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View Full Version : Elections What would happen if a "reformed" domestic terrorist ran a 527 to help elect Obama?


jAZ
10-19-2008, 11:16 PM
What if he was a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others?

What if this guy made a biased documentary and then formed a 527 organization to "independently" raise millions of dollars to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election?

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

Ultra Peanut
10-19-2008, 11:20 PM
WATERBOARD HIM

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 11:25 PM
Oliver Stone??? :eek:

jAZ
10-19-2008, 11:28 PM
Oliver Stone??? :eek:
Heh... no, but fair guess sans the whole domestic terrorist and 527 and buying insertions into newspapers in swing states part(s)...

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 11:40 PM
Heh... no, but fair guess sans the whole domestic terrorist and 527 and buying insertions into newspapers in swing states part(s)...


Oh, right...it's Michael Moore who's handing out the free DVDs of his shitty movie. Gotcha.

ClevelandBronco
10-19-2008, 11:43 PM
I'd still vote against Sen. Obama and for Sen. McCain.

What was the question again?

jAZ
10-19-2008, 11:43 PM
Oh, right...it's Michael Moore who's handing out the free DVDs of his shitty movie. Gotcha.
Ahhh!

Still no domestic terrorist, or 527. You are getting warmer though.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 11:44 PM
I'd still vote against Sen. Obama and for Sen. McCain.

What was the question again?

Heh... fair enough.

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

Taco John
10-19-2008, 11:46 PM
I'd still vote against Sen. Obama and for Sen. McCain.

What was the question again?


Reminds me of why nobody cares about Ayers in America.

Logical
10-19-2008, 11:47 PM
I admit I tried to play along but my searches went unrewarded. Fess up jAZ who are you talking about?

HolmeZz
10-19-2008, 11:49 PM
Oh, right...it's Michael Moore who's handing out the free DVDs of his shitty movie. Gotcha.

Why do you keep guessing liberals? If this thread is in the same vein as a lot of jAZ's threads, the example for the thread title is going to be applicable to McCain.

Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible.

jAZ
10-19-2008, 11:52 PM
I'm not fessing up to anything yet.

Should make for a fun over-night search.

Mr. Kotter
10-19-2008, 11:54 PM
Why do you keep guessing liberals? If this thread is in the same vein as a lot of jAZ's threads, the example for the thread title is going to be applicable to McCain.

Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible.

I'm guessing liberals to fugg with jAZ, to demonstrate the silliness of his lame attempt....which, apparently, no one knows about because....well, it probably some conservative-facist-Bush administration-McCain campaign nefarious campaign to bamboozle the voters.

Fear the power of the Bush, HolmeZz....despite his dismal approval ratings, and despite Obama's inevitable victory, and despite the Republican's complete ineptitude over the past 4 years (especially)....the power of the Bush is strong in McCain....despite his 10 point shortfall in the polling. The power of Bush is SOOOOO strong.

Fear it; heed jAZ's warning!!!! :eek:

Logical
10-19-2008, 11:56 PM
Truthfully not worth more than the fifteen minutes I spent on it already. I will find out tomorrow.

ClevelandBronco
10-20-2008, 12:02 AM
When you get back to us, let us know what the unreformed domestic terrorist thinks.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:03 AM
I'm guessing liberals to fugg with jAZ, to demonstrate the silliness of his lame attempt....which, apparently, no one knows about because....well, it probably some conservative-facist-Bush administration-McCain campaign nefarious campaign to bamboozle the voters.

Fear the power of the Bush, HolmeZz....despite his dismal approval ratings, and despite Obama's inevitable victory, and despite the Republican's complete ineptitude over the past 4 years (especially)....the power of the Bush is strong in McCain....despite his 10 point shortfall in the polling. The power of Bush is SOOOOO strong.

Fear it; heed jAZ's warning!!!! :eek:

You keep missing the mark by a lot, though, given that none of the people are you talking about are in anyway linked to a domestic terror organization that killed 9 cops and injured 50+ of them. They were as violent or more violent than Ayers and Weather Underground.

And this is real.

ClevelandBronco
10-20-2008, 12:08 AM
You keep missing the mark by a lot, though, given that none of the people are you talking about are in anyway linked to a domestic terror organization that killed 9 cops and injured 50+ of them. They were as violent or more violent than Ayers and Weather Underground.

