PDA

View Full Version : Elections Why have the last several elections are about refighting the 1960's?


dirk digler
10-15-2008, 02:03 PM
I actually saw this question posed on a conservative board and I thought it was a excellent question so I thought we could have a honest and pleasant discussion. That means Johnny and Programmer need to stay away.

Just looking back from when I started voting in 92 Clinton had to fight alot of what he did in the 60's and also in 96 and then Bush\Gore in 2000 and of course the smear feast in 2004 and it has reappeared in this election with the Ayers stuff.

I am hoping maybe some of the "older" posters on here could give us some insight on why this is happening.

I just find it strange we keep rehashing the 1960's 30-40 years later when it really has no bearing on what is happening today.

HC_Chief
10-15-2008, 02:05 PM
Because the hippies/straights(or "squares"/non-hippies) are the ruling generation. It's their time.

I knew this was coming back in the early 80s... wondered how horrific it was going to be when the stinking hippy "Baby Boomers" finally ascended to power? Here we are.

irishjayhawk
10-15-2008, 02:09 PM
I've always thought politics in these terms. I've always thought it curious that the same generation that was so against war, rebelled against government, and the like would create all the exact same problems when they came into power.

I guess it's true; the one thing you learn from history is that no one learns from history.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 02:13 PM
Because the hippies/straights(or "squares"/non-hippies) are the ruling generation. It's their time.

I knew this was coming back in the early 80s... wondered how horrific it was going to be when the stinking hippy "Baby Boomers" finally ascended to power? Here we are.

That was one of the arguments I read in the other thread was blaming the Baby Boomers.

Though neither one of these candidates are baby boomers

HC_Chief
10-15-2008, 02:17 PM
That was one of the arguments I read in the other thread was blaming the Baby Boomers.

Though neither one of these candidates are baby boomers

BHO most certainly is! Born in 1961.

McCain falls outside the baby boomer range (46-64), having been born in 1936, but no one can deny his involvement in the Baby Boomer's seminal event: the war in Viet Nam.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 02:20 PM
BHO most certainly is! Born in 1961.

McCain falls outside the baby boomer range (46-64), having been born in 1936, but no one can deny his involvement in the Baby Boomer's seminal event: the war in Viet Nam.

Oh yeah I missed the 1964 end date and just saw the 1946 start date.

Do you think Obama being just a kid when Vietnam was going on has any relevance to his thought process?

StcChief
10-15-2008, 02:21 PM
BHO most certainly is! Born in 1961.

McCain falls outside the baby boomer range (46-64), having been born in 1936, but no one can deny his involvement in the Baby Boomer's seminal event: the war in Viet Nam.

Well at the tail end of it. 46-64 according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer


from a involvement later with Ayers etc in Chicago, hanging around Libs at University types yes.

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Can't wait for a gen x president, we grew up under Reagan. Kind of like Sarah Palin.


They were scared of Reagan too.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Can't wait for a gen x president, we grew up under Reagan. Kind of like Sarah Palin.


They were scared of Reagan too.

She is actually a baby boomer as well. Born in 64

RJ
10-15-2008, 03:29 PM
I think it's because everybody in those days picked a side and the side defined them. Hawks/doves, Ali/Frazier, Unitas/Namath, MLK/Wallace, Long hair/crewcut, city/country......it's a long list, and if you can determine which side of that line a politician was on then you can define who that politician is today. Clinton smoked pot (inhaling or not) = liberal hippie, Kerry was a war protestor = hates America. It never would have occurred to me, though, that Obama would get linked to the turmoil of the 60's. I suppose that by the time it goes away I'll be too old to care.

So how are Presidential candidates who grew up in the 80's and 90's going to be defined when that time comes?

patteeu
10-15-2008, 03:29 PM
I've always thought politics in these terms. I've always thought it curious that the same generation that was so against war, rebelled against government, and the like would create all the exact same problems when they came into power.

What does this mean?

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 03:31 PM
I think it's because everybody in those days picked a side and the side defined them. Hawks/doves, Ali/Frazier, Unitas/Namath, MLK/Wallace, Long hair/crewcut, city/country......it's a long list, and if you can determine which side of that line a politician was on then you can define who that politician is today. Clinton smoked pot (inhaling or not) = liberal hippie, Kerry was a war protestor = hates America. It never would have occurred to me, though, that Obama would get linked to the turmoil of the 60's. I suppose that by the time it goes away I'll be too old to care.

So how are Presidential candidates who grew up in the 80's and 90's going to be defined when that time comes?

I think that is an interesting point.

In 2048 will the candidates be fighting over the Iraq War?

patteeu
10-15-2008, 03:39 PM
Oh yeah I missed the 1964 end date and just saw the 1946 start date.

Do you think Obama being just a kid when Vietnam was going on has any relevance to his thought process?

No. He's been immersed in the socialist thinking of 60s radicals all his life. He didn't have to be there to catch on to the worldview of his mother, Frank Marshall Davis, William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright among many others.

The peace movement of the 60s (and to a lesser extent the civil rights movement*) was largely orchestrated by American marxists. Just like now, there were a lot of regular people caught up in it because it seemed cool**, but it was fueled by the true believers. Those true believers have been disappointed with democrat candidates in the intervening years, but you can bet they're giddy with what they see on the blank slate of Obama.



-----
* The civil rights movement had it's share of radicals in it (e.g. Black Panthers), but it also had a lot of non-communist Christians and other well intentioned people. Aside from a small minority of sincere conscientious objectors, the peace movement was driven by radicals who wanted to give the US a black eye and who often believed that communism was, in fact, a benefit to the people of Vietnam.

** And of course there were people who joined in the protests because of their emotional reaction to all the American blood shed (by far more than in the GWoT) in a foreign land for reasons that seemed abstract to them, but these people generally weren't the agitators.

RJ
10-15-2008, 03:41 PM
I think that is an interesting point.

In 2048 will the candidates be fighting over the Iraq War?


Probably so. They'll likely be defining each other by what they and their associates were doing in 2008.

RJ
10-15-2008, 03:45 PM
No. He's been immersed in the socialist thinking of 60s radicals all his life. He didn't have to be there to catch on to the worldview of his mother, Frank Marshall Davis, William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright among many others.

The peace movement of the 60s (and to a lesser extent the civil rights movement) was largely orchestrated by American marxists. Just like now, there were a lot of regular people caught up in it because it seemed cool, but it was fueled by the true believers. Those true believers have been disappointed with democrat candidates in the intervening years, but you can bet they're giddy with what they see on the blank slate of Obama.


I don't think so. You're talking about people who, if still alive, would be McCain's age by now. They're beyond caring, or at least beyond doing anything about it.

dirk digler
10-15-2008, 03:56 PM
No. He's been immersed in the socialist thinking of 60s radicals all his life. He didn't have to be there to catch on to the worldview of his mother, Frank Marshall Davis, William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright among many others.

The peace movement of the 60s (and to a lesser extent the civil rights movement*) was largely orchestrated by American marxists. Just like now, there were a lot of regular people caught up in it because it seemed cool**, but it was fueled by the true believers. Those true believers have been disappointed with democrat candidates in the intervening years, but you can bet they're giddy with what they see on the blank slate of Obama.



-----
* The civil rights movement had it's share of radicals in it (e.g. Black Panthers), but it also had a lot of non-communist Christians and other well intentioned people. Aside from a small minority of sincere conscientious objectors, the peace movement was driven by radicals who wanted to give the US a black eye and who often believed that communism was, in fact, a benefit to the people of Vietnam.

** And of course there were people who joined in the protests because of their emotional reaction to all the American blood shed (by far more than in the GWoT) in a foreign land for reasons that seemed abstract to them, but these people generally weren't the agitators.

Interesting post patteeu. Thanks.

I am curious if you think Obama to a large extent was around these people but rejected their 60's mentality? I think he has because he doesn't push policies that support their line of thinking and is world view doesn't mesh with theirs.

plbrdude
10-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Because the hippies/straights(or "squares"/non-hippies) are the ruling generation. It's their time.

I knew this was coming back in the early 80s... wondered how horrific it was going to be when the stinking hippy "Baby Boomers" finally ascended to power? Here we are.

hmmmm... the ones who hated the establishment have become the establishment. peace, love, and herb no longer get it done. look out, socialist amerika just around the corner.

Dave Lane
10-15-2008, 04:19 PM
If you didn't live through it really much of it will escape you. Peace love and music are really fine objectives through out ones life.

Dave

Calcountry
10-15-2008, 04:21 PM
She is actually a baby boomer as well. Born in 64I consider that year to be the cusp year, you can identify either way.

patteeu
10-16-2008, 12:52 AM
I don't think so. You're talking about people who, if still alive, would be McCain's age by now. They're beyond caring, or at least beyond doing anything about it.

Old people are the most intensely political age-segment of our population.

patteeu
10-16-2008, 12:58 AM
Interesting post patteeu. Thanks.

I am curious if you think Obama to a large extent was around these people but rejected their 60's mentality? I think he has because he doesn't push policies that support their line of thinking and is world view doesn't mesh with theirs.

What policies are you thinking that he doesn't push? How do you see the respective worldviews that you don't think mesh?

As just one example, ACORN is a direct descendant of the radicalism of the 60s and there's no doubt that Obama is allied with ACORN.

splatbass
10-16-2008, 02:13 AM
I consider that year to be the cusp year, you can identify either way.

Some consider those of us born between 1960 and 1965 to not really be Baby Boomers, and not Gen X, so they call us "Tweeners". They say we don't really belong to any generation. I don't necessarily agree with them, just passing it along.

http://www.tweeners.org/usatoday.htm

http://www.tweeners.org/

tiptap
10-16-2008, 09:16 AM
I am not sure why the hippie non hippie notion goes with the baby boomers necessarily. That distinction is arbitrary. The non traditional aspect of "hippie" appeared across all of the political and religious spectrum. There was a basic consensus against the Vietnam War and for rock and roll but that would be the end of agreement. I mean many vet hippies back from Vietnam voiced a notion that we either needed to be more aggressive with N. Vietnam or to get out. And you had religious Jesus movements that were communal and often were fundamentalist. Many expressed libertarian ideas about economics and government. And all of that action that might be considered unorthodox and therefore hippie, was in the minority. Many of those who dressed the part of hippie would go back to their corporate live style they grew up with in their parents homes.

The resentment is fostered as much for political gain because despite many trying to be the face or head of the hippie notion, it simply never had a central theme. It was just experimentation. It was therefore easy for others to paint the picture.

Just a view from someone who lived through all of that.