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Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:40 AM
Watch this...I find it amusing and accurate at the same time...

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I'm sure Johnny will arrive with some kind of great logic on this.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:41 AM
Oh yeah, there's a real moral expert. You just accused yourself. I will stand back and let you make bad into worse.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:42 AM
Oh yeah, there's a real moral expert. You just accused yourself. I will stand back and let you make bad into worse.

Are you discounting the greatness of Carlin?

Not only is he funny but he's rather accurate, he's one of the all time greats.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:47 AM
You are discounting the greatness of God and man who is made in His image and likeness.

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Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:48 AM
Don't litter my Carlin/abortion rant thread with that.

jidar
10-14-2008, 08:48 AM
The stupid assed abortion issue has been nothing but divisive.
The fact that it was so instrumental in getting GWB elected is a pretty good indicator of how much bullshit it is.

jidar
10-14-2008, 08:49 AM
You are discounting the greatness of God and man who is made in His image and likeness.

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but once they're born, who gives a fuck?

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:49 AM
but once they're born, who gives a ****?

God does. End of story.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:50 AM
but once they're born, who gives a fuck?

He didn't watch the video.......I'd honestly like to see him rebut what Carlin is saying it would be pretty good comedy.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:50 AM
The stupid assed abortion issue has been nothing but divisive.
The fact that it was so instrumental in getting GWB elected is a pretty good indicator of how much bullshit it is.

You'd better be damned glad your mother wasn't as warped in her opinions as you are.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:51 AM
Watch the video......I'd like to see the response to the it's not pro life it's anti woman part.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:53 AM
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There will be consequences.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 08:55 AM
Enough of the religious bullshit in the thread.....can you honestly respond to the questions he raises....

jidar
10-14-2008, 08:56 AM
You'd better be damned glad your mother wasn't as warped in her opinions as you are.

I don't give a shit one way or another about abortion law. I'm just saying it's bad for politics and the running this country.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't give a shit one way or another about abortion law. I'm just saying it's bad for politics and the running this country.

Yes, laws protecting the vulnerable are a waste of time. Like that gem we had that said blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Why did we waste our time with the Dred Scott Decision or Plessy vs Ferguson?

Virtue, valor and victory all cost something, Mr. jidar.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:03 AM
You know I'm really tired of the God excuse....the last refuge of a man with no answers argument, oh well "God wants it that way!" or "it came from God".

I'd like to you know hear some logical argument that doesn't have anything to do with God.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:14 AM
You know I'm really tired of the God excuse....the last refuge of a man with no answers argument, oh well "God wants it that way!" or "it came from God".

I'd like to you know hear some logical argument that doesn't have anything to do with God.

You'll have to find a different world, a different universe, an alternate version of reality then. God is, and there is nothing you can do about it.

God is the source of all life and the ultimate arbiter of what is just and equitable. Your arms are much too short to box with the Almighty, therefore he sends you fools like me to make you realize your sparring with me is unfruitful, how much moreso with the Creator of the Universe?

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:15 AM
Johnny is the kind of religious person who annoys me...I think everyone has a right to whatever if you wanna be religious great, I just think you should keep it to yourself and not think everyone else be like also.

phisherman
10-14-2008, 09:21 AM
no chance to shove your beliefs down other people's throats in that kind of world though mecca.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:24 AM
no chance to shove your beliefs down other people's throats in that kind of world though mecca.

I admit I'm atheist, but I don't expect anyone else to be. So why do I get bombarded with the God crap? I expect a logical argument not one about religion.

PRIEST
10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Johnny is the kind of religious person who annoys me...I think everyone has a right to whatever if you wanna be religious great, I just think you should keep it to yourself and not think everyone else be like also.



I agree
But on the other hand John supports McCain who cheats on his wife leaves her with kids moves on to the next one

Saggysack
10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Are you discounting the greatness of Carlin?

Not only is he funny but he's rather accurate, he's one of the all time greats.

Yeah, but he is no Weird Al Yankovic.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:26 AM
Johnny is the kind of religious person who annoys me...I think everyone has a right to whatever if you wanna be religious great, I just think you should keep it to yourself and not think everyone else be like also.

You are posting your religious values and opinions here, so mine are as welcomed.

PRIEST
10-14-2008, 09:27 AM
I agree
But on the other hand John supports McCain who cheats on his wife leaves her with kids moves on to the next one





Disclaimer I am not atheist

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:27 AM
I have NO religious values, I'm not religious.

I have logical values, my decisions on issues and life don't factor in an invisible man in the sky.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 09:29 AM
A candidate that favors denying a womens right to chose is a deal breaker for myself.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:31 AM
I have NO religious values, I'm not religious.

I have logical values, my decisions on issues and life don't factor in an invisible man in the sky.

Baloney. Your opinions are indeed religious, you just don't see it that way. Everyone believes in something. You just happen to believe in foolishness.

"The fool has said in his heart, 'there is no God'." Psalm 36:1

jidar
10-14-2008, 09:33 AM
A candidate that favors denying a womens right to chose is a deal breaker for myself.

Other side of the same coin though isn't it? I wish people could just get over it.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:33 AM
A candidate that favors denying a womens right to chose is a deal breaker for myself.

Here's what your "freedom of choice" is effecting, sir...

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Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:35 AM
That video is about like the bible...science fiction basically.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:37 AM
That video is about like the bible...science fiction basically.

Oh, but George Carlin is solid theology.

I hope you see what you are posting here, sir. If George Carlin yould speak to you now he'd say listen to KCJ.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:39 AM
I suspect Johnny hates Carlin for all his religious shots.

Frankie
10-14-2008, 09:40 AM
Abortion is only a wedge issue, drummed up by the Right to push real issues off the table at in every Election. The U.S. will never outlaw abortion outright. We will be the laughingstock of the Modern world. I don't know of any other country except Nicaragua that has outlawed it.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 09:44 AM
Abortion is only a wedge issue, drummed up by the Right to push real issues off the table at in every Election. The U.S. will never outlaw abortion outright. We will be the laughingstock of the Modern world. I don't know of any other country except Nicaragua that has outlawed it.

Other first world countries probably already laugh at us for alot of the backwards social thinking that still goes on.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:47 AM
Abortion is only a wedge issue, drummed up by the Right to push real issues off the table at in every Election. The U.S. will never outlaw abortion outright. We will be the laughingstock of the Modern world. I don't know of any other country except Nicaragua that has outlawed it.

You can't possibly be that dumb. America outlawed abortion for over 200 years untl a liberal-leaning Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Constitution somehow garaunteed a "right to kill our own offspring" in 1973.

I shudder at the thought of people being this uninformed about the greatest issue of our times. I bet Frankie is pretty glad his mother's politics were a bit more conservative than his.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 09:48 AM
Other first world countries probably already laugh at us for alot of the backwards social thinking that still goes on.

As their birth rates dip below the replacement rate and their Islamicization is garaunteed. Let us follow! More baby killings, lower birth rates, and more Muslims to lead us into moral certitude!

Brock
10-14-2008, 09:49 AM
We must fight off the pagan hordes!

Frankie
10-14-2008, 09:59 AM
You can't possibly be that dumb. America outlawed abortion for over 200 years untl a liberal-leaning Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Constitution somehow garaunteed a "right to kill our own offspring" in 1973.

I shudder at the thought of people being this uninformed about the greatest issue of our times. I bet Frankie is pretty glad his mother's politics were a bit more conservative than his.

1- KCJ, I have always been cordial and respectful with you on this forum. Don't you think I deserve the same from you?

2- Some of us believe just as much as you believe otherwise, that life does NOT begin at conception.

3- Your brand of blind support for abortion disregards the rights of the mother. That is dangerous especially if the pregnancy can endanger the mother who has true, universally defined "life."

4- There are many real issues that affect the lives of the "already born" that by default abortion becomes a secondary issue at best.

Chiefnj2
10-14-2008, 10:02 AM
As their birth rates dip below the replacement rate and their Islamicization is garaunteed. Let us follow! More baby killings, lower birth rates, and more Muslims to lead us into moral certitude!


If only the Inquisition never ended! Drat.

Hey, is it okay if Muslims get abortions?

Saulbadguy
10-14-2008, 10:03 AM
I absolutely love the quote:

"Preborn, you're safe! Preschool, you're FUCKED!"

So much truth to that unfortunately.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 10:14 AM
1- KCJ, I have always been cordial and respectful with you on this forum. Don't you think I deserve the same from you?

2- Some of us believe just as much as you believe otherwise, that life does NOT begin at conception.

3- Your brand of blind support for abortion disregards the rights of the mother. That is dangerous especially if the pregnancy can endanger the mother who has true, universally defined "life."

4- There are many real issues that affect the lives of the "already born" that by default abortion becomes a secondary issue at best.

Abortion is murder, infanticide, that has been decided by secular philiosophers, Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars for millenia. I do not support as your post suggests "blind support for abortion" but conscienteous support for the unborn and their [potential] mothers.

You, not I must answer the question of your mother's values. Had she held yours, you might not be here today, as is the case for 45 million Americans ruthlessly murdered in what used to be the safest place on earth, the womb of our mothers. Now it is the most dangerous place on earth, thanks to the violence done to consciences that allow for abortion, and is eroding every vestige of decency and goodness left in America.

Those already born have a chance. That is beyond dispute. Those annihlated in utero have been restricted from ever even gracing our lives - and judgment is not sleeping. There will be an enormous price to pay.

Saulbadguy
10-14-2008, 10:16 AM
Abortion is murder, infanticide, that has been decided by secular philiosophers, Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars for millenia. I do not support as your post suggests "blind support for abortion" but conscienteous support for the unborn and their [potential] mothers.

You, not I must answer the question of your mother's values. Had she held yours, you might not be here today, as is the case for 45 million Americans ruthlessly murdered in what used to be the safest place on earth, the womb of our mothers. Now it is the most dangerous place on earth, thanks to the violence done to consciences that allow for abortion, and is eroding every vestige of decency and goodness left in America.

Those already born have a chance. That is beyond dispute. Those annihlated in utero have been restricted from ever even gracing our lives - and judgment is not sleeping. There will be an enormous price to pay.

Murder is a term used by the legal arts. "Killing" would be more appropriate.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 10:20 AM
Abortion is murder, infanticide, that has been decided by secular philiosophers, Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars for millenia.
When "life" begins is most defintely not been decided by all religions and all secular beings.

johny you have a right to your opinion and if I felt as you do I would be protesting every day in front of clinics. I just don't think "life" as we human beings know it begins at the moment of conception.

There is also the secular part where religious or moral beliefs are being forced on another citizen.

There is no right and wrong. Good vs. Eviel. There will always be different viewpoints on this issue.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 10:24 AM
Murder is a term used by the legal arts. "Killing" would be more appropriate.
By the way if we are going bibical, the commandment when its translated from in its orginal Hebrew tongue said that shall not murder not thou shalll not kill. Big differece in my view.

KCJohnny
10-14-2008, 10:26 AM
There is no right and wrong.

There is nothing I nor anyone else who fears God need add.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 10:50 AM
There is nothing I nor anyone else who fears God need add.
thats your opinion.

I've looked inside myself and truly examined my motives and feelings and come to this opinion. If God wants to strike me down and punish me by sending me to the everlasting fires of hell then so be it.

Sully
10-14-2008, 10:50 AM
Abortion is murder, infanticide, that has been decided by secular philiosophers, Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars for millenia. I do not support as your post suggests "blind support for abortion" but conscienteous support for the unborn and their [potential] mothers.

You, not I must answer the question of your mother's values. Had she held yours, you might not be here today, as is the case for 45 million Americans ruthlessly murdered in what used to be the safest place on earth, the womb of our mothers. Now it is the most dangerous place on earth, thanks to the violence done to consciences that allow for abortion, and is eroding every vestige of decency and goodness left in America.

Those already born have a chance. That is beyond dispute. Those annihlated in utero have been restricted from ever even gracing our lives - and judgment is not sleeping. There will be an enormous price to pay.

