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BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 08:18 AM
Major economic speech today in Toledo Ohio. Obama will lay out his plan in detail to rescue the economy and provide relief to the middle class.
10 mintue video of the speech.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27165502#27165502


Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit.
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.
Extend the length of unemployment benefits.
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners.
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy.
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes.
No tax on unemployment for businesses.
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 08:19 AM
Nevermind

October 13, 2008 9:03 AM
<!-- Kate Barrett
-->On Saturday, advisers to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told the Politico's Mike Allen and Jonathan Martin (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14493.html) that McCain was "considering additional economic measures aimed directly at the middle class that are likely to be rolled out this week...Among the measures being considered are tax cuts – perhaps temporary – for capital gains and dividends, the officials said.

"'The market's the focus,' a McCain adviser said. 'You want to stop the fleeing.'...Officials could not say what the package might include because more than 30 ideas have been put in front of McCain during the current crisis, and they said he has to choose what to unveil and when. 'That's up to McCain,' one official said. Among the ideas that have been considered are a bigger tax deduction for middle class mortgages, and more a more robust loan program for small businesses. But officials said the front-burner ideas all dealt specifically with markets."

"Better late than never," wrote the National Review's Rich Lowry (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmZjZDg0NzZmMWMzYjM3NGVmNGNkNDZjYjcyOTYwMTY=).

On Sunday morning, a close McCain ally, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, confirmed that McCain was considering some new proposals on CBS's Face the Nation (http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/FTN_101208.pdf).

"We're going to talk this afternoon," Graham said, "but I think it goes along the lines that now is the time to lower tax rates for investors--capital gains tax, dividend tax rates--to make sure that we can get the economy jump-started. The worst thing we could do now, Bob, is to increase federal spending and to increase taxes on small business, like Senator Obama would propose, or mandate from the federal government health care requirements on individuals and business with fines if you don't comply. So it will be a very comprehensive approach to jumpstart the economy by allowing capital to be formed easier in America by lowering taxes."

Late Sunday, McCain decided no new economic proposals would be forthcoming after all.

"The signs of internal confusion came as the campaign was under pressure from state party leaders to sharpen his message on the economy and at least blunt the advantage that Democrats traditionally have on the issue in hard times," reported Jackie Calmes of the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/us/politics/13plan.html?_r=1&bl=&ei=5087&en=1694b9dd225b8c71&ex=1224043200&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin).

Meanwhile, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has decided he will give a speech today in Toledo, Ohio, in which he will, according to his campaign, lay out an "economic rescue plan for the middle class."

BucEyedPea
10-13-2008, 09:05 AM
Major economic speech today in Toledo Ohio. Obama will lay out his plan in detail to rescue the economy and provide relief to the middle class.

Plan? Like one of those 5 Year Plan deals? LOL!
No single man nor govt can rescue an economy....they just need to get out of the way and repeal things in the way. That doesn't require any plan.

mikey23545
10-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Or "How to Buy Votes with Someone Else's Money"....

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Thank Barack Hussein! Savior of the Middle Class?

Did he also lay out his attack plan on the "Upper Class" or are they the same thing?

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:12 AM
waste of time.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:15 AM
waste of time.

Why?

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 09:17 AM
Great, Obama will promise the moon ( his plan ) and not be able to deliver because of the economy and the deficit.

But the Obots will eat it up ..........

triple
10-13-2008, 09:18 AM
I'd like for him to come up with something that doesn't involve eviscerating employers, who are the ones who provide jobs in the first place.

triple
10-13-2008, 09:18 AM
Great, Obama will promise the moon ( his plan ) and not be able to deliver because of the economy and the deficit.

But the Obots will eat it up ..........

apparently, you didn't hear. We are the ones that we've been waiting for.

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:19 AM
Why?Because I don't believe politicians. I don't believe Obama's plan will do anything for the middle class.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 09:29 AM
Or "How to Buy Votes with Someone Else's Money"....
You mean like buy every bad home mortgage in America at full price so the banks and wall street are rewarded for their risky behaviour? but oh wellll he's keeping bad mortgage owners in theit housed with our money. He's a real maverick.

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:32 AM
You mean like buy every bad home mortgage in America at full price so the banks and wall street are rewarded for their risky behaviour? but oh wellll he's keeping bad mortgage owners in theit housed with our money. He's a real maverick. Both senators voted for that POS bail out. I love the fact that the responsible citizens continue to be screwed over while the irresponsible get free rides.

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:34 AM
You mean like buy every bad home mortgage in America at full price so the banks and wall street are rewarded for their risky behaviour? but oh wellll he's keeping bad mortgage owners in theit housed with our money. He's a real maverick.

Only the banks and Wall Street were engaged in risky behavior? I wasn't aware that the people who signed sub-prime loans were forced to do so.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 09:34 AM
Both senators voted for that POS bail out. I love the fact that the responsible citizens continue to be screwed over while the irresponsible get free rides.
I'm talking about McCains plan to bail out homeowners announces at the last debate.

Obama wants to keep people in their homes without rewarding the Wall street/Banks for their risky behaviour. Big difference.

Why should we reward their behaviour that got us into this mess in the first place?

triple
10-13-2008, 09:37 AM
Only the banks and Wall Street were engaged in risky behavior? I wasn't aware that the people who signed sub-prime loans were forced to do so.

obama said the subprime loans were ok with him like a year ago. clearly he is a visionary on the economy.

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:38 AM
I'm talking about McCains plan to bail out homeowners announces at the last debate.

Obama wants to keep people in their homes without rewarding the Wall street/Banks for their risky behaviour. Big difference.

Why should we reward their behaviour that got us into this mess in the first place?don't buy a house you can't afford.

|Zach|
10-13-2008, 09:41 AM
obama said the subprime loans were ok with him like a year ago. clearly he is a visionary on the economy.

Link?

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:43 AM
Link?

"Subprime lending started off as a good idea helping Americans buy homes who couldn't previously afford them ," Obama said. "But as certain lenders and brokers began to see how much money could be made, they began to lower their standards. Some appraisers began inflating their estimates to get the deals done. Some borrowers started claiming income they didn't have just to qualify for the loans and some were engaging in irresponsible speculation. But many borrowers were tricked into glossing over the fine print."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/08/fact-check-did-obama-say-subprime-loans-a-good-idea/

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:46 AM
Best way to look at it for couples, would you be able to maintain your payments if one of you lost your job? If the answer is no and you have no backup income (at least 6 months) then you shouldn't get the mortgage.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:47 AM
Because I don't believe politicians. I don't believe Obama's plan will do anything for the middle class.

Fair enough Guru.

But do you think McCain's will?

StcChief
10-13-2008, 09:47 AM
Only the banks and Wall Street were engaged in risky behavior? I wasn't aware that the people who signed sub-prime loans were forced to do so.and those preditory lenders with "loose" credit / income requirements should have their bonuses retracted. Up and down that chain money should be returned and put in that pay-back fund.
Tax payers should NOT be on the hook for this one.

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 09:48 AM
Seems like bailouts are starting around the world.

UK bails out banks 63 billion
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_britain_bank_bailout

European governments offer 2 trillion
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_britain_bank_bailout

Japanese invest 9 billion in Morgan Stanley
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_bi_ge/morgan_stanley_mitsubishi;_ylt=AnrhT8QiLTCCL2HNlKjTOe9v24cA

Dow jumps up 500 points
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street;_ylt=AiY2.t6SA0Yy2kNL6syShbZv24cA

Wonder how much Obama had to do with this ?

He is of all things ........

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:49 AM
and those preditory lenders with "loose" credit / income requirements should have their bonuses retracted. Up and down that chain money should be returned and put in that pay-back fund.
Tax payers should NOT be on the hook for this one.

I don't disagree. I just take issue with the notion that this is a one-sided issue, as Barack Hussein makes it out to be.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 09:51 AM
don't buy a house you can't afford.
Too simple for most to understand but I like that idea. :rolleyes:

I also oppose bailing out those who made that choice.

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:51 AM
Fair enough Guru.

But do you think McCain's will?

If nothing changes I will be perfectly happy on my front. We are doing better the last 8 years than we ever have before.

In answer to your question, no, McCain's won't be better but it won't be worse for middle income. Obama's will backfire because the rich won't be stuck with the bill. They will pass it down.

BucEyedPea
10-13-2008, 09:52 AM
Only the banks and Wall Street were engaged in risky behavior? I wasn't aware that the people who signed sub-prime loans were forced to do so.

Don't forget the politicians. They were the initiators and were the worst of all of them since their policies created the moral hazard that led to banks, WS and sub-prime borrowers doing what they did.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:52 AM
Here is part of his new plan. So far I like these new ideas

That’s why I’m proposing to give our businesses a new American jobs tax credit for each new employee they hire here in the United States over the next two years.

We will also save one million jobs by creating a Jobs and Growth Fund that will provide money to states and local communities so that they can move forward with projects to rebuild and repair our roads, our bridges, and our schools. A lot of these projects and these jobs are at risk right now because of budget shortfalls, but this fund will make sure they continue.

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:53 AM
Too simple for most to understand but I like that idea. :rolleyes:

I also oppose bailing out those who made that choice.

My brother in law made that choice and paid dearly for it. I felt for him but we also were the ones pleading with him to not do it.

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:54 AM
Here is part of his new plan. So far I like these new ideas

How's he going to pay for that?