And this is real.

It's real? I mean, really real?

That's really, really messed up.

I really wish I didn't have to wait until tomorrow.

It sounds really, really, really important.

Logical
10-20-2008, 12:12 AM
OK is this not a US incident?

Suicide Bombing in Israel, August 4, 2002: A suicide bomb attack on a bus in Safed, Israel, killed 9 persons and wounded 50. Two of the dead were Philippine citizens; many of the wounded were soldiers returning from leave. HAMAS claimed responsibility.

Mr. Kotter
10-20-2008, 12:13 AM
You keep missing the mark by a lot, though, given that none of the people are you talking about are in anyway linked to a domestic terror organization that killed 9 cops and injured 50+ of them. They were as violent or more violent than Ayers and Weather Underground.

And this is real.

Liddy, I suppose (that was my guess when you started....but it's a stupid comparison IMHO.)

Only Moonbats will buy this silliness if that is where you are headed.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:14 AM
OK is this not a US incident?

Suicide Bombing in Israel, August 4, 2002: A suicide bomb attack on a bus in Safed, Israel, killed 9 persons and wounded 50. Two of the dead were Philippine citizens; many of the wounded were soldiers returning from leave. HAMAS claimed responsibility.

It's US.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:14 AM
Liddy, I suppose (that was my guess when you started....but it's a stupid comparison IMHO.)

Only Moonbats will buy this silliness if that is where you are headed.

Not Liddy.

Frankie
10-20-2008, 09:42 AM
What if he was a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others?

What if this guy made a biased documentary and then formed a 527 organization to "independently" raise millions of dollars to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election?

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

There is one. G. Gordon Liddy.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 10:55 AM
What do you meant by "reformed"?

What do you mean by "domestic terrorist"?

Can you give us a better description because I'm not sure we see these two concepts the same way.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:27 AM
There is one. G. Gordon Liddy.

Nope, it's not G. Gordon Liddy. This group is more well known. And the person is actually pretty well known. I think everyone will be really surprised at the name and the association.

And prior to this election this group was far more well known than Weather Underground, and in some ways considered as dangerous or more so.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:29 AM
What do you meant by "reformed"?

What do you mean by "domestic terrorist"?

Can you give us a better description because I'm not sure we see these two concepts the same way.

We might not see this in the same way, but when you figure this out, you'll certainly belive this person is "reformed", no doubt about that. And this group was militant, existed in the same era as the Weather Underground, but was responsible for more dead and wounded cops, by far IIRC.

|Zach|
10-20-2008, 11:30 AM
Ok....

Do this.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 11:39 AM
We might not see this in the same way, but when you figure this out, you'll certainly belive this person is "reformed", no doubt about that. And this group was militant, existed in the same era as the Weather Underground, but was responsible for more dead and wounded cops, by far IIRC.

If I really believed that this former terrorist was reformed (or if I didn't consider their past actions to be terrorism in the first place), then I wouldn't have a problem with his/her support for Obama, particularly if it were truly independent support.

triple
10-20-2008, 11:39 AM
reformed and unrepentant are different. it's different from a guy who wishes to this day they would have killed more people. it's different than this guy being the ghostwriter of one of your books.

as charles krauthammer said, a long association with Ayers is a problem because anyone who knows what he's about wouldn't even shake hands with him, let alone work with him

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:40 AM
If I really believed that this former terrorist was reformed (or if I didn't consider their past actions to be terrorism in the first place), then I wouldn't have a problem with his/her support for Obama, particularly if it were truly independent support.
Do you consier G. Gordon Liddy to be reformed?

triple
10-20-2008, 11:43 AM
Do you consier G. Gordon Liddy to be reformed?

Who did Liddy kill?

patteeu
10-20-2008, 11:45 AM
Do you consier G. Gordon Liddy to be reformed?

Reformed from what? What terrorist organization did he belong to?

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:47 AM
reformed and unrepentant are different
True. I've not heard either Ayers or this person repent, but they are both reformed.

it's different from a guy who wishes to this day they would have killed more people
He didn't kill any people and that's not what he's even accused of having said in 2001.

