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View Full Version : Economics Does our economy have any more room for McCain's or Obama's tax cuts?


Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:23 PM
We're likely forking hundreds of billions over for the Bush administration to start some bizarre march towards socialism, as we buy out the shitty assets of irresponsible financing institutions.

Probably not the $700 billion, as that's the top-end number, but $500 billion is a more conservative and more likely guess.

With that being the case, isn't it true that the President taking office is taking the oath on a full count? Neither candidate has the room, by my meager calculations, to offer much in tax relief without further enmeshing us in trouble. Times are so tight, I don't think we can afford either candidates tax plan.

Really, we can't afford much of anything for a while. Perhaps Bush has discovered the best way to hamstring a future Obama administration is to stick him so deep in the red that he has to keep his liberal ambitions close-to-the-vest while he tries to climb us out of trouble.

Thoughts.

Edit: I'd like to add that prefixes are bullshit. DaFace needs to be shot in the balls.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 06:26 PM
Would you have rather seen the financial sector completely tank?

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:28 PM
Would you have rather seen the financial sector completely tank?

I'm going to give you as much time as you need to figure out the topic of this conversation, and once you do I invite you to return to this thread at any time.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 06:29 PM
Obama has no tax cuts, he will raise taxes.

Friendo
09-21-2008, 06:30 PM
Really, we can't afford much of anything for a while. Perhaps Bush has discovered the best way to hamstring a future Obama administration is to stick him so deep in the red that he has to keep his liberal ambitions close-to-the-vest while he tries to climb us out of trouble.



starve the beast-it geenious!

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:31 PM
Obama has no tax cuts, he will raise taxes.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/12/GR2008061200193.gif

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 06:33 PM
More spin...fact is simple that Obama will increase taxes. You and your idiot buddies fail to recognize taxes in total. Obama is going to crater any hope for economic growth.

Mr. Flopnuts
09-21-2008, 06:35 PM
More spin...fact is simple that Obama will increase taxes. You and your idiot buddies fail to recognize taxes in total. Obama is going to crater any hope for economic growth.

So you concede he's going to win?

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:36 PM
More spin...fact is simple that Obama will increase taxes. You and your idiot buddies fail to recognize taxes in total. Obama is going to crater any hope for economic growth.

It's not spin. That is the tax plan as described by both candidates' campaigns.

My idiot buddies and me understand total taxes, and the chart shows you that Obama still cuts them.

Show me the spin.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 06:37 PM
OK its not a spin, its a lie. Simple fact is that Obama wants to increase taxes. No one other than a few morons like you debate that fact.

Mr. Flopnuts
09-21-2008, 06:37 PM
It's not spin. That is the tax plan as described by both candidates' campaigns.

My idiot buddies and me understand total taxes, and the chart shows you that Obama still cuts them.

Show me the spin.

He wants all of those poor rich people to be able to keep more of their money. He doesn't make it, and never will, but those guys need their money. All of it.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:40 PM
OK its not a spin, its a lie. Simple fact is that Obama wants to increase taxes. No one other than a few morons like you debate that fact.

Where are you digging up all this evidence?

Provide me one decent link that isn't from Hot Air or some likeminded site and we can have a conversation.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 06:43 PM
You need a link to understand the proposals of the guy you support?

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 06:48 PM
You need a link to understand the proposals of the guy you support?

I need a link to understand your interpretation of the guy I support.

Provide me all this information that shows me everything I know about Obama's tax plan is a big fat lie. Make sure it's from reputable sources, and we'll talk.

Otherwise, log off and go play with your kids. It's Sunday afternoon, for god's sakes.

beer bacon
09-21-2008, 07:17 PM
HonestChieffan needs to be quarantined. What a ****ing stooge.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 07:19 PM
His own website is the best source of his tax increase plans.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 07:23 PM
His own website is the best source of his tax increase plans.

Link please to a singular specific example that exposes the chart I put up earlier is a lie.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 07:27 PM
The chart is incomplete and is designed to mislead. You know its a misleading and often used example that avoids the issue of Taxes and only focuses on income taxes and fails to deal with the impact of his roll back of the current tax cuts. You know its misleading. Dont try to pose otherwise.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 07:29 PM
The chart is incomplete and is designed to mislead. You know its a misleading and often used example that avoids the issue of Taxes and only focuses on income taxes and fails to deal with the impact of his roll back of the current tax cuts. You know its misleading. Dont try to pose otherwise.

