PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs It's bad when even Athan gets it...sort of


petegz28
10-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Was watching Jack Harry tonight, he had Nick on. Even Nick pointed out the fact we rushed 3 people when we had Caroline at 3rd and 13 or whatever.


That is not players, that is coaching. He went on to puff Clark saying Clark should come out and at least say something, say he backs the coach or whatever.

But the fact is even Nick Athan is laying this at the feet of the coaches. I have not heard any talking head in KC yet not blast the coaching staff for Sunday.

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 07:37 PM
He went on to puff Clark saying Clark should come out and at least say something, say he backs the coach or whatever.




Maybe Clarks silence speaks volumes??

DeezNutz
10-06-2008, 07:38 PM
MNF: Tony K., "Herm Edwards is in what we call an 'Uh-Oh situation.'"

petegz28
10-06-2008, 07:40 PM
MNF: Tony K., "Herm Edwards is in what we call an 'Uh-Oh situation.'"

Yeah I just caught that myself.

Herm is too flipping conservative. So much so it costs us cause he is too scared.

smittysbar
10-06-2008, 07:40 PM
Jack called Clark out pretty good at the beginning of the show

StcChief
10-06-2008, 07:41 PM
Jack called Clark out pretty good at the beginning of the showWell.... all we can do is hope....it's a Bill Ford situation.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 07:41 PM
Jack called Clark out pretty good at the beginning of the show

Yes he did and rightly so. I don't care for Harry but he was spot on. No pun intended.

Clark cannot let such an embarrassing performance go without saying something to the fans.

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 07:43 PM
Id like to see Len Dawson call out Clark...but it will probably never happen. Hes too loyal a soldier.

StcChief
10-06-2008, 07:44 PM
Id like to see Len Dawson call out Clark...but it will probably never happen. Hes too loyal a soldier.he's been up to that point questioning play calls etc.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 07:44 PM
Nick isn't going to trash Herm but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that it's now the beginning of the end.

ChiefsCountry
10-06-2008, 07:46 PM
I dont know if the owner going public is the best way to deal with stuff. I would say that would be a lose and lose and poor PR.

JASONSAUTO
10-06-2008, 07:49 PM
no matter how he feels clark cant come out and say either way. do we want a "vote of confidence" No. when an owner comes clean to the public he just needs to go ahead with the firing

petegz28
10-06-2008, 07:50 PM
Nick isn't going to trash Herm but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that it's now the beginning of the end.

Look I'll flat out get homely with ya....I supported Herm when he came here. I wanted the smash mouth, tough defense style of ball he was supposed to bring.

But after seeing how he has handled himself and the team, all I can say is this guy is the problem. There is no excuse for a team to look as bad as we did yesterday. I do not care how young we are. We looked unprepared, lost, soft and otherwise weak all around. That is coaching. These players are not learning anything but how to get their teeth kicked in. Players have and continue toquit on Herm and I half-ass can't blame them.

Rush 3 guys on 3rd and 13? Continue to run up the gut for 1 yard? QB options with here then\gone now players?

That's failure across the board. There are no excuses for what is going on with this team whatsoever.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 07:52 PM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.

JASONSAUTO
10-06-2008, 07:53 PM
Look I'll flat out get homely with ya....I supported Herm when he came here. I wanted the smash mouth, tough defense style of ball he was supposed to bring.

But after seeing how he has handled himself and the team, all I can say is this guy is the problem. There is no excuse for a team to look as bad as we did yesterday. I do not care how young we are. We looked unprepared, lost, soft and otherwise weak all around. That is coaching. These players are not learning anything but how to get their teeth kicked in. Players have and continue toquit on Herm and I half-ass can't blame them.
Rush 3 guys on 3rd and 13? Continue to run up the gut for 1 yard? QB options with here then\gone now players?

That's failure across the board. There are no excuses for what is going on with this team whatsoever.



QFT

KCTitus
10-06-2008, 07:54 PM
Players have and continue to quit on Herm and I half-ass can't blame them.

Rush 3 guys on 3rd and 13? Continue to run up the gut for 1 yard? QB options with here then\gone now players?

That's failure across the board. There are no excuses for what is going on with this team whatsoever.

Some of the players are quitting...Larry's play was obvious. I think he's got a touch of Randy Moss disease.

The one player making a few plays on defense was Brandon Flowers. I think he's going to be a special CB.

KCwolf
10-06-2008, 07:54 PM
Look I'll flat out get homely with ya....I supported Herm when he came here. I wanted the smash mouth, tough defense style of ball he was supposed to bring.