Garcia Bronco
10-20-2008, 11:49 AM
Bombs are okay as long as you only cause property damage.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:49 AM
Reformed from what? What terrorist organization did he belong to?
As I've said (and assumed was clear) I'm not talking about Liddy in this thread.

I'm asking you for the sake of comparison and clarity. Do you think Liddy is reformed from his criminal ways and terrorist motivations and threats?

jAZ
10-20-2008, 11:50 AM
Who did Liddy kill?

Who did Ayers kill?

Calcountry
10-20-2008, 11:52 AM
Ahhh!

Still no domestic terrorist, or 527. You are getting warmer though.So, he is fat and white?

patteeu
10-20-2008, 11:52 AM
As I've said (and assumed was clear) I'm not talking about Liddy in this thread.

I'm asking you for the sake of comparison and clarity. Do you think Liddy is reformed from his criminal ways and terrorist motivations and threats?

I don't consider Liddy a terrorist, reformed or otherwise.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:03 PM
I don't consider Liddy a terrorist, reformed or otherwise.
I didn't ask you to, nor are you required to in order to answer question.

You can answer it based on the facts of his situation, without regard to any lable you choose or refuse to apply.

He was a convicted criminal who admittedly planned but presumably never ultimately acted out several violent criminal actions including bombings, kidnappings and and murders.

Setting aside any labels, do you think Liddy is reformed today given his past crimes and plans for crimes?

patteeu
10-20-2008, 12:05 PM
I didn't ask you to, nor are you required to in order to answer question.

You can answer it based on the facts of his situation, without regard to any lable you choose or refuse to apply.

He was a convicted criminal who admittedly planned but presumably never ultimately acted out several violent criminal actions including bombings, kidnappings and and murders.

Setting aside any labels, do you think Liddy is reformed today given his past crimes and plans for crimes?

It's important to know what the underlying offense is in order to make a judgment about whether or not he's reformed. I know some things about Liddy, but I'm not certain whether I know everything there is to know about him. Based on the crimes I'm aware of, I think he's paid his debt to society, but I don't think he's reformed. Although I'd guess that age has mellowed him a bit.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:06 PM
So, he is fat and white?

Not obese, not skinny. White.

triple
10-20-2008, 12:09 PM
Who did Ayers kill?

this is why i won't even bother with discussing anything with you, drawing an equals sign between an unrepentant terrorist whose actions resulted in and/or contributed to deaths and Liddy, who was basically just a hired goon performing a political dirty trick.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:11 PM
I think he's paid his debt to society, but I don't think he's reformed.
I'd say this person is as reformed as Liddy, but wasn't ever convicted of any crime. Like Ayers, the death of a personal friend broke him out of the his association with the terrorist group in question.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:13 PM
this is why i won't even bother with discussing anything with you, drawing an equals sign between an unrepentant terrorist whose actions resulted in and/or contributed to deaths and Liddy, who was basically just a hired goon performing a political dirty trick.
Are you unable to admit you were wrong to accuse Ayers of killing someone?

dirk digler
10-20-2008, 12:16 PM
I'd say this person is as reformed as Liddy, but wasn't ever convicted of any crime. Like Ayers, the death of a personal friend broke him out of the his association with the terrorist group in question.

So who is this person?

For the record I think what Ayers did was despicable but Liddy is no saint either.

He stated several years ago that people should shoot Federal Agents in the head and go for the kill shot if they come into your house.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:18 PM
...I think he's paid his debt to society, but I don't think he's reformed.
Would you say the same is true of Ayers? He turned himself in in 1980 to face prosecution.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 12:21 PM
So who is this person?

For the record I think what Ayers did was despicable but Liddy is no saint either.

He stated several years ago that people should shoot Federal Agents in the head and go for the kill shot if they come into your house.
I was actually surprised to learn all of this (was just doing my own reading about an unrealted subject and stumbled across this).

I'm guessing some here will already know all about this, but I was completely unware.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 12:59 PM
I'd say this person is as reformed as Liddy, but wasn't ever convicted of any crime. Like Ayers, the death of a personal friend broke him out of the his association with the terrorist group in question.

David Horowitz? If so, he's completely reformed and I'm not sure he was ever a member of a terrorist organization although he was buddies with the Black Panthers.