A) "SOME" philosophers. There is nowhere near a consensus.

B) The mother's womb has never been the safest place on earth. Learn some history.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-14-2008, 11:04 AM
KCJohnDoe strikes again.

http://i31.tinypic.com/j6ivcm.jpg

bluehawkdoc
10-14-2008, 01:27 PM
There is no right and wrong.

This "relativism" view has doomed our society. Don't kid yourself about this issue. The arguments are purely a convenience issue for the pro-choice movement.

I just got back from delivering a baby at the hospital not less than 10 minutes ago. I assure you that this little girl was as alive, valuable and living before as after I delivered her. And I assure you, Mecca, that video although disturbing, is not science fiction. Spend a day at abortion clinic and you will never be the same.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 01:35 PM
This "relativism" view has doomed our society. Don't kid yourself about this issue. The arguments are purely a convenience issue for the pro-choice movement.

I just got back from delivering a baby at the hospital not less than 10 minutes ago. I assure you that this little girl was as alive, valuable and living before as after I delivered her. And I assure you, Mecca, that video although disturbing, is not science fiction. Spend a day at abortion clinic and you will never be the same.
I worked at a Level 1 downtown hospital emergency room for 5 years. I've seen enough blood and guts. I know the best way to get brains out of a lab coat so I've experienced my share of gore and pain up close and personal. Once you "see" something you can't unsee it.

Convience? Who are you to tell others how to live their lifes? If your views are religious then what about free will? Isn't that God's plan for us?

Chiefnj2
10-14-2008, 01:42 PM
I just got back from delivering a baby at the hospital not less than 10 minutes ago.

Doesn't your keyboard get all sticky from the afterbirth?

bluehawkdoc
10-14-2008, 02:05 PM
I don't take my laptop into the delivery room anymore. Moms don't seem to appreciate me snickering as I read the posts on Chiefs Planet while they push. I don't get it.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 02:13 PM
Yes, laws protecting the vulnerable are a waste of time. Like that gem we had that said blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Why did we waste our time with the Dred Scott Decision or Plessy vs Ferguson?

Virtue, valor and victory all cost something, Mr. jidar.

You sound like you'd be a big fan of socialism. Jesus was, after all.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-14-2008, 02:17 PM
This "relativism" view has doomed our society. Don't kid yourself about this issue. The arguments are purely a convenience issue for the pro-choice movement.

I just got back from delivering a baby at the hospital not less than 10 minutes ago. I assure you that this little girl was as alive, valuable and living before as after I delivered her. And I assure you, Mecca, that video although disturbing, is not science fiction. Spend a day at abortion clinic and you will never be the same.

Because all people who are pro-choice support a Nick Berg-style beheading as soon as the shoulders pass.

Donger
10-14-2008, 02:28 PM
I love it when atheists go after religious folk.

Amnorix
10-14-2008, 02:38 PM
You can't possibly be that dumb. America outlawed abortion for over 200 years untl a liberal-leaning Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that the Constitution somehow garaunteed a "right to kill our own offspring" in 1973.

No. Usually it was only illegal after "quickening", or after the baby's movements could be felt, usually about half-way through pregnancy (4-5 months along).

And Roe v. Wade was a 7-2 decision! Not 5-4

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

I shudder at the thought of people being this uninformed about the greatest issue of our times.

I love irony.

Frankie
10-14-2008, 02:47 PM
I love it when atheists go after religious folk.

I love it when religious folks call anyone questioning "religion" atheist.

BigRedChief
10-14-2008, 02:49 PM
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
damn thats good :clap:

Count Alex's Losses
10-14-2008, 02:52 PM
KCJohnny loves that evil prick McCain and that's all you need to know.

DaneMcCloud
10-14-2008, 02:54 PM
Abortion is murder, infanticide, that has been decided by secular philiosophers, Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars for millenia. I do not support as your post suggests "blind support for abortion" but conscienteous support for the unborn and their [potential] mothers.

You, not I must answer the question of your mother's values. Had she held yours, you might not be here today, as is the case for 45 million Americans ruthlessly murdered in what used to be the safest place on earth, the womb of our mothers. Now it is the most dangerous place on earth, thanks to the violence done to consciences that allow for abortion, and is eroding every vestige of decency and goodness left in America.

Those already born have a chance. That is beyond dispute. Those annihlated in utero have been restricted from ever even gracing our lives - and judgment is not sleeping. There will be an enormous price to pay.

Fortunately for the rest of us, it's no longer "legal" or allowed for Christians and the Catholic Church to murder people who think differently.

Bowser
10-14-2008, 02:57 PM
Hey Johnny, if I post some youtube vids of innocent Iraqi's getting blown to pieces, are you going to give up being a soldier?

Calcountry
10-14-2008, 03:18 PM
The stupid assed abortion issue has been nothing but divisive.
The fact that it was so instrumental in getting GWB elected is a pretty good indicator of how much bullshit it is.I wish your mom would have aborted you, then tell me how much bullshit it is.

Calcountry
10-14-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't give a shit one way or another about abortion law. I'm just saying it's bad for politics and the running this country.It's even worse for innocent unborn babies.

Calcountry
10-14-2008, 03:28 PM
A candidate that favors denying a womens right to chose is a deal breaker for myself.A woman's right to choose what?

To kill her baby?

Amnorix
10-14-2008, 03:29 PM
A woman's right to choose what?

To kill her baby?

What to do with her own body.

Bowser
10-14-2008, 03:38 PM
A woman's right to choose what?

To kill her baby?

What the fuck do you care what a woman does with her body? If in the end it really is murder in the eyes of god, it's her problem, not yours. You want to save somebody? Go save that crackwhore living in the dumpster down in the valley.

Saulbadguy
10-14-2008, 03:39 PM
What the **** do you care what a woman does with her body? If in the end it really is murder in the eyes of god, it's her problem, not yours. You want to save somebody? Go save that crackwhore living in the dumpster down in the valley.

Save the unborn! Fuck the homeless, the poor, the dying, the weak, the disabled!

bango
10-14-2008, 06:28 PM
I think that an abortion ends what will end up being a life. I do not think that it is right. I also do not think that KCJ should post propaganda like the videos on the first two pages that he did. This is a prime example of trying to push one's beliefs onto others. KCJ, please do not post things like that in the future. That is just not right and I doubt that this is the place for it. This comes from someone that is on your side in thuis case. As wrong as I feel abortion is if the majority of the people in this country then let them have it. It is very unfair and not right for us to make others follow our beliefs if we like it or not. I am at the point now of feeling like one of those people that I used to not like. I started attending church again a few months ago and have embraced it. I feel it involving itself in my political leanings. I feel that is wrong. This may be the last election that I vote in based soley on that fact. KCJ, those that do these things will pay for it if that is the case. It is not up to us and I am sure that you are aware of that. The women suffer mental anguish for the rest of their lives as a result of this. I think that is payment enough. They can not be coaxed into it. They make their own choices. The one that performs these, that is up to God. Not you or me. Also the poster that said that Jesus was a Socialist is pretty much correct. That is what I get out of it too. I always have. I do not agree with Socialism, but it does seem that Christ was a Socialist. I find that strange.

MahiMike
10-14-2008, 06:48 PM
That guy was pretty clever. Too bad he was an atheist. Hope he's better off wherever he is.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Save the unborn! Fuck the homeless, the poor, the dying, the weak, the disabled!

Hey buddy, the disabled obviously chose to be that way.

MahiMike
10-14-2008, 06:53 PM
...the poster that said that Jesus was a Socialist is pretty much correct. That is what I get out of it too. I always have. I do not agree with Socialism, but it does seem that Christ was a Socialist. I find that strange.

I don't find it strange at all. In fact, it's how I live my life pointing to WWJD. Our world would be much better if more people felt that way. It's also the thing that I can't figure out about religious conservatives. I can't see how they can be both. It's hypocritical. The 1st part of Carlin's video was dead on. Conservatives care more about the fetus than the person that comes out of it.

bango
10-14-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't find it strange at all. In fact, it's how I live my life pointing to WWJD. Our world would be much better if more people felt that way. It's also the thing that I can't figure out about religious conservatives. I can't see how they can be both. It's hypocritical. The 1st part of Carlin's video was dead on. Conservatives care more about the fetus than the person that comes out of it.

I think that I do get what you are saying. If we were more social regarding how we live our lives. I doubt that you mean a State making us social.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 06:58 PM
I love it when atheists go after religious folk.

Why?

jAZ
10-14-2008, 07:08 PM
Oh jeez!

Not another "George Carlin" thread!

:rolleyes:

Please use Snopes before posting this sort of crap!

jAZ
10-14-2008, 07:20 PM
Are you discounting the greatness of Carlin?

And you really think that's really Carlin!

ROFL

Snopes!!!!

Calcountry
10-14-2008, 08:14 PM
I don't find it strange at all. In fact, it's how I live my life pointing to WWJD. Our world would be much better if more people felt that way. It's also the thing that I can't figure out about religious conservatives. I can't see how they can be both. It's hypocritical. The 1st part of Carlin's video was dead on. Conservatives care more about the fetus than the person that comes out of it.It's pretty simple really. The government is an ungodly institution, governed by greedy men, serving their own self interests. They dole out our money to anybody with a palm up irregardless of whether they deserve it or not. Confiscatory taxes from the industrious and then redistributing it for, say planned parenthood since this is the topic, is anathema to us.

We don't want to pay for your socialism. Jesus' socialism required a pure heart, which, I am sure that if you all looked in the mirror, you would be found wanting on a lot of fronts. Shame on you all, for constantly judging others as if you had some sort of monopoly on morality.

When was the last time you talked to a homeless person? I did yesterday morning. This guy, I have known for years. He lived out of his car for about 4 years, then he hooked up with a woman, and was doing nice for himself, all calm, even called me out for cussing in front of him.

Then yesterday, he comes in and is talking all scattershod again, it reminded me of when he was out of his car. I asked him, you don't seem yourself, is everything o.k? He says he is back on the street, then tells me the story. I go, o.k., you had a fight and she through me out. To this he almost goes beet red and insists, that HE DIDN'T GET thrown out, but HE LEFT!

Tell me, why should my taxes go to support some arrogant dude like that?

If you are not willing to work, you don't deserve to eat. I believe that one is in the Bible also.

Don't preach to me, I have read the bible, and lived the bible most of my life. I have walked on the wild side for time as well, and have come to see the folly of it all.

I am sure, Jesus would ask all of you if you are happy with the life you have chosen for yourselves on this earth? Enjoy it, for the time on this earth is but a vapor.

Sully
10-14-2008, 08:22 PM
It's pretty simple really. The government is an ungodly institution, governed by greedy men, serving their own self interests. They dole out our money to anybody with a palm up irregardless of whether they deserve it or not. Confiscatory taxes from the industrious and then redistributing it for, say planned parenthood since this is the topic, is anathema to us.

We don't want to pay for your socialism. Jesus' socialism required a pure heart, which, I am sure that if you all looked in the mirror, you would be found wanting on a lot of fronts. Shame on you all, for constantly judging others as if you had some sort of monopoly on morality.

When was the last time you talked to a homeless person? I did yesterday morning. This guy, I have known for years. He lived out of his car for about 4 years, then he hooked up with a woman, and was doing nice for himself, all calm, even called me out for cussing in front of him.

Then yesterday, he comes in and is talking all scattershod again, it reminded me of when he was out of his car. I asked him, you don't seem yourself, is everything o.k? He says he is back on the street, then tells me the story. I go, o.k., you had a fight and she through me out. To this he almost goes beet red and insists, that HE DIDN'T GET thrown out, but HE LEFT!

Tell me, why should my taxes go to support some arrogant dude like that?

If you are not willing to work, you don't deserve to eat. I believe that one is in the Bible also.

Don't preach to me, I have read the bible, and lived the bible most of my life. I have walked on the wild side for time as well, and have come to see the folly of it all.

