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View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs have done the right thing with Herb Taylor


Boris The Great
09-29-2008, 02:01 AM
I thought the game should have been proof enough of this, but amazingly I see a bunch of posts actually criticizing the coaching staff because Herb Taylor - who if you missed it, came right in at LT and hardly missed a beat - hasnt been playing at RT the past few games.

WHAT?

Try looking at the big picture when you think about this. Would Taylor be an upgrade over McIntosh at RT? Probably, yes. But what if Albert gets hurt? And its not as if that was unexpected, with him getting hurt in both minicamp and training camp with the same foot injury. Thankfully his injury in the game had nothing to do with that foot, but obviously the coaches considered the possibility that they may be without him at some point because it has been reported several times that Taylor hasnt taken snaps at RT.

Isnt it valuable to have a backup LT who can come in off the bench and play the way Taylor did?

Just think: what if they benched McIntosh a few weeks ago and put in Taylor? What would have happened when Albert got hurt? McIntosh would be the new LT, thats what. Who in the world wants to see that?

Or if they didnt do that, they would mix up everything and move Taylor back from RT to LT and put McIntosh back at RT after benching him, which is an even worse idea. McIntosh would be worse off at RT than he is now because he wouldnt have been getting the practice reps with the starters. To say nothing of the fact that he was benched and probably even less confident. And Taylor would be worse off at LT than he is now because he would have been trying to get things down at RT and would have to readjust on the fly.

Its like someone asking you if you want $50 today or $5 every day for 20 days. A lot of you would apparently take the $50 today. But the team looked at the bigger picture and kept Taylor working at LT. And look what happened, he came in and played well.

The bottom line is that if the team had benched McIntosh for Taylor at any point, they would be WORSE OFF right now than they actually are. Because they handled things well, hopefully we will get through Alberts injury with as little damage as possible. Instead of the days when we had a scrub like Jordan Black filling in for Willie Roaf, the team is actually being smart about their backup at one of the most important positions on the team.

And people here want to criticize them for it! Its amazing.

Basileus777
09-29-2008, 02:05 AM
Depth is important, but you want your best offensive linemen starting, particularly when the alternative is to have a sieve playing at RT every game. I'd rather have Herb start at RT and deal with an injury when it occurs, even if it means having McIntosh as the backup LT.

chiefbowe82
09-29-2008, 02:06 AM
I guess I'm confused your saying it's a good idea to start mcintosh cause it was obvious albert was going to hyperextend his elbow? Lets reverse thought what if mcintosh got hurt and taylor had to play RT...wait that never happens

Mecca
09-29-2008, 02:13 AM
You start your best guys you don't put your 2nd best OT as your backup LT.

Sure-Oz
09-29-2008, 02:17 AM
Just cut Mcintosh

BigRock
09-29-2008, 02:22 AM
I guess I'm confused your saying it's a good idea to start mcintosh cause it was obvious albert was going to hyperextend his elbow?

I'm not saying he's injury prone or any such thing like in that other thread, but the fact that Albert got hurt should not have come as a shock to anyone. If they were considering the possibility that he'd be hurt, presumably they thought it would be the foot that had been giving him trouble prior to the season. It ended up being a fluke elbow injury, but if he's missing time then he's missing time.

I was saying this same stuff earlier about Taylor. It's a unique situation because they had a right to be cautious with Albert. It's clear the team wanted to keep Taylor at LT because he hasn't been working on the right side. They must have had this scenario in mind and it ended up coming to pass. Now they've got a guy who can come right in without much of a dropoff, hopefully.

It ended up being a good move.

chiefbowe82
09-29-2008, 02:36 AM
I'm not saying he's injury prone or any such thing like in that other thread, but the fact that Albert got hurt should not have come as a shock to anyone. If they were considering the possibility that he'd be hurt, presumably they thought it would be the foot that had been giving him trouble prior to the season. It ended up being a fluke elbow injury, but if he's missing time then he's missing time.

