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DaKCMan AP
09-22-2008, 10:15 AM
Poll shows gap between blacks and whites over racial discrimination

<cite>By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer

</cite> WASHINGTON (AP) Since the nation's birth, Americans have discussed race and avoided it, organized neighborhoods and political movements around it, and used it to divide and hurt people even as relations have improved dramatically since the days of slavery, Reconstruction and legal segregation.

Now, in what could be a historic year for a black presidential candidate, a new Associated Press-Yahoo! News poll, conducted with Stanford University, shows just how wide a gap remains between whites and blacks.

It shows that a substantial portion of white Americans still harbor negative feelings toward blacks. It shows that blacks and whites disagree tremendously on how much racial prejudice exists, whose fault it is and how much influence blacks have in politics.

One result is that Barack Obama's path to the presidency is steeper than it would be if he were white.

Until now, social scientists have not closely examined racial sentiments on a nationwide scale at a moment when race is central to choosing the next president. The poll, which featured a large sample of Americans more than 2,200 and sophisticated survey techniques rarely used in media surveys, reflected the complexity, change and occasional contradictions of race relations.

More whites apply positive attributes to blacks than negative ones, and blacks are even more generous in their descriptions of whites. Racial prejudice is lower among college-educated whites living outside the South. And many whites who think most blacks are somewhat lazy, violent or boastful are willing or even eager to vote for Obama over Republican John McCain, who is white.

The poll, however, shows that blacks and whites see racial discrimination in starkly different terms. When asked "how much discrimination against blacks" exists, 10 percent of whites said "a lot" and 45 percent said "some."
Among blacks, 57 percent said "a lot" and all but a fraction of the rest said "some."

Asked how much of America's existing racial tension is created by blacks, more than one-third of white respondents said "most" or "all," and 9 percent said "not much." Only 3 percent of blacks said "most" or "all," while half said "not much at all."

Nearly three-fourths of blacks said white people have too much influence in American politics. Only 12 percent of whites agreed. Almost three times as many blacks as whites said blacks have too little influence.

Far more blacks than whites say government officials "usually pay less attention to a request or complaint from a black person than a white person."

One in five whites have felt admiration for blacks "very" or "extremely" often. Seventy percent of blacks have felt the same about whites.

The poll may surprise those who thought Obama's appeal to young voters proves Americans in their 20s and 30s are clearly less racially biased than their parents. The survey found no meaningful differences among age groups in whites' perceptions of blacks, although older whites appear more likely to discuss their views.

Some findings fall into the glass half-empty or half-full category. One-fourth of white Democrats ascribed at least two negative attributes to blacks. But two-thirds of those Democrats said they will vote for Obama.

That finding alone could nourish a debate about how much harm is done by racial prejudices that seem to have modest influence on how people behave.

Kelly Edmondson, 34, of Cincinnati, is a white Democrat enthusiastic about backing Obama. The country needs a new direction, she said, and "I feel like he can reach a lot of people."

She cares for her two sets of young twins during the day and teaches college at night; most of her students are black. In the survey, Edmondson said positive words such as "hardworking" and "intelligent" describe most blacks "very well." She said a few negative traits, such as "lazy" and "irresponsible," apply "somewhat well" to most blacks.

In a telephone interview, Edmondson said those attributes apply equally to all races. She fretted that some of her fellow Ohioans might be less candid, privately planning to vote for McCain when they publicly say they are "on the fence."

"I worry about that," she said.

Polls consistently show Obama running about even with McCain, or leading by a notably smaller margin than the one Democrats enjoy over Republicans in most generic surveys about which party is best suited to govern.

The AP-Yahoo News poll suggests that racial prejudice could cost Obama up to 6 percentage points this fall. That's a big hurdle in a nation whose last two presidential elections were decided by much smaller margins.

Charles Crozier, 73, of Marietta, Ga., said he is a "quasi-independent" Democrat who is undecided on the presidential contest. He likes McCain on energy issues, including his call for more nuclear energy. But he prefers Obama's stands on economic issues.

Crozier, who is white, said race is not a factor in his thinking. He said he's not sure "how much of an issue it is for (other) people" in his community. It frustrates him to hear people incorrectly state that Obama (who is Christian) is a Muslim because they read it on the Internet.

"I'm old enough to know a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth," Crozier said. "You can't change their minds."

Racial progress in America is undeniable on many fronts. But millions of white and black Americans still barely interact at all, bringing the very term "race relations" into question.

"There's still a lot of estrangement out there" between the races, said David Bositis, who writes about racial matters at the Washington-based Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. "There's still an enormous amount of segregation."

Even with sophisticated polls, it's hard to measure the progress, or lack of progress, in race relations.