I am sure, Jesus would ask all of you if you are happy with the life you have chosen for yourselves on this earth? Enjoy it, for the time on this earth is but a vapor.

I wonder if that guy has some emotional or mental sickness.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 08:24 PM
George Carlin, patron saint of atheism.

bango
10-14-2008, 08:25 PM
It's pretty simple really. The government is an ungodly institution, governed by greedy men, serving their own self interests. They dole out our money to anybody with a palm up irregardless of whether they deserve it or not. Confiscatory taxes from the industrious and then redistributing it for, say planned parenthood since this is the topic, is anathema to us.

We don't want to pay for your socialism. Jesus' socialism required a pure heart, which, I am sure that if you all looked in the mirror, you would be found wanting on a lot of fronts. Shame on you all, for constantly judging others as if you had some sort of monopoly on morality.

When was the last time you talked to a homeless person? I did yesterday morning. This guy, I have known for years. He lived out of his car for about 4 years, then he hooked up with a woman, and was doing nice for himself, all calm, even called me out for cussing in front of him.

Then yesterday, he comes in and is talking all scattershod again, it reminded me of when he was out of his car. I asked him, you don't seem yourself, is everything o.k? He says he is back on the street, then tells me the story. I go, o.k., you had a fight and she through me out. To this he almost goes beet red and insists, that HE DIDN'T GET thrown out, but HE LEFT!

Tell me, why should my taxes go to support some arrogant dude like that?

If you are not willing to work, you don't deserve to eat. I believe that one is in the Bible also.

Don't preach to me, I have read the bible, and lived the bible most of my life. I have walked on the wild side for time as well, and have come to see the folly of it all.

I am sure, Jesus would ask all of you if you are happy with the life you have chosen for yourselves on this earth? Enjoy it, for the time on this earth is but a vapor.

Maybe it is simple for you. I do agree with what you said about socailism of the pure heart. I would like to know who you are talking about when you mentioned judging others. You talked about the corruption of Man's Government and then you talked about a corrupt man. I do not see how the corrupt goverment should not try to assist the corrupt man. He is one of those people with his palms held up. When did Jesus tell us to stop helping? At what point did he tell us to give up? Did he tell us to allow someone to starve because they are lazy or arrogant?

Programmer
10-14-2008, 08:27 PM
I admit I'm atheist, but I don't expect anyone else to be. So why do I get bombarded with the God crap? I expect a logical argument not one about religion.

You claim you don't expect others to be atheist, but you decry them mentioning God. You don't want to even hear the name of God, read your own posts. What amazes me is the fact that until you draw your last breath you are still on the lambs book of life, all you have to do is sincerely ask for forgiveness and it is granted. If you fail to do so before your last breath you earn your just reward.

Stay an atheist, but don't tell us we can't use our faith just because you don't have faith.

Nightfyre
10-14-2008, 08:39 PM
You claim you don't expect others to be atheist, but you decry them mentioning God. You don't want to even hear the name of God, read your own posts. What amazes me is the fact that until you draw your last breath you are still on the lambs book of life, all you have to do is sincerely ask for forgiveness and it is granted. If you fail to do so before your last breath you earn your just reward.

Stay an atheist, but don't tell us we can't use our faith just because you don't have faith.
I believe Mecca's argument is that our law is and should not be driven by any church(es) as the religious right zealots would have us do. Also, calling atheism a religion is a laugh. On the whole, this thread delivers.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I believe Mecca's argument is that our law is and should not be driven by any church(es) as the religious right zealots would have us do. Also, calling atheism a religion is a laugh. On the whole, this thread delivers.

I would agree, on the whole, but I would rather people would just say what they mean instead of constantly posting videos. Not very convincing, especially when you don't want to take the time to watch all those said videos (and I don't).

Logical
10-14-2008, 09:02 PM
There is nothing I nor anyone else who fears God need add.Why should anyone fear a loving God?

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:06 PM
George Carlin, patron saint of atheism.

No, he's more like the holy ghost.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:07 PM
I believe Mecca's argument is that our law is and should not be driven by any church(es) as the religious right zealots would have us do. Also, calling atheism a religion is a laugh. On the whole, this thread delivers.

Yep.

Atheism is a religion if off is a television channel. Or bald is a hair color.

Logical
10-14-2008, 09:10 PM
I love it when atheists go after religious folk.Who are the atheist you speak of? I don't know of very many on ChiefsPlanet. IJH maybe Hamas, not sure who else.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:12 PM
Who are the atheist you speak of? I don't know of very many on ChiefsPlanet. IJH maybe Hamas, not sure who else.

I bet he doesn't know the definition of the word.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:12 PM
Oh jeez!

Not another "George Carlin" thread!

:rolleyes:

Please use Snopes before posting this sort of crap!

And you really think that's really Carlin!

ROFL

Snopes!!!!


I have to be missing the humor here.

Logical
10-14-2008, 09:16 PM
I think that an abortion ends what will end up being a life. I do not think that it is right. I also do not think that KCJ should post propaganda like the videos on the first two pages that he did. This is a prime example of trying to push one's beliefs onto others. KCJ, please do not post things like that in the future. That is just not right and I doubt that this is the place for it. This comes from someone that is on your side in thuis case. As wrong as I feel abortion is if the majority of the people in this country then let them have it. It is very unfair and not right for us to make others follow our beliefs if we like it or not. I am at the point now of feeling like one of those people that I used to not like. I started attending church again a few months ago and have embraced it. I feel it involving itself in my political leanings. I feel that is wrong. This may be the last election that I vote in based soley on that fact. KCJ, those that do these things will pay for it if that is the case. It is not up to us and I am sure that you are aware of that. The women suffer mental anguish for the rest of their lives as a result of this. I think that is payment enough. They can not be coaxed into it. They make their own choices. The one that performs these, that is up to God. Not you or me. Also the poster that said that Jesus was a Socialist is pretty much correct. That is what I get out of it too. I always have. I do not agree with Socialism, but it does seem that Christ was a Socialist. I find that strange.This is so reasonable, I must applaud you.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Programmer
10-14-2008, 09:18 PM
I believe Mecca's argument are that our law is and should not be driven by any church(es) as the religious right zealots would have us do. Also, calling atheism a religion is a laugh. On the whole, this thread delivers.

What part of our laws is driven by religion? Our laws are developed by man. God's laws are not. The laws that religions follow are closely related to the laws of the U.S. because those men that formed the government saw benefit in the precepts of God's law.

What religious zealots are you speaking about wanting to drive the laws of the country?

Atheism is considered a religion by many. The funniest part of listening to Atheists would be to listen to them say they have faith in God.

So which brand of atheism do you subscribe to?

bango
10-14-2008, 09:18 PM
This is so reasonable, I must applaud you.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Thank you

Logical
10-14-2008, 09:22 PM
...
When was the last time you talked to a homeless person? I did yesterday morning. This guy, I have known for years. He lived out of his car for about 4 years, then he hooked up with a woman, and was doing nice for himself, all calm, even called me out for cussing in front of him.
....Perhaps he was speaking in tongues, you should have looked for a snake to translate for you.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 09:26 PM
No, he's more like the holy ghost.

Well either way, seems like he comes up in every religious thread.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:28 PM
Well either way, seems like he comes up in every religious thread.

Over half his material is religious in nature. He slams religion at about every corner possible.

His 10 commandments speech is iconic.

Having said that, I think the Kite Runner summed it up better: all commandments are a derivative of do not steal.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 09:30 PM
Over half his material is religious in nature. He slams religion at about every corner possible.

His 10 commandments speech is iconic.

Having said that, I think the Kite Runner summed it up better: all commandments are a derivative of do not steal.

Indeed, and thats why I don't find him to be particularly funny.

Haven't seen the Kite Runner, although I've heard good things.

irishjayhawk
10-14-2008, 09:35 PM
Indeed, and thats why I don't find him to be particularly funny.

Haven't seen the Kite Runner, although I've heard good things.

I think you might be addled in the brain if you don't find Carlin funny - even on his non-religious stuff.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 09:42 PM
I think you might be addled in the brain if you don't find Carlin funny - even on his non-religious stuff.

Well I've watched maybe 5 minutes total of his material, so I don't really have a lot to go on. I don't have any particular desire to remedy that, however.

Adept Havelock
10-14-2008, 09:47 PM
Well I've watched maybe 5 minutes total of his material, so I don't really have a lot to go on. I don't have any particular desire to remedy that, however.

Comedy, like Beauty, is in the eye of the Beholder.

Damn, he is seriously pissed.

Mr Luzcious
10-14-2008, 09:57 PM
Comedy, like Beauty, is in the eye of the Beholder.

Damn, he is seriously pissed.

LMAO Well played.

splatbass
10-14-2008, 09:59 PM
\
I shudder at the thought of people being this uninformed about the greatest issue of our times.

I think that 99 out of 100 people would say the greatest issue of our time is the biggest economic downturn since the depression. If affects far more peoples lives.

splatbass
10-14-2008, 10:10 PM
Atheism is considered a religion by many.

Many that don't know what they are talking about. A lack of belief in something cannot possibly be a religion. I don't believe in flying pigs, that doesn't mean it is a religion to me, it just means that I don't believe in flying pigs.

I'm not an atheist by the way, before you make any more assumptions. I'm a Deist.

Mecca
10-14-2008, 10:45 PM
I believe Mecca's argument is that our law is and should not be driven by any church(es) as the religious right zealots would have us do. Also, calling atheism a religion is a laugh. On the whole, this thread delivers.

Good summary of what I was saying...and he can counter with that doesn't happen but there are people that want it to. Take Huckabee's stuff about the constitution, the religious desire to tell everyone what to do and how they vote...

bango
10-14-2008, 11:00 PM
Not that I would defend Prgrmmr and he even disagrees with me on this, but I have heard it stated and I agree that it actually takes even more faith to be an Atheist than anything else.

RJ
10-14-2008, 11:07 PM
It's pretty simple really. The government is an ungodly institution, governed by greedy men, serving their own self interests. They dole out our money to anybody with a palm up irregardless of whether they deserve it or not. Confiscatory taxes from the industrious and then redistributing it for, say planned parenthood since this is the topic, is anathema to us.

We don't want to pay for your socialism. Jesus' socialism required a pure heart, which, I am sure that if you all looked in the mirror, you would be found wanting on a lot of fronts. Shame on you all, for constantly judging others as if you had some sort of monopoly on morality.

When was the last time you talked to a homeless person? I did yesterday morning. This guy, I have known for years. He lived out of his car for about 4 years, then he hooked up with a woman, and was doing nice for himself, all calm, even called me out for cussing in front of him.

Then yesterday, he comes in and is talking all scattershod again, it reminded me of when he was out of his car. I asked him, you don't seem yourself, is everything o.k? He says he is back on the street, then tells me the story. I go, o.k., you had a fight and she through me out. To this he almost goes beet red and insists, that HE DIDN'T GET thrown out, but HE LEFT!

Tell me, why should my taxes go to support some arrogant dude like that?

If you are not willing to work, you don't deserve to eat. I believe that one is in the Bible also.

Don't preach to me, I have read the bible, and lived the bible most of my life. I have walked on the wild side for time as well, and have come to see the folly of it all.

I am sure, Jesus would ask all of you if you are happy with the life you have chosen for yourselves on this earth? Enjoy it, for the time on this earth is but a vapor.


That's a good post and an interesting story.

Lots of people make decisions that are not in their best interests, like bunny's acquaintance. I doubt that government programs can do much about it. So how much money do you spend knowing that you'll help probably less than 10% of your target market?

splatbass
10-14-2008, 11:09 PM
I have heard it stated and I agree that it actually takes even more faith to be an Atheist than anything else.

That makes no sense, and sounds like something coming from a religious perspective.

Does it take faith not to believe in the tooth fairy? Does it take faith not to believe in Santa Claus? Does it take faith not to believe in pink unicorns? Why would it take faith not to believe in a god?

