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Donger
10-13-2008, 10:26 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08287/919582-470.stm?cmpid=elections.xml

Even as the U.S. confronts two long wars, neither Sen. John McCain nor Sen. Barack Obama believes the country should take the politically perilous step of reviving the military draft.

But the two presidential candidates disagree on a key foundation of any future draft: Mr. Obama supports a requirement for both men and women to register with the Selective Service, while Mr. McCain doesn't think women should have to register.

Also, Mr. Obama would consider officially opening combat positions to women. Mr. McCain would not.

"Women are already serving in combat [in Iraq and Afghanistan] and the current policy should be updated to reflect realities on the ground," said Wendy Morigi, Mr. Obama's national security spokeswoman. "Barack Obama would consult with military commanders to review the constraints that remain."

According to his campaign, Mr. McCain supports the current Department of Defense restrictions on women in combat units, including armor, field artillery and special forces.

In 1980, President Jimmy Carter revived the Selective Service system, which compiles a list of nearly all men in the U.S. between 18 and 25 in case a crisis forces the government to undertake a massive expansion of the military.

Both Congress and the Supreme Court have exempted women from registration because of the combat rules.

For years, that position has rankled some women's rights groups and men who face penalties for not registering -- including loss of employment with the federal government -- at a time when female soldiers regularly find themselves in dangerous situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, both conflicts without defined battlefields.

Mr. McCain, a decorated former Navy pilot who spent five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, speaks often of how his military service has helped prepare him for the role of commander in chief and how his time as a captive in Hanoi reinforced his love of country.

Yet he doesn't want to see a return to mandatory service, for men or women, according to his presidential campaign.

"Sen. McCain strongly believes that an all-volunteer force is preferable to a conscripted force," said Paul Lindsay, a spokesman for the campaign. "The tools available to recruiters have historically enabled the all-volunteer force to attract sufficient numbers of qualified recruits."

His views are echoed by many high-ranking officers in the military, who prefer a force of motivated volunteers. But some of the same officers have also expressed concerns about the strains of more than six years of sustained combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, especially if the U.S. commitment in both countries doesn't end in the near future.

Mr. Obama has said repeatedly that he will draw down the U.S. military presence in Iraq if he becomes president, but he has also said he would increase the number of troops in Afghanistan, where Taliban forces have seen a resurgence in recent years.

During a CNN/YouTube debate for Democratic presidential candidates last year, he said he doesn't "agree" with the draft.

But he did say women should be expected to register with the Selective Service, comparing the role of women to black soldiers and airmen who served during World War II, when the armed forces were still segregated.

"There was a time when African-Americans weren't allowed to serve in combat," Mr. Obama said. "And yet, when they did, not only did they perform brilliantly, but what also happened is they helped to change America, and they helped to underscore that we're equal.

"And I think that if women are registered for service -- not necessarily in combat roles, and I don't agree with the draft -- I think it will help to send a message to my two daughters that they've got obligations to this great country as well as boys do."

Elaine Donnelly, a former member of President Bill Clinton's Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces, dismissed Mr. Obama's comparison of the roles of women and black soldiers, arguing that males and females, in general, aren't equal on the battlefield.

"There are differences between men and women where physical strength is an issue," said Ms. Donnelly, who heads the nonpartisan Center for Military Readiness. "There are a lot of civilian feminists who are making unreasonable demands on the military."

Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president of the National Women's Law Center, argues that women should have a chance to compete for any position in the armed forces.

"I hope a new president will revisit the restrictions," she said.

Guru
10-13-2008, 10:27 AM
Equal rights.

Donger
10-13-2008, 10:29 AM
What do our Barack Hussein followers think about this? Should women be forced to register as men are?

BucEyedPea
10-13-2008, 10:59 AM
What do our Barack Hussein followers think about this? Should women be forced to register as men are?

I don't like this at all. And if it's true, I could be tempted to switch my vote to McCain as much as I'd hate it. I have a daughter to worry about. I suppose I could teach her to be a conscientious objector. I'm not an o-bot and I know you asked them. But having to register for the draft is NOT an inalienable or fundamental right. I also have never supported women being in combat even if they voluntary enter.