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:55 AM
Here is part of his new plan. So far I like these new ideasWill the tax credit offset the tax increase on the small and middle sized business? If not, it won't make a difference.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:55 AM
How's he going to pay for that?

I don't know I am just reading the excerpts that have been released...

Here is another excerpt:

Since so many Americans will be struggling to pay the bills over the next year, I propose that we allow every family to withdraw up to 15% from their IRA or 401(k) up to a maximum of $10,000 without any fine or penalty throughout 2009. This will help families get through this crisis without being forced to make painful choices like selling their homes or not sending their kids to college.

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:56 AM
I don't know I am just reading the excerpts that have been released...

Here is another excerpt:

So, you don't know how he's going to pay for it, but you like it?

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't know I am just reading the excerpts that have been released...

Here is another excerpt: reduce your retirement for that new TV you want to buy. Brilliant.:doh!:

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 09:57 AM
Here is part of his new plan. So far I like these new ideas
You create American jobs we will give you a tax credit. So simple why hasn't it been tryed before?

We have to take care of our bridges, roads and schools. Why not pay someone to do the work? They turn around and spend that money. The project buys concrete, labors, building supplies, trucking jobs etc. They in turn spend that money in the economy.

Let people tap their 401K without the government taking out their usual penalty.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:58 AM
So, you don't know how he's going to pay for it, but you like it?

Just on the surface yes.

Doesn't tax credits just reduce your overall tax bill?

Guru
10-13-2008, 09:58 AM
You create American jobs we will give you a tax credit. So simple why hasn't it been tryed before?

We have to take care of our bridges, roads and schools. Why not pay someone to do the work? They turn around and spend that money. The project buys concrete, labors, building supplies, trucking jobs etc. They in turn spend that money in the economy. I bet that tax credit isn't as good as what they save by outsourcing.

Donger
10-13-2008, 09:58 AM
You create American jobs we will give you a tax credit. So simple why hasn't it been tryed before?

We have to take care of our bridges, roads and schools. Why not pay someone to do the work? They turn around and spend that money. The project buys concrete, labors, building supplies, trucking jobs etc. They in turn spend that money in the economy.

Let people tap their 401K without the government taking out their usual penalty.

You are unfamiliar with FDR, I take it?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 09:59 AM
reduce your retirement for that new TV you want to buy. Brilliant.:doh!:

:rolleyes:

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 10:00 AM
You are unfamiliar with FDR, I take it?
Dude, we are not far from that situation and it worked back then. It will work now. Better to have the unemployed working and being productive than drawing welfare, unemployment and food stamps and we get nothing from them.

You think just letting them sit at home and draw welfare is a good idea?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 10:00 AM
Another one

For those Americans in danger of losing their homes, today I’m also proposing a three-month moratorium on foreclosures. If you are a bank or lender that is getting money from the rescue plan that passed Congress, and your customers are making a good-faith effort to make their mortgage payments and re-negotiate their mortgages, you will not be able to foreclose on their home for three months. We need to give people the breathing room they need to get back on their feet.

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:00 AM
Just on the surface yes.

Doesn't tax credits just reduce your overall tax bill? For most of Americans it is only a tax rebate at the end of the year. How about this, don't make them pay it in the first place.

Donger
10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
Dude, we are not far from that situation and it worked back then. It will work now. Better to have the unemployed working and being productive than drawing welfare, unemployment and food stamps and we get nothing from them.

You think just letting them sit at home and draw welfare is a good idea?

We aren't far from 24% unemployment?

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
:rolleyes: You don't think people will do this? Seriously?

I am not touching our retirement benefits. Do you realize by pulling benefits now you are only serving to hurt yourself worse later?

Donger
10-13-2008, 10:02 AM
Another one

Yeah! Free houses!

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 10:03 AM
For most of Americans it is only a tax rebate at the end of the year. How about this, don't make them pay it in the first place.

Tax rebates are good aren't they? I know I like getting a tax rebate and yes I would like to never pay ANY taxes but this isn't fantasy land

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:03 AM
Another one They already get more than 3 months.

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Tax rebates are good aren't they? I know I like getting a tax rebate and yes I would like to never pay ANY taxes but this isn't fantasy land

A financial planner will increase your monthly take home right now and eliminate the need for that rebate at the end of the year. Do you like the Government earning interest on YOUR money?

And I never said pay no taxes.

triple
10-13-2008, 10:05 AM
it's funny when people with no clue about economics try to defend an economic plan.

"yeah! he's gonna create american jobs! he's gonna look out for families! he's on the side of working people! your plan can't beat that!"

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 10:05 AM
You don't think people will do this? Seriously?

I am not touching our retirement benefits. Do you realize by pulling benefits now you are only serving to hurt yourself worse later?

I am sure some will but who cares it is their money they should be able to do want they want with it don't you think?

triple
10-13-2008, 10:05 AM
A financial planner will increase your monthly take home right now and eliminate the need for that rebate at the end of the year. Do you like the Government earning interest on YOUR money?

And I never said pay no taxes.

But he's going to fight for the middle class!

Donger
10-13-2008, 10:09 AM
it's funny when people with no clue about economics try to defend an economic plan.

"yeah! he's gonna create american jobs! he's gonna look out for families! he's on the side of working people! your plan can't beat that!"

This is where the "I'm asking you to believe" slogan comes to fruition.

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:10 AM
I am sure some will but who cares it is their money they should be able to do want they want with it don't you think?

J.G. Wentworth

Hey, if they want to blow their retirement, fine. I am sure the government will bail them out too and make the responsible pay for that as well.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 10:10 AM
This is where the "I'm asking you to believe" slogan comes to fruition.

:LOL:

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:11 AM
But he's going to fight for the middle class! Yep, he IS fighting for their VOTE.

Donger
10-13-2008, 10:13 AM
J.G. Wentworth

Hey, if they want to blow their retirement, fine. I am sure the government will bail them out too and make the responsible pay for that as well.

I wonder why Barack Hussein doesn't propose early withdrawal with no penalty from Social Security, too? Why just IRAs/401k?

StcChief
10-13-2008, 10:15 AM
Yep, he IS fighting for their VOTE.that's all he's been doing all along.... blowing alot of smoke up people's A$$.

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:18 AM
I wonder why Barack Hussein doesn't propose early withdrawal with no penalty from Social Security, too? Why just IRAs/401k? That's the governments money.

RINGLEADER
10-13-2008, 10:21 AM
As long as he raises taxes on "rich" people and business whatever elaborate tax credits he proposes (which will also probably include the higher welfare programs that Pelosi seems intent on passing) will be absorbed by higher costs on goods and services. Unless you think "rich" people will keep buying the same things they would have when they had more money or businesses won't raise prices on their goods and services to make up for the tax increases.

Remember, this is all coming from the guy who says that taxes need to be higher because it's the "fair" thing to do, regardless of whether or not it brings in less money to the treasury.

RINGLEADER
10-13-2008, 10:23 AM
I am sure some will but who cares it is their money they should be able to do want they want with it don't you think?

Well this will certainly help ease the pain of retirees discovering that they have no social security benefits in 10-15 years.

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 10:29 AM
Tax rebates are good aren't they? I know I like getting a tax rebate and yes I would like to never pay ANY taxes but this isn't fantasy land


What good is a tax rebate when the yearly cost of living continues to rise more that rebate check , or you lose your job because your employer had to cut jobs due to less revenue from rising taxes on business and corporates and sales.

If America is not financially secure in the corporate and business world, housing and banking, the citizens suffer and no 1 time rebate check is going to offset this.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 10:35 AM
it's funny when people with no clue about economics try to defend an economic plan.


I agree and that is why I will offer no more comments in this thread.

But the majority of Americans, heck leaders of this nation don't even understand economics, but on the surface his ideas seem ok.

It is funny though I didn't see you bitch about anyone defending McCain's plan but I am sure you did right?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:43 AM
Ok I lied.

Obama is speaking on his plan right now in Ohio

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:46 AM
Eliminate capital gains tax on small businesses

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:47 AM
I agree and that is why I will offer no more comments in this thread.

But the majority of Americans, heck leaders of this nation don't even understand economics, but on the surface his ideas seem ok.

It is funny though I didn't see you bitch about anyone defending McCain's plan but I am sure you did right?
BS. Just because we don't have an economic degree doesn't mean we are so clueless that we don't understand that rewarding those who got us into this mess in the first place is not a good idea.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:47 AM
Eliminate capital gains tax on small businesses
Thats down right Republican.ROFL

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:48 AM
No tax on unemployment for businesses

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:49 AM
BS. Just because we don't have an economic degree doesn't mean we are so clueless that we don't understand that rewarding those who got us into this mess in the first place is not a good idea. Actually, I would support his statement as a majority of Americans have no idea about economics. That still leaves 49% that know what they are doing. Still way to low.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Obama is fiery today...

He is acting a little pissed off today which is good IMHO

triple
10-13-2008, 11:50 AM
I agree and that is why I will offer no more comments in this thread.

But the majority of Americans, heck leaders of this nation don't even understand economics, but on the surface his ideas seem ok.

It is funny though I didn't see you bitch about anyone defending McCain's plan but I am sure you did right?

well, you understand that businesses create jobs, and they have to meet earnings no matter what, so if the government makes their taxes skyrocket the fat is going to be trimmed. that is common sense. it doesn't matter though, they'll just blame it on Bush.

i didn't say anything about McCain's plan that i can remember.

Donger
10-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Obama is fiery today...