I was saying this same stuff earlier about Taylor. It's a unique situation because they had a right to be cautious with Albert. It's clear the team wanted to keep Taylor at LT because he hasn't been working on the right side. They must have had this scenario in mind and it ended up coming to pass. Now they've got a guy who can come right in without much of a dropoff, hopefully.

It ended up being a good move.

I kindly disagree with you, You put your best OT's on the field, especially if they're young, maybe he should have been practicing with the right side then, who cares if albert gets hurt and we have to worry about a drop off..we're not trying to win a superbowl this year we're trying to devlop talent. Also why I believe Franklin/Webb, Carr, Williams should be starting.

RustShack
09-29-2008, 02:40 AM
McIntosh isn't that bad of a LT and is a better one than he is RT... even now I would rather McIntosh be the LT and Taylor be the RT.

chiefs1111
09-29-2008, 03:52 AM
You start your best guys you don't put your 2nd best OT as your backup LT.

Unless you are Herm Edwards that is

Frankie
09-29-2008, 10:14 AM
If Herb can play RT, why not have him be the starter there and make McIntosh Albert's backup? He was better at LT than he is at RT anyway.

Chief Faithful
09-29-2008, 10:37 AM
Two reasons to start Taylor at RT:
1. You put your best players on the field
2. You put your players in the position where they are their best

Taylor is the best RT and second best OT on the roster. McIntoad is much better at LT than RT. Thus, both requirements are met.

Additional reasons:
1. McIntoads bad knee he is better at backup where there is less daily wear
2. Now is the time to develop the young linemen not after the rebuilding is complete
3. There is no reason to develop a 31 year old tackle

It makes no sense to me why McIntoad is the starting RT.

CoMoChief
09-29-2008, 10:46 AM
McIntosh was alright playing LT when he was healthy.

He completely sucks making the transition to RT though.

Taylor would be a helluva upgrade over McIntosh at RT.......you put your best lineman on the field. Taylor is our teams 2nd best (maybe first as of now, but Albert will be the best given time) OT.....he needs to start.

More pass protection means more passing plays downfield which means more of an opened up running game which means more points.....etc.

Albert, Waters, Niswanger, Richarson, Taylor is what I would love to have.

NO ONE would be pushing Richardson off the line........I'd bet my house on that.

Mr. Laz
09-29-2008, 11:00 AM
so sacrifice our starting lineup for depth


Brilliant!!!

blueballs
09-29-2008, 11:28 AM
Do they need a vet next to Jones
asking the Herb to learn next to Jones may ruin him

bringbackmarty
09-29-2008, 12:08 PM
Taylor=LTOF
Huard=qb rest of season.
Albert=rg or bust.

Frankie
09-30-2008, 02:26 PM
Two reasons to start Taylor at RT:
1. You put your best players on the field
2. You put your players in the position where they are their best

Taylor is the best RT and second best OT on the roster. McIntoad is much better at LT than RT. Thus, both requirements are met.

Additional reasons:
1. McIntoads bad knee he is better at backup where there is less daily wear
2. Now is the time to develop the young linemen not after the rebuilding is complete
3. There is no reason to develop a 31 year old tackle

It makes no sense to me why McIntoad is the starting RT.

Good post. But I'm not sure your reason 2 (top) is necessarily the case (though I hope you are right). From all I've read Taylor was a LT in college. I have never heard that RT is his best position.

TrickyNicky
09-30-2008, 02:29 PM
Jones was solid. He is getting better at pulling too. Watch LJ's 15 yard run early in the 3rd quarter from Clay's highlights. He absolutely squashes the safety.

RustShack
09-30-2008, 02:31 PM
McIntosh seems to be getting a little better at RT too... Which could make Herm put Taylor back on the bench when Albert comes back :(

MIAdragon
09-30-2008, 02:32 PM
You start your best guys you don't put your 2nd best OT as your backup LT.

No shit is this that hard to understand!?

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 02:35 PM
Dude. NO. You put your best payers on the field. The same reason Albert played guard in college.

cookster50
09-30-2008, 02:36 PM
Taylor=LTOF
Huard=qb rest of season.
Albert=rg or bust.