KCwolf
10-14-2008, 11:15 PM
thats your opinion.

I've looked inside myself and truly examined my motives and feelings and come to this opinion. If God wants to strike me down and punish me by sending me to the everlasting fires of hell then so be it.

I believe God is sending his message through the 2008 Chiefs Season......the punishment that makes U feel that you are in the everlasting fires of hell....

FWIW.....it's the women's right to choose......period. God or no God.

Guru
10-14-2008, 11:19 PM
When "life" begins is most defintely not been decided by all religions and all secular beings.

johny you have a right to your opinion and if I felt as you do I would be protesting every day in front of clinics. I just don't think "life" as we human beings know it begins at the moment of conception.

There is also the secular part where religious or moral beliefs are being forced on another citizen.

There is no right and wrong. Good vs. Eviel. There will always be different viewpoints on this issue.

I'm surprised anyone would say that. I would be curious to hear Taco's response to that with his theories though.

Taco John
10-15-2008, 12:20 AM
There is also the secular part where religious or moral beliefs are being forced on another citizen.

There is no right and wrong. Good vs. Eviel. There will always be different viewpoints on this issue.



There is a right vs. wrong - a good vs. evil. But in this issue, Christians aren't called to condemn - they're called to compassion.

KCJohnny, may be good intentioned, however he approaches this subject like a Pharisee and Saduccees in the Bible - and not as Christ did. He stands in condemnation of these troubled women, looking down upon them from his self-elevated perch of righteousness, without bothering to think of their misery - or the spiritual consequences that they are suffering.

I may be wholly wrong about my assumption here, but I've never once heard Johnny talk about all of the time he's spent witnessing to women who have had abortions and are living with the spiritual burden that they have placed upon themselves. I don't remember him talking about the time he put his arm around a crying woman and re-assured her that God forgives her, and calls her to accept His grace and sin no more.

Admittedly, neither have I. But I don't stand on a perch and add more misery by condemning these troubled women. Instead, I make the personal choice to respect life whenever and wherever I can - and that especially includes in matters of war. (I don't see any evidence for the concept of a righteous war in Christ's teachings)

I am presonally very much against abortion. I will vote against the practice if put on a ballot in my state. I think it's a despicable practice, and pity those who feel that this is their best option. But I have no authority to judge them in their actions, and have never been called to do so. The burden that they place on their own spirits is more than sufficient punishment as far as I'm concerned. If the people in my state deem it is a punishable offense by incarceration, so be it, but for me, I would opt for compassion - regardless of how much I disagree with their actions.


For my part, I don't believe that this issue belongs at the federal level. I think that this is a state issue, and should be handled at the state level. The Republican establishment disagrees, and for good reason. If this were to be taken away from the federal level and given to the states, they would lose a wedge issue that they use for close elections. Thus, the topic is pretty much moot. Republicans are never going to take this issue out of their pockets. They had the opportunity to correct this after they gained control of both houses of congress. Ron Paul even introduced a bill that would remove abortion from federal jurisdiction and give the issue back to the states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_the_People_Act). It, of course, never went anywhere. There's too much at stake for the Republicans with this issue to actually get anything accomplished.

Logical
10-15-2008, 01:11 AM
Many that don't know what they are talking about. A lack of belief in something cannot possibly be a religion. I don't believe in flying pigs, that doesn't mean it is a religion to me, it just means that I don't believe in flying pigs.

I'm not an atheist by the way, before you make any more assumptions. I'm a Deist.Oohhh sinner be cast out, a fellow Deist.

splatbass
10-15-2008, 01:25 AM
Oohhh sinner be cast out, a fellow Deist.

:)

Jenson71
10-15-2008, 01:32 AM
Why should anyone fear a loving God?

A good question. I think irishjayhawk knows the answer, because he was alluding to it after this post.

Fear = respect

Saggysack
10-15-2008, 02:00 AM
Fear = respect

Only for the weak.

bully mentality

Taco John
10-15-2008, 02:42 AM
Why should anyone fear a loving God?

They don't. Jesus never taught the fear of God. He portrayed God as a Heavenly Father, correcting the long held Jewish image of God as an angry, vengeful God who required bloody sacrifice to quench his thirst for the blood of repentance. This image of God was a superstitious farce. But it's important to note God didn't suddenly change. It was the understanding of God that changed through the revelation of Jesus.

There is no reason for anybody to fear God, nor is there any spiritual benefit in the spreading of this belief. Jesus taught that God is a benevolent father who embodies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are things that are of God. Any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT these things is spiritually empty and false.

Jenson71
10-15-2008, 03:29 AM
I agree with some parts of Taco John's post. It's hard to not come away from the Old Testament thinking the Israelites had a very barbaric interpretation of God. Especially when you read Job. God basically tells Satan to pick on Job. Poor Job, he was such a good guy too. And does God give Job (us) a reason for all the bad things? Hell no. He just says things like "Did you make the earth, the rivers, the mountains? Did you even come close to the greatness I have done?" It's pretty disheartening. There is no answer. No justification. Well thanks a lot, Yahweh.

But, you know, there aren't any easy answers. We don't get any answers. Still today, we get no answers. Jesus did not even explain this. That's something Bart Ehrman writes about in his latest book. Theodicy has turned a good number of believers into agnostics and even atheists. We want to know why. Why did my grandma get cancer? We don't get an answer.

Okay, back to the Jews. Fear is translated from a Hebrew word that can mean awe, honor, and respect. When the Jews "fear the LORD" in the Old Testament, they are really "respecting the LORD" or "honoring the Lord" - they are not crouching in the corner covering their faces.

And we should follow the example of the chosen people here. When we think of God, how can we not be filled with an overpowering sense of awe? Especially when in today's world, we think of awesome as being anything from torching ants with magnifying glasses and Dustin Colquitt punts.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 03:43 AM
They don't. Jesus never taught the fear of God. He portrayed God as a Heavenly Father, correcting the long held Jewish image of God as an angry, vengeful God who required bloody sacrifice to quench his thirst for the blood of repentance. This image of God was a superstitious farce. But it's important to note God didn't suddenly change. It was the understanding of God that changed through the revelation of Jesus.

There is no reason for anybody to fear God, nor is there any spiritual benefit in the spreading of this belief. Jesus taught that God is a benevolent father who embodies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are things that are of God. Any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT these things is spiritually empty and false.

Are you a reader of scripture or a writer?

Jesus Himself taught in Matthew 10:28

King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/matthew/10.htm)
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

bango
10-15-2008, 07:21 AM
That makes no sense, and sounds like something coming from a religious perspective.

Does it take faith not to believe in the tooth fairy? Does it take faith not to believe in Santa Claus? Does it take faith not to believe in pink unicorns? Why would it take faith not to believe in a god?

It takes faith because they believe that there is not anything at all. There are about two billion christians and almost one and a half muslims on the planet. Those two faiths alone account for about half of the population of earth. That does not even count all of the other faiths. Most of the people in this world believe in a God of some kind. All people believe in something even itf it is nothing at all.

BigRedChief
10-15-2008, 07:33 AM
There is a right vs. wrong - a good vs. evil. But in this issue, Christians aren't called to condemn - they're called to compassion.
I was talking about this issue only. There is right and wrong in the world. But on this issue you may think your right but I guarantee you theres some one of the other side just as adament with their oppoisite viewpoint.

tiptap
10-15-2008, 08:28 AM
It takes faith because they believe that there is not anything at all. There are about two billion christians and almost one and a half muslims on the planet. Those two faiths alone account for about half of the population of earth. That does not even count all of the other faiths. Most of the people in this world believe in a God of some kind. All people believe in something even itf it is nothing at all.

What if the tendency to believe in god has a survival aspect? The success of humans comes from being social. What if religion is able to bind groups larger than ever before in common practice that has a survival aspect. It doesn't have to be true. It may be that it is going against one's survival to disagree. In that respect it might be harder to "believe" in atheism.

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:34 AM
They don't. Jesus never taught the fear of God. He portrayed God as a Heavenly Father, correcting the long held Jewish image of God as an angry, vengeful God who required bloody sacrifice to quench his thirst for the blood of repentance. This image of God was a superstitious farce. But it's important to note God didn't suddenly change. It was the understanding of God that changed through the revelation of Jesus.

There is no reason for anybody to fear God, nor is there any spiritual benefit in the spreading of this belief. Jesus taught that God is a benevolent father who embodies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are things that are of God. Any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT these things is spiritually empty and false.

I agree. Thank you.

irishjayhawk
10-15-2008, 09:40 AM
They don't. Jesus never taught the fear of God. He portrayed God as a Heavenly Father, correcting the long held Jewish image of God as an angry, vengeful God who required bloody sacrifice to quench his thirst for the blood of repentance. This image of God was a superstitious farce. But it's important to note God didn't suddenly change. It was the understanding of God that changed through the revelation of Jesus.

There is no reason for anybody to fear God, nor is there any spiritual benefit in the spreading of this belief. Jesus taught that God is a benevolent father who embodies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are things that are of God. Any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT these things is spiritually empty and false.

I am extremely curious about your thoughts on Jesus with respect to socialism. You hate the latter and love the former, yet the former was a follower of the latter.

Programmer
10-15-2008, 09:47 AM
I think that an abortion ends what will end up being a life. I do not think that it is right. I also do not think that KCJ should post propaganda like the videos on the first two pages that he did. This is a prime example of trying to push one's beliefs onto others. KCJ, please do not post things like that in the future. That is just not right and I doubt that this is the place for it. This comes from someone that is on your side in thuis case. As wrong as I feel abortion is if the majority of the people in this country then let them have it. It is very unfair and not right for us to make others follow our beliefs if we like it or not. I am at the point now of feeling like one of those people that I used to not like. I started attending church again a few months ago and have embraced it. I feel it involving itself in my political leanings. I feel that is wrong. This may be the last election that I vote in based soley on that fact. KCJ, those that do these things will pay for it if that is the case. It is not up to us and I am sure that you are aware of that. The women suffer mental anguish for the rest of their lives as a result of this. I think that is payment enough. They can not be coaxed into it. They make their own choices. The one that performs these, that is up to God. Not you or me. Also the poster that said that Jesus was a Socialist is pretty much correct. That is what I get out of it too. I always have. I do not agree with Socialism, but it does seem that Christ was a Socialist. I find that strange.

You don't like KCJ's form of "progaganda" but are willing to listen to the other side of the argument all day long.

You need to provide some proof of Jesus being a socialist. I dont' see it that way, nor do I see Jesus as a community organizer.

You feel women that have an abortion and are suffering the rest of their lives have been punished enough. That one point is not for you to determine, it's not for any of us to judge. That decision and judgment is totally in the hands of God.

You make it sound like you only believe 'parts' of your religion. That's not anything more than an observation based on your comments above and you need to know that you are not alone. A very large percentage of people that go to church on a regular basis do not live by the doctrine of their church, they do not even follow the writings in the bible. Most say that a Christian that does not become 'perfect' as a Christian are hypocrites. That may be, but I challenge you to find a single human on this earth that does not commit a sin, as described in the bible, daily. I also challenge you to find a single citizen of the U.S. that never breaks any laws of the country. We are imperfect and being imperfect have no right to judge another. In KCJ's eyes abortion is totally wrong, in that point I agree. You damn him for putting videos on the board that show the ugliness of abortion but think an atheist commedian that perverts what is written in the Bible is OK.

Cronus agrees with your post, that one point should signal to you that your POV is not as righteous as you might think.

irishjayhawk
10-15-2008, 09:51 AM
You don't like KCJ's form of "progaganda" but are willing to listen to the other side of the argument all day long.

You need to provide some proof of Jesus being a socialist. I dont' see it that way, nor do I see Jesus as a community organizer.

You feel women that have an abortion and are suffering the rest of their lives have been punished enough. That one point is not for you to determine, it's not for any of us to judge. That decision and judgment is totally in the hands of God.

