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View Full Version : Elections The Myth of ACORN fraud: They are required to turn in bogus forms.


jAZ
10-13-2008, 02:08 PM
Heh...

I don't know why this didn't occur to me sooner, but in reading a story about this the other day, I read that ACORN is required by law (and rightly so) to turn in every single registration they collect, even the obviously bogus ones. They aren't allowed to thorw away registrations.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/a_dose_of_reality_on_the_acorn.php

In many states, ACORN is required by law to turn in all the forms it collects, though the law differs from state to law, according to experts.

ACORN has consistently said that it flags suspicious forms for election officials. Indeed, in Nevada where last week an ACORN office was raided in an investigation headed by the Secretary of State, ACORN was already cooperating with authorities.

According to a statement from the group which has not been disputed by state officials, in July, ACORN set up a meeting with county elections officials and the Secretary of State's office to urge them to take action on information ACORN had provided. Since then, "ACORN has provided officials with copies and--in some cases--second copies of many of the personnel records and the 'problem card packages' and cover sheets with which we originally identified the problem cards."

The other connection is that the Republicans US Attorney Generals that were fired by Karl Rove, were largely fired for refusing to bring up trumped up charges of voter registration fraud against ACORN or other organizations.

It's also worth noting that similar allegations were made against ACORN in the last few election cycles, and several investigations were conducted, none of which found evidence of widespread voter fraud. Many of these were conducted by US attorneys, who were pressured by GOP political figures to investigate the issue, then fired after they failed to come up with sufficient evidence.

Both above taken from TPM here:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/a_dose_of_reality_on_the_acorn.php

ROYC75
10-13-2008, 02:15 PM
Then what is the purpose of them getting multiple registrations from the same person or complete fakes?

All this crap about the ACORN employees are paid by the number of voters they turn in . Does ACORN pay them for these bogus forms ?

FTR, ACORN is clearly on the OBAMa side of this election.

I would like to know the number of democrats and republicans that are signed up by ACORN.

HC_Chief
10-13-2008, 02:17 PM
VAST
RIGHTWING
CONSPIRACY

jAZ
10-13-2008, 02:22 PM
Then what is the purpose of them getting multiple registrations from the same person or complete fakes?
Cost of doing business. They pay people to register voters. Some of those people steal from ACORN but sitting on their ass and filling out blank forms with BS names, and then turning them in to collect a paycheck.

All this crap about the ACORN employees are paid by the number of voters they turn in . Does ACORN pay them for these bogus forms ?
These aren't the worlds greatest employees, we are talking about. They are manual labor jobs. They might not ultimately get paid for the document, but ACORN can't throw them away once they have them.
FTR, ACORN is clearly on the OBAMa side of this election.
Yes, that's why Republicans are trying to destroy them.
I would like to know the number of democrats and republicans that are signed up by ACORN.
Fair question, and the very reason they can't throw away any registrations. Otherwise they would throw away Repubilcans and keep Dems only. But I'm sure they are registering more Dems by a wide margin because they are targeting low income voters by zipcode.

jAZ
10-13-2008, 02:24 PM
VAST
RIGHTWING
CONSPIRACY

That's what the Republican AGs seem to be saying.

ChiTown
10-13-2008, 03:25 PM
:spock:

penchief
10-13-2008, 04:50 PM
I didn't even bother to argue this point from the start because I knew it would have been useless. But the Nevada offices that were raided had turned bogus registration forms in accordance with their obligations prior to being raided. Those submissions were used as the justification for the raid.

My opinion is that the republican establishment is trying to preemptively discredit voter turnout before the election. They've already successfully undermined polling and the exit polls in previous elections. IMO, it's all intended to cast doubt on the democratic process, as well as, justify their voter suppression campaign.

HonestChieffan
10-14-2008, 06:40 AM
Is there anything they do that Jaz cannot justify? This is just stupid.

BucEyedPea
10-14-2008, 07:25 AM
Then what is the purpose of them getting multiple registrations from the same person or complete fakes?
What I was wonderin'. It seems to be the people collecting the registrations are cheating in order to get paid. What does this say about these people?

All this crap about the ACORN employees are paid by the number of voters they turn in . Does ACORN pay them for these bogus forms ?

If they do, then it would tell us a lot. And why are they being paid this way ( on supposed to be on production and merit if no cheating)...instead of a living wage for them?

bkkcoh
10-14-2008, 07:57 AM
http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00041/a4s_vote101408_41870c.jpeg

link (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article852295.ece)

How could anyone think this was legit?

BucEyedPea
10-14-2008, 07:59 AM
Awe man, come on. Mickey is real. I know I live here. He's real.:D

ROYC75
10-14-2008, 09:21 AM
I'm here to tell ya, I have met that man, he is a real mouse, I seen him in Orlando too.

Gotta believe ..........

***SPRAYER
10-14-2008, 09:37 AM
Once again, the hapless Berracko Obama has been fooled by what he originally thought were nice people. It seems that ACORN, the voter fraud machine running rampant through America, is not the ACORN the poor Berracko thought it was. So, just like Wright, and Ayers, and Resko, and the many other associations that were not really associations even though he was associated with them, but not really associated because if you were to say they were associated you would then be considered a racist and associated with racists, ACORN has now joined the ever-increasing list of people and organizations Berracko is distancing himself from.

The Obama campaign is now distancing itself from Acorn, claiming Mr. Obama never organized with it and has nothing to do with illegal voter registration. Yet it's disingenuous to channel cash into an operation with a history of fraud and then claim you're shocked to discover reports of fraud. As with Rev. Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers, Mr. Obama was happy to associate with Acorn when it suited his purposes. But now that he's on the brink of the Presidency, he wants to disavow his ties.

jAZ
10-14-2008, 10:08 AM
http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00041/a4s_vote101408_41870c.jpeg

link (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article852295.ece)

How could anyone think this was legit?
Who says it is?

RINGLEADER
10-14-2008, 10:19 AM
If you're going to provide incentives to commit fraud you shouldn't be surprised when you get it.

tiptap
10-14-2008, 10:42 AM
I find that particularly salient concerning Wall St.

ROYC75
10-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Who says it is?

Man, don't you know that Mickey is real, just ask any kid that isn't in school.

Taco John
10-14-2008, 11:02 AM
I really just refuse to listen to anyone complaining about ACORN who hasn't breathed a word about the problems with Diebold the last couple elections.

OnTheWarpath58
10-14-2008, 11:04 AM
I really just refuse to listen to anyone complaining about ACORN who hasn't breathed a word about the problems with Diebold the last couple elections.

QFT.

jAZ
10-14-2008, 11:11 AM
If you're going to provide incentives to commit fraud you shouldn't be surprised when you get it.
That's one bizarre castigation from someone that seems to have a background in business. This is basic problem faced by all temporary employement situations. The person hired doesn't have a long-term vested interest in outcomes of the organization. It's a non-profit, so pay is low. The operation is vast and decentralized, so quality controls are difficult to put in place.

These challenges aren't unique to ACORN, or even political non-profits. They are the same challenges faced by a wide array of private sector employers. Particularly those on tight budgets and with pay structures that include performance incentives. There is always the tendency to inflate your performance to meet the next incentive.

jAZ
10-14-2008, 11:12 AM
I find that particularly salient concerning Wall St.
Brevity FTW!

bkkcoh
10-14-2008, 11:22 AM
Link (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm)


By JEANE MacINTOSH in Cleveland and MAGGIE HABERMAN in New York
October 14, 2008
Posted: 3:44 am
October 14, 2008

Investigators probing ACORN have learned that an Ohio man registered to vote several times and cast a bogus ballot with a fake address, officials said yesterday, as they revealed that nearly 4,000 registration applications supplied by the left-leaning activist group were suspect.

The vote of Darnell Nash, one of four people subpoenaed in a Cuyahoga County probe of ACORN's voter-registration activities, was canceled and his case was turned over to local prosecutors and law enforcement, Board of Elections officials said yesterday.

