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KCJohnny
10-05-2008, 10:39 PM
At :44 in this video (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b5e250), the KC ILB (Walden? #52) is driven 10 yards into the secondary before he is thrown on the ground. Awful.

At 1:25, Jarrad Page not only whiffs miserably on that lame attempt to tackle, but he gets plowed at the end of the play by the Carolina guy.

I didn't see the whole game (I am in Korea and the game starts at 0200 hours here) but from the highlights, it appears that the offense actually tackled better after the INTs than the D did against the Carolina O.

The ILB play on this team is very, very bad. Maybe Cunningham needs to hire a LB position coach or else resign as DC and coach the LBs full time. This D has taken a decided plunge into the basement of the NFL. The loss of Jared Allen is huge. It is looking more and more like the soul of this defense was taken out of it when Allen left. He raised the level of play of the entire defense. And Glen Dorsey does not appear to be the force most thought he would be inside.

The safeties look lost and confused. I see DEs chasing RBs 30 yards downfield.

Frankly, I'm sick of Cover 2, sick of giving up 200 rushing yards every week, and sick of seeing the Chiefs D get whacked every week.

Dave Lane
10-05-2008, 10:46 PM
Welcome to the real world

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/czpn7wxWgAg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/czpn7wxWgAg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Fish
10-05-2008, 10:53 PM
If only we had those 11 tackles and 2 sacks from Jared this season.... then we'd be good....

Bill Parcells
10-05-2008, 10:57 PM
Hey, look at the bright side. Herm did get rid of that awful good for nothing arena football offense you had. now you're the same on both sides of the ball. Herm likes balance.

btlook1
10-05-2008, 11:02 PM
If only we had those 11 tackles and 2 sacks from Jared this season.... then we'd be good....

I don't know but look at Hali's stats 18 total 12 solo 6 assist and A BIG FAT 0 SACKS!
Besides you know if Allen were still here he and the defense would be doing better just because we would have a little bit of pass rush. We don't have a pass rush unless we blitz 2 linebackers!

KCCHIEFS27
10-05-2008, 11:03 PM
That was actually Demarrio Williams getting shoved downfield..just clearing Walden of any wrong doing because he is one of the few guys who actually seems to play hard whenever he's in..

KCJohnny
10-05-2008, 11:05 PM
That was actually Demarrio Williams getting shoved downfield..just clearing Walden of any wrong doing because he is one of the few guys who actually seems to play hard whenever he's in..

Thank you - it looked like #52 on the vid clip, I couldn't tell, but that one play and and that one player summarize the 2008 Chiefs _efense thus far.

KCJohnny
10-05-2008, 11:06 PM
If only we had those 11 tackles and 2 sacks from Jared this season.... then we'd be good....

Regardless of his play in Minny, he elevated the entire defense when he was here, and everybody knows it. Dorsey was supposed to make up up for some of JA's loss; as of now, I don't see very much to get excited about.

btlook1
10-05-2008, 11:07 PM
That was actually Demarrio Williams getting shoved downfield..just clearing Walden of any wrong doing because he is one of the few guys who actually seems to play hard whenever he's in..

Very true, I was wondering how Walden got in the game....I like Williams he makes a few mistakes but hes playing with some energy and you can tell hes hungry. I wish I could say that about all of the team!

Fish
10-05-2008, 11:12 PM
Regardless of his play in Minny, he elevated the entire defense when he was here, and everybody knows it. Dorsey was supposed to make up up for some of JA's loss; as of now, I don't see very much to get excited about.

But he only elevated it during the first half right? He made a difference in those 9 straight losses last year right? Elevating the play to lose 9 straight?

You're desperately wanting to place blame somewhere, and JA is an easy target for you. But we wouldn't be winning with him here either.

Mecca
10-05-2008, 11:13 PM
Until this team has competent coaching and a legit QB this will continue to happen.

KCJohnny
10-05-2008, 11:20 PM
But he only elevated it during the first half right? He made a difference in those 9 straight losses last year right? Elevating the play to lose 9 straight?

You're desperately wanting to place blame somewhere, and JA is an easy target for you. But we wouldn't be winning with him here either.

Please don't tell me what my intentions are, OK? My point is that JA's loss is an impact factor on the miserable decline of this putrid _efense. At least with JA on the corner speed rush, we got to the QB without having to blitz on every passing down.

Also, you will not find in any of my posts anywhere that the Chiefs should be winning this year with or without Jared Allen.

FTR, KC was #1 or #2 in RZ scoring defense last year.

My beef isn't even with the passing defense; this rushing defense is getting pushed around like a Pop Warner League team (no offense to you kids out there) to the tune of 200 yards a game. Check out the vid in the thread starter. Our whole DL goes backwards when Carolina snaps the ball.

btlook1
10-05-2008, 11:25 PM
Until this team has competent coaching and a legit QB this will continue to happen.

And a true MLB, Right tackle, SS, right guard, DE actually we really need to pass rushing DE's.
Just trying to help you forgot a couple of needs!

Mecca
10-05-2008, 11:26 PM
And a true MLB, Right tackle, SS, right guard, DE actually we really need to pass rushing DE's.
Just trying to help you forgot a couple of needs!

We're talking years....it would have been nice if Hali would have atleast been ok but dude is balls.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-05-2008, 11:33 PM
LOL @ the 2:30 mark. Damon was aiming for cock-a-roaches.

KCJohnny
10-05-2008, 11:55 PM
On the INT where Bowe broke off his route, one Carolina announcer says, "I'm surprised to see the QB and WR not on the same page like that" and the other replies, "Same page? They aren't even in the same library!"

dirk digler
10-05-2008, 11:59 PM
To be fair to Williams he is basically playing with one arm

Hydrae
10-06-2008, 12:00 AM
On the INT where Bowe broke off his route, one Carolina announcer says, "I'm surprised to see the QB and WR not on the same page like that" and the other replies, "Same page? They aren't even in the same library!"

Sadly, I laughed.

King_Chief_Fan
10-06-2008, 08:02 AM
Please don't tell me what my intentions are, OK? My point is that JA's loss is an impact factor on the miserable decline of this putrid _efense. At least with JA on the corner speed rush, we got to the QB without having to blitz on every passing down.

Also, you will not find in any of my posts anywhere that the Chiefs should be winning this year with or without Jared Allen.

FTR, KC was #1 or #2 in RZ scoring defense last year.

My beef isn't even with the passing defense; this rushing defense is getting pushed around like a Pop Warner League team (no offense to you kids out there) to the tune of 200 yards a game. Check out the vid in the thread starter. Our whole DL goes backwards when Carolina snaps the ball.

can't tell what your intentions are with your constant ragging about giveing up JA. You do realize that three very good draft choices were gained? Those three will go further in building this team than to hang on to a guy who didn't want to be here and to stay wanted 70 million. This team had way too many holes to fill. Trading Allen was the only smart move this team has made in several years. Previous post to you is correct. We still lost with him him...4-12. He disappeared in the 4th qtr most games. Like the offense, the defense was pretty easy to figure out what they were going to do. It was just as easy to game plan against Allen as teams do against LJ. Teams made adjustments on Allen. HOw is he doing in Minnestota?
This team in not in the toilet because JA is no longer here. It is plain that this team is in the toilet thanks to Herm, Chan and Gunther. They can't coach, motivate or plan. So, please enough of the demise of this team is due to JA being gone. No one is listening because it doesn't make sense.

Brock
10-06-2008, 08:12 AM
This defense wasn't that much better with Allen.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-06-2008, 08:18 AM
We don't need a SS. Morgan is going to be a good player, he just needs the coaching. I will say that Flowers and Carr have looked very good this year, especially given that they are n00bs, so maybe Gibbs is at least a decent coach. However, Pollard and Page are just not starting caliber players. Pollard is Greg Wesley redux, and Page is a good backup FS, strong Nickel guy.

Fire Me Boy!
10-06-2008, 08:37 AM
No one is listening because it doesn't make sense.

http://www.needtovent.com/reviews/South_Park/Chewbacca_Defense/Chewbacca_Defense.jpg

Demonpenz
10-06-2008, 08:41 AM
I wish we would move pollard to linebacker

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 08:43 AM
This defense wasn't that much better with Allen.

Really? (http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/gunther_cunningham/)


Kansas City continued its defensive ascent under Edwards and Cunningham a year ago, leading the NFL in third-down defense (30.2%) and negative plays forced (121), while allowing a league-low one TD drive of 10 plays or more. In total, the Chiefs ranked among the NFL’s top five in nine different key defensive categories in 2007.
The Chiefs were especially stingy in terms of scoring defense a year ago. Kansas City ranked second in the league, permitting TDs on just 14.5 percent of its defensive possessions and also ranked second in Red Zone defense (37.2 TD percentage). Kansas City tied for third in the league by allowing only 28 offensive TDs, the club’s best showing in that category since ‘97. Excluding opponents’ return scores, the Chiefs defense gave up 18.6 offensive ppg, the club’s lowest mark since ‘99. Kansas City’s pass defense ranked fifth in the league in 2007 (188.9 ypg). The Chiefs also tied for fifth in the NFL by forcing 47 three-and-outs and permitting 278 first downs.


This year:
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>PTS </TH></TR><TR><TD>26.2 (27th)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>YDS </TH></TR><TR><TD>391.6 (30th)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>PASS YDS </TH></TR><TR><TD>209.4 (17th)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>RUSH YDS </TH></TR><TR><TD>182.2 (31st)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Brock
10-06-2008, 08:47 AM
The rushing defense was lousy then and it is lousy now.

OnTheWarpath58
10-06-2008, 08:50 AM
Another well thought out gem from KCJ.

Fish
10-06-2008, 08:50 AM
Please don't tell me what my intentions are, OK? My point is that JA's loss is an impact factor on the miserable decline of this putrid _efense. At least with JA on the corner speed rush, we got to the QB without having to blitz on every passing down.

Also, you will not find in any of my posts anywhere that the Chiefs should be winning this year with or without Jared Allen.

FTR, KC was #1 or #2 in RZ scoring defense last year.

My beef isn't even with the passing defense; this rushing defense is getting pushed around like a Pop Warner League team (no offense to you kids out there) to the tune of 200 yards a game. Check out the vid in the thread starter. Our whole DL goes backwards when Carolina snaps the ball.

The decline began when JA was still here. His impact factor was so great that we lost 9 in a row with him on the field. Does that fact still confuse you? And Allen hasn't done squat this year on a much better defensive team. Do you really think we should have paid $70 million for those 11 tackles and 2 sacks in the middle of rebuilding? Seriously?

I don't need to check out the video you posted. Unlike you, I watched the entire game and I'm not commenting on a few select plays from a highlight video.

OnTheWarpath58
10-06-2008, 08:53 AM
The decline began when JA was still here. His impact factor was so great that we lost 9 in a row with him on the field. Does that fact still confuse you? And Allen hasn't done squat this year on a much better defensive team. Do you really think we should have paid $70 million for those 11 tackles and 2 sacks in the middle of rebuilding? Seriously?

I don't need to check out the video you posted. Unlike you, I watched the entire game and I'm not commenting on a few select plays from a highlight video.

Seriously, Nate. Don't waste your time.

Fish
10-06-2008, 08:56 AM
Really? (http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/gunther_cunningham/)


Kansas City continued its defensive ascent under Edwards and Cunningham a year ago, leading the NFL in third-down defense (30.2%) and negative plays forced (121), while allowing a league-low one TD drive of 10 plays or more. In total, the Chiefs ranked among the NFL’s top five in nine different key defensive categories in 2007.
The Chiefs were especially stingy in terms of scoring defense a year ago. Kansas City ranked second in the league, permitting TDs on just 14.5 percent of its defensive possessions and also ranked second in Red Zone defense (37.2 TD percentage). Kansas City tied for third in the league by allowing only 28 offensive TDs, the club’s best showing in that category since ‘97. Excluding opponents’ return scores, the Chiefs defense gave up 18.6 offensive ppg, the club’s lowest mark since ‘99. Kansas City’s pass defense ranked fifth in the league in 2007 (188.9 ypg). The Chiefs also tied for fifth in the NFL by forcing 47 three-and-outs and permitting 278 first downs.


This year:
<table class="statspotlight" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th class="KCcolors">PTS </th></tr><tr><td>26.2 (27th)

</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="statspotlight" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th class="KCcolors">YDS </th></tr><tr><td>391.6 (30th)

</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="statspotlight" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th class="KCcolors">PASS YDS </th></tr><tr><td>209.4 (17th)

</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table class="statspotlight" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><th class="KCcolors">RUSH YDS </th></tr><tr><td>182.2 (31st)

</td></tr></tbody></table>

Here's more stats:

Record: 4-12
4th qt sacks: 0

Big f***ing deal how well we did in the red zone. What difference did that really make? We won 4 games. All the stats in the world won't overcome the fact that we only won 4 f***ing games with Allen "leading" the defense.

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:00 AM
The decline began when JA was still here. His impact factor was so great that we lost 9 in a row with him on the field. Does that fact still confuse you? And Allen hasn't done squat this year on a much better defensive team. Do you really think we should have paid $70 million for those 11 tackles and 2 sacks in the middle of rebuilding? Seriously?

I don't need to check out the video you posted. Unlike you, I watched the entire game and I'm not commenting on a few select plays from a highlight video.

Uh, please cite a quote from me where I said we should have given Allen the money. What I said was that this defense is clearly worse without him.

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:01 AM
Here's more stats:

Record: 4-12
4th qt sacks: 0

Big f***ing deal how well we did in the red zone. What difference did that really make? We won 4 games. All the stats in the world won't overcome the fact that we only won 4 f***ing games with Allen "leading" the defense.

1. Please learn a few new adjectives.

2. The reason we were 4-12 is the low PPG average of the offense.

See how that works? good.

Brock
10-06-2008, 09:08 AM
You said "He raised the level of play of the entire defense". You were wrong/lied. The rushing defense was just as bad when he was here. Going from 28th to 31st against the run isn't significant.