Provide me a decent ****ing link and we'll talk.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 07:33 PM
You need a link? Are you incapable of independent thought and understanding?

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 07:35 PM
You need a link? Are you incapable of independent thought and understanding?

Simply saying things without any evidence to back it up isn't independent thought.

It's just saying things.

Logical
09-21-2008, 08:49 PM
We're likely forking hundreds of billions over for the Bush administration to start some bizarre march towards socialism, as we buy out the shitty assets of irresponsible financing institutions.

Probably not the $700 billion, as that's the top-end number, but $500 billion is a more conservative and more likely guess.

With that being the case, isn't it true that the President taking office is taking the oath on a full count? Neither candidate has the room, by my meager calculations, to offer much in tax relief without further enmeshing us in trouble. Times are so tight, I don't think we can afford either candidates tax plan.

Really, we can't afford much of anything for a while. Perhaps Bush has discovered the best way to hamstring a future Obama administration is to stick him so deep in the red that he has to keep his liberal ambitions close-to-the-vest while he tries to climb us out of trouble.

Thoughts.

Edit: I'd like to add that prefixes are bullshit. DaFace needs to be shot in the balls.

Add a trillion to it after we are all said and done and it will be more like it.

Edit lost something: Getting out of Iraq at 150 billion a year will help a bunch.

ROYC75
09-21-2008, 09:35 PM
Add a trillion to it after we are all said and done and it will be more like it.

Edit lost something: Getting out of Iraq at 300 billion a year will help a bunch.


Doesn't matter Jim, whatever we save when Iraq is done will be increased in either Afgh. or Pakistan. The war on terrorist will not stop, period, for the next 20 years.

Bottom line that nobody wants to hear is , raise taxes across the board. It sucks, but that is what is needed. Now keep in mind, Iraq owes us, time to pay the piper,either by free oil or cash, but any other country that needs our military help should have to pay up as well. Does anybody know if Kuwait ever paid up for our help in the 1st Gulf war ?

Again, it sucks, but raising taxes across the board is only logical because we need revenue, but it really goes against the economy, which is the democrats approach, but in light of the latest bail outs ......... what other choices we have ?

Raise income and sales taxes across the board ....... at least for awhile .

Keep corporate taxes and capital gains the same, we must increase jobs. Possibly impose some form of an additional profit tax if they make too much.

Do not raise small business taxes, we must keep that option of the American Dream alive to venture into your own business.

Cut spending where ever possible, maybe we can get lucky with the ME wars ?

Cut all Senators , Congressmen, Judges, WH and all political leaders salary 25 % ....... just because, greedy bastards. Cut some of their wasteful expenses.

Increase minimum wage 25 % ............

Deport all illegal immigrants ..... get them out of here or become American citizens and pay up.

There are several things the government can do to help make a change, too many for me to list right now ........ somehow we have to get the politicians off their ass's to do something about it.

Logical
09-21-2008, 09:40 PM
Doesn't matter Jim, whatever we save when Iraq is done will be increased in either Afgh. or Pakistan. The war on terrorist will not stop, period, for the next 20 years........ somehow we have to get the politicians off their ass's to do something about it.Fighting war against select targets is not as expensive as propping up an entire country. I agree on the need to raise taxes (probably back up to Clinton early year levels).

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:42 PM
Dems love tax increases. Always have, always will. Those who dont make enough to pay taxes love tax increases. So do laggards, handout takers, govt employees, and suppliers to govt.

go bowe
09-21-2008, 10:19 PM
Dems love tax increases. Always have, always will. Those who dont make enough to pay taxes love tax increases. So do laggards, handout takers, govt employees, and suppliers to govt.hey, i'm not a supplier...

but i have found new ways to perfect the art of laggardy...

and i am a handout taker...

and i was a government employee for 6 years...

does this qualify me to be vice president? :) :) :)

Logical
09-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Dems love tax increases. Always have, always will. Those who dont make enough to pay taxes love tax increases. So do laggards, handout takers, govt employees, and suppliers to govt.You do realize that there are rich Democrats as along with tons of hard working Dems. No, when you generalize you don't worry about such things.

If I had to choose a party with more admirable characteristics I would probably think of Dems first.

SBK
09-22-2008, 12:38 AM
I'm going to figure out a way to get the government to bail me out of a multi-billion dollar mess of my own creation. Until then, I'm busy.