Nash had registered to vote repeatedly from an address that belonged to a legitimately registered voter, officials said during a hearing at which the subpoenaed voters were to testify.

Board officials had contacted Nash this summer, questioned his address and told him to stop repeat registering.

But still, he breezed into Ohio election offices - the state allows early voting for president - reregistered with a fake address and cast a paper ballot, officials said.

"He came in on 9/30 and Mr. Nash again registered to vote at [someone else's] address, and he cast a ballot," said board official Jane Platten.

Nash did not turn up for the hearing.

The Post reported last week on the Cleveland-area probe and the subpoenas, which were sent out to four people - including two voters who said they were hounded by ACORN workers to register over and over, even when they warned they'd already done so.

It's the latest issue in the probe of ACORN's registering voters in Ohio, one of at least nine states where officials are investigating similar reports of phony sign-ups by the group.

At the same time, officials said, some 5 percent, or 3,650, of the 73,000 total registration cards turned in by ACORN in the Cleveland area from its Project Vote initiative to sign up low-income voters were "questionable," Platten said.

There were "egregious acts of registering multiple times," said Platten. "The extent of it is beyond the resources of this board."

Nash's case and three others were turned over to authorities yesterday, said Ryan Miday, a spokesman for prosecutor Bill Masson.

"We will consider presenting it to a grand jury," Miday said.

A member of the board said if necessary, the FBI or federal prosecutors could be brought in for assistance.

Still, members of the bipartisan board downplayed any voter fraud.

And Platten insisted officials with ACORN have offered "any and all" help in probing the questionable activities. Katy Gall, the Ohio state director for ACORN, said her group is cooperating fully with the investigation.

She added that her group has fired anyone who was found soliciting duplicate registrations.

ACORN, whose political arm has endorsed Democratic nominee Barack Obama, has signed up more than 1.3 million voters for this cycle.

ACORN adviser Scott Levenson said, "If one of the 13,000 [people] we hired is potentially a bad apple in the bunch, we encourage the authorities to prosecute, as appropriate, anyone that did the wrong thing. We discipline [and] we fire workers who [abuse their position] . . . We encourage prosecutors to follow suit."

He also denied suggestions that the group pays canvassers by the number of names they sign up, and that they have quotas.

Also yesterday:

* Two of the four subpoenaed voters, Freddie Johnson and Christopher Barkley, met privately with sheriff's deputies and described what they'd told The Post about being hounded by ACORN workers. Barkley testified at the hearing that some of the registration cards listing his name weren't filled out by him.

* In an e-mail to supporters, John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, slammed "the left-wing activist group ACORN" and suggested, "We can't allow leftist groups like ACORN to steal this election."


-----------------------------

Voter fraud registration that actually appears to be ending up in voter fraud!!!!

jAZ
10-14-2008, 11:36 AM
Voter fraud registration that actually appears to be ending up in voter fraud!!!!
ROFL @ calling one person voting once "voter fraud!!!!"

bkkcoh
10-14-2008, 11:42 AM
ROFL @ calling one person voting once "voter fraud!!!!"

With an invalid voter registration, yes. that is voter fraud. The question is, was it intentional. That I don't really have the answer to, nor do I think anyone else truly does either.

Just stop saying that fraudulant voter registration doesn't lead to actual voter fraud. But I am sure that you and the others aren't going to admit this either.

jAZ
10-14-2008, 11:58 AM
With an invalid voter registration, yes. that is voter fraud. The question is, was it intentional. That I don't really have the answer to, nor do I think anyone else truly does either.

Just stop saying that fraudulant voter registration doesn't lead to actual voter fraud. But I am sure that you and the others aren't going to admit this either.

Is this really the example you want to waive in people's face about voter fraud? Seriously?

ROFL

bkkcoh
10-14-2008, 12:08 PM
Is this really the example you want to waive in people's face about voter fraud? Seriously?

ROFL

But that side of the aisle said that voter fraud <> fraudulant voter registrations. Right?