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:15 AM
You said "He raised the level of play of the entire defense". You were wrong/lied. The rushing defense was just as bad when he was here. Going from 28th to 31st against the run isn't significant.

I believe its points that determine the winner in the big leagues, Mr. Brock.

2007 w/Allen: 18.6 PPG

2008 w/o Allen: 26.2 PPG

He led the NFL in sacks, he forced fumbles, recovered fumbles, intercepted passes, batted down passes, hell, he scored a TD and a 2-pt conversion. Of course, none of that fires up a defense or rallies a team.

Brock
10-06-2008, 09:17 AM
I believe its points that determine the winner in the big leagues, Mr. Brock.

2007 w/Allen: 18.6 PPG

2008 w/o Allen: 26.2 PPG

He led the NFL in sacks, forced fumbles, recovered fumbles, intercepted passes, batted down passes, hell, he scored a TD and a 2-pt conversion. Of course, none of that fires up a defense or rallies a team.

So they're losing by 15 points instead of by 8. It isn't significant. You said Allen raised the level of play of the entire defense, and you were wrong/lied.

Fish
10-06-2008, 09:20 AM
1. Please learn a few new adjectives.

2. The reason we were 4-12 is the low PPG average of the offense.

See how that works? good.

Yes, I see exactly how that works. You're forced to change your story and blame the offense now in desperation of defending your incorrect opinion.

Fairplay
10-06-2008, 09:26 AM
KCJonny, you still think LJ can get 2000 yards this year?

Reerun_KC
10-06-2008, 09:38 AM
KCJohnny....

Just want to ask Herms favorite little cheerleader a question? Is Herm still restoring that Chiefs pride?

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:41 AM
KCJohnny....

Just want to ask Herms favorite little cheerleader a question? Is Herm still restoring that Chiefs pride?

Ask me in January.

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:42 AM
Yes, I see exactly how that works. You're forced to change your story and blame the offense now in desperation of defending your incorrect opinion.

Oh, that was brilliant! Did someone help you with that or did you come up with it all on your own?

Reerun_KC
10-06-2008, 09:43 AM
Ask me in January.

sure will...

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 09:51 AM
sure will...

Fair enough, Reerun.

Bowser
10-06-2008, 09:52 AM
Wow, they looked even worse watching it the second time.

Fish
10-06-2008, 10:11 AM
Oh, that was brilliant! Did someone help you with that or did you come up with it all on your own?

It's amusing that you didn't disagree and provide a counter argument. Not surprising, but definitely amusing.

KCJohnny
10-06-2008, 10:24 AM
It's amusing that you didn't disagree and provide a counter argument. Not surprising, but definitely amusing.

It is also amusing that you were not able to follow the stream of the discussion. The offense was why we were 4-12. The 4-12 interjection was peripheral to the thread topic, which included comments about Jared Allen's contributions to the 2007 Chiefs. The defense this year is clearly much worse than the 2007 defense. The comment about the 4-12 record was injected to change the subject. I correctly identified the anemic offense in 2007 for the 4-12 record.

My arguments are cogent and easily traceable on this and other threads.

Fish
10-06-2008, 10:33 AM
It is also amusing that you were not able to follow the stream of the discussion. The offense was why we were 4-12. The 4-12 interjection was peripheral to the thread topic, which included comments about Jared Allen's contributions to the 2007 Chiefs. The defense this year is clearly much worse than the 2007 defense. The comment about the 4-12 record was injected to change the subject. I correctly identified the anemic offense in 2007 for the 4-12 record.

My arguments are cogent and easily traceable on this and other threads.

Hmm... I'm looking at the opening post, and the only mention of the offense is the fact that they tackled well. The rest of your diatribe is all about the defense and the loss of Allen. Only when it was pointed out by multiple people that your initial opinion was bullshit did you change your story to include the 07 offense.

You remain laughable.

OnTheWarpath58
10-06-2008, 11:22 AM
It is also amusing that you were not able to follow the stream of the discussion. The offense was why we were 4-12. The 4-12 interjection was peripheral to the thread topic, which included comments about Jared Allen's contributions to the 2007 Chiefs. The defense this year is clearly much worse than the 2007 defense. The comment about the 4-12 record was injected to change the subject. I correctly identified the anemic offense in 2007 for the 4-12 record.

My arguments are cogent and easily traceable on this and other threads.

The OFFENSE is why we were 4-12?

You should spend some time watching last year's games again, the defense carried more than their share of blame for those 12 losses.

BigChiefFan
10-06-2008, 12:04 PM
Gunther is specifically coaching our LBers this year, he is the LBer coach. I guess it's time for Gunther to fall on his sword.

Sully
10-06-2008, 12:17 PM
Kris Wilson should be moved to MLB!!!!
-KCJohnny