Calcountry
10-20-2008, 01:00 PM
Not obese, not skinny. White.You forgot to say NTTIAWWT.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:01 PM
Would you say the same is true of Ayers? He turned himself in in 1980 to face prosecution.

Yes.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:21 PM
David Horowitz? If so, he's completely reformed and I'm not sure he was ever a member of a terrorist organization although he was buddies with the Black Panthers.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

David Horowitz was deeply connected to the Black Panthers. He was close personal advisor to Huey Netwon and the Black Panters, he was basically the organizations top legal advisor and top fundraiser and top accountant. He was in the top tier of the organization during their most violent period.

Here's his fear-the-terrorists 527 story...

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003849746

UPDATE: Newspapers Deliver Millions of 'Terror' DVDs to Subscribers -- In 'Swing States'

By Greg Mitchell and Joe Strupp

Published: September 13, 2008 2:00 PM ET

NEW YORK The arrival of tens of millions of DVDs of a controversial film on doorsteps around the nation -- but almost exclusively in election "swing states" -- via newspaper home delivery continues this weekend, with explanatory articles and subscriber feedback appearing on some of the papers' Web sites.

The DVDs of the 60-minute film, made in 2005, and titled "Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West," arrived Saturday with, among other papers, the Charlotte Observer and the News & Observer in Raleigh, with delivery with the Miami Herald and other papers set for Sunday. (To watch a clip see link below.)

Other Florida papers to distribute it on Sunday included the major dailies in St. Petersburg, Tampa, Fort Myers and Orlando. But it also showed up in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, among others.

Despite some protests from Muslim and liberal activists, the newspapers -- all hard hit by drops in ad revenue in recent months -- have explained that the DVD does not violate their usual standards; see our exchange with The New York Times below. A spokesperson there said the Times last Sunday inserted 145,000 DVDs in its papers delivered in the following markets: Denver, Miami/Palm Beach, Tampa, Orlando, Detroit, Kansas City, St Louis, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee/Madison. Note: These are all in swing states.

The documentary showcases scenes of Muslim children being encouraged to become suicide bombers, interspersed with shots of Nazi rallies. 'The threat of Radical Islam is the most important issue facing us today,'' reads the sleeve of the DVD. ''But it's a topic that neither the presidential candidates nor the media are discussing openly. It's our responsibility to ensure we can all make an informed vote in November.''

It was shown on Fox News just before the 2006 mid-term elections, and conservative activist David Horowitz screened the film on college campuses during 2007. An article at the group's site, www.radicalislam.org, all but endorsed John McCain this past week, then was pulled down. The DVD carries on-screen text near the outset that it is not indicting most Muslims.

An article at the site of the Morning-Call in Allentown, Pa. today reveals that it will be inserted in the Sunday paper there tomorrow. It continues: "A call to Clarion wasn't returned, but the nonprofit's spokesman, Gregory Ross, told the Harrisburg Patriot-News this week that 28 million copies of the DVD are being distributed nationwide throughout September. He said the intent is not to sway voters' opinions about the presidential candidates."

It has already been packaged with dozens of large papers, such as the Denver Post and Columbus Dispatch. Another article explaining the delivery runs online at the News & Observer.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:22 PM
Yes.

Well, that seperates you from the rest of the Repubilcans around here, it seems. Kudos to your for intellectual honesty.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:24 PM
There is a world of difference between a guy who has basically done a 180 with his political life like Horowitz and a guy like Ayers who remains unrepentant about his former tactics even if he's adopted new tactics to pursue the same revolutionary change today.

Horowitz' autobiography, Radical Son, is excellent.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:27 PM
Well, that seperates you from the rest of the Repubilcans around here, it seems. Kudos to your for intellectual honesty.

Are you sure you asked the question you think you asked?

I don't think Ayers owes society anything as a legal matter because he beat the rap. In that sense, he's served his debt to society (because he doesn't really have one).

More importantly, I see him as unrepentant like Liddy. Unlike Liddy, however, I find his ideology and his ongoing activism quite objectionable.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:29 PM
There is a world of difference between a guy who has basically done a 180 with his political life like Horowitz and a guy like Ayers who remains unrepentant about his former tactics even if he's adopted new tactics to pursue the same revolutionary change today.