You make it sound like you only believe 'parts' of your religion. That's not anything more than an observation based on your comments above and you need to know that you are not alone. A very large percentage of people that go to church on a regular basis do not live by the doctrine of their church, they do not even follow the writings in the bible. Most say that a Christian that does not become 'perfect' as a Christian are hypocrites. That may be, but I challenge you to find a single human on this earth that does not commit a sin, as described in the bible, daily. I also challenge you to find a single citizen of the U.S. that never breaks any laws of the country. We are imperfect and being imperfect have no right to judge another. In KCJ's eyes abortion is totally wrong, in that point I agree. You damn him for putting videos on the board that show the ugliness of abortion but think an atheist commedian that perverts what is written in the Bible is OK.

Cronus agrees with your post, that one point should signal to you that your POV is not as righteous as you might think.

He consistently said give up everything to the poor and follow me. That fits both things.

Programmer
10-15-2008, 09:53 AM
They don't. Jesus never taught the fear of God. He portrayed God as a Heavenly Father, correcting the long held Jewish image of God as an angry, vengeful God who required bloody sacrifice to quench his thirst for the blood of repentance. This image of God was a superstitious farce. But it's important to note God didn't suddenly change. It was the understanding of God that changed through the revelation of Jesus.

There is no reason for anybody to fear God, nor is there any spiritual benefit in the spreading of this belief. Jesus taught that God is a benevolent father who embodies love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are things that are of God. Any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT these things is spiritually empty and false.

I agree. Thank you.

I would like for both of you to interpret what Matthew 10:28 says.

KJV - 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

English Standard Version - 28<WOJ>And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him<SUP> </SUP>who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Wycliff NT - 28 And do not ye dread them that slay the body; for they be not able to slay the soul; but rather dread ye him, that be able to destroy both soul and body into hell. [And do not ye dread them that slay the body; truly they be not able to slay the soul; but rather dread ye him, that be able to lose both soul and body into hell.]

Programmer
10-15-2008, 09:54 AM
He consistently said give up everything to the poor and follow me. That fits both things.

You need to read more to understand the context. Jesus said that to those that were wealthy because they loved money more than they did him.

Chiefnj2
10-15-2008, 10:08 AM
Fear = respect

Is this the Godfather?

Sully
10-15-2008, 10:09 AM
I would like for both of you to interpret what Matthew 10:28 says.

KJV - 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

English Standard Version - 28<WOJ>And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him<SUP> </SUP>who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Wycliff NT - 28 And do not ye dread them that slay the body; for they be not able to slay the soul; but rather dread ye him, that be able to destroy both soul and body into hell. [And do not ye dread them that slay the body; truly they be not able to slay the soul; but rather dread ye him, that be able to lose both soul and body into hell.]

Looks like the author of Matthew interpreted Jesus' teachings that they should fbe far more concerned with judgment from God more than judgment from man. Is that what you are getting out of it?

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 10:19 AM
He consistently said give up everything to the poor and follow me. That fits both things.

This is almost too stupid to reply to. Jesus supported the Ten Commandments which clearly endorse reverence for private property. Israel was ruled by Priests, not bureaucrats, and the Lord also observes, "the poor you will have with you always".

Socialism is a godless, atheistic, darwinist theory that has failed miserably on the world's stage (USSR, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq) and Jesus can not be associated with these heretical movements.

Jesus not only condemned actual murder (abortion) but even the willful feelings of hatred as murderous.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-15-2008, 10:21 AM
This is almost too stupid to reply to. Jesus supported the Ten Commandments which clearly endorse reverence for private property. Israel was ruled by Priests, not bureaucrats, and the Lord also observes, "the poor you will have with you always".

Socialism is a godless, atheistic, darwinist theory that has failed miserably on the world's stage (USSR, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq) and Jesus can not be associated with these heretical movements.

Jesus not only condemned actual murder (abortion) but even the willful feelings of hatred as murderous.

Socialism isn't communism, you stupid fuck. And Saddam's Iraq was not a communist country, you motherfucking retard.

Jesus, go huff some VX gas.

Sully
10-15-2008, 10:24 AM
This is almost too stupid to reply to. Jesus supported the Ten Commandments which clearly endorse reverence for private property. Israel was ruled by Priests, not bureaucrats, and the Lord also observes, "the poor you will have with you always".

Socialism is a godless, atheistic, darwinist theory that has failed miserably on the world's stage (USSR, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq) and Jesus can not be associated with these heretical movements.

Jesus not only condemned actual murder (abortion) but even the willful feelings of hatred as murderous.

Just curious.
Where is your degree from?

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Just curious.
Where is your degree from?

You go first.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 10:28 AM
Socialism isn't communism, you stupid ****. And Saddam's Iraq was not a communist country, you mother****ing retard.

Jesus, go huff some VX gas.

Here ya go, ChiefsPlanet: intelligent commentary and patriotic discourse at its best.

I think its funny that Mr. Jenkins who has never set foot in Iraq deigns to correct me on matters concerning the Ba'ath Socialist Party.

But please! Say more! This is enlightening.

Sully
10-15-2008, 10:28 AM
You go first.

I've got a Bach degree from UMKC in History.
I'm about 2/3 of the way toward my Master's in Ed from Avila University.

BigCatDaddy
10-15-2008, 10:41 AM
You sound like you'd be a big fan of socialism. Jesus was, after all.

I don't believe Jesus ever endorsed any type of government and tried at all cost to avoid be associated with politics. I can promise you he would have nothing to do with the politics of today. He would be a fan of the wealthy providing for the poor, but on their own accord and not something that was mandated by taxing them, since God is however a big fan of free will.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 10:44 AM
I've got a Bach degree from UMKC in History.
I'm about 2/3 of the way toward my Master's in Ed from Avila University.

And....what? You can study?

I have a bachelor's degree from Logos Christian College and Graduate School and am working on a Master's from Catholic Distance University.

Taco John
10-15-2008, 10:52 AM
Are you a reader of scripture or a writer?

Jesus Himself taught in Matthew 10:28


It's a nice "gotcha" when you rip it from the context of the teaching. But when you take the scripture in context, you'll note that the teaching isn't that you should fear God but (Matthew 10:31) "So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows."

Matthew 10:28 is not a passage about our need to fear God, but instead NOT fearing man.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 10:57 AM
It's a nice "gotcha" when you rip it from the context of the teaching. But when you take the scripture in context, you'll note that the teaching isn't that you should fear god but (Matthew 10:31) "So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows."

Matthew 10:28 is not a passage about our need to fear God, but instead NOT fearing man.

Wrong. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Proverbs 9:10. Jesus taught about hell very explicitly and the danger of manipulating His words:


And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You are not a theologian, not a Catechist, and do not even represent a reputable body of interpretation. Jesus assures us that those who do not receive the truth shall be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

vailpass
10-15-2008, 11:22 AM
Fortunately for the rest of us, it's no longer "legal" or allowed for Christians and the Catholic Church to murder people who think differently.

We wonder how you would define "legal".

Taco John
10-15-2008, 12:37 PM
Wrong. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Proverbs 9:10.

This is true. Fear is a natural reaction to the realization of God. But as the Proverb states, it's just the beginning. It's certainly not the end.




Jesus taught about hell very explicitly


Actually, no he didn't - not very explicitly at all. He referenced Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna), which was essentially the Jewish city dump where they would burn refuse and dead carcasses of animals and criminals. Jesus never spoke of the Jewish/Zoastrian (and later Catholic) concept of Sheol or Hades (what we now call "Hell"). One can only conclude that he avoided this purposefully.

Jesus spoke of no hellish torment for our souls. In fact, when you look at the context of what he was saying, it appears he was speaking literally of Gehenna, the city dump (not metaphorically). His warning to the Jews was "accept my teachings or face national destruction by the Romans, with your bodies being cast in Gehenna (the firey city dump)." This goes hand in hand with His proclimation that "no stone would be left standing" - the destruction of Jerusalem (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm).

Here are all the verses in which Jesus referenced Gehenna, which has been mistakenly translated to mean Sheol and Hades:

Matthew 5:21-22

Matthew 5:29-30

Matthew 10:28

Lk. 12.4-5

Matthew 23:15

Matthew 23:33

Matthew 8:12


...and the danger of manipulating His words


Indeed. People might get the idea that God wants to see His creation tormented for eternity, burning in firey ovens and being tortured by all manner of wicked beasts.


You are not a theologian, not a Catechist, and do not even represent a reputable body of interpretation.

What constitutes a theologian? Not that I care. I am a son of God, and don't claim to represent any "reputable" body of interpretation. The only thing I claim is that God is love, and any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT love is a false teaching.


Jesus assures us that those who do not receive the truth shall be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Ah yes, Matthew 8:12, where Jesus assues us that "the sons of the kingdom" will be cast into the outer-darkness (Gehenna) where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It must have been a horrible experience.

Don't mistake me, though. I do believe that there is a spiritual death for those who are evil. But there is no reason to believe that God is a tormenter. Certainly, Christ never taught of the spiritual Hell that Zoastrians, later Jews, and then later Catholics adopted.

Sully
10-15-2008, 12:39 PM
And....what? You can study?

I don't knwo what you mean, here.

I have a bachelor's degree from Logos Christian College and Graduate School and am working on a Master's from Catholic Distance University.
Interesting.
Thanks.

Sully
10-15-2008, 12:41 PM
This is true. Fear is a natural reaction to the realization of God. But as the Proverb states, it's just the beginning. It's certainly not the end.







Actually, no he didn't - not very explicitly at all. He referenced Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna), which was essentially the Jewish city dump where they would burn refuse and dead carcasses of animals and criminals. Jesus never spoke of the Jewish/Zoastrian (and later Catholic) concept of Sheol or Hades (what we now call "Hell"). One can only conclude that he avoided this purposefully.

Jesus spoke of no hellish torment for our souls. In fact, when you look at the context of what he was saying, it appears he was speaking literally of Gehenna, the city dump (not metaphorically). His warning to the Jews was "accept my teachings or face national destruction by the Romans, with your bodies being cast in Gehenna (the firey city dump)." This goes hand in hand with His proclimation that "no stone would be left standing" - url=http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm]the destruction of Jerusalem[/url].

Here are all the verses in which Jesus referenced Gehenna, which has been mistakenly translated to mean Sheol and Hades:

Matthew 5:21-22

Matthew 5:29-30

Matthew 10:28

Lk. 12.4-5

Matthew 23:15

Matthew 23:33

Matthew 8:12





Indeed. People might get the idea that God wants to see His creation tormented for eternity, burning in firey ovens and being tortured by all manner of wicked beasts.




What constitutes a theologian? Not that I care. I am a son of God, and don't claim to represent any "reputable" body of interpretation. The only thing I claim is that God is love, and any teaching that portrays God as anything BUT love is a false teaching.




Ah yes, Matthew 8:12, where Jesus assues us that "the sons of the kingdom" will be cast into the outer-darkness (Gehenna) where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It must have been a horrible experience.

Don't mistake me, though. I do believe that there is a spiritual death for those who are evil. But there is no reason to believe that God is a tormenter. Certainly, Christ never taught of the spiritual Hell that Zoastrians, later Jews, and then later Catholics adopted.

Very well said.
Thank you.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 12:54 PM
Very well said.
Thank you.So, sully, are you pro "womans right to choose"?

DaneMcCloud
10-15-2008, 01:00 PM
This topic is irrelevant in a political discussion, yet Republicans TRY to make it relevant during election year.

Roe V Wade will not be overturned. Period. And even if by the flukiest of all flukes, it IS overturned, more than 30 states already have legislation in place to allow abortions.

It's a complete non-issue.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:00 PM
So, sully, are you pro "womans right to choose"?

I think abortion is ugly. I despise that it's used as birth control by many people. I don't know when "life" begins, but in my ignorance to that fact (it's above my pay grade) I tend to think it's best seen as either beginning at conception, or at the initial heart beat.