He is acting a little pissed off today which is good IMHO

The Dow's up. Of course he's pissed.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:52 AM
10% tax rebate/credit on your mortgage interest payments.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:52 AM
The Dow's up. Of course he's pissed.


Feel the pain strategy

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Talking about his small business lending plan with what they did after 9/11

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:54 AM
Low rate emergency loans to small business's.

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:55 AM
Low rate emergency loans to small business's.Give them a loan so they can pay their taxes. Nice.:doh!:

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:55 AM
Obama is fiery today...

He is acting a little pissed off today which is good IMHO
Man the dude is "on" today. He's bringing the substance and the fiery speech.:clap:

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:56 AM
Give them a loan so they can pay their taxes. Nice.:doh!:
So that they can survive, provide jobs to us. Since small business's provide 3 out of 5 jobs in America. Obviously thats a bad idea huh?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:57 AM
Talking about how everyone including normal people lived beyond their means

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:57 AM
Give them a loan so they can pay their taxes. Nice.:doh!:

That is exactly what they did after 9/11

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:58 AM
That is exactly what they did after 9/11I disagreed with it then too.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:58 AM
talking about accountability and responsibility with everyone and people need to be accountable and stop living beyond their means

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:58 AM
I disagreed with it then too.

Why?

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 11:59 AM
Obama is calling for a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures and a two-year tax break for businesses that create jobs as part of a plan to heal the nation's ailing economy.

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:59 AM
talking about accountability and responsibility with everyone and people need to be accountable and stop living beyond their meansWow, a statement I can actually agree with. Nothing he can do to change that though. Oh, yeah, he can raise taxes.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 12:00 PM
He also called for a $3,000 tax credit for each additional full-time job a business creates. The tax break would end after 2010.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 12:00 PM
Obama also is proposing letting people withdraw up to $10,000 from their retirement accounts without any penalty this year and next.

Guru
10-13-2008, 12:01 PM
Obama is calling for a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures and a two-year tax break for businesses that create jobs as part of a plan to heal the nation's ailing economy.they get that already. Also, will the tax break offset the the savings earned on shipping jobs overseas?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:01 PM
Damn Obama is fucking on fire...holy shit who invaded his body

Maybe he listened to O'Reilly about getting mad

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:01 PM
Man the dude is "on" today. He's bringing the substance and the fiery speech.:clap:

Obama is our Savior and God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just hope those fellas at ACORN can help me register my pet mouse so we can both vote...............

Guru
10-13-2008, 12:02 PM
Obama also is proposing letting people withdraw up to $10,000 from their retirement accounts without any penalty this year and next.Yep, mortgage your retirement for temporary relief right now. You know people will use that option for the wrong reasons.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 12:04 PM
Obama is our Savior and God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just hope those fellas at ACORN can help me register my pet mouse so we can both vote...............
well your entitled to your opinion and he at least is propsong something other than tax cuts for the rich and business's like your man McCain. Which is not surprising since the fundamentals of this economy are strong, correct?

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Obama is our Savior and God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just hope those fellas at ACORN can help me register my pet mouse so we can both vote...............

Have you seen the picture released today of McCain at a Acorn event in 2006?

He was for them before he was against them

http://images.politico.com/global/mccainacorn.jpg

The beleaguered Democratic-leaning community group Acorn sends over this photograph: John McCain, in March of 2006, sitting beside Florida Rep. Kendrick Meek at an event Acorn sponsored in Florida.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:08 PM
well your entitled to your opinion and he at least is propsong something other than tax cuts for the rich and business's like your man McCain. Which is not surprising since the fundamentals of this economy are strong, correct?

You don't get it.

I couldn't care less for McCain. He's a fkn 'moran'. I just know that I like Obama a lot less, given that Socialism doesn't really work for me.

triple
10-13-2008, 12:10 PM
10% tax rebate/credit on your mortgage interest payments.

hey great. you people that are working hard and paying your bills, you'd better keep paying or we'll foreclose on you. the hell with you. but all these people who shouldn't have bought a house in the first place, we have to rescue them. owning a house is a civil right.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:12 PM
hey great. you people that are working hard and paying your bills, you'd better keep paying or we'll foreclose on you. the hell with you. but all these people who shouldn't have bought a house in the first place, we have to rescue them. owning a house is a civil right.

No that is McCain's plan that McCain is talking about now. $300 billion dollars to buy up ALL bad mortgages. He just said this at his rally on TV

triple
10-13-2008, 12:14 PM
No that is McCain's plan that McCain is talking about now. $300 billion dollars to buy up ALL bad mortgages. He just said this at his rally on TV

He's talking about government buying them from the holders. You still have to pay.

He's not talking about giving people money toward the principle, paying their interest, or buying down points.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:14 PM
Have you seen the picture released today of McCain at a Acorn event in 2006?

He was for them before he was against them

http://images.politico.com/global/mccainacorn.jpg

The beleaguered Democratic-leaning community group Acorn sends over this photograph: John McCain, in March of 2006, sitting beside Florida Rep. Kendrick Meek at an event Acorn sponsored in Florida.

My guess is that there are a cabillion politicians who have had their picture taken at an ACORN event. That said, how many ACORN volunteers are out there registering "voters" specifically so they can vote Republican? Let's get real here.

from the NY Post

"ACORN's political wing has endorsed Barack Obama for president, but Ben LaBolt, a spokesman for the Obama campaign in Ohio, said ACORN has no role in its get-out-the-vote drive. During the primary season, however, the Obama camp paid another group, Citizen Service Inc., $832,598 for various political services, according to Federal Elections Commission filings. That group and ACORN share the same board of directors."

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:16 PM
He's talking about government buying them from the holders. You still have to pay.

He's not talking about giving people money toward the principle, paying their interest, or buying down points.

Why should the government spend an extra $300 billion to do that?

triple
10-13-2008, 12:17 PM
Why should the government spend an extra $300 billion to do that?

Why should the government do what Obama wants them to do?

Why should they have been in the business of guaranteeing mortgages in the first place?

At least buying the mortgages themselves would return some portion of the money invested eventually, instead of doing the equivalent of giving people money to burn to keep warm

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:18 PM
My guess is that there are a cabillion politicians who have had their picture taken at an ACORN event. That said, how many ACORN volunteers are out there registering "voters" specifically so they can vote Republican? Let's get real here.


Let's get real ACORN goes into the hoods and poor sections of towns to register people. I would say that 99% of them are Dems or vote Dems.

I don't know too many poor people that are Republicans do you?

triple
10-13-2008, 12:20 PM
Let's get real ACORN goes into the hoods and poor sections of towns to register people. I would say that 99% of them are Dems or vote Dems.

I don't know too many poor people that are Republicans do you?

Most of ACORN's voters vote dem because they don't really exist.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:20 PM
Why should the government do what Obama wants them to do?

Why should they have been in the business of guaranteeing mortgages in the first place?

At least buying the mortgages themselves would return some portion of the money invested eventually, instead of doing the equivalent of giving people money to burn to keep warm

You do realize that is already part of the $700 billion dollar bailout plan don't you? So why do we need to spend an extra $300 billion dollars?

Even Republicans are saying this is a bad idea and all it benefits is the banks that screwed up in the first place

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:20 PM
Most of ACORN's voters vote dem because they don't really exist.

Tony Romo and TO exist...:)

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:21 PM
Let's get real ACORN goes into the hoods and poor sections of towns to register people. I would say that 99% of them are Dems or vote Dems.

I don't know too many poor people that are Republicans do you?

I know lots of Average Americans (not wealthy) that are Republicans. The Democrats do have a strong hold on the extreme poor in the US. They've kept them "stupid" for years with their liberal "we're the one's caring for you" rhetoric.

triple
10-13-2008, 12:22 PM
You do realize that is already part of the $700 billion dollar bailout plan don't you? So why do we need to spend an extra $300 billion dollars?

Even Republicans are saying this is a bad idea and all it benefits is the banks that screwed up in the first place

I was never favoring McCain's plan. All I said was it was a hell of a lot better than the other things being proposed, like what Biden was saying about buying points or giving people money toward the principle.

Nobody can seem to tell me why the government should be rescuing idiots who buy things they can't afford.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:28 PM
I know lots of Average Americans (not wealthy) that are Republicans. The Democrats do have a strong hold on the extreme poor in the US. They've kept them "stupid" for years with their liberal "we're the one's caring for you" rhetoric.

ChiTown let me be clear I am not supporting ACORN tactics but they do into bad places to get the extreme poor who are mostly black to vote.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 12:29 PM
Nobody can seem to tell me why the government should be rescuing idiots who buy things they can't afford.

They shouldn't but this is a special crisis so they have to try things to help rescue the economy

triple
10-13-2008, 12:31 PM
They shouldn't but this is a special crisis so they have to try things to help rescue the economy

it's funny how governments tend to always use a "special crisis" to expand their power and contract yours.

I'm just glad they were able to prevent that precipitous stock market decline. that sure would have sucked.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:32 PM
ChiTown let me be clear I am not supporting ACORN tactics but they do into bad places to get the extreme poor who are mostly black to vote.

Understood.

Guru
10-13-2008, 12:36 PM
ChiTown let me be clear I am not supporting ACORN tactics but they do into bad places to get the extreme poor who are mostly black to vote.Nobody has a problem with what ACORN was originally meant to do. The problem is the multiple registering and the fake registering. As long as they are not trying to get these ACTUAL voters to vote the way they want them to then fine. I am no fan of just leading voters to the booth if they have no idea what they are voting for though.

