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View Full Version : Elections Are McCain & GOP using innuendo to tie Obama to Arab Terrorism & black stereotypes?


jAZ
10-18-2008, 11:13 PM
Do you believe the McCain campaign or the Republican Party trying to use innuendo or other techniques to tie Obama to Arab terrorism & negative stereotypes?

HolmeZz
10-18-2008, 11:18 PM
I haven't seen anything put out specifically by the McCain Campaign or by the RNC that plays on any black stereotypes.

Trying to link Obama to the word 'terrorism' and continually having people use his middle name during their introductions at rallies is clear innuendo(if that's not an oxymoron).

DaFace
10-19-2008, 12:01 AM
I'd go with a "maybe" option, but I voted no. They're doing it here and there with the Hussein thing, and a few nutjobs are doing it more blatantly, but I don't think it's any focused effort by the campaign to portray him as a terrorist.

I don't recall the campaign itself doing anything that would portray his being black negatively. That would be stupidity of epic proportions.

Logical
10-19-2008, 12:03 AM
I'd go with a "maybe" option, but I voted no. They're doing it here and there with the Hussein thing, and a few nutjobs are doing it more blatantly, but I don't think it's any focused effort by the campaign to portray him as a terrorist.

I don't recall the campaign itself doing anything that would portray his being black negatively. That would be stupidity of epic proportions.I wonder what you think of Palin's daily speeches?

DaFace
10-19-2008, 12:04 AM
I wonder what you think of Palin's daily speeches?

I admit I haven't watched them closely, but the ones I've seen have been trying to tie him to Ayers. He's not an "Arab terrorist", and that's not "innuendo."

Donger
10-19-2008, 12:05 AM
No. Don't be stupid.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:23 AM
Nope .........

Associating him with a terrorist ( Ayers ) is fine, it is what it is.
The Adinga charges are / would be misleading to some extent.

All the race stuff has been been brought up by Obama.

The Hussein stuff is could be over blown, it is his name. Why cry if your name is Hussein. Don't like your name, " change " it .

HolmeZz
10-19-2008, 12:25 AM
I admit I haven't watched them closely, but the ones I've seen have been trying to tie him to Ayers. He's not an "Arab terrorist", and that's not "innuendo."

Most of the people they're playing to don't care about Ayers or have a real clue about him. The word they're paying attention to is 'terrorist', and Palin went a week where every day she implied Obama was palling around with terrorists(plural). They also went a stretch of events during that same time period where the people who were introducing McCain or Palin would refer to Obama as 'Hussein' during their remarks.

HolmeZz
10-19-2008, 12:26 AM
Nope .........

Associating him with a terrorist ( Ayers ) is fine, it is what it is.
The Adinga charges are / would be misleading to some extent.

All the race stuff has been been brought up by Obama.

The Hussein stuff is could be over blown, it is his name. Why cry if your name is Hussein. Don't like your name, " change " it .

Holy shit Roy, your signature is 'Obama bin Lyin'.

I hope all the racists come out of the shadows the next 17 days or so. Should be fun.

Donger
10-19-2008, 12:28 AM
Holy shit Roy, your signature is 'Obama bin Lyin'.

I hope all the racists come out of the shadows the next 17 days or so. Should be fun.

What is racist about "Obama bin Lyin'"?

Logical
10-19-2008, 12:34 AM
What is racist about "Obama bin Lyin'"?I think you know "Donger bin baitin"

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:35 AM
Holy shit Roy, your signature is 'Obama bin Lyin'.

I hope all the racists come out of the shadows the next 17 days or so. Should be fun.


Well, He has Bin Lyin ;)

Surley you are not calling me racist ?

Donger
10-19-2008, 12:37 AM
I think you know "Donger bin baitin"

No, I really don't. It's clearly a play on "Osama bin Laden," but I fail to see how that is racist at all.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:43 AM
With 5 grand kids that are biracial and just coming home from a basketball game Thursday night from a county next to us that is racist, that would be an over statement.

The team we were playing, 8th grade girls, the crowd started chanting, Niggers go home to our girls. Of whom were a mixed 50 - 50 black and white girls , with our grand daughter on it. Needless to say, the cops were called in and I was right in the middle of it.

The school bus got vandalized , Niggers go home.

So seriously, nobody can call me racist.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 12:45 AM
No, I really don't. It's clearly a play on "Osama bin Laden," but I fail to see how that is racist at all.
It's the "Arab Terrorim" part.

J Diddy
10-19-2008, 12:45 AM
With 5 grand kids that are biracial and just coming home from a basketball game Thursday night from a county next to us that is racist, that would be an over statement.

The team we were playing, 8th grade girls, the crowd started chanting, ****ers go home to our girls. Of whom were a mixed 50 - 50 black and white girls , with our grand daughter on it. Needless to say, the cops were called in and I was right in the middle of it.

The school bus got vandalized , ****ers go home.

So seriously, nobody can call me racist.


So because you stood up to 8th grade girls while others were vandalizing their bus you aren't racist? Seems to me your efforts would have been better served guarding the bus.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:50 AM
It's the "Arab Terrorim" part.


FTR, I don't vision Obama and Arabs terrorist as an issue, I put it up because of the lying part of his campaign.