That said, because of the ambiguousness of the topic...the pure lack of a consensus on when "life" begins, I don't think it's up to me to make others take part in my beliefs as far as it's concerned.

So, yeah...I guess I "support" them, in that I'm not violently anti-choice.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-15-2008, 01:01 PM
Here ya go, ChiefsPlanet: intelligent commentary and patriotic discourse at its best.

I think its funny that Mr. Jenkins who has never set foot in Iraq deigns to correct me on matters concerning the Ba'ath Socialist Party.

But please! Say more! This is enlightening.

Once again, socialism does not = communism, you motherfucking retard.

If you really think that Sunni Arabs are atheistic, or that their religion is the state, then you are the dumbest motherfucker who has ever walked the Earth.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 01:06 PM
I believe God is sending his message through the 2008 Chiefs Season......the punishment that makes U feel that you are in the everlasting fires of hell....

FWIW.....it's the women's right to choose......period. God or no God.Under current law, you are correct, she has the right to choose to give life to her unborn baby or to kill it and continue on with her life unhindered by the responsibilities of caring for her own flesh and blood.

Just look at that Kasey broad in Florida. How could a mother DO SUCH A THING, kill her poor innocent todler?

OMG, horrors???2211 Shock?11, I'm aghast, Greta Van Sustern go on the record with this soap opera.

Really, it isn't the moms RIGHT TO CHOOSE? Of course, if there is no moral absolute, of course it is.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Under current law, you are correct, she has the right to choose to give life to her unborn baby or to kill it and continue on with her life unhindered by the responsibilities of caring for her own flesh and blood.

Just look at that Kasey broad in Florida. How could a mother DO SUCH A THING, kill her poor innocent todler?

OMG, horrors???2211 Shock?11, I'm aghast, Greta Van Sustern go on the record with this soap opera.

Really, it isn't the moms RIGHT TO CHOOSE? Of course, if there is no moral absolute, of course it is.

The difference this argument ALWAYS fails to address is the fact that every reasonable person on this planet can agree that a child that is born, living outside their mother, is a living, independent being. That's quite a buit different from a fetus. You and I may believe it is a person...but MANY don't.

Donger
10-15-2008, 01:10 PM
a child that is born, living outside their mother, is a living, independent being.

Independent, eh? Does Jilly agree with that?

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:12 PM
Independent, eh? Does Jilly agree with that?

I mean "independent" in that the child is not recieving nourishment directly from the body of the mother. It is breathing its own oxygen, using its own reflexes to take in food. You know what I mean.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 01:13 PM
The difference this argument ALWAYS fails to address is the fact that every reasonable person on this planet can agree that a child that is born, living outside their mother, is a living, independent being. That's quite a buit different from a fetus. You and I may believe it is a person...but MANY don't.Moral relativism doesn't become you.

Of course, according to Kasey, it wasn't an independent being, it was a responsibility that impinged on her lifestyle.

You can't afford to take the chance with someone else's life, can you? Why not leave that up to God?

You do believe in God, don't you? Is he sovereign or not?

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:14 PM
You do believe in God, don't you? Is he sovereign or not?

Yes I do.
As far as I know, God hasn't weighed in on the abortion argument..or this would be a lot easier.

Donger
10-15-2008, 01:15 PM
I mean "independent" in that the child is not recieving nourishment directly from the body of the mother. It is breathing its own oxygen, using its own reflexes to take in food. You know what I mean.

Meh. Still just as dependent for the first months, just not inside the womb.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Meh. Still just as dependent for the first months, just not inside the womb.

I agree. However...like I said...the vast majority of people in the world can all agree that that child is a living person. That is not the case with a fetus.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 01:17 PM
I mean "independent" in that the child is not recieving nourishment directly from the body of the mother. It is breathing its own oxygen, using its own reflexes to take in food. You know what I mean.Yes, it also wakes itself up, cooks itself some food, wipes itselfs behind, takes itself to the grocery store and buys itself what it needs to survive.

When is it independent.

I could use your reletivist bullshit to condone an act against the child at any point.

Which this all begs the fundamental question, to which you conveniently wnat to escape, when? When does life begin? If you cannot answer that question, then shouldn't you err on the side of life, with a wide margin of error?

The same people who think it o.k. to waste a fetus, will stand out in the rain at a confessed heinous murderors execution and claim to be pro life, because he might be innocent, pathetic.

Donger
10-15-2008, 01:17 PM
I agree. However...like I said...the vast majority of people in the world can all agree that that child is a living person. That is not the case with a fetus.

I think that a fetus is a "living person." And I'm not anti-abortion.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 01:18 PM
I agree. However...like I said...the vast majority of people in the world can all agree that that child is a living person. That is not the case with a fetus.Why shoul that afford them any more rights? If they are inconvenient, throw them in the trash.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Yes, it also wakes itself up, cooks itself some food, wipes itselfs behind, takes itself to the grocery store and buys itself what it needs to survive.

When is it independent.

I could use your reletivist bullshit to condone an act against the child at any point.

Which this all begs the fundamental question, to which you conveniently wnat to escape, when? When does life begin? If you cannot answer that question, then shouldn't you err on the side of life, with a wide margin of error?

The same people who think it o.k. to waste a fetus, will stand out in the rain at a confessed heinous murderors execution and claim to be pro life, because he might be innocent, pathetic.


I believe it either begins at conception or at the first heartbeat...but I don't know for sure. I err on the side of life in all cases. But I don't for a second contend that my beliefs should be the rule of law. If that were the case this country would most likely be far more screwy than it is now.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:20 PM
I think that a fetus is a "living person." And I'm not anti-abortion.

I do, too.
And I am.

Sully
10-15-2008, 01:21 PM
Why shoul that afford them any more rights? If they are inconvenient, throw them in the trash.

I would be against this.

Dave Lane
10-15-2008, 01:29 PM
You'll have to find a different world, a different universe, an alternate version of reality then. God is, and there is nothing you can do about it.

God is the source of all life and the ultimate arbiter of what is just and equitable. Your arms are much too short to box with the Almighty, therefore he sends you fools like me to make you realize your sparring with me is unfruitful, how much moreso with the Creator of the Universe?

:) that maybe funnier than Carlin. The fact that people like KCJ exists makes dying almost a pleasant thought :)

Dave

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 02:00 PM
I believe it either begins at conception or at the first heartbeat...but I don't know for sure. I err on the side of life in all cases. But I don't for a second contend that my beliefs should be the rule of law. If that were the case this country would most likely be far more screwy than it is now.Thank you for sharing your position, you certainly didn't owe it to me in light of how I have been a complete asshole to you in the past.

The internet sometimes lends itself to swings of emotion rather than rational thought.

irishjayhawk
10-15-2008, 02:07 PM
This is almost too stupid to reply to. Jesus supported the Ten Commandments which clearly endorse reverence for private property. Israel was ruled by Priests, not bureaucrats, and the Lord also observes, "the poor you will have with you always".

Interesting, he also disregarded the Sabbath rule.

Moreover, he specifically says give up your worldly possessions to the poor and follow him.

Socialism is a godless, atheistic, darwinist theory that has failed miserably on the world's stage (USSR, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq) and Jesus can not be associated with these heretical movements.

Do not confuse things there. Socialism is not godless or atheistic or darwinist. While the godless/atheistic tendencies exist in socialism because the implementations thus far have been totalitarianistic, socialism is not inherently godless or atheistic. Russia, for example, was totalitarian in nature and they thought that NOTHING should be above the state. Since God (and hence religion) would be inherently above the state, it was done away with.

That's why people who argue that atheistic regimes have murdered millions in the 20th century are misleading you. Atheism and godlessness were implemented to keep the political structure - communism.


Jesus not only condemned actual murder (abortion) but even the willful feelings of hatred as murderous.

Point me to where Jesus talked about conception and life beginning at that point.

I'll wait.

Sully
10-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Thank you for sharing your position, you certainly didn't owe it to me in light of how I have been a complete asshole to you in the past.

The internet sometimes lends itself to swings of emotion rather than rational thought.

No problem.

Taco John
10-15-2008, 02:19 PM
Moreover, he specifically says give up your worldly possessions to the poor and follow him.


He specifically said that to a specific person, answering their specific question about their specific destiny.

irishjayhawk
10-15-2008, 02:27 PM
He specifically said that to a specific person, answering their specific question about their specific destiny.

So how are we to decipher what is said to the larger audience and what is said to each person he's talking to?

Again, figurative versus literal.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 02:37 PM
He specifically said that to a specific person, answering their specific question about their specific destiny.Nicely done.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 02:39 PM
So how are we to decipher what is said to the larger audience and what is said to each person he's talking to?

Again, figurative versus literal.Is He asking you to give up your possessions to the poor?

He has asked me to give burgers, and small coin from time to time. I gave a Thanksgiving dinner to some folks once. I have invited children into my home for thanksgiving dinner before, but this is all rubbish but for the unmerited act of grace that was given to me free of charge.

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I don't know why this subject is usually debated as being for abortion or against. I think we need to all agree that abortion when the mother feels it needs to take place should be done shortly after conception. These late term abortions are horrific. I don't know how anyone could do that to their own child.

Taco John
10-15-2008, 03:09 PM
So how are we to decipher what is said to the larger audience and what is said to each person he's talking to?



By using your brain. I know you don't believe that it's possible, but you can believe in God and operate your brain at the same time.

Bowser
10-15-2008, 03:17 PM
I don't know why this subject is usually debated as being for abortion or against. I think we need to all agree that abortion when the mother feels it needs to take place should be done shortly after conception. These late term abortions are horrific. I don't know how anyone could do that to their own child.

I agree. Additionally, abortion used as birth control is reprehensible.

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 03:32 PM
I agree. Additionally, abortion used as birth control is reprehensible.

Absolutely.

There needs to be a short term answer available to women for many reasons but to make the convenient killing of your child available to irresponsible women who let that child develop is an abomination and downright evil.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:06 PM
I don't know why this subject is usually debated as being for abortion or against. I think we need to all agree that abortion when the mother feels it needs to take place should be done shortly after conception. These late term abortions are horrific. I don't know how anyone could do that to their own child.I honestly don't know how a doctor could perform a late term abortion.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:07 PM
Absolutely.

There needs to be a short term answer available to women for many reasons but to make the convenient killing of your child available to irresponsible women who let that child develop is an abomination and downright evil.So when did it become a child, capable of development?

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 04:12 PM
I honestly don't know how a doctor could perform a late term abortion.

Easily the sickest thing I have ever seen.

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 04:15 PM
So when did it become a child, capable of development?

I understand the argument here but there has to be some kind of compromise and if I am going to make that it will be inside 30 days of conception.

You want to know the truth, I think we should pay women to not have kids. Every month you show back up at the clinic and test negative you get $100. Beats the hell out of what we are doing now paying them to have kids in an overpopulated world. Better yet get fixed, get 10k.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:30 PM
I understand the argument here but there has to be some kind of compromise and if I am going to make that it will be inside 30 days of conception.

You want to know the truth, I think we should pay women to not have kids. Every month you show back up at the clinic and test negative you get $100. Beats the hell out of what we are doing now paying them to have kids in an overpopulated world. Better yet get fixed, get 10k.I am fine with any compromise if it limits the number of abortions, don't get me wrong, but the the "womens right to choose" kool aid drinkers, sorry brchief, need to answer the question. It is not sufficient for me, to let someone off the hook with a life and death question like that. You have to be able to live with the decision, that's all.

I just want them to understand what they decided.

How is your boy by the way?

May God bless you for your "choice".

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:32 PM
I am fine with any compromise if it limits the number of abortions, don't get me wrong, but the the "womens right to choose" kool aid drinkers, sorry brchief, need to answer the question. It is not sufficient for me, to let someone off the hook with a life and death question like that. You have to be able to live with the decision, that's all.

I just want them to understand what they decided.

How is your boy by the way?

May God bless you for your "choice".er, your womans choice. ;)

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 04:35 PM
I am fine with any compromise if it limits the number of abortions, don't get me wrong, but the the "womens right to choose" kool aid drinkers, sorry brchief, need to answer the question. It is not sufficient for me, to let someone off the hook with a life and death question like that. You have to be able to live with the decision, that's all.

I just want them to understand what they decided.

How is your boy by the way?

May God bless you for your "choice".

He's awesome. I put a couple pics up in the picture forum of him awhile back. He is really tall and thin just like I was, maybe even more so. He passed his tests at Stanford again with flying colors. He can talk really well for his age. He is the best thing I ever did. I love that kid more than words can tell. Shame we didn't make it to a game this year.

How's everything holding up on your end?

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:57 PM
He's awesome. I put a couple pics up in the picture forum of him awhile back. He is really tall and thin just like I was, maybe even more so. He passed his tests at Stanford again with flying colors. He can talk really well for his age. He is the best thing I ever did. I love that kid more than words can tell. Shame we didn't make it to a game this year.

How's everything holding up on your end?One day at a time dude. The bus has been holding up remarkably considering that we are going through a "great depression" with only 6.1% unemployment.

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 05:00 PM
One day at a time dude. The bus has been holding up remarkably considering that we are going through a "great depression" with only 6.1% unemployment.

My business has been incredibly stressfull recently but there is a chance we may come out of this even stronger. We haven't lost a single client.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 05:11 PM
My business has been incredibly stressfull recently but there is a chance we may come out of this even stronger. We haven't lost a single client.As soon as Hussein wins, the media will immediately find all the silver linings in every forboding cloud that they were trumpeting up through the election.

bango
10-15-2008, 06:00 PM
You don't like KCJ's form of "progaganda" but are willing to listen to the other side of the argument all day long.

You need to provide some proof of Jesus being a socialist. I dont' see it that way, nor do I see Jesus as a community organizer.

You feel women that have an abortion and are suffering the rest of their lives have been punished enough. That one point is not for you to determine, it's not for any of us to judge. That decision and judgment is totally in the hands of God.

You make it sound like you only believe 'parts' of your religion. That's not anything more than an observation based on your comments above and you need to know that you are not alone. A very large percentage of people that go to church on a regular basis do not live by the doctrine of their church, they do not even follow the writings in the bible. Most say that a Christian that does not become 'perfect' as a Christian are hypocrites. That may be, but I challenge you to find a single human on this earth that does not commit a sin, as described in the bible, daily. I also challenge you to find a single citizen of the U.S. that never breaks any laws of the country. We are imperfect and being imperfect have no right to judge another. In KCJ's eyes abortion is totally wrong, in that point I agree. You damn him for putting videos on the board that show the ugliness of abortion but think an atheist commedian that perverts what is written in the Bible is OK.

Cronus agrees with your post, that one point should signal to you that your POV is not as righteous as you might think.

I was going to respond to this, but I have found out that I have been practicing Christianity the wrong way. I have to take time away from responding to your posts so that I can find out how to do it correctly. I would like to thank you and most of the other Christians for pointing that out to me. I have to say that I never knew that there was a proper way to believe. I am thankful also that you and the others helped me and were able to figure out what was wrong with the realationship between myself and God.

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Socialism isn't communism, you stupid ****.
The only difference is that one still has a state and the other's state has withered away because the people share alike voluntary having been perfected by the state first. They both end up in the same place. BFD! There's little difference and virtually no difference as to what socio-economic system it is. It's no wonder Marx, himself, the author of the Communist Manifesto used the two words interchangeably as did folks in the 19th century. But today it's Newspeak.

BIG_DADDY
10-15-2008, 06:18 PM
The only difference is that one still has a state and the other's state has withered away because the people share alike voluntary having been perfected by the state first. They both end up in the same place. BFD! There's little difference, it's no wonder Marx, himself, the author of the Communist Manifesto used the two words interchangeably as did folks in the 19th century.

Oh look Hamas is calling somebody stupid again. I guess he is alternating that with telling people to kill themself now. Nice guy.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 06:21 PM
The only difference is that one still has a state and the other's state has withered away because the people share alike voluntary having been perfected by the state first. They both end up in the same place. BFD! There's little difference and virtually no difference as to what socio-economic system it is. It's no wonder Marx, himself, the author of the Communist Manifesto used the two words interchangeably as did folks in the 19th century. But today it's Newspeak.As did Senator Joe McCarthy, whom by the way, is banging on his casket right now.

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 06:27 PM
Oh look Hamas is calling somebody stupid again. I guess he is alternating that with telling people to kill themself now. Nice guy.

My guess is that he is a communist, since he uses the euphemism of calling himself an anarcho-socialist. In being one it rattles his cage when others say it's the same thing. I mean it's not like anyone thinks this stuff all falls into the Stalinist camp.

Nevertheless, Hamas is a shining example of the left's tolerance and acceptance of diversity. Kinda like a Stalin at the level of thought anyway.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Oh look Hamas is calling somebody stupid again. I guess he is alternating that with telling people to kill themself now. Nice guy.Somehow Hamas reminds me of the angry German kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

Sorry, I don't know how to do that imbedding crap.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 06:32 PM
To Obots Marxist=racism

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 06:37 PM
Somehow Hamas reminds me of the angry German kid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

Sorry, I don't know how to do that imbedding crap.

Over in the upper right. You'll see the word "embed" under "url" (iirc doing from memory). There's a long coded in there. Just select all, or highlight all, then hit copy, then hit paste onto the forum.

( I use command A for all, then command c for copy, then command v for paste)

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 06:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 06:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA
OMG! I finally saw. Tourette's syndrome at play.

Like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBVmfIUR1DA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kBVmfIUR1DA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 06:55 PM
okay I saw your rep. Will do but let me make a screen save first.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 07:31 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XXaUS7pZAg0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XXaUS7pZAg0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 07:31 PM
okay I saw your rep. Will do but let me make a screen save first.This is so embarassing

DaFace
10-15-2008, 07:50 PM
This is so embarassing

Make sure you uncheck "automatically parse links in text" under the advanced reply box. That screws it up. I went ahead and fixed the one above for ya.

BucEyedPea
10-15-2008, 08:00 PM
I don't know what to say bunny, not being there.
I am on a Mac but it really shouldn't be that different or at all. Just your keyboard shortcuts for selecting all, cutting and pasting.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 08:10 PM
Make sure you uncheck "automatically parse links in text" under the advanced reply box. That screws it up. I went ahead and fixed the one above for ya.ty

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 02:50 AM
The difference this argument ALWAYS fails to address is the fact that every reasonable person on this planet can agree that a child that is born, living outside their mother, is a living, independent being. That's quite a buit different from a fetus. You and I may believe it is a person...but MANY don't.

Then how can you support Senator Obama?

In a Human Events article, “Obama More Pro-Choice Than NARAL” (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647), Amanda B. Carpenter writes:
“In 2002, as an Illinois legislator, Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush. Only 15 members of the U.S. House opposed it, and it passed the Senate unanimously on a voice vote…When the federal bill was being debated, NARAL Pro-Choice America released a statement that said, ‘Consistent with our position last year, NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act ... floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.’ But Obama voted against this bill in the Illinois senate and killed it in committee. Twice, the Induced Infant Liability Act came up in the Judiciary Committee on which he served. At its first reading he voted ‘present.’ At the second he voted ‘no….’ Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Stanek told me her testimony ‘did not faze’ Obama. In the second hearing, Stanek said, ‘I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!’ And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,’ she said.”

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 04:10 AM
Actually, no he didn't - not very explicitly at all. He referenced Gehenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna), which was essentially the Jewish city dump where they would burn refuse and dead carcasses of animals and criminals. Jesus never spoke of the Jewish/Zoastrian (and later Catholic) concept of Sheol or Hades (what we now call "Hell"). One can only conclude that he avoided this purposefully.

Jesus spoke of no hellish torment for our souls. In fact, when you look at the context of what he was saying, it appears he was speaking literally of Gehenna, the city dump (not metaphorically). His warning to the Jews was "accept my teachings or face national destruction by the Romans, with your bodies being cast in Gehenna (the firey city dump)." This goes hand in hand with His proclimation that "no stone would be left standing" - the destruction of Jerusalem (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jewishtemple.htm).

Don't mistake me, though. I do believe that there is a spiritual death for those who are evil. But there is no reason to believe that God is a tormenter. Certainly, Christ never taught of the spiritual Hell that Zoastrians, later Jews, and then later Catholics adopted.

Diminishing the seriousness of eternal damnation (http://www.bible-researcher.com/hell6.html)comes from the devil, not the Lord:


HELL

by R.C. Sproul

We have often heard statements such as “War is hell” or “I went through hell.” These expressions are, of course, not taken literally. Rather, they reflect our tendency to use the word hell as a descriptive term for the most ghastly human experience possible. Yet no human experience in this world is actually comparable to hell. If we try to imagine the worst of all possible suffering in the here and now we have not yet stretched our imaginations to reach the dreadful reality of hell.
Hell is trivialized when it is used as a common curse word. To use the word lightly may be a halfhearted human attempt to take the concept lightly or to treat it in an amusing way. We tend to joke about things most frightening to us in a futile effort to declaw and defang them, reducing their threatening power.

There is no biblical concept more grim or terror-invoking than the idea of hell. It is so unpopular with us that few would give credence to it at all except that it comes to us from the teaching of Christ Himself.
Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus. It is this doctrine, perhaps more than any other, that strains even the Christian’s loyalty to the teaching of Christ. Modern Christians have pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus’ own teaching. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die. These graphic images of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?

I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols.

A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.

No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we can take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.

Perhaps the most frightening aspect of hell is its eternality. People can endure the greatest agony if they know it will ultimately stop. In hell there is no such hope. The Bible clearly teaches that the punishment is eternal. The same word is used for both eternal life and eternal death. Punishment implies pain. Mere annihilation, which some have lobbied for, involves no pain. Jonathan Edwards, in preaching on Revelation 6:15-16 said, “Wicked men will hereafter earnestly wish to be turned to nothing and forever cease to be that they may escape the wrath of God.” (John H. Gerstner, Jonathan Edwards on Heaven and Hell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1573580880) [Orlando: Ligonier Ministries, 1991], 75.)
Hell, then, is an eternity before the righteous, ever-burning wrath of God, a suffering torment from which there is no escape and no relief. Understanding this is crucial to our drive to appreciate the work of Christ and to preach His gospel.
Summary

The suffering of hell is beyond any experience of misery found in this world.
Hell is clearly included in the teaching of Jesus.
If the biblical descriptions of hell are symbols, then the reality will be worse than the symbols.
Hell is the presence of God in His wrath and judgment.
There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice.
Hell is eternal. There is no escape through either repentance or annihilation.Biblical passages for reflection: Matthew 8:11-12 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matthew+8:11-12), Mark 9:42-48 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Mark+9:42-48), Luke 16:19-31 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Luke+16:19-31), Jude 1:3-13 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Jude+1:3-13), Revelation 20:11-15 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Revelation+20:11-15).


Jesus does teach hell and eternal punishment are indeed true:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
-Matthew 25:41-46

HMc
10-16-2008, 06:17 AM
One day at a time dude. The bus has been holding up remarkably considering that we are going through a "great depression" with only 6.1% unemployment.

Eh? You're under the impression that you've entered the depressed period?

What you may or may not have experienced is only the start of the contraction.

Sully
10-16-2008, 06:25 AM
Then how can you support Senator Obama?

Because I've heard the reason he voted against that bill. I agree with those reasons. They make sense.
Have you?

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:14 AM
Does anyone else think that McCain belittled women in the debate with his "health" comment about women during his abortion response?

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:22 AM
Does anyone else think that McCain belittled women in the debate with his "health" comment about women during his abortion response?

Nah, he just exposed the loophole's that using that phrase provides.

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:30 AM
Nah, he just exposed the loophole's that using that phrase provides.
uhhh Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land and the "health" of the mother is an intergral part of that law, not a loophole.

BucEyedPea
10-16-2008, 08:34 AM
uhhh Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land and the "health" of the mother is an intergral part of that law, not a loophole.

It's a loophole because of how they define health which includes mental health which can be "I'm stressed about having to be overweight for several months, so I have to kill it." Yeah! Health all right. Very loosely defined.

And RvW should not be law under the land if the language of the Constitution held sway more. Such moral matters and police powers always belonged to the states. Read the notes that went on between the justices on that decision and it was blatent politics.

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:37 AM
[QUOTE=BucEyedPea;5120905]It's a loophole because of how they define health which includes mental health which can be "I'm stressed about having to be overweight for several months, so I have to kill it." Yeah! Health all right. Very loosely defined.

QUOTE]

Exactly

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:40 AM
It's a loophole because of how they define health which includes mental health which can be "I'm stressed about having to be overweight for several months, so I have to kill it." Yeah! Health all right. Very loosely defined.

And RvW should not be law under the land if the language of the Constitution held sway more. Such moral matters and police powers always belonged to the states. Read the notes that went on between the justices on that decision and it was blatent politics.
BS. Morality has no business being dictated to us by governments.

As Obama said last night on certain issues like freedom of speech etc the Federal governement must step up and protect the citizens from a states attempt to take away their freedom.

Whether you agree or not the majority of Americans don't want to go back to the coat hangers in back alleys time frame in our history.

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:40 AM
uhhh Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land and the "health" of the mother is an intergral part of that law, not a loophole.

Just because something is the law of the land doesn't make it morally correct.

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:41 AM
Just because something is the law of the land doesn't make it morally correct.
Again, in your opinion.

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:41 AM
BS. Morality has no business being dictated to us by governments.



Sounds like something a slave owner may have said.

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:42 AM
Again, in your opinion.

Slavery, and women's right ring a bell? It's my hope as a society we also outlaw the barbaric practice of abortions, they way we corrected other horrible laws that were on the books in the past.

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:44 AM
Sounds like something a slave owner may have said.
huh?

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:48 AM
huh?

Huh? I'm sure they also didn't want the government dictating to them the immorality of owning a slave as property; after all it was the law of the land at one time. It's not rock science :)

BigRedChief
10-16-2008, 08:49 AM
Huh? I'm sure they also didn't want the government dictating to them the immorality of owning a slave as property; after all it was the law of the land at one time. It's not rock science :)
Man is that ever a bad analogy.:shake:

El Jefe
10-16-2008, 08:52 AM
The stupid assed abortion issue has been nothing but divisive.
The fact that it was so instrumental in getting GWB elected is a pretty good indicator of how much bullshit it is.

Oh my goodness. Maybe us Pro-Life people value life, so yes we wanted a President who protected the unborn.

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 08:57 AM
Man is that ever a bad analogy.:shake:

You said Gov't should not be legislating morality. That's exactly what happened with African American and women's rights. We are just behind on gay rights and rights of the unborn.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:10 AM
Sounds like something a slave owner may have said.

Exactly. Keep government out of private business (slave holding). Pro-abortionists are in denial of this (http://abortionno.org/).

This organization is travelling down the same road Harriet Beecher Stowe took to expose slavery with the earth-quake-causing Uncle Tom's Cabin (http://www.uncletomscabin.org/).

BigChiefFan
10-16-2008, 09:17 AM
Abortion is LEGAL. DEAL WITH IT.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:19 AM
Abortion is LEGAL. DEAL WITH IT.

Abortion is sin. Outlaw it.

BigChiefFan
10-16-2008, 09:23 AM
Abortion is sin. Outlaw it.Please quote scripture, that specifically states abortion is a sin.


Again, the law of the land, states abortion is LEGAL, you aren't anti-law now are you?

Sully
10-16-2008, 09:24 AM
Because I've heard the reason he voted against that bill. I agree with those reasons. They make sense.
Have you?

KCJohnny,
Are you going to answer my question?

tiptap
10-16-2008, 09:24 AM
and the Lord also observes, "the poor you will have with you always".


Jesus not only condemned actual murder (abortion) but even the willful feelings of hatred as murderous.

But he didn't say you would have the blind, hungry or infirmed always. So I take that as a challenge.

And hatred is all I hear from you or fear, toward your presumed enemies.

Mecca
10-16-2008, 09:27 AM
I personally could give a rats ass if it's a sin do you want to lock up gay people because the bible says that's a sin too?

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:28 AM
Please quote scripture, that specifically states abortion is a sin.


Again, the law of the land, states abortion is LEGAL, you aren't anti-law now are you?

You can't be serious? Murder is not sin? Even Martin Luther King cites the early Church as defenders of the unborn. From his Letter from a Birmingham Jail in 1963:


Martin Luther King, Jr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.). wrote in his letter from a Birmingham jail (http://almaz.com/nobel/peace/MLK-jail.html), “The early church put an end to such evils as infanticide (infant killing).”


Slavery was also the law of the land. Did that make it right?

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 09:30 AM
Abortion is LEGAL. DEAL WITH IT.

I'm sure that's what the slaves owners said as well. Yes, I'll keep throwing this in your face to show the fallicy in your arguement and statement.

BigChiefFan
10-16-2008, 09:32 AM
You can't be serious? Murder is not sin? Even Martin Luther King cites the early Church as defenders of the unborn. From his Letter from a Birmingham Jail in 1963:



Slavery was also the law of the land. Did that make it right?

So now you claim that we legalized murder? Yep, you're a loon.

BigChiefFan
10-16-2008, 09:33 AM
I'm sure that's what the slaves owners said as well. Yes, I'll keep throwing this in your face to show the fallicy in your arguement and statement.

Yes because a woman CHOOSING what to do is the same as being enslaved? Jeez, reach much?

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 09:34 AM
Abortion is sin. Outlaw it.


Pro-Life is not exclusive to Christianity. It doesn't matter if it's sin or not in my opinion, it's morally horrific, especially late term abortions. While I am a Christian, it does not take the bible to know something like this is disgusting.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:34 AM
I'm sure that's what the slaves owners said as well. Yes, I'll keep throwing this in your face to show the fallicy in your arguement and statement.

That level of trust in government is deeply troubling. Just because something is legal does not mean it is good. Government also said blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Darwinists said they were sub-human.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8510/funbornwf9.jpg (may be NSFW)

Sully
10-16-2008, 09:36 AM
KCJohnny,
Are you going to answer my question?

?

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2008, 09:37 AM
What about red meat on a friday? Tattoos? Planting a field with more than one type of crop?

Aren't these all punishable by death, KCKoresh?

BigCatDaddy
10-16-2008, 09:37 AM
Yes because a woman CHOOSING what to do is the same as being enslaved? Jeez, reach much?

A women or man should be able to choose to do with whatever they want with their life, including ending it, as long as it does not effect the life of another. I agree with Obama said in that their should be exceptions if the women's life is actually in danger.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2008, 09:38 AM
Darwinists said they were sub-human.

O RLY?

Katipan
10-16-2008, 09:38 AM
So now you claim that we legalized murder? Yep, you're a loon.

By definition murder is unlawful killing but we've certainly legalized killing. What do we call it? Justifiable homicide?

So call abortion justifiable homicide and I'm guessing it doesn't change the minds of those women making the choice. I think most of them accept the fact that they are potentially killing a living creation. It's just probably not very fun to say it out loud.

- Pro Justifiable Homicide

tiptap
10-16-2008, 09:50 AM
That level of trust in government is deeply troubling. Just because something is legal does not mean it is good. Government also said blacks were 3/5ths of a person. Darwinists said they were sub-human.

Darwinists said nothing of the kind. That was done by political hacks that misused biological theory. After all a Darwinist WANTS diversity. One can even make a case that our evolution was accelerated by the interbreeding of Cro Magnum and Neandethals. So please.

I do have a question about your pictures. Is the fetus a dwarf or is it meant to be a picture of a dismembered fetus?

Mecca
10-16-2008, 09:52 AM
I enjoy how what I said gets ignored...that one isn't a something you wanna talk about eh?

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:57 AM
Darwinists said nothing of the kind. That was done by political hacks that misused biological theory. After all a Darwinist WANTS diversity. One can even make a case that our evolution was accelerated by the interbreeding of Cro Magnum and Neandethals. So please.

I do have a question about your pictures. Is the fetus a dwarf or is it meant to be a picture of a dismembered fetus?

Really? (http://http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/fischer/080307)

This puts Obama far from the spirit of Martin Luther King, Jr., who in his famous Letter from a Birmingham Jail referred to the historic truth that "the early church put an end to such evils as infanticide." What Rev. King describes as an evil Sen. Obama thinks of as a constitutional right.

Historian and blogger Clayton Cramer some time ago excerpted a quote from the evolutionary textbook from which John Scopes of the legendary Scopes Monkey Trial taught.

Remember now that this is the point of view Clarence Darrow was defending with such vigor:

"The Races of Man. — At the present time there exist upon the earth five races or varieties of man, each very different from the other in instincts, social customs, and, to an extent, in structure. There are the Ethiopian or negro type, originating in Africa; the Malay or brown race, from the islands of the Pacific; the American Indian; the Mongolian or yellow race, including the natives of China, Japan, and the Eskimos; and finally, the highest type of all, the caucasians (sic), represented by the civilized white inhabitants of Europe and America." (Hunter's Civic Biology, p. 195-196; emphasis added)

Social Darwinists embraced Darwin's own view that white Europeans were the most highly evolved element of the human race, and were destined, due to natural selection and survival of the fittest, to "exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world." Heil, Hitler!

splatbass
10-16-2008, 09:57 AM
Abortion is sin. Outlaw it.

Sin is a religious concept, not a legal one. We should always keep religion and government as far apart as possible.

Sully
10-16-2008, 09:58 AM
KCJohnny,
Are you going to answer my question?

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:59 AM
I do have a question about your pictures. Is the fetus a dwarf or is it meant to be a picture of a dismembered fetus?

You tell me.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/11/photo17yq7.jpg (may be NSFW)

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 09:59 AM
Sin is a religious concept, not a legal one. We should always keep religion and government as far apart as possible.

Murder is a legal concept.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2008, 09:59 AM
Social Darwinism isn't Evolutionary Darwinism, you ignorant motherfucker.

Mecca
10-16-2008, 10:00 AM
Sin is a religious concept, not a legal one. We should always keep religion and government as far apart as possible.

I agree 100%, don't tell the zealots like Johnny that though.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2008, 10:00 AM
Goddammit.

There, that's a sin. Arrest me.

splatbass
10-16-2008, 10:01 AM
You can't be serious? Murder is not sin? Even Martin Luther King cites the early Church as defenders of the unborn. From his Letter from a Birmingham Jail in 1963:



Slavery was also the law of the land. Did that make it right?

He said "infanticide", not abortion. There is a difference. Infanticide is killing babies. Already born babies. Abortion is killing fetuses. Not yet born fetuses.

Mecca
10-16-2008, 10:01 AM
I jerked off while watching porn earlier, arrest me too.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 10:03 AM
Social Darwinism isn't Evolutionary Darwinism, you ignorant mother****er.

You speak with no authority on Darwinism as a cosmogony.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 10:04 AM
He said "infanticide", not abortion. There is a difference. Infanticide is killing babies. Already born babies. Abortion is killing fetuses. Not yet born fetuses.

Pay close attention here, folks. This is what is fueling the abortion mills in America.

splatbass
10-16-2008, 10:04 AM
Murder is a legal concept.

Yes, it is. And legally abortion is not murder. Just because you choose to call it that doesn't make it so. If you want to talk about "legal", murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a person. Abortion is not unlawful, and therefore cannot legally be murder.

splatbass
10-16-2008, 10:05 AM
Pay close attention here, folks. This is what is fueling the abortion mills in America.

Pay close attention here folks. This is an extremist.

Mecca
10-16-2008, 10:06 AM
Abortion mills lol....