I certainly want more people to vote but they need to have a full understaning of all sides of the issue and make an informed decision. If they are just going in to mark a box then they shouldn't be voting.

triple
10-13-2008, 12:37 PM
ACORN's fraud is more widespread this year than ever before. in Indianapolis, something like 105% of the population is registered. There is massive, massive registration fraud going on.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 12:38 PM
ACORN's fraud is more widespread this year than ever before. in Indianapolis, something like 105% of the population is registered. There is massive, massive registration fraud going on.

Not if you take into account that most households have pets....................

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 12:46 PM
First post updated with the proposals


Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit.
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners.
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy.
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes.
No tax on unemployment for businesses.
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools.
Extend the length of unemployment benefits.

triple
10-13-2008, 12:50 PM
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.

how? that's about 25% more than pay taxes to begin with

Guru
10-13-2008, 01:02 PM
First post updated with the proposals
Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business. Sounds good.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit. Is it a better credit than the option to ship overseas?
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs. Sounds good.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas. Will this outweigh the above mentioned credit?
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later. 95% huh. Nearly half of that don't pay taxes already. Giving them more money?
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal. Big mistake. Will be abused and create more problems later.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners. What about those NOT paying interest because of foreclosure? Will they be rewarded for getting in over their heads?
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy. Fine
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes. That already happens.
No tax on unemployment for businesses. Fine
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive. More money that will need to be paid back that may not get paid back. Plus, loopholes will give it to businesses that won't need it.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools. All fine, except schools can barely keep enough teachers to match the per head count required for students as it is now. What will building a school without teachers accomplish?
Extend the length of unemployment benefits. Not necessary. 6 months is enough.

see bolded

Still doesn't answer how this will be paid for either.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 01:41 PM
see bolded

Still doesn't answer how this will be paid for either.
Do politicans ever say how they are going to pay for something? Has any candidate you ever supported said how they specifically would raise the money?

At least Barack says he will save $10 billion a month by leaving Iraq. And tax the top 5% of earners in America. Eliminate tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.

Silock
10-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Do politicans ever say how they are going to pay for something? Has any candidate you ever supported said how they specifically would raise the money?

At least Barack says he will save $10 billion a month by leaving Iraq. And tax the top 5% of earners in America. Eliminate tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.

Uh, there's two ways. Cut spending or raise taxes. Or both.

Taxing the top 5% will work splendidly until they take their ball and go home.

Guru
10-13-2008, 01:48 PM
Do politicans ever say how they are going to pay for something? Has any candidate you ever supported said how they specifically would raise the money?

At least Barack says he will save $10 billion a month by leaving Iraq. And tax the top 5% of earners in America. Eliminate tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.I was never a fan of going into Iraq but doing a complete pull out is a mistake now. Even over 16 months. Iraq is the new Vietnam. Taxing the top 5% will backfire IMO. I am all for eliminating the tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, it should have never been created in the first place. But I still question whether it would be economically feasible for employers to accept the tax break or take the penalty of no break for the employment savings. Those are numbers I don't know though so it is only conjecture.

To your original question, hence why I don't trust politicians or anything they say.

Silock
10-13-2008, 01:48 PM
They shouldn't but this is a special crisis so they have to try things to help rescue the economy

Sorry, but this will work itself out.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 01:49 PM
I like alot of that plan.

Silock
10-13-2008, 01:51 PM
I like alot of that plan.

I think most of it is a great idea, in theory. Again, though, how are you going to pay for it?

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 01:56 PM
I think most of it is a great idea, in theory. Again, though, how are you going to pay for it?It sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. Add to it, Obama's plan to slash frivalous government spending and getting out of the war in Iraq and that in itself will be a solution to part of the problem.

It basically sounds like Government will have to tighten their belt strings on certain things Bankers and lenders will have to adjust their absurd profit margins, and big corporations will have to bring jobs back to the USA, in order to BENEFIT, thus creating more jobs, meaning more MONEY in the system.

Donger
10-13-2008, 01:56 PM
Again, though, how are you going to pay for it?

"Don't bother me with your chicken-shit details."

Guru
10-13-2008, 01:58 PM
It sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. Add to it, Obama's plan to slash frivalous government spending and getting out of the war in Iraq and that in itself will be a solution to part of the problem.
A dem? Slash frivolous government spending? I will believe it when I see it.

triple
10-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Saps. Liberals do not reduce taxes. They do not cut taxes on anyone. They simply rearrange tax burdens so you pay through someone else or don't realize you are paying at all.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:03 PM
A dem? Slash frivolous government spending? I will believe it when I see it.

Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen what his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country?

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:04 PM
It sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. Add to it, Obama's plan to slash frivalous government spending and getting out of the war in Iraq and that in itself will be a solution to part of the problem.

It basically sounds like Government will have to tighten their belt strings on certain things Bankers and lenders will have to adjust their absurd profit margins, and big corporations will have to bring jobs back to the USA, in order to BENEFIT, thus creating more jobs, meaning more MONEY in the system.

Bring jobs back to the US - Great idea.
Make banks and lenders behave responsibly - Great idea, although limiting profit margins sets a really dangerous precedent
But doing ALL of this economic stuff along with creating jobs, making healthcare affordable, along with ALL the other campaign promises while funding a trillion dollar bailout -- SHOW US THE MONEY, LEBOWSKI

Donger
10-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen want his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country?

How does Barack Hussein define frivolous spending?

triple
10-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen want his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country?

I know what liberals think is frivolous in terms of government spending. Nothing, except for the notable exception of defense spending, and by the way we need to add a gazillion more giveaway programs too.

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen want his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country?

You're telling me a guy that pushed hard for a trillion dollar bailout loaded down with pork is now advocating to cut frivolous spending?

Yeah, that doesn't resonate retarded at all.

Guru
10-13-2008, 02:07 PM
Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen what his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country? Hmm, I voted for Gore and Clinton. But I'm a bush backer now? Dems don't reduce spending.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:07 PM
How does Barack Hussein define frivolous spending? I'm sure like the majority do. Spending money on snail darter research, etc.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:08 PM
Mecca, where is your cartoon?

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:08 PM
Hmm, I voted for Gore and Clinton. But I'm a bush backer now? Dems don't reduce spending.

Neither do Republicans, and that's why we fiscal conservatives are fucking pissed.

triple
10-13-2008, 02:09 PM
I'm sure like the majority do. Spending money on snail darter research, etc.

that's all you've got huh...

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:10 PM
Hmm, I voted for Gore and Clinton. But I'm a bush backer now? Dems don't reduce spending.Again, you all are GENERALIZING before the man even gets a shot. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about your stance. I know what he said, if you choose to ignore, that's on you.

HC_Chief
10-13-2008, 02:10 PM
Neither do Republicans, and that's why we fiscal conservatives are ****ing pissed.

Fiscal conservatives are a minority in the Republican party as evidenced by the candidates.

Ron Paul was my choice, then Romney. Only the latter stood a chance, but his religion (of all things) did him in (IMO).

triple
10-13-2008, 02:11 PM
Again, you all are GENERALIZING before the man even gets a shot. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about your stance. I know what he said, if you choose to ignore, that's on you.

yeah, i know he's not accomplished anything in the senate or run anything in his life, but you can't judge whether he would to do a good job as president until you give him a shot...

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:12 PM
I know what he said, if you choose to ignore, that's on you.

And as we all know, politicians never say things to get elected that they can't actually do.

Donger
10-13-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm sure like the majority do. Spending money on snail darter research, etc.

You don't know?

Guru
10-13-2008, 02:14 PM
Again, you all are GENERALIZING before the man even gets a shot. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about your stance. I know what he said, if you choose to ignore, that's on you.

I don't want to argue with you BRC. I like you too much for that. EDIT - Damnit, I misread your name every time. ROFL Not BRC but BCF. heh

I don't trust Obama. Haven't trusted him from the start. I don't like McCain either. I don't have a horse in this race and it pisses me off. The only "win" I have is an Obama loss. Not likely but it is all I have.

The only other way I have to look at this is maybe an Obama win will force the Reps to get back to conservatism.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:14 PM
that's all you've got huh...I answered his question, but please, by all means, make up shit as you go.

BigChiefFan
10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
I don't want to argue with you BRC. I like you too much for that.

I don't trust Obama. Haven't trusted him from the start. I don't like McCain either. I don't have a horse in this race and it pisses me off. The only "win" I have is an Obama loss. Not likely but it is all I have.

The only other way I have to look at this is maybe an Obama win will force the Reps to get back to conservatism.
Understood. My problem in all of this, is many put ideaology above candidates and it's clear to me Obama is head and shoulders better than McCain. Of course, some want to make it out to be partisan this and partisan that, rather than discuss the real issues at hand. The vague generalizations show this to be true.

BTW, thank you for the kind words. I think you're a pretty cool Joe, too.

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
The only other way I have to look at this is maybe an Obama win will force the Reps to get back to conservatism.

That's what I'm banking on. Plus, I'm not voting for any current Republican that has a 3rd party candidate running against them.

triple
10-13-2008, 02:19 PM
I answered his question, but please, by all means, make up shit as you go.

I can't compete with "stand up for working families" and "hope and change".

Guru
10-13-2008, 02:25 PM
Understood. My problem in all of this, is many put ideaology above candidates and it's clear to me Obama is head and shoulders better than McCain. Of course, some want to make it out to be partisan this and partisan that, rather than discuss the real issues at hand. The vague generalizations show this to be true.