If it piss's off the left because of the Arab terrorists, shame on them, it's not meant to be that way.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 12:53 AM
FTR, I don't vision Obama and Arabs terrorist as an issue, I put it up because of the lying part of his campaign.

If it piss's off the left because of the Arab terrorists, shame on them, it's not meant to be that way.
Yeah, that might make sense if you didn't embed the liar reference into a reference to the world's most famous Arab Terrorist?

I guess when no one believes anything you say, it gives you the freedom to act as if everyone is stupid and just say anything.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:53 AM
So because you stood up to 8th grade girls while others were vandalizing their bus you aren't racist? Seems to me your efforts would have been better served guarding the bus.


While she was playing ball and my biracial grand son was in the stands ?

Nice one, wanna try again ........

What makes this whole ordeal stupid is they had 2 biracial girls on their team. One girl was better than any girl out there, she had game . We couldn't stop her, but a 1 girl team does not beat a 5 girl team.

The school let their guard down by not keeping somebody with thew bus.

Donger
10-19-2008, 12:56 AM
It's the "Arab Terrorim" part.

That's amusing. I don't think of insinuating someone is Arabic as being "racist."

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 12:57 AM
Yeah, that might make sense if you didn't embed the liar reference into a reference to the world's most famous Arab Terrorist?

I guess when no one believes anything you say, it gives you the freedom to act as if everyone is stupid and just say anything.

Believe what you wish, you are the one backing Obama, not me.

Again, it is what it is. If Obama was a liar I would have it up. He is a slick talker and talks his way out of heated discussions. He deflects and keeps the same story to deflect anything of question. There are times he alters his story, but he has practiced his lies so well , Only Obots believe him.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:01 AM
Night guys, I'm off to bed so I can attend my grand son's baptism tomorrow . OBTW, it's in a black missionary church, just 1/2 block away from us.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 01:04 AM
Believe what you wish, you are the one backing Obama, not me.

Again, it is what it is. If Obama was a liar I would have it up. He is a slick talker and talks his way out of heated discussions. He deflects and keeps the same story to deflect anything of question. There are times he alters his story, but he has practiced his lies so well , Only Obots believe him.
RoyC Bin Lyin

Logical
10-19-2008, 01:04 AM
No, I really don't. It's clearly a play on "Osama bin Laden," but I fail to see how that is racist at all.Do Arabs represent a race? Implying all are terrorists by using the Obama bin reference seems racist. I assume you were thinking racism towards only blacks.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:05 AM
RoyC Bin Lyin

Nite Obot # 2. :D

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:06 AM
Do Arabs represent a race? Implying all are terrorists by using the Obama bin reference seems racist. I assume you were thinking racism towards only blacks.


Damn, didn't get to bed quick enuff .........

Seriously, do you see it this way. I'm just asking ,as a friend.

Donger
10-19-2008, 01:07 AM
Do Arabs represent a race? Implying all are terrorists by using the Obama bin reference seems racist. I assume you were thinking racism towards only blacks.

I assume Roy was using that name because it is one with which he is familiar, and it sort of rhymes. I still think of the IRA when I think of terrorists.

If I wrote, "Paddy O'bama," would that insinuate that Barack Hussein was Irish?

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:09 AM
If I changed it to Ben or Been, would that change it ?

jAZ
10-19-2008, 01:09 AM
That's amusing. I don't think of insinuating someone is Arabic as being "racist."
I didn't say that. However, I don't know why you wouldn't. Black and white aren't the only races.

In fact, John McCain's constant "Gook" references lead to this book...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51zxaZMQv-L._SS500_.jpg

Logical
10-19-2008, 01:10 AM
Damn, didn't get to bed quick enuff .........

Seriously, do you see it this way. I'm just asking ,as a friend.Sorry Roy I do. Like Big Daddy I know in the traditional sense neither of you are racist, but there is more than one kind of racism, at the very least bigotry.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:11 AM
Sorry Roy I do. Like Big Daddy I know in the traditional sense neither of you are racist, but there is more than one kind of racism, at the very least bigotry.

I value your opinion Jim, does this change it ?

BTW,No need to be sorry.

Logical
10-19-2008, 01:11 AM
If I changed it to Ben or Been, would that change it ?Yes, I know your good heart and understand. Some won't.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:15 AM
Yes, I know your good heart and understand. Some won't.

I can live with this.

BTW, what ever happened to this ? ( Screw U if U can't take a joke ) I think many on here should live by this rule on a BB before flying off the quick end, I know this includes me as well .:doh!:

Night Jim.......

jAZ
10-19-2008, 01:22 AM
If I changed it to Ben or Been, would that change it ?
The "Bin" changes everything about it, though how you can suggest you didn't understand that before now seems hard to believe.

Logical
10-19-2008, 01:24 AM
I can live with this.

BTW, what ever happened to this ? ( Screw U if U can't take a joke ) I think many on here should live by this rule on a BB before flying off the quick end, I know this includes me as well .:doh!:

Night Jim.......Night Roy, I think people become sensitive during an election.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 03:30 AM
With 5 grand kids that are biracial and just coming home from a basketball game Thursday night from a county next to us that is racist, that would be an over statement.

The team we were playing, 8th grade girls, the crowd started chanting, ****ers go home to our girls. Of whom were a mixed 50 - 50 black and white girls , with our grand daughter on it. Needless to say, the cops were called in and I was right in the middle of it.

The school bus got vandalized , ****ers go home.

So seriously, nobody can call me racist.

Lots of non-racists are using racism to advance their agenda in this election.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 08:45 AM
The "Bin" changes everything about it, though how you can suggest you didn't understand that before now seems hard to believe.

I didn't say I didn't, I asked if others seen it this way.

Again, I put it up for his continual lying he does with the same answers. When you lie enough the same way, people believe it.

Ask Obama about Ayers involvement, he wants to make it sound like he had something to do with it 40 years ago. Nobody has accused him of this , this is Obama lying and deflecting the answers.

Then he will tell you he is not part of his campaign or that he doesn't advise my campaign . Again,Nobody has accused him of this , this is Obama lying and deflecting the answers, he wants to turn the question around, a trademark of a professional liar .

Then he will tell you he is a professor , of English, Of who I know, a guy in my neighborhood of whom I have met. Obama again, diverts the question, doesn't tell you the whole story, just bits and pieces, enough to cover his butt, turn the question around, taking a negative question that he doesn't want to answer, turning it into a positive. He doesn't tell you about the connections of Ayers, Rev. Wright, Malcom X, Adinga in his school movement. He doesn't mention how Ayers was more than a guy in his neighborhood or that his education project becoming a radical movement instead about school reform. Or that he gave ACORN money out of this education project. He failed in this project, it failed, he doesn't mention this. He doesn't mention the date of when he found out about Ayers either. He does offer the date he dropped his Muslim faith and took up Christianity, in reality it was when he met Michelle, it was a priority on her part for their relationship.

The list goes on with Obama as a liar, he has become involved with winning the election he deflects all questions into attacks from the media or from a person. He simply can't tell the truth during these questions, he has a lot to hide to the people.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 08:47 AM
Night Roy, I think people become sensitive during an election.

This is true Jim. When it comes to their candidate of choice, it's always been this way. Especially if you are talking to someone that is much younger, they get ticked off quickly over it when an elder disagrees with them.

Thanks for being honest and understanding ....... a trademark that usually comes with age.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 08:51 AM
Lots of non-racists are using racism to advance their agenda in this election.

Some, maybe, I dunno, can't speak for them, I can only say for myself.

My issues are with his continual lying over his past,it's always the same answers, always deflecting the questions and taking a talking point, spinning it around with a question.

Answering questions with a question is a valid deflecting tactic to questioning. Reverse mofo is this man's profession.

Jenson71
10-19-2008, 08:56 AM
What Obama wants to wear when he is sworn-in:

Please send to friends and family members. Must stop radical express.

Jenson71
10-19-2008, 09:01 AM
FTR, I don't vision Obama and Arabs terrorist as an issue, I put it up because of the lying part of his campaign.

If it piss's off the left because of the Arab terrorists, shame on them, it's not meant to be that way.

So the similarity between "Obama been lying" and "Osama bin Laden" were sheer coincidence?

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 09:06 AM
So the similarity between "Obama been lying" and "Osama bin Laden" were sheer coincidence?

Their was a similarity, but again, to me, I didn't take it that way. I saw it on a campaign sign at a McCain rally on TV. I liked the Lyin part because, HE DOES. This is what I have been talking about for sometime, other than I do not like his vision on the issues or the direction he will take our country.

Jim said it best, people are too sensitive during elections.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 09:12 AM
Maybe I should just change it again for all of the pussies ?:deevee:You are picking on my candidate.:deevee:

I need to make a video of that idiot Brittany Spears lover did......


LEAVE OBAMA ALONE

:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

banyon
10-19-2008, 09:26 AM
Maybe I should just change it again for all of the pussies ?:deevee:You are picking on my candidate.:deevee:

I need to make a video of that idiot Brittany Spears lover did......


LEAVE OBAMA ALONE

:deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

I don't give a s*** what you do with it. Print out a copy of it on your printer and shove it up your a** for all I care.

Just don't pretend "Oh, what do you mean Muslim innuendo? I'm innocent (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). My hands are clean, see?" when they are stained brown.

Jenson71
10-19-2008, 09:30 AM
Their was a similarity, but again, to me, I didn't take it that way. I saw it on a campaign sign at a McCain rally on TV. I liked the Lyin part because, HE DOES. This is what I have been talking about for sometime, other than I do not like his vision on the issues or the direction he will take our country.

Jim said it best, people are too sensitive during elections.

Yes, because associating our next president with the person who orchestrated the most devasting terrorist attacks on American citizens is just a funny little joke, isn't it?

Arising the fear out of ignorant voters that Obama has Muslim blood and wants American destroyed is just all in the game, right, Roy?

Americans should be free to display their ignorance, however they see fit, right? Roy, that's not freedom. That's a tyranny of a ignorance, and you can either choose to perpuate it with your "innocent little signature" or work to eliminate it.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 01:53 PM
My issues are with his continual lying over his past...
What exactly is his lie and what is the truth which makes anything he's said a lie?

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 01:55 PM
What exactly is his lie and what is the truth which makes anything he's said a lie?

Post 37 for starters ....... FTR, I can't go into everyone, too many. I don't have that much time to devote to a worthless cause, it won't change anything or any obots.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 02:03 PM
Post 37 for starters ....... FTR, I can't go into everyone, too many. I don't have that much time to devote to a worthless cause, it won't change anything or any obots.

Based on post #37, I would have to assume that you are lying to us about what a lie is, in order to call him a "liar" rather than the less impactful "deflector".

Those examples, every one of them that I read in that post, are at worst an example of Obama deflecting or reframing the discussion.

None of them, not a single one of them, can accurately be called a lie in any way.

And to make my point clearer, I will ask you again, to identify the lie and the truth. Be clear, and if you need retype them succinctly here.

You won't do that, because you can't do that, because there are not lies in your previously post, and I don't think you can identify an actual lie as an example inside or outside of that post #37.

But prove me wrong, please.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Based on post #37, I would have to assume that you are lying to us about what a lie is, in order to call him a "liar" rather than the less impactful "deflector".

Those examples, every one of them that I read in that post, are at worst an example of Obama deflecting or reframing the discussion.

None of them, not a single one of them, can accurately be called a lie in any way.

And to make my point clearer, I will ask you again, to identify the lie and the truth. Be clear, and if you need retype them succinctly here.

You won't do that, because you can't do that, because there are not lies in your previously post, and I don't think you can identify an actual lie as an example inside or outside of that post #37.

But prove me wrong, please.

Guess we will do this one by one then...... I'll let you spin it around before going to another one.

Obama claims he was 8 years old when the bombings took place, he claims Ayers isn't involved or will be involved with his campaign . His misconception about all of this is a lie, NOBODY HAS RAISED THIS ISSUE. Obama's comments are a bold face lie to the people.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 02:30 PM
I haven't seen anything put out specifically by the McCain Campaign or by the RNC that plays on any black stereotypes.
I've been meaning to go back to this when I had time to dig these references up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/03/gergen-mccain-is-using-co_n_116605.html

[B]On Sunday, longtime Washington hand David Gergen took umbrage with John McCain's recent attack ads, charging that the Senator was using coded messaging to paint Barack Obama as "outside the mainstream" and "uppity."

"There has been a very intentional effort to paint him as somebody outside the mainstream, other, 'he's not one of us,'" said Gergen, who has worked with White Houses, both Republican and Democrat, from Nixon to Clinton. "I think the McCain campaign has been scrupulous about not directly saying it, but it's the subtext of this campaign. Everybody knows that. There are certain kinds of signals. As a native of the south, I can tell you, when you see this Charlton Heston ad, 'The One,' that's code for, 'he's uppity, he ought to stay in his place.' Everybody gets that who is from a southern background. We all understand that. When McCain comes out and starts talking about affirmative action, 'I'm against quotas,' we get what that's about."

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/westmoreland-calls-obama-uppity-2008-09-04.html

Westmoreland calls Obama ‘uppity'
By Mike Soraghan

Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland used the racially-tinged term "uppity" to describe Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama Thursday.

Westmoreland was discussing vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech with reporters outside the House chamber and was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.

"Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said.

Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”

Then there's the Harold Ford 2.0 ad, designed for national consumption (ie, more dog whistley)...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/opinion/02herbert.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Gee, I wonder why, if you have a black man running for high public office — say, Barack Obama or Harold Ford — the opposition feels compelled to run low-life political ads featuring tacky, sexually provocative white women who have no connection whatsoever to the black male candidates. [...]

Now, from the hapless but increasingly venomous McCain campaign, comes the slimy Britney Spears and Paris Hilton ad. The two highly sexualized women (both notorious for displaying themselves to the paparazzi while not wearing underwear) are shown briefly and incongruously at the beginning of a commercial critical of Mr. Obama.

The Republican National Committee targeted Harold Ford with a similarly disgusting ad in 2006 when Mr. Ford, then a congressman, was running a strong race for a U.S. Senate seat in Tennessee. The ad, which the committee described as a parody, showed a scantily clad woman whispering, “Harold, call me.”

Both ads were foul, poisonous and emanated from the upper reaches of the Republican Party. (What a surprise.) Both were designed to exploit the hostility, anxiety and resentment of the many white Americans who are still freakishly hung up on the idea of black men rising above their station and becoming sexually involved with white women.

vailpass
10-19-2008, 02:35 PM
What a bunch of weeping vaginas. I hope to hell if the candidate you guys support is elected he has more balls and backbone than you are showing here.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 02:43 PM
Obama claims he was 8 years old when the bombings took place,
Obama telling a truth.
he claims Ayers isn't involved or will (not) be involved with his campaign
Obama telling a truth.
NOBODY HAS RAISED THIS ISSUE
Agreed, Roy is telling a truth here.

To this point in your post, not a single lie has been spoken by Obama or you. But wait for it...
Obama's comments are a bold face lie to the people.
There's the lie. Roy you are claiming that factual statements are lies. That's a lie on your part. As you said in your prior post, (and I will fully admit this is true in the example you are giving... Obama is "deflecting the questions" by providing statements that don't directly respond to the point. Deflecting isn't a lie, it's often a method of avoiding a lie.

To claim that every act of reframing a question into a form you prefer to answer is a "lie" is to lie yourself. It's deflecting to avoid a lie (or an embarassing situation).

Making this the basis of your objection to Obama is ridiculous though. Reframing issues is a standard action by even modest politicians. Remember how Palin treated the debate? Refusing to even try to answer questions, and just launching off into completely unrelated topics. That's far less respectful than trying to at least modestly address the question asked.

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 02:55 PM
Of course they are, indirectly, subtly, and through surrogates.

Just like the Dems would have done to Romney and his religious life, had he been the Republican nominee.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 03:01 PM
Of course they are, indirectly, subtly, and through surrogates.

Just like the Dems would have done to Romney and his religious life, had he been the Republican nominee.

You can't even find an actual false equiviancy, you've got a fabricate one up out of the space-time continum.

Nicely done! :thumb:

***SPRAYER
10-19-2008, 03:02 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Arab_sm.gif

Donger
10-19-2008, 03:03 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Arab_sm.gif

ROFL

That's not right.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Roy you are claiming that factual statements are lies. That's a lie on your part. As you said in your prior post, (and I will fully admit this is true in the example you are giving... Obama is "deflecting the questions" by providing statements that don't directly respond to the point. Deflecting isn't a lie, it's often a method of avoiding a lie.
Now it's possible in a situation like this for a candidate to commit of lie of omission. That's what the Bush Administration did by selling the war with cherry picked information, omiting the information that would have created a more accurate and complete picture of the lack of justification for the war.

And it's what I've asked you to identify for me in this thread. What is the actual thing that Obama is lying about? Even in the form of omission? Because he's not directly lying about anything, IMO. But McCain wants us to believe that there is much more to the Ayers/Obama relationship and he's demanding that Obama be honest about it.

I want to know what facts or assumptions does McCain have that there is some major unreported detail about this relationship that Obama is omiting and thus lying about?

(Now that I've bailed you out and given you the answer you are trying to come up with, I'm going to point out how pathetic your effort on this thread has been. Even the McCain campaign can identify lie-by-omission as their building block (however false their assertion are IMO), at least they know what they are trying to say. You are just blindly parroting their talking points without even completely understanding them.)

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 03:41 PM
Obama telling a truth.

Obama telling a truth.

Agreed, Roy is telling a truth here.

To this point in your post, not a single lie has been spoken by Obama or you. But wait for it...

There's the lie. Roy you are claiming that factual statements are lies. That's a lie on your part. As you said in your prior post, (and I will fully admit this is true in the example you are giving... Obama is "deflecting the questions" by providing statements that don't directly respond to the point. Deflecting isn't a lie, it's often a method of avoiding a lie.

To claim that every act of reframing a question into a form you prefer to answer is a "lie" is to lie yourself. It's deflecting to avoid a lie (or an embarassing situation).

Making this the basis of your objection to Obama is ridiculous though. Reframing issues is a standard action by even modest politicians. Remember how Palin treated the debate? Refusing to even try to answer questions, and just launching off into completely unrelated topics. That's far less respectful than trying to at least modestly address the question asked.

No, you have this wrong, Obama is lie about the 8 yr old involvement, campaign involvement, nobody has questioned him. To deflect the question is a guilt of not answering something that could be harmful to his campaign.

Let's move on .......

# 2 How about Obama started his campaign in Ayers living room ? Obama said it didn't happen, when another member who was there, said it did.

Plus Obama lied about him meeting Ayers until he was selected for the Annenburg Project. Obama lied again, he met Ayers several months before, there are some conflicting reports that they met in 1988 at a community fund raiser event.

Your turn to spin it .........

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 03:44 PM
Now it's possible in a situation like this for a candidate to commit of lie of omission. That's what the Bush Administration did by selling the war with cherry picked information, omiting the information that would have created a more accurate and complete picture of the lack of justification for the war.

And it's what I've asked you to identify for me in this thread. What is the actual thing that Obama is lying about? Even in the form of omission? Because he's not directly lying about anything, IMO. But McCain wants us to believe that there is much more to the Ayers/Obama relationship and he's demanding that Obama be honest about it.

I want to know what facts or assumptions does McCain have that there is some major unreported detail about this relationship that Obama is omiting and thus lying about?

(Now that I've bailed you out and given you the answer you are trying to come up with, I'm going to point out how pathetic your effort on this thread has been. Even the McCain campaign can identify lie-by-omission as their building block (however false their assertion are IMO), at least they know what they are trying to say. You are just blindly parroting their talking points without even completely understanding them.)

McCain doesn't act as thou he is a saint,the messiah, The One, etc. as the crowd does or he does.

McCain has several flaws, I do not agree with either. You want to attack him, be my guess, I can't defend some of the things he stands for or has done.

Does McCain lie too, of course, doesn't all politicians?

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 03:45 PM
Look,like I said, I am busy to day with all of my activities, we can finish this up later, I have to do yard work for Halloween, some honey doo's ......

Later .

HonestChieffan
10-19-2008, 03:56 PM
No. He has an arabic sounding name. Blame his folks. He is Black. McCain didnt name him or make him black.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 04:00 PM
No, you have this wrong, Obama is lie about the 8 yr old involvement, campaign involvement, nobody has questioned him. To deflect the question is a guilt of not answering something that could be harmful to his campaign.
That's definately deflection. Deflection is not lying. Your assertion that it is is either a gross misunderstanding of the word lie, or a lie on your part, in order to use the more dramatic verb (lie) over the less dramatic one (deflection).

Let's move on .......
Would this be your attempt to deflect? Kidding! :p

# 2 How about Obama started his campaign in Ayers living room ? Obama said it didn't happen, when another member who was there, said it did.
Ok, now we are making progress!

This is an issue worthy of discussion because it's at least in the area of the core of this issue.

Read this as it turns out that the information you are basing you "lie" comment on is not only tenous, but only part of the story.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/ayers_alone_did_not_launch_oba.html

McCain misleading public in role Ayers played in Obama political career
By Lynn Sweet on October 15, 2008 8:30 AM | Permalink | Comments (60)

WASHINGTON--Barack Obama continues to be attacked by John McCain and other Republicans for his relationship with Bill Ayers, the former terrorist turned respected Chicago educator. Obama served on civic boards with Ayers and Ayers held a coffee for Obama when Obama first ran for a state senate seat in 1995. McCain said he may bring up Ayers at the third and final presidential debate Wednesday night.

Obama said McCain--running ads featuring Ayers with Sarah Palin making him an issue on the stump--never said anything to his face. Ayers did not came up in the first two presidential debates. If McCain continues to insist that Obama launched his political career from Ayers' Hyde Park living room, he is misleading the public by overplaying the size and significance of Ayers' early support.

*Obama's campaign really was launched when he got the backing of then state Sen. Alice Palmer (D-Chicago), who wanted him to replace her as she was planning a run for Congress. Palmer's backing gave him entrée into local influential political circles.

Obama and Palmer would later have a falling out that continues to this day. Palmer changed her mind and decided to run for re-election after all. Obama got Palmer and his other rivals knocked off the ballot. Palmer ended up backing Hillary Rodham Clinton's Democratic primary bid.

*Obama's formal kick-off to announce his run for state senate was at the Hyde Park Ramada Inn on Sept. 19, 1995. Obama was introduced by Palmer in a room filled with supporters at the Ramada
, fronting Lake Michigan on South Lake Shore Drive, a stroll from the Museum of Science and Industry.

*Around this time, Obama started to attend a series of coffees in the Hyde Park community where he lived, standard operating procedure for political rookies running in the neighborhoods surrounding the University of Chicago.

"I was certainly (hosting) one of the first," said Rabbi Arnold Jacob Wolf, rabbi emeritus at Chicago's KAM Isaiah Israel--located across the street from the Obama home.

"There were several every week," he recalled on Tuesday night when we spoke. "I remember what I said to him: 'Someday you are going to be vice president of the United States.' He laughed and said, 'Why not president?'''

*The Ackermans, Sam and Martha, longtime Hyde Park activists in independent Democratic politics, also held an early event for Obama in their condo on E. Hyde Park Boulevard. (They have since divorced.)

Sam Ackerman told me Tuesday when we exchanged e-mails that "as I recall, the event at Bill Ayers' house (prior to ours) was a fund-raiser for Alice's congressional campaign at which she also introduced Barack as the successor she would like to see elected."

If Ackerman's recollection is correct--that the event at Ayers home was really for Palmer and Obama just piggy backed on it--then any argument that the Obama's political career was launched in the Ayers home is moot.

Martha and I talked on Tuesday night and she said she was not sure if the coffee at their condo for about 20 people was before or after Obama's Ramada Inn announcement.

"As a starter, I know that Barack went to Alice Palmer," Martha Ackerman told me. "...Then the question was, 'how do you go about doing this in the Hyde Park way," she said, a reference to the personal touch needed in the Hyde Park- Kenwood neighborhoods, at the time immune to the dictates of the remnants of the Chicago machine and Mayor Daley's City Hall.

"...the way to launch the campaign was to have coffee, and not one coffee, as in 'this is the start of everything.' Barack went around to a number of people and requested that they hold coffees for him."

But the Ackerman's did not want to host an event for Obama without meeting him first. So he came over to their house and spent more than an hour with the couple.

When Obama left, "I said to Sam, 'this guy could be the first African American president of the United States."

Martha Ackerman said, "I know there were a number of coffees. It wasn't just one or two."

So it's not at all clear that there is anything to base the claim of a lie upon. Obama's story and McCain's claims don't really conflict at the level of detail they are both offering.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 04:03 PM
McCain doesn't act as thou he is a saint,the messiah, The One, etc. as the crowd does or he does.

McCain has several flaws, I do not agree with either. You want to attack him, be my guess, I can't defend some of the things he stands for or has done.

Does McCain lie too, of course, doesn't all politicians?
So what are you attacking Obama and not McCain as if this is the deciding factor for you?

Why can't you see this objectively without being pressured into admissions?

Why do you start out from the position that Obama's guilty (whether or not that's true) and then when pressed about McCain, then it becomes a "all politicians" thing.

Seems pretty hap-hazzard, as if you have an agenda to take down Obama and you are willing to attach yourself to any half-truth to justify it.

Adept Havelock
10-19-2008, 08:33 PM
Seems pretty hap-hazzard, as if you have an agenda to take down Obama and you are willing to attach yourself to any half-truth to justify it.

I recall I recently pointed out Roy is quick to embrace any attack on Obama, no matter how far-fetched.

I also pointed out that made him nothing more than the flip side of the "You O-Bots won't believe anything bad about The One" card he likes to play.

He called me an O-bot. ROFL ROFL ROFL

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 08:35 PM
So what are you attacking Obama and not McCain as if this is the deciding factor for you?

Why can't you see this objectively without being pressured into admissions?

Why do you start out from the position that Obama's guilty (whether or not that's true) and then when pressed about McCain, then it becomes a "all politicians" thing.

Seems pretty hap-hazzard, as if you have an agenda to take down Obama and you are willing to attach yourself to any half-truth to justify it.

Simple, McCain isn't lying about his past as Obama is. McCain does not have a track record as long as Obama does when it comes down to people with a shady past or serious questions about character and judgment. Sure McCain has his skeletons in in his closet. Obama with the help of the liberal media painted a picture of a guy ( Obama ) that was everything that the world and the USA needs. They painted him as damn near perfect. This was strike one on on my list with Obama. Then his economic plan was # 2 , then his constant deflecting, lying and dodging the question that none of you OBOTS care to know about is mind boggling to me .

FTR, you are doing a nice job of spinning the facts....... guess your facts and mine don't match. Obama may deflect and fool a bunch of his followers, he's not fooling the whole country.

BACK TO THE QUESTIONS .........

Why does Obama lie about his association with ACORN ?
Why did he have to change his website after reports showed his involvement with ACORN ?
Why did Obama lie about the money that was donated to an ACORN affiliate ?

Why does Obama hide information that people keep asking him about or just deflecting the questions , with more questions ?

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 08:38 PM
I recall I recently pointed out Roy is quick to embrace any attack on Obama, no matter how far-fetched.

I also pointed out that made him nothing more than the flip side of the "You O-Bots won't believe anything bad about The One" card he likes to play.

He called me an O-bot. ROFL ROFL ROFL

I have that ability to call anybody who defends Obama an Obot . :eek:

Seriously, I don't keep up with everybody's candidate that well, there are a lot of members on this BB. So if it offended you, sorry, if it didn't, oh well.

FTR, who you supporting any way, I don't know.

Jenson71
10-19-2008, 08:47 PM
Why does Obama lie about being a half-breed Muslin?

Adept Havelock
10-19-2008, 08:59 PM
I have that ability to call anybody who defends Obama an Obot . :eek:

Except I wasn't defending Obama. I was pointing out that your eagerness to embrace the most crackpot claims about Senator Obama makes you the flip side of the same card you play against Senator Obama supporters when you claim "they won't believe anything bad".

I know that's tough for you to recognize as something other than defending Sen. Obama, as I suspect English isn't your first language.


FTR, who you supporting any way, I don't know.

I won't vote for Senator McCain. I liked the man up until he started kissing the ass of the Religious Right Radicals. His selection of Palin removed any chance of me voting for him. I won't be voting for Senator Obama either, as I can't vote for one party to control the Executive and Legislature. I saw how much of a clusterf*** that was in 92-94, and even more so in 00-06.

This will be the first election I only vote downticket candidates.

ROYC75
10-19-2008, 09:19 PM
Except I wasn't defending Obama. I was pointing out that your eagerness to embrace the most crackpot claims about Senator Obama makes you the flip side of the same card you play against Senator Obama supporters when you claim "they won't believe anything bad".

I know that's tough for you to recognize as something other than defending Sen. Obama, as I suspect English isn't your first language.

I do know that I am getting blasted by the left about not attacking the right. I don't approve of the right with everything. Probably because I feel I have to vote for the right since the left is so radical and liberal ?

I don't follow your English as 1st language ? Fill me in with your question, sorry. As for my English in typing, I wasn't a scholar . :D




I won't be voting for Senator Obama either, as I can't vote for one party to control the Executive and Legislature. I saw how much of a clusterf*** that was in 92-94, and even more so in 00-06.

This will be the first election I only vote downticket candidates.

I can relate to this, I have never voted for any other POTUS other than one of the 2 major parties. I would go 3rd party if I felt someone was close enough to my views and had a chance of winning. IMHO, Any vote for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama getting elected .Not telling you how to vote here, I wouldn't do that,it's not my call, but it's how I feel.

Face it, we are screwed this election as well .

RJ
10-19-2008, 09:22 PM
Republican party - yes, a direct attempt.

McCain campaign - no, not directly.

wazu
10-19-2008, 09:25 PM
No. Any attempt would be futile in the information age.

RJ
10-19-2008, 09:38 PM
No. Any attempt would be futile in the information age.


I think the "information age" makes it easier to lie to people, not harder.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 09:42 PM
Roy, at what point are you going to start applying the actual, standard, American english defintion of the word "lie" in this discussion?

Until you retun reality on that front, it's clearly a pointless waste of time for me to continue sincere discussion of this issue with you. I am sincere in this, and sincerely wasting my time in the process.

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 09:49 PM
Roy, at what point are you going to start applying the actual, standard, American english defintion of the word "lie" in this discussion?

Until you retun reality on that front, it's clearly a pointless waste of time for me to continue sincere discussion of this issue with you. I am sincere in this, and sincerely wasting my time in the process.


Did you feel the same way about Bill Clinton's definition for lying/perjury.

Just curious. :)

wazu
10-19-2008, 09:56 PM
I think the "information age" makes it easier to lie to people, not harder.

Nah. Lies seem to be followed by such an overwhelming correction of the lies that the original lie itself actually tends to have the opposite effect.

For instance - "Barack Obama is a muslim". Apparently somebody, somewhere, at some point, tried to spread this rumor. I never heard the actual rumor. Instead I've seen countless articles, posts, and MSM sources denouncing it as ridiculous. Who are they trying to convince? I have no idea as everybody in America already knows it to be false, but I'm sure they will continue.

The net effect? I'll bet you that in some ignorant circles some people would just hear his name and assume he is a muslim. But it is almost inconceivable that they will manage to carry this notion all the way to the polls considering how many sources are active in denouncing it.

HolmeZz
10-19-2008, 10:10 PM
Who are they trying to convince? I have no idea as everybody in America already knows it to be false, but I'm sure they will continue it.

Really?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14728.html

jAZ
10-19-2008, 10:35 PM
Did you feel the same way about Bill Clinton's definition for lying/perjury.

Just curious. :)
Clinton lied (but did so without being guilty of legal perjury).

Obama at worst is deflecting and at best is answering fully and truthfully.

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 10:38 PM
Clinton lied (but did so without being guilty of legal perjury).

Obama at worst is deflecting and at best is answering fully and truthfully.

Lying under oath IS, by definition, perjury.

"Thanks for playing, kid; we have some nice parting gifts for Justin though, don't we Don???"

jAZ
10-19-2008, 10:42 PM
Lying under oath IS, by definition, perjury.

"Thanks for playing, kid; we have some nice parting gifts for Justin though, don't we Don???"
There are two standards and two statements at two seperate times at play here.

Strict legal vs common wisdom.
Under oath denials vs out of oath denials.

He lied in public under the common definition of lie.

He used "wiggle words" under oath and didn't commit perjury in the process.

Again, Obama appears to be completely truthful in reality and by comparison.

T-post Tom
10-19-2008, 11:00 PM
no, not the "GOP"

Ultra Peanut
10-20-2008, 03:23 AM
That guy has been Powellin' around with some shaaaady characters.

VAChief
10-20-2008, 06:19 AM
Of course there is innuendo intended...and it works for a certain population.

Mr. Kotter
10-20-2008, 08:00 AM
...He used "wiggle words" under oath and didn't commit perjury in the process....


Heh...."wiggle words".....


ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL





What's really sad about this though, is so many moonbats actually believe this garbage.

:shake:

ROYC75
10-20-2008, 08:37 AM
Clinton lied (but did so without being guilty of legal perjury).

Obama at worst is deflecting and at best is answering fully and truthfully.

You are full of shit, denial is your best answer here.

Answer fully and truthfully ? ROFLROFLROFL

ROYC75
10-20-2008, 08:57 AM
Hey jAZ,

You still have not answered my last set of questions. Post 65.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 09:01 AM
No, of course not. The Obama bin Biden ticket is not an Arabic terrorist group but it will work to the advantage of groups that are.

RaiderH8r
10-20-2008, 10:01 AM
The article posted about the Ayers event only serves to further substantiate the claim that Obama's political career was launched that evening. Nobody shows up for a political "coming out" party with the no name of a never ran as the headliner, the "newbie" piggie backs it with those in the area with street cred so that he can then be introduced by them and the donors at the party know that the new guy has the party's blessing. Jesus Christ on a crooked crutch are you people f'ing new?

Obama runs with a domestic terrorist. Period. Run with it, embrace it. While Johhny Mac may have some anger issues he's never run with a domestic terrorist. The difference between Ayers and McVeigh is tenure.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 10:02 AM
Hey jAZ,

You still have not answered my last set of questions. Post 65.

My response in post #73...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5133802&postcount=73

...was in reply to your post #65. Sorry for not quoting #65 for clarity.

You have approached this discussion in a fundamentally dishonest way.

You belive that both McCain and Obama (and all politicians) will spin, deflect and reframe answers to their benefit, but when Obama does it, you call it a "lie" and claim others don't do that.

I've discussed this in sincere reponses and walked you though this point in clear detail. You've ignored the new information and tried to start over. Whenever someone in a discussion ignores a point and refuses to process the new information into the flow of the conversation, then it ceases to be a conversation.

That's why I asked you to begin to ackowledge the definiation of the word "lie" in even a tangential way. I gave you lie, lie by omission and deflection without lying as variations you can apply, you've ignored all of those options, so I am waiting patiently for you to revist that decision.

Let me know if you reconsider.

ROYC75
10-20-2008, 12:09 PM
My response in post #73...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5133802&postcount=73

...was in reply to your post #65. Sorry for not quoting #65 for clarity.

You have approached this discussion in a fundamentally dishonest way.

You belive that both McCain and Obama (and all politicians) will spin, deflect and reframe answers to their benefit, but when Obama does it, you call it a "lie" and claim others don't do that.

I've discussed this in sincere reponses and walked you though this point in clear detail. You've ignored the new information and tried to start over. Whenever someone in a discussion ignores a point and refuses to process the new information into the flow of the conversation, then it ceases to be a conversation.

That's why I asked you to begin to ackowledge the definiation of the word "lie" in even a tangential way. I gave you lie, lie by omission and deflection without lying as variations you can apply, you've ignored all of those options, so I am waiting patiently for you to revist that decision.

Let me know if you reconsider.

Heh, nice deflect. Obama has you programmed well too.

Lie and deflect, that's the " CHANGE " for America.