Horowitz' autobiography, Radical Son, is excellent.
Both gave up supporting violence and one switched to politics you agree with. Oh, and one is actively spending millions to elect the Repubilcan in this race, while the other has nothing to do with the race.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:32 PM
Are you sure you asked the question you think you asked?

I don't think Ayers owes society anything as a legal matter because he beat the rap. In that sense, he's served his debt to society (because he doesn't really have one).

More importantly, I see him as unrepentant like Liddy. Unlike Liddy, however, I find his ideology and his ongoing activism quite objectionable.
Yep, you see Liddy and Ayers as equals as being unrepentant radicals who paid whatever debt they owed to society, legally. You also agree with the politics of one and not the other, so in that sense you see them differently.

That's far more honesty about this topic than I've seen anywhere from any Repubilcan at any point.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:41 PM
Yep, you see Liddy and Ayers as equals as being unrepentant radicals who paid whatever debt they owed to society, legally. You also agree with the politics of one and not the other, so in that sense you see them differently.

That's far more honesty about this topic than I've seen anywhere from any Repubilcan at any point.

OK good.

You do agree, don't you, that the underlying politics are important? Afterall, there'd be a difference between an unrepentant pedophile who'd paid his debt to society for the child rapes he'd participated in and an unrepentant parent who'd paid his debt to society for the vigilante killing of the pedophile who had raped his young, innocent child, right?

Mr. Kotter
10-20-2008, 01:46 PM
OK good.

You do agree, don't you, that the underlying politics are important? Afterall, there'd be a difference between an unrepentant pedophile who'd paid his debt to society for the child rapes he'd participated in and an unrepentant parent who'd paid his debt to society for the vigilante killing of the pedophile who had raped his young, innocent child, right?


Is Ayers the pedophile, and Horrowitz the vigilante....of vice-versa? :hmmm:

;)

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:52 PM
OK good.

You do agree, don't you, that the underlying politics are important?
I acknowledge that you see the world through glasses of good and evil, where those who agree with you are good (Horowitz, Liddy & McCain) and those who see disagree are evil (Ayers & Obama).

I point to your attempt to use an analogy of a pedophile (where in your mind, Obama and Ayers are the pedophile and Liddy and McCain are vengful rightous parents) as a clear indicator that your lense is as I describe.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:53 PM
Is Ayers the pedophile, and Horrowitz the vigilante....of vice-versa? :hmmm:

;)

The analogy is related to the Ayers versus Liddy comparison. From my pov, Ayers is the pedophile and Liddy is the vigilante.

The proper analogy for the Ayers versus Horowitz comparison is that both were slave holders. Horowitz repented, freed his slaves, and works tirelessly to make amends while Ayers is still ruthlessly employing the lash. ;)

patteeu
10-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I acknowledge that you see the world through glasses of good and evil, where those who agree with you are good (Liddy & McCain) and those who see disagree are evil (Ayers & Obama).

I point to your attempt to use an analogy of a pedophile (where in your mind, Obama and Ayers are the pedophile and Liddy and McCain are vengful rightous parents) as a clear indicator that your lense is as I describe.

Almost right. McCain is a gray figure to me. Let's call him a dirty old man with a taste for barely legal women rather than a pedophile. ;)

jAZ
10-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I find it rather revealing that no Republican was willing to answer the questions I posed about a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others made a biased documentary and formed a 527 organization to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election.

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

patteeu
10-20-2008, 02:02 PM
I find it rather revealing that no Republican was willing to answer the questions I posed about a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others made a biased documentary and formed a 527 organization to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election.

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

First of all, Horowitz was never a member of the Black Panthers (btw, for those who don't know him, he's a white jew). He was an associate, to be sure, but I've seen nothing to make me believe he was involved to any extent whatsoever in that groups' violence.

My answer to your questions is that I'd expect it to be as much of a non-issue as it actually is.

jAZ
10-20-2008, 02:06 PM
First of all, Horowitz was never a member of the Black Panthers (btw, for those who don't know him, he's a white jew). He was an associate, to be sure, but I've seen nothing to make me believe he was involved to any extent whatsoever in that groups' violence.