Donger
10-13-2008, 11:04 AM
I don't like this at all. And if it's true, I could be tempted to switch my vote to McCain as much as I'd hate it. I have a daughter to worry about. I suppose I could teach her to be a conscientious objector. I'm not an o-bot and I know you asked them. But having to register for the draft is NOT an inalienable or fundamental right. I also have never supported women being in combat even if they voluntary enter.

Well, it sounds like Barack Hussein will push for females to be required to register.

triple
10-13-2008, 11:08 AM
What's good for the goose is good for the hen, isn't it?

Donger
10-13-2008, 11:11 AM
I actually agree with Barack Hussein on this one. Women should be required to register.

I just wonder how his female base will react to being forced have their girls register.

Brock
10-13-2008, 11:13 AM
Women definitely don't need to be anywhere near combat situations. That's just asking for trouble.

StcChief
10-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Register Women, absolutely. Combat no way. Plenty of "support" roles available.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:18 AM
I actually agree with Barack Hussein on this one. Women should be required to register.



I agree with this idea.

In what he stated women wouldn't be put in combat roles and he doesn't believe in a draft but they would have some sort of obligation if and when we needed the draft.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Taco John
10-13-2008, 11:18 AM
The draft would become obsolete if women were required to register for it.

Donger
10-13-2008, 11:19 AM
I agree with this idea.

In what he stated women wouldn't be put in combat roles and he doesn't believe in a draft but they would have some sort of obligation if and when we needed the draft.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

"Also, Mr. Obama would consider officially opening combat positions to women."

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm all for it. ERA and all.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:22 AM
"Also, Mr. Obama would consider officially opening combat positions to women."

If they can handle it then they should be given that opportunity. Treat them the same as men and see if they can handle the training.

Brock
10-13-2008, 11:23 AM
If they can handle it then they should be given that opportunity. Treat them the same as men and see if they can handle the training.

You know that's not how it works. They'd have to lower the bar.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-13-2008, 11:25 AM
You know that's not how it works. They'd have to lower the bar.

As if they already didn't in order to have enough troops to fight these wars.

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:25 AM
You know that's not how it works. They'd have to lower the bar. Perfect, they we can truly be weaker.

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:26 AM
As if they already didn't in order to have enough troops to fight these wars. no arguement here.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:27 AM
You know that's not how it works. They'd have to lower the bar.

If women wanted to be in Special Forces IMO they wouldn't allow them to lower the bar they would have to pass all the requirements that men did.

Didn't you watch GI Jane? :D

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:28 AM
If women wanted to be in Special Forces IMO they wouldn't allow them to lower the bar they would have to pass all the requirements that men did.

Didn't you watch GI Jane? :D Women are master manipulators already. Just dress them up pretty and watch the fireworks. :D

I'm kidding.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-13-2008, 11:29 AM
I have no problem with allowing women to register for selective service or be able to serve in combat duty.

Plenty of women are perfectly capable of doing so. Even if their ruck sack has to be a few pounds lighter, BFD.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:32 AM
Women are master manipulators already. Just dress them up pretty and watch the fireworks. :D

I'm kidding.

That is what is happening in The Unit. They have a woman in Delta Force and she is tough. :)

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:34 AM
That is what is happening in The Unit. They have a woman in Delta Force and she is tough. :)That show would be great if they would just keep the wives out of it.

dirk digler
10-13-2008, 11:36 AM
That show would be great if they would just keep the wives out of it.

LMAO I agree but I love the show anyway.

Guru
10-13-2008, 11:38 AM
LMAO I agree but I love the show anyway. I just can't watch it. The wives piss me off with their stupidity. Granted its the writers but still. A show called The Unit should be about the men don't you think. :D

Donger
10-13-2008, 11:39 AM
No female followers yet?

RJ
10-13-2008, 11:40 AM
Register Women, absolutely. Combat no way. Plenty of "support" roles available.


Ditto.

