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View Full Version : Elections Hope, Change, & Lies: Orchestrated "Grassroots" Smear Campaigns. Whodunit?


patteeu
09-22-2008, 09:44 AM
Here's a theory, supported by both evidence and conjecture, about where all those lies about Palin were coming from a couple weeks ago. From the Jawa Report (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php):


Hope, Change, & Lies: Orchestrated "Grassroots" Smear Campaigns & the People that Run Them

Extensive research was conducted by the Jawa Report to determine the source of smears directed toward Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin. Those smears included false allegations that she belonged to a secessionist political party and that she has radical anti-American views.

Our research suggests that a subdivision of one of the largest public relations firms in the world most likely started and promulgated rumors about Sarah Palin that were known to be false. These rumors were spread in a surreptitious manner to avoid exposure.

It is also likely that the PR firm was paid by outside sources to run the smear campaign. While not conclusive, evidence suggests a link to the Barack Obama campaign. Namely:

* Evidence suggests that a YouTube video with false claims about Palin was uploaded and promoted by members of a professional PR firm.

* The family that runs the PR firm has extensive ties to the Democratic Party, the netroots, and are staunch Obama supporters.

* Evidence suggests that the firm engaged in a concerted effort to distribute the video in such a way that it would appear to have gone viral on its own. Yet this effort took place on company time.

* Evidence suggests that these distribution efforts included actions by at least one employee of the firm who is unconnected with the family running the company.

* The voice-over artist used in this supposedly amateur video is a professional.

* This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod's firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as "astroturfing."

* David Axelrod is Barack Obama's chief media strategist.

* The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.

This suggests that false rumors and outright lies about Sarah Palin and John McCain being spread on the internet are being orchestrated by political partisans and are not an organic grassroots phenomenon led by the left wing fringe. Our findings follow (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php).

BucEyedPea
09-22-2008, 09:49 AM
Saw it first thing this AM on another board.

I'll wait for the refutations first because it has Pajamas Media printed all over that page. But Wow! If true.

RINGLEADER
09-22-2008, 09:50 AM
Saw it first thing this AM on another board.

I'll wait for the refutations first because it has Pajamas Media printed all over that page. But Wow! If true.

I read this. Not sure why it's such a big deal?

StcChief
09-22-2008, 11:06 AM
colour me shocked :rolleyes:

RaiderH8r
09-22-2008, 11:51 AM
Obama's US Senate campaign used these types of Chicago tactics back then too. David Axelrod does not f around. He'll smear, impugn, lie, cheat, and kick puppies if it gets his guy elected.

As the old saying goes, if they won't take away the seat for doing it then there's no reason not to do it.

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 12:11 PM
That can derail a presidential bid for sure if found to be true .......

Bowser
09-22-2008, 12:13 PM
That can derail a presidential bid for sure if found to be true .......

Are you new to politics?

jidar
09-22-2008, 12:14 PM
In the age of Karl Rove politics, the democrats have decided you've got to fight fire with fire apparently.

It's a shame, a disgusting shame.

Bowser
09-22-2008, 12:14 PM
What's funny about this thread is that this title could be used by either side. All you need to do is see who started the thread to know which way it goes.

Direckshun
09-22-2008, 12:20 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait....

You mean the people that threw false accusations at Sarah Palin actively support and organize for OBAMA!?!?!?

THIS IS A BOMBSHELL. SURE TO DERAIL HIS CAMPAIGN.

The sheer GALL of accusing SARAH PALIN was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party -- when it was her LIFE PARTNER HUSBAND who was actually a member and all SHE did was ADDRESS them a time or three -- is OUTRAGEOUS.

J Diddy
09-22-2008, 12:22 PM
Are you new to politics?

he can't remember

J Diddy
09-22-2008, 12:23 PM
I read this. Not sure why it's such a big deal?

Everybody thinks their baby is the prettiest.

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 12:30 PM
Are you new to politics?

Nope, but if the facts came out just before the election that Obama did this, it would send a trust issue to the public bigger than what is out there now.

If it is found to be true from his campaign,not him, it will have little affect.

Getting the facts is the hard part... right now it is just an article of possible smear.

Direckshun
09-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Nope, but if the facts came out just before the election that Obama did this, it would send a trust issue to the public bigger than what is out there now.

If it is found to be true from his campaign,not him, it will have little affect.

Getting the facts is the hard part... right now it is just an article of possible smear.

How did the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, that were intimately connected to the Bush campaign, tank Bush's campaign?

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 12:38 PM
How did the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, that were intimately connected to the Bush campaign, tank Bush's campaign?


Again, I said campaign....... it wasn't directly from Bush and proven before the election.

You missed the boat ........

Garcia Bronco
09-22-2008, 12:49 PM
I read this. Not sure why it's such a big deal?


Because it's slander and it's illegal. People need to take other people to the task for this in this country.

jAZ
09-22-2008, 01:11 PM
All I know is that I'm certain the video was made by an Obama supporter. That's just common sense.

As for "evidence". I think I missed where that was provided.

NewChief
09-22-2008, 01:14 PM
All I know is that I'm certain the video was made by an Obama supporter. That's just common sense.

As for "evidence". I think I missed where that was provided.

The irony of Mr. Patt"I'll wait and make up my mind once there's irrefutable proof"eu posting this is awesomeness at its finest.

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 01:15 PM
All I know is that I'm certain the video was made by an Obama supporter. That's just common sense.

As for "evidence". I think I missed where that was provided.


You missed the boat too, so far there is no evidence, just speculation and accusations.

HolmeZz
09-22-2008, 01:35 PM
You missed the boat too, so far there is no evidence, just speculation and accusations.

So this is kinda like slander?

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 01:49 PM
So this is kinda like slander?

Yep, so far anyways, it's politics as usual.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait....

You mean the people that threw false accusations at Sarah Palin actively support and organize for OBAMA!?!?!?

THIS IS A BOMBSHELL. SURE TO DERAIL HIS CAMPAIGN.

The sheer GALL of accusing SARAH PALIN was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party -- when it was her LIFE PARTNER HUSBAND who was actually a member and all SHE did was ADDRESS them a time or three -- is OUTRAGEOUS.

No, what this potentially is is something pretty similar to what Bush haters allege that Bush did to John McCain in South Carolina in 2004. Maybe it was an unrelated, uncoordinated Obama supporter acting on his own or maybe it wasn't. There's certainly enough evidence to consider the latter. Besides, David Axelrod has a history of this kind of skulduggery.

patteeu
09-22-2008, 02:16 PM
The irony of Mr. Patt"I'll wait and make up my mind once there's irrefutable proof"eu posting this is awesomeness at its finest.

The difference is that I haven't accused anyone of anything and I've been honest about the fact that this theory lies, at least partly, on conjecture. Usually we're knee deep in accusations of Bush, Cheney, or Rove wrongdoing well before we get even the beginning of an evidentiary basis. Often that basis never shows up.

clemensol
09-22-2008, 02:18 PM
First of all, there is no evidence that there is a connection to the Obama campaign.

Second, while there is no evidence that Palin was once a member of the AIP, her husband was, and she spoke to their convention. I'm not defending lying, but at least this is somewhat based in truth... As opposed to the McCain camp which just flat out lies.

mlyonsd
09-22-2008, 02:25 PM
First of all, there is no evidence that there is a connection to the Obama campaign.

Second, while there is no evidence that Palin was once a member of the AIP, her husband was, and she spoke to their convention. I'm not defending lying, but at least this is somewhat based in truth... As opposed to the McCain camp which just flat out lies.

So does the Obama camp. They're running an ad in my area now naming people on the McCain campaign that are active lobbyists which isn't true.

They're former lobbyists, which comprise part of Obama's campaign team as well.

To pretend Obama's camp is lily white is just silly.

clemensol
09-22-2008, 03:59 PM
So does the Obama camp. They're running an ad in my area now naming people on the McCain campaign that are active lobbyists which isn't true.

They're former lobbyists, which comprise part of Obama's campaign team as well.

To pretend Obama's camp is lily white is just silly.

I'm not saying the Obama camp bears no blame. I certainly think they were deceitful with the whole mccain 100 years in iraq quote and other things. But I wouldn't accuse them of the same level of dishonesty as McCain. Also, if you're thinking about the ad I'm thinking about, he doesn't call anyone on McCain's staff "active" lobbyists.

clemensol
09-22-2008, 03:59 PM
In fact, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to be an active lobbyist and get paid from a political campaign.

Logical
09-22-2008, 04:48 PM
...

As the old saying goes, if they won't take away the seat for doing it then there's no reason not to do it.

I am pretty sure Karl Rove has that tatooed on his arm as his personal motto.

Ultra Peanut
09-22-2008, 04:51 PM
Here's a theory, supported by both evidence and conjecturehttp://i35.tinypic.com/11rb2tv.jpg

Logical
09-22-2008, 04:53 PM
By the way I cannot comment on the source of this story, because I have never heard of them. However I would bet they are a conservative blog based site. I would also bet that extensive research involves someones mom being told this at Sunday brunch from someone who say he works for a PR firm (only slightly false, probably works for a PR firm paid by the McCain campaign.

Bootlegged
09-22-2008, 04:55 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fpjAs4vtc1w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fpjAs4vtc1w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

patteeu
09-22-2008, 04:56 PM
First of all, there is no evidence that there is a connection to the Obama campaign.

Second, while there is no evidence that Palin was once a member of the AIP, her husband was, and she spoke to their convention. I'm not defending lying, but at least this is somewhat based in truth... As opposed to the McCain camp which just flat out lies.

I think you're a little biased when you make your judgments about what constitute flat out lies.

RJ
09-22-2008, 04:56 PM
To pretend Obama's camp is lily white is just silly.


Racist!!

clemensol
09-22-2008, 05:30 PM
I think you're a little biased when you make your judgments about what constitute flat out lies.

Obviously I am... Though I don't see what else to call it when McCain goes up to an audience and says "Obama will raise your taxes. I will cut them"

patteeu
09-22-2008, 05:36 PM
Obviously I am... Though I don't see what else to call it when McCain goes up to an audience and says "Obama will raise your taxes. I will cut them"

I'd say that you should call the former a near certainty and the latter a probable lie. From my biased, but I think fair in this case, pov, Obama's smear about McCain wanting 100 more years of fighting was a more blatant lie.

clemensol
09-22-2008, 06:17 PM
I'd say that you should call the former a near certainty and the latter a probable lie. From my biased, but I think fair in this case, pov, Obama's smear about McCain wanting 100 more years of fighting was a more blatant lie.

Did Obama actually say 100 more years of fighting? As far as I know, he just said McCain was ok with 100 more years IN Iraq, which, while deceitful, was not a flat out lie.

Logical
09-22-2008, 07:12 PM
Did Obama actually say 100 more years of fighting? As far as I know, he just said McCain was ok with 100 more years IN Iraq, which, while deceitful, was not a flat out lie.

I don't know what Obama said I cannot even find a YouTube on the subject. But if your statement above is correct, then it is not even close to a lie. It is pretty much 100% what McCain said. See it, mainly hear it, for yourself.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFknKVjuyNk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFknKVjuyNk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Taco John
09-22-2008, 07:22 PM
Barack Obama is finished. Republicans aren't going to stand for the same tactics being used against them...

clemensol
09-22-2008, 09:06 PM
I don't know what Obama said I cannot even find a YouTube on the subject. But if your statement above is correct, then it is not even close to a lie. It is pretty much 100% what McCain said. See it, mainly hear it, for yourself.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFknKVjuyNk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFknKVjuyNk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I support Obama 100% in the election, but I would have to say that he intentionally stretched the truth on this one and was close to lying. Numerous times he said that McCain was fine with 100 years of war in Iraq when McCain was clearly saying he was only ok with a 100 year troop presence in a situation similar to japan or germany. While I find that to be a horrifying proposition, it is certainly different from 100 years of war.

Logical
09-22-2008, 09:55 PM
I support Obama 100% in the election, but I would have to say that he intentionally stretched the truth on this one and was close to lying. Numerous times he said that McCain was fine with 100 years of war in Iraq when McCain was clearly saying he was only ok with a 100 year troop presence in a situation similar to japan or germany. While I find that to be a horrifying proposition, it is certainly different from 100 years of war.We have not had troops to occupy a nation since the late 40s. Basically we have had foreign bases certainly not limited to Japan and German, see England, most of northern Europe, Italy, and later S. Korea. Not in my opinion similar to Iraq at all.

patteeu
09-23-2008, 05:22 AM
Did Obama actually say 100 more years of fighting? As far as I know, he just said McCain was ok with 100 more years IN Iraq, which, while deceitful, was not a flat out lie.

It was actually "war" rather than "fighting", but you can be the judge of whether that makes any difference. Here are a couple of the quotes from Obama:

"[H]e (McCain) says that he is willing to send our troops into another 100 years of war in Iraq" (Barack Obama, Feb. 19, 2008) (http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/02/sweet_yall_know_how_to_do_it_i.html)

"[W]e are bogged down in a war that John McCain now suggests might go on for another 100 years" (Barack Obama, Feb. 26, 2008) (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us/politics/26text-debate.html?pagewanted=all)

This, despite the fact that McCain clearly couched his 100 year comment in terms that indicated that his support was contingent on US casualties dropping to negligible levels and on the presence being something like our current presence in South Korea or Japan. :shrug:

tiptap
09-23-2008, 06:06 AM
It would be clearer if McCain would indicate a framework with more concrete markers for when we could drop our presence to something similar to Korea. Another difference is that there is generally a push by the Iraqi Government to get us out altogether. So that implies that in wishing a presence for 100 years we do so forcefully. That implies occupation not stationing. I do understand that McCain says if we are asked we would leave yet he acts as this is never really a consideration except in the abstract.

patteeu
09-23-2008, 06:12 AM
It would be clearer if McCain would indicate a framework with more concrete markers for when we could drop our presence to something similar to Korea. Another difference is that there is generally a push by the Iraqi Government to get us out altogether. So that implies that in wishing a presence for 100 years we do so forcefully. That implies occupation not stationing. I do understand that McCain says if we are asked we would leave yet he acts as this is never really a consideration except in the abstract.

First of all, McCain didn't express a "wish" to stay for 100 years, he expressed a "willingness" to stay for 100 years "if necessary".

Second, Obama's characterizations were lies whether McCain's statement was clear about exactly when our presence would transform into a more Korea-like presence or not. McCain was clear that his "100 years" were not "100 years of war".

tiptap
09-23-2008, 06:26 AM
Will this is a hot item for you patteeu. It has been too expensive for too little results for me. We should have cut our loses a long time ago. It would be more striking if the war had traction in the first place with people.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2008, 08:33 AM
Obama has lost all his clean and new and not old line politics hat. He and his people have lowered the bar to levels never seen before.

BigChiefFan
09-23-2008, 08:36 AM
Obama has lost all his clean and new and not old line politics hat. He and his people have lowered the bar to levels never seen before.
You can pull your head out of your ass now.

ChiTown
09-23-2008, 08:58 AM
Barack Obama is finished. Republicans aren't going to stand for the same tactics being used against them...

:LOL: