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View Full Version : Elections Why the Weather Underground/Ayers association matters


KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 07:02 AM
Unless you understand the heresy of Liberation Theology - that theology proclaimed by Jeremiah Wright and James Cone - the Ayers relationship seems like guilt by association (to Obama supporters). Liberation theology embraces armed revolution as a tool in the hand of God that he uses to achieve justice for the oppressed. Therefore, in liberation theology acts of terror can be justified as a legitimate way to achieve "change" that brings about the deposition of the 'oppressive regime' and loots it on behalf of the people. Below is a chronology of Weather Underground activities that are chronicled and sourced.

link to below list (http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/blog/2008/10/14/ayers-bombing-victim-questions-obamas-startling-lack-of-judg.html#comments)
Not sure how old you are, but it sounds like you need some history lessons on what the Weather Underground stood for. Their primary goal was to sabatoge the US Government through violence and bombing. They terrorized government agencies for years by threatening to bomb them and succeeded in doing so. They were labeled as terrorists by the Government and Dohrn was on the 10 most wanted list and called the most dangerous woman in America. Ayers and Dohrn were the founding members of the Weather Underground. They were at war with our country.


The primary repsonsibility of the POTUS is to protect and defend US citizens from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. It is evident from Obama's long term relationship with Ayers and Dohrn that he either doesn't know what an enemy of America is or that he doesn't care.
10/7/69 Bombing of Haymarket Police Statue in Chicago, as "kickoff" for the "Days of Rage" riots in the city
10/8/69 "Days of Rage" riots in Chicago in which 287 Weatherman members were arrested and a large amount of property damage was done
10/6/69 Bombing of Chicago Police cars parked in a precinct parking lot
12/27/69 Weathermen hold "War Council" where they finalize plans to submerge into an underground status from which they plan to commit strategic acts of sabotage against the government. Thereafter they are called the "Weather Underground Organization" WUO. Dohrn raised three fingers in a "fork salute" to CHARLES MANSON, whom she proposed as a revolutionary inspiration. She went on to joke about Manson's victims and dubbed them the "Tate Eight" after Sharon Tate, the pregnant actress whom members of the Manson tribe stabbed in the womb with a fork. "Dig it," said Dohrn at the time. "First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim's stomach! Wild!"
1969 Ayers attempted to extort money from the Vietnam Moratorium Committee -- demanding $20,000 to abstain from violence during a planned peace protest. After rejecting this demand, a member of the Moratorium group asked Ayers what he really wanted. "To kill all rich people," Ayers responded. When another peace activist pointed out that Ayers himself came from wealth, the radical answered with an angry slogan: "Bring the war home. Kill your parents."
2/13/70 Bombing of Berkeley CA police vehicles
2/16/70 Bombing of Golden Gate Park branch of San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen
3/6/70 Bombing 13th Police District of the Detroit PD. 34 sticks of dynamite are discovered
3/6/70 "bomb factory" located in Greenwich Village explodes. WUO members die. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, NJ that night. The bomb was packed with nails TO INFILICT MAXIMUM CASUALTIES UPON DETONATION
3/30/70 Chicago Police discover WUO "bomb factory" on Chicago's north side. Subsequent discovery of a WUO "weapons cache" in a south side Chicago
5/10/70 Bombing of The National Guard Association building in Washington, D.C.
5/21/70 WUO under Bernardine Dohrn's name releases its "Declaration of a State of War" communique
6/6/70 WUO sends letter claiming credit for bombing of San Francisco Hall of Justice; however, no explosion actually took place. Months later, workmen in this building located an unexploded device which had been dormant for some time
6/9/70 Bombing of New York City Police Headquarters
7/27/70 Bombing of The Presidio army base in San Francisco.[NYT 7/27/70]
9/12/70 WUO helps Timothy Leary break out and escape from the CA Men's Colony prison
10/8/70 Bombing of Marin County courthouse [NYT 8/10/70]
10/10/70 Bombing of Queens traffic-court building [NYT 10/10/70]
10/14/70 Bombing of The Harvard Center for International Affairs [NYT 10/14/70]
3/1/71 Bombing of The United States Capitol[NYT 3/2/71]
4/71 abandoned WUO "bomb factory" discovered in San Francisco
8/29/71 Bombing of the Office of California Prisons [LAT 8/29/71]
9/17/71 Bombing of The New York Department of Corrections in Albany, NY [NYT 9/18/71]
10/15/71 Bombing of William Bundy's office in the MIT research center.[NYT 10/16/71]
5/19/72 Bombing of The Pentagon[NYT, 5/19/72]
5/18/73 Bombing of the 103rd Police Precinct in NY
9/28/73 Bombing of ITT headquarters in NY and Rome, Italy .[NYT 9/28/73]
3/6/74 Bombing of the Dept. of Health, Education and Welfare in San Francisco
5/31/74 Bombing of The Office of the CA Attorney General.
6/17/74 Bombing of Gulf Oil's Pittsburgh headquarters
9/11/74/ Bombing of Anaconda Corporation
1/29/75 Bombing of State Department
6/16/75 Bombing of Banco de Ponce in NY
9/75 Bombing of Kennecott Corporation
10/20/81 Brinks robbery in which several members of the Weather Underground stole over $1 million from a Brinks armored car near Nyack, NY. The robbers murdered 2 police officers and 1 Brinks guard. Several others were seriously wounded.
1991 "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. America is a great country," Ayers said when interviewed by David Horowitz.
1995 Ayers starts The Chicago Annenberg Challenge
1995 - 1999 Obama serves as Chairman of Chicago Annenberg Challenge
1995- 2001 Obama serves on the Board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
1995 Obama campaign event held at Ayers/Dohrn house
1997 Ayers and Obama serve on a University of Chicago panel entitled, "Should a child ever be called a 'super predator?"
1997 Obama cites Ayers critique of the juvenile justice system in a Chicago Tribune article
1999 - 2001 Obama continues to serve on the Board of Chicago Annenberg Challenge
1999-2002 Obama and Ayers serve as paid directors on Woods Fund Board of Directors together
4/2/2001 Obama accepts campaign contribution from Ayers and, after 9/11 never returned the money
9/11/2001 "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ''I don't want to discount the possibility,'' he said. Ayers quoted in NYT article
4/20/2002 Ayers and Obama serve on panel together called "Intellectuals in Times of Crisis" oganized by Michelle Obama
2005 Maria Warren who was present at the 1995 campaign event in Ayers home writes about Obama in her blog: "They were launching him — introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.”
4/16/2008 During Presidential Debate, Obama defends/describes Ayers as "a guy who lives in my neighborhood, a professor of English in Chicago, that I don't exchange ideas with"

Mecca
10-15-2008, 07:06 AM
It matters so much that its making McCains poll numbers worse.

phisherman
10-15-2008, 07:11 AM
it must be eating johnny up.

not only do we not listen to his crap, apparently the rest of the country isn't either.

it's OK, he'll sit in his righteous throne and pass judgement on us sinners.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 07:13 AM
LMAO

Johnny maybe you haven't figured it out yet but no one cares about Ayers except the kooks.

Also that 9/11 quote has already been debunked. Ayers did an interview months earlier and said that quote it just happened to be published on 9/11. Get your facts straight next time.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 08:05 AM
The only difference between Ayers and McVeigh is tenure. Ayers is a piece of shit and anybody who would mingle in the same room with him without punching him in the nuts doesn't deserve an ounce of respect.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 08:29 AM
The only difference between Ayers and McVeigh is tenure. Ayers is a piece of shit and anybody who would mingle in the same room with him without punching him in the nuts doesn't deserve an ounce of respect.

Obots know no respect toward person, place or property anymore, it shows in who they back and associate with.

Sully
10-15-2008, 08:32 AM
Middle America!!!!!
Small Town Values!!!!!

Pitt Gorilla
10-15-2008, 08:32 AM
Obots know no respect toward person, place or property anymore, it shows in who they back and associate with.That's a pretty broad statement with no evidence to support it. I'm not saying you are lying, but I doubt even you believe this.

phisherman
10-15-2008, 08:33 AM
that's got to be one of the stupidest things i've ever heard.

i guess all the repub backers associate with only people of the highest moral character.

this guilt by association crap is getting SO old.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 08:34 AM
Obots know no respect toward person, place or property anymore, it shows in who they back and associate with.

You don't question your faith in the Messiah, you just lace up your shoes and march lock step in line.

penchief
10-15-2008, 08:35 AM
Obots know no respect toward person, place or property anymore, it shows in who they back and associate with.

pot, meet kettle.

penchief
10-15-2008, 08:41 AM
You don't question your faith in the Messiah, you just lace up your shoes and march lock step in line.

Don't you mean your messiah, Sarah Palin? The self-righteous one who throws stones from her glass mansion on the hill?

There is so much more guilt by association relating to McCain and Palin than there is with Obama. It's just that the NObots are so blinded by hatred that they aren't willing to look in the mirror.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 08:41 AM
that's got to be one of the stupidest things i've ever heard.

i guess all the repub backers associate with only people of the highest moral character.

this guilt by association crap is getting SO old.

Obama's not guilty of bombing anything by association, it's that Obama is guilty of believing Ayers' actions don't warrant, at the very least, his marginalization from political discourse. Rather Obama, in an act of stupidity or political expediency, chose to associate himself with some of the biggest pieces of shit to further his own political career. It's clearly demonstrated from Ayers to Wright to Axelrod but somehow Obama gets a pass on this crap because libs are constantly downplaying the issue. It's not a small thing, Ayers is the left's McVeigh and Wright is the left's David Duke. This is not guilt by association, it's Obama's implied endorsement of the value systems they hold by keeping them in his political circle. If he says he didn't know heis either lying or extraordinarily stupid. If he did know it's either that he's a snake in the grass user or he endorses their worldviews to some extent. Either way it raises serious issues regarding his vision of America now and moving forward and his constant refusal and the eagerness of his supporters to downplay and obfuscate the issues while marginalizing those who bring them up only further illustrates the true gravity of these associations.

Obama's no agent of change. He's the same stuffed suit politician seeking his own grandiosity as any other. It's just that he sells his brand of bullshit and snake oil a little better right now.

Pitt Gorilla
10-15-2008, 08:41 AM
You don't question your faith in the Messiah, you just lace up your shoes and march lock step in line.Actually, that explains a lot.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 08:49 AM
Obots know no respect toward person, place or property anymore, it shows in who they back and associate with.

**** YOU POS. I Served this country honorably did you ****ing douchebag?

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 08:50 AM
pot, meet kettle.
Uh, what was that lil tea pot ?

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 08:55 AM
Obama's not guilty of bombing anything by association, it's that Obama is guilty of believing Ayers' actions don't warrant, at the very least, his marginalization from political discourse. Rather Obama, in an act of stupidity or political expediency, chose to associate himself with some of the biggest pieces of shit to further his own political career. It's clearly demonstrated from Ayers to Wright to Axelrod but somehow Obama gets a pass on this crap because libs are constantly downplaying the issue. It's not a small thing, Ayers is the left's McVeigh and Wright is the left's David Duke. This is not guilt by association, it's Obama's implied endorsement of the value systems they hold by keeping them in his political circle. If he says he didn't know heis either lying or extraordinarily stupid. If he did know it's either that he's a snake in the grass user or he endorses their worldviews to some extent. Either way it raises serious issues regarding his vision of America now and moving forward and his constant refusal and the eagerness of his supporters to downplay and obfuscate the issues while marginalizing those who bring them up only further illustrates the true gravity of these associations.

Obama's no agent of change. He's the same stuffed suit politician seeking his own grandiosity as any other. It's just that he sells his brand of bullshit and snake oil a little better right now.

Well said.
:bravo:

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 08:57 AM
**** YOU POS. I Served this country honorably did you ****ing douchebag?

Stop brow beating us with your military service!!!!

:deevee:

Do you think that makes you better than us?????

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 08:57 AM
that's got to be one of the stupidest things i've ever heard.

i guess all the repub backers associate with only people of the highest moral character.

this guilt by association crap is getting SO old.

Tell you what. When you find a republican politician that palls around with known, unrepentant terrorists, donít vote for them.

phisherman
10-15-2008, 08:57 AM
Obama's not guilty of bombing anything by association, it's that Obama is guilty of believing Ayers' actions don't warrant, at the very least, his marginalization from political discourse. Rather Obama, in an act of stupidity or political expediency, chose to associate himself with some of the biggest pieces of shit to further his own political career. It's clearly demonstrated from Ayers to Wright to Axelrod but somehow Obama gets a pass on this crap because libs are constantly downplaying the issue. It's not a small thing, Ayers is the left's McVeigh and Wright is the left's David Duke. This is not guilt by association, it's Obama's implied endorsement of the value systems they hold by keeping them in his political circle. If he says he didn't know heis either lying or extraordinarily stupid. If he did know it's either that he's a snake in the grass user or he endorses their worldviews to some extent. Either way it raises serious issues regarding his vision of America now and moving forward and his constant refusal and the eagerness of his supporters to downplay and obfuscate the issues while marginalizing those who bring them up only further illustrates the true gravity of these associations.

Obama's no agent of change. He's the same stuffed suit politician seeking his own grandiosity as any other. It's just that he sells his brand of bullshit and snake oil a little better right now.

you know as well as i do that there is nothing that obama or anyone can say that will make YOU feel better.

here's a quick one for you, G. Gordon Liddy hatched a plot to firebomb the Brookings Institution in DC, he's a convicted felon, and has said on national radio that if the ATF comes with guns, to shoot them in the head. John McCain is a good friend of this guy; here's a mccain quote, "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family... It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

if that's not guilt by association, I don't know what is.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 08:58 AM
Stop brow beating us with your military service!!!!

:deevee:

Do you think that makes you better than us?????

No it doesn't. I just don't want someone telling me I have no respect for my country just because I am voting for Obama.

It is BS and you know it.

jAZ
10-15-2008, 08:59 AM
If it clearly matter so much, you'd think you could answer that question in one succinct sentence.

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:00 AM
Well said.
:bravo:

Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:00 AM
Tell you what. When you find a republican politician that palls around with known, unrepentant terrorists, donít vote for them.

Like Liddy?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:00 AM
Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

He doesn't because his gay lovers Hannity and Rush told him not to worry about it

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Uh, what was that lil tea pot ?

You heard me, NObot.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:01 AM
**** YOU POS. I Served this country honorably did you ****ing douchebag?


Then you should have a problem with Ayers and the dirty associates Obama hangs with .

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:02 AM
Tell you what. When you find a republican politician that palls around with known, unrepentant terrorists, donít vote for them.

Yeah, its not like terrorists are a current threat or anything, right? Or Liberation Theology a threat to leaders who pal around with terrorists? Senator Obama wouldn't consort with those who trample our flag while we are at war with terrorists now, would he?

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/Ayerssucks.jpg

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:02 AM
Then you should have a problem with Ayers and the dirty associates Obama hangs with (But not Liddy and the dirty associates [insert Republican candidate here] hangs out with.

Fixed.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:03 AM
He doesn't because his gay lovers Hannity and Rush told him not to worry about it

Insightful political commentary. Only here at ChiefsPlanet.

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 09:04 AM
Like Liddy?

Ok, donít vote for him. Does that justify your vote for Barry Hussein?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:04 AM
Then you should have a problem with Ayers and the dirty associates Obama hangs with .

Why because you told me so?

If I thought Obama was a muslim terrorist who hates whites and wants to destroy the US you would have a point. But he doesn't so fuck off

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:05 AM
Ok, donít vote for him. Does that justify your vote for Barry Hussein?

No.
All the things I agree with him on do, though.

bkkcoh
10-15-2008, 09:06 AM
The only difference between Ayers and McVeigh is tenure. Ayers is a piece of shit and anybody who would mingle in the same room with him without punching him in the nuts doesn't deserve an ounce of respect.


One other difference, McVeigh paid the price for his actions by being put to death.

Ayers seems to be just as guilty as McVeigh ever was and openly admits that he was guilty and isn't even in jail.

McVeigh <> Ayers

LMAO

Johnny maybe you haven't figured it out yet but no one cares about Ayers except the kooks.

Also that 9/11 quote has already been debunked. Ayers did an interview months earlier and said that quote it just happened to be published on 9/11. Get your facts straight next time.

Does it really make any difference when he made the comments, the problem should have been the comments that he made.

..

Obama's no agent of change. He's the same stuffed suit politician seeking his own grandiosity as any other. It's just that he sells his brand of bullshit and snake oil a little better right now.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Insightful political commentary. Only here at ChiefsPlanet.

I noticed you dodged the question about McCain hiring a Saddam lobbyist.

I am sure you are happy about this aren't you Johnny?

All those Americans dying in Iraq and McCain goes and hires a person that tried to get Saddam off the hook.

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:08 AM
Then you should have a problem with Ayers and the dirty associates Obama hangs with .

And you should have a problem with the Todd Palin, G. Gordon Liddy, and William Timmons. But you don't. And that says a lot about your objectivity.

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:10 AM
Insightful political commentary. Only here at ChiefsPlanet.

Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 09:11 AM
No.
All the things I agree with him on do, though.

If you agree with so many of his claimed stances, you should be good with Gramps also. They look like the same thing from my position. Only real difference I see is the letter next to their name.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:12 AM
Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

he is coward just like McCain

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:13 AM
If you agree with so many of his claimed stances, you should be good with Gramps also. They look like the same thing from my position. Only real difference I see is the letter next to their name.

Big difference will be in who they nominate to sit on the Supreme Court.

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 09:16 AM
Big difference will be in who they nominate to sit on the Supreme Court.

True, if you can believe what they claim. Theyíre both such panderers I really have no faith in what either is saying.

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:16 AM
he is coward just like McCain

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. HypocriteJohnny just spouts his partisan crap and runs from the real debate. He hides behind his uniform and his religion. He's a coward of the highest degree.

The funny thing is, deep down he knows this about himself but just can't help from being a hypocrite.

bkkcoh
10-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Big difference will be in who they nominate to sit on the Supreme Court.


Aint it a shame that the judicial branch of government has to go through a litmus test, regardless of which party is in the executive branch, instead of just determining whether or not a law is constitutional. The last I saw, the constitution didn't have an R or a D after it.

I know that is a rose colored look at it, but that is what the justices are supposed to determine. By looking at the letter of the law to determine whether or not it is constitutional.

What the problem is, is the legislation from the bench. That isn't their job, it is the legislative braches job to create law, not the bench, regarless of the level of the judges.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:18 AM
And you should have a problem with the Todd Palin, G. Gordon Liddy, and William Timmons. But you don't. And that says a lot about your objectivity.


I do, I have multiple issues about McCain. But last I seen, none of those 3 people you mentioned killed anybody. Of the 3 Liddy is the worst, I have done said, McCain needs to separate any involvement with Liddy.

IIRC, didn't Liddy apologize for his actions, and paid a price .

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Hey, whaddya know, instead of examing the point of the thread the Obots are resorting to their tried and true tactics of obfuscation and marginalization.

"But what about McCain's ...?"
"U R teh Gheyzorz"

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:19 AM
I do, I have multiple issues about McCain. But last I seen, none of those 3 people you mentioned killed anybody. Of the 3 Liddy is the worst, I have done said, McCain needs to separate any involvement with Liddy.

IIRC, didn't Liddy apologize for his actions, and paid a price .

So he's no better than Obama? Only he is because he's being hypocritical with a capital H.

Liddy is worse than lobbying for a mass murderer and someone that the United States labeled as a terrorist?

jAZ
10-15-2008, 09:20 AM
Tell you what. When you find a republican politician that palls around with known, unrepentant terrorists, don’t vote for them.

Are you voting Bob Barr this year? Or staying home?

In 1971, G. Gordon Liddy plotted to "firebomb() the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy#White_House_years). In 1972 he plotted to "kidnap() anti-war protest organizers ... (at) the Republican National Convention" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Gordon_Liddy#White_House_years). In 1980 he confessed under oath that he "plotted to poison (investigative journalist Jack) Anderson on orders from White House aide Jeb Magruder" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Anderson).


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0504chapmanmay04,0,6238795.column

How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns -- including $1,000 this year.

Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

http://alaskareport.com/news98/x61673_hypocrisy_9382223.htm

Arctic Power, a private lobbying company, hired by the State of Alaska to lobby congress to open ANWR for oil drilling, was ready to hire a spokesman.

[...] Arctic Power, who was awarded $120,000 in state funds, thought the ambassador to reach across the aisle was Watergate conspirator and talk radio host, G. Gordon Liddy. The hook would be a live G-Man broadcast from Alaska. With boots on the ground, he could testify how barren and ripe for drilling ANWR was.

[...] According to Governor Sarah Palin’s former staff member Larry Persily, the Governor thought it was a good idea and planned to make an appearance on G.Gordon Liddy’s program.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:21 AM
I do, I have multiple issues about McCain. But last I seen, none of those 3 people you mentioned killed anybody. Of the 3 Liddy is the worst, I have done said, McCain needs to separate any involvement with Liddy.

IIRC, didn't Liddy apologize for his actions, and paid a price .

Liddy has never apologized.

McCain was on his radio in late 2007 and called him a "very good friend." Libby has donated to McCain's presidential campaign.

Liddy during the Waco raid stated that they should shoot the ATF agents in the head.

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:22 AM
Aint it a shame that the judicial branch of government has to go through a litmus test, regardless of which party is in the executive branch, instead of just determining whether or not a law is constitutional. The last I saw, the constitution didn't have an R or a D after it.

I know that is a rose colored look at it, but that is what the justices are supposed to determine. By looking at the letter of the law to determine whether or not it is constitutional.

What the problem is, is the legislation from the bench. That isn't their job, it is the legislative braches job to create law, not the bench, regarless of the level of the judges.

As there is nothing black and white about our Constitution, there are obviously going to be different interpretations of it. Some will be more liberal, some will be more conservative. It is what it is.
SOme will agree with due process...some won't.
Some will agree with labor unions...some won't.
so on
so on...

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:23 AM
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. HypocriteJohnny just spouts his partisan crap and runs from the real debate. He hides behind his uniform and his religion. He's a coward of the highest degree.

The funny thing is, deep down he knows this about himself but just can't help from being a hypocrite.

I'm so hurt by your allegations. What shall I do? Hide behind my Church which appointed me a leader? Hide behind my medals the Army has given me as an undeserved gratuity?

Oh! I'm such a bad American for not answering all my anonymous critics on a football BBS! Pray for me!

ROFL

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:23 AM
Hey, whaddya know, instead of examing the point of the thread the Obots are resorting to their tried and true tactics of obfuscation and marginalization.

"But what about McCain's ...?"
"U R teh Gheyzorz"

Nice try, NObot. All we're doing is pointing out the hypocricy of your attempts to make William Ayers the number one issue facing the country today as a means of smearing Obama. It's weak, McCain is weak, and you're weak.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:24 AM
As there is nothing black and white about our Constitution, there are obviously going to be different interpretations of it. Some will be more liberal, some will be more conservative. It is what it is.
SOme will agree with due process...some won't.
Some will agree with labor unions...some won't.
so on
so on...

You are waaaaaaay out on a limb here, pal.

:shake:

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:25 AM
I'm so hurt by your allegations. What shall I do? Hide behind my Church which appointed me a leader? Hide behind my medals the Army has given me as an undeserved gratuity?

Oh! I'm such a bad American for not answering all my anonymous critics on a football BBS! Pray for me!

ROFL

Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

Answer the question, coward.

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:25 AM
I'm so hurt by your allegations. What shall I do? Hide behind my Church which appointed me a leader? Hide behind my medals the Army has given me as an undeserved gratuity?

Oh! I'm such a bad American for not answering all my anonymous critics on a football BBS! Pray for me!

ROFL

Also curious...
Which church appointed you a leader? And what position of leadership do you hold?

jAZ
10-15-2008, 09:27 AM
You are waaaaaaay out on a limb here, pal.

:shake:

Yes, ackowledging the entire Judicial Branch is "out there!"

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:27 AM
You are waaaaaaay out on a limb here, pal.

:shake:

Obviously. I mean...since its inception it has been nothing but clear on how everythign is supposed to work. Hell, all this politics/schmolitics stuff means nothing.

bkkcoh
10-15-2008, 09:28 AM
As there is nothing black and white about our Constitution, there are obviously going to be different interpretations of it. Some will be more liberal, some will be more conservative. It is what it is.
SOme will agree with due process...some won't.
Some will agree with labor unions...some won't.
so on
so on...

That is true and I agree, but if it isn't clear cut the court should send it back to the legislative branch so they could get it cleared up.


Granted with the amount of polarization there is now, there isn't any way that legislation can be specific enough to appease both parties. So the legislation has to be vague and therefore the courts have to sort it out.

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 09:29 AM
Are you voting Bob Barr this year? Or staying home?

I havenít decided which 3rd party / write in candidate Iím voting for yet. I just know I canít hold my nose long enough to vote for or against either one of these POS.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:30 AM
Also curious...
Which church appointed you a leader? And what position of leadership do you hold?

Roman Catholic Church appointed me an Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Eucharist, a Catechist and Lector. I am also the Senior Instructor for the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA) in my Parish.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:33 AM
Why because you told me so?

If I thought Obama was a muslim terrorist who hates whites and wants to destroy the US you would have a point. But he doesn't so **** off

What is Obama ? What was his purpose of giving cash funds to an African extremist organization ? Why did he associate with Ayers ? With Adinga ? With Rev. Wrights radical movement ? Of which is related to the African extremist organization in So. Chicago ?

Does it bother you that Obama is lying about all of this ?

FTR, I thank you for your service . As for did I serve, No, I was turned down for medical reasons in the USMC.

My oldest son did serve, as did my dad( Korean ) ,my grandfather( WW I ), uncles ( WW II ),Cousins ( Vietnam ) our family history in the service is cemented.

So this Ayers - Obama issue is a serious one to us .

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Roman Catholic Church appointed me an Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Eucharist, a Catechist and Lector. I am also the Senior Instructor for the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA) in my Parish.

So that proves you're not a hypocrite and a coward? Wow, my apologies.

By the way, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

Somebody who was not a hypocrite and a coward would do the honorable thing and answer a question that is directly related to his own claims.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:34 AM
So that proves you're not a hypocrite and a coward? Wow, my apologies.

By the way, what do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

Somebody who was not a hypocrite and a coward would do the honorable thing and answer a question that is directly related to his own claims.

I presented my credentials. Where are yours?

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Nice try, NObot. All we're doing is pointing out the hypocricy of your attempts to make William Ayers the number one issue facing the country today as a means of smearing Obama. It's weak, McCain is weak, and you're weak.

I appreciate you proving my point with such expediency.

I posted on the subject of the thread so excuse the shit out of me if I try to stay relevant to the topic at hand. It's the Obots who are running away from the debate on the issue because to debate it means conceding the point that it is, in fact, an issue. But they have been instructed by their overlord that this is a non-issue and not to address it. Instead call others names and bring up John McCain in a vain attempt to shame those who have the balls to call Barry out for what he is into silence. So, will you be discussing the issue at hand or will you try to divert attention away from Barry's unabashed association with a known domestic terrorist? Your call sport.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Liddy has never apologized.

McCain was on his radio in late 2007 and called him a "very good friend." Libby has donated to McCain's presidential campaign.

Liddy during the Waco raid stated that they should shoot the ATF agents in the head.

Liddy was out of place ..... But he did serve his time. Again, McCain should break all ties from him, IMHO.

Sully
10-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Liddy was out of place ..... But he did serve his time. Again, McCain should break all ties from him, IMHO.

As someone who loves his country, it doesn't bother you that he won't?

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:38 AM
As someone who loves his country, it doesn't bother you that he won't?

Yes it does, but unlike many Obots, I don't turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to it.

I have many issues about McCain, I have said this over and over, I'm stuck voting for him or to a candidate that has no chance of winning, which is a vote for Obama IMHO.

Does Obama's transgressions bother you ? His ties and associates ? Why is it I don't see any Obama supporters claiming any of this ?

phisherman
10-15-2008, 09:39 AM
I presented my credentials. Where are yours?

you still didn't answer his question.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:39 AM
What is Obama ? What was his purpose of giving cash funds to an African extremist organization ? Why did he associate with Ayers ? With Adinga ? With rev. Wrights radical movement ? Of which is related to the African extremist organization in So. Chicago ?

Does it bother you that Obama is lying about all of this ?

FTR, I thank you for your service . As for did I serve, No, I was turned down for medical reasons in the USMC.

My oldest son did serve, as did my dad( Korean ) ,my grandfather( WW I ), uncles ( WW II ),Cousins ( Vietnam ) our family history in the service is cemented.

So this Ayers - Obama issue is a serious one to us .

I served in the USMC and I appreciate your family serving as well. I apologize for lashing out but I get upset when people question my patriotism or love of my country because I am an Obama supporter.

Obama loves this country just as much as you and I do and all this fear and hate BS has to stop.

To answer your question I don't believe Obama is lying. I think he is being truthful about all of this as best he can. Yes he has made mistakes and was associated with people that are shady. Part of that is because he wasn't born and raised in Chicago but moved their when he was in his mid 20's and those people were the ones who he came into contact the most because he was trying to help poor people get back on their feet. But When you look at his entire record in the Illinois Senate and the US Senate he hasn't supported or said anything that would indicate he thinks like Wright or Ayers. In fact it is the complete opposite.

Everyone who has worked with him, both Republicans and Dems, have all said he is a thoughtful and fair man and loves to hear both sides of the idea and doesn't like yes men.

JMHO Roy.

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:40 AM
I presented my credentials. Where are yours?

Your "credentials" prove nothing. Some of the biggest hypocrites and cowards that have ever existed have hid behind their "credentials."

Your actions speak louder than your words or your "credentials." And your actions on this board have been nothing less than dishonorable. You have behaved like a hypocrite and a coward and continue to do so.

I'll give you an opportunity to step up to the plate just once, HypocriteJohnny:

What do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Does Obama's transgressions bother you ? His ties and associates ? Why is it I don't see any Obama supporters claiming any of this ?

They won't substantively approach thse issues with a ten foot pole. To admit the fallibility of the chosen one would result in the universe collapsing in on itself and the end of all existence. It's like in Dogma.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:40 AM
you still didn't answer his question.

Step aside, please. One spurrious accusation at a time. Or feel free to send me a PM.

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:42 AM
Your "credentials" prove nothing. Some of the biggest hypocrites and cowards that have ever existed have hid behind their "credentials."

Your actions speak louder than your words or your "credentials." And your actions on this board have been nothing less than dishonorable. You have behaved like a hypocrite and a coward and continue to do so.

I'll give you an opportunity to step up to the plate just once, HypocriteJohnny:

What do you think about the head of McCain's presidential transition team being a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein?

ROFL

Crucify me! I am a coward for not posting answers on the internet!!!!!

penchief
10-15-2008, 09:43 AM
you still didn't answer his question.

He won't. It is his mode of operation. This happens every single time he is presented with a question or evidence that contradicts his partisan claims.

That's why he is both a hypocrite and a coward.

jAZ
10-15-2008, 09:44 AM
Yes it does, but unlike many Obots, I don't turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to it.

I have many issues about McCain, I have said this over and over, I'm stuck voting for him or to a candidate that has no chance of winning, which is a vote for Obama IMHO.

Does Obama's transgressions bother you ? His ties and associates ? Why is it I don't see any Obama supporters claiming any of this ?
McCain's with Liddy don't bother me. Palin's with Liddy don't bother me. Obama's with Ayers doesn't bother me.

Palin's with secessionists don't really both me though they are the most serious and troubling of all of this stuff.

What bothers me is the hyporicy of Repubilcans who can't treat Obama like they treat McCain, even when Obama has gone further in this area to make is clear that this association is inconsequential.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 09:46 AM
ROFL

Crucify me! I am a coward for not posting answers on the internet!!!!!

You are such a hypocrite for calling me out about me using my service.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 09:49 AM
I served in the USMC and I appreciate your family serving as well. I apologize for lashing out but I get upset when people question my patriotism or love of my country because I am an Obama supporter.

Obama loves this country just as much as you and I do and all this fear and hate BS has to stop.

To answer your question I don't believe Obama is lying. I think he is being truthful about all of this as best he can. Yes he has made mistakes and was associated with people that are shady but when you look at his entire record in the Illinois Senate and the US Senate he hasn't supported or said anything that would indicate he thinks like Wright or Ayers. In fact it is the complete opposite.

Everyone who has worked with him, both Republicans and Dems, have all said he is a thoughtful and fair man and loves to hear both sides of the idea and doesn't like yes men.

JMHO Roy.

"Obama loves this country as much as ..." is a cute and nice way to pat folks on the head and end a distressing discussion but the fact is Timoth McVeigh loved this country. He loved it so much he felt the need to destroy it to save it from itself. So this "love of country" line really doesn't pan with me because it's the actions taken in love of country that define one's world view.

If Obama is telling the truth about Ayers, that he "didn't know" about the WU. That Obama is taking a pass on the issue because he was only 8 yrs old when the WU was in existence he is an epic moron (unlikely in my view), grossly and purposefully deluded (a possibility), used Ayers for political expediency and liberal credibility in Chicago (a possibility), actually shares some of Ayers' views (a possibility) because I knew plenty about the WU by the time I was out of college. I knew plenty about them in high school because, you know, we have fucking history classes. I'm expected to believe that this Columbia grad, this Harvard Law grad, didn't fucking KNOW about Ayers before showing up to his house? I'm insulted. Barry's full of shit on this.

Barry's never taken a leadership role in either his time in the IL state legislature or the US Senate. He's never bucked leadership on a tough vote. He's never walked out on a limb for an issue that put his job in jeopardy because he believed that much in the issue. He has not and will not do it. Those are the actions that define leadership in DC. It's not sitting around the usual rhetorical circle jerk of politicians looking for bipartite solutions to America's problems. It's standing up, saying here's the problem, here's my solution, here's what I believe, now who's fucking with me? It's telling leadership that country matters more than party and voting against their recommendation on a bill of substance.

Barry is a stuffed suit of empty rhetoric and bullshit and I'm calling him out.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 09:50 AM
Dirk,

With all due respect to your service, Obama does have ties with some extreme radical movement . His teachings under Rev. Wright and association with Adinga are the same radical movements, which was the African extremist organization that Obama gave $ 200,000.00 toout of the Anneburg Fund. Obama knew this,same as he knew about Bill Ayers past, it's the same radical movement Ayers has been running with since the 60's.

This is what we are trying to get people to understand, Obama is lying about it, same as ACORN.His involvement runs deep into their movement. It is a judgment and character issue.

Just the other day Obama sent some campaign officials last month ( not sure of the date ) to a Va. Muslin meeting. The purpose was to find out how he could further get their support in Va. Obama claims he didn't know that some people associated another Muslim extremist association would be present. ( could well be the truth ) However, everywhere Obama goes or does , somewhere somebody has some serious issues that Obama doesn't need to be associated with.

I question Obama's judgment with the people he associates with . That is a character issue to me .

KCJohnny
10-15-2008, 09:51 AM
You are such a hypocrite for calling me out about me using my service.

Please! Talk about your service!

Taco John
10-15-2008, 09:59 AM
So this thread is about why the Weather Underground/Ayers association matters...

Any word on WHEN it will matter?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:01 AM
"Obama loves this country as much as ..." is a cute and nice way to pat folks on the head and end a distressing discussion but the fact is Timoth McVeigh loved this country. He loved it so much he felt the need to destroy it to save it from itself. So this "love of country" line really doesn't pan with me because it's the actions taken in love of country that define one's world view.

If Obama is telling the truth about Ayers, that he "didn't know" about the WU. That Obama is taking a pass on the issue because he was only 8 yrs old when the WU was in existence he is an epic moron (unlikely in my view), grossly and purposefully deluded (a possibility), used Ayers for political expediency and liberal credibility in Chicago (a possibility), actually shares some of Ayers' views (a possibility) because I knew plenty about the WU by the time I was out of college. I knew plenty about them in high school because, you know, we have ****ing history classes. I'm expected to believe that this Columbia grad, this Harvard Law grad, didn't ****ing KNOW about Ayers before showing up to his house? I'm insulted. Barry's full of shit on this.



To compare Obama to McVeigh is really over the line and this is why McCain and his dumb ass supporters are going to lose because you don't get it. No one cares about re-fighting the 60's all they care about is how to save their job, house and 401k.

As far as the rest of your dribble I have 2 college degrees one in Criminal Justice and I have never heard of Ayers before until this year and I am sure if you took a poll 99% of Americans would have no clue who he was either.

I should post the letter a guy wrote who was in college in the 90's where Ayers worked and who worked with his wife on a couple of projects and he said he had no idea about his past for several years and he met with them alot.

Now I am not saying Obama didn't know because he admitted he found out later but because Ayers was working with the mayor and other politicians he assumed he was ok. To me that was a reasonable assumption.

penchief
10-15-2008, 10:05 AM
ROFL

Crucify me! I am a coward for not posting answers on the internet!!!!!

Now you're just trying to rationalize and make light of your inability or unwillingness to answer questions that are directly related to your personal intregrity.

If you're not willing to answer those questions that undermine your claims then you shouldn't be making partisan or unsubstantiated claims. Isn't that an unChristian way to behave?

To me, someone who bears false witness or smears another person and won't defend their claims or their positions when called into question, is someone that behaves dishonorably or in an unChristian manner. If you are going to make claims you should stand by your partisan claims when they are called into question or countered by evidence that contradicts your claims.

But by not doing so, you are acting like a coward and a hypocrite.

RJ
10-15-2008, 10:07 AM
I wonder how long it will be until we no longer need to rehash the 60's and 70's to elect a President. I don't give a flying f*** about Ayers or Liddy and I didn't care whether Bush was in the National Guard or if Bill Clinton inhaled. I would rather Obama had not had any relationship to Ayers but he did and it's certainly not enough of an issue to make me change my vote. There are too many other issues that are way, way more important to this country.

Unfortunately, this is all we're going to hear from the McCain camp for the next three weeks. It seems to be all they have left. Sadly for McCain, he has made this election entirely about his opponent. It's no longer Obama vs McCain, it's just an up or down vote for Obama. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:08 AM
I question Obama's judgment with the people he associates with . That is a character issue to me .

That is your right Roy but I think you are wrong. I went back during that whole Rev Wright nonsense and looked at everything that I could find that he wrote or talked about and there is nothing that he said that was ever radical or extreme. If there was then I would side with you but there isn't.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 10:09 AM
To compare Obama to McVeigh is really over the line and this is why McCain and his dumb ass supporters are going to lose because you don't get it. No one cares about re-fighting the 60's all they care about is how to save their job, house and 401k.

As far as the rest of your dribble I have 2 college degrees one in Criminal Justice and I have never heard of Ayers before until this year and I am sure if you took a poll 99% of Americans would have no clue who he was either.

I should post the letter a guy wrote who was in college in the 90's where Ayers worked and who worked with his wife on a couple of projects and he said he had no idea about his past for several years and he met with them alot.

Now I am not saying Obama didn't know because he admitted he found out later but because Ayers was working with the mayor and other politicians he assumed he was ok. To me that was a reasonable assumption.

My intention wasn't to compare the two but to simply point out who "love of country" can take different forms. That the statement is one meant to placate and really lacks substance when duly considered and I gave you a good example of that point. It wasn't over the line, it was an appropriate contrast.

It doesn't surprise me that you didn't hear of Ayers while pursuing a degree in Criminal Justice. Ayers is a criminal who never received justice and as such would not be appropriate course material. ba dum bum.

I guess I expect too much from our education system because the Weather Underground was no small part of the 60's. I guess I expect an education system to educate people, but I guess it's more about building self-esteem.

I knew about Ayers in high school. I knew more about him in college. and I skipped class on a regular basis. If I'm ahead of the curve on this then it's a sad day for academia in America.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 10:10 AM
That is your right Roy but I think you are wrong. I went back during that whole Rev Wright nonsense and looked at everything that I could find that he wrote or talked about and there is nothing that he said that was ever radical or extreme. If there was then I would side with you but there isn't.

A snake oil salesman doesn't tell you what went into the snake oil, he just promises that his oil will make everything all better.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:15 AM
My intention wasn't to compare the two but to simply point out who "love of country" can take different forms. That the statement is one meant to placate and really lacks substance when duly considered and I gave you a good example of that point. It wasn't over the line, it was an appropriate contrast.

It doesn't surprise me that you didn't hear of Ayers while pursuing a degree in Criminal Justice. Ayers is a criminal who never received justice and as such would not be appropriate course material. ba dum bum.

I guess I expect too much from our education system because the Weather Underground was no small part of the 60's. I guess I expect an education system to educate people, but I guess it's more about building self-esteem.

I knew about Ayers in high school. I knew more about him in college. and I skipped class on a regular basis. If I'm ahead of the curve on this then it's a sad day for academia in America.

Fair enough and like I said I have never heard of Ayers or the Weather Underground until this year and many never did either even those in the Chicago area.

A snake oil salesman doesn't tell you what went into the snake oil, he just promises that his oil will make everything all better.

I would agree with you but when reading his 2 books prior to any aspirations of national office there wasn't anything radical in them and it was refreshingly honest.

Now I know that there is kooks out there that said Ayers ghost wrote those so don't come back with that.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:19 AM
http://www.slate.com/id/2201953

Barack, Bill, and MeThe Bill Ayers that Barack Obama and I worked with was no "domestic terrorist."

By David S. Tanenhaus
Posted Friday, Oct. 10, 2008, at 7:10 AM ET

That Barack Obama and William Ayers knew each other during the 1990s may tell us something about the two men. But it says much more about a particular time and place: Hyde Park, Chicago, more than a decade ago.
<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"><hr id="GapAdDividerTop"><script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">placeAd2(commercialNode,'400x140',false,'')</script>
<hr id="GapAdDividerBottom">Obama first moved to Chicago in 1985, when he worked as a community organizer. But his career got on its current course when he returned to Hyde Park in 1991 to practice law and teach constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Four years later, he met Ayers at a lunchtime meeting about school reform.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">As it happens, I was on the scene, too. In 1990, I began my graduate studies in the history department at the University of Chicago, focusing on the legal history of the city's juvenile-justice system. As I result, I was destined to spend many hours at the law school and eventually to meet Bill Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn.

<hr><!--AD BEGIN--><script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">placeAd2(commercialNode,'midarticleflex',false,'')</script><script style="display: none;" language="JavaScript1.1" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/slate.news/pol/midarticleflex;dir=news;dir=pol;dir=midarticleflex;ad=fb;ad=bb;del=js;ajax=n;heavy=n;pageId=slate-id-2201953;poe=no;fromrss=n;rss=y;front=n;msn_refer=n;dept=58296;articleId=www.slate.com;pos=midarticle flex;sz=446x33,300x250;tile=5;ord=439489170085157300?"></script><!--AD END-->
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<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">I'm embarrassed to admit that when I first met this couple, I had not heard of the Weathermen, let alone its militant offshoot, the Weather Underground, famous from 1970 to 1975 for advocating violent protest against the Vietnam War. I had no idea the group had planned and carried out bombings of the Pentagon and the New York City police headquarters and that its members, including Ayers and Dohrn, had appeared on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">Some of this was naivetť on my part. But it was also generational. Vietnam belonged to history by the time I got around to studying it in college. The books I read were either social histories of soldiers' experiences, such as Al Santoni's Everything We Had, an oral history, or accounts of the decisions that led to the war's disastrous conclusion, like Larry Berman's Planning a Tragedy. The culture of protest and dissent, particularly fringe groups like the Weather Underground, was not part of the curriculum.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">To meet Ayers and Dohrn, as I did in 1995, was to encounter a middle-aged couple in their early 50s who seemed at ease in the vibrant academic community of Hyde Park. Bernardine arranged for us to have breakfast to discuss my dissertation research. When I arrived at the restaurant the next morning, she had just completed a letter to her son, who was away at college.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">Like Obama's dealings with Ayers and Dohrn, mine centered on local issues. At the time, my research centered on the punitive turn in juvenile-justice policy. Scholars like William Bennett, John Walters, and John DiIulio were warning about a new generation of "superpredators" who were "feral pre-social beings" and posed a grave threat to safety in the nation's urban areas. Between 1990 and 1996, 40 states passed laws to make it easier to try juveniles as adults. In response to this spate of lawmaking, the Chicago-based John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation began funding research on adolescent development and juvenile justice. The goal was to restore rational policymaking to this area of law.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">The world's first juvenile court was established in Chicago in 1899, and since the 1920s, Hyde Park had been at the center of the national discussion about educational and juvenile-justice policy. In the 1990s, Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and also taught poetry in the classrooms of the juvenile court to children, mostly African-Americans and Latinos, who might spend the rest of their lives incarcerated. Dohrn directed the Children and Family Justice Center at Northwestern University.

They served on the boards of many organizations devoted to issues of juvenile justice and education. I worked, for example, with Dohrn—alongside judges, academics, and philanthropists—on a program to educate Chicagoans about their proud history of developing innovative public policies to provide opportunities to disadvantaged children, including those who had committed serious crimes.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">The publication in 1997 of Ayers' book A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court attracted much local and national attention. Drawing on his experience as a father and a teacher, he powerfully contrasted and compared the lives of his children, growing up in privilege, with those he had taught in prison. As he observed, "They are kids after all, and nothing they did can possibly change them into adults." That year, Chicago named Ayers its "Citizen of the Year." In November, Michelle Obama, who was then director of the university's community service center, convened a panel at the law school to discuss Ayers' book and the issues it raised.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">Out of serious policy discussions of this sort emerged new and valuable ideas. One of them was the so-called "blended sentence," whereby kids, even though tried as adults, received suspended sentences and were then referred to juvenile programs instead of rotting away for years in adult prisons.
<hr><!--AD BEGIN--><script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">placeAd2(commercialNode,'midarticleflex',false,'')</script><script style="display: none;" language="JavaScript1.1" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/slate.news/pol/midarticleflex;dir=news;dir=pol;dir=midarticleflex;ad=fb;ad=bb;del=js;ajax=n;heavy=n;pageId=slate-id-2201953-pagenum-2;poe=no;fromrss=n;rss=y;front=n;msn_refer=n;dept=58296;articleId=2201953;pos=midarticleflex;sz=446x 33,300x250;tile=5;ord=577146279269669400?"></script><!--AD END-->
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<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">By the late 1990s, such ideas had become part of the national dialogue. Approaches that Ayers helped publicize were being adopted in several states—including Texas under then-Gov. George W. Bush. Juvenile justice was, in fact, a cornerstone of Bush's "compassionate conservative" agenda. In his 2000 acceptance speech (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/conventions/republican/transcripts/bush.html), he spoke movingly of a 15-year-old African-American boy he had met at a juvenile jail in Marlin, Texas, who had committed a "grown-up crime" but was still a "little boy": "If that boy in Marlin believes he is trapped and worthless and hopeless—if he believes his life has no value—then other lives have no value to him, and we are all diminished." The passage could have come directly from Ayers' book.
<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">But by then, Ayers was writing another book, Fugitive Days, which was published just before 9/11. This frank memoir offered no apologies, instead trying to reconcile his past and present. After 9/11, many angry Chicagoans called Ayers and Dohrn "unrepentant terrorists" and demanded that they be fired from their university jobs. They weren't, though it was a difficult time for them.

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">In the intervening years, things have changed yet again. Leading Chicagoans, including Mayor Daley, now commend Ayers for his service to the city. "I don't condone what he did 40 years ago, but I remember that period well," Daley said last April (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041703910.html). "It was a difficult time, but those days are long over. I believe we have too many challenges in Chicago and our country to keep refighting 40-year-old battles."

<link href="http://www.slate.com/css/slate_article.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet">I now include the Weather Underground in the history surveys I teach to undergraduates. I do my best to place them in the context of the radicalism of the late 1960s. I sometimes find it hard to believe that the Bill and Bernardine that Barack and I met in Hyde Park in the 1990s are the same people that my students are learning about in class. I know them better as the couple that invited me into their home in 2000 to meet their extended family, make gingerbread-cookie houses, and share Christmas dinner. Our conversation that night, as it almost always did, focused on the future, not the past.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 10:34 AM
That is your right Roy but I think you are wrong. I went back during that whole Rev Wright nonsense and looked at everything that I could find that he wrote or talked about and there is nothing that he said that was ever radical or extreme. If there was then I would side with you but there isn't.

Did you read up on his teachings. How he went to Africa, to Kenya, his ties to Adinga, then his ties to Obama,his teaching with Obama.

How many of you all know that the book Obama wrote, " The Audacity of Hope " was a sermon by Rev. Wright. It wasn't something Obama penned, his ties to Rev. Wright goes much deeper into radical movement and teachings than Obama wants to mention. The reason Obama didn't want to denounce Rev. Wright, not because of his spiritual leadership, it's his personal teachings and ties he had with him.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 10:36 AM
If I accept the author's view that domestic terrorism should be viewed through the context of the times in which it occurred, that those were turbulent and difficult times, is the author somehow suggesting that the difficulty of the era mitigates the gravity of the WU's actions? If so, that is the dumbest, most idiotic, and fucked up bit of shallow justification I have seen in some time. By that logic the FBI was out of bounds for reopening and convicting Cherry and Blanton in 2000 for the Birmingham Church Bombing in 1963.

Moreover, I wonder if this author would be as understanding if he were discussing abortion clinic bombers?

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 10:43 AM
By the logic of the Obots , Some how, in 40 years from now, Osama Bin Laden ( if he is alive ) and some of his 911 followers could become good citizens in the USA.

Why worry about something that happened 40years ago ? It's not like it would be a character or judgment issue , right ?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:43 AM
Did you read up on his teachings. How he went to Africa, to Kenya, his ties to Adinga, then his ties to Obama,his teaching with Obama.

How many of you all know that the book Obama wrote, " The Audacity of Hope " was a sermon by Rev. Wright. It wasn't something Obama penned, his ties to Rev. Wright goes much deeper into radical movement and teachings than Obama wants to mention. The reason Obama didn't want to denounce Rev. Wright, not because of his spiritual leadership, it's his personal teachings and ties he had with him.

Obama has never denied he got that from a sermon of Rev wright.

I asked this before has Obama EVER said,supported,doing anything in either the Illinois State Senate or US Senate that supports what Rev Wright or Bill Ayers supports or says? Just name one.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:44 AM
If I accept the author's view that domestic terrorism should be viewed through the context of the times in which it occurred, that those were turbulent and difficult times, is the author somehow suggesting that the difficulty of the era mitigates the gravity of the WU's actions? If so, that is the dumbest, most idiotic, and ****ed up bit of shallow justification I have seen in some time. By that logic the FBI was out of bounds for reopening and convicting Cherry and Blanton in 2000 for the Birmingham Church Bombing in 1963.

Moreover, I wonder if this author would be as understanding if he were discussing abortion clinic bombers?

No he was talking about the mid 90's not the 60's when both he and Obama met Ayers.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 10:52 AM
No he was talking about the mid 90's not the 60's when both he and Obama met Ayers.

I get that part. But the author going on to offer "outs" for Obama via his own personal experience is a pretty shallow attempt to make Obama's missteps more, how shall I say, palatable to the masses.

Fact is, no matter how much downplaying anybody puts on it, Ayers is a domestic terrorist and the author's commentary on Ayers and Dohrn just being "...the couple that invited me into their home in 2000 to meet their extended family, make gingerbread-cookie houses, and share Christmas dinner." in an attempt to personalize them into the Rockwellian Grandparent figures disgusts me because I'm certain he would offer no such latitude to abortion clinic bombers or those responsible for bombing the 16th St. Church in Birmingham in 1963 during what Mayor Daly so accurately described as, "difficult times", nor should he. Just as the author should offer no such latitude for Ayers and Dohrn.

Obama has never addressed the issue other than the usual plausable deniability claims which are, at best, pretty f'ing thin. For all I'm told of Obama's intelligence I'm expected to believe that he had no knowledge whatsoever of the radical movements of the 60's, particularly since all of that came to a head right in his own back yard in 1969?

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 10:53 AM
Obama has never denied he got that from a sermon of Rev wright.

I asked this before has Obama EVER said,supported,doing anything in either the Illinois State Senate or US Senate that supports what Rev Wright or Bill Ayers supports or says? Just name one.

Obama's never DONE anything, but that's another point of contention in the discourse on his worth as a "leader".

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 10:57 AM
I get that part. But the author going on to offer "outs" for Obama via his own personal experience is a pretty shallow attempt to make Obama's missteps more, how shall I say, palatable to the masses.

Fact is, no matter how much downplaying anybody puts on it, Ayers is a domestic terrorist and the author's commentary on Ayers and Dohrn just being "...the couple that invited me into their home in 2000 to meet their extended family, make gingerbread-cookie houses, and share Christmas dinner." in an attempt to personalize them into the Rockwellian Grandparent figures disgusts me because I'm certain he would offer no such latitude to abortion clinic bombers or those responsible for bombing the 16th St. Church in Birmingham in 1963 during what Mayor Daly so accurately described as, "difficult times", nor should he. Just as the author should offer no such latitude for Ayers and Dohrn.

Obama has never addressed the issue other than the usual plausable deniability claims which are, at best, pretty f'ing thin. For all I'm told of Obama's intelligence I'm expected to believe that he had no knowledge whatsoever of the radical movements of the 60's, particularly since all of that came to a head right in his own back yard in 1969?

I think he is just showing 30+ years later that these weren't the same people and also point out that most people had no clue who these people were or their past. They were just middle aged folks in Chicago so to say Obama should have known is really a reach.

Also don't forget Obama wasn't born and raised in Chicago he moved there to help poor people so he wouldn't have had any knowledge prior to that.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:04 AM
Obama has never denied he got that from a sermon of Rev wright.

I asked this before has Obama EVER said,supported,doing anything in either the Illinois State Senate or US Senate that supports what Rev Wright or Bill Ayers supports or says? Just name one.


Obama supported Bill Ayers.
Obama supported Rev. Wright.
Obama supported the African extremist program with Ayers, Obama funneled money to .
Obama supported Rev. Wrights movement in Africa, Kenya and Adinga
Obama supported Adinga

The list goes on ....... what more you need ?

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:05 AM
Obama's never DONE anything, but that's another point of contention in the discourse on his worth as a "leader".

Oh, he did vote present, a lot.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:06 AM
By the logic of the Obots , Some how, in 40 years from now, Osama Bin Laden ( if he is alive ) and some of his 911 followers could become good citizens in the USA.

Why worry about something that happened 40years ago ? It's not like it would be a character or judgment issue , right ?


Can any of you libs, dems, Obots dispute this logic ?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:07 AM
Obama supported Bill Ayers.
Obama supported Rev. Wright.
Obama supported the African extremist program with Ayers, Obama funneled money to .
Obama supported Rev. Wrights movement in Africa, Kenya and Adinga
Obama supported Adinga

The list goes on ....... what more you need ?

Pretty simple. I want one bill, one statement from the Senate floors, anything like that suggests he supports Wright or Ayers position. Just name one or show me one. He voted on over 4000 bills as a State Senator it should be easy to come up with one.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:09 AM
Can any of you libs, dems, Obots dispute this logic ?

I don't think rational people equate Ayers = Osama.

use your brain for a second roy why would both republicans and dems in Chicago work with this guy? If you can answer me that I would appreciate it.

Donger
10-15-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't think rational people equate Ayers = Osama.

use your brain for a second roy why would both republicans and dems in Chicago work with this guy? If you can answer me that I would appreciate it.

Who?

Pitt Gorilla
10-15-2008, 11:12 AM
If I accept the author's view that domestic terrorism should be viewed through the context of the times in which it occurred, that those were turbulent and difficult times, is the author somehow suggesting that the difficulty of the era mitigates the gravity of the WU's actions? If so, that is the dumbest, most idiotic, and ****ed up bit of shallow justification I have seen in some time. By that logic the FBI was out of bounds for reopening and convicting Cherry and Blanton in 2000 for the Birmingham Church Bombing in 1963.

Moreover, I wonder if this author would be as understanding if he were discussing abortion clinic bombers?http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:17 AM
I don't think rational people equate Ayers = Osama.

use your brain for a second roy why would both republicans and dems in Chicago work with this guy? If you can answer me that I would appreciate it.

I can't, I really can't make any reasonable sense at all out of it. I honestly can't see anybody being able to do it. Hell, I knew about he WU and Bill Ayers in school, back in the early 70's,like 71 .

Ayers movement killed people in the USA. Set off bombs, etc.

Osama's movement killed people in the USA, flew plans into buildings and set off bombs.

You see no similarity's ?

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:21 AM
Pretty simple. I want one bill, one statement from the Senate floors, anything like that suggests he supports Wright or Ayers position. Just name one or show me one. He voted on over 4000 bills as a State Senator it should be easy to come up with one.


No, there isn't, he done all of this dirty crap while in the IL Senate and the US Senate. His band of cronies run long and deep .

Do younot care that he funded these programs with the Anneburg funds, plus you can add that ACORN received some of these funds.

Obama continued to serve on these boards while in the IL Senate.

Obama still was associated with Rev. Wright and Adinga while a US Senator.

Does any of this matter ?

WilliamTheIrish
10-15-2008, 11:25 AM
Is it resonating with middle America? I don't feel the quake.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:33 AM
I can't, I really can't make any reasonable sense at all out of it. I honestly can't see anybody being able to do it. Hell, I knew about he WU and Bill Ayers in school, back in the early 70's,like 71 .

Ayers movement killed people in the USA. Set off bombs, etc.

Osama's movement killed people in the USA, flew plans into buildings and set off bombs.

You see no similarity's ?

Could you forsee both Republicans and Dems working with Bin Laden?

I will say this I think many many Americans on both sides view the 60's as a radical time for this country and all kinds of people did screwy things so they don't hold it against those people.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:34 AM
No, there isn't, he done all of this dirty crap while in the IL Senate and the US Senate. His band of cronies run long and deep .

Do younot care that he funded these programs with the Anneburg funds, plus you can add that ACORN received some of these funds.

Obama continued to serve on these boards while in the IL Senate.

Obama still was associated with Rev. Wright and Adinga while a US Senator.

Does any of this matter ?

I am just asking for one bill or one statement on the Senate floors. The most radical Obama ever got was with abortion and that is not something Wright or Ayers ever talked about.

Sully
10-15-2008, 11:37 AM
Yes it does, but unlike many Obots, I don't turn a blind eye or a deaf ear to it.

I have many issues about McCain, I have said this over and over, I'm stuck voting for him or to a candidate that has no chance of winning, which is a vote for Obama IMHO.

Does Obama's transgressions bother you ? His ties and associates ? Why is it I don't see any Obama supporters claiming any of this ?

They don't bother me. Why should they? Should I think Obama is going to bomb the White House? Should I think Obama is going to turn the country into a theocracy? I don't. No reasonable person does. McCain's "associations" don't bother me either. Because, again, no reasonable person could think those associations are going to have any effect on his presidency.

However, I (and probably 95% of Obama voters) actually agree with his policies. They aren't "Obots" any more than you are a "McCain-bot." You, meme, and all the other folks who keep trotting out this insane, creepy, and completely false narrative that folks are blindly following him (the only candidate that has actually detailed his plans), make yourselves look weak, bitter, and just plain dumb.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:37 AM
I am just asking for one bill or one statement on the Senate floors. The most radical Obama ever got was with abortion and that is not something Wright or Ayers ever talked about.

Bout all he ever did was vote present or with his party. Nothing about reaching across the other side.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 11:41 AM
Could you forsee both Republicans and Dems working with Bin Laden?

I will say this I think many many Americans on both sides view the 60's as a radical time for this country and all kinds of people did screwy things so they don't hold it against those people.


Why not ? With the same logic you guys are labeling Ayers ? Why should it be different, it's your logic .

I OTOH,despise both of them.

I had a close friend to the family and a cousin killed in Vietnam, Ayers and his cronies then were terrorist of the war.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:45 AM
Bout all he ever did was vote present or with his party. Nothing about reaching across the other side.

That is totally inaccurate. I have explained to you before that less then 2% of his votes were present so 98% of the time he cast a vote.

If you want to have an honest discussion quit parroting talking points.

As far as reaching across the aisle he did that alot in the State Senate and has done very little of that in the US Senate.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 11:46 AM
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/mccains-ayers-i.html

McCain's Ayers isn't the one known here---If he was a terrorist in '90s, we missed it

Note--Careful readers will note that this column is a condensation/combination of two Monday blog posts, What the meaning of `is' is (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/what-the-meanin.html) and Question for Ayers alarmists: Where were you in the 1990s? (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html)

Mike Royko thought Bill Ayers was a jerk.

In November 1990 (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#royko) the late Tribune columnist reflected mockingly on Ayers' days as "flaming radical leader" of a fringe group opposed to the Vietnam War and his transition to "useful citizen."

"With all forgiven," Royko wrote, the former radicals "have rejoined society. … [Ayers is] now working for a good cause, improving public education. He's become a leader in the so-called school reform program."

In July 1993, then, the Tribune reported that Royko made nice with Ayers and his wife at a party. "I thought, 'Wow, she's a good-looking chick,' " Royko said about Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, also a former radical. "Anyway, she was pleasant."

These are only two of 60 references to Ayers in the 1990s I found in local news archives available on Nexis. Twenty one of them make reference to his unseemly past—it was no secret—but 39 do not.

He was publishing books on education, helping lead a charge to get grant money for school reform and being honored as Chicago's Citizen of the Year in 1997.

Today, some say this was an outrage. Ayers should have been shunned and marginalized, loudly criticized, not embraced, by the city's political and academic establishment.

But the record shows he just wasn't a very controversial figure. Aside from Royko's "I still think he's a jerk" column in 1990, I found only two objections to Ayers' civic rehabilitation in the decade's news archives: a 1993 letter to the Tribune (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#frederick) and a 1999 guest commentary (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#oconnor).

If there were protests or organized efforts opposing Ayers, the papers didn't cover them.

If any of Mayor Richard M. Daley's feckless opponents tried to use his approval of Ayers as an issue in the 1990s, I can find no evidence of it.
And if any of the pillars of society who helped oversee the Chicago Annenberg Challenge education grants ever resigned or otherwise tried to distance themselves from Ayers, who played a key role in securing those grants, the available historical record is silent on the matter.

Revisionist history being promoted by Republican John McCain's presidential campaign is that Democrat Barack Obama "worked with terrorist Bill Ayers" when Obama chaired the Chicago Annenberg board, whose meetings Ayers attended, and served with him on another board.

And that it revealed a shocking lack of judgment when Obama allowed Ayers and Dohrn to host a meet-and-greet coffee for him when he was launching his political career in the mid-1990s.

Note the implicit present tense in this and other attacks on Obama. Not "former," not "one-time," but now:
"Ayers is a terrorist," as one commentator in this newspaper put it the other day, amplifying vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's charge that Obama is "palling around with terrorists."

Neither Ayers nor his wife was espousing or practicing terrorist acts in the 1990s when Obama met them. They haven't committed or advocated violent protest since the early 1970s.

If Ayers is a terrorist, then McCain is an adulterer and I am a 6th grader.

Perhaps history will one day judge harshly all of those who participated in educational reform efforts or other civic projects in which Ayers was involved. This will include former University of Illinois and Northwestern University presidents; top honchos at Ameritech, Continental Bank and the Field Museum; and even the former publisher of the Tribune.

Maybe the legacy of Royko will be forever stained because he used such a mild epithet to describe Ayers and ogled Dohrn instead of denouncing and renouncing her on the spot.

Somehow, though, I expect history will be smarter than that.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 11:54 AM
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/mccains-ayers-i.html

McCain's Ayers isn't the one known here---If he was a terrorist in '90s, we missed it

Note--Careful readers will note that this column is a condensation/combination of two Monday blog posts, What the meaning of `is' is (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/what-the-meanin.html) and Question for Ayers alarmists: Where were you in the 1990s? (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html)

Mike Royko thought Bill Ayers was a jerk.

In November 1990 (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#royko) the late Tribune columnist reflected mockingly on Ayers' days as "flaming radical leader" of a fringe group opposed to the Vietnam War and his transition to "useful citizen."

"With all forgiven," Royko wrote, the former radicals "have rejoined society. … [Ayers is] now working for a good cause, improving public education. He's become a leader in the so-called school reform program."

In July 1993, then, the Tribune reported that Royko made nice with Ayers and his wife at a party. "I thought, 'Wow, she's a good-looking chick,' " Royko said about Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, also a former radical. "Anyway, she was pleasant."

These are only two of 60 references to Ayers in the 1990s I found in local news archives available on Nexis. Twenty one of them make reference to his unseemly past—it was no secret—but 39 do not.

He was publishing books on education, helping lead a charge to get grant money for school reform and being honored as Chicago's Citizen of the Year in 1997.

Today, some say this was an outrage. Ayers should have been shunned and marginalized, loudly criticized, not embraced, by the city's political and academic establishment.

But the record shows he just wasn't a very controversial figure. Aside from Royko's "I still think he's a jerk" column in 1990, I found only two objections to Ayers' civic rehabilitation in the decade's news archives: a 1993 letter to the Tribune (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#frederick) and a 1999 guest commentary (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/10/question-for-ay.html#oconnor).

If there were protests or organized efforts opposing Ayers, the papers didn't cover them.

If any of Mayor Richard M. Daley's feckless opponents tried to use his approval of Ayers as an issue in the 1990s, I can find no evidence of it.
And if any of the pillars of society who helped oversee the Chicago Annenberg Challenge education grants ever resigned or otherwise tried to distance themselves from Ayers, who played a key role in securing those grants, the available historical record is silent on the matter.

Revisionist history being promoted by Republican John McCain's presidential campaign is that Democrat Barack Obama "worked with terrorist Bill Ayers" when Obama chaired the Chicago Annenberg board, whose meetings Ayers attended, and served with him on another board.

And that it revealed a shocking lack of judgment when Obama allowed Ayers and Dohrn to host a meet-and-greet coffee for him when he was launching his political career in the mid-1990s.

Note the implicit present tense in this and other attacks on Obama. Not "former," not "one-time," but now:
"Ayers is a terrorist," as one commentator in this newspaper put it the other day, amplifying vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's charge that Obama is "palling around with terrorists."

Neither Ayers nor his wife was espousing or practicing terrorist acts in the 1990s when Obama met them. They haven't committed or advocated violent protest since the early 1970s.

If Ayers is a terrorist, then McCain is an adulterer and I am a 6th grader.
Perhaps history will one day judge harshly all of those who participated in educational reform efforts or other civic projects in which Ayers was involved. This will include former University of Illinois and Northwestern University presidents; top honchos at Ameritech, Continental Bank and the Field Museum; and even the former publisher of the Tribune.

Maybe the legacy of Royko will be forever stained because he used such a mild epithet to describe Ayers and ogled Dohrn instead of denouncing and renouncing her on the spot.

Somehow, though, I expect history will be smarter than that.

Yet another author who thinks justice can be served to domestic terrorists through "civic rehabilitation" and the "well they ain't done it in awhile" school of criminal justice. I ask again, would this position be acceptable if applied to Cherry and Blanton in 2000 when they were finally convicted? I think not. As a matter of fact it was a gross miscarriage of justice it took that long to lock those two up and the fact that Ayers walks free is another gross injustice. The fact that there are so many people willing to look the other way and cover his ass regarding his terrorist transgressions is absolutely puke inducing. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

This author too is simply offering convenient and palatable "outs" for Obama's lack of knowledge and want of a US History book. I expect more out of a CIC.

ROYC75
10-15-2008, 12:34 PM
Everybody needs a friend like Bill Ayers. He should run for POTUS. Great guy.

RaiderH8r
10-15-2008, 12:37 PM
I click away and miss delete-a-palooza. What the hell happened? Did somebody leave a floater?

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 12:42 PM
I click away and miss delete-a-palooza. What the hell happened? Did somebody leave a floater?

My post wouldíve been funny if I could get this gif to work.

HC_Chief
10-15-2008, 12:50 PM
My post wouldíve been funny if I could get this gif to work.

Might help if it were a gif and not a jpeg, no?

Radar Chief
10-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Might help if it were a gif and not a jpeg, no?

Youíve hit on the problem. Itís a gif but I obviously didnít save the entire file so itís down loading as that single image.
Too bad, itís a healthy chick frantically bouncing her bewbies. Fun for everyone. ;)

HC_Chief
10-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Youíve hit on the problem. Itís a gif but I obviously didnít save the entire file so itís down loading as that single image.
Too bad, itís a healthy chick frantically bouncing her bewbies. Fun for everyone. ;)

FIX THAT SHIT

Mecca
10-16-2008, 12:31 AM
Bill Ayers had 1 firebomb left...John McCains Presidential hopes.

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 08:02 AM
More people care about this than you think. Soft on terrorism + liberation theology = "change you can believe in".

1991 "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. America is a great country," Ayers said when interviewed by David Horowitz.

<EMBED src=http://blip.tv/play/nGnTmhmIoik width=525 height=340 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

penchief
10-16-2008, 08:27 AM
More people care about this than you think. Soft on terrorism + liberation theology = "change you can believe in".

1991 "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. America is a great country," Ayers said when interviewed by David Horowitz.

<EMBED src=http://blip.tv/play/nGnTmhmIoik width=525 height=340 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about John McCain hiring a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein to run his presidential transition team?

KCJohnny
10-16-2008, 08:31 AM
Hey HypocriteJohnny, what do you think about John McCain hiring a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein to run his presidential transition team?

Hey, hypocritepenchief, got a Link?

penchief
10-16-2008, 08:52 AM
Hey, hypocritepenchief, got a Link?

Who's William Timmons? Do you even know?

RaiderH8r
10-16-2008, 09:30 AM
Who's William Timmons? Do you even know?

A name even more obscure than Bill Ayers? So if we're to buy Barry's logic then Timmons, and your question, are irrelevant since they focus on the past. See, McCain is looking forward, building a better America for tomorrow, for our children and grandchildren. This talk about the past does nothing to build the foundation for a better tomorrow.

See? I can write Barry's tripe too.

penchief
10-16-2008, 10:00 AM
A name even more obscure than Bill Ayers? So if we're to buy Barry's logic then Timmons, and your question, are irrelevant since they focus on the past. See, McCain is looking forward, building a better America for tomorrow, for our children and grandchildren. This talk about the past does nothing to build the foundation for a better tomorrow.

See? I can write Barry's tripe too.

Timmons is currently tabbed to head McCain's presidential transition team. Which is why McCain and HypocriteJohnny shouldn't be throwing stones from a glass house.

You're catching on but HypocriteJohnny is having a hard time keeping up. Maybe you can help him out a little.

RaiderH8r
10-16-2008, 10:16 AM
Timmons is currently tabbed to head McCain's presidential transition team. Which is why McCain and HypocriteJohnny shouldn't be throwing stones from a glass house.

You're catching on but HypocriteJohnny is having a hard time keeping up. Maybe you can help him out a little.

Ayers is a terrorst and should be prosecuted. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Timmons never bombed the Pentagon and according to the liberal position Timmons' activities are really not even relevant here since Saddam really wasn't a bad guy and posed no threat to the US or the region. Being Saddam's lobbyist is really no worse than being a lobbyist for Fannie Mae...right?

Frankie
10-31-2008, 09:09 AM
Hey KCJ, you have time to start all these threads, yet why haven't you answered the question I asked you here? http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5166696#post5166696 (posts 64 and 79)

***SPRAYER
10-31-2008, 05:18 PM
Ayers wrote a book that he dedicated to Sirhan Sirhan, the guy who shot Robert F. Kennedy.

Nice.