BTW, thank you for the kind words. I think you're a pretty cool Joe, too.

I try not to come off a partisan it is just hard with things the way they are this year. I have said in the past that Obama does come off as the more likable candidate. I really believe that is where McCain's downfall is. An old has been can't compete with it.

The other problem here is that there are a few on here that are completely blinded by their candidate, on both sides, which makes things harder for the posters like me. Outside of politics, I think all the posters on our site are great.

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 02:39 PM
I can't compete with "stand up for working families" and "hope and change".
Wellll you can accuse Obama of Plagerism............of Hoover.

Silock
10-13-2008, 02:43 PM
Wellll you can accuse Obama of Plagerism............of Hoover.

That's not a good sign.

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 03:01 PM
Get off your high horse, Mr. Bushbacker. The repubs do it, the Dems do it, the independents do it. Enough of the partisanship. Let's get to the solutions. He said he would slash frivalous spending and I believe him, it's a common sense approach, that not many are used to seeing in Washington DC these days, but it still doesn't lessen what his point was in CUTTING frivalous govt. spending. Wouldn't you agree, even putting it out there on the table is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION for the country?


1 trillion dollars in new spending and cutting sending ? Both ? What is he cutting to offset this massive amount of spending. If he doesn't cut at least 1 .5 trillion dollars somewhere, he is adding to the inflation and deficit problems we now are faced with.

Somebody show me Obama's plan to cut 1.5 trillion dollars in spending.

WilliamTheIrish
10-13-2008, 03:06 PM
1 trillion dollars in new spending and cutting sending ? Both ? What is he cutting to offset this massive amount of spending. If he doesn't cut at least 1 .5 trillion dollars somewhere, he is adding to the inflation and deficit problems we now are faced with.

Somebody show me Obama's plan to cut 1.5 trillion dollars in spending.

ROY, I could probably search the database and discover you never once cared about spending, or deficits in the last 8 years.

I'm glad as a non partisan, you're concerned now. I also noticed you had little to sy about the possibility of John McCain having the gov't but up 1/3 bill$ in mortgages.

triple
10-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Wellll you can accuse Obama of Plagerism............of Hoover.

actually I was thinking this is going to be Jimmy Carter's second term

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 04:02 PM
ROY, I could probably search the database and discover you never once cared about spending, or deficits in the last 8 years.

I'm glad as a non partisan, you're concerned now. I also noticed you had little to sy about the possibility of John McCain having the gov't but up 1/3 bill$ in mortgages.


I've always been concerned with spending and his mortgage bailout is bunk, I do not agree with it.

You people seem to think that I am thrilled to have McCain as a POTUS candidate,I'm not.

Chief Henry
10-13-2008, 04:07 PM
What is a capital gains tax on small BSN. ?

BigRedChief
10-13-2008, 09:42 PM
actually I was thinking this is going to be Jimmy Carter's second term
Don't forget tax and spend liberal and pals around with terroists.

BOO!
http://www.wwedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/the-boogeyman.jpg

Logical
10-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Major economic speech today in Toledo Ohio. Obama will lay out his plan in detail to rescue the economy and provide relief to the middle class.
10 mintue video of the speech.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27165502#27165502

Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit.
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.
Extend the length of unemployment benefits.
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners.
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy.
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes.
No tax on unemployment for businesses.
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools.Wasn't this the candidate they said had no specific proposals? What happened to that?

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 06:18 AM
Wasn't this the candidate they said had no specific proposals? What happened to that?
And some of these proposals are down right "Republican". I thought he was so far left that he couldn't find his way back to the center?

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 12:22 PM
The following are direct excerpts from John McCain's and Barack Obama's latest economic rescue plans:

McCain Economic Proposals
-- John McCain proposes that withdrawals from tax-preferred accounts -- IRAs And 401(k)s -- should be taxed at the lowest rate -- 10 percent -- in 2008 And 2009. This policy will apply to the first $50,000 withdrawn from these accounts each year and will affect the accounts of nearly nine million Americans over the age of 60, permitting them to devote more of their income to retirement needs.

-- John McCain will not penalize those forced to sell off in today's tough markets. John McCain believes that we should increase the amount of capital losses which can be used in tax years 2008 and 2009 to offset ordinary income from $3,000 to $15,000.

-- John McCain will strengthen incentives to save, invest, and restore the liquidity of markets. John McCain proposes a reduction in the maximum tax rate on long term capital gains to 7.5 percent in 2009 and 2010.

-- John McCain will provide a tax cut for Americans who have lost a job by exempting unemployment benefits from taxation. According to the latest statistics, over 3.6 million Americans are currently receiving unemployment benefits. John McCain recognizes that at a time when families are hurting, and the prospects of future job losses increase -- we should stop taxing unemployment insurance benefits for 2008 and 2009.

Obama Economic Proposals
-- A new American jobs tax credit. Obama is calling for a temporary tax credit for firms that create new jobs in the United States over the next two years.

-- Penalty-free withdrawals from IRAs and 401(k)s in 2008 and 2009. Obama is calling for new legislation to allow families to withdraw 15 percent of their retirement savings - up to a maximum of $10,000 - without facing a tax-penalty this year (including retroactively) and next year.

-- 90-day foreclosure moratorium for homeowners that are acting in good faith. Financial institutions that participate in the Treasury's financial rescue plan should be required to adhere to a homeowners code of conduct, including a 90-day foreclosure moratorium for any homeowners living in their homes that are making good faith efforts pay their mortgages.

-- A lending facility to address the credit crisis for states and localities. Obama is calling on the Federal Reserve and the Treasury to work to establish a facility to lend to state and municipal governments, similar to the steps the Fed recently took to provide liquidity to the commercial paper market.

-- Obama's plan also calls for temporarily eliminating taxes on unemployment insurance benefits; keeping all options on the table to help our automakers weather the financial crisis; having the Fed and Treasury prepare for guaranteeing a broader range of liabilities of the banking system; and instructing Treasury to help unfreeze markets for individual mortgages, student loans, car loans, loans for multi-family dwellings and credit card loans.

The Mad Crapper
04-03-2010, 09:55 AM
Major economic speech today in Toledo Ohio. Obama will lay out his plan in detail to rescue the economy and provide relief to the middle class.
10 mintue video of the speech.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27165502#27165502


Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit.
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.
Extend the length of unemployment benefits.
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners.
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy.
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes.
No tax on unemployment for businesses.
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools.

I love taking trips down memory lane with BRC.

LMAO

He was stupid then, and he's just as stupid now.

Lower Prices and More Foreclosures Will Solve Housing
Thursday, April 01, 2010
Larry Kudlow

With everybody focused on Obamacare, and its new entitlement spending and taxing, the administration has tried to sneak in yet another bailout for housing. Yet again, Team Obama is rewarding reckless behavior, punishing the 90 percent of responsible homeowners who are making good on their mortgages, and setting up a greater moral hazard that will surely lead to an expansion of bailout nation.

I'm talking about an add-on to HAMP, the $75 billion Home Affordable Modification Program, which has been a dismal failure. In fact, the entire foreclosure-prevention effort -- including forgiveness of mortgage-loan principal -- has been a failure.

The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency reports that nearly 60 percent of modified mortgages re-default within a year. And now comes a new brilliant idea that if you live in your main residence, have a mortgage balance of less than $729,750, owe monthly mortgage payments that are not affordable (meaning greater than 31 percent of income) and demonstrate a financial hardship, the government will subsidize you by offering TARP money to banks and other lenders to reduce your outstanding mortgage balance.

Former Bush administration economist Keith Hennessey highlights the outrage that Team Obama would actually subsidize people making up to $186,000 a year who have a mortgage balance of over $700,000. This isn't even a middle-class entitlement. It's an upper-middle-class entitlement. Actually, at $186,000, it's virtually a top-earner entitlement, according to Team Obama's definition of rich people eligible for tax hikes.

I mean, for a measly $14,000 more in income, the White House will jack up your top personal tax rate and your capital-gains tax rate. But now, for just less than $200,000, you get a brand new spiffy forgiveness plan for your mortgage.

It's a complete outrage.

I don't want you to pay for my mistakes. And I don't want to pay for yours. That's an oft-heard Tea Party complaint, and it's a good one. Why should the 90 percent of folks who make good financial decisions on their homes have to pay for the 10 percent who did not?

Or, put it another way, just because a home loan is "underwater" -- meaning its value is lower than today's current market price -- why should a responsible person whine about it and walk away? Why not service this loan for the longer term and wait for prices to improve? That's called personal responsibility.

Bloomberg financial columnist Caroline Baum argues that lower home prices are the key to solving the housing problem. Popular blogger Barry Ritholtz says we need more foreclosures, not fewer, to solve housing. Both are correct.

Even in the foreclosure process, young families can come in and snap up cheap homes. This is a great boon to the new generation.

And take a look at places like California, Florida and Las Vegas, where foreclosure activity has been high and prices have fallen the most. What you see is a sharp pickup in home sales, which is steadily clearing away the price-depressing inventory overhang of unsold homes. In other words, market forces work.

Bouncing from pillar to post, the White House has unsuccessfully tried mortgage modifications, foreclosure abatements and tax credits. None of it has worked. But the price tag so far for these failed government interventions in the housing market is $75 billion and rising.