I guess we can Jimmy Carter come to Ohio on election day and make sure that voter fraud doesn't exist.

jAZ
10-14-2008, 12:24 PM
But that side of the aisle said that voter fraud <> fraudulant voter registrations. Right?

I guess we can Jimmy Carter come to Ohio on election day and make sure that voter fraud doesn't exist.
If you are going to pretend that the sort of "voter fraud" that matters is if someone votes once, but was registered to a wrong address... sure.

But your argument in this thread is rather pathetic since it's an attempt to play on words and be outraged at this sort of inconsequential "fraud" while whipping people up about the threat of stealing an election.

This is a ridiculous example of an actual threat to our democracy. It's so pathetic that you do a disservice to the real cause of securing elections.

Notice I don't say "your cause" becasue your cause is to parrot the party line which (whether you recognize it or not) is ultimately designed to supress real voters from turning out by scaring them into thinking they will break the law if they vote after having been registerd by an ACORN volunteer.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 01:49 PM
I really just refuse to listen to anyone complaining about ACORN who hasn't breathed a word about the problems with Diebold the last couple elections.

Diebold is just a conspiracy!!!

***SPRAYER
10-14-2008, 02:31 PM
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203

While Barack Obama's connection with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has not gone entirely unreported, it has not been fully explained. Most media background pieces simply note Obama's involvement in a 1995 lawsuit on behalf of ACORN. Obama's own website, as well as most major media, fail to reveal the full depth and extent of his relationship with the organization.

Attempts to hide evidence of Obama's involvement with ACORN have included wiping the web clean of potentially damaging articles that had appeared, and were previously publicly accessible. Unfortunately, those behind the attempted cover-up failed to realize that in today's day and age, nothing disappears forever. There also exists another layer of the web, the hidden web, which is full of information included in proprietary scholarly databases where these very same "missing" articles can be easily uncovered.

Obama's campaign website states:

Fact: Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.

Is that really a FACT, or just another lie? Let's take a look at a quote from a 2004 article - Case Study: Chicago- The Barack Obama Campaign - written by Toni Foulkes, a Chicago ACORN Leader, which was published in the journal Social Policy. Did we mention that Social Policy recently pulled this particular article from their website, while leaving links to all other articles up?

"Obama took the case, known as ACORN vs. Edgar (the name of the Republican governor at the time) and we won. Obama then went on to run a voter registration project with Project VOTE in 1992 that made it possible for Carol Moseley Braun to win the Senate that year. Project VOTE delivered 50,000 newly registered voters in that campaign (ACORN delivered about 5,000 of them).

Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result, many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active volunteers in his first campaign for STate Senate and then his failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S. Senate, we were old friends."

Not only does Foulkes boast of Obama's ACORN leadership training, but also makes it clear that Obama's post-law school organizing of "Project VOTE" in 1992 was undertaken in direct partnership with ACORN. The tie between Project VOTE and ACORN is also something that Obama and others have attempted to disprove in recent weeks as ACORN has come under fire for allegations of voter registration fraud.

As recently as March 2008, the Los Angeles Times also made reference to Barack Obama's involvement with ACORN:

"At the time, Talbot worked at the social action group ACORN and initially considered Obama a competitor. But she became so impressed with his work that she invited him to help train her staff." (LA Times, March 2, 2008)

All this information was easily pulled up with minimal time investment. It took less than thirty minutes to find, despite attempts by some to bury the truth. If I could find this with little effort, imagine what could be dug up with a serious, in-depth investigation. Scary, isn't it?

Nevertheless, Barack Obama's campaign website continues to lie and deny the truth about his involvement and association with ACORN. No matter how many times you say it, it does not make it true. The facts do not lie, Senator Obama. It's time to come clean and tell the truth, and it's time for the American people to demand it.

***Update: A person who left a comment on the story below (thank you) has notified us that the Obama website has changed. We have done a follow up story that can be read following this link Here is our follow up story:
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7231 ***

ROYC75
10-14-2008, 03:43 PM
Hey jAZ, Did Obama train the ACORN employees how to commit voter registration and voter fraud ?

They say he was a master at registering voters. Why not learn from the BEST