My answer to your questions is that I'd expect it to be as much of a non-issue as it actually is.
I don't even think he would deny being a member. He was Newton's #2 effectively for the balance of his leadership. And he was actively involved during the years when the organization took it's most radical and violent turn.

Mr. Kotter
10-20-2008, 02:57 PM
I find it rather revealing that no Republican was willing to answer the questions I posed about a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others made a biased documentary and formed a 527 organization to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election.

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

I know I'm a Democrat, but you see me as a Republican....so I'll say this.

I haven't gotten too excited about Ayers; I see no real reason to get excited about Horriwitz either. In both cases, it's guilt by association....that, unless it's a real pattern of behavior, or deep and long-time association....it's much ado about nothing on either side.

ROYC75
10-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Damn, 50 friggin post just for jAZ to feel good about himself, still no answer.

If it was something serious it would already be out by now.

Calcountry
10-20-2008, 03:57 PM
Damn, 50 friggin post just for jAZ to feel good about himself, still no answer.

If it was something serious it would already be out by now.LMAO

mikey23545
10-20-2008, 04:04 PM
One is a unrepentant terrorist who tried to kill those he disagreed with and acts as friend and advisor to a subversive Presidential candidate, while the other runs a 527 to help a candidate they support.

I'm sure there's lots of people out there who will vote for McCain who would turn his stomach. That's not the same as having your political "coming out" party in their living room...

Programmer
10-20-2008, 04:12 PM
What if he was a "reformed" senior member of a militant domestic terrorist organization that killed 9 police officers and injured 50+ others?

What if this guy made a biased documentary and then formed a 527 organization to "independently" raise millions of dollars to help elect John McCain by paying to have millions of copies of the DVD distributed by major media news papers almost exclusively in all of the major swing states in the lead up to this election?

What would you say about it?

What would the media say about it?

What would expect Obama to say about it?

What would you expect to happen to the guy?

What would you expect to happen to Obama?

How would it affect the election?

Don't you have anything better to do than to stir shit?

You need to be renamed Stick.

VAChief
10-20-2008, 04:12 PM
One is a unrepentant terrorist who tried to kill those he disagreed with and acts as friend and advisor to a subversive Presidential candidate, while the other runs a 527 to help a candidate they support.

I'm sure there's lots of people out there who will vote for McCain who would turn his stomach. That's not the same as having your political "coming out" party in their living room...

Unrepentant...oh you mean G. Gordon Liddy?

StcChief
10-20-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm more interested in the un-reported, not returned, Illegal campaign contributions.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 05:07 PM
I don't even think he would deny being a member. He was Newton's #2 effectively for the balance of his leadership. And he was actively involved during the years when the organization took it's most radical and violent turn.

I'm sure he'd deny being a member. He was a confidant as well as an adviser on local political matters and he helped them set up a school. However, he didn't have anything to do with their violence or the inner workings of their gang. He was never Huey Newton's #2 although Newton was indeed the BP with whom he was connected. The two of them were certainly palling around. He had very mixed relationships with other local panthers.

How many white folks do you imagine were in the Black Panther organization?

jAZ
10-20-2008, 05:52 PM
...unrepentant terrorist
Not entirely true.
who tried to kill those he disagreed with
Completely false
acts as friend and advisor to a subversive Presidential candidate
Not even remotely true. Hell even the McCain campaign won't say this.
political "coming out" party in their living room...
Also false, it was held at Ramada Inn. Ayers held a fundraiser for the woman who launched Obamas career, Obama attended it.

patteeu
10-20-2008, 06:12 PM
I know I'm a Democrat, but you see me as a Republican....so I'll say this.

I haven't gotten too excited about Ayers; I see no real reason to get excited about Horriwitz either. In both cases, it's guilt by association....that, unless it's a real pattern of behavior, or deep and long-time association....it's much ado about nothing on either side.

You may not intend this, but your post gives the impression that you see these two "associations" as somehow equivalent. They aren't. Ayers continues to believe in the anti-American radicalism of his youth. Horowitz has rejected his and is now dedicated to opposing it. Ayers was actually a conspirator in the violence of the terrorist group to which he was an actual member. Horowitz wasn't involved in any of the violence of the terrorist group with which he was loosely connected. It's the difference between a non-repentant terrorist and a repentant non-terrorist. :shrug: