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jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 02:33 PM
I know that we have a couple of gun experts on here. I'm seeking some advice.

The wife has finally agreed to allow a gun in the house and I'm looking for suggestions. It would have to be something that she can use as well (she's not very big).

I went to Bass Pro this afternoon and got some good info. I really liked the feel of the S&W 9mm.

I recently moved so I apparently have to get my driver's license straight before I can make a purchase. I'm thinking about heading to the Bullet Hole this weekend and shooting with some different options as well.

Any ideas?

beach tribe
10-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Advice. Just sayin.

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Whoops

Redrum_69
10-03-2008, 02:39 PM
did you recently increase your wifes life insurance?

have her hold the targets in the air...or...on her head...or..in her mouth

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 02:40 PM
You're wanting a hand gun for your first gun?

Have you shot before?

How familiar are you?

Price Range?

HonestChieffan
10-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Buy more than one cause Obama will try to keep guns from law abiding people. Get them now.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 02:42 PM
My advice is a .38 revolver. If you (or her) are unfamiliar with firearms, it might be better to start with a revolver first. They are much easier to load and operate, and you can instantly tell if they're loaded. Also, a .38 doesn't have all that much kick to it.

HC_Chief
10-03-2008, 02:43 PM
9mm is nice, 45 is better IMO. Glock makes my favorites.

My next purchase for conceal carry = Glock 36

HonestChieffan
10-03-2008, 02:43 PM
9mm Baretta auto is pretty sweet and easy to manage

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Revolvers are much easier for women to use, as they often don't know how to properly pull back the slide or aren't strong enough to do it on a semi-auto.

S&W semi autos get kind of mixed reviews. If you want one around an entry level price, look at the Fabriques. They are phenomenal guns.

Mizzou_8541
10-03-2008, 02:50 PM
Barrett .50 cal SASS. All the way.

Dayze
10-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Barrett .50 cal SASS. All the way.

ROFL

Dayze
10-03-2008, 02:53 PM
if it's her first, have her try a .22; rent one at the range; gradually work your way up to .38, 9mm. .40 etc.

don't drop $600 on a gun that's too powerful for her.

My wife was skeert sh*tless when she shot my 9mm; but was way more comfortable with the .22; and subsequently the .38.

my $.02

Dayze
10-03-2008, 02:54 PM
Revolvers are much easier for women to use, as they often don't know how to properly pull back the slide or aren't strong enough to do it on a semi-auto.

S&W semi autos get kind of mixed reviews. If you want one around an entry level price, look at the Fabriques. They are phenomenal guns.


agreed; the slides vary as far as difficulty etc.

if you're looking for something to protect the house she can use etc....a revolver is good. less chance of a jam etc; and if proficicent a good caliber revolver will do the job

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 02:56 PM
If you're looking for a home defense weapon, you might be better off going with a short, affordable Mossburg 20 guage. Buckshot won't go through walls and would be relatively easy to become familiar with. Look at the 870 and 500 models.

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 02:57 PM
You're wanting a hand gun for your first gun?

Have you shot before?

How familiar are you?

Price Range?Handgun = Yes

I have shot before, while in the military I would occasionally be armed with a 9mm when I flew. I also shot an M-16 while in boot camp. Didn't grow up with guns though and I'm not a hunter.

It's been years since I've handled any kind of firearm some my familiarity has dropped. I plan on taking safety and training courses along with any purchase that I make.

Price range would probably top out at $600.

TrebMaxx
10-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Check out the Springfield Armory's XD series. Easy to use and even in .45 ACP hardly any kick. You can get them in 9mm or .40 too. The safety features is why I am suggesting the SA XD.

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 03:01 PM
If you're looking for a decent, affordable gun.

Kimbers are great, but out of your price range.

If you like the Smith and Wesson, look at the 1911 style .45

My latest handgun is a c&c Taurus Millenium 9mm.

You might look at the Springfield XD, maybe a subcompact.


If you're looking for a "starter" gun....You might get a .22 Mosquitto.
not a lot of KO power, but its a reliable gun and not "scary" if you're shooting it.


The Revolvers are idiot proof(almost apparently)...but the smaller ones, especially the c&c size .38 .380....have a lot of kick for their size and will hurt her wrist or bruise her palm if she shoots very many rounds.

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 03:02 PM
If you're looking for a home defense weapon, you might be better off going with a short, affordable Mossburg 20 guage. Buckshot won't go through walls and would be relatively easy to become familiar with. Look at the 870 and 500 models.The guy at Bass Pro was also pushing the shotgun idea. I don't like it though. I want something that I can also have fun with and taking a handgun to the firing range on occasion sounds more interesting.

As for the revolver vs semi arguments the wife would get a lot of exposure at the range and would become proficient. A small revolver might make sense though.

We'll certainly go and rent at the range and test dive some different options.

Redrum_69
10-03-2008, 03:03 PM
What you need is a bazooka

theres one for sale in the trailer court behind the walmart in gardner.

an ex military soldier has a bazooka, and a collection of unused zippo lights, and a freakin bomb, that stands about 5 feet tall...and has a dent on the top of the shell casing

I wondered if it was a sting...so I only bought the abu garcia reel.

Can you imagine, getting a speeding ticket on the way home from work, and have a bomb and bazooka in the passenger seat....how the hell would you explain that???

Demonpenz
10-03-2008, 03:04 PM
if it was truly for home protection I would get shotgun so you have a large spray hitting atleast some portion of the bad guy

beach tribe
10-03-2008, 03:04 PM
"Desert Eagle.... point five O"

Dayze
10-03-2008, 03:04 PM
You might look at the Springfield XD, maybe a subcompact.


If you're looking for a "starter" gun....You might get a .22 Mosquitto.

agreed.

I have the XD (although not the sub-compact); great gun. The wife shot the mosquitto at the range and was like Dirty Harry. She loved it (...naturally...the wife likes the $500+ .22. lol)

beach tribe
10-03-2008, 03:05 PM
What you need is a bazooka

theres one for sale in the trailer court behind the walmart in gardner.

an ex military soldier has a bazooka, and a collection of unused zippo lights, and a freakin bomb, that stands about 5 feet tall...and has a dent on the top of the shell casing

I wondered if it was a sting...so I only bought the abu garcia reel.

Can you imagine, getting a speeding ticket on the way home from work, and have a bomb and bazooka in the passenger seat....how the hell would you explain that???
It's not a bomb. It's an RV shitter tank.

Warrior5
10-03-2008, 03:07 PM
Check out the Springfield Armory's XD series. Easy to use and even in .45 ACP hardly any kick. You can get them in 9mm or .40 too. The safety features is why I am suggesting the SA XD.

Like many have said, it depends on what you need a handgun for.

My wife has a Taurus .38 for concealed carry.

I have a Springfield XD-40 Compact... too much recoil for my wife, but exactly what I want. One buddy of mine uses a Springfield XD-9 for CC, another the XD-45 in subcompact. Obviously, we're all XD fans.

Bullethole has everything, so try out several different models/calibers.

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 03:07 PM
I think you could legally purchase the bazooka...you just can own the rounds for it.

You can buy a grenade launcher addon for a black rifle at a gunshow....but you can only buy flares.

TrebMaxx
10-03-2008, 03:09 PM
agreed.

I have the XD (although not the sub-compact); great gun. The wife shot the mosquitto at the range and was like Dirty Harry. She loved it (...naturally...the wife likes the $500+ .22. lol)

Yeah, my wife is the same way but she has moved up to the 9mm after getting used to firing with the .22. She shot 4 rounds of .45 with my 1911 and won't touch it anymore. She also dislikes the AR-15 for some reason, she said it wasn't the kick but the sound scared her each time she pulled the trigger. I don't get that one.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 03:09 PM
if it was truly for home protection I would get shotgun so you have a large spray hitting atleast some portion of the bad guy

IMO, a shotgun is a pretty cumbersome weapon to use in the confines of one's house. Especially if it's dark, you're half-asleep, you've just been awakened by an alarm or some other noise that caused you to feel the need to arm yourself, and you're scared.

Dayze
10-03-2008, 03:10 PM
Bullethole has everything, so try out several different models/calibers.

true 'dat

;)

Pneuma
10-03-2008, 03:11 PM
You could always go with a .357 revolver.

You can load the .357 ammo and the wife can load .38 ammo. Also the .357 is a heavier gun it will not kick as much with the .38 ammo in it.

I agree with renting a .22 for your wife and letting her get used to it. I started out with a 9mm and I could handle it without problems. I don't know how my wife would do.

If you live in KC check out the Crossfire Rec Center off of Truman Rd in Independence. You can rent a gun for $5 + ammo. Not bad at all.

Crossfire Rec Center
21200 E Truman Rd
Independence, MO 64056

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 03:13 PM
I'll check out the Springfield XD's.

Thanks for the info. I knew that you bastards could come through on this.;)

Dayze
10-03-2008, 03:13 PM
You could always go with a .357 revolver.

You can load the .357 ammo and the wife can load .38 ammo. Also the .357 is a heavier gun it will not kick as much with the .38 ammo in it.

this is true too.

Similar contemplation when the wife was looking at a pistola

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 03:13 PM
So you're suggesting that a smaller, revolver would be more idiot proof under similar circumstances?

IMO, a shotgun is a pretty cumbersome weapon to use in the confines of one's house. Especially if it's dark, you're half-asleep, you've just been awakened by an alarm or some other noise that caused you to feel the need to arm yourself, and you're scared.

TrebMaxx
10-03-2008, 03:14 PM
I was thinking of getting the XD-M in 9mm for the wife. 19+1 capacity should be enough bullet holes if the occasion for her to ever have to defend herself came around.

Iowanian
10-03-2008, 03:14 PM
I'll check out the Springfield XD's.

Thanks for the info. I knew that you bastards could come through on this.;)

Bring it to Iowania and we'll shoot some old toilets or something.

Its like preschool though, if you bring rounds, you have to bring enough for everyone.

Donger
10-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Handgun = Yes

I have shot before, while in the military I would occasionally be armed with a 9mm when I flew. I also shot an M-16 while in boot camp. Didn't grow up with guns though and I'm not a hunter.

It's been years since I've handled any kind of firearm some my familiarity has dropped. I plan on taking safety and training courses along with any purchase that I make.

Price range would probably top out at $600.

What did you fly?

Frazod
10-03-2008, 03:17 PM
So you're suggesting that a smaller, revolver would be more idiot proof under similar circumstances?

Well, nothing's idiot proof under those circumstances - I found that out the hard way. Of course, my little incident was a false alarm. And it's much easier to get a shotgun out of someone's grasp than a handgun.

The two things I learned from my little misadventure were (1) keep the gun loaded with safety rounds, and (2) don't pull the hammer back on a revolver unless you actually see somebody you mean to shoot.

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 03:18 PM
What did you fly?
S-3b Aircrew.

Mr. Laz
10-03-2008, 03:18 PM
My advice is a .38 revolver. If you (or her) are unfamiliar with firearms, it might be better to start with a revolver first. They are much easier to load and operate, and you can instantly tell if they're loaded. Also, a .38 doesn't have all that much kick to it.
really?

9 mm is pretty simple

just make sure that you

1. get the right ammo ... some 9mm have/need "long" ammo

2. make sure you go to a range and get the feel of handling it so that the first time you have to use it isn't under stress.

Dayze
10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
S-3b Aircrew.

is that the tanker versino or the Sub-hunter type version?

or both?

Donger
10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
S3-b Aircrew.

The Hoover? Cool!

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
Bring it to Iowania and we'll shoot some old toilets or something.

Its like preschool though, if you bring rounds, you have to bring enough for everyone.
Sounds like a winner.

But how many old toilets do you have sitting around?:eek:

Donger
10-03-2008, 03:20 PM
Personally, I have no firearms in the house. I just ask the intruders a lot of questions and they leave the house quickly, running and screaming. These threads are neat, however.

TrebMaxx
10-03-2008, 03:20 PM
really?

2. make sure you go to a range and get the feel of handling it so that the first time you have to use it isn't under stress.

Best advice for any newbies and firearms. Get some professional training too, it can go a long way.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 03:21 PM
really?

9 mm is pretty simple

just make sure that you

1. get the right ammo ... some 9mm have/need "long" ammo

2. make sure you go to a range and get the feel of handling it so that the first time you have to use it isn't under stress.

We're talking about beginners here. With a revolver you know if it's loaded by looking at it. It won't jam. And there is no safety to mess you up if you are discombobulated and need to fire quickly.

jiveturkey
10-03-2008, 03:21 PM
The Hoover? Cool!That WAR HOOVER.

And it was mainly a tanker for the gas sucking f-18's. It was still equipped for surface ship and sub hunting but there wasn't much a need for that. We usually just hunting our own guys.

Dayze
10-03-2008, 03:22 PM
Best advice for any newbies and firearms. Get some professional training too, it can go a long way.

I think the bullet hole in Shawnee has a course for like $45.

Plus, I think Wednesdays are 'ladies'" nights; shoot for free (no range fee)

Radar Chief
10-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Bring it to Iowania and we'll shoot some old toilets or something.

Its like preschool though, if you bring rounds, you have to bring enough for everyone.

Hollow points and old milk jugs full of water make for very, uh, reactive target shooting. Old 2 liter bottles full of water work also. ;)

Bwana
10-03-2008, 03:34 PM
The guy at Bass Pro was also pushing the shotgun idea. I don't like it though. I want something that I can also have fun with and taking a handgun to the firing range on occasion sounds more interesting.

As for the revolver vs semi arguments the wife would get a lot of exposure at the range and would become proficient. A small revolver might make sense though.

We'll certainly go and rent at the range and test dive some different options.

Hmmm? If the primary issue is some low life breaking into your house, a shotgun is the only way to go and as stated above, use 00 Buck. I just bought a Remington 870, with the 2 shot extension and an "18 barrel this week to add to the collection. If you are looking for a handgun, I really like Glocks. http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm I have a Glock 20, 10mm and love it, but that would likely be a little to much power for your wife, if she hasn't been around handguns. If it is more for protection, consider a Lasermax for the gun. Whatever you point the dot on, is where your bullet is going to go.
http://www.lasermax.com/

Ammo is also something you will want to consider. I have 4 high capacity, 15 round clips for my glock 20, all loaded with different bullet types and love the Corbon rounds. http://www.dakotaammo.net/

They make very hot rounds and are great for various self defense issues. The rounds are expensive (Not plinking rounds) compared to a Federal round, Remmington rounds, or something of that nature, but are what you want in there in a life or death situation. When I am in the back woods full of grizzly's, that's the only round I will have in the gun. The same goes for street, or home defense.

I hope that helps a little, I didn't get to deep into it and tried to keep it basic. Good luck.

Otter
10-03-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm a firm believer in a compact 12 gauge shotty with buck shot for home defense.

A 9mm would be a good choice for the post shit storm head shot to ensure the job is done however.

;)

HC_Chief
10-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Yeah, my wife is the same way but she has moved up to the 9mm after getting used to firing with the .22. She shot 4 rounds of .45 with my 1911 and won't touch it anymore. She also dislikes the AR-15 for some reason, she said it wasn't the kick but the sound scared her each time she pulled the trigger. I don't get that one.

That's because the AR is a loud f&#^$er; especially in the 16" variants (like mine).

Otter
10-03-2008, 03:36 PM
Great minds Mr. Bwana, great minds.

Radar Chief
10-03-2008, 03:43 PM
If it is more for protection, consider a Lasermax for the gun. Whatever you point the dot on, is where your bullet is going to go.
http://www.lasermax.com/

Nice, I’ve been looking at Crimson Trace grips for my Colt .45. I’ll have to take a look at these also.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/

Soupnazi
10-03-2008, 03:44 PM
If you're looking for a home defense weapon, you might be better off going with a short, affordable Mossburg 20 guage. Buckshot won't go through walls and would be relatively easy to become familiar with. Look at the 870 and 500 models.

QFT. Always better to have weapon with some degree of forgiveness on accuracy, and a round that doesn't go through wall after wall for home defense.

Otter
10-03-2008, 03:45 PM
IMO, a shotgun is a pretty cumbersome weapon to use in the confines of one's house. Especially if it's dark, you're half-asleep, you've just been awakened by an alarm or some other noise that caused you to feel the need to arm yourself, and you're scared.

Yep, some silly f***er might wind up putting a round in the washing machine or refrigrator!

ROFL

Bwana
10-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Great minds Mr. Bwana, great minds.

Heh, You are just lucky you didn't have to fire off a round when you borrowed my .454 Casull, when we were up in Alaska, the day you took off by yourself in the brush to go fishing. I had that thing loaded with Corbon big game rounds. It would have killed the bear or moose, but it feels like someone just hit your hand with a 5 pound hammer when you touch off that hand cannon with those particular rounds in it. :)

rad
10-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Well, nothing's idiot proof under those circumstances - I found that out the hard way. Of course, my little incident was a false alarm. And it's much easier to get a shotgun out of someone's grasp than a handgun.

The two things I learned from my little misadventure were (1) keep the gun loaded with safety rounds, and (2) don't pull the hammer back on a revolver unless you actually see somebody you mean to shoot.

What incident?

Bwana
10-03-2008, 03:49 PM
What incident?

ROFL

Fraz the fridge killa.......

I would guess that thread is in the hall of fame?

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 03:50 PM
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg193-e.htm

stood off the back porch with this model and would put rounds into the clothes line pole one after the other. maybe 35-40 yds away.

very very reliable,auto decock, easy take down for cleaning, concealable, enough round to stop a man. and you can get one for about $250.
dont let the price fool you, i cant speak highly enough about this firearm.

mom has one.

rad
10-03-2008, 03:53 PM
ROFL

Fraz the fridge killa.......

I would guess that thread is in the hall of fame?


Oh, that's right.....I remember hearing a little something about that awhile back, I don't really know what happened though.

Guess I'll go do a little digging.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 03:54 PM
Well, nothing's idiot proof under those circumstances - I found that out the hard way. Of course, my little incident was a false alarm. And it's much easier to get a shotgun out of someone's grasp than a handgun.

The two things I learned from my little misadventure were (1) keep the gun loaded with safety rounds, and (2) don't pull the hammer back on a revolver unless you actually see somebody you mean to shoot.

crazy talk.

Radar Chief
10-03-2008, 03:54 PM
Heh, You are just lucky you didn't have to fire off a round when you borrowed my .454 Casull, when we were up in Alaska, the day you took off by yourself in the brush to go fishing. I had that thing loaded with Corbon big game rounds. It would have killed the bear or moose, but it feels like someone just hit your hand with a 5 pound hammer when you touch off that hand cannon with those particular rounds in it. :)

I briefly looked into getting a .454 Casull but every review I read called the recoil “punishing”. They said if a .44 Mag feels like a lot of recoil to you don’t bother with the Casull.
One auther recommended target practicing with .45 Long Colts, I guess it’ll shoot those also, then load the Casull rounds for go time. “When faced with a charging animal with large teeth and claws” they said, “you won’t be worried about the recoil.”

Otter
10-03-2008, 03:56 PM
Heh, You are just lucky you didn't have to fire off a round when you borrowed my .454 Casull, when we were up in Alaska, the day you took off by yourself in the brush to go fishing. I had that thing loaded with Corbon big game rounds. It would have killed the bear or moose, but it feels like someone just hit your hand with a 5 pound hammer when you touch off that hand cannon with those particular rounds in it. :)

I don't remember if I told you this or not but I was in (ironiclly enough) Moose River swinging the fly rod and heard a snort coming from behind me. Looked over my shoulder and female elk was about 15' or 20' feet behind me. She must have waded in while my back was turned.

Guess where the gun was?

Front seet of the jeep because I didn't want to get it wet.

Tell you what, I don't know if it was the shock of the situaion or not but they are big animals. You could get two normal size horses and stand one on top of the other to match the height of a moose.

Thank God I brought a change of skivvies!

Frazod
10-03-2008, 03:58 PM
crazy talk.

How so?

Radar Chief
10-03-2008, 03:59 PM
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg193-e.htm

stood off the back porch with this model and would put rounds into the clothes line pole one after the other. maybe 35-40 yds away.

very very reliable,auto decock, easy take down for cleaning, concealable, enough round to stop a man. and you can get one for about $250.
dont let the price fool you, i cant speak highly enough about this firearm.

mom has one.

Dead link. Talk you into trying again?

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:03 PM
Oh, that's right.....I remember hearing a little something about that awhile back, I don't really know what happened though.

Guess I'll go do a little digging.

Here's the condensed version.

Burglar alarm goes off early in the morning. I am awakened from a dead sleep of about 4 hours, grab my revolver, and charge downstairs. When I see that the door that was tripped was to the garage, I assume someone's after my new car. That's when I pull back the hammer. It turns out to be a false alarm. I turn off the alarm, but when I go to uncock the gun, the hammer slips from beneath my thumb while I have the trigger pulled. BOOM. The gun was pointed down and away, and at the end of down and away was the wall to the pantry, the pantry door and the bottom of the refrigerator door.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:04 PM
How so?

dont pull a gun unless youre going to shoot someone.dont show your trump card till the bitter end.
the only way you are going to get a shotgun away from someone is they dont intend to use it.see above.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:06 PM
Dead link. Talk you into trying again?

odd. this one worked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._50

Radar Chief
10-03-2008, 04:08 PM
odd. this one worked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._50

That one worked, thanks.
So you like the .32 ACP round huh? I'll admit I never considered it.

triple
10-03-2008, 04:08 PM
If you're looking for a home defense weapon, you might be better off going with a short, affordable Mossburg 20 guage. Buckshot won't go through walls and would be relatively easy to become familiar with. Look at the 870 and 500 models.

perfect advice. miles more stopping power too.

i think there's something psychological about seeing a long gun, or hearing the sound of a pump action being racked that may convince them they need to GTFO more than a pistol would.

Vegas_Dave
10-03-2008, 04:08 PM
9mm is nice, 45 is better IMO. Glock makes my favorites.

My next purchase for conceal carry = Glock 36

I agree with the Glock. I use/carry a Glock 19C (9mm, 4" barrel, compensated) and it is easy to shoot and maintain. Very reliable, nicely balanced... I keep it loaded with hollow points so the 9mm disadvantage is not as big as a standard 9mm round.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:08 PM
dont pull a gun unless youre going to shoot someone.dont show your trump card till the bitter end.
the only way you are going to get a shotgun away from someone is they dont intend to use it.see above.

If I round the corner at the base of my stairs, and some punk who just broke into my house is waiting for me with a gun drawn, I'll have my gun drawn already. Otherwise, the bitter end might just come while I'm pulling it out. And if I have a shotgun, he'll see the barrel first and grab it. Maybe he won't yank it out of my hands, but he'll definitely f#ck me up for shooting it.

whatsmynameagain
10-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Im a huge cock sucker

FYP

Posted via Mobile Device

triple
10-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Hmmm? If the primary issue is some low life breaking into your house, a shotgun is the only way to go and as stated above, use 00 Buck. I just bought a Remington 870, with the 2 shot extension and an "18 barrel this week to add to the collection. If you are looking for a handgun, I really like Glocks. http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm I have a Glock 20, 10mm and love it, but that would likely be a little to much power for your wife, if she hasn't been around handguns. If it is more for protection, consider a Lasermax for the gun. Whatever you point the dot on, is where your bullet is going to go.
http://www.lasermax.com/

Ammo is also something you will want to consider. I have 4 high capacity, 15 round clips for my glock 20, all loaded with different bullet types and love the Corbon rounds. http://www.dakotaammo.net/

They make very hot rounds and are great for various self defense issues. The rounds are expensive (Not plinking rounds) compared to a Federal round, Remmington rounds, or something of that nature, but are what you want in there in a life or death situation. When I am in the back woods full of grizzly's, that's the only round I will have in the gun. The same goes for street, or home defense.

I hope that helps a little, I didn't get to deep into it and tried to keep it basic. Good luck.

For the home if you weren't going to go shotgun, a Glock 22 would probably be a good choice. I have a 27 that is my carry weapon and I like it a lot.

I usually have Federal HST or hydra-shock loaded.

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:12 PM
I briefly looked into getting a .454 Casull but every review I read called the recoil “punishing”. They said if a .44 Mag feels like a lot of recoil to you don’t bother with the Casull.
One auther recommended target practicing with .45 Long Colts, I guess it’ll shoot those also, then load the Casull rounds for go time. “When faced with a charging animal with large teeth and claws” they said, “you won’t be worried about the recoil.”

The recoil of a normal .454 round isn't to bad, but with Corbon "hot" rounds in it, ouch!

You are 100% spot on with the 2nd part as well.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:15 PM
That one worked, thanks.
So you like the .32 ACP round huh? I'll admit I never considered it.

ya its not bad. but i like that model with the 32. next cc i get will be a 50. carried alot of weapons way back and this was the most reliable imo.

wtf do i need a rocket launcher for,i wanna shoot straight and hit what im aiming at.

triple
10-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Here's the condensed version.

Burglar alarm goes off early in the morning. I am awakened from a dead sleep of about 4 hours, grab my revolver, and charge downstairs. When I see that the door that was tripped was to the garage, I assume someone's after my new car. That's when I pull back the hammer. It turns out to be a false alarm. I turn off the alarm, but when I go to uncock the gun, the hammer slips from beneath my thumb while I have the trigger pulled. BOOM. The gun was pointed down and away, and at the end of down and away was the wall to the pantry, the pantry door and the bottom of the refrigerator door.

never owned a revolver myself, but some manufacturers will build in some kind of... safety feature, dont know how to describe it, to prevent it from happening except from the trigger. there's a little metal piece that covers the primer unless the trigger releases it.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:17 PM
If I round the corner at the base of my stairs, and some punk who just broke into my house is waiting for me with a gun drawn, I'll have my gun drawn already. Otherwise, the bitter end might just come while I'm pulling it out. And if I have a shotgun, he'll see the barrel first and grab it. Maybe he won't yank it out of my hands, but he'll definitely f#ck me up for shooting it.

no dog?

rad
10-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Here's the condensed version.

Burglar alarm goes off early in the morning. I am awakened from a dead sleep of about 4 hours, grab my revolver, and charge downstairs. When I see that the door that was tripped was to the garage, I assume someone's after my new car. That's when I pull back the hammer. It turns out to be a false alarm. I turn off the alarm, but when I go to uncock the gun, the hammer slips from beneath my thumb while I have the trigger pulled. BOOM. The gun was pointed down and away, and at the end of down and away was the wall to the pantry, the pantry door and the bottom of the refrigerator door.

Thanks, funny story. I just found the thread and skimmed it over. Luckily noone got hurt.

I would have popped the stupid fucking cat.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
never owned a revolver myself, but some manufacturers will build in some kind of... safety feature, dont know how to describe it, to prevent it from happening except from the trigger. there's a little metal piece that covers the primer unless the trigger releases it.

I had the trigger depressed, because it was my intention to uncock it. My thumb was sweaty and it slipped off the hammer. Had I grabbed the Glock, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:21 PM
no dog?

No dog, but I have an alarm.

That's another thing for me to consider - the alarm will scare off probably 99% of would-be robbers. If there's still somebody down there, then I know the sonofabitch means business, and if I see him, I'll be shooting early and often.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:21 PM
ps Zod. slice the pie. its your turf.

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:21 PM
If I round the corner at the base of my stairs, and some punk who just broke into my house is waiting for me with a gun drawn, I'll have my gun drawn already. Otherwise, the bitter end might just come while I'm pulling it out. And if I have a shotgun, he'll see the barrel first and grab it. Maybe he won't yank it out of my hands, but he'll definitely f#ck me up for shooting it.

"18

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch.asp

And if you want to go shorter on the other end, you can go this route:

http://www.combatstocks.com/Shotgun_Pistol_Grips_Forend_Grips_and_Rear_Grips.cfm

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:22 PM
Thanks, funny story. I just found the thread and skimmed it over. Luckily noone got hurt.

I would have popped the stupid f***ing cat.

The whole thing was very humbling. I have been handling weapons since I was 7, and to f#ck up like that, man, I still can't believe I did that. Definitely a learning experience.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:26 PM
"18

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch.asp

I'm thinking of my specific situation - narrow stairway with a turn, and a partial wall in between that a perp could hide behind. If I have a shotgun pointed out, somebody could grab it before I saw them. If I have the gun point down or up, the perp could get to me before I had a chance to point it. In my particular instance, I'm much better off with a handgun.

Were my house laid out differently, I'd agree with you guys on the shotgun. But it's a different situation for me.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:28 PM
"18

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_18inch.asp

And if you want to go shorter on the other end, you can go this route:

http://www.combatstocks.com/Shotgun_Pistol_Grips_Forend_Grips_and_Rear_Grips.cfm

had the mariner model for 13 years. only thing i keep at home.
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=5&section=products

you can get it around on a moving target and hit center mass.

