PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues We Have DAYS To Stop the $700 Billion Stick-Up (and Fascist Power Grab)


KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 09:08 PM
We Have DAYS To Stop the $700 Billion Stick-Up (and Fascist Power Grab)

Congress hopes to pass the $700 Billion bailout bill by Friday, according to an article in Bloomberg.


In case you haven't heard, the bill would not only stick up American taxpayers for an additional $700 billion, but would literally give Paulson and the government fascist powers.

Don't believe me?

Well, as the Bloomberg article notes: "The bill would bar courts from reviewing actions taken under its authority."


Bloomberg includes the following quotes by people who understand the significance of the bill:


It sounds like Paulson is asking to be a financial dictator, for a limited period of time,'' said historian John Steele Gordon . . . .


The Bush administration seeks "dictatorial power unreviewable by the third branch of government, the courts, to try to resolve the crisis,'' said Frank Razzano, a former assistant chief trial attorney at the Securities and Exchange Commission now at Pepper Hamilton LLP in Washington. ``We are taking a huge leap of faith.''


This power grab is so serious that investigative reporter Larisa Alexandrovna calls it "the final stages of the coup".

We have days to stop this bill. March on Congress. Educate and motivate everyone around you. Do everything you can to prevent this disaster before it is too late.

Posted by George Washington at 8:38 PM

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/we-have-days-to-stop-700-billion.html

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:10 PM
But But But.....the demo congress supports it...

Oh yea, there is that.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 09:11 PM
Saturday, September 20, 2008
U.S. Taxpayers Are Paying to Bail Out FOREIGN Speculators



We all know that the Fed is trying to stick the American taxpayers with trillions of dollars in debt (direct or through inflation) to bail out the Wall Street robber barons.

But did you know that they are also trying to get you to bail out foreign gamblers?

An article in the Telegraph states:


"The Fed has also just offered another $125bn of liquidity to banks outside the US that are desperate for dollars and can't access America's frozen credit markets"

"Another" $125 billion? How much has the Fed already given to foreign banks?

Why are American taxpayers who are already drowning in debt due to U.S. gamblers also being asked to also bail out foreign speculators?


This isn't a pro-America anti-everyone-else post. If I lived in England, or Canada or Japan, I would resent being asked to bail out America, too.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/us-taxpayers-are-paying-to-bail-out.html

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Obama supports it as well

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 09:14 PM
Obama supports it as well

and? Obama has always been on my do no vote list.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:15 PM
what would u prefer, the financial sector taking the entire hit?

Logical
09-21-2008, 09:20 PM
what would u prefer, the financial sector taking the entire hit?I would, this is going to further devalue the dollar and the stock values will actually be less than the stock after a collapse.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 09:21 PM
what would u prefer, the financial sector taking the entire hit?

Those that raped and pillaged should now be rewarded?

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:26 PM
Dems will load every pork project they can get on the bill...demos cannot just deal with an issue without making more pork.

Der Flöprer
09-21-2008, 09:27 PM
what would u prefer, the financial sector taking the entire hit?

Who else's hit is it to take? That's right. You want everyone but us to have money.

Der Flöprer
09-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Dems will load every pork project they can get on the bill...demos cannot just deal with an issue without making more pork.

You must be a politician. Or very afraid of the GWoT. There really is NO other explanation. I'd assume you were a member of that illustrious .01% of the people in this country with money, but you spend too much time here for that to be the case. What is it HCF? Fear? Or are you running for office?

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:29 PM
im just unaware of the other alternatives...

Der Flöprer
09-21-2008, 09:32 PM
im just unaware of the other alternatives...


Will there be an alternative if you or I have to go bankrupt? Will someone come and bail us out? The answer is no, and if you don't believe it find one of the millions who have been foreclosed on in the last year due to the predatory lending practices known as ARM mortgages. No. ***** Americans. We need to bail the pigs out who preyed upon them.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:38 PM
I know its a big issue and its hard to equate my going bankrupt to this issue. But in the end, I dont see much wiggle room...a bailout is going to be necessary and like it or not this thing was led by Feddie and Fannie and was seen coming when Clinton strted the ball rolling...fair? no, but necessary? yes

kcfanintitanhell
09-21-2008, 09:41 PM
I think, as one of the taxpayers that are helping to bail these worthless, greedy, pieces of shit out, the bailout should come with this provision-if you were on the payroll when all this came down, you are required by law to stay on the payroll, at minimum wage, until the debt is paid off. I'll be damned if I pay to keep these twerps flying first class, upgrading their BMW leases, and paying for their time share villas in the Bahamas.
Maybe if they had to drive around in an old Honda Civic for six or seven years they might get a new perspective.

ROYC75
09-21-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm still am trying to understand the long term affects it would have if we don't bail it out. One thing for sure, we can't keep doing this,government has to put an end to it somewhere. The people having to bail out Corporate America for the good of the economy is just wrong ....... This is more BIG GOVERNMENT we do not need.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 09:46 PM
I think the most fascist aspect of it is that there's virtually no oversight of the executive. All decisions of the Treasury are irreversible and all the executive has to do with respect to the legislative branch is report to Congress every six months.

That's it. That's all. Otherwise it's a blank check.

And this administration has burnt up all credibility with blank checks.

Just goes to show that this administration will take political advantage in any situation, crisis or no. I cannot wait for Bush to leave office.

If there is any way at all to avoid this railroading job, Congress should commit to it. I'm just afraid there might not be.

HonestChieffan
09-21-2008, 09:48 PM
Dumbshit, the executive didnt create the freaking issue.

BucEyedPea
09-21-2008, 09:51 PM
I'm still am trying to understand the long term affects it would have if we don't bail it out. One thing for sure, we can't keep doing this,government has to put an end to it somewhere. The people having to bail out Corporate America for the good of the economy is just wrong ....... This is more BIG GOVERNMENT we do not need.

The longer term affects means those 401ks etc that they claim they're trying to protect of the average person will be worthless anyway because they're going to print more money to pay for it. The inflation will destroy the middle-class even if you're employed. I think using employment as an indicator of an economy isn't enough. Inflation is worse. It's insidious.

BucEyedPea
09-21-2008, 09:52 PM
I think the most fascist aspect of it is that there's virtually no oversight of the executive. All decisions of the Treasury are irreversible and all the executive has to do with respect to the legislative branch is report to Congress every six months.

That's it. That's all. Otherwise it's a blank check.

And this administration has burnt up all credibility with blank checks.

Just goes to show that this administration will take political advantage in any situation, crisis or no. I cannot wait for Bush to leave office.

If there is any way at all to avoid this railroading job, Congress should commit to it. I'm just afraid there might not be.

Of course there's a way to railroad it. Congress doesn't even have to allow it and can put up a stink. They simply have no balls and will take no responsibility or initiative on it when it's their job to do so.

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Dumbshit, the executive didnt create the freaking issue.

Are you high?

Seriously, did you drink a gallon of paint before you logged on, today?

Der Flöprer
09-21-2008, 10:06 PM
Dumbshit, the executive didnt create the freaking issue.

Right. Deregulation had ZERO to do with this entire fiasco. Are you really this delusional?

Fat Elvis
09-21-2008, 10:12 PM
I think the most fascist aspect of it is that there's virtually no oversight of the executive.

Have you not been paying attention the past 8 years?

Direckshun
09-21-2008, 10:19 PM
Right. Deregulation had ZERO to do with this entire fiasco. Are you really this delusional?

I tell you what, he's been on the negative equivolent of fire lately.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2008, 10:29 PM
I know its a big issue and its hard to equate my going bankrupt to this issue. But in the end, I dont see much wiggle room...a bailout is going to be necessary and like it or not this thing was led by Feddie and Fannie and was seen coming when Clinton strted the ball rolling...fair? no, but necessary? yes

O RLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Of course there's a way to railroad it. Congress doesn't even have to allow it and can put up a stink. They simply have no balls and will take no responsibility or initiative on it when it's their job to do so.

Right! Paulson told Congress to Sit the F*** down and Shut the F*** up and they obliged, spineless(or bought and paid for) bastards!

Der Flöprer
09-21-2008, 10:35 PM
Right! Paulson told Congress to Sit the F*** down and Shut the F*** up and they obliged, spineless(or bought and paid for) bastards!

It's an intricate combination of these two things.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
Grasping at Straws

MIKE WHITNEY
Counterpunch
Sunday, Sept 21, 2008

On Friday morning, Senator Christopher Dodd, the head of the Senate Banking Committee, was interviewed on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” Dodd revealed that just hours earlier at an emergency meeting convened by Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, lawmakers were told that “We’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system.” Dodd added somberly, that in his three decades of serving in public office, he had “never heard language like this.”

The system is at the breaking point, and despite Wall Street’s elation from the proposed $1 trillion dollar bailout to remove toxic mortgage-backed debt from banks balance sheets, the market is still correcting in what has become a vicious downward cycle. This cycle will persist until the bad debts are accounted for and written off for or until the exhausted dollar-system collapses altogether. Either way, the volatility and violent dislocations will continue for the foreseeable future.

Most people don’t understand what happened on Thursday, but the build-up of bad news on the Lehman default and the $85 billion government takeover of AIG, triggered a run on the money markets and a freeze in interbank lending. The overnight LIBOR rate (London Interbank Offered Rate) more than doubled to 6.44 per cent. Bank of America reported overnight borrowing rates in excess of 6 per cent. Longer-term LIBOR rates also rose sharply. On Wednesday, jittery investors removed their money from money markets and flooded short-term US Treasurys for the assurance of a government guarantee on their savings even though interest rates had turned negative which means that their balance would actually shrink at the date of maturity. This is unprecedented, but it does help to illustrate how raw fear can drive the market.

The TED spread (the TED Spread measures market stress by revealing the reluctance of banks to lend to each other) widened and the credit markets froze in place. Borrowing three-month dollars on the interbank market and the U.S. Treasury’s three-month borrowing costs widened five full percentage points. That’s huge. The banking system shut down.

What does it mean? It means the Federal Reserve has lost control of the system. The market is driving interest rates now, and the market is terrified. End of story.

When the Fed announced its emergency program to dump $180 billion into the global banking system, short term Libor retreated slightly but long-term rates have remained stubbornly high. The noose continues to tighten. These rates are pinned to 6 million US mortgages which will be resetting in the next few years. That’s more bad news for the housing industry.

The entire system is deleveraging with the ferocity of a Force-5 gale touching down in the Gulf, and yet, Henry Paulson has decided that the prudent thing to do is build levees around the system with paper dollars. Naturally, many people who understand the power of market-corrections are skeptical. It won’t work. Libor is pushing rates upwards–that’s the “true” cost of money. The Fed Funds rate (2 per cent) is supported by infusions of paper dollars into the banking system to keep interest rates artificially low. Now the extreme pace of deleveraging has the Fed on the ropes. Trillions of dollars of credit is being sucked into a black hole which is raising the price of money. It’s out of Bernanke’s control. He needs to step out of the way and let prices fall or the dollar system will vanish in a deflationary vacuum.

The problems cannot be resolved by shifting the debts of the banks onto the taxpayer. That’s an illusion. By adding another $1 or $2 trillion dollars to the National Debt, Paulson is just ensuring that interest rates will go up, real estate will crash, unemployment will soar, and foreign central banks will abandon the dollar. In truth, there is no fix for a deleveraging market anymore than there is a fix for gravity. The belief that massive debts and insolvency can be erased by increasing liquidity just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. That’s why Henry Paulson is the worst possible person to be orchestrating the so called rescue project. Paulson comes from a business culture which rewards deception, personal acquisitiveness, and extreme risk-taking. Paulson is to finance capitalism what Rumsfeld is to military strategy. His leadership, and the congress’ pathetic abdication of responsibility, assures disaster. Besides, why should the taxpayers be happy that the stocks of Morgan Stanley, Washington Mutual and Goldman Sachs surged on the news that there would be a government bailout yesterday? These banks are essentially bankrupt and their business models are broken. Keeping insolvent banks on life support is not a rescue plan; it’s insanity.

No one has any idea of the magnitude of the deleveraging ahead or the size of the debts that will have to be written down. That’s because 30 years of deregulation has allowed a parallel financial system to arise in which over $500 trillion dollars in derivatives are traded without any government supervision or accounting. These counterparty transactions are interwoven throughout the entire “regulated” system in a way that poses a clear and present danger to the broader economy. It’s a mess. For example, there are an estimated $62 trillion of Credit Default Swaps (CDS) alone, which are basically insurance policies for defaulting bonds. AIG was as heavily involved in CDS as they were in regulated insurance products. So why would AIG sell CDS rather than conventional insurance?

Because, just like the banks, AIG could maximize its profits by minimizing its capital cushion. In other words, it didn’t really have the capital to pay off claims when its CDS contracts began to blow up. If it had been properly regulated, then government regulators would have made sure that it was sufficiently capitalized with adequate reserves to pay off claims in a down-market. Now taxpayers will pay for the lawless system which men like “industry rep” Henry Paulson put in place. That’s deregulation in a nutshell; a system that allows Wall Street banksters to create credit out of thin air and then run weeping to Congress when their swindles backfire.

Inflating the currency, printing more money, and increasing the deficits won’t help. The bad debts have to be accounted for and liquidated. The Paulson strategy is to create another ocean of red ink while refusing to face the underlying problem head-on. This just further exacerbates the consumer-led recession which economists know is already setting in everywhere across the country. Demand is down and consumer spending is off due to falling home equity, job losses, and tighter lending standards at the banks. The broader economy does not need the added downward pressure from higher taxes, bigger deficits, or inflation. Paulson’s plan is a band-aid approach to a sucking chest wound. The debts are enormous and the pain will be substantial, but the problem cannot be resolved by crushing the middle class or destroying the currency.

The malfunctioning of the markets and the freeze-over in the banking system are the outcome of a massive credit unwind instigated by trillions of dollars of low interest credit from the Federal Reserve which was magnified many times over via complex derivatives contracts and extreme leveraging by speculative investment bankers. This has generated the biggest equity bubble in history. That bubble is now set for a “hard-landing” which is the predictable result of an unsupervised marketplace where individual players are allowed to create as much credit as they choose.

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney09202008.html

SBK
09-22-2008, 01:22 AM
Screw it, they're gonna do it anyway. (sticking my hand out hoping for a few billion to land in it)....

KILLER_CLOWN
09-22-2008, 07:27 AM
Financial terrorism: US taxpayers bail out Wall Street criminals

Jerry Mazza
Online Journal
Monday, Sept 22, 2008

In the weeks surrounding the anniversary of 9/11, the most terrifying attack on America’s soil, another attack on America’s citizenry is taking place: the systematic looting of the US Treasury to bail out American financial institutions.

After degrading the stock and stealing the floundering Bear Sterns, then handing the institution and its physical building to JP Morgan, the FED and US Treasury, the financial fronts of the US government, decided to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While allowing Lehman Brothers to drown on its own, and Merrill Lynch to scuttle under the wing of the Bank of America, curiously the F & T (Fed and Treasury) saw fit to answer AIG’s call for a $30 billion bridge loan with an $85 billion bailout. This all happened while Morgan Stanley is pow-wowing with Wachovia to merge.

At the root of all this financial disaster, we are told, is bad debt paper, unsecured loans, bad mortgages, irresponsible handing out of monies to unfit borrowers by mortgage companies, banks, and others who should have known better but for their greed, their criminality, and the lack of effective overriding controls. But then lenders made their commissions, their profits, had a heyday with the housing bubble until it burst around them and nobody handed back a buck as the crappy debt paper hit the fan and began to infect the world.

It turns out the banks had no problem passing the debt paper upwards to be collateralized by investment banks into securities, preferred stocks and bonds. And the central banks had no problem sucking it up. The entire financial system took part in this orgy, knowing full well that without protection it could catch the financial AIDS virus that could spell death to our financial system. But they succumbed to their cash-lust against all their well-credentialed wisdom.

Now the Fed is throwing still more money into securing money market funds, whose buck was busted yesterday, yielding 97 cents on the dollar. So your money is safe nowhere, that is without some pig somewhere getting a piece of it; that is whoever is behind this incredible manipulation. Of course, in an election year it behooves the masters of debt, the Bush administration to rush in and now borrow from the US taxpayers, from our Treasury, to bail out these sorry corporate flops. But then borrowing comes natural to Bush & Company.

As Paul Craig Roberts pointed out in his Online Journal article, US economy: rudderless and reeling from direct hits, “Most Americans, including the presidential candidates and the media, are unaware that the US government today, now at this minute, is unable to finance its day-to-day operations and must rely on foreigners to purchase its bonds. The government pays interest to foreigners by selling more bonds, and when the bonds come due, the government redeems the bonds by selling new bonds. The day the foreigners do not buy is the day the American people and their government are brought to reality. This is not the position of a superpower.”

Roberts is the former assistant secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term; the former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal; and author of numerous books on economics, American government and Washington’s perverse insider mentality.

Returning to AIG’s handout

AIG, unable to raise the $30 billion in the fraternity of the financial community turned to Big Brother, the F & T, who must have for once really scoured AIG’s tangled books to realize that the insurance giant, operating as Michael Ruppert once pointed out in 130 countries, earning $46 billion even back in 2000, was not telling all. Indeed, Bernanke and Paulson must have been clutching their hearts, if not their britches, as the undisclosed layers of debt peeled off like a rotten onion’s. And so the real bridge to nowhere that needed to be built with taxpayer dollars was more like $85 billion. Of course, John McCain was first against and then for it in two consecutive days.

For this bailout, the F & T took 80 percent of AIG’s stock for collateral and at least 8.5 percent interest on earnings. They also asked for its CEO, Robert Willumstad, to get lost, and they brought in CEO Edward Liddy, former chief exec of Allstate. Mr. Liddy, as the Wall Street Journal tells us is best known for “pulling apart empires, having helped dismantle Sears.” He also has the dubious achievement of having “worked under Donald Rumsfeld at drug maker G.G. Searle and Co [who brought you the deadly Aspartame after it was banned for 15 years by the FDA].” Mr. Liddy happens to be on the board at Goldman Sachs, the investment bank Mr. Paulsen headed before becoming Treasury secretary. What a coincidence.

Of course, President Bush approved the $85 billion AIG bailout without the approval of Congress. After all, who needs them. As to AIG’s backstory, which, as Ruppert pointed out, includes affiliations with the OSS/CIA going back to WW II and problems with money-laundering for drug trafficking, let me add this bit of back story for your reading pleasure, 9/11 and the Greenberg Familia. Speaking of terrorism, please read it, links and all.

Of course, Mr. Greenberg had to step down as CEO of AIG in 2005. As Wikepedia tells us, “By the mid-2000s AIG had become embroiled in a series of fraud investigations conducted by the Securities and Exchange Commission, U.S. Justice Department, and New York State Attorney General‘s Office. Greenberg was ousted amid an accounting scandal in February 2005. The New York Attorney General’s investigation led to a $1.6 billion fine for AIG and criminal charges for some of its executives.

“Greenberg was succeeded as CEO by Martin J. Sullivan, who had begun his career at AIG as a clerk in its London office in 1970. On June 15, 2008, under intense pressure due to financial losses and a falling stock price, Martin Sullivan resigned from the CEO position. He was replaced by Robert B. Willumstad, who has served as Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Company since 2006. Willumstad was forced to step down and was replaced by Edward M. Liddy on September 17, 2008.”

Actually, on 9/11/08, trying to reassure New York City voters about our fiscal fitness, Mayor Mike Bloomberg suggested that perhaps Warren Buffet should step in and help with the original bridge loan. A billionaire businessman, Mayor Bloomberg thought it was not a good idea for the government to be bailing out AIG, even when the price tag was only $30 billion. So how did it become so important in the interim?

Well, we were told that since AIG was really an international player its infected debt paper could reap financial havoc around the world. For example, the Times reported, “AIG had $20 billion of subprime mortgages marked at 69 cents on the dollar and $24 billion in Alt-A securities values at 67 cents on the dollar,” similar to the kinds of debt Lehman was carrying.

The Times also said, “AIG has also been under pressure from the derivatives contracts that its London-based financial products unit sold in connection with complex debt securities, making them more attractive to buyers. The swaps also gave speculators an opportunity to bet on the debt securities’ overall creditworthiness, which have declined in response to the turmoil in the housing markets.”

The bottom line, “because the debt securities covered by the swaps are so complex and opaque [italics mine], it has been hard for investors to verity AIG’s numbers on their own, and investors have grown impatient as AIG reported big losses they did not expect in the last two quarters.” That’s Times-talk for they were crooks, covering up the real numbers in a web of deceit, which is traditionally their specialty. Though we don’t have Hank Greenberg to kick around anymore, we should, because he created this house of cards during his CEO tenure.

Enter the Securities and Exchange Commission

Somewhere in Sleepy Hollow, word got to the SEC and its chairman, Christopher Cox, that financial explosions were occurring in New York and that the towers of finance were being hit, exploding, and falling from what, short selling? Is that what it was? Of course, Commissioner Cox roused himself on Friday and banned “all short selling,” for “temporary emergency action to prohibit short selling in financial companies to protect the integrity and quality of the securities market and strengthen investor confidence. The UK and FSA took similar action yesterday.”

A reader from the financial world wrote to me that, “The bear raids on the banks and brokers were NOT a case of piling on by US based hedge funds. And from what he [a learned colleague] was seeing and hearing about in terms of order flow, the vast majority of the financial short selling the past week or so were being done overseas. It appears that the lion’s share of shorting was coming out of overseas bourses such as London and Dubai. It may not be a coincidence that the financial short selling ban is both here and in London.”

He added, “There is another coincidence: the huge increase in shorting of the financials occurred on the anniversary of 9/11. And on top of that, the same institutions attacked on 9/11/01 were the ones suffering in recent days.” He went on to explain, “Short sales require a locate (shares to borrow) and then a subsequent delivery. It should take less than 3 days to deliver the borrowed shares, but instead delivery is often delayed indefinitely. Failure to deliver leads to a margin, which can be as high as 9-15 percent . . .

“If you want to know who to blame for the past 5 years of naked shorting, you only have two places to look: the financial brokers themselves, and the nonfeasance of a feckless SEC.” And so what goes around comes around.

But now you know. We’re under attack. Even my conservative broker said, “Somebody is making money on this.” That is just the way certain individuals made millions on 9/11, having foreknowledge of the coming event, by betting on Morgan Stanley (located in the North Tower), United and American Airlines’ stock to tank, and by betting on defense industry stocks to zoom up. The real revelation here is that the market and its so-called protective systems are offering us about as much protection from foreign and domestic attack as NORAD’s air-defense system did on 9/11. America once more is under fire.

As on that day, Cheney was in the White House bunker directing activities, and Bush was stranded somewhere listening to some school children read a goat story. And above them, some financial elites were pulling the strings to pull down the American economy and make us less than a banana republic for their continued picking. Seven years later, hardly anything has changed.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3773.shtml

tiptap
09-22-2008, 07:37 AM
im just unaware of the other alternatives...

The US government could buy half interest of payment for mortgages. That value could be recovered when the house sold later.

The corporations in question could issue stock that the US govt would buy up and could recoup when the crisis is over and the company is worth something.


There is two off the top of my head. Mix them there is a third. Your lack of imagination and that you just are going to follow Bush is what has been wrong all these 8 years.

BigRedChief
09-22-2008, 08:18 AM
Those who don't remember their past are dommed to repeat it.
Some famous old dude

Rome fell in part because of the greed of the powerful at the expense of the empire.

Now the taxpayer is going to bail out greedy Wall Street bankers and the unregulated syatem that was allowed to flourish.

Those people in charge of these banks etc should not be allowed to keep their goldern parachutes or the huge bonus's. They should be used to help pay off the taxpayer debt. Doesn't matter that it won't put a dent in the debt. It sends a message that you can't get screw up and get rich at the same time at taxpayer expense.

tiptap
09-22-2008, 08:27 AM
Rome fell but not the Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire continued for many more years and finally failed because of disease and the rise of Muslims. They continued because they were better educated.

Redrum_69
09-22-2008, 03:42 PM
Rome fell but not the Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire continued for many more years and finally failed because of disease and the rise of Muslims. They continued because they were better educated.


so muslims are behind this all?

Carlota69
09-22-2008, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE='Hamas' Jenkins;5043241]O RLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act[/QUOTE

Funny, no one has a response to this.

BIG_DADDY
09-22-2008, 03:55 PM
There isn't a snowballs chance in hell this doesn't pass.

Redrum_69
09-22-2008, 03:57 PM
it will pass

and another new chapter will emerge..

United States of France...

Stewie
09-22-2008, 04:13 PM
.

jidar
09-22-2008, 04:29 PM
You cannot stop this.

It would be best if we come up with a plan that didn't involve turning Paulson into Mein Fuhrer of finance, but we have to bail these banks out.

The banks at risk of failing now are normal banks that hold deposits and payrolls for companies and crap like that. You can't have Washington Mutual go under because it might literally sink every company that is doing business with them. Payrolls stop, companies go under, tax income plummets, unemployment goes through the roof, and we're all back in the stone ages.

This is why we shouldn't allow normal Banks to be involved in risky investment practices, and prior to 1999 they weren't legally allowed to. There used to be laws dating back to the great depression that addressed this exact problem and kept banks separate from investment, but deregulation (spearheaded by republicans) reared it's ugly head and here we are.

Silock
09-22-2008, 05:22 PM
Someone on another forum called this the "No Banker Left Behind" Act.

I agree.

Bootlegged
09-22-2008, 05:58 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/SVsqFQTbKXo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/SVsqFQTbKXo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

jidar
09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
Someone on another forum called this the "No Banker Left Behind" Act.

I agree.

hahahah damn that's hilarious

Der Flöprer
09-22-2008, 10:10 PM
Someone on another forum called this the "No Banker Left Behind" Act.

I agree.

LMAO Oh hell.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Top Economist Mishkin: Worse Than the Depression
By Andrew Fisher | 23 Sep 2008 | 09:41 AM ET

Economics scholar and former Federal Reserve Governor Frederic Mishkin says the shock that continues to rip through the nation's economy is actually worse than what was felt during the Great Depression.



"The difference is, we have people on the ball," the Columbia University professor told CNBC.

Mishkin said he was impressed by the way his former colleagues at the Fed handled crises.

"During all these episodes...everybody stayed very cool, calm, and collected," he recalled. "Chairman Bernanke is someone who sits down, is very analytical, thinks through, doesn't get excited, just, 'Let's do the job,' the staff operated that way, the rest of the board operated that way." (Watch the accompanying video for more on what Mishkin has to say on the economy...)

That said, he believes it is appropriate for the Federal Reserve to turn the management of the crisis over to Congress and the Administration.

"The Federal Reserve is not supposed to be doing fiscal policy," he said. "In fact, when you're spending taxpayers' money in a big way, it's got to be dealt with by the legislative branches and the executive branch."

The key, he explained, is timing.

"When things happen, you have to act very quickly," he said. "The problem is, if you try to act well before anything happens—particularly in terms of any bailouts—then in fact you create incentives for people to take on excessive risk."

And the stakes are large, he warned.

"The reality is that we're in a situation that if Wall Street falls apart, Main Street is going to get killed."

He's big on Bernanke, but he's also impressed with the administration's point man.

"We have Hank Paulson, who understands what Wall Street is all about, and in fact the dangers that are lurking there, and the need for speed, and the ability to work with Congress," Mishkin said. "We saw that during the stimulus package; it was surprising how quickly that was done; it was done in a reasonable way; it's very important to have people like that in charge right now."


http://www.cnbc.com/id/26850473

KILLER_CLOWN
09-24-2008, 09:11 AM
White House Admits It Drew Up Bailout Months Ago

No one could have seen this coming, right?

Well, actually, the White House has admitted that they drew up the bail out plan months ago:


[White House Deputy Press Secretary Tony] Fratto insisted that the plan was not slapped together and had been drawn up as a contingency over previous months and weeks by administration officials. He acknowledged lawmakers were getting only days to peruse it, but he said this should be enough.
But the government did nothing real to prevent the financial meltdown. Instead, it let the meltdown happen, and now is trying to ram through terrible and counter-productive legislation drafted previously by using fear tactics.

Does this sound familiar http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/senator-leahy-and-new-york-times.html ? It should http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2008/03/us-and-allied-intelligence-services-had.html.

bkkcoh
09-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Link (http://www.chronwatch-america.com/articles/3623/1/The-Bail-outs-Must-Stop/Page1.html)

The average American listening to all the news of bank failures, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (who?) being taken over by the government, and now a “bail-out” of large, privately owned and well known companies, is at first bewildered, and then angry. The average American should be furious
.
But whom should Americans be furious? That seems to be the big question as political fingers are pointing in every direction. Was it greedy CEO’s with their “golden parachutes?” Was it the Democrats? Was it the Republicans? Was it Wall Street? (Who, exactly IS “Wall Street?”) The simple answer is that it is all of the above.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Jr., and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke were on Capital Hill taking a verbal beating from some of the very people who should not be asking the questions, but answering them and answering those questions under oath.

Senator Chris Dodd, (D-Conn.) and Congressman Barney Frank, (D-Mass.) are the first two who should be grilled, not by fellow politicians, but by an independent and hopefully very clever, angry, and mean attorney hired by the American people. No one from the present Justice Department need apply. Both should be asked how much money they have taken from lobbyists hired by the CEO’s of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Since that is public record, they should then be asked what Fannie and Freddie got in return for that money.

Barney Frank should be questioned about his House Bill, H.R. 3838, that is clearly designed to keep Fannie and Freddie afloat as long as possible despite all the signs that there was serious trouble ahead. But all his bill did was make the hole bigger in the side of the Titanic. Basically all H. R. 3838 did was: “To temporarily increase the portfolio caps applicable to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, to provide the necessary financing to curb foreclosures by facilitating the refinancing of at-risk subprime borrowers into safe, affordable loans, and for other purposes.”

Barney Frank and his counterpart in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, (D-N.Y.) did everything they could to delay and cover-up the outright fraud and book-cooking that was going on within Freddie and Fannie.

As far back as 2003, Freddie and Fannie were $9 billion dollars in debt because of bad loans that continued to be accepted on a daily basis. Pressure from liberals in Congress to continue giving out bad loans was relentless and for years it continued with CEO’s, who happen to be friends of Dodd, Frank, Schumer, and Clinton, leaving with millions in their bank accounts as the companies they ran went under.

The truth is that this financial disaster for the American taxpayer didn’t begin under George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or George Herbert Walker Bush, or Ronald Reagan. It started under Jimmy Carter . It started with the passing of The Community Reinvestment Act in 1977. Basically, this act pushed local community banks and lenders, to “bend” the rules a little and give loans to low-income families. Like many liberal schemes, it seemed like a good idea at the time. There was a provision that protected the nervous lender in the clause that stated that loans should be given “in a safe and sound manner.” This gave the bank some leeway and choice in the loans that were given out.

Under Bill Clinton, The Community Reinvestment Act was revised. Basically, the revision started to put pressure on lenders to take more financial risks. It was felt that lenders were not being “fair” to minorities and the poor who only wanted to share in the American dream of owning their own home. Janet Reno began to outwardly threaten banks and mortgage lenders with prosecution if home loans were not approved for those who wanted to purchase homes that, in truth, they could not afford.

Fearing federal retribution, loans started being approved for people who had no down-payment, no jobs, no collateral, and absolutely no hope of ever being able to meet any mortgage payment after the grace period of low interest ran out.

Then, the greed took over. Banks would “bundle” up loans, good and bad, and sell them to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, making all their money up front for loans they knew would default eventually. As these loans did default, in larger and larger numbers, even Fannie and Freddie could no longer stand up under the hemorrhage of money loss. Wall Street panicked and so did the federal government.

Were there warning signs that a disaster was looming? Of course, there were. But there was money to be made and politicians and CEO’s alike were not about to give up the gravy train of money being crammed in their pockets. The CEO’s of Freddie and Fannie would hire lobbyists to slip money into the pockets of Senator Chris Dodd, (D-Conn.), chairman of the Senate banking committee, who was supposed to be overseeing the banking industry, to the tune of $133,900 since 1989. Barack Obama was number two at the trough with over $120,000 which was no small feat since he has only been in the Senate for three years. Dodd and Obama were closely followed by the last Democratic nominee, John Kerry, (D-Mass.) and then Senator Hillary Clinton, (D-N.Y.)

What were these lobbyists buying for the millions they sprinkled around the Senate and House of Representatives? They were buying a blind eye. They were buying little or no oversight into the juggernaut that has finally crashed on the heads of the American taxpayer. CEO’s got rich, politicians got rich and they got votes, being able to tell minorities and the poor, “See what we are doing for you?” For years, the red flags were stuffed under the desk and ignored.

Early in his administration, George Bush sounded an alarm over the small amount of working capital Fannie and Freddie had on hand. He urged them to sell more shares to increase their reserve in funding and put them on more stable ground. He urged them to be more selective in the loans they bought. This suggestion was declined because the current stockholders would n ot make as much profit.

Franklin Raines, the Fannie Mae CEO from 1999 to 2004, decided to retire early, taking millions with him, under a cloud of accusations that he had cooked the books to make it appear the company was making money instead of going head-long into debt. Another player in this financial kabuki dance is Jamie Gorelick. That name should ring a bell with every American. She seems to surface right at the heart of every American disaster in the last 15 years. Ms. Gorelick was vice-chair of Fannie Mae from 1997 to 2003. Like all the others, she left with millions in her pocket while declaring that Fannie Mae “is among the handful of top-quality institutions."

