PDA

View Full Version : General Politics Joe the Plumber laying Pipe in Obama


Bootlegged
10-17-2008, 09:19 AM
Dead heat. NYT/CBS needs to come back with another poll showing Barry up 20pts.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-17-2008, 10:03 AM
That was tough:

Friday, October 17, 2008

Bad Spin Watch: Drudge Touts Weeks-Old, Web-Based Poll (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/bad-spin-watch-drudge-touts-weeks-old.html)

<style>#fullpost {display:none;}</style> For his latest trick, Matt Drudge is touting the results of an AP-Yahoo poll that shows a two-point race between Obama and McCain.

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/siren.gif

You may never have heard of the AP-Yahoo poll before. This is for good reason, since a look at the fine print (http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/nws/elections/ap_election_wave8_topline_101308.pdf) reveals that it's not really intended for its horse race numbers (the AP uses a separate agency, GfK (http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/), for those).

For one thing, the poll is not timely. It entered the field on October 3 -- two weeks ago -- and left the field on October 13, which was this Monday.

For another thing, it's an internet-based poll:
The survey was conducted using the web-enabled KnowledgePanelSM, a probability-based Panel designed to be representative of the U.S. population. Initially, participants are chosen scientifically by a random selection of telephone numbers. Persons in selected households are then invited by telephone to participate in the webenabled KnowledgePanelSM. For those who agree to participate, but do not already have Internet access, Knowledge Networks provides at no cost an Internet appliance and Internet service connection. People who already have computers and Internet service are permitted to participate using their own equipment. Panelists then receive unique log-in information for accessing surveys online, and then are sent emails three to four times a month inviting them to participate in research.For a third thing, it has no likely voter screen, and the horse race question does not even appear to have a registered voter screen ... it's a poll of all adults.

Go, Drudge! Go!


================================================




Keep eating the paint chips, Bootlegged.

Taco John
10-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Anyone who thinks this is a dead heat at this point is delusional. Real Clear Politics has their national average at 49.5 to 42.7. Intrade has McCain at 17% to Obama's 83%, and getting a landslide 364 electoral college votes to McCain's 174. FiveThirtyEight.com has Obama winning 352 EC votes, and a 94.7% chance to win right now.

Drudge should be ashamed of himself for raising false hopes based on shaky data.

Frankie
10-17-2008, 02:12 PM
Anyone who thinks this is a dead heat at this point is delusional. Real Clear Politics has their national average at 49.5 to 42.7. Intrade has McCain at 17% to Obama's 83%, and getting a landslide 364 electoral college votes to McCain's 174. FiveThirtyEight.com has Obama winning 352 EC votes, and a 94.7% chance to win right now.

Drudge should be ashamed of himself for raising false hopes based on shaky data.

Plus the fact that we will probably see a carpet-bombing of Obama ads in the last week or so while McCain is running out of advertisement money.

Iowanian
10-17-2008, 02:13 PM
I've accepted that Obama will be the next president, but I refuse to call him Dear Leader like the rest of you.

noa
10-17-2008, 02:18 PM
I've accepted that Obama will be the next president, but I refuse to call him Dear Leader like the rest of you.

I only called him that after he raised my friend from the dead.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:23 PM
I've accepted that Obama will be the next president, but I refuse to call him Dear Leader like the rest of you.

Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

Logical
10-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine now and move on.So what country are you moving to and be sure and start an I am leaving and never coming back thread when you go.

To bad Troy, I like you, even with your weird affinity for dogs over people.

SBK
10-17-2008, 02:24 PM
I still think Obama is gonna lose.

However, I know the election is over and there's no reason to vote.

dirk digler
10-17-2008, 02:26 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

LMAO

Now you know how the other side felt about Bush.

dirk digler
10-17-2008, 02:27 PM
I still think Obama is gonna lose.

However, I know the election is over and there's no reason to vote.

So you think McCain is going to when in a landslide?

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 02:28 PM
LMAO

Now you know how the other side felt about Bush.


Yeah that sums it up nicely.

gblowfish
10-17-2008, 02:31 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

Well, that's a constructive viewpoint.
Sheesh.
W is probably the biggest moron EVER to be POTUS, but I still respect him as our President and would not disown him.

Every village needs an idiot.

SBK
10-17-2008, 02:31 PM
So you think McCain is going to when in a landslide?

Know, I due knot think it will bee a land slide.

I said months ago that this race reminded me of the tortoise and the hare story. Obama's ego would cost him the race to the ignored man who just plugged away.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:32 PM
LMAO

Now you know how the other side felt about Bush.

All the dems had to do was bring a good moderate to the table and they would have won by a landslide but no, we got Kerry. BTW I didn't vote for Bush. Bush was a big enough asshole that we are now facing the possibility of seeing the libs run unchecked. That's dangerous when it happens on either side.

SBK
10-17-2008, 02:32 PM
So you think McCain is going to when in a landslide?

Know.

gblowfish
10-17-2008, 02:33 PM
Know.

Do you work for Diebold?

noa
10-17-2008, 02:33 PM
Know.

Why knot?

penchief
10-17-2008, 02:33 PM
I've accepted that Obama will be the next president, but I refuse to call him Dear Leader like the rest of you.

I don't hear anybody calling him "Dear Leader" except for you. Sounds like you have new issues similar to your old "messiah" issues.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:35 PM
Well, that's a constructive viewpoint.
Sheesh.
W is probably the biggest moron EVER to be POTUS, but I still respect him as our President and would not disown him.

Every village needs an idiot.

It is what it is. If Obama gets in you wait and see how divisive we will end up being. You ain't seen nothing yet.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:36 PM
I don't hear anybody calling him "Dear Leader" except for you. Sounds like you have new issues similar to your old "messiah" issues.

That wasn't iowanian, that was Farrakhan with the messiah issue.

penchief
10-17-2008, 02:38 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

I'm glad liberals and progressives didn't take that attitude when the righties in this country catapulted the most incompetent, ideological, and corrupt candidate of our time to the presidency. All we did was dissent and still had to take mountains of bullshit from the lock-step sheep on the right.

penchief
10-17-2008, 02:41 PM
It is what it is. If Obama gets in you wait and see how divisive we will end up being. You ain't seen nothing yet.

You guys did the same with Clinton so I have no doubt you will do all you can to undermine the office of the presidency once again.

DaneMcCloud
10-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.


Ah, the old "Take my ball and go home" attitude.

That's what made this country great!

:rolleyes:

dirk digler
10-17-2008, 02:44 PM
Know, I due knot think it will bee a land slide.

I said months ago that this race reminded me of the tortoise and the hare story. Obama's ego would cost him the race to the ignored man who just plugged away.

So why not vote? I guess I don't understand.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:46 PM
I'm glad liberals and progressives didn't take that attitude when the righties in this country catapulted the most incompetent, ideological, and corrupt candidate of our time to the presidency. All we did was dissent and still had to take mountains of bullshit from the lock-step sheep on the right.

You wouldn't have received so much bullshit if you hadn't brought the most liberal candidate you could find to the table that wants to spend an additional trillion dollars now. Nobody is a Bush fan now. I never was.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 02:47 PM
You guys did the same with Clinton so I have no doubt you will do all you can to undermine the office of the presidency once again.

Who is you guys? BTW Clinton is a saint compared to this guy.

JonesCrusher
10-17-2008, 02:54 PM
He took the name Joe...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Q_1yusqD8

SBK
10-17-2008, 02:58 PM
So why not vote? I guess I don't understand.

Wear did I say I wood knot vote?

noa
10-17-2008, 03:00 PM
Wear did I say I wood knot vote?

Ewe said there is know reason two vote.

dirk digler
10-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Wear did I say I wood knot vote?

However, I know the election is over and there's no reason to vote.

Sorry if I took this statement that you wasn't voting.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 03:04 PM
Who is you guys? BTW Clinton is a saint compared to this guy.

That's just ignorance talking.

penchief
10-17-2008, 03:05 PM
You wouldn't have received so much bullshit if you hadn't brought the most liberal candidate you could find to the table that wants to spend an additional trillion dollars now. Nobody is a Bush fan now. I never was.

Investing in our infrastructure and creating jobs is a smart thing to do. There will actually be a return on that investment for all Americans. To me, it's a real example of putting country first by investing in our country instead of just paying lip service to a bunch of slogans while throwing taxpayer money away to corporate entities, business crooks, and war profiteers.

Empowering the consumer base is the way to create demand which will create markets. When people have good paying jobs they have disposable income which allows them options and opportunities in life. They can make choices. Through those choices they generate economic activity which creates markets for others to provide real goods and services. Those who do the best job of providing goods and services rise to the top of the heap.

Trickle Down class warfare and corporate welfare DO NOT WORK. Growing the economy from the bottom up creates a consumer base that offers real opportunities for everyone, including the top 1%. Tax payer money is much better spent on creating a permanent foundation for an empowered consumer base than extending to the wealthiest and most powerful the leverage to consolidate wealth and monopolize the market. That ideology has been what has led us to our current debacle.

BIG_DADDY
10-17-2008, 03:05 PM
That's just ignorance talking.

Do you ever actually say anything?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 03:11 PM
I don't see why it matters that Joe the Plumber is laying pipe in Omaha. Hey, maybe the guy decided to relocate. Maybe Omaha is a better market for laying pipe.

As far as I'm concerned, he can lay it in Nebraska, Missouri, Ohio — heck, any state that he's licensed in. I don't even think the guy should have to be licensed by the state for that matter.

Huh?

He's not laying pipe in Omaha?

He's laying pipe in Obama?

Never mind.

Friendo
10-17-2008, 03:12 PM
:hmmm:

3. Displaced anger: This kind of anger is partially defensive. When the content or magnitude of the anger does not seem to fit the situation, you can suspect displacement. That is to say that anger that cannot be expressed directly is "piggy backed" onto a situation where a lesser degree of anger seems warranted. Displaced anger will not heal. It's expression may give temporary relief, but will be repeated over and over without healing. Displacement is a defense or resistance, and should become the focus of your inquiry (metacommunication). If the original anger is displaced, it was probably experienced as unacceptable in some way. Overcoming resistance to acknowledgment of the original source of anger may be a major therapeutic task. As you and the patient become clear about the original source of the displaced anger, then the anger in it's original form will heal.

jidar
10-17-2008, 03:15 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

If this happens I may need to reconsider my atheism.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 03:24 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.

It was a lose/lose situation to begin with. I'm just going to make sure I get mine and move on.

So we're going to act like petulant children? We're going to act the same as the democrat party and their members have acted over the past few years?

No way. No, thanks. We're the party of the grownups, my friend.

Logical
10-17-2008, 03:26 PM
I don't see why it matters that Joe the Plumber is laying pipe in Omaha. Hey, maybe the guy decided to relocate. Maybe Omaha is a better market for laying pipe.

As far as I'm concerned, he can lay it in Nebraska, Missouri, Ohio — heck, any state that he's licensed in. I don't even think the guy should have to be licensed by the state for that matter.

Huh?

He's not laying pipe in Omaha?

He's laying pipe in Obama?

Never mind.Weird, but layin pipe in Obama sounds ghey NTTIAWWT

SBK
10-17-2008, 03:32 PM
Sorry if I took this statement that you wasn't voting.

I believe everything the media says, and they have told me that the election is already over. No reason to vote if they've already declared a winner. :evil:

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 03:46 PM
Weird, but layin pipe in Obama sounds ghey NTTIAWWT

Homophobe.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 05:51 PM
Do you ever actually say anything?

I do but your ignorance blinds you.

penchief
10-17-2008, 05:57 PM
So we're going to act like petulant children? We're going to act the same as the democrat party and their members have acted over the past few years?

No way. No, thanks. We're the party of the grownups, my friend.

Comparatively speaking, I believe the democratic party has behaved in a far superior manner over the past eight years than the republican party did the previous eight years. Our behavior was centered around dissent, exposing the corruption and hubris, and reigning in extreme ideology. Considering the arrogance that Bush and Cheney exhibited while giving this country a royal screwing, democrats behaved pretty damned reasonably, IMO.

On the other hand, the republican party's manner during the Clinton witch hunts was nothing short of petulent, disrespectful, and disruptful over issues that had no bearing on the peoples business or good governance. The right wing imposed it's self-righteous hypocricy on the country, appointed itself as judge, jury, and executioner over issues that were irrelevent to the country's well-being, and dragged America along for the ride against the people's will.

By the way, you undermined your own claim to behave as the adult by your own petty use of the term "democrat party" instead of the correct term, "democratic party." The use of that Rovian concoction is intended to be nothing more than a poke in the eye and is a display of your disrespect, as well as, a sign of the contempt that you harbor for the democratic party.

***SPRAYER
10-17-2008, 06:19 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/spread/Plumbers_Ad.gif

http://bestobamafacts.com/

Messier
10-17-2008, 06:31 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/spread/Plumbers_Ad.gif

http://bestobamafacts.com/

I guess that's just for plumbers that aren't in the union.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 06:51 PM
...I believe...

I don't read what you believe.

Got a fact or two? I'll listen.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 06:53 PM
I don't read what you believe.

I think ClevelandBronco is Joe the plumber from Ohio. no, I really do.






ROFL

penchief
10-17-2008, 06:53 PM
I don't read what you believe.

Good for you.

By the way, I thought you were the adult. Why do you disrespectfully refer to the democratic party as the democrat party?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 06:55 PM
Good for you.

By the way, I thought you were the adult. Why do you disrespectfully refer to the democratic party as the democrat party?

Because I have no respect for the democrat party. That's not obvious?

penchief
10-17-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't read what you believe.

Got a fact or two? I'll listen.

No you won't. You never do.

It is a fact that the republican party behaved more juvenile during the Clinton years than the democratic party did during the Bush years.

It was the Bush Administration that behaved more juvenile during the Bush years.

penchief
10-17-2008, 06:56 PM
Because I have no respect for the democrat party. That's not obvious?

Which makes you the self-proclaimed adult?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I think ClevelandBronco is Joe the plumber from Ohio. no, I really do.






ROFL

I'm Jake the Plummer from Denver.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 06:57 PM
Which makes you the self-proclaimed adult?

Do you even read what you write?

I make myself the self-proclaimed adult.

That's what self-proclaimed means, you twat.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 06:59 PM
Do you even read what you write?

I make myself the self-proclaimed adult.

That's what self-proclaimed means, you twat.

Don't mind Penchief, he only listens to himself.

penchief
10-17-2008, 06:59 PM
Do you even read what you write?

I make myself the self-proclaimed adult.

That's what self-proclaimed means, you twat.

Yeah. You proclaimed that you weren't going to act like a petulent child but then turned right around in the same post and behaved like a petulent child.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 06:59 PM
By the way, penchief. Thank you for your service.

You twat.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 07:00 PM
Yeah. You proclaimed that you weren't going to act like a petulent child but then turned right around in the same post and behaved like a petulent child.

Is this where you start crying? just wondering.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Yeah. You proclaimed that you weren't going to act like a petulent child but then turned right around in the same post and behaved like a petulent child.

You've never run across an adult that dismissed a child's opinion without reading it?

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:03 PM
By the way, penchief. Thank you for your service.

You twat.

Ouch. That really hurts coming from such a thoughtful and well-informed citizen such as yourself.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 07:07 PM
Ouch. That really hurts coming from such a thoughtful and well-informed citizen such as yourself.

Cool. Take care.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:09 PM
You've never run across an adult that dismissed a child's opinion without reading it?

I wasn't commenting about you not reading my post. That wouldn't faze me in the least. I was commenting how humorous it was that you proclaimed to be above acting like a petulent child and then turned around and disrespectfully referred to the democratic party as the democrat party, just as a petulent child would, ala George W. Bush.

Someone who had any sense of self awareness would have recognized how ironic that was while they were typing it.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:09 PM
Is this where you start crying? just wondering.

What do you mean? Sounds like you are getting awful defensive. Are you sure you aren't about to cry?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Is this where you start crying? just wondering.

It seems to be.

Something about the democrat party.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 07:12 PM
What do you mean? Sounds like you are getting awful defensive. Are you sure you aren't about to cry?

No, not me. the proof is in the pudding, PenChief. ClevelandBronco certainly made you whine like a bitch. so I guess I was right. it's all good.

ROFL

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:12 PM
Cool. Take care.

You too, bro. Try to take it easy, though. Stay away from the Sarah Palin rallies. I wouldn't want you to get carried away.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:22 PM
No, not me. the proof is in the pudding, PenChief. ClevelandBronco certainly made you whine like a bitch. so I guess I was right. it's all good.

ROFL

Hardly. I don't hear any whining. I was just pointing out irony. It sounds more like you two are trying to imagine a scenario that feeds your egos.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 07:24 PM
Hardly. I don't hear any whining. I was just pointing out irony. It sounds more like you two are trying to imagine a scenario that feeds your egos.

No No No, enough of your bullshit tonight. you were whining, there's no doubt about that. now run along now.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:32 PM
No No No, enough of your bullshit tonight. you were whining, there's no doubt about that. now run along now.

Calling an ass an ass is not the same as whining. Acting like an ass is more correlative to whining than pointing out whiny ass-like behavior.

For example, his calling me a twat was whiny behavior because he was incapable of dealing with his dislike for me in an "adult-like" manner. My pointing out his whiny behavior does not make me a whiner, too. It just makes me someone who is willing to confront the kind of whiny ass-like behavior that ClevelandBronco exhibits on a regular basis.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 07:39 PM
Calling an ass an ass is not the same as whining. Acting like an ass is more correlative to whining than pointing out whiny ass-like behavior.

For example, his calling me a twat was whiny behavior because he was incapable of dealing with his dislike for me in an "adult-like" manner. My pointing out his whiny behavior does not make me a whiner, too. It just makes me someone who is willing to confront the kind of whiny ass-like behavior that ClevelandBronco exhibits on a regular basis.

Of course, penchief. of course!

ROFL

alanm
10-17-2008, 07:39 PM
You guys did the same with Clinton so I have no doubt you will do all you can to undermine the office of the presidency once again.
As only we can. :evil:

***SPRAYER
10-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Calling an ass an ass is not the same as whining. Acting like an ass is more correlative to whining than pointing out whiny ass-like behavior.

For example, his calling me a twat was whiny behavior because he was incapable of dealing with his dislike for me in an "adult-like" manner. My pointing out his whiny behavior does not make me a whiner, too. It just makes me someone who is willing to confront the kind of whiny ass-like behavior that ClevelandBronco exhibits on a regular basis.

Shadup ya twat.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:41 PM
Of course, penchief. of course!

ROFL

Thank you for agreeing. Maybe you do have some common sense instead of just a herd mentality.

Bill Parcells
10-17-2008, 07:42 PM
Thank you for agreeing. Maybe you do have some common sense instead of just a herd mentality.

OK, fuckoff penchief! is that better?

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:43 PM
OK, ****off penchief! is that better?

I'm sure it was for you.

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:43 PM
Shadup ya twat.

Ditto.

***SPRAYER
10-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Ditto.

So there.

alanm
10-17-2008, 07:47 PM
Investing in our infrastructure and creating jobs is a smart thing to do. There will actually be a return on that investment for all Americans. To me, it's a real example of putting country first by investing in our country instead of just paying lip service to a bunch of slogans while throwing taxpayer money away to corporate entities, business crooks, and war profiteers.

Empowering the consumer base is the way to create demand which will create markets. When people have good paying jobs they have disposable income which allows them options and opportunities in life. They can make choices. Through those choices they generate economic activity which creates markets for others to provide real goods and services. Those who do the best job of providing goods and services rise to the top of the heap.

Trickle Down class warfare and corporate welfare DO NOT WORK. Growing the economy from the bottom up creates a consumer base that offers real opportunities for everyone, including the top 1%. Tax payer money is much better spent on creating a permanent foundation for an empowered consumer base than extending to the wealthiest and most powerful the leverage to consolidate wealth and monopolize the market. That ideology has been what has led us to our current debacle.
All hail the leader Comrades!!

penchief
10-17-2008, 07:50 PM
All hail the leader Comrades!!

That's a stretch. Can we have just a little more balance and pramatism and a little less dogma and ideology, please?

alanm
10-17-2008, 07:54 PM
That's a stretch. Can we have just a little more balance and pramatism and a little less dogma and ideology, please?
No Comrade. I call a sickle a sickle.

penchief
10-17-2008, 08:02 PM
No Comrade. I call a sickle a sickle.

So let's keep on letting the right-wing corpo-fascists run this country into the ground? Let's continue to let our infrastructure go unfunded as it crumbles around us? Let's continue to allow the oil industry to hold us hostage by keeping us dependent on fossil fuels? Let's continue to let corporate America suppress wages and eliminate jobs as a means of destroying the middle class? Let's continue to let market manipulation and speculation serve as the engine of economic policy instead of tangible goods & services and real supply & demand?

Com'n man, it's time to leave the dogma behind and get real. We've got a country to save here and the rhetoric and empty ideology that helped create this mess just ain't going to cut it anymore.

Ari Chi3fs
10-17-2008, 08:05 PM
So you think McCain is going to when in a landslide?

The election isnt over until Diebold says it is.

Iowanian
10-17-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't hear anybody calling him "Dear Leader" except for you. Sounds like you have new issues similar to your old "messiah" issues.

wow...

Someone sounds like he's been kicked in the goocher.

When hoperah's president, I won't like it, but I seriously doubt I'll throw a 4-8 year tizzy fit like the left has with dubya.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 08:19 PM
wow...

Someone sounds like he's been kicked in the goocher.

When hoperah's president, I won't like it, but I seriously doubt I'll throw a 4-8 year tizzy fit like the left has with dubya.

hopefully you won't have a reason to

Iowanian
10-17-2008, 08:26 PM
I do too.

I have a list of concerned areas I hope he forgets about. Pandering to the world won't gain him any favors with me. I want my president to look out for American interests, and interests that favor Americans. I don't really care what Luxembourg thinks.

I want him to stay out of my pocket book and my gun cabinet.

You vote him in, you take the credit.

Dubya has been a farkup, but he's been dealt some very difficult cards and in my opinion is still better than the loon- Algore, and johnkerry.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 08:33 PM
I do too.

I have a list of concerned areas I hope he forgets about. Pandering to the world won't gain him any favors with me. I want my president to look out for American interests, and interests that favor Americans. I don't really care what Luxembourg thinks.

I want him to stay out of my pocket book and my gun cabinet.

You vote him in, you take the credit.

Dubya has been a farkup, but he's been dealt some very difficult cards and in my opinion is still better than the loon- Algore, and johnkerry.

Personally I don't want him to pander to the world either, but would like to see him approach relations a little differently. I think the way we've been going about it is bass ackwards.

penchief
10-17-2008, 08:34 PM
wow...

Someone sounds like he's been kicked in the goocher.

When hoperah's president, I won't like it, but I seriously doubt I'll throw a 4-8 year tizzy fit like the left has with dubya.

Let's hope Obama isn't nearly the ideologue or incompetent **** up that Bush has proven to be. If he does turn out to be just as bad, he will deserve every bit of criticism that he gets.

However, I love how some of you use language in ways that reveal your resentment and hurt feelings and then when somebody points that out, they are accused of being the ones with the hurt feelings. It's not only ironic but it is a good example of how people will project and not be aware they're doing it.

Frankie
10-17-2008, 08:34 PM
Do you work for Diebold?

:clap:

Frankie
10-17-2008, 08:35 PM
Why knot?

Nice. :LOL:

Iowanian
10-17-2008, 08:40 PM
I am legitimately concerned that going into my 2nd year of business in a very difficult industry, Obama's tax plan might be enough to sink my boat, even though I'm currently technically working 4(four) taxable jobs to make it work.

I'm concerned that the hours I'm toiling to possibly improve my families long term financial status, and years of savings I'm risking to try this is supposed to be "shared" with the 3 families of unemployed scumbags who don't work a job among them......

These are some of my concerns with President Hoperah, future leader of the free(healthcare........haha) world.


For all of the bad things Bush has done, he has helped my bottom line with his tax policy, I've appreciated and wisely used the stimulus check, and the tax breaks he's given renewable energy companies like wind....have opened potential doors to make my cannon ball into entrepenuership possible. I left very safe, secure and steady salary employment to do so.


I hope that Obama IS the greatest thing since sliced bread if elected, and 4 years from now I feel stupid for not supporting him. I'm not betting the farm on that though. I want only good things for America, and I will never devolve into wanting things to go badly because my guy didn't win, like some have all of this time. McCain, is not and never has been my guy either.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 08:54 PM
I agree with virtually everything you said here. I totally agree with the part of 3 families sharing your hard work despite not doing anything. I feel that welfare reform should be front and center of any campaign's agenda. I think it's wrong for a person to be able to have more kids just for the sake of sweetning there cut. I think people should get no more than 6 months of welfare benefits in any 10 year cycle.

Iowanian
10-17-2008, 08:57 PM
The things I've heard Obama say about people having accountability and getting off of their asses, I like.

My problem is that his policies don't seem to support that.

There is a relatively new company in my area, a relatively significant number of new jobs. I was part of meetings that brought them here. They're having trouble keeping about 50% staff, because after 3-4 weeks, people realize that they're making enough that they'll....hold on....wait for it......"Lose their benefits" and quit.

The younger generation has been so pampered, and pandered to and told that they were "special" and there is soooooooo much entitlement attitude, that even in a farming community, too many don't even know HOW to work, let alone take pride in it.

I can't even imagine what its like in cities.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 08:59 PM
The things I've heard Obama say about people having accountability and getting off of their asses, I like.

My problem is that his policies don't seem to support that.


I don't see that. The only thing I see from him that could be interpreted as socialism is health care and not really.

alanm
10-17-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree with virtually everything you said here. I totally agree with the part of 3 families sharing your hard work despite not doing anything. I feel that welfare reform should be front and center of any campaign's agenda. I think it's wrong for a person to be able to have more kids just for the sake of sweetning there cut. I think people should get no more than 6 months of welfare benefits in any 10 year cycle.
I would feel so much better if the democrats shitcanned Pelosi and Reid.

splatbass
10-17-2008, 09:02 PM
Even if he wins he will never be my president. **** Obama and all those that would allow someone like that to become our commander and chief.



Bye the way, the term is "Commander in Chief". Not "and". The military sometimes refers to it as "CinC", pronounced "sink".

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 09:02 PM
I would feel so much better if the democrats shitcanned Pelosi and Reid.


Personally I feel Pelosi is as unequipped for this game as palin.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 09:04 PM
Bye the way, the term is "Commander in Chief". Not "and".


It is humorous that your correcting his grammar while misspelling by

Friendo
10-17-2008, 09:04 PM
I would feel so much better if the democrats shitcanned Pelosi and Reid.


I think many of us would as well. I chalk it up to a political pay-off (mistake) during a time of nothing to lose--makes me feel better anyway. fwiw-I think they will be largely marginalized if they keep stepping in it.

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 09:07 PM
I am legitimately concerned that going into my 2nd year of business in a very difficult industry, Obama's tax plan might be enough to sink my boat, even though I'm currently technically working 4(four) taxable jobs to make it work.

I'm concerned that the hours I'm toiling to possibly improve my families long term financial status, and years of savings I'm risking to try this is supposed to be "shared" with the 3 families of unemployed scumbags who don't work a job among them......

These are some of my concerns with President Hoperah, future leader of the free(healthcare........haha) world.


For all of the bad things Bush has done, he has helped my bottom line with his tax policy, I've appreciated and wisely used the stimulus check, and the tax breaks he's given renewable energy companies like wind....have opened potential doors to make my cannon ball into entrepenuership possible. I left very safe, secure and steady salary employment to do so.


I hope that Obama IS the greatest thing since sliced bread if elected, and 4 years from now I feel stupid for not supporting him. I'm not betting the farm on that though. I want only good things for America, and I will never devolve into wanting things to go badly because my guy didn't win, like some have all of this time. McCain, is not and never has been my guy either.

Congrats :thumb: and good luck!

I'm not the biggest McCain supporter as well so I've been trying to keep an open mind. He did say something to me that did resonate well from the debate the other night. It was about not being the time to raise anyone's taxes and a government spending freeze on most things. I believe he may be correct about that with the situation going on.

I don't believe this election is over by a long shot, btw.

splatbass
10-17-2008, 09:08 PM
It is humorous that your correcting his grammar while misspelling by

Sorry.


:cuss:

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Congrats :thumb: and good luck!

I'm not the biggest McCain supporter as well so I've been trying to keep an open mind. He did say something to me that did resonate well from the debate the other night. It was about not being the time to raise anyone's taxes and a government spending freeze on most things. I believe he may be correct about that with the situation going on.

I don't believe this election is over by a long shot, btw.


The debates are over it would take a huge screw up from Obama to swing it the other way.

banyon
10-17-2008, 09:09 PM
I would feel so much better if the democrats shitcanned Pelosi and Reid.

So would Democrats, what does that tell you?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance/congressional_performance

Just 37% of Democrats say they have a favorable opinion of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, while 51% have an unfavorable view of her. One-quarter (25%) of Democrats rate their view of the San Francisco Democrat as Very Favorable, but 14% see her in a Very Unfavorable light.

The news is even worse for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who is viewed favorably by 22% of Democrats and unfavorably by 41%. Six percent (6%) of Democrats have a Very Favorable view of the Nevada senator, but 8% regard him Very Unfavorably.

You should root for her to stick around. She's your Al Davis.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Sorry.


:cuss:

lol

just couldn't resist the irony

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 09:16 PM
The debates are over it would take a huge screw up from Obama to swing it the other way.

I think it may have already happened. I could be wrong but I think Obama and "spreading the wealth" will not go over with many Americans. This guy also wonders the same thing:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html

Did Barack "Spread the Wealth" Obama Just Blow the Election?

October 16, 2008 11:37 AM ET | James Pethokoukis | Permanent Link | Print

No. Really. You're kidding me. Barack Obama actually told that Joe the Plumber guy that he wants to "spread the wealth around." What, did Obama just get done reading the Wikipedia entry on Huey "Share the Wealth" Long or something? Was he somehow channeling that left-wing populist from the Depression? Talk about playing into the most extreme stereotype of your party, that it is infested with socialists.

A while back I chatted with a University of Chicago professor who was a frequent lunch companion of Obama's. This professor said that Obama was as close to a full-out Marxist as anyone who has ever run for president of the United States. Now, I tend to quickly dismiss that kind of talk as way over the top. My working assumption is that Obama is firmly within the mainstream of Democratic politics. But if he is as free with that sort of redistributive philosophy in private as he was on the campaign trail this week, I have no doubt that U of C professor really does figure him as a radical. And after last night's debate, a few more Americans might think that way, too. McCain's best line: "Now, of all times in America, we need to cut people's taxes. We need to encourage business, create jobs, not spread the wealth around."

And by the way, I just noticed that the IBD/TIPP poll, the most accurate in 2004, has McCain down by just 3 points. If the contest is perceived by the voters as a contest between a wealth redistributor and a wealth creator, then it could be a long night come Nov. 4. This is still a center-right country, gang. Note this Gallup poll from June:

When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today's consumer, Americans overwhelmingly—by 84% to 13%—prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

There you go.

A June survey says Americans overwhemingly are opposed to wealth redistribution. Time will tell.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 09:19 PM
I think it may have already happened. I could be wrong but I think Obama and "spreading the wealth" will not go over with many Americans. This guy also wonders the same thing:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html

Did Barack "Spread the Wealth" Obama Just Blow the Election?

October 16, 2008 11:37 AM ET | James Pethokoukis | Permanent Link | Print

No. Really. You're kidding me. Barack Obama actually told that Joe the Plumber guy that he wants to "spread the wealth around." What, did Obama just get done reading the Wikipedia entry on Huey "Share the Wealth" Long or something? Was he somehow channeling that left-wing populist from the Depression? Talk about playing into the most extreme stereotype of your party, that it is infested with socialists.

A while back I chatted with a University of Chicago professor who was a frequent lunch companion of Obama's. This professor said that Obama was as close to a full-out Marxist as anyone who has ever run for president of the United States. Now, I tend to quickly dismiss that kind of talk as way over the top. My working assumption is that Obama is firmly within the mainstream of Democratic politics. But if he is as free with that sort of redistributive philosophy in private as he was on the campaign trail this week, I have no doubt that U of C professor really does figure him as a radical. And after last night's debate, a few more Americans might think that way, too. McCain's best line: "Now, of all times in America, we need to cut people's taxes. We need to encourage business, create jobs, not spread the wealth around."

And by the way, I just noticed that the IBD/TIPP poll, the most accurate in 2004, has McCain down by just 3 points. If the contest is perceived by the voters as a contest between a wealth redistributor and a wealth creator, then it could be a long night come Nov. 4. This is still a center-right country, gang. Note this Gallup poll from June:

When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today's consumer, Americans overwhelmingly—by 84% to 13%—prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

There you go.

A June survey says Americans overwhemingly are opposed to wealth redistribution. Time will tell.



I don't think as many people are making a big of deal of that as being led on. I honestly think the one thing people are pissed off about that could cost him the election is the support of the bailout.

splatbass
10-17-2008, 09:19 PM
I think it may have already happened. I could be wrong but I think Obama and "spreading the wealth" will not go over with many Americans.

Wasn't Reagan's "trickle down theory" a method of spreading the wealth? According to them anyway. Give all the money to the rich and they would let the wealth trickle down (spread) to us.

To bad it was really the Republican form of wealth redistribution - taking money from the middle class to give it to the wealthy.

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 09:23 PM
I don't think as many people are making a big of deal of that as being led on. I honestly think the one thing people are pissed off about that could cost him the election is the support of the bailout.

Like I said, time will tell. It could end up being the major gaffe of the election. I know it spread like wildfire as well as Joe the Plummer all across the internet and the media whether you agreed with what happened or not.

banyon
10-17-2008, 09:28 PM
I think it may have already happened. I could be wrong but I think Obama and "spreading the wealth" will not go over with many Americans. This guy also wonders the same thing:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html

Did Barack "Spread the Wealth" Obama Just Blow the Election?

October 16, 2008 11:37 AM ET | James Pethokoukis | Permanent Link | Print

No. Really. You're kidding me. Barack Obama actually told that Joe the Plumber guy that he wants to "spread the wealth around." What, did Obama just get done reading the Wikipedia entry on Huey "Share the Wealth" Long or something? Was he somehow channeling that left-wing populist from the Depression? Talk about playing into the most extreme stereotype of your party, that it is infested with socialists.

A while back I chatted with a University of Chicago professor who was a frequent lunch companion of Obama's. This professor said that Obama was as close to a full-out Marxist as anyone who has ever run for president of the United States. Now, I tend to quickly dismiss that kind of talk as way over the top. My working assumption is that Obama is firmly within the mainstream of Democratic politics. But if he is as free with that sort of redistributive philosophy in private as he was on the campaign trail this week, I have no doubt that U of C professor really does figure him as a radical. And after last night's debate, a few more Americans might think that way, too. McCain's best line: "Now, of all times in America, we need to cut people's taxes. We need to encourage business, create jobs, not spread the wealth around."

And by the way, I just noticed that the IBD/TIPP poll, the most accurate in 2004, has McCain down by just 3 points. If the contest is perceived by the voters as a contest between a wealth redistributor and a wealth creator, then it could be a long night come Nov. 4. This is still a center-right country, gang. Note this Gallup poll from June:

When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today's consumer, Americans overwhelmingly—by 84% to 13%—prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

There you go.

A June survey says Americans overwhemingly are opposed to wealth redistribution. Time will tell.

We've been redistributing the wealth for 30 years. It's how productivity doubled, yet median wages remained stagnant.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d4/Gini_since_WWII.gif/700px-Gini_since_WWII.gif

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 09:34 PM
We've been redistributing the wealth for 30 years. It's how productivity doubled, yet median wages remained stagnant.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d4/Gini_since_WWII.gif/700px-Gini_since_WWII.gif


Oh I won't argue with that but we've now had a presidential candidate come out and actually admit it on video.

banyon
10-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Oh I won't argue with that but we've now had a presidential candidate come out and actually admit it on video.

You think we agree?

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 09:49 PM
You think we agree?


I do agree with the part about we've been redistributing wealth for 30 years. I don't agree with the concept itself but I agree it's been happening. From the Gallup survey in June it appears many Americans don't agree with it going forward but Obama slipped up and admitted it on video.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 10:03 PM
I do agree with the part about we've been redistributing wealth for 30 years. I don't agree with the concept itself but I agree it's been happening. From the Gallup survey in June it appears many Americans don't agree with it going forward but Obama slipped up and admitted it on video.


So you're saying you'd feel better with someone lying about it?

banyon
10-17-2008, 10:14 PM
I do agree with the part about we've been redistributing wealth for 30 years. I don't agree with the concept itself but I agree it's been happening. From the Gallup survey in June it appears many Americans don't agree with it going forward but Obama slipped up and admitted it on video.

I would guess we would fundamentally disagree about the directionality of the redistribution, then. The problem, though, is that the vast repository of statistics and history support my view and not yours.

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 10:22 PM
I would guess we would fundamentally disagree about the directionality of the redistribution, then. The problem, though, is that the vast repository of statistics and history support my view and not yours.

As a long-time minority business owner, I see things in a much different light. I don't think anyone should be punished for trying to succeed and those who try to achieve wealth should be able to make the decisions on who to help, not you or the government. There is statistics and there is reality. I just believe from my personal experience, wealth redistribution is wrong.

banyon
10-17-2008, 10:30 PM
As a long-time minority business owner, I see things in a much different light. I don't think anyone should be punished for trying to succeed and those who try to achieve wealth should be able to make the decisions on who to help, not you or the government. There is statistics and there is reality. I just believe from my personal experience, wealth redistribution is wrong.

Government policies can only recognize trends unfortunately.

Your principle of punishing any additional income as intolerable would leave government with no way to impose an income tax in any form. Because of the inherent difficulties in imposing alternative tax systems, I guess I would find that unworkable.

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 10:35 PM
Government policies can only recognize trends unfortunately.

Your principle of punishing any additional income as intolerable would leave government with no way to impose an income tax in any form. Because of the inherent difficulties in imposing alternative tax systems, I guess I would find that unworkable.

That's would be awesome! :thumb: That means we would just have enough to cover for defense and the government basics. I don't have a problem with that. Get the government off the people's backs! :thumb:

banyon
10-17-2008, 10:36 PM
That's would be awesome! :thumb: That means we would just have enough to cover for defense and the government basics. I don't have a problem with that. Get the government off the people's backs! :thumb:

What do you think the people currently receiving forms of government support will do without any?

The_Grand_Illusion
10-17-2008, 10:42 PM
What do you think the people currently receiving forms of government support will do without any?

See, that's where liberalism comes into play in the private sector. That's where liberals put their money where their mouths are and help those in need. I personally have helped alot of people over the year's that way. We don't need government to help others in need. They are way too inefficient and often corrupt trying to manage these things. The mortgage mess of trying to help the underpriviledged is a great example of government mismanagement and corruption.

It nearly brought down our economy!

splatbass
10-17-2008, 10:47 PM
I just believe from my personal experience, wealth redistribution is wrong.

Do you think it is wrong when it is distributed upward, as in the Reagan/Bush way of cutting taxes on the wealthy and letting the rest of us pay for it, or do you just think it is wrong when it is taken from the wealthy and given to the poor? Because we have been living under wealth redistribution from Bush for years.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 10:50 PM
What do you think the people currently receiving forms of government support will do without any?

A good many would have to turn to private charity.

They might just learn to say "thank you" rather than "**** you."

That'd be a start.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 10:55 PM
A good many would have to turn to private charity.

They might just learn to say "thank you" rather than "**** you."

That'd be a start.

So you'd put people in need in a position of begging for help?

BucEyedPea
10-17-2008, 10:57 PM
I don't see that. The only thing I see from him that could be interpreted as socialism is health care and not really.

Not really? ROFL Unbelievable the denial by some folks.
What about free college?

And the stagnant wages banyon talks about, he can thing govt intervention for that.

banyon
10-17-2008, 10:58 PM
Not really? ROFL Unbelievable the denial by some folks.
What about free college?

And the stagnant wages banyon talks about, he can thing govt intervention for that.

Why don't you directly address what I said or STFU ?

BucEyedPea
10-17-2008, 10:59 PM
No Comrade. I call a sickle a sickle.

It's ideology and dogma when we do it but it's not ideology and dogma when he does it. Yeah right!

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:03 PM
So you'd put people in need in a position of begging for help?

Rather than demanding it?

Yep.

In a heartbeat.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:05 PM
So you'd put people in need in a position of begging for help?

Let's try it softer:

Rather than expecting that they are entitled to it?

Yep.

In a heartbeat.

Does that sit any better with you?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:07 PM
Let's try it a bit harsher:

Rather than letting them steal it from the people who have it?

Yep.

In a heartbeat.

I'm willing to go any way you want with this one.

banyon
10-17-2008, 11:10 PM
A good many would have to turn to private charity.

They might just learn to say "thank you" rather than "**** you."

That'd be a start.

That's kind of naiive don't you think?

They might say something besides thank you.

SBK
10-17-2008, 11:12 PM
If anyone wants to know what the end effect of government handouts are I urge you to visit South Atlanta.

Be sure to arm yourself to the teeth and wear Kevlar while you're at it.

The attitude, and acceptance of doing nothing, the entitlement that the community down there has blows my mind. I'm new to it since I grew up in Des Moines, but it's tragic and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Government handouts have destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people there in a huge, but indirect way.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:13 PM
That's kind of naiive don't you think?

They might say something besides thank you.

Darn.

I guess they wouldn't get their stuff next week.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:14 PM
It's time to teach people why they are failures.

That's going to require that they learn humility.

banyon
10-17-2008, 11:16 PM
Darn.

I guess they wouldn't get their stuff next week.

They might "get their stuff" by some other method.

J Diddy
10-17-2008, 11:17 PM
Darn.

I guess they wouldn't get their stuff next week.


How do you feel on abortion?

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:17 PM
They might "get their stuff" by some other method.

They'll have a chance if your party can figure a way to take away my arms.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:19 PM
Besides, I think that most will come begging, not armed.

ClevelandBronco
10-17-2008, 11:32 PM
banyon, if your point is that we need to give government-sponsored extortion payments to our less privileged citizens to keep them from killing us and stealing our stuff, you probably have less faith in our population than I do.

That may be the most ****ed up view of the American character that I've ever read.

J Diddy
10-18-2008, 12:18 AM
banyon, if your point is that we need to give government-sponsored extortion payments to our less privileged citizens to keep them from killing us and stealing our stuff, you probably have less faith in our population than I do.

That may be the most ****ed up view of the American character that I've ever read.


what about honest people who can't fend for themselves

ClevelandBronco
10-18-2008, 12:48 AM
what about honest people who can't fend for themselves

They can ask for help and say "thank you." I thought I was pretty clear about that.

KCJohnny
10-18-2008, 01:40 AM
If anyone wants to know what the end effect of government handouts are I urge you to visit South Atlanta.

Be sure to arm yourself to the teeth and wear Kevlar while you're at it.

The attitude, and acceptance of doing nothing, the entitlement that the community down there has blows my mind. I'm new to it since I grew up in Des Moines, but it's tragic and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Government handouts have destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people there in a huge, but indirect way.

Gunny is telling it like it is, folks. :clap:

penchief
10-18-2008, 08:40 AM
It's ideology and dogma when we do it but it's not ideology and dogma when he does it. Yeah right!

For one thing, I don't think there is any extreme ideology in my statements. I'm not even sure he read them. My primary point was about creating jobs and investing in our infrastructure. How that turns into communism, I'm not sure. All I want is a little common sense and a little balance restored to the system.

However, it is dogmatic to claim that everything that is not in line with your ideological purity is somehow communist or socialist. Extreme right wing ideology has been the cause of our mess and how that makes doing something different automatically a bad thing sounds unreasonable to me.

alanm
10-18-2008, 09:01 AM
The things I've heard Obama say about people having accountability and getting off of their asses, I like.

My problem is that his policies don't seem to support that.

There is a relatively new company in my area, a relatively significant number of new jobs. I was part of meetings that brought them here. They're having trouble keeping about 50% staff, because after 3-4 weeks, people realize that they're making enough that they'll....hold on....wait for it......"Lose their benefits" and quit.

The younger generation has been so pampered, and pandered to and told that they were "special" and there is soooooooo much entitlement attitude, that even in a farming community, too many don't even know HOW to work, let alone take pride in it.

I can't even imagine what its like in cities.
I see that out here also. The young 20 somethings have no work ethic, none, nada, zip. Guys I talk to say their young kids always call in sick. And are always amazed when they get shitcanned for attendance.
Guess living with Mommy still fosters that attitude. Mommy needs to kick their asses to the curb and force the majority to grow up.
It's amazing. :spock:

banyon
10-18-2008, 09:39 AM
banyon, if your point is that we need to give government-sponsored extortion payments to our less privileged citizens to keep them from killing us and stealing our stuff, you probably have less faith in our population than I do.

That may be the most ****ed up view of the American character that I've ever read.

I'm talking about a basic safety net. That's my point. We shouldn't have children going hungry in one of the wealthiest countries in the world just so some intellectuals can feel smug about having a pure market ideology.

Frankie
10-18-2008, 11:30 AM
Investing in our infrastructure and creating jobs is a smart thing to do. There will actually be a return on that investment for all Americans. To me, it's a real example of putting country first by investing in our country instead of just paying lip service to a bunch of slogans while throwing taxpayer money away to corporate entities, business crooks, and war profiteers.

Empowering the consumer base is the way to create demand which will create markets. When people have good paying jobs they have disposable income which allows them options and opportunities in life. They can make choices. Through those choices they generate economic activity which creates markets for others to provide real goods and services. Those who do the best job of providing goods and services rise to the top of the heap.

Trickle Down class warfare and corporate welfare DO NOT WORK. Growing the economy from the bottom up creates a consumer base that offers real opportunities for everyone, including the top 1%. Tax payer money is much better spent on creating a permanent foundation for an empowered consumer base than extending to the wealthiest and most powerful the leverage to consolidate wealth and monopolize the market. That ideology has been what has led us to our current debacle.
EXCELLENT POST. Trickle down economy says the tree should flower so the blooms can feed the roots. Asinine!

Calcountry
10-18-2008, 11:53 AM
I'm glad liberals and progressives didn't take that attitude when the righties in this country catapulted the most incompetent, ideological, and corrupt candidate of our time to the presidency. All we did was dissent and still had to take mountains of bullshit from the lock-step sheep on the right.Did you pay your fair share?

Calcountry
10-18-2008, 11:55 AM
You guys did the same with Clinton so I have no doubt you will do all you can to undermine the office of the presidency once again.No, we won't be able to because they are going after free speech in this country.

The fairness doctrine will be the first thing they pass.

Calcountry
10-18-2008, 11:56 AM
Ah, the old "Take my ball and go home" attitude.

That's what made this country great!

:rolleyes:Why did you have to confiscate the ball? Go ahead and play with it by yourself.

Calcountry
10-18-2008, 11:57 AM
Who is you guys? BTW Clinton is a saint compared to this guy.I would happily have a Clinton right now.

Frankie
10-18-2008, 12:28 PM
So we're going to act like petulant children?.....
No way. No, thanks. We're the party of the grownups, my friend.

So pettiness, changing the subject and sticking fingers in ears and going "la, la, la, la, la, la" is a grown up thing....... Got it.

Frankie
10-18-2008, 12:34 PM
http://bestobamafacts.com/

You get your "facts" from this lame website? No wonder!

Frankie
10-18-2008, 12:42 PM
wow...

Someone sounds like he's been kicked in the goocher.

When hoperah's president, I won't like it, but I seriously doubt I'll throw a 4-8 year tizzy fit like the left has with dubya.

If Obama f*@ks it up so totally like Duhbya has, you should. I tell you what, I'll join you. But my bet is it's real hard to be that incompetence.