"The prior forms of racism, with hindsight, were relatively easy to deal with," said Kenneth O'Reilly, who has written books on racial politics and now teaches history at Milwaukee Area Technical College. He cited slavery, lynchings and legal and de facto segregation.

Now, he said, racial prejudices and grievances are more subtle. "If you ask 100 people what is the main color line problem today," he said, "you get 100 answers."

The AP-Yahoo News poll of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27-Sept. 5, and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points. It was designed to plumb people's racial attitudes, and particularly how those attitudes affect voting.

The survey used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, of Menlo Park, Calif., including questions about how well words like "friendly" or "violent" describe blacks; having respondents type sensitive answers into computers, which tends to make them more honest; and using brief flashes of faces of people of different races to detect that people may not be aware they have.

Stanford University political scientist Paul Sniderman said that in today's society, racial prejudice "is a deep challenge, and it's one that Americans in general, and for that matter, political scientists, just haven't been ready to acknowledge fully."

For minority candidates such as Obama, he said, "there's a penalty for prejudice, and it's not trivial." If the presidential contest remains close, he said, racial prejudice "might be enough to tip the election."

http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-race-in-america;_ylt=Arep0jvmT46Rg1rKEo8ZSHSs0NUE

DaKCMan AP
09-22-2008, 10:15 AM
http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/elections/ap_poll_race_america.jpg

mlyonsd
09-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Interesting article. If that 6% thing is true it's sad.

I wonder if that same 6% transcends over to the black population. Meaning I wonder if there will be 6% more voter turnout by blacks because Obama is a candidate and they have a choice that isn't white.

StcChief
09-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Tell something new....

Mr. Kotter
09-22-2008, 10:46 AM
Wow.

Shocking.

Who'd have thunk it?

StcChief
09-22-2008, 10:52 AM
SSD Century

Pitt Gorilla
09-22-2008, 11:05 AM
One in five whites have felt admiration for blacks "very" or "extremely" often. Seventy percent of blacks have felt the same about whites. That is quite a difference. Wow.

jidar
09-22-2008, 12:30 PM
There are racists all over this damned board, I know that for fact.

ROYC75
09-22-2008, 01:18 PM
There are racists all over this damned board, I know that for fact.


Balderdash ...........:eek:

penchief
09-23-2008, 06:35 AM
I'm afraid that this is going to be the pre-excuse for when the power quo steals another election.

It'll be just another "you can't believe the polls or the exit polls" line of bullshit.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 07:07 AM
I'm afraid that this is going to be the pre-excuse for when the power quo steals another election.

It'll be just another "you can't believe the polls or the exit polls" line of bullshit.


If Obama loses, it will be because too many independent and Democratic voters....are still more racist than I believe and I hope we are.

It will have nothing to do with wild-assed conspiracy theories, or clandestine tomfoolery by those dastardly Republicans.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 07:10 AM
There are racists all over this damned board, I know that for fact.

"All over?" Not really. There are some--and at least a couple of them...are black too.

penchief
09-23-2008, 07:18 AM
If Obama loses, it will be because too many independent and Democratic voters....are still more racist than I believe.

It will have nothing to do with wild-assed conspiracy theories, or clandestine tomfoolery by those dastardly Republicans.

The polls have been intentionally discredited prior to the last two elections. The exit polls, which have historically been very accurate, were discredited in 2000. There is no reason to believe that this will not be used as an excuse when Obama goes into the election with a 6% lead and somehow loses.

IMO, the horrible state of the nation renders the Bradley Effect pretty much irrelevent. Anyone who would vote for more of the same catastrophic policies simply because the superior candidate is African American is an idiot of the nth degree. Even as cynical and disillusioned as I have become, I just don't think there are that many complete idiots out there. Political affiliation and blind partisanship will be the reason someone votes for McCain, not so much because needed change comes in the form of a black man.

If the corporate media starts playing this angle hard leading up to the election the voting public should be very wary as to why.

JMO.

StcChief
09-23-2008, 07:19 AM
If Obama loses, it will be because too many independent and Democratic voters....are still more racist than I believe and I hope we are.

It will have nothing to do with wild-assed conspiracy theories, or clandestine tomfoolery by those dastardly Republicans. like it or not remove the peace love Rose coloured glasses.....

The country is the same. The only way it changes is when the folks that continue to ask for hand outs won't do things for themselves CHANGE THAT behavior.... Obama is a bright star of HOPE, doesn't mean all will CHANGE

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 07:28 AM
like it or not remove the peace love Rose coloured glasses.....

The country is the same. The only way it changes is when the folks that continue to ask for hand outs won't do things for themselves CHANGE THAT behavior.... Obama is a bright star of HOPE, doesn't mean all will CHANGE

I think I understand what you mean by that....and wouldn't disagree really.