???/

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 02:38 PM
AND I guarantee Taylor would be more ready to switch over to left if he'd been playing RT than if he'd been sitting on the ****in bench.

Chief Faithful
09-30-2008, 02:39 PM
Good post. But I'm not sure your reason 2 (top) is necessarily the case (though I hope you are right). From all I've read Taylor was a LT in college. I have never heard that RT is his best position.

Point 2 holds true for McIntoad. He is purely an LT and has not been able to adjust to RT. Taylor has been great at LT, no doubt, but he also proved very capable at RT last year. Plus, if you want to invest time to develop a RT why not invest in the 24 year old not the 31 year old.

DaFace
09-30-2008, 02:45 PM
I think we should start Cottam at TE instead of Gonzo. You know, for depth.

BigRock
09-30-2008, 03:44 PM
No shit is this that hard to understand!?

Is it so hard to understand that the team wanted to be careful, given that Albert had a foot issue? And that they wanted a steady backup at left tackle, BY FAR the more important position of the two?

WHAT NO THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 03:53 PM
Is it so hard to understand that the team wanted to be careful, given that Albert had a foot issue? And that they wanted a steady backup at left tackle, BY FAR the more important position of the two?

WHAT NO THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK

He could go play the left, if Albert went down.

LIke I said, experience on the right side prepares you for the left better than sitting on the bench.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 03:54 PM
He could go play the left, if Albert went down.

LIke I said, experience on the right side prepares you for the left better than sitting on the bench.

Yeah, that worked out SOOOOOOOO well for Jordan Black :rolleyes:

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 03:57 PM
Yeah, that worked out SOOOOOOOO well for Jordan Black :rolleyes:

Dude are you seriously throwing I-65 into this discussion? Are you saying Taylor should not be starting at right tackle over McInpuss. Don't let your urge to disagree with me make you post stupid shit. He should be our RT.

BigRock
09-30-2008, 04:04 PM
He could go play the left, if Albert went down.

LIke I said, experience on the right side prepares you for the left better than sitting on the bench.

I'm willing to bet that lining up at LT all through training camp, starting there during the preseason, and continuing to play LT when you practice prepares you for the left better than doing all those things, then suddenly switching over to the opposite side a week or two into the season and trying to learn that position, and then having to switch BACK again right in the middle of a game.

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm willing to bet that lining up at LT all through training camp, starting there during the preseason, and continuing to play LT when you practice prepares you for the left better than doing all those things, then suddenly switching over to the opposite side a week or two into the season and trying to learn that position, and then having to switch BACK again right in the middle of a game.

That may be true, but Herb should be our RT over Tosh. He's gonna be a pine rider for for 31 yr old loser, and if your gonna be a backup, lineman your gonna be moved all over the place. I'd rather him be put on the right side permanently, and McIntosh be the backup at the position he's been playing for 10 yrs.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 04:12 PM
Dude are you seriously throwing I-65 into this discussion? Are you saying Taylor should not be starting at right tackle over McInpuss. Don't let your urge to disagree with me make you post stupid shit. He should be our RT.

No, what I'm saying is that moving a guy from left to right and back and forth DOES NOT help him develop OR improve.

YOU have absolutely NO idea if Taylor would play as well on the right side as he does on the left. NONE WHATSOEVER.

Talk about stupid shit.

Speak for yourself...

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 04:19 PM
No, what I'm saying is that moving a guy from left to right and back and forth DOES NOT help him develop OR improve.

YOU have absolutely NO idea if Taylor would play as well on the right side as he does on the left. NONE WHATSOEVER.

Talk about stupid shit.

Speak for yourself...

I should not have left that stupid shit part out. I apologize.

It's just my opinion nothing more, but the Jordan Black reference got me riled. JB sucked at either side, Herb has looked good at BOTH positions. He looked solid AT RT last season. That's where I get the basis of opinion.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 04:24 PM
I should not have left that stupid shit part out. I apologize.