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:32 PM
I think my next toy is going to be a Benelli M4 90 tactical. These things are kick ass, but the gun alone will set you back $1500. That is without a laser or the night sites.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:33 PM
slice the pie tactics

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=32250



Slicing the pie, or "pie-ing," is a method of looking around corners and obstacles while presenting the smallest possible target. It is a dynamic movement technique designed to minimize exposure around cover and maximize the tactical advantage for the officer.
Nearly anyone who has completed "Police School 101" has some familiarity with pie slicing. It is named after the shape of the officer's reward for tactical movement. As the officer moves tactically, he receives a bigger slice of the pie.
Slicing is a fluid dynamic method. As the unpredictable elements change, the officer's responses change. For example, a door can be attached by several different configurations causing it to open at least five different ways: toward the officer, away from the officer, toward the officer in the same room, away from the officer in the same room and sliding. The way a door opens and whether it is open will cause the officer to respond in a distinct manner.
It takes at least two officers to slice a stairway, regardless of the architecture. If the stairway takes a turn, one officer will have to negotiate it backwards, eyes on the landing. Even when ascending a simple stairway, one officer must slice the entrance to the stairway, the other the landing.
Making the tactical decision
All tactical decision making is time sensitive. A high-risk situation is governed by responses to actions that each adversary makes. If the suspect does something, the officer makes a decision based on this action and surrounding factors. The quicker the decision response cycle, the quicker the reaction time.
This concept is not new. It is attributed to Air Force Col. John Boyd. An outspoken military pilot, Boyd observed that tactical decision making had a cycle of processes. The process of observe, orient, decide and act occur in a cycle - the OODA Loop. The adversary who completes the OODA Loop the quickest will win.
In the 1950s, Boyd bet other pilots that he could put his jet on their tail within 40 seconds or pay them $40. Legend has it that he never lost his $40. Boyd's instinctive concepts of combat were the foundation for combat decision-making processes employed by almost every great leader.
One of the tenets of the OODA Loop is exploiting surprise. The winning officer will increase the duration of the orient phase of the suspect's OODA Loop when slicing the pie. The idea is to cause the suspect to delay his perception and misread the environment. If the suspect's information is incomplete, decision making is delayed. The longer the delay, the greater the officer safety.
While introducing confusion in the suspect's OODA Loop, the officer shortcuts his own loop the same way a race car driver apexes a corner for more speed. The officer has a series of templates for each scenario. If the template works, he can quickly apply them, decreasing his response time. The templates come from training. For pie slicing, every search an officer performs reshapes the library of templates.
As officers begin obtaining better templates, they realize the concepts of pie slicing also can be used in situations like vehicle stops.
Preparing to train
For this article several scenarios were experimented with where officers searched inside a building. The purpose was to clearly illustrate using geometry as a tactical advantage. The Airsoft pistol from 21st Century Airsoft and a Raidhouse were two training aids used that significantly improved data collection on slicing the pie.
The Airsoft pistol is a tool that adds realism to training, incorporating the same operating system, trigger action, dimensions, disassembly and "feel" of a Glock 22. Additionally, it fit the same holsters and equipment one would use on patrol. Using full face protection and appropriate clothing, the Airsoft pistol allowed officers to run scenarios that included realistic force decisions.
The Raidhouse, a portable tactical training system, consists of a steel-framed enclosure with coated vinyl walls. Quickly erected, users attach removable walls on the net ceiling. This allows for an infinite variety of configurations, including hallways, doorways and rooms. The interior can be reconfigured in seconds, making the next scenario distinct from the previous one.
Using the training tools and collecting data from experienced officers, the Law Enforcement Technology Test Team was able to compile a list of recommendations for training in pie slicing.
If moving sideways is working, avoid the temptation to move forward
One of the biggest mistakes an officer will make is moving forward too quickly while he can still be moving laterally. In training, the easiest way to recognize this error is to watch officers shuffle right to a doorway, slice the interior, then move forward to the point where there muzzle is beyond the barricade. Even experienced officers occasionally let their muzzle go beyond a wall, then realize that anyone on the other side of the wall could grab it.
Using the Raidhouse, several search scenarios where the primary officer hugged the wall on the same side as a doorway were utilized. It was found that the suspect was able to grab the weapon almost every time. Even in training, this forced the hand of the officer. When this scenario was run with a carbine, the suspect was able to grab the rifle with both hands every time. This also forced the officer to resort to the handgun. Obviously, leading with the weapon demonstrates a serious training deficiency.
On a hallway with doors on both sides, the two-man officer team will generally move in a staggered formation to the first doorway. The lead officer will move in a question mark shaped pattern with the opening of the hook facing the doorway. When the lead officer has sufficiently sliced the doorway, the two officers will switch positions. There is no hard and fast rule in this situation - a collection of officer safety habits will work. A little bit of experimenting will show any officer the fact that backing off from a doorway allows a better field of view while slicing.
In an ideal world, officers will have their backs against the opposite wall of a hallway when slicing a doorway. In the Raidhouse, the closer an officer stayed to a doorway opening, the more likely the gun was grabbed. As officers sliced from the opposite wall, the reactionary advantage was maximized.
There has to be a fluid switch from contact to cover between two officers. In a hallway with several doorways, one officer has to look down the hall while the other slices an open doorway. This action immediately implies that they will have to leapfrog to the next doorway. However, if one of them has a long gun, the officer who can holster his weapon becomes the handcuffing officer by default.
The recommended way to train for fluid role switching is for training managers to have squads train together.
No safe assumptions
Assume the worst case scenario - the suspect can see you. Do not assume the suspect will stay put when discovered. Do not assume the suspect will stay put at all.
The number of scenario possibilities is countless. However, the earlier the officer can identify a threat by correctly slicing, the more complete and effective his action. If the suspect rushes the officer, slicing the pie will give the officer more time to react.
When searching, it is a safe assumption the suspect knows someone is looking for him. It is also safe to assume the suspect can detect someone entering a residence. The sensory clues could be something as simple as the rush of air when a door opens. One can even assume a suspect can hear an officer moving down a hallway. Despite all this, slicing the pie gives the officer a tactical advantage. A suspect or suspects might know the general area of the search but probably cannot fix the position of any of the officers. Even if they could, the tactically savvy officer is behind cover when he makes his observations.
When using the Raidhouse, it was easy to guess the location of the searching officer every time. After all, the walls are made of coated vinyl and the ceiling is a net. Even with these disadvantages, the officer who sliced the pie correctly always won, because he acquired a visual target by careful, deliberate movements. This is the most important data.
Think in three dimensions
One southern California agency was given some abandoned apartments for training. A nearby agency provided the actors for the scenarios. During one scenario, officers were told they were responding to an unknown call for help inside of an apartment complex. Four officers performed the search. As they moved down a hallway, they heard a female voice crying for help, saying, "He's got a knife! He's going to stab me!" From the screaming they were easily able to find the correct apartment. They paused outside of the apartment door, which was halfway open. The officers decided to rush in the apartment and overtake the suspect. There were two surprises beyond the door. First, the "victim" shot the first two officers with a "red gun." Second, the "victim" was squatted on top of a refrigerator, not where most people would assume the threat would come from.
This training scenario yielded several lessons. Never assume that the suspect is flat-footed. When slicing, look at the whole picture that unfolds, not just the one at chest level. Apply the correct template to the correct scenario. In this case, a deliberate look inside the apartment or a little intel would have been handy.
Consider alternative tools
Slicing the pie is only part of the equation. Another element that needs to be included is the common sense approach. The officer may have done everything right and sees where the suspect is hiding. Now it is time to use the correct tool. For example, if the suspect responds to verbal commands, there is no reason to move forward. If verbal commands are not working but canine use is appropriate, use the canine.
Other considerations - whether to enter a room, whether it will take both officers to clear a room - depend on how much officers can see when inspecting the room from the hallway, vision obscurements and the size of the search.
External slicing
Slicing is just as appropriate outside the building. When walking up to a call, every officer has the radar on, spotting potential hazards and cover along the way. Officers naturally place cover between where they are and where they are going. This is best trained by putting a threat target downrange during live-fire training and having officers walk up to a barricade. They will naturally orient to "this side toward enemy" and gravitate toward the barricade. The other part of this training is officers learn to back off a little from the barricade so their muzzle is not exposed.
Another important aspect of barricade training is when the tactical situation requires the officer to slice from the reaction- (or support) hand side. They should train to do one of two things: put the weapon in the support hand or place the non-firing hand on the chest, depending on the orientation of the threat. Either way, the mission is minimum exposure.
No master key, only a large key ring
The only way to make an officer and his team successful in pie slicing is to train, train, train. No single scenario or application will work in every situation. In a very short time, officers on a shift can become a cohesive unit. As they compare their notes with other officers from other agencies, they find that pie slicing is a universal language