But I also understand there are still racist folks in the country; it's pretty obvious. My only question is how many are left among Democratic and "independent" voters. I, obviously, think there are still some....I've been warning all along about the "Bradley Effect." I just hope it less than is needed for him to "win."

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 07:30 AM
The polls have been intentionally discredited prior to the last two elections. The exit polls, which have historically been very accurate, were discredited in 2000. There is no reason to believe that this will not be used as an excuse when Obama goes into the election with a 6% lead and somehow loses.

IMO, the horrible state of the nation renders the Bradley Effect pretty much irrelevent. Anyone who would vote for more of the same catastrophic policies simply because the superior candidate is African American is an idiot of the nth degree. Even as cynical and disillusioned as I have become, I just don't think there are that many complete idiots out there. Political affiliation and blind partisanship will be the reason someone votes for McCain, not so much because needed change comes in the form of a black man.

If the corporate media starts playing this angle hard leading up to the election the voting public should be very wary as to why.

JMO.

Polling is an incredibly inexact science, subject to all sorts of distortions and an inability to predict voter behavior at a particular point in time.

From your point of view, it would appear that any election in which people don't agree with you and your take on the election....must be "corrupt" or fraud. That's just laugable.

penchief
09-23-2008, 07:33 AM
Polling is an incredibly inexact science, subject to all sorts of distortions and an inability to predict voter behavior at a particular point in time.

From your point of view, it would appear that any election in which people don't agree with you and your take on the election....must be "corrupt" or fraud. That's just laugable.

No, I just don't believe that it is a coincidence that the polls are all of a sudden consistently way off base. Especially the exit polls. Exit polls have historically been very accurate. I don't buy into "the voters lied to the exit pollers" bullshit. Voters have absolutely no reason to lie.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 09:10 AM
No, I just don't believe that it is a coincidence that the polls are all of a sudden consistently way off base. Especially the exit polls. Exit polls have historically been very accurate. I don't buy into "the voters lied to the exit pollers" bullshit. Voters have absolutely no reason to lie.

Bullshit.

I'm one of them; I lie to those bastards every chance I get. Seriously.

I can't stand their constant polling, surveys, parsing of language, biased questions, and load-language they use. So that's my way of telling them to go fugg themselves.

I know, for a fact, others that I know do the same thing.

penchief
09-23-2008, 09:36 AM
Bullshit.

I'm one of them; I lie to those bastards every chance I get. Seriously.

I can't stand their constant polling, surveys, parsing of language, biased questions, and load-language they use. So that's my way of telling them to go fugg themselves.

I know, for a fact, others that I know do the same thing.

Regarding the exit polls, why would you undermine one of the more effective tools that we the people have by which to validate the integrity of our elections? Is it your desire to promote doubt and fraud regarding our democratic process? I would expect right wing zealots to undermine and belittle accountability but it seems completely counterproductive for voters to piss in their own cheerios.

I would be ashamed to do such a thing.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 09:47 AM
Regarding the exit polls, why would you undermine one of the more effective tools that we the people have by which to validate the integrity of our elections? Is it your desire to promote doubt and fraud regarding our democratic process? I would expect right wing zealots to undermine and belittle accountability but it seems completely counterproductive for voters to piss in their own cheerios.

I would be ashamed to do such a thing.

More effective tools? They are a joke. With their lame questions, abstract correlations, loaded language, manipulation of results, unfounded cause and effect conclusions, and selective publication of "results".....they are worthless.

Doubt about our democratic process? No, it's doubt and scorn of the manipulative polling process that these idiots engage in.

The other thing is....seriously, a whole lot of conservative voters share my disdain, and have better ways to use their time than to participate in their silly bullshit. Research has been pretty clear in demonstrating liberals tend to participate in this crap more than most conservatives, because of lame-brained idealism that they are somehow providing a useful service by being played by pollsters. Give me a friggin' break; most of them are a complete joke.

People who choose to cooperate with these bastards need to get a real life.

Pitt Gorilla
09-23-2008, 10:02 AM
"All over?" Not really. There are some--and at least a couple of them...are black too.He said racists; that implies people of various colors.

Pitt Gorilla
09-23-2008, 10:04 AM
Regarding the exit polls, why would you undermine one of the more effective tools that we the people have by which to validate the integrity of our elections? Is it your desire to promote doubt and fraud regarding our democratic process? I would expect right wing zealots to undermine and belittle accountability but it seems completely counterproductive for voters to piss in their own cheerios.

I would be ashamed to do such a thing.People who lie don't have a problem with lying. That seems to be true in general.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 10:29 AM
People who lie don't have a problem with lying. That seems to be true in general.


