Fact Check: Obama taxing small businesses leading to unemployment????

[Carlota69]

Fact check: Would Obama hike taxes on small businesses that employ 16 million?
Posted: 06:12 PM ET

Was Sen. McCain right about Sen. Obama and taxes? Get the facts!
The Statement: Speaking during a campaign stop Monday, Oct. 20 in Belton, Missouri, Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain criticized Democratic opponent Sen. Barack Obama's proposals on taxes. "The Obama tax increase would come at the worst possible time for America, and especially for small businesses like the one Joe dreams of owning," McCain said. "The small businesses Senator Obama would tax provide 16 million jobs in America."

The Facts: McCain's criticism appears primarily aimed at Obama's personal income tax proposals — which he says would give tax cuts or leave taxes the same for individuals who make less than $200,000 or families that earn less than $250,000 — but increase them on people making more. Roughly 85 percent of small businesses are taxed at the owner's personal income tax rate, according to an editorial in the Wall Street Journal. Most of those businesses earn less than $250,000 a year.

The McCain campaign uses figures from a National Federation of Independent Business survey to back up its claim. The survey says 12 percent of business owners who employ between one and nine people earn more than $200,000 a year — as do 27 percent of those who employ 10-19 people and 50 percent of those who employ between 20 and 250 workers. Obama says $200,000 is the lowest income level at which an individual would see a tax increase under his plan.

But in assuming all of those business owners would see an increase, the McCain campaign appears to suppose that all of the business owners making between $200,000 and $250,000 would file their taxes individually, not jointly with a spouse or other family member. And roughly 15 percent of small businesses aren't taxed based on the owner's personal income rate, as the Journal notes. Based on those facts, it's impossible to know exactly how many of those business owners would see a tax hike — but it surely would not be 100 percent.

The McCain campaign uses census figures to estimate how many people work for the businesses it says would be impacted — an effort McCain spokesman Brian Rogers acknowledges is "admittedly a rough estimate." The NFIB says the number of jobs small businesses create is "impossible to calculate," in part because some people only work at small businesses part-time while holding down full time jobs with a bigger employer.

The Verdict: False. McCain uses an overly broad interpretation of the NFIB survey's figures — applying Obama's tax plan to those figures in a way that is highly unlikely to match reality.

[RJ]

I work for a small business. I can assure you the guy who owns the joint would gladly accept a higher tax rate in exchange for making 250K. Unfortunately, he's only making about 25% of that. The fact of the matter is that most small business owners would put themselves out of business by paying themselves that kind of money.

[Carlota69]

I work for a small business. I can assure you the guy who owns the joint would gladly accept a higher tax rate in exchange for making 250K. Unfortunately, he's only making about 25% of that. The fact of the matter is that most small business owners would put themselves out of business by paying themselves that kind of money.

This kind of info needs to get out there, becasue these peeps are just straight up buying Mccains bullshit. I have 2 family memebers who own their own small business, and without even looking into the facts, they are blindly voting for Mccain--even though they are democrats. Ugghh...They truly beleive they are going to lose their business if obama is in. Never mind the fact that their businesses have taken huge hits becasue of our current economy.

[RJ]

I've noticed listening to the local talk radio that some people think that "making $250K" refers to the gross sales of the business rather than the net profits or owner's income. That seems rather obvious but apparently there are some who don't get that very large distinction.

[Carlota69]

I've noticed listening to the local talk radio that some people think that "making $250K" refers to the gross sales of the business rather than the net profits or owner's income. That seems rather obvious but apparently there are some who don't get that very large distinction.


That usually, or at least in the case of my family members, is becasue they dont take the time to look at the facts. They just listen to JM and Sp and buy the load of shit by the barrel

[patteeu]

This kind of info needs to get out there, becasue these peeps are just straight up buying Mccains bullshit. I have 2 family memebers who own their own small business, and without even looking into the facts, they are blindly voting for Mccain--even though they are democrats. Ugghh...They truly beleive they are going to lose their business if obama is in. Never mind the fact that their businesses have taken huge hits becasue of our current economy.

You should probably keep in mind that campaign promises are not really "facts". And the analysis of the OP that selectively limits itself to individual income tax is more spin than fact. If you really believe that no one with an income under $200k will see their taxes go up, I suspect you're in for the same kind of surprise that Clinton voters got when they voted for their guy on the basis of his middle class tax cut promises.

[Carlota69]

You should probably keep in mind that campaign promises are not really "facts". And the analysis of the OP that selectively limits itself to individual income tax is more spin than fact. If you really believe that no one with an income under $200k will see their taxes go up, I suspect you're in for the same kind of surprise that Clinton voters got when they voted for their guy on the basis of his middle class tax cut promises.


Or G.H bush--"read my lips"

[patteeu]

Or G.H bush--"read my lips"

Yes, that's another fine example.

[triple]

If you really believe that no one with an income under $200k will see their taxes go up

You know, this is all just income taxes anyway. I don't care if one tax goes up or another goes down. I care if my total tax burden is going to change.

There's no way you can tell me that Obama is going to spend all this money an start all these new handout programs and my total tax burden is going to go down. This isn't my first rodeo. They can hide tax increases in places where people don't even know there are taxes.

(And another thing - they will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, right? I know mine went down back then. Aren't my taxes going to go up if they fail to renew that? I don't know)

They don't seem to realize that corporations have to make earnings or the Street will punish them. Investors don't sympathize with you when your taxes double. They expect you to make cuts and make earnings.

I wish these "eat the rich" types would think about where jobs come from.

[patteeu]

You know, this is all just income taxes anyway. I don't care if one tax goes up or another goes down. I care if my total tax burden is going to change.

There's no way you can tell me that Obama is going to spend all this money an start all these new handout programs and my total tax burden is going to go down. This isn't my first rodeo. They can hide tax increases in places where people don't even know there are taxes.

(And another thing - they will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, right? I know mine went down back then. Aren't my taxes going to go up if they fail to renew that? I don't know)

They don't seem to realize that corporations have to make earnings or the Street will punish them. Investors don't sympathize with you when your taxes double. They expect you to make cuts and make earnings.

I wish these "eat the rich" types would think about where jobs come from.

Good points.

[whoman69]

You know, this is all just income taxes anyway. I don't care if one tax goes up or another goes down. I care if my total tax burden is going to change.

There's no way you can tell me that Obama is going to spend all this money an start all these new handout programs and my total tax burden is going to go down. This isn't my first rodeo. They can hide tax increases in places where people don't even know there are taxes.

(And another thing - they will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, right? I know mine went down back then. Aren't my taxes going to go up if they fail to renew that? I don't know)

They don't seem to realize that corporations have to make earnings or the Street will punish them. Investors don't sympathize with you when your taxes double. They expect you to make cuts and make earnings.

I wish these "eat the rich" types would think about where jobs come from.

McCain will be spending handily too and still be in Iraq for the tune of $10 billion a month. He can't afford it and give out more corporate welfare tax breaks to those who really don't need it.

[triple]

McCain will be spending handily too and still be in Iraq for the tune of $10 billion a month. He can't afford it and give out more corporate welfare tax breaks to those who really don't need it.

Iraq will eventually end. Government programs never end, they only grow.

And at least I know with McCain my employer's corporate taxes aren't going to skyrocket and make me considerably more expensive to employ than I used to be.

The economy is in bad shape, companies are already looking to make cutbacks. If corporations start getting taxed like a rich man in Europe it's going to make them even worse.

Most people's main concern is staying employed.

[triple]

I've noticed listening to the local talk radio that some people think that "making $250K" refers to the gross sales of the business rather than the net profits or owner's income. That seems rather obvious but apparently there are some who don't get that very large distinction.

This is a good point.

The whole platform is designed to sound good but doesn't sound like it washes under scrutiny.

Maybe I have gross receipts of $300,000, but only profited $50,000. Am I going to be taxed like it's going out of style on that profit simply because of the number of transactions I complete, and not whether I actually have an extremely lucrative business or not?

[Alphaman]

You know, this is all just income taxes anyway. I don't care if one tax goes up or another goes down. I care if my total tax burden is going to change.

There's no way you can tell me that Obama is going to spend all this money an start all these new handout programs and my total tax burden is going to go down. This isn't my first rodeo. They can hide tax increases in places where people don't even know there are taxes.

(And another thing - they will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, right? I know mine went down back then. Aren't my taxes going to go up if they fail to renew that? I don't know)

They don't seem to realize that corporations have to make earnings or the Street will punish them. Investors don't sympathize with you when your taxes double. They expect you to make cuts and make earnings.

I wish these "eat the rich" types would think about where jobs come from.

Actually the street looks EBITDA (earnings BEFORE interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) or EBIT (earnings BEFORE interest and taxes).

[Alphaman]

This is a good point.

The whole platform is designed to sound good but doesn't sound like it washes under scrutiny.

Maybe I have gross receipts of $300,000, but only profited $50,000. Am I going to be taxed like it's going out of style on that profit simply because of the number of transactions I complete, and not whether I actually have an extremely lucrative business or not?

Your net income in that scenario is $50K, thus under Obama you'll see a tax decrease.

[Iowanian]

If you truely think that the $250k salary range is the only tax to be affected by Obama, your ass is aching.

That will be the start, but he's going to have A LOT of promises to fund.

A Company that is an LLC for example could generate $250K+ and will be taxed on all income. This won't account for the fact that they put the majority of that into their business in marketing, legal, travel, employee expenses,insurance, supplies, delivery, product development etc....

Its pretty easy to turn decent money in a small business, and put all of it back into the business, and not actually make that much.

[Chief Henry]

You know, this is all just income taxes anyway. I don't care if one tax goes up or another goes down. I care if my total tax burden is going to change.

There's no way you can tell me that Obama is going to spend all this money an start all these new handout programs and my total tax burden is going to go down. This isn't my first rodeo. They can hide tax increases in places where people don't even know there are taxes.

(And another thing - they will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, right? I know mine went down back then. Aren't my taxes going to go up if they fail to renew that? I don't know)

They don't seem to realize that corporations have to make earnings or the Street will punish them. Investors don't sympathize with you when your taxes double. They expect you to make cuts and make earnings.

I wish these "eat the rich" types would think about where jobs come from.



You will see your tax burden go up no mater what the messiah and his worshippers say, post or think.