Applying TARP money to the housing problem -- originally meant for banks -- is an even greater outrage. TARP should be closed down, now that banks have repaid it, and turned back to taxpayers in the form of government debt reduction.

But the Obama White House rejects market forces. It rejects free-market price adjustments. As a result, it is creating a crazy subversion of normal incentives.

Obamacare -- with its unwillingness to put to work true free-market and consumer-choice competition to hold down health costs -- will turn out to be a failure. And so will Team Obama's clumsy and clunky attempts to substitute government subsidies for free-market home pricing. The failed government subsidy for housing is a leading indicator. Imagine, putting more and more middle- and upper-end income earners on the government dole.

As America's nanny state grows larger, its economy will grow weaker.

BigRedChief
04-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Major economic speech today in Toledo Ohio. Obama will lay out his plan in detail to rescue the economy and provide relief to the middle class.
10 mintue video of the speech.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27165502#27165502


Elimination of the captial gains tax on small business.
Every job created in America for Americans that business's create gets a tax credit.
Tax credit for start ups that create American jobs.
Cancel tax breaks for business's that ship jobs overseas.
95% of citizens get a tax cut and those tax cuts become effective immediately and checks should be mailed out now not later.
Extend the length of unemployment benefits.
Withdrawal of up to $10,000 or 15% of their IRA or 401k without a penalty of withdrawal.
Provide 10% tax credit for paying of interest to all homeowners.
Allow bankruptcy judges to lower interest rates on homes in bankruptcy.
3 month freeze on foreclosure of homes.
No tax on unemployment for businesses.
Create an emergency fund for low rate loans to small bussiness's like we did after 9/11 so that they can survive.
Creation of a job fund to build roads, repair bridges and build schools.
So hows he done since that promise to the middle class

The stimulus bill raised that exclusion for caital gains to 75 percent. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/3/eliminate-capital-gains-taxes-for-small-businesses/ Plans in place to totally eliminate.
Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs, http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/
SAA. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/)
In the works. http://blog.taragana.com/business/2010/01/28/obama-vows-to-cut-tax-breaks-of-firms-that-ship-jobs-abroad-25542/
Tax cut for 95 percent? The stimulus made it so. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/barack-obama/tax-cut-95-percent-stimulus-made-it-so/
Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
Not yet
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/)
Obama considering it now. http://www.realtown.com/samantaparks/blog/government-thinking-about-foreclosure-freeze
promise kept http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/economy/
Done. stimulus bill

BigRedChief
04-03-2010, 09:06 PM
So hows he done since that promise to the middle class

The stimulus bill raised that exclusion for caital gains to 75 percent. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/3/eliminate-capital-gains-taxes-for-small-businesses/ Plans in place to totally eliminate.
Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs, http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/
SAA. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/)
In the works. http://blog.taragana.com/business/2010/01/28/obama-vows-to-cut-tax-breaks-of-firms-that-ship-jobs-abroad-25542/
Tax cut for 95 percent? The stimulus made it so. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/barack-obama/tax-cut-95-percent-stimulus-made-it-so/
Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
Not yet
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/)
Obama considering it now. http://www.realtown.com/samantaparks/blog/government-thinking-about-foreclosure-freeze
promise kept http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/economy/
Done. stimulus bill
No comment Mr, Crapper?

BigRedChief
04-05-2010, 06:38 AM
No comment Mr, Crapper?
We are waiting Mr. Crapper.....

patteeu
04-05-2010, 10:41 AM
We are waiting Mr. Crapper.....

I'll comment. Obama seems to have failed in his efforts to fix the economy.

BigRedChief
04-05-2010, 10:45 AM
I'll comment. Obama seems to have failed in his efforts to fix the economy.wellll the jury is still out on this subject.

I was talking to Mr. Crapper pointing out the pre-election promise's that Obama made and that he quoted saying they were an epic fail so I check his statement and come to find out he's already done most it in his first year and looks to be keeping about 90%-95% of what he said he would do. Thats a friggin grand slam in politician %'s.

You might not like what he is doing but he is only doing or trying to do what he promised to do.

BigChiefFan
04-05-2010, 10:50 AM
I think his plan is to put a ball and chain around every Americans ankle.

patteeu
04-05-2010, 10:55 AM
wellll the jury is still out on this subject.

I was talking to Mr. Crapper pointing out the pre-election promise's that Obama made and that he quoted saying they were an epic fail so I check his statement and come to find out he's already done most it in his first year and looks to be keeping about 90%-95% of what he said he would do. Thats a friggin grand slam in politician %'s.

You might not like what he is doing but he is only doing or trying to do what he promised to do.

OK, I'll amend my assessment to "failed so far". AFAIC, the only measure of merit for his "economic rescue plan" that matters is whether or not he rescues the economy.

BigChiefFan
04-05-2010, 10:56 AM
JOBLESS RECOVERY...enough said.

BigRedChief
04-05-2010, 11:02 AM
OK, I'll amend my assessment to "failed so far". AFAIC, the only measure of merit for his "economic rescue plan" that matters is whether or not he rescues the economy.I agree. The economy must recover for his plans to have considered succeed. Not green shoots or spots of economic revitalizantion but full blown recovery. He owns it now. It doesn't recover its his fault.

mlyonsd
04-05-2010, 11:14 AM
I agree. The economy must recover for his plans to have considered succeed. Not green shoots or spots of economic revitalizantion but full blown recovery. He owns it now. It doesn't recover its his fault.
Now if we could all agree what the definition of "full blown recovery" is imagine how much happier a place this will be until 2012? :)

BigRedChief
04-05-2010, 11:17 AM
Now if we could all agree what the definition of "full blown recovery" is imagine how much happier a place this will be until 2012? :)To paraphrase the words of SCOTUS judge Potter Stewart.....I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

The Mad Crapper
04-06-2010, 08:53 AM
Barack Hussein Obama is the 44th President of the United States because he:

A. Has exhibited overweening ambition since his college years

B. Possesses an impressive intellect

C. Exudes charisma in person and on television

D. Chose Chicago as the place to try out his seemingly delusional career plan

E. Married a remarkable woman who hoped he would not enter electoral politics but supported him anyway

F. Benefitted from a series of circumstances beyond his control, including the demise or retirement of politicians who would have blocked his way to the White House

G. Discovered a path in a racist, xenophobic society to benefit from his bi-racial heritage and his youthful experiences in other societies

H. All of the above

BucEyedPea
04-06-2010, 08:55 AM
We don't need the govt or Obama to rescue us. All he has to do is get out of our way and stop stealing our money. They just want us to feel we need them. So we become dependent on them. That's not only a way to hold power by getting more votes from the ignorant but it's vile and evil.

BigRedChief
04-06-2010, 09:19 AM
We are waiting Mr. Crapper.....Still waiting...

The Mad Crapper
04-06-2010, 09:22 AM
Still waiting...

For what? I'm not here to rubber stamp your bullshit. B.O. is a racist, communist piece of garbage and you are his footstool.

***********************************

Taking off the rose-colored glasses

The post 2007 recession has eliminated 8.4 million jobs and rendered 15.7 million American's jobless.

The mere fact that the palatable version of the unemployment rate has remained at 9.7% for three straight months, has Wall Street cheering.

Before chiming in, consider what it will take to simply get back to a normal unemployment rate of 5%. This is mindboggling.

The current labor force of 154 million will increase by about 1.8 million over each of the next five years because of 'newbies' entering the job market. By 2014, the labor force will be around 163 million. A 5% U-3 (not U-6) unemployment rate would equate to 8.15 million workers without a job.

7.55 million jobs will have to be created to reduce the number of job-less workers from today's 15.7 million to 8.15 million. To accomplish this, there would have to be 125,833 jobs created each and every month over the next five years with no jobs lost.

The average monthly job growth over the past 10 years has been about 50,000. The average monthly job growth over the past 20 years has been about 90,000. Keep in mind that the 1990 - 2010 timeframe hosted the biggest bull market and economic expansion in history. Do you see a 1990s and early 2000s bull market around you?

Explaining the unexplainable

The discrepancy between the stock market (NYSEArca: VTI - News) and the actual economy is as obvious as an approaching freight train.

The Dow Jones (DJI: ^DJI), S&P 500 (SNP: ^GSPC), Nasdaq (Nasdaq: ^IXIC) and virtually all other indexes have rallied while the economy has only improved marginally. What caused this massive rally from the March 2009 lows?

After a 55% drop from October 2007 to March 2009, the indexes were extremely oversold and nearly everyone involved in investing had turned bearish, according to some polls, 4 out of 5 investors were bearish and sold stocks.

For contrarian investors, this is a buy signal. In fact, the ETF Profit Strategy Newsletter issued a Trend Change Alert on March 2nd and recommended to load up on long and leveraged ETFs such as the Financial Select Sector SPDRs (NYSEArca: XLF - News) and others.

As per this Trend Change Alert, the rally was to carry the Dow Jones (NYSEArca: DIA - News) as high as 10,000, and the S&P (NYSEArca: SPY - News) as high as 1,000. In hindsight, those target levels were too low. But at the time they were given, they were extremely optimistic and subject to laughter and mockery.

The end of this rally was to be marked by extreme optimism and a 'the worst is over' attitude. Just as extreme pessimism marked the bottom of the previous downturn, extreme optimism was to mark the end of this overextended rally.

Time-proven techniques

Students of market and price behavior know that a good time to square your positions is when everyone else is rushing to buy stocks, while the best time to buy is when 'blood is on Wall Street.'