It's just my opinion nothing more, but the Jordan Black reference got me riled. JB sucked at either side, Herb has looked good at BOTH positions. He looked solid AT RT last season. That's where I get the basis of opinion.

I didn't see Herb at right tackle last season; only at left when he played for McInSuck.

Look, if Herb is the best right tackle on the squad, by all means, he should be starting.

But since he's the best left tackle backup on the squad and Albert's been hurt twice this season, I'm glad the Chiefs didn't move him to the right side just for the sake of being young because, you guessed it, DMac would be starting on the left side now.

And THAT would suck.

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Right now I think he is the best RT on the squad, and when Albert comes back McIntosh gets to stay on the field. And That sucks all season.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 04:26 PM
From KCChiefs.com:

Herb Taylor:
2007

Played in two games and was inactive for 11 contests … Played on special teams in his first NFL game vs. San Diego (12/2) ... Saw action at left tackle for injured Damion McIntosh at Detroit (12/23).



He's never played for the Chiefs on the right side of line. The right side is usually the "Road Grader" and Herb's only 6'3 and better suited for the left side.

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 04:27 PM
From KCChiefs.com:

Herb Taylor:
2007

Played in two games and was inactive for 11 contests … Played on special teams in his first NFL game vs. San Diego (12/2) ... Saw action at left tackle for injured Damion McIntosh at Detroit (12/23).

He started that game at LT, but played some RT as well.

BigRock
09-30-2008, 04:29 PM
That may be true, but Herb should be our RT over Tosh. He's gonna be a pine rider for for 31 yr old loser, and if your gonna be a backup, lineman your gonna be moved all over the place. I'd rather him be put on the right side permanently, and McIntosh be the backup at the position he's been playing for 10 yrs.

I'm not arguing that Taylor should play. I want to see him play. I would assume that if it had gotten farther along into the season and Albert showed he could stay healthy for an extended period of time, they probably would have felt okay about making that move.

It's the "LOLZ LOOK HOW STUPID OUR COACHES ARE" posts I find dumb. The way they handled things obviously turned out well. We're in a better situation now than we would have been otherwise.

J Diddy
09-30-2008, 04:30 PM
I didn't see Herb at right tackle last season; only at left when he played for McInSuck.

Look, if Herb is the best right tackle on the squad, by all means, he should be starting.

But since he's the best left tackle backup on the squad and Albert's been hurt twice this season, I'm glad the Chiefs didn't move him to the right side just for the sake of being young because, you guessed it, DMac would be starting on the left side now.

And THAT would suck.

Dmac didn't suck nearly as much at LT as he is at RT

beach tribe
09-30-2008, 04:32 PM
Dmac didn't suck nearly as much at LT as he is at RT

Exactly my thinking. The guy has been playing LT his entire career, except a few games. He should be the backup LT. Not that Herb is doing bad, but like MM has said all along, and before the season, Tosh is NOT a RT.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 04:35 PM
Dmac didn't suck nearly as much at LT as he is at RT

Wow, I certainly thought he sucked just as much, if not worse.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 04:37 PM
He started that game at LT, but played some RT as well.

I truly think you're mistaken:

Pro Career

Versatile offensive lineman can play either guard or tackle … Durable and consistent performer started every game of his collegiate career at TCU … Came on strong down the stretch as a rookie after joining the Chiefs as the club’s sixth-round selection (196th overall) in the 2007 NFL Draft … Looks to continue his development in his second pro campaign … Began the season working primarily at guard, but moved his way into the playing rotation at the left tackle position at Detroit (12/23) ... Promptly made a key block on his first offensive action to pave the way for a RB Jackie Battle one-yard TD run … Developing performer could battle for a starting spot on the offensive line … Continued to improve his strength and agility during the Chiefs off-season program … Has played in two regular season contests.

There's no mention of him playing the right side and having watched every single game last year, I never saw him line up on the right side.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/herb_taylor/

LOCOChief
09-30-2008, 04:57 PM
I wonder how the barry righardson project is coming?

jjchieffan
09-30-2008, 05:01 PM
You start your best guys you don't put your 2nd best OT as your backup LT.

Mecca, I don't believe I am saying this, but I agree completelt with you on this issue. Taylor needs to start. Everyone needs to remember what McinDouche was brought in for. A stop gap at LT. Thats what he needs to be. Let him be the stop gap now, while Albert is out. BTW. I heard Herm on Sirius Radio tody. He said Branden would likely miss this week and then come back after the bye week.

DaneMcCloud
09-30-2008, 05:02 PM
I wonder how the barry righardson project is coming?

It's going to be a long project with Richardson.

Strengths: Barry Richardson has the tools that NFL teams covet…he has shown flashes of brilliance and has been thoroughly dominating at times…has the game to excel in the pass blocking game as well as the run blocking game…from a physical standpoint Richardson projects to be an NFL LT…has a much higher ‘ceiling’ than several other of the offensive tackle prospects that will be selected around the same portion of the NFL Draft as is he…is quick off the snap of the football and plays with solid leverage…is a ‘high risk/high reward’ draft prospect, if he is able to fulfill his potential he will be a steal…


Weaknesses: Barry Richardson has battled inconsistency his entire career…seems to have had mental lapses at times and that is just one cause of the inconsistent play…at times throughout his collegiate career, Barry Richardson appeared to be shell of his former self…Barry Richardson will need some work on his proper technique—using his hand properly and developing better footwork is an absolute necessity…some prospects just never fulfill their potential—that is a concern surrounding Barry Richardson…there are some concerns about Richardson’s agility…


Overall: Barry Richardson, as a prospect, is an enigma. GMs and scouts waited for Barry Richardson to become the dominant force that he was projected to be while at Clemson, however, he never lived up to all the hype. Barry Richardson has the body and stature that the NFL looks for, but the inconsistency that he represents is his biggest hurdle. Barry Richardson can still fulfill his potential at the next level, but he needs to focus every down and avoid playing ‘too high’ and losing proper leverage.

milkman
09-30-2008, 09:05 PM
From KCChiefs.com:

Herb Taylor:
2007

Played in two games and was inactive for 11 contests … Played on special teams in his first NFL game vs. San Diego (12/2) ... Saw action at left tackle for injured Damion McIntosh at Detroit (12/23).



He's never played for the Chiefs on the right side of line. The right side is usually the "Road Grader" and Herb's only 6'3 and better suited for the left side.

generally speaking yoo do want a road grader, a guy that can hold his blocks and get a push.

Herb Taylor doesn't look the part, and aside from being 6'3" tall, he is also only 295, so you would assume he isn't that guy.

However, what Taylor excels at is getting underneath the D-Lineman's pads and getting leverage.

Because of that, he gets a great push on the defender and gets him moving and holds that block.

McGinaTosh, on the other hand, has a weak lower body, but he does have a decent reach, and relatively quick feet.

Because of that he is better at LT.

The Chiefs would be better off with Taylor at RT, and MacGinaTosh as Albert's B/U.

Frankie
09-30-2008, 09:31 PM
I didn't see Herb at right tackle last season; only at left when he played for McInSuck.

Look, if Herb is the best right tackle on the squad, by all means, he should be starting.

But since he's the best left tackle backup on the squad and Albert's been hurt twice this season, I'm glad the Chiefs didn't move him to the right side just for the sake of being young because, you guessed it, DMac would be starting on the left side now.

And THAT would suck.

My concern is the Chiefs will test him as RT to find out if he could be a long term answer there. Then we will be forced to usa a fairly high pick for a RTand Herb may never get a chance again to be a starter.

Frankie
09-30-2008, 09:33 PM
Right now I think he is the best RT on the squad, and when Albert comes back McIntosh gets to stay on the field. And That sucks all season.

If someone can convince me that Herb is indeed the best RT I'm all for this. McIntosh was halfway decent last year as LT and can be a reliable backup there.

Frankie
09-30-2008, 09:39 PM
Herb Taylor doesn't look the part, and aside from being 6'3" tall, he is also only 295, so you would assume he isn't that guy.

Maybe RG?