Brock
10-13-2008, 11:46 AM
I wonder if they'll be offered Rape Benefits.

triple
10-13-2008, 11:50 AM
I wonder if you asked members of the armed forces about the combat roles thing, or about lowering the bar, what they would think about that.

BucEyedPea
10-13-2008, 01:12 PM
What's good for the goose is good for the hen, isn't it?

So you're prepared to have a baby and also nurse?

No what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander.
Not imo. I've read too much about the rape of females in our military to know how this isn't worthwhile.
It will just harden men to women even more. Some women soldiers died of dehydration in Iraq because they
wouldn't drink enough water for fear of being raped when going to the latrine at night.

BucEyedPea
10-13-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm all for it. ERA and all.

I'm flatly opposed to ERA. We lose many good protections as women, if that ever goes through.

Guru
10-13-2008, 02:24 PM
I'm flatly opposed to ERA. We lose many good protections as women, if that ever goes through.It definitely created more problems than it solved.

HMc
10-13-2008, 09:44 PM
Donger, aern't you an Englishman? If so, what's with the constant usage of "Hussein"? Surely you, if anyone here, would acknowlegde that Hussein is a very common muslim name, and that the captain of your national cricket side from 1999 - 2003 was indeed Nasser Hussein?

Has the transplant turned you into a irrational, unlettered dickhead or did you leave England that way?

CHIEF4EVER
10-14-2008, 01:42 AM
I served in the Infantry for many years and also had the opportunity to train both male and female soldiers as a Drill Sergeant. I can tell you from experience that it is a horrible idea to allow women to serve in combat roles. While there are a select few who could physically handle it, the vast majority simply don't possess the physical strength to do the job effectively. I have no problem in them being drafted for support MOSs.

Taco John
10-14-2008, 01:51 AM
Donger, aern't you an Englishman? If so, what's with the constant usage of "Hussein"? Surely you, if anyone here, would acknowlegde that Hussein is a very common muslim name, and that the captain of your national cricket side from 1999 - 2003 was indeed Nasser Hussein?

Has the transplant turned you into a irrational, unlettered dickhead or did you leave England that way?



It's an honor deficiency that happens when someone becomes infected with millennial Republicanism.

Guru
10-14-2008, 02:04 AM
Donger, aern't you an Englishman? If so, what's with the constant usage of "Hussein"? Surely you, if anyone here, would acknowlegde that Hussein is a very common muslim name, and that the captain of your national cricket side from 1999 - 2003 was indeed Nasser Hussein?

Has the transplant turned you into a irrational, unlettered dickhead or did you leave England that way?He just enjoys annoying the piss out of everyone.

Donger
10-14-2008, 07:31 AM
Donger, aern't you an Englishman? If so, what's with the constant usage of "Hussein"? Surely you, if anyone here, would acknowlegde that Hussein is a very common muslim name, and that the captain of your national cricket side from 1999 - 2003 was indeed Nasser Hussein?

Has the transplant turned you into a irrational, unlettered dickhead or did you leave England that way?

No, I'm an American.

BucEyedPea
10-14-2008, 07:53 AM
It definitely created more problems than it solved.

I thought it was defeated. I know it's come up again but I don't know what happened with it.
It takes equality to absurdity by not recognizing differences.

jidar
10-14-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm not a fan of selective service for either sex.

If the DOD can't field a serviceable military with the amount of money they're being paid then that's where the problem lies and where it ought to be fixed.

Amnorix
10-14-2008, 08:34 AM
Wow, this sure is important, given the 0.000000000000000001% chance that it will need to be implemented and then actually happen.

Amnorix
10-14-2008, 08:35 AM
Donger, aern't you an Englishman? If so, what's with the constant usage of "Hussein"? Surely you, if anyone here, would acknowlegde that Hussein is a very common muslim name, and that the captain of your national cricket side from 1999 - 2003 was indeed Nasser Hussein?

Has the transplant turned you into a irrational, unlettered dickhead or did you leave England that way?

He just does it to spin everyone up. Ignore it.