While news or economic numbers may influence stock prices for a day or two, the pattern of crowd behavior has provided a time-less, reliable template for investors. If things head up, it's time to get out.

Granted, investor sentiment is not a short-term timing tool, but it raises a red flag. Such red flags appeared on a large scale in 2000 and 2007 and on a smaller scale in April 2008 and December 2008.

Even though the red flags were a bit pre-mature they all led to declines of 30% or more. A look at the chart shows that investors who sold out too early in 2000 or too early in 2007 were glad they did just a few months later.

Similarly today, the red flags may be a bit premature and don't necessarily mean you have to sell today, but the chances that prices are lower, perhaps significantly lower months from today, are high.

For some sectors, the period of correction may already have begun. The utilities sector (NYSEArca: XLU - News), materials sector (NYSEArca: XLB - News) and health care sector (NYSEArca: XLV - News) are still below their prior low. China's economy - the supposed engine behind the new bull market - is lagging, with the Shanghai Composite still below its August high.

For right now investor perception is more powerful than reality and any kind of news, even stagnant unemployment, results in rising stock prices.

Do you remember the time - during much of 2007, 2008 and 2009 - when any kind of news resulted in falling prices? Investor's decisions are more emotional than rational. That's why strong trends tend to persist longer than anticipated, as is the case with this rally.

Once the trend changes, however, watch out! The ETF Profit Strategy Newsletter provides regular short, mid, and long-term forecasts along with a target level for the end of this rally and the ultimate market bottom.

If history is correct once again, the broad investing masses will be buying close to the top and selling close to the bottom. It takes an out-of-the box thinker to stay ahead of the trend.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-Sobering-Truth-Behind-etfguide-1880820326.html?x=0

BigRedChief
04-06-2010, 10:13 AM
Still waiting...and we still wait. I've called you out on your lies. Provided proof that they are lies. Either take it back or admit you are wrong.

The Mad Crapper
04-06-2010, 10:34 AM
and we still wait. I've called you out on your lies. Provided proof that they are lies. Either take it back or admit you are wrong.

You're an idiot.

ROFL

BigRedChief
04-06-2010, 11:08 AM
and we still wait. I've called you out on your lies. Provided proof that they are lies. Either take it back or admit you are wrong.wellll this can be your own personal BEP thread then that I'll keep bumping until you admit you were either lying or were wrong. Your hyprocritical nature for all to see.

BigRedChief
04-07-2010, 06:52 AM
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by BigRedChief http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6655593#post6655593)
and we still wait. I've called you out on your lies. Provided proof that they are lies. Either take it back or admit you are wrong.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

wellll this can be your own personal BEP thread then that I'll keep bumping until you admit you were either lying or were wrong. Your hyprocritical nature for all to see.

Mad Crapper is a liar?

The Mad Crapper
04-07-2010, 08:56 AM
OK, I'll amend my assessment to "failed so far". AFAIC, the only measure of merit for his "economic rescue plan" that matters is whether or not he rescues the economy.

Pat, it is failed.

Unemployment will not be below 9.7% by November 2010, and you can expect to see a bloodbath for dims at the voting booths.

BigRedChief
04-09-2010, 07:55 AM
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by BigRedChief http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6655593#post6655593)
and we still wait. I've called you out on your lies. Provided proof that they are lies. Either take it back or admit you are wrong.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



Mad Crapper is a liar?
This

Chief Henry
04-09-2010, 09:29 AM
Sioux City, Iowa is losing a John Morrell Plant with about 1,300 jobs.

All that change the democrats started with in 2006 is looking like the real deal now.

The Mad Crapper
04-09-2010, 09:39 AM
So hows he done since that promise to the middle class

The stimulus bill raised that exclusion for caital gains to 75 percent. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/3/eliminate-capital-gains-taxes-for-small-businesses/ Plans in place to totally eliminate.
Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs, http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/
SAA. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/505/create-a-new-american-jobs-tax-credit-for-companie/)
In the works. http://blog.taragana.com/business/2010/01/28/obama-vows-to-cut-tax-breaks-of-firms-that-ship-jobs-abroad-25542/
Tax cut for 95 percent? The stimulus made it so. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/barack-obama/tax-cut-95-percent-stimulus-made-it-so/
Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
Not yet
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/housing/)
Obama considering it now. http://www.realtown.com/samantaparks/blog/government-thinking-about-foreclosure-freeze
promise kept http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/507/extend-unemployment-insurance-benefits-and-tempora/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/economy/
Done. stimulus bill


BRC, you've been outted so many times for stupidity, dishonesty and being a B.O. toady that I didn't want to have to do it... again.

But your boy B.O. can talk about how he didn't raise taxes on "95%" of the country and he continues to recite that lie---

But the facts are these:

If the Bush tax cuts were so bad, why is B.O. extending them to 75% of the taxpayers who benefited from them? Well thats a rhetorical question (see www.dictionary.com).

B.O. is right when he says he won't personally raise anybody's taxes, instead he rams through legislation mandating that the states do his dirty work for him. He's a class A scumbag alright and you are his footstool.

This is why we have a Tea Party Movement you stupid jackass. This is why over a dozen states (and growing) have filed a lawsuit against this legislation, you drooling moron.

The Mad Crapper
10-09-2010, 02:40 PM
Friday's unemployment report for September, the last before the election, brought more bad news for the Barack Obama Democrats.

Noteworthy is the fact that stocks rallied a bit on the lackluster and tepid jobs numbers, pushing through the 11,000 mark. But more and more, it seems bad economic news illustrating the failure of Obamanomics becomes good news for stocks on the expectation of a GOP tsunami in November.

The unemployment rate itself held at 9.6 percent. It's been over 9.5 percent for 14 straight months. Meanwhile, the marginally unemployed -- or the so-called impairment rate (U-6) -- jumped to 17.1 percent from 16.7 percent.

These headlines are political poison for Democrats. Voters are going to keep asking, What exactly did we get for a $1 trillion stimulus-spending package that puts us deeper in hock?

Overall, nonfarm payrolls fell 95,000 for September, largely from a drop in census workers and state and local government employees. Private payrolls increased 64,000, only a third of what's necessary to sustainably reduce unemployment.

Average hourly wages were flat, as was the workweek.

Looking back, the jobs story was much stronger in the first four months of the year through April. But job creation has slowed markedly since then, along with the overall economy.

The household survey, which picks up small businesses, is the better story. This report has grown by 1.6 million jobs year-to-date (adjusted for census workers), or 178,000 per month. And in the payroll survey, corporate jobs have increased 863,000 in the private sector, coming to 96,000 per month. Yet both surveys must grow over 200,000 per month in order to truly dent stubbornly high unemployment.

There is no double-dip recession here. The recovery is probably advancing at about a 2 percent to 3 percent rate. But that's a sluggish pace at best. We should be growing at least twice as fast.

Precisely because of the obvious failure of the Obama stimulus-spending program to adequately create jobs, the Federal Reserve is moving toward re-priming the pump. It's the addition of yet another bad policy of dollar destruction to the first mistake of massive spending.

Think of it this way: The Fed is probably going to add another $1 trillion of new cash to the financial system. But as all those new dollars are created, the dollar excess sinks the greenback exchange rate. And that means investors will take the new money the Fed creates and drain it out of the U.S. financial system into more reliable currencies. Go figure Ben Bernanke's logic.

The same thing happened between 2002 and 2006. The Fed was too loose for too long, the dollar fell too far, and all that cash fled the country, thereby undermining the George W. Bush tax cuts.

Meanwhile, with today's rapid rise in gold and commodity prices, a new inflation tax will be imposed on consumers and businesses. Bad for growth. Oil has jumped to $83 a barrel, and gas at the retail pump is heading toward $3 a gallon.

And on top of all this, a world currency and trade war beckons. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner is rapidly escalating the China-bashing rhetoric, as he blames the Chinese yuan for American economic woes. Shades of the 1930s. Neither the Treasury nor the Fed seems interested in defending the dollar's world-reserve-currency status, or U.S. global economic leadership. And no one in official Washington seems interested in global-currency stability backed by a golden anchor.

But here's the real problem. New numbers from the Congressional Budget Office show a 9 percent increase in federal budget spending for fiscal 2010. That's about six-times the inflation rate. Astronomical.

Federal spending is now 25 percent of gross domestic product, way past the historical norm of 20 percent. And the budget gap is $1.3 trillion. So how can you blame investors or businesses for asking this simple question: How high are my taxes going to go to finance all this?

Until this question is answered to their satisfaction, the job-creating engines will remain dormant. Obamacare is a massive tax and regulatory threat. And so is the spending and deficit problem. The Fed can pour all the new money it wants into the economy, but it cannot change any of this.

Then again, the elections can.

-Larry Kudlow

http://townhall.com/columnists/LarryKudlow/2010/10/09/jobs_tepid,_dems_out,_stocks_up/page/2

Calcountry
10-09-2010, 02:53 PM
I agree. The economy must recover for his plans to have considered succeed. Not green shoots or spots of economic revitalizantion but full blown recovery. He owns it now. It doesn't recover its his fault.So then, can we expect your support in the upcoming elections?

Frankie
10-09-2010, 11:20 PM
BRC, you've been outted so many times for stupidity, dishonesty

Pot, meet the kettle.

On second thought,... toilet bowl, meet the kettle.

Mr. Kotter
10-09-2010, 11:35 PM
The President....appears to be, shall we say, "laboring" to save any chance he has at avoiding becoming the second-coming of Jimmy Carter....at this point. He appears vibrant and diligent....or, conversely, desperate.

We'll keep "watch" as he must surely react.... :hmmm:

The Mad Crapper
01-12-2011, 08:42 AM
Public strongly opposes debt ceiling increase: Reuters/Ipsos

Wednesday January 12, 2011, 7:23 am EST
By Andy Sullivan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. public overwhelmingly opposes raising the country's debt limit even though failure to do so could hurt America's international standing and push up borrowing costs, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Wednesday.

Some 71 percent of those surveyed oppose increasing the borrowing authority, the focus of a brewing political battle over federal spending. Only 18 percent support an increase.

The Mad Crapper
01-12-2011, 09:35 AM
It sounds pretty self-explanatory to me. Add to it, Obama's plan to slash frivalous government spending and getting out of the war in Iraq and that in itself will be a solution to part of the problem.

ROFL

ROYC75
01-12-2011, 09:38 AM
BRC.... Obo has failed so far. The country is in trouble, what is his backup plan ?

The Mad Crapper
01-12-2011, 09:46 AM
BRC.... Obo has failed so far. The country is in trouble, what is his backup plan ?

Backup plan? Kneecap the 1st and 2nd Amendment, why of course.

Frankie
01-12-2011, 10:16 AM
BRC.... Obo has failed so far. The country is in trouble, what is his backup plan ?

Not to get into an argument with you ROY, but I defer to my statement on this forum during the '08 presidential campaigns. I was a Hillary supporter but I said that no matter who (Dem or Repub) would become POTUS, he or she would be considered a failure at least, at least, for the duration of his/her first term. The mess he/she would inherit was THAT BAD, IMO.

Now, I have been very critical of and disappointed with Obama in many ways. But in all fairness he will not have much to show in terms of solid, tangible recovery for at least another 2 years.

The Mad Crapper
01-12-2011, 01:05 PM
States still facing big budget gaps after two tough years

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EmailPrint..Tami Luhby, senior writer, On Wednesday January 12, 2011, 1:39 pm EST
The nation's battered state governments face a collective $41 billion budget gap next fiscal year, a survey released Wednesday found.

State officials will have to contend with slow revenue growth, increased spending demands and the end of federal stimulus assistance next year, according to the semi-annual Fiscal Survey of States, released by the National Governors Association and the National Association of State Budget Officers.

"Many budget and governor's offices are telling us that fiscal 2012 could be even worse because so many painful choices have already been taken and more need to be taken as we go further," said Scott Pattison, head of the state budget officers' group.

The start of the 2012 fiscal year is still seven months away for most states, but the gaps are already appearing.

Some 23 states are reporting a total of $41 billion in budget shortfalls. And 11 states must close $10 billion in deficits before the current fiscal year ends.

Total revenues this year are forecast to be $636 billion.

The cutting has already begun even though the current fiscal year is not even half over: 14 states have already slashed $4 billion.

States are also hiking taxes and fees to the tune of $6 billion in fiscal 2011, after increasing them by nearly $24 billion in the previous year. And the relied on $43 billion in federal Recovery Act funds, primarily to help cover the costs of Medicaid and education.

"The significant wind down of this support will result in a continuation of extremely tight fiscal conditions for states and could lead to further state spending cuts," the report said.

Third tough year

The Great Recession has hit state governments hard. Over the past three fiscal years, states have closed $230 billion in budget gaps. They have slashed spending for education, social services and public safety. They've cut the state workforce and reduced aid to local governments.

And they've raided their rainy day funds, drawing them down to a total 2.4% of expenditures when the flush states of Alaska and Texas are excluded. Budget experts recommend states hold 5% of expenditures in reserve.

State revenues are expected to pick up a little this year as the national economy slowly recovers. Sales, personal income and corporate income taxes are projected to rise 5% in fiscal 2011. That's a welcome change from the revenue drops of recent years. In fiscal 2010, for instance, collections were 2.7% lower than the year before.

But general fund revenues have a long way to go before they return to pre-recession levels. The total expected fiscal 2011 revenues are 6.5% below fiscal 2008 levels.

Spending is also expected to rise. State general fund expenditures are budgeted to increase 5.3% this fiscal year.

Still, the future doesn't look bright for states, which typically recover two years after the nation's economy. Seventeen states are already reporting nearly $41 billion in budget gaps for fiscal 2013.

And states are likely to suffer $175 billion in gaps over the next three years, said Raymond Scheppach, executive director of the governors association.

The federal government is not expected to step in to help the states, as it did in 2009 with the Recovery Act. While governors successfully lobbied their representatives for more Medicaid assistance, they are not asking for additional funding and Congress is not likely to provide any, Scheppach said.

ROYC75
01-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Not to get into an argument with you ROY, but I defer to my statement on this forum during the '08 presidential campaigns. I was a Hillary supporter but I said that no matter who (Dem or Repub) would become POTUS, he or she would be considered a failure at least, at least, for the duration of his/her first term. The mess he/she would inherit was THAT BAD, IMO.

Now, I have been very critical of and disappointed with Obama in many ways. But in all fairness he will not have much to show in terms of solid, tangible recovery for at least another 2 years.


I said the very same thing. That most likely anything anyone did was going to be wrong or make it worse. I feel this way now, I believe it's worst, not because it's 2 years later, but the approach he has taken is wrong and going to leave the country in worst shape than before.

So a backup plan needs to be implemented or at least looked at. The people have pretty much rejected his vision so far.

How long do we let it go before seeing real results to GOOD CHANGE ?

Too many high priced social programs is not the answer. That's called BIG GOVERNMENT.

The Mad Crapper
01-13-2011, 07:39 AM
How a housing slump will slow the jobs trainPosted by Colin Barr
January 12, 2011 6:34 am


Will a housing double dip deflate the wheezing jobs recovery?

It seems impolite to ask, what with employment growth sucking wind already. Companies added just around 100,000 jobs a month over the past year, a rate Fed chief Ben Bernanke dismissed Friday as "insufficient to materially reduce the unemployment rate."


But it gets worse. Economists at Bank of America Merrill Lynch say one key to a jobs recovery is an improvement in housing -- because so much job creation is driven by new businesses that have in recent years been financed in part by home equity borrowing.

This sort of job creation has been missing the last couple years, thanks to the housing crash. If U.S. house prices embark as expected on a new decline, the long-awaited hiring renaissance could be put on hold yet again.

"There has been an adverse feedback loop where low home prices lead to tight credit, hurting jobs and prolonging the housing recession," writes economist Michelle Meyer.

Much of the concern about another housing downturn revolves around the banks. A sharp house-price decline could lead to more foreclosures, hammering profits and reducing lending, such as it is.

But Meyer points to another effect that could be equally powerful for the jobs market. She notes that falling house prices hit home equity, preventing small business owners from tapping a key source of financing.

A recent study by the Cleveland Fed found that at least a quarter of small business owners in 2007 used home equity to finance their business. With as many as 1 in 4 homeowners under water on their mortgages, many would-be employers are unable to borrow as they were during the boom.

"Returning small business owners to pre-recession levels of credit access will require an increase in home prices or a weaning of small business owners from the use of home equity as a source of financing," wrote Fed economist Mark E. Schweitzer and Case Western enterpreneurial studies professor Scott A. Shane.

That's important because a disproportionate amount of job creation comes from new business start-ups, which of course typically at least start small. Start-ups account for just 3% of overall employment but 20% of new jobs in any given year, according to Meyer.

When that engine sputters as it has in recent years, with tight credit and consumer belt-tightening it robs the economy of one of its driving forces. This has been the condition ever since the recession started, according to BofA.

Business formation peaked in the third quarter of 2007 and fell sharply for the next six quarters, bottoming in early 2009. However, there was little recovery since then with the pace of new business formation holding roughly steady at 1Q09 levels. Job creation from business formation continued to decline and as of early 2010 was still insufficient to offset the number of jobs lost from business closings.

This isn't the only problem in the jobs market, of course. There are lots of moving parts beyond housing, such as plunging labor force participation (see chart, right) as discouraged workers give up on trying to find work. And there is considerable imprecision in comparing and contrasting the many jobs reports, all of which have their pros and cons and some of which come out only after considerable delay.

"The surveys can't catch everything, but it's obviously correct that some older folks who lose their jobs are not going back into the work force," said Jeff Miller, a Chicago-area investment adviser who follows the economy at his A Dash of Insight blog. "And there are people who can't move to get a new job because they can't sell their house."

And it's worth noting that Meyer isn't calling for the jobs picture to grow even dimmer. She predicts the U.S. economy will add 175,000 jobs a month over the course of 2011, which will bring the unemployment rate down a shade, to 8.7% from the recent 9.4%.

Yet perversely, bad news for housing and jobs now conspire to keep the wind behind the stock market, which is addicted to free money from the Fed.

Indeed, some of the dynamics undermining U.S. workers cheap financing for big, global companies that do much of their hiring overseas; rising productivity as employers stretch resources and trim fat; and a surplus of both workers and production capacity spell good news, at least at the moment, for investors.

"We have bad news for an awful lot of people, but it's a Goldilocks economy for stocks," said Keith Springer, a financial adviser in Sacramento. "The Fed is trying to create a bubble of artificial demand to create the wealth effect. It doesn't do much for jobs, but for now it's pretty good at driving stock prices."

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/12/how-a-housing-slump-will-slow-the-jobs-train/