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:35 PM
I think my next toy is going to be a Benelli M4 90 tactical. These things are kick ass, but the gun alone will set you back $1500. That is without a laser or the night sites.

aa-12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO0qsdSqA

triple
10-03-2008, 04:35 PM
I had the trigger depressed, because it was my intention to uncock it. My thumb was sweaty and it slipped off the hammer. Had I grabbed the Glock, it wouldn't have been an issue.

ah, i see. so what kind of penetration did you get there? ever find it?

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:35 PM
had the mariner model for 13 years. only thing i keep at home.
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=5&section=products

you can get it around on a moving target and hit center mass.

I owned that gun at one point, with the pistol grip.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:37 PM
I owned that gun at one point, with the pistol grip.

didnt like it?

Dayze
10-03-2008, 04:37 PM
I owned that gun at one point, with the pistol grip.

check out gunbroker.com;

i got my sigpro there for about $200 less than what the stores were offering here; i had it shipped from MA; even with the $25 transfer fee and shipping it still was $200 less than what most retailers were wanting..

it's like a gun ebay type deal..

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:39 PM
aa-12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO0qsdSqA

Damn, that is sweet.

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:40 PM
Damn, that is sweet.

yup

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:40 PM
didnt like it?

I never should have sold it. :grr:

MOhillbilly
10-03-2008, 04:42 PM
I never should have sold it. :grr:

did you have the 590?

edit- i think weve had this conversation.

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:42 PM
check out gunbroker.com;

i got my sigpro there for about $200 less than what the stores were offering here; i had it shipped from MA; even with the $25 transfer fee and shipping it still was $200 less than what most retailers were wanting..

it's like a gun ebay type deal..

Cool. I'll look into that. I had an FFL for years and let it go. The paperwork was a big pain in the ass once Cliton got into office.

Frazod
10-03-2008, 04:42 PM
ah, i see. so what kind of penetration did you get there? ever find it?

Yes. It dented the hell out of the bottom of the side of the door, then bounced onto the floor about a foot away.

Bwana
10-03-2008, 04:43 PM
did you have the 590?

edit- i think weve had this conversation.

I did.

alanm
10-03-2008, 05:49 PM
If you're looking for a home defense weapon, you might be better off going with a short, affordable Mossburg 20 guage. Buckshot won't go through walls and would be relatively easy to become familiar with. Look at the 870 and 500 models.
Iowanian, I'll do you one better. This will keep the neighbors at bay and you can pick off troublemakers up to a mile away. :thumb:

old_geezer
10-03-2008, 09:50 PM
This sits by my bed at night. :)

dtebbe
10-03-2008, 10:04 PM
Advice. Just sayin.

Exactly what I was thinking...

MOhillbilly
10-04-2008, 02:27 AM
This sits by my bed at night. :)

what is that a laser beam?

Kerberos
10-04-2008, 05:24 AM
Perfect for Home protection and shouldn't be to hard to train the WU to use.

;)

old_geezer
10-04-2008, 06:39 AM
what is that a laser beam?


Just a Mossberg 500 tactical 12 ga. Holds 6 shots - I figure the problem will be solved one way or another by then. :D

No laser needed. In the situations I need to use this, it's just point and shoot.

manchambo
10-04-2008, 11:17 AM
Buy more than one cause Obama will try to keep guns from law abiding people. Get them now.


And he also wants to raise your taxes, huh?

And fuck all da white womenz

jiveturkey
10-04-2008, 11:27 PM
Got out with a buddy and shot a .22, 9mm, .357, .38 and a 12 gage today.

The 12 gage was a surprise. The 2nd shot was a lot more fun and we shot at some clay pigeons. I may have a gift. Hit the first one and then went 3 for 5.

As for the handguns the 9mm was my favorite. Unloading 15 rounds into a pile of hedge apples was a good time. The .38 mag rounds left me with some ringing in my ears. It goes away pretty quickly but damn.

The wife was able to handle everything except the 12 gage. She also preferred the 9mm the all of the others. I thought that she would be a .22 fan.

DeezNutz
10-04-2008, 11:29 PM
Got out with a buddy and shot a .22, 9mm, .357, .38 and a 12 gage today.

The 12 gage was a surprise. The 2nd shot was a lot more fun and we shot at some clay pigeons. I may have a gift. Hit the first one and then went 3 for 5.

As for the handguns the 9mm was my favorite. Unloading 15 rounds into a pile of hedge apples was a good time. The .38 mag rounds left me with some ringing in my ears. It goes away pretty quickly but damn.

The wife was able to handle everything except the 12 gage. She also preferred the 9mm the all of the others. I thought that she would be a .22 fan.

She's not going to like the 12 gauge, but try a 20. It's plenty of gun for both of you and a great choice for home defense.

boogblaster
10-05-2008, 12:18 AM
Yea 20 gauge will work not a lot of kick but with the right load it will do it's job ...

Simply Red
10-05-2008, 12:28 AM
Turn it on yourself.

/ Marlboro Chief

jiveturkey
10-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Took a course at the Bullet Hole last night, learned a lot and shot the 9mm Springfield XD and a 9mm Glock. I love the XD. The Glock was good but I was less accurate with it.

The course included a year membership to the BH so I'm heading back in the next week or so to try out all of the other 9mm.

Demonpenz
10-28-2008, 01:52 PM
Did you try the uzi?

tooge
10-28-2008, 01:58 PM
.357 revolver is a great starter. Get the 4inch barrel for home defense. It packs alot of stopping power, wont knock either of you over, and rounds are fairly cheap and everyone has em.

BigOlChiefsfan
10-28-2008, 05:16 PM
Police trade-in pistols and revolvers are usually in good shape, and priced well. A used .38 or .357 revolver, or a .40S&W/9mm pistol can be had for less than $400 easily, and you'll have money for a shotgun, as discussed above. You can search here:

Gunbroker (http://www.gunbroker.com/)

I've done business with the fellow below, he carries Norinco pump shotguns, they're robust clones, cheap (but currently on backorder). I know guys who won't buy Norinco (ChiCom), but will buy Russian or Eastern Bloc surplus...well, he's also got Mosin m44's Yugo 24/47s and Enfield Mk4s, also cheap, and if you'd like a surplus battle rifle those are good buys. I own all 3, they're all fine old guns.

http://www.classicarms.us/

Dayze
10-28-2008, 05:23 PM
[QUOTE=BigOlChiefsfan;5161818]Police trade-in pistols and revolvers are usually in good shape, and priced well. A used .38 or .357 revolver, or a .40S&W/9mm pistol can be had for less than $400 easily, and you'll have money for a shotgun, as discussed above. You can search here:

Gunbroker (http://www.gunbroker.com/)


I've used Gunbroker.com before; I managed to get my Sig Pro for $320 in New Hampshire. No problems etc.
As others have mentioned, police trade ins are a good value.

BIG_DADDY
10-28-2008, 05:29 PM
My gun advice would be to get as many as you can if Obama wins the election.

DenverChief
10-28-2008, 05:33 PM
http://www.classicarms.us/

Yeah they have a nice shotgun for sale there for $150

BigOlChiefsfan
10-28-2008, 10:49 PM
Here's a fellow over in Grain Valley who specializes in police trade in's. I'm pointing at a couple I'd buy:

Sig_P6 (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Sig_P6_225.html)

Beretta_Cougar (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Beretta_Cougar.html)

Glock 17 (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/1838356.html)

S&W 5903 (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/S_W_5903.html)

Figure in an additional $50 for shipping/transfer fees to your local yokel FFL. If you're in Kansas, I'll recommend the Harrison Street Pawn shop, Harrison about 2 blocks N. of old 56 in Olathe (at the old Jet Plane park) for transfers. Nice folks, and the lowest transfer fee I've found in KC.

harrisonstreetpawn.com/ (http://harrisonstreetpawn.com/)

jiveturkey
11-08-2008, 09:53 PM
After 100 rounds with the 9mm Springfield XD and another 100 with the S&W M&P 9mm I decided on the S&W. The wife even likes the S&W and had a pretty good day on the range with it this afternoon.

And just our luck it came with a $50 mail in rebate at Bass Pro.

It's ready for shootin' old toilets.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson//upload/images/firearms/209000_large.jpg

cdcox
11-28-2008, 10:36 PM
We went over to my wife's cousin's house today and shot guns all afternoon. About 10 of his various friends came by, all with different kinds of guns. One guy had just bought his senior citizen father a .410 revolver. With #6 shot, you weren't going to miss your target at 10 to 15 feet (nice spread). Same pistol can also shoot .45 longs. I've never owned a pistol, but after shooting twice in the last month at his house, I'm starting to get the bug.

TrebMaxx
11-29-2008, 12:35 AM
Just went out today to shoot my new AR. Pretty slick setup, it has a piston conversion kit on it to replace the gas tube. It was like butter at the range.

googlegoogle
11-29-2008, 02:38 AM
chaosreigns.com/guns/bestgun.html

tomahawk kid
11-29-2008, 07:11 AM
Tell the functional retard to stop telegraphing his blitzes...........

JASONSAUTO
11-29-2008, 09:45 AM
just picked up a hk .45 today boy it's a sweet shooter...

MIAdragon
11-29-2008, 10:12 AM
got to play with this last week, loved it! BTW I have a friend trimming down his cache, if anyone is interested PM me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/Abigail-recliner-3-21-08rev059.jpg