The next year it was found that Fannie was $9 billion dollars in the red. Oddly, this $9 billion had been overlooked in the books Ms. Gorelick and Mr. Raines kept.

Let’s put Mr. Raines and Ms. Gorelick on the stand. The American people deserve to hear how much they gave lobbyists to pass on to their friends in Congress to keep the blinders on. That number is a staggering $16.2 million dollars since 1997. That amount bought very large blinders. And, it bought time. It bought time for the likes of Raines and Gorelick to make their millions and bow out before the bottom fell out.

Republican nominee John McCain raised the alarm two years ago but his plan for more oversight was killed in the Democrat-controlled committee. Over 20-year span, McCain took $20,000 but this did not stop him from voicing his concerns. The problem was that Democrats didn’t want to hear about it.

President Bush’s warnings were also ignored. Should Bush have done more? Yes. Unfortunately, Bush was distracted by the 9/11 attack and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. So now, nearly every hour Americans watch as a pompous Chris Dodd or Barney Frank struts to a microphone to declare the “failed economic policies of the Bush administration are responsible for this mess.”

No, Senator, he is not. YOU and your greedy friends are responsible. It took three decades to reach the point of no return and some were there with their hands out nearly all of those years.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is launching a full investigation into all of this. This investigation will abruptly end should Barack Obama win in November. The last thing Democrats want is the American people learning how complicit so many of them are in the illegal practice at Fannie and Freddie that led to the taxpayers bearing the brunt of the their unbridled greed.

While politicians want oversight over the “bail-out,” there has been little outcry for an investigation into how all this evolved.

It’s time for Americans to go to their windows and throw them open and yell, “We are mad as hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore!”

Then, in November, vote the lot of them out of office.

tiptap
09-24-2008, 12:57 PM
Wow, Carter set a ticking political economic bomb that killed the Republican Party 40 years later. Man my opinion has really gone up for Carter. What a man.

bkkcoh
09-24-2008, 01:00 PM
Wow, Carter set a ticking political economic bomb that killed the Republican Party 40 years later. Man my opinion has really gone up for Carter. What a man.

I see math is one of your best subjects also... huh??? :D

banyon
09-24-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm not going to buy into all of the Prison Planet-radio-signals-in-fillings rantings here, but i will admit that i am troubled by the decriptions I've heard of "no judicial review" for the Secretary's decisions.

It seems counter to the notion of the balance of powers that Congress could just write a bill that said the Judiciary can't review it. If they can do that here, why don't they just put it in every bill? What am I missing here? What's the rationale does anyone know?

tiptap
09-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Ok so the number is off by 10. I am sorry my respect for Carter is reduced by a fourth. But is still newly uplifted to know he could see that far ahead. Because of course no one could account for this given 30 years.

Dave Lane
09-24-2008, 02:33 PM
Obama supports it as well

McCain loves it his buddies get bailed out...

bkkcoh
09-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Ok so the number is off by 10. I am sorry my respect for Carter is reduced by a fourth. But is still newly uplifted to know he could see that far ahead. Because of course no one could account for this given 30 years.

I understand that no one president can soley be held accountable for the financial mess that it is today. But it isn't fair to put it totally at the foot of the president right now either. The policies of all of the presidents have helped cause this, some more then others. Both parties are guilty of causing the firestorm, some have just poured more gas on the fire then others.

memyselfI
02-10-2009, 03:10 PM
Oh, the good old days. :doh!:

***SPRAYER
02-10-2009, 03:11 PM
Killer Clown might be crazy, but he was definitely right.

memyselfI
02-10-2009, 03:17 PM
And yet, we are willing getting ready for another one. And we should be grateful about it because the new guy is doing the grabbing. :spock:

***SPRAYER
02-10-2009, 03:20 PM
And yet, we are willing getting ready for another one. And we should be grateful about it because the new guy is doing the grabbing. :spock:

The average person out there is completely clueless of the horrific fate that is about to engulf them...


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_Z1sj7gzpCk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_Z1sj7gzpCk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Taco John
02-10-2009, 04:20 PM
The only way to stop this thing would have been to vote for Ron Paul. McCain was going to do the same damn thing.

What's the point of even trying to stop this thing now? You might as well be someone standing against a speeding train hoping to stop it before it hits the cow on the tracks.

***SPRAYER
02-10-2009, 08:58 PM
The only way to stop this thing would have been to vote for Ron Paul. McCain was going to do the same damn thing.

What's the point of even trying to stop this thing now? You might as well be someone standing against a speeding train hoping to stop it before it hits the cow on the tracks.

Paul had no chance 'cos he was an anti-semite.

CHIEF4EVER
02-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Hope!!!!!!!!! LMAO