People who are complete assholes don't have a problem with being a complete asshole. That seems to be true in your case at least.

Pitt Gorilla
09-23-2008, 10:32 AM
People who are complete assholes don't have a problem with being a complete asshole. That seems to be true in your case at least.Do you disagree with the statement?

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Do you disagree with the statement?

Lying to pollsters (who then lie/misrepresent to the public,) is a "fib" at best. Certainly less egregious than lying about sex under oath in a court case, or committing adultery.

I'd much, much rather be guilty of the former, than the latter. And a whole lot of folks seeminly don't have much of a problem with the latter, so I'd consider it a very small fault.

***SPRAYER
09-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Who gives a shit.

Inspector
09-23-2008, 02:11 PM
Sometimes I wonder if racism would end if nobody paid any attention to race.

I never hear any polls about how blue eyed people and green eyed people think.

And those are colors too.

Mr. Kotter
09-23-2008, 02:24 PM
The Bradley Effect... :shake:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/race.politics/index.html

Race could play big role in election, poll suggests
Story Highlights
- Racial prejudices could cost Sen. Barack Obama 6 percentage points, poll suggests
- Poll: Forty percent of white Americans have at least a partly negative view of blacks
- Experts point out that it's hard to quantify racial attitudes
- Democrats typically get close to 90 percent of the African-American vote

(CNN) -- A new study that surveyed racial attitudes suggests that racial prejudices could tip the balance in the upcoming presidential election.

If there were no racial prejudice among voters, Sen. Barack Obama would receive about 6 percentage points more support, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll, designed in partnership with Stanford University.

The results suggest that 40 percent of white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, including more than a third of white Democrats and independents. A small percentage of voters -- 2.5 percent of those surveyed -- said they may turn away from Obama because of his race.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey also indicates that race could play a big role in November. Asked if race would be a factor in their vote, 37 percent of respondents said yes. But of that group, many are Republicans who are not likely to vote for any Democrat, and some are Democrats who may vote for Obama because of his race.

Of the 8 percent of Democrats who told CNN they plan to vote for Obama's GOP rival, Sen. John McCain, half said race was a factor.

The survey, conducted August 29-31, questioned 1,031 people and has a sampling error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

Experts point out that it's hard to quantify racial prejudice because many people who hold prejudices are not going to admit to it. Watch how race could affect the election

"The hardest thing in the world for pollsters to poll for, with the exception of sexual behavior, is racial attitudes and how it affects behavior," said Walter Shapiro, Washington bureau chief for Salon.com. Shapiro said while people might say things differently off the record, racial issues cannot easily be quantified.

The pollsters for the AP/Yahoo survey used techniques that they thought would be more likely to lead to honest results -- such as conducting the poll online and using subtle methods and formulas to calculate racial attitudes.

That study also suggests that the number of people who may turn away from Obama because of his race could be larger than what the margin of victory was in the 2004 election.

Jeff Johnson, host of BET's "The Truth With Jeff Johnson," said, "I think there is a concern clearly about the number of people who will vote based on race.

"But I agree -- how you quantify that number, I think, is very difficult."

According to CNN's average of recent national polls, Obama holds a lead of 5 percentage points over McCain.

Johnson said one misconception is that racial prejudices are unique to conservatives or people in "Middle America."

"There are liberals also in many cases that are racist. I don't think we know yet how it's going to play out," he said.

In an interview that aired Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes," Obama said while some people might not vote for him because he is black, others might vote for him just because he is.

"Are there going to be some people who don't vote for me because I'm black? Of course. There are probably some African-Americans who are voting for me because I'm black or maybe others just inspired by the idea of breaking new ground, and so I think all that's a wash," he said.

Democrats, however, typically get close to 90 percent of the African-American vote anyway.

Salon.com's Shapiro said Democrats can work on increasing turnout among black voters but that it will be hard to make gains on the percentages they already see.

Johnson said he thinks race will matter, and the best way for Obama to balance out any negative effect is to just stay on message.

"I don't know if I believe it's going to be a wash. I think it's going to matter. This race is extremely close, and so every single demographic and every single point is going to count," he said.

"I think he has to speak to the issues of people in Middle America, and by that, it can counterbalance some of these racial issues."

The AP-Yahoo News poll surveyed 2,227 adults. It was conducted August 27-September 5, and has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points

penchief
09-23-2008, 02:34 PM
The Bradley Effect... :shake:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/race.politics/index.html

As I said, the more the corporate media plays up the "Bradley Effect," the more suspicious I'd be as to why.

Ultra Peanut
09-23-2008, 03:11 PM
Gee, you think the people who actually see it on a daily basis are more aware of it than those who don't?