Logical
09-22-2008, 12:59 AM
I'm going to figure out a way to get the government to bail me out of a multi-billion dollar mess of my own creation. Until then, I'm busy.So you are going to buy the Chiefs (I am pretty sure they can be classified as a multi-million dollar mess).

SBK
09-22-2008, 01:19 AM
So you are going to buy the Chiefs (I am pretty sure they can be classified as a multi-million dollar mess).

Good thinking. I'll vote for whoever will give me the money (bail me out of the mess) to buy the Chiefs. The money must be in grant form with no strings attached, other than I have to keep the team for more than 10 years.

If Obama can get me that I'll punch the ticket for him. :)

patteeu
09-22-2008, 07:54 AM
Simply saying things without any evidence to back it up isn't independent thought.

It's just saying things.

You're the one who posted the graphic claiming that it represented the impact of the candidates' tax proposals. You ought to know whether that graphic is based on income taxes alone, as HCF claims, or whether it covers everything including the Bush tax cut roll backs and other forms of taxation.

BTW, since you're demanding a link from HCF (which is a reasonable request), shouldn't you provide a link for your graphic so people can investigate for themselves?

tiptap
09-22-2008, 08:02 AM
Here is the deal. The graph shows the re structuring of Bush Cuts. McCain graph doesn't change much. Obama's raises taxes on the very rich. If you make more than 250,000 you start seeing an increase like was during the Clinton years. Progressive taxation.

Neither graph shows the Flat Tax of Social Security or Medicaire because it would be clear that the very rich don't pay a flat tax on any income above 250,000 for Medicare or 133,000 for Social Security.

RINGLEADER
09-22-2008, 09:49 AM
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/12/GR2008061200193.gif

Remember the last Dem presidential candidate who got into office promising a middle-class tax break? I wouldn't hold your breath if you're planning on Obama to give you one.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEED9143AF93AA25755C0A964958260

RINGLEADER
09-22-2008, 09:51 AM
And in answer to the question posed by this thread the answer is that tax cuts pay for themselves by generating higher economic growth and tax revenues.

tiptap
09-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Every single time. In every single point in the business cycle.

Chief Faithful
09-22-2008, 10:27 AM
Does our economy have room any more for the continued reckless spending from Congress?

King_Chief_Fan
09-22-2008, 10:36 AM
We're likely forking hundreds of billions over for the Bush administration to start some bizarre march towards socialism, as we buy out the shitty assets of irresponsible financing institutions.

Probably not the $700 billion, as that's the top-end number, but $500 billion is a more conservative and more likely guess.

With that being the case, isn't it true that the President taking office is taking the oath on a full count? Neither candidate has the room, by my meager calculations, to offer much in tax relief without further enmeshing us in trouble. Times are so tight, I don't think we can afford either candidates tax plan.

Really, we can't afford much of anything for a while. Perhaps Bush has discovered the best way to hamstring a future Obama administration is to stick him so deep in the red that he has to keep his liberal ambitions close-to-the-vest while he tries to climb us out of trouble.

Thoughts.

Edit: I'd like to add that prefixes are bullshit. DaFace needs to be shot in the balls.

You can call it what ever you want. Bush had no choice. Don't give Bush credit for trying to de rail an Obama administration-- Obama hasn't been elected yet. It puts both candidates in a tough situation. Again, not Bush's intention. He was doing what had to be done and most if not all economists agree. If it ham strings Obama -- tough shit. That is probably to this country's advantage. His plan of taxing corporations so that they can say screw it and drive more jobs ex- U.S. is brilliant

jidar
09-22-2008, 11:51 AM
And in answer to the question posed by this thread the answer is that tax cuts pay for themselves by generating higher economic growth and tax revenues.

Yeah it's like a magical box.

You put 1 penny in and 2 pennies come out of the other side somehow.

I mean you can see all the extra money corporations have made has just been returned back to the economy! Right?! Shit, It would be so obvious if they weren't passing it on. After all if they weren't passing the money on then we would be able to tell by the fact that a larger and larger percentage of the worlds wealth would be going to a smaller and smaller percentage of people on a yearly basis.
and that's not happening at all!
oh wait...
****

jidar
09-22-2008, 11:54 AM
No, we simply cannot afford Tax cuts without fixing the problem the government has with debt already. The immense debt the federal government carries was already contributing to a weak dollar before the current financial crisis hit, and now the problem is that much worse.
The fact is we need to protect our currency and we can't do it by reducing revenues and increasing programs at the same time. That's just simple common sense.