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Logical
09-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Honest this makes no sense. I don't see why we think we should stop Iran when we enabled Pakistan. I think they are both Islamic fundamentalist states who cannot be trusted in a different way.

Your thoughts?

Friendo
09-22-2008, 09:04 PM
Israel & the hostage crisis--with these cynical bastards I don't doubt for a minute that they view Iran as an easy political tool.

Logical
09-22-2008, 09:06 PM
Israel & the hostage crisis--with these cynical bastards I don't doubt for a minute that they view Iran as an easy political tool.I am not disagreeing but I find the following contrast strange.

Pakistan - India
Iran - Israel

Friendo
09-22-2008, 09:11 PM
I am not disagreeing but I find the following contrast strange.

Pakistan - India
Iran - Israel

in what way?

Logical
09-22-2008, 09:31 PM
in what way?We let Pakistan have nukes to balance out India.

I see no reason not to allow Iran to have nukes to balance out Israel.

Pakistan = Israel (in my mind Pakistan is also as bad for terrorism threat)

Friendo
09-22-2008, 09:40 PM
We let Pakistan have nukes to balance out India.

I see no reason not to allow Iran to have nukes to balance out Israel.

Pakistan = Israel (in my mind Pakistan is also as bad for terrorism threat)

for sure they are now--not justifying but that balancing was done pre-9/11. total disarmament is the way imo:

http://www.middlepowers.org/

Logical
09-22-2008, 10:02 PM
for sure they are now--not justifying but that balancing was done pre-9/11. total disarmament is the way imo:

http://www.middlepowers.org/That might be a negotiating obstacle greater than peace in the ME.

Friendo
09-22-2008, 10:08 PM
That might be a negotiating obstacle greater than peace in the ME.

no doubt but half-measures are increasingly less likely to be effective in this "advanced" world we live in. an ironic parallel (to me at least) to Hamas' reference to half-measures on the economy in NewPhin's thread.

clemensol
09-22-2008, 10:10 PM
If we weren't afraid of something in the world, then how could the government expect us to support massive military spending?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-22-2008, 10:17 PM
If we weren't afraid of something in the world, then how could the government expect us to support massive military spending?

you got it! ;)

Logical
09-22-2008, 10:20 PM
If we weren't afraid of something in the world, then how could the government expect us to support massive military spending?Ouch, that is probably a much greater player in our Foreign Policy than most people would ever guess.

bango
09-22-2008, 10:34 PM
I am no economist, but I would have to say that it has to do with the fact that Pakistan does have a Government that is U. S. Friendly. It does hang by a thread and will probably be overtaken any day now so I actually just cancelled myself out. Does anyone here know history enough to say if Pakistan has ever actually done anything crazy as a nation. The only thing that I can think of is the fact that the population mostly hates us and that can not be good.
Iran does not have a good track record of being friendly. It seems that their people are not that bad just the people that are running things and have been more or less for the past thirtyish years. Iran is seomwhat like us, decent people and yet bad government.

Frankie
09-22-2008, 10:35 PM
If we weren't afraid of something in the world, then how could the government expect us to support massive military spending?

Ding ding ding ding,.... WE HAVE A WINNER!

StcChief
09-23-2008, 08:15 AM
I am no economist, but I would have to say that it has to do with the fact that Pakistan does have a Government that is U. S. Friendly. It does hang by a thread and will probably be overtaken any day now so I actually just cancelled myself out. Does anyone here know history enough to say if Pakistan has ever actually done anything crazy as a nation. The only thing that I can think of is the fact that the population mostly hates us and that can not be good.
Iran does not have a good track record of being friendly. It seems that their people are not that bad just the people that are running things and have been more or less for the past thirtyish years. Iran is seomwhat like us, decent people and yet bad government.
I worry more now that Pakistan is very unstable.... if I'm India, watch 'em like a hawk and be ready for an attack.

patteeu
09-23-2008, 10:37 AM
We let Pakistan have nukes to balance out India

Honest this makes no sense. I don't see why we think we should stop Iran when we enabled Pakistan. ...

Your thoughts?

My thoughts are that you should brush up on your nuclear proliferation history. Western nations made several blunders that allowed Pakistan to go nuclear, but if you're suggesting that we intentionally allowed Pakistan to develop a nuclear weapon, I think you've got it wrong.

Check out this book:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51c0jDsUlnL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_AA219_PIsitb-sticker-dp-top,TopLeft,25,-40_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Nuclear-Jihadist-Dangerous-Secrets-Stopped/dp/0446199575)

patteeu
09-23-2008, 10:42 AM
The most important answer to your question is that Pakistan already has a nuke and Iran can theoretically still be stopped. If they've already cleared all the technical hurdles, it may be too late, practically speaking, to stop them.

RINGLEADER
09-23-2008, 10:44 AM
Honest this makes no sense. I don't see why we think we should stop Iran when we enabled Pakistan. I think they are both Islamic fundamentalist states who cannot be trusted in a different way.

Your thoughts?

One already has 'em and one doesn't. One borders an enemy that has nukes as well. They're both unstable crazy regimes that support terrorism. If the idea is to have partners help in the fight on terror you would think that we'd tie economic support of the Pakis to more than the cursory once every could years incursion into the tribal region to prove their commitment.

Thankfully, we're starting to hit them. And if Obama is elected he's pledged to go in full force to root out the terror elements whether Pakistan allows it or not. :rolleyes:

RINGLEADER
09-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Here's a good article on the mess you speak of:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2368174.ece

bango
09-23-2008, 06:29 PM
I worry more now that Pakistan is very unstable.... if I'm India, watch 'em like a hawk and be ready for an attack.

India can take care of them and they will. India is such a nice power. They do not mess with us. They have problems with what could end up being a major problem for us.