly $500,000 for these efforts, and was credited by Governor Dean for his primary victory in Vermont, as he had suspended his campaign weeks earlier.

The first ad in a series titled "The Public V John McCain" became an instant Internet sensation when released in concept form. Within 24 hours the ad had over 200,000 YouTube hits and hit the front page of Digg.com with nearly 5,000 "diggs" as well as the front page on many prominent blogs across the country. Andrew Sullivan of TheAtlantic.com posted this concept ad on August 14, calling it "the most inspired yet." With this groundswell of support it was evidently clear that this message must be taken beyond the Internet and into the American public's homes. With this spot airing initially in Ohio and Virginia, early voting swing states, the effort begins to set the McCain record straight.

About Hedlund and Addis

Eugene Hedlund is a mortgage broker in Irvine, California who formed TruthandHope.org PAC in 2004. A lifelong Republican, he knew the country needed a change in 2004 and wished to do more than just cast a single vote and contribute monetarily. John K. Addis runs a web and graphic design studio in Lansing, Michigan, and has voted for the Republican Presidential candidate in every election. In recent years, however, Addis became increasingly disillusioned with the Republican party, discovering that Democrats were better at accomplishing fiscal responsibility and showing competence with foreign affairs.

Contact: Eugene Hedlund Direct: 949-472-4779 Email: eugene@truthandhope.org http://www.truthandhope.org/

This release was issued through eReleases(TM). For more information, visit http://www.ereleases.com.

TruthandHope.org PAC
CONTACT: Eugene Hedlund of TruthandHope.org PAC, +1-949-472-4779,
eugene@truthandhope.org

Web site: http://www.truthandhope.org/

Credit to them for being relatively transparent about their identity.

jAZ
09-29-2008, 03:11 AM
By the way, for anyone wanting to donate money to put this ad on the air...

http://www.truthandhope.org/donate.htm

They also have a 2nd ad that I think was posted here:

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