But after seeing how he has handled himself and the team, all I can say is this guy is the problem. There is no excuse for a team to look as bad as we did yesterday. I do not care how young we are. We looked unprepared, lost, soft and otherwise weak all around. That is coaching. These players are not learning anything but how to get their teeth kicked in. Players have and continue toquit on Herm and I half-ass can't blame them.

Rush 3 guys on 3rd and 13? Continue to run up the gut for 1 yard? QB options with here then\gone now players?

That's failure across the board. There are no excuses for what is going on with this team whatsoever.


Yep....Pretty much sums it up....however, don't let Gunther off the hook. Too many times I saw the D players with heads low and giving up.....prolly cause they were on the field for 50 minutes....but still.

smittysbar
10-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Jack also said that Chase was not going to give out the name of the Husker that spat on him

petegz28
10-06-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you have think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

Well I will even cut hims some slack on most of the draft picks. But being a Coach in the NFL means knowing how to manage the talent you have.

Herm wanted things made "simple" so damn bad when he got here. And I think he wanted that for his own sake. I have a feeling Herm is a tad bit on the micro-managment side of things. Nothing changed from Solari to Gailey. Though we saw glimpeses of old style gailey-offenses in the pre-season.

Herm is just scared. He is so scared to turn the ball over we go 3 and out on 95%+ of our possessions. He is so scared of getting burned from blitzing that he drops too many guys back in coverage and the lack of pressure gives a QB all day.

It's just scared is what it is. Scared to play football. Scared to score, scared to try to score, scared to blitz LB's and safety's. But ever team we play, and usually lose too, blitz's safety's and LB's and takes shots down field on offense and such.

Fucking amazing our coach is the only one in the NFL that doesn't get that.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 08:00 PM
Some of the players are quitting...Larry's play was obvious. I think he's got a touch of Randy Moss disease.

The one player making a few plays on defense was Brandon Flowers. I think he's going to be a special CB.

Flowers is a rookie. If I were Johnson I would be pissed too. That's a hell of a beating to take. And when you know you are going to consistently being running up the gut into 8 and 9 man fronts then I would say to you..."you do it then"

KCTitus
10-06-2008, 08:02 PM
Flowers is a rookie. If I were Johnson I would be pissed too. That's a hell of a beating to take. And when you know you are going to consistently being running up the gut into 8 and 9 man fronts then I would say to you..."you do it then"

The Charles kid did run the ball very well...I realize that it was later in the game and that Carolina had pretty much let up on KC, but he did make some nice runs.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 08:03 PM
The Charles kid did run the ball very well...I realize that it was later in the game and that Carolina had pretty much let up on KC, but he did make some nice runs.

I think defenses lay back when Charles is in though figuring higher odds for a pass play. You know when LJ is in teams are going to stack up on him.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 08:04 PM
I don't really think it would make a difference what we call on offense, pete. The line is terrible. Only one receiver can get open. One quarterback totally sucks, the other is ready for retirement, and the third can't take a hit.

But, one thing that stood for me yesterday was how they started. They came out in jumbo sets. They clearly thought Adrian Jones and Sackintosh could open holes.

And they got fucking destroyed.

It smacks of a coaching staff who has no clue about the ability of their offensive line. I could see in preseason we couldn't block anyone. And other than six quarters, we really haven't.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 08:09 PM
I don't really think it would make a difference what we call on offense, pete. The line is terrible. Only one receiver can get open. One quarterback totally sucks, the other is ready for retirement, and the third can't take a hit.

But, one thing that stood for me yesterday was how they started. They came out in jumbo sets. They clearly thought Adrian Jones and Sackintosh could open holes.

And they got ****ing destroyed.

It smacks of a coaching staff who has no clue about the ability of their offensive line. I could see in preseason we couldn't block anyone. And other than six quarters, we really haven't.


I don't think we run any plays to open things up any. And I mean safe plays. Are you telling me we can't run slants? The easiest passs play and hardest to defend and we cannot run it? All we do is run 1 yard out routes. Especially when we had the kid under center. Slants should be there a lot for our team. Maybe there is too much big play potential for a slant to burn a 8 man front for Herm? Here's another idea....ROLL THE FUCKING POCKET! I swear this is Solari 2.0 and I have to assume it is Herm putting the handcuffs on the OC for the sake of "simplicity".

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 08:12 PM
Here's another thing that really irked me yesterday: The Broncos had a great game on defense while their offense didn't do much for a large part of the game.

They probably played better on defense than we have all year. ALL YEAR. And I know we have more talent on defense than Denver.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 08:13 PM
Here's another thing that really irked me yesterday: The Broncos had a great game on defense while their offense didn't do much for a large part of the game.

They probably played better on defense than we have all year. ALL YEAR. And I know we have more talent on defense than Denver.

Shanahan isn't scared.

MahiMike
10-06-2008, 08:13 PM
It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.


Step 1 of our 12 step program has begun.

YAY!

BigVE
10-06-2008, 08:16 PM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.


WHO took over clayton's account? This post can't be by him...



Nice post, NO pimping Huard or Darling, admitting we have dreadful qb's. Wow.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 08:18 PM
WHO took over clayton's account? This post can't be by him...



Nice post, NO pimping Huard or Darling, admitting we have dreadful qb's. Wow.

I still like Huard. When we run the ball he'll be an effective quarterback. When we don't he's fucked 9 times out of 10, especially when his ancient body is creaking and squeaking.

Buehler445
10-06-2008, 08:21 PM
Nick isn't going to trash Herm but I think he's resigned himself to the fact that it's now the beginning of the end.

So I see by your sig that you are against Herm now? Back on this side of the fence are we?

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 08:22 PM
So I see by your sig that you are against Herm now? Back on this side of the fence are we?

I've had enough. We're not making progress. Herm has failed. My patience has run out.

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 08:25 PM
Claythan,


WHy can you be this honest and professional all the time?

The posts you have made in this thread are some of the best ive ever seen you make.

smittysbar
10-06-2008, 08:27 PM
Claythan,


WHy can you be this honest and professional all the time?

The posts you have made in this thread are some of the best ive ever seen you make.

I agree

BigVE
10-06-2008, 08:28 PM
I understand Clayton, I agree with you on both parts. NO QB could have been successful for us against Carolina. None. That is/was not Huard's fault. LJ could not run the ball the save his life...that is not really LJ's fault. The whole game plan and scheme was NON existent. That all comes down to coaching...EVERYONE in the entire country new Carolina was going to try to stuff the run and make Huard beat them yet we had NO counter attack what so ever. That is all coaching or lack thereof. Enough is enough.

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 08:30 PM
I still like Huard. When we run the ball he'll be an effective quarterback. When we don't he's ****ed 9 times out of 10, especially when his ancient body is creaking and squeaking.


Thats probably true.

Marty got decent mileage out of Huard once. He was called Steve Deberg back then.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 08:31 PM
Claythan,


WHy can you be this honest and professional all the time?

The posts you have made in this thread are some of the best ive ever seen you make.

Honestly I waited this long for what I feel were valid reasons. Judging this team while Thigpen was out there wasn't logical IMO. I thought New England was a positive and Denver was, too obviously.

There is no excuse for what happened in Carolina. We made no progress whatsoever. There's no reason to think anything is going to get better because the talent Herm has assembled is not capable.

They went into the season thinking Hali would pan out, the right side would block people, and we had talented depth at quarterback. They sorely, sorely miscalculated.

Why should we trust them to find replacements?

The ONLY excuse I can come up with is:

1. The knew they were fucked in all three areas, and would need another offseason to correct the talent voids.

2. Clark was blowing smoke with his compete for the playoffs comment, and was prepared to ride out a down year.

But I don't think either of those statements are true.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 08:34 PM
Honestly I waited this long for what I feel were valid reasons. Judging this team while Thigpen was out there wasn't logical IMO. I thought New England was a positive and Denver was, too obviously.

There is no excuse for what happened in Carolina. We made no progress whatsoever. There's no reason to think anything is going to get better because the talent Herm has assembled is not capable.

They went into the season thinking Hali would pan out, the right side would block people, and we had talented depth at quarterback. They sorely, sorely miscalculated.

Why should we trust them to find replacements?

The ONLY excuse I can come up with is:

1. The knew they were ****ed in all three areas, and would need another offseason to correct the talent voids.

2. Clark was blowing smoke with his compete for the playoffs comment, and was prepared to ride out a down year.

But I don't think either of those statements are true.


We only looked good against New England cause Brady was knocked out and it was the first game of the year.

We actually played a good game against Denver. But that seems to of been luck more than anything.

Marcellus
10-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Honestly I waited this long for what I feel were valid reasons. Judging this team while Thigpen was out there wasn't logical IMO. I thought New England was a positive and Denver was, too obviously.

There is no excuse for what happened in Carolina. We made no progress whatsoever. There's no reason to think anything is going to get better because the talent Herm has assembled is not capable.

They went into the season thinking Hali would pan out, the right side would block people, and we had talented depth at quarterback. They sorely, sorely miscalculated.

Why should we trust them to find replacements?

The ONLY excuse I can come up with is:

1. The knew they were ****ed in all three areas, and would need another offseason to correct the talent voids.

2. Clark was blowing smoke with his compete for the playoffs comment, and was prepared to ride out a down year.

But I don't think either of those statements are true.

The fact they keep running I77 out there is one of the biggest signs Hem is moron. You can't tell me we don't have 2 better options at RT on the roster right now. He was a big reason the offense was getting maulled.

BigVE
10-06-2008, 08:37 PM
We only looked good against New England cause Brady was knocked out and it was the first game of the year.

We actually played a good game against Denver. But that seems to of been luck more than anything.

Something else to consider about the New England game is that since it was the first game of the season our pitiful coaching staff had alot of extra time to "game plan" and "scheme" for the Pat's....during the season our inept staff ONLY has a few days to come up with a game plan. i.e. the Panthers game.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-06-2008, 08:58 PM
Honestly I waited this long for what I feel were valid reasons. Judging this team while Thigpen was out there wasn't logical IMO. I thought New England was a positive and Denver was, too obviously.

There is no excuse for what happened in Carolina. We made no progress whatsoever. There's no reason to think anything is going to get better because the talent Herm has assembled is not capable.

They went into the season thinking Hali would pan out, the right side would block people, and we had talented depth at quarterback. They sorely, sorely miscalculated.

Why should we trust them to find replacements?

The ONLY excuse I can come up with is:

1. The knew they were fucked in all three areas, and would need another offseason to correct the talent voids.

2. Clark was blowing smoke with his compete for the playoffs comment, and was prepared to ride out a down year.

But I don't think either of those statements are true.

I fell off a couple of weeks ago against Oakland dude. If you had been able to watch that game live I think you would've too. I tried so hard not to give up on Herm because the last thing I want to do is start all over AGAIN. They were worse yesterday I have no doubt, but the game against Oakland was as inept of a football team that I had ever seen. At home. Against the Raiders. Yesterday was just a continuation of that.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 09:00 PM
I think the only thing that could save Herm's job at this point is Croyle coming out the last 11 weeks and just lighting everyone the fuck up. Like, 15-20 TDs in the last 11 games.

Failing that, I think Herm is done. He certainly doesn't deserve another young quarterback.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-06-2008, 09:01 PM
I've been saying it since yesterday and I'll continue until someone proves me wrong. Clark Hunt doesn't give a shit about football. If he did, at the VERY LEAST, Dick Curl would be motherfuckin fired Ari Gold style.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 09:05 PM
I've been saying it since yesterday and I'll continue until someone proves me wrong. Clark Hunt doesn't give a shit about football. If he did, at the VERY LEAST, Dick Curl would be motherfuckin fired Ari Gold style.

Based on the interviews I've heard Clark give, and these were private interviews, he cares very much. He just has a lot of tact and patience. He will wait until the end of the year and silently chop Herm and Carl's heads off with a meat cleaver, metaphorically speaking, of course.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-06-2008, 09:13 PM
Based on the interviews I've heard Clark give, and these were private interviews, he cares very much. He just has a lot of tact and patience. He will wait until the end of the year and silently chop Herm and Carl's heads off with a meat cleaver, metaphorically speaking, of course.

I hope you're right dude. Why hasn't Curl been fired? There is really no excuse IMO.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 09:15 PM
I hope you're right dude. Why hasn't Curl been fired? There is really no excuse IMO.

Clark doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's going to meddle in that sort of thing. In fact, I'd be surprised if any owner does that, save Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

Herm is obviously completely devoted to Curl. I was reading Jimmy Johnson's book last night and he explained how good coaching staffs have to be closely bonded, how every member has to have a good working relationship, almost like they are brothers. I'm sure Herm believes in that - after all, he dumped all of Dick's guys - and isn't about to fire Curl.

petegz28
10-06-2008, 09:16 PM
I hope you're right dude. Why hasn't Curl been fired? There is really no excuse IMO.

As Jack Harry said on his show tonight, it's a good ole' boys club at Arrowhead. Dick Curl has no business being a QB coach. It might explain the lack of productivity at our QB position.

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 09:18 PM
I'm sure Herm believes in that - after all, he dumped all of Dick's guys - and isn't about to fire Curl.

Every coach has "his guys"

Too bad Herms "guys" are not any good.

Sure-Oz
10-06-2008, 09:18 PM
Herm is an assistant coach/position coach at best

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 09:23 PM
Herm is an assistant coach/position coach at best

I have a feeling some team will take a chance on him when he is fired.

The Bengals are ready to dump Marvin I'm sure. The Texans and Lions are in disarray, although Houston's owner REALLY doesn't give a shit.

Sure-Oz
10-06-2008, 09:26 PM
I have a feeling some team will take a chance on him when he is fired.

The Bengals are ready to dump Marvin I'm sure. The Texans and Lions are in disarray, although Houston's owner REALLY doesn't give a shit.

It wouldn't suprise me if he goes to the lions and makes Calvin Johnson and Roy Williams primary blocking WR's

Deberg_1990
10-06-2008, 09:27 PM
I have a feeling some team will take a chance on him when he is fired.

The Bengals are ready to dump Marvin I'm sure. The Texans and Lions are in disarray, although Houston's owner REALLY doesn't give a shit.

It amazing Herm is allowed to be a head coach, yet Al Saunders never gets a shot?? Something is up there obviously.

Dave Lane
10-06-2008, 09:38 PM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.

Amen brother!!

smittysbar
10-06-2008, 09:48 PM
Herm will never get a shot at a HC job after the Chiefs, if he does, the team deserves what it gets

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Herm will never get a shot at a HC job after the Chiefs, if he does, the team deserves what it gets

Let's not pile on Herm Edwards. He's a good guy. He was just over his head in KC.

Herm + Carl = recipe for disaster. Herm needs a better GM.

smittysbar
10-06-2008, 09:59 PM
Let's not pile on Herm Edwards. He's a good guy. He was just over his head in KC.

Herm + Carl = recipe for disaster. Herm needs a better GM.

I couldn't stand him as HC before he came here. I can pile on him as a head coach all I want. I could care less how good of a guy he is. He is getting rich, screwing up the team that I love.

alanm
10-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Jack also said that Chase was not going to give out the name of the Husker that spat on him
Off topic somewhat, but then I call the whole incident bullshit. :shake:

triple
10-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Off topic somewhat, but then I call the whole incident bullshit. :shake:

it's hard to believe after one of their players decked one of our fans in Columbia

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 10:03 PM
I couldn't stand him as HC before he came here. I can pile on him as a head coach all I want. I could care less how good of a guy he is. He is getting rich, screwing up the team that I love.

I agree. Herm took $12 million out of the Hunts pocket and wasted three years of Larry Johnson's career. That's actually quite enough to make me hate him, actually.

cdcox
10-06-2008, 10:40 PM
They went into the season thinking Hali would pan out, the right side would block people, and we had talented depth at quarterback. They sorely, sorely miscalculated.



Well, my preseason prognosis on these topics was was that we wouldn't have a pass rush this year, that the right side of the line would be awful, and that I would give Croyle a chance but really didn't expect it to pan out. I know several others (Milkman, Mecca) held similar opinions.

I have to think Herm or Chan or somebody knew what the story was. The only thing I can say is that Clark made his media blitz as soon as the season was over. Maybe the staff had not had enough time away from the week to week game preparations to fully assess how many holes the team had. They orver-optimistically told Clark that the ship could be turned in the right direction in one year, and only later did they realize that there was no way to address all the needs.

Or they're idiots.

triple
10-06-2008, 10:45 PM
Well, my preseason prognosis on these topics was was that we wouldn't have a pass rush this year, that the right side of the line would be awful, and that I would give Croyle a chance but really didn't expect it to pan out. I know several others (Milkman, Mecca) held similar opinions.

my thoughts were that the line couldn't be any worse than last year, i guess it's about the same, and that the defense was going to get a lot worse without any form of a pass rush. it hasn't got a lot worse.

i think we're basically the same team as last year, we have just combined the same bottom of the barrel offense with a bottom of the barrel defense but added the fact that the coaching has been even worse than ever and a few players like Bowe and Johnson and the safeties are regressing

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 10:45 PM
Carl thought Welbourn and Terry would fix the line.

Herm apparently thought Jones and Sackintosh would.

I'd say, yeah, they're both idiots. They sat there and thought, hey, let's start these bums. We'll be able to run the ball now.

I mean...they didn't sit there thinking...well, we won't be able to run the ball, but this is all we have right now and I don't want to waste money on a free agent.

They couldn't possibly have done that, could they?

Does it make any sense to accept a unit on your team will completely suck before the season, and do nothing to address it?

aturnis
10-06-2008, 10:53 PM
Carl thought Welbourn and Terry would fix the line.

Herm apparently thought Jones and Sackintosh would.

I'd say, yeah, they're both idiots. They sat there and thought, hey, let's start these bums. We'll be able to run the ball now.

I mean...they didn't sit there thinking...well, we won't be able to run the ball, but this is all we have right now and I don't want to waste money on a free agent.

They couldn't possibly have done that, could they?

Does it make any sense to accept a unit on your team will completely suck before the season, and do nothing to address it?

Yes, they could, and I believe they did. I believe Herm got a lot of the control away from Carl, and beings he's an idiot, fucked us.

I almost believe he wants another bad year for another good draft. It really seems like the games we really come out for, are the ones they actually coach well. The Oakland's and Carolina's, the ones they purposely call bad plays in, to fuck our record. The playcalling on both sides was THAT bad. Absolutely no imagination.

cdcox
10-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Carl thought Welbourn and Terry would fix the line.

Herm apparently thought Jones and Sackintosh would.

I'd say, yeah, they're both idiots. They sat there and thought, hey, let's start these bums. We'll be able to run the ball now.

I mean...they didn't sit there thinking...well, we won't be able to run the ball, but this is all we have right now and I don't want to waste money on a free agent.

They couldn't possibly have done that, could they?

Does it make any sense to accept a unit on your team will completely suck before the season, and do nothing to address it?

Depends on what your goal is. If the goal is to finish respectably then you needed to do more on the OL, at a minimum. If your goal is to get younger, rebuild the right way, and avoid expensive free agents, then you were basically committed to sucking for another year or two.

Ironically, I don't mind the sucking nearly as much as I do the way we are sucking. That I hated from from the first season Herm was here. I didn't like Herm as coach when he was with the Jets. If the coaching was imaginative (on both sides of the ball) I could live with the sucking and give them more time to come together. The point is, I don't want this staff around when we eventually do start improving the talent.

Count Alex's Wins
10-06-2008, 11:04 PM
If your goal is to get younger, rebuild the right way, and avoid expensive free agents, then you were basically committed to sucking for another year or two.

Yeah, but did they realize they'd spend another season not running the ball? I can't imagine it's going to get better.

I mean, Herm's entire philosophy towards winning games falls apart if his teams can't run.

If what you are saying is accurate, they basically conceded the season.

I can't imagine that's what happened, though.

cdcox
10-06-2008, 11:28 PM
Yeah, but did they realize they'd spend another season not running the ball? I can't imagine it's going to get better.

I mean, Herm's entire philosophy towards winning games falls apart if his teams can't run.

If what you are saying is accurate, they basically conceded the season.

I can't imagine that's what happened, though.

I'm not going to make excuses, but I can see how it could have happened. Maybe they expected to pick up two immediate starting OL in the draft. But the way the picks fell on draft day, and sticking to their board, they only ended up with one. By then there was no one in FA that they consider a value and young. They still figured they were still okay because with all of those young OL guys, surely, they thought, some combination would be better than last year.

I still believe failing mistake was to put MacIntosh at RT. MacIntosh was a serviceable (not terrible) LT last year. Leave him at LT, put Albert at RT. Now maybe you have adequate pass protection on the left and can run right behind Albert. Or just sit MacIntosh altogehter and go with Taylor on the right side. MacInthosh at RT was never going to be a success.

The other thing is that our offenses have been increasingly directed toward running between the tackles the last couple years. I don't think that suits LJ unless you are opening large holes. His feet aren't particularly quick and he doesn't have good vision for bouncing it outside. Some of his best runs this year have been on outside pitches. Again, the coaching isn't helping the lack of talent.

el borracho
10-06-2008, 11:34 PM
Clark cannot let such an embarrassing performance go without saying something to the fans.

Owners can't say something critical mid-season without actually firing the coach or GM or you end up like the Raiders were for the first quarter of the season- with a lame duck head coach and an enormous PR eyesore. If/when Clark gets fed up with Herm and/or Carl the first public words should be to announce that they have been let go. Until Clark reaches that point he is right to remain silent.

aturnis
10-06-2008, 11:39 PM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.

Are you kidding me? It's not about play calling or philosophy? The play call has been atrocious, no excuse for the lack of creativity, or diversity.

As far as talent, he has brought in a lot of talent. Does not coach it well though. They don't take advantage of their strengths, and don't compensate for their weaknesses.

I do think he miss judged units as a whole. I think Herm has no business near an O-line. He honestly believes that it an O-lineman is big, he is going to kick the shite out of the guy on the other side of the ball. He does not understand that there is more to it. He said we were going to be big up front, and he wasn't kidding. Though if he REALLY wanted to run a zone blocking scheme, he really needs to learn what that takes.

I honestly can think of no reason that Taylor is riding pine and Niswanger is playing center. Together they make the best possible right side, and if they start now, they could hold down the right side for years. Both are young and talented. Not to mention that this is the side we run towards most of the time.

The cues that our offensive personnel gives to the opposing defenses are ridiculous. Larry Johnson has become a liability at no fault of his own. If he's in, it's a run, most likely up the gut or to the right. If he's not in, it's likely a pass or a screen to Charles. Beings we don't pass much, either a screen to Charles or a run to the left with Charles.
Has anyone noticed that LJ's big runs has usually come when he cuts back to opposite direction the play is designed to go? On that 65 yarder, half of the Donk's D was crashing to the left side. I think I heard somewhere that Albert has a tell.(hope that's not true)

As for the D-line...did anyone here actually believe moving Tamba Hali to the right was a good idea? I hated the idea, it wreaked of dumbassery. Especially when Herm said time and time again, "You can't try to replace Jared Allen, You can't do that." Moving Tamba to the right was an attempt to replace JA if I ever saw one. I really hope next season Tamba will be back on the left where he belongs. If not as early as Tennessee.

Both lines are completely Herms fault. I believe he plays a big role in the reason our secondary is relatively promising. I'd have to assume Gun is the reason for DJ and DeMorrio may be a Gun/Herm thing. I would expect Gun would have wanted to play Donnie at MLB, Gun loves Donnie, why wouldn't he want him in there? Maybe Herm wouldn't allow it. So, we go young like Herm wants and get Pat Thomas and mistakes.

It seems Herm gives Dick Curl and Gunther free reign over their units with a little bit of meddling that hinders the units as a whole. While the Line coaches and secondary coaches refer to him for all major decisions. As for the receivers coaches, I have no idea. Maybe he has his say there too.

I didn't like Herm when he came here. I liked the idea of building the defense, but wasn't convinced he knew what he was doing. I don't think he does. He has though, brought in a lot of great talent through the draft and a few in FA. This year, Darling sinks Demorrio swims.

His neglect of the offense was stupid. Letting players walk and bringing in bodies to fill spots. Now look at this mess. This team can play better than Oakland and Carolina, they just need better coaching and playcalling.

I miss Vermeil's offense, I also miss Schottenheimer's defense.

el borracho
10-06-2008, 11:40 PM
Herm is just scared. He is so scared to turn the ball over we go 3 and out on 95%+ of our possessions. He is so scared of getting burned from blitzing that he drops too many guys back in coverage and the lack of pressure gives a QB all day.

One of the touchdowns yesterday came on an all-out blitz; the receiver was all alone on the outside. We have blitzed- we just haven't been very effective with it. Of course, we haven't been terribly effective without it, either which is, IMO, largely due to the ridiculous imbalance in the time of possession. Our defense has to be sick and (literally) tired of handing the ball to the offense only to return to the field 3 minutes later in worse position.

aturnis
10-06-2008, 11:46 PM
Well, my preseason prognosis on these topics was was that we wouldn't have a pass rush this year, that the right side of the line would be awful, and that I would give Croyle a chance but really didn't expect it to pan out. I know several others (Milkman, Mecca) held similar opinions.

You can put me in that category as well. I basically agreed, just didn't believe it to be as dire a situation as it really is. I thought the season would be 4-6 wins maybe, and I believe with good coaching, it could be. With the lack thereof, we will be lucky to win another one.

Can't wait 'til Schottenheimer becomes our GM.

ChiefsCountry
10-07-2008, 12:14 AM
Can't wait 'til Schottenheimer becomes our GM.

:rolleyes:

Mecca
10-07-2008, 12:18 AM
The problem is as a GM or HC you can't look at the team like you're a fan, sure people here can be optimistic but especially as a GM you need to be heavily critical of your own players. You can't just be like "oh well this guy will pan out and we'll be ok"

You need to look at everything from the most realistic negative perspective, because odds are most things won't pan out.

cookster50
10-07-2008, 07:10 AM
Let's not pile on Herm Edwards. He's a good guy. He was just over his head in KC.

Herm + Carl = recipe for disaster. Herm needs a better GM.

There's the Clayton we all know. Herm may be a good guy, but as a head coach, he sucks baows.

petegz28
10-07-2008, 08:28 AM
Owners can't say something critical mid-season without actually firing the coach or GM or you end up like the Raiders were for the first quarter of the season- with a lame duck head coach and an enormous PR eyesore. If/when Clark gets fed up with Herm and/or Carl the first public words should be to announce that they have been let go. Until Clark reaches that point he is right to remain silent.

I do not belive that 1 iota. I can think of a few teams who have won super bowls under current owership who have done just what you said they cannot.

Brock
10-07-2008, 08:42 AM
So you're saying the coaching is bad?

Skip Towne
10-07-2008, 08:47 AM
Herm will never get a shot at a HC job after the Chiefs, if he does, the team deserves what it gets

Agreed. There isn't anyone stupid enough to hire that loser.

dirk digler
10-07-2008, 08:53 AM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

It's sad to say but I'm really hoping we get shut out again against the Titans. It might kickstart what's needed.

I am with you Clayton. The more this team loses the better the odds of Carl AND Herm are gone

CoMoChief
10-07-2008, 09:05 AM
Fire Herm!!!!

CoMoChief
10-07-2008, 09:06 AM
I am with you Clayton. The more this team losing the better the odds of Carl AND Herm are gone

And the less amount of people show up at arrowhead.

dallaschiefsfan
10-07-2008, 10:31 AM
I agree with you 100 percent pete. For me it's not even an issue of playcalling or philosophy. It's an issue of the players Herm has brought in. You can count on one hand the number of truly solid starters Herm is responsible for. Maybe two if you think the rookies will pan out.

If Clark Hunt wanted the Chiefs to compete for the playoffs this year, surely it was not Herm's intention to enter the regular season with a piss-poor offensive line, no pass rush, and dreadful quarterbacks.

In that case, we have to seriously question his judgment of talent.

No, no NO! I don't even see how you can question the level of talent on this team with such poor coaching and game prep. It's like trying to judge the talent of a race car driver that's been given a Corolla to use in a NASCAR race. This is stupid. We won't ever know what we have talent-wise until a legit coach handles these players.

A great example was the drafting of Dante Hall. He looked terrible and like a mistake, no-talent, too-small half-back under the reign of GUN-ther. Enter Vermeil. He sees a way to maximize what's in Hall's tank and turns him into an ace returner and decent receiver for a few years. Vermeil...love him or hate him, was a good HEAD COACH. Regardless of what Herm might be good at...it's not HEAD COACHING.

Stop making judgment calls on the talent...especially young talent. You simply don't know what you have until a grown-up starts coaching this team.

Count Alex's Wins
10-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Stop making judgment calls on the talent...especially young talent. .

I'm mostly talking about the right side of the offensive line and the defensive ends. Crap, crap and more crap.

If the Chiefs were getting production from those four spots they'd probably be a much better football team right now.

dallaschiefsfan
10-07-2008, 11:27 AM
I'm mostly talking about the right side of the offensive line and the defensive ends. Crap, crap and more crap.

If the Chiefs were getting production from those four spots they'd probably be a much better football team right now.

If you're talking McIntosh, I think we all agree on this. Nothing new there. Jones is still a mystery for me because he's yet to have a legit coach prep him. Same with Rudy. McIntosh is a vet...he should know better.

As for the defensive side of the ball...again...I would agree on Hali, but jury is still out on Turk, Tank and Dorsey. They aren't vets and thus, they've never had a legit NFL head coach.

Herm is a secondary coach...especially CB's. Naturally, that's the best part of our team's progress. What have we learned? Herm would be a great cornerbacks coach for the Chiefs.

Count Alex's Wins
10-07-2008, 11:39 AM
Is the jury really out on Turk? He doesn't look like a guy who's ever going to be an effective edge rusher.

I like Tank and Dorsey.

Micjones
10-07-2008, 11:45 AM
NFL talking heads and sports personalities around the country are sounding off more and more with each passing week and subsequent loss.

Ron Jaworski spoke out on the situation here in Kansas City yesterday.

Hopefully that gets under Clark's skin.

Count Alex's Wins
10-07-2008, 11:47 AM
What did Jaws say? He's in Herm's back pocket usually.

Reerun_KC
10-07-2008, 11:50 AM
NFL talking heads and sports personalities around the country are sounding off more and more with each passing week and subsequent loss.

Ron Jaworski spoke out on the situation here in Kansas City yesterday.

Hopefully that gets under Clark's skin.

What has been said?

ChiefsCountry
10-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Jaws said it on PTI as well last night that Clark Hunt is looking into making major changes.

DenverDanChiefsFan
10-07-2008, 12:02 PM
Jaws said it on PTI as well last night that Clark Hunt is looking into making major changes.Did he happen to say when? Maybe during the bye week?????:) (we can hope can't we?)

blueballs
10-07-2008, 12:54 PM
Edwards may have ruined LJ
and may be ruining the MVP
Colquitt has developed a limp