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KCJohnny
10-12-2008, 08:13 AM
ACORN is a real piece of work. This (http://http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj-acorn_squash.htm) is from the Manhattan Institute.


While Acorn now operates in more than 100 cities with a national budget of $37 million, it never truly left behind the welfare-rights mentality. One is hard-pressed to find in the organization's many antipoverty initiatives any programs that address social dysfunctions like illegitimacy and single parenthood. Instead, as Acorn's executive director, Steven Kest, said several years ago, "We are more focused on irresponsible behavior in the corporate sector. I don't think [illegitimacy] comes anywhere close to the irresponsible behavior of people running the largest businesses in this country."
While CRA spurred Acorn's growth, the "living wage" is the group's most successful local issue. In the early '90s, advocates persuaded Baltimore to require city government contractors to pay salaries substantially above the federal minimum wage; the campaign caught the attention of Acorn just when the Gingrich Congress was coming into power with a conservative agenda. Stymied in Washington, Acorn decided instead it would work city by city, starting in the most liberal places, to enact local wage legislation. Partnering with Wayne State University's publicly funded labor studies program, Acorn set up a national living-wage center to help coordinate campaigns. Some 125 municipalities have since passed living-wage legislation.
The movement is not always what it appears to be. Though Acorn touts living-wage laws as a way to lift the working poor into the middle class, the vast body of academic work on wage laws shows that they end up hurting the poor by forcing businesses to eliminate some low-wage jobs. Acorn's own leadership understands this principle perfectly. When California regulators sued Acorn for not paying its own workers the minimum wage, Acorn argued that this would endanger its mission—because it would have to hire fewer workers.


This is astounding considering homes headed by a single parent is the #1 cause of poverty in the US.

Obama Had a Close Relationship with the "Anti-Capitalist" Group ACORN - "Obama has had an intimate and long-term association with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn)...Chicago Acorn appears to have played a major role in Obama’s political advance...Acorn’s radical agenda sometimes shifts toward “undisguised authoritarian socialism.” Source: Stanley Kurtz, National Review (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI#more)

splatbass
10-12-2008, 09:08 AM
Here is the truth about ACORN, John. Since you are supposedly a Christian (I've yet to see any evidence in your hate and lie filled posts, but ok...) I thought you might want to start telling the truth about them.

ACORN

Perhaps the most misreported story is the ACORN story. It is shocking much difference there is between the actual story and the reported story. The story is that ACORN is piling up fraudulent voters. The suggestion is that all of these fraudulent voters are going to steal the election for Obama. Here’s what you need to need to know about this story.

* ACORN is an agency which registers new voters, both Republicans and Democrats. They are a non-partisan group.
* ACORN, as well as any agency which does get out the vote drives, is required by law to turn in all registration forms.
* ACORN tries to verify the contact information of every single card. Those that aren’t verified are “flagged” and kept in a separate stack.
* ACORN notified authorities that they had a large number of potentially fraudulent cards and were ignored until they were “raided” recently.
* The reason that such a high percentage of those being reviewed are being found to be fraudulent is because they are reviewing the stacks of flagged cards.
* Overall 99.8 percent of the 1.2 million voters ACORN has registered are legitimate.

Sorry if the truth goes against your beliefs, but the truth is the truth and you should tell it. Jesus would.

banyon
10-12-2008, 09:28 AM
Here is the truth about ACORN, John. Since you are supposedly a Christian (I've yet to see any evidence in your hate and lie filled posts, but ok...) I thought you might want to start telling the truth about them.

ACORN

Perhaps the most misreported story is the ACORN story. It is shocking much difference there is between the actual story and the reported story. The story is that ACORN is piling up fraudulent voters. The suggestion is that all of these fraudulent voters are going to steal the election for Obama. Here’s what you need to need to know about this story.

* ACORN is an agency which registers new voters, both Republicans and Democrats. They are a non-partisan group.
* ACORN, as well as any agency which does get out the vote drives, is required by law to turn in all registration forms.
* ACORN tries to verify the contact information of every single card. Those that aren’t verified are “flagged” and kept in a separate stack.
* ACORN notified authorities that they had a large number of potentially fraudulent cards and were ignored until they were “raided” recently.
* The reason that such a high percentage of those being reviewed are being found to be fraudulent is because they are reviewing the stacks of flagged cards.
* Overall 99.8 percent of the 1.2 million voters ACORN has registered are legitimate.

Sorry if the truth goes against your beliefs, but the truth is the truth and you should tell it. Jesus would.

Complete pwnage, though I doubt KCJ will acknowledge its existence unless he posts some more right wing-sourced cut and pastes in lieu of a reply on the merits.

OnTheWarpath58
10-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Complete pwnage, though I doubt KCJ will acknowledge its existence unless he posts some more right wing-sourced cut and pastes in lieu of a reply on the merits.

Yeah, I guess he has gotten that predictable.

irishjayhawk
10-12-2008, 09:33 AM
National Review? Seriously?

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 09:34 AM
...the "living wage" is the group's most successful local issue.
Flat out communism.

irishjayhawk
10-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Flat out communism.

You really would have been a good Red Scare facilitator. Perhaps even McCarthy himself.

KCJohnny
10-12-2008, 09:50 AM
Complete pwnage, though I doubt KCJ will acknowledge its existence unless he posts some more right wing-sourced cut and pastes in lieu of a reply on the merits.

Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.

KCJohnny
10-12-2008, 09:50 AM
Flat out communism.

:clap:

irishjayhawk
10-12-2008, 09:51 AM
Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.

Middle America is outraged that you speak on behalf of them.

OnTheWarpath58
10-12-2008, 09:53 AM
Middle America is outraged that you speak on behalf of them.

Rep.

BigChiefFan
10-12-2008, 10:26 AM
How the fuck do you know what Middle America is thinking? You are clear across the world, don't profess to know what others are thinking, you freakin' holier than-thou twat.

HolyHandgernade
10-12-2008, 10:50 AM
This is astounding considering homes headed by a single parent is the #1 cause of poverty in the US.

What a worthless statement. Its on par with saying, "The majority of all accidents happen within 5 miles of the home." If the majority of households need two incomes to get by, then statistically speaking, single income households have a greater chance of being below the poverty line. What does the Right say about that:

"Make abortions illegal, birth control unavailable through welfare, and preach the virtues of abstinence over real sex education". Oh yeah, then act surprised and dismayed when single parenthood goes up. Single parenthood is a problem, but the Right always has a reactive disgust, not a proactive attempt to address it. Thanks for your outrage.

-HH

Ultra Peanut
10-12-2008, 11:06 AM
This is astounding considering homes headed by a single parent is the #1 cause of poverty in the US.Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

This was a great line even by your standards.

Adept Havelock
10-12-2008, 11:09 AM
What a worthless statement. Its on par with saying, "The majority of all accidents happen within 5 miles of the home." If the majority of households need two incomes to get by, then statistically speaking, single income households have a greater chance of being below the poverty line. What does the Right say about that:

"Make abortions illegal, birth control unavailable through welfare, and preach the virtues of abstinence over real sex education". Oh yeah, then act surprised and dismayed when single parenthood goes up. Single parenthood is a problem, but the Right always has a reactive disgust, not a proactive attempt to address it. Thanks for your outrage.

-HH

Sure they do..."Don't have sex unless you get a piece of paper from the State that says it's OK". :rolleyes:

bango
10-12-2008, 11:14 AM
Flat out communism.

People wanting to be able to be paid a wage that will help them to stay off of the streets is Communism and not just Communism, but FLAT OUT COMMUNISM? Do you know what the minimum wage is? It is paid by companies that would like to pay one less, but the law will not allow them to. Well we would like to pay you in whiskey, but the state and the feds make us pay you in cash. Do you and people like you just not give a damn about anyone else or what? You may want to know that you are sounding like a Snotty Nosed Little Reaganite more and more these days.

Mr. Flopnuts
10-12-2008, 02:30 PM
Flat out communism.

QFG

DaneMcCloud
10-12-2008, 02:39 PM
Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.

How the FUCK do you know what "Middle America" wants? You've been out of the country for the better part of the past 5 years.

Besides that, who elected you as their spokesperson?

banyon
10-12-2008, 04:02 PM
Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.

As I predicted you chose not to reply to Splatbass's post on the merits, but instead threw around some vague comments and attacked me instead, though I will admit this was not one of my more difficult predictions to make.

Mecca
10-12-2008, 04:04 PM
QFG

Quoted For Gonads?

jAZ
10-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.
Your reply is pathetic, in that you are presented with some damning factual assertions, and your response is to claim the poster is ignoring the actual facts and then rather than present those supposed facts, you point to the opnion of "middle america".

How is the opinion of "middle america" in anyway a refutation of the facts you were presented WRT ACORN?

Pathetic.

MahiMike
10-12-2008, 05:05 PM
Complete ignorance of the actual facts. ACORN may look legit in your little internet bubble, but middle America is outraged.

No, America believes whatever the media tells them to believe (if they let it).

***SPRAYER
10-12-2008, 05:13 PM
Notice the woman to B.O.'s right is wearing an ACORN shirt.

:hmmm:

bango
10-12-2008, 05:25 PM
Notice the woman to B.O.'s right is wearing an ACORN shirt.

:hmmm:

Police, arrest this woman! She is in on it with him!

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 05:29 PM
People wanting to be able to be paid a wage that will help them to stay off of the streets is Communism and not just Communism, but FLAT OUT COMMUNISM? Do you know what the minimum wage is? It is paid by companies that would like to pay one less, but the law will not allow them to. Well we would like to pay you in whiskey, but the state and the feds make us pay you in cash. Do you and people like you just not give a damn about anyone else or what? You may want to know that you are sounding like a Snotty Nosed Little Reaganite more and more these days.
I LOVE Reagan. I have NO problem being called a Reaganite. He's a hero of mine. But your ad hominem attack on the "snotty" tells me you can't articulate an adequate defense of your stand. You may want to know you're sounding like a Marxist revolutionary. Back at 'cha!

Now what does the minimum wage have to do with the living wage, an entirely different concept which factually IS flat out communism. Do you know what it is? Falls under Plank #8 of Marx's Comm Manifesto. Take a look at it. It creates more problems than they solve. Our poor live better than most other people in the world. They live better without living wages too. This stuff does not work. It has nothing to do with "feelings" good or bad for anyone.

As regards the minimum wage been through the min wage debate before here. It mainly affects teenagers. It's so low hardly anyone pays it anymore. WalMart starts cashiers out at $8 per hour here and kids babysit for that fee too. Meanwhile illegal immigrants work for less than the minimum wage. A living wage is much more than just a minimum ...it is flat out communism. It reduces everyone down to a certain level or common denominator.

I'd rather the Fed stop inflating things because wages don't keeping up with the price increases. There are far better ways to handle declining standard of living than socialism/communism. ( really they end up in the same place).

A living wage is communistic. I'm not interested in creating equal poverty for all by implementing such economic nonsense.

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 05:31 PM
No, America believes whatever the media tells them to believe (if they let it).

What he said.

***SPRAYER
10-12-2008, 05:36 PM
Police, arrest this woman! She is in on it with him!


It doesn't bother you that in a dozen states ACORN offices are being raided by the FBI?

It doesn't bother you that B.O. was an ACORN organizer?

ROYC75
10-12-2008, 05:41 PM
I found this funny on the day that Nevada raided ACORN .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWufhgdr7E

Logical
10-12-2008, 05:43 PM
Flat out communism.I am really becoming tired of your schtick. It is sort of pathetic.

***SPRAYER
10-12-2008, 05:43 PM
I found this funny on the day that Nevada raided ACORN .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWufhgdr7E

Freudian slip.

bango
10-12-2008, 05:51 PM
I LOVE Reagan. I have NO problem being called a Reaganite. He's a hero of mine. But your ad hominem attack on the "snotty" tells me you can't articulate an adequate defense of your stand. You may want to know you're sounding like a Marxist revolutionary. Back at 'cha!

Now what does the minimum wage have to do with the living wage, an entirely different concept which factually IS flat out communism. Do you know what it is? Falls under Plank #8 of Marx's Comm Manifesto. Take a look at it. It creates more problems than they solve. Our poor live better than most other people in the world. They live better without living wages too. This stuff does not work. It has nothing to do with "feelings" good or bad for anyone.

As regards the minimum wage been through the min wage debate before here. It mainly affects teenagers. It's so low hardly anyone pays it anymore. WalMart starts cashiers out at $8 per hour here and kids babysit for that fee too. Meanwhile illegal immigrants work for less than the minimum wage. A living wage is much more than just a minimum ...it is flat out communism. It reduces everyone down to a certain level or common denominator.

I'd rather the Fed stop inflating things because wages don't keeping up with the price increases. There are far better ways to handle declining standard of living than socialism/communism. ( really they end up in the same place).

A living wage is communistic. I'm not interested in creating equal poverty for all by implementing such economic nonsense.

It sucks being the only one here that has seen PCU. I agree that students that do not live on their own should make less than everyone else. Illegal Immigrants should also if they are breaking the law. If they are Illegal then they are breaking the law. I am sorry if I sound like a Marxist Revolutionary as you put it and call everyone that disagrees with you and your Fascist Revolutionary Manifesto. I mean you must actually worship the Market. You always act like it is a religion for you. I do not even feel the need to ask if you want the speration of market and state. I already know your answer. Companies have shown for all of time that they are run by nothing but absolute greedy people that will fuss with the lives of their employees if they feel that they will be able to get another penny. We can not count on these types of people to regulate themselves. They have shown that they will not do so very well at all. They feel that every penny is thiers that the company that they own or operate makes. Like they made it all by themselves without the help of the lower class of people that actually do the work. I know that we can not ever completely get rid of poverty. I know that we should not overregulate things. That has been the main problem. Some of us can not stand back when we see something that is not right and wait for the Almighty Market to swing back and make the correction. You and TJ always bash TR for doing just that. Maybe he overregulated things, but at least he tried to make the playing filed just a little bit more even. Next you will tell me that we should just dig mass graves for the poor to solve the poverty issue. Is Benito a Saint in your Religion of Market and Business? Business being all that there is will not doing any of us any good either. People are too corrupt.

Adept Havelock
10-12-2008, 06:00 PM
It sucks being the only one here that has seen PCU.

A Bridge Too Far! Michael Caine and Gene Hackman in the same movie! I've found my thesis!!!

bango
10-12-2008, 06:19 PM
A Bridge Too Far! Michael Caine and Gene Hackman in the same movie! I've found my thesis!!!

"Gutter is a tool"

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 06:34 PM
It sucks being the only one here that has seen PCU.
What is PCU?

I agree that students that do not live on their own should make less than everyone else.

I don't agree with this. It has nothing to do with my agreeing what they should make. I don't impose any wage minimum or limit on a student. If they can make more go for it. I think the market should determine this. Some do make more than others.

I am sorry if I sound like a Marxist Revolutionary as you put it and call everyone that disagrees with you and your Fascist Revolutionary Manifesto.
You have trouble with cause and effect don't you. I said back 'atcha for calling me "Snotty." Take some responsibility for the effects you create when you rely on name calling. And correctly categorizing ideas into their proper systems is not name calling. It's an academic point.

I mean you must actually worship the Market.
No I don't worship it. I understand it. I feel it's populist. What we know as markets are mercantilist where politically connected businesses use govt connections to bar entry, protect selves from competition or get subsidies. Yes, TR entrenched some big businesses who wound up with larger market shares. It doesn't work as promised all the time. Like Pickens is doing on tv with his wind power message.

You always act like it is a religion for you.
You, you, you, you ....you. I wanna talk about me. Your attention and points is to go after the person. That's a logical fallacy.

I do not even feel the need to ask if you want the speration of market and state. I already know your answer.
So what is it, since your assuming what probably isn't entirely correct.

Companies have shown for all of time that they are run by nothing but absolute greedy people that will fuss with the lives of their employees if they feel that they will be able to get another penny. We can not count on these types of people to regulate themselves.
Who said anything about regulation anyway? I'm talking wage controls to guarantee a standard of living. You didn't answer my question on what a living wage was either.

You are speaking in broad sweeping generalities without any facts to support your case.

They have shown that they will not do so very well at all. They feel that every penny is thiers that the company that they own or operate makes. Like they made it all by themselves without the help of the lower class of people that actually do the work. I know that we can not ever completely get rid of poverty. I know that we should not overregulate things. That has been the main problem. Some of us can not stand back when we see something that is not right and wait for the Almighty Market to swing back and make the correction. You and TJ always bash TR for doing just that. Maybe he overregulated things, but at least he tried to make the playing filed just a little bit more even. Next you will tell me that we should just dig mass graves for the poor to solve the poverty issue. Is Benito a Saint in your Religion of Market and Business? Business being all that there is will not doing any of us any good either. People are too corrupt.
I'm not even going to respond to such class warfare rhetoric and nonsense.

Explain to me how a living wage is not flat out communism. Isn't that what you were refuting?
Oh, nevermind, you can't do it.

bango
10-12-2008, 06:40 PM
What is PCU?



I don't agree with this. It has nothing to do with my agreeing what they should make. I don't impose any wage minimum or limit on a student. If they can make more go for it. I think the market should determine this. Some do make more than others.


You have trouble with cause and effect don't you. I said back 'atcha for calling me "Snotty." Take some responsibility for the effects you create when you rely on name calling. And correctly categorizing ideas into their proper systems is not name calling. It's an academic point.


No I don't worship it. I understand it. I feel it's populist. What we know as markets are mercantilist where politically connected businesses use govt connections to bar entry, protect selves from competition or get subsidies. Yes, TR entrenched some big businesses who wound up with larger market shares. It doesn't work as promised all the time. Like Pickens is doing on tv with his wind power message.


You, you, you, you ....you. I wanna talk about me. Your attention and points is to go after the person. That's a logical fallacy.


So what is it, since your assuming what probably isn't entirely correct.


Who said anything about regulation anyway? I'm talking wage controls to guarantee a standard of living. You didn't answer my question on what a living wage was either.

You are speaking in broad sweeping generalities without any facts to support your case.


I'm not even going to respond to such class warfare rhetoric and nonsense.

Explain to me how a living wage is not flat out communism. Isn't that what you were refuting?
Oh, nevermind, you can't do it.

You are correct. As always. Fuck the less fortunate.

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 06:50 PM
You are correct. As always. **** the less fortunate.
I'll repeat my quesiton. What does PCU mean?

I didn't say anything about ****'ing the less fortunate. Nice dub in there. I said they live better than others like 3rd world countries where I have been. They have it darn good as it is currently. So no need to reduce others who improve themselves and work harder.

I envision prosperity for all.

My you are angry and testy tonight.

Logical
10-12-2008, 07:02 PM
It sucks being the only one here that has seen PCU. I agree that students that do not live on their own should make less than everyone else. Illegal Immigrants should also if they are breaking the law. If they are Illegal then they are breaking the law. I am sorry if I sound like a Marxist Revolutionary as you put it and call everyone that disagrees with you and your Fascist Revolutionary Manifesto. I mean you must actually worship the Market. You always act like it is a religion for you. I do not even feel the need to ask if you want the speration of market and state. I already know your answer. Companies have shown for all of time that they are run by nothing but absolute greedy people that will fuss with the lives of their employees if they feel that they will be able to get another penny. We can not count on these types of people to regulate themselves. They have shown that they will not do so very well at all. They feel that every penny is thiers that the company that they own or operate makes. Like they made it all by themselves without the help of the lower class of people that actually do the work. I know that we can not ever completely get rid of poverty. I know that we should not overregulate things. That has been the main problem. Some of us can not stand back when we see something that is not right and wait for the Almighty Market to swing back and make the correction. You and TJ always bash TR for doing just that. Maybe he overregulated things, but at least he tried to make the playing filed just a little bit more even. Next you will tell me that we should just dig mass graves for the poor to solve the poverty issue. Is Benito a Saint in your Religion of Market and Business? Business being all that there is will not doing any of us any good either. People are too corrupt.I must say I have wanted to write many if not all the same things to BEP but she is just so tiresome it is not worth the effort. My applause to you for taking the time.:clap::clap::clap:

bango
10-12-2008, 07:07 PM
I'll repeat my quesiton. What does PCU mean?

I didn't say anything about ****'ing the less fortunate. Nice dub in there. I said they live better than others like 3rd world countries where I have been. They have it darn good as it is currently. So no need to reduce others who improve themselves and work harder.

I envision prosperity for all.

My you are angry and testy tonight.

I get this way when I try to dicuss issues with Warren G. Harding Republicans that do not live in the here and the now. PCU is a movie that came out in 1994. It had David Spade, Jeremy Piven, and others. David Spade played the leader of a fraternity. He was a conservative. Hence "Snotty Pointy Nosed Little Reaganite". One of the three questions to enter the secret and not supposed to be existing frathouse was "Who was America's Greatest President?" Of course the answer was Ronald Reagan. From now on I will try to just ignore you when you go to your one and only play from your playbook and that is throwing out the terms Communist and Socialist. I am starting to doubt that you know exactly what they mean except that is what you have been taught to call those that disagree with you. The list also includes Marxist and others credited with founding or spreading said type of Government.

bango
10-12-2008, 07:09 PM
I must say I have wanted to write many if not all the same things to BEP but she is just so tiresome it is not worth the effort. My applause to you for taking the time.:clap::clap::clap:

Thank You. I have just run out of gas with her too. I will now wait for the evercoming Communits/Socialist/Maxrist tag that will soon be here.

BucEyedPea
10-12-2008, 07:14 PM
Thank You. I have just run out of gas with her too. I will now wait for the evercoming Communits/Socialist/Maxrist tag that will soon be here.

Well you challenged it, no?

And never really refuted it. So of course you're out of gas.

And CRONUS is back on iggy. I have his smiley done but he'll never get it due to his nerve to ask for a favor and then get snarky to someone for doing it. Nice guy! You can hang with him if ya' want.

Oh and Neener, Neener to both of you. LMAO

bango
10-12-2008, 07:20 PM
Well you challenged it, no?

And never really refuted it. So of course you're out of gas.

And CRONUS is back on iggy. I have his smiley done but he'll never get it due to his nerve to ask for a favor and then get snarky to someone for doing it. Nice guy! You can hang with him if ya' want.

Oh and Neener, Neener to both of you. LMAO

Sorry if I run out of gas with someone that argues in circles.

Logical
10-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Well you challenged it, no?

And never really refuted it. So of course you're out of gas.

And CRONUS is back on iggy. I have his smiley done but he'll never get it due to his nerve to ask for a favor and then get snarky to someone for doing it. Nice guy! You can hang with him if ya' want.

Oh and Neener, Neener to both of you. LMAO:deevee:

If you haven't put me on iggy, you can provide the smiley to DaFace. It was my idea but he endorsed it and would have to implement it. Seriously girl you are a little bit too preachy for most of us.

bango
10-12-2008, 07:25 PM
:deevee:

If you haven't put me on iggy, you can provide the smiley to DaFace. It was my idea but he endorsed it and would have to implement it. Seriously girl you are a little bit too preachy for most of us.

I thought that you guys were just kidding. People actually use ignore? How childish can one be?

Logical
10-12-2008, 07:32 PM
I thought that you guys were just kidding. People actually use ignore? How childish can one be?I am pretty sure I have no one on Iggy, but I have thought about using it on Programmer and Shtsprayer. They make the BB a rather childish place and I resort to childish tactics in response to them.

bango
10-12-2008, 07:37 PM
I am pretty sure I have no one on Iggy, but I have thought about using it on Programmer and Shtsprayer. They make the BB a rather childish place and I resort to childish tactics in response to them.

I have heard that people can bring you down to their level when arguing. It is the only way that people who are smarter end up losing to those that are not as smart.

splatbass
10-12-2008, 07:53 PM
I am pretty sure I have no one on Iggy, but I have thought about using it on Programmer and Shtsprayer. They make the BB a rather childish place and I resort to childish tactics in response to them.

They irritate me too, but I have to admit I have fun confusing them with logic and reason, then watching them respond with insults and simplistic slogans. Maybe that is childish too, but everyone needs a hobby....:)