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***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 01:37 PM
Barack Obama: Red Diaper Baby
American Thinker, by Andrew Walden

Original Article

Posted By:Photoonist, 10/30/2008 1:10:54 AM

By now most of the American public has heard about unrepentant Weatherman terror bomber Bill Ayers, who discovered the pen is mightier than the sword and so worked with Barack Obama to steer $150 million to their radical cronies via the Annenberg Challenge. (Snip) Barack Obama is a ''red diaper baby'' who has spent his formative years -- literally from the moment of his birth -- interacting with members and sympathizers of the Communist Party, USA.

Comments:
What many of us have been saying for months at least. His mother, his grandparents, his surrogate father, his schools, Bill Ayers....... Every molding influence and choice on his life was Marxist socialist. If the press whores had done their real job would 0bama have even gotten into the US Senate let alone become the Democrat nominee for president? Not in America today, even with the large leftoid population we unfortunately have today.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/barack_obama_red_diaper_baby_1.html

Ultra Peanut
10-30-2008, 01:38 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Swanman
10-30-2008, 01:43 PM
Shit, meet wall.

Sully
10-30-2008, 01:44 PM
"literally from the moment of birth"


ROFL

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 01:45 PM
It's truly pathetic watching libs defend this greasy lowlife from Chicago. It's embarrassing just watching you.

Mecca
10-30-2008, 01:46 PM
It's truly pathetic watching libs defend this greasy lowlife from Chicago. It's embarrassing just watching you.

As embarrassing as these ridiculous grasping as straws threads you start all the time?

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 01:48 PM
As embarrassing as these ridiculous grasping as straws threads you start all the time?

How come we never hear about all of his non-commie friends? I can't figure it out, either.

Sully
10-30-2008, 01:51 PM
It's truly pathetic watching libs defend this greasy lowlife from Chicago. It's embarrassing just watching you.

ROFL

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 01:55 PM
Silly, why is it funny that B.O.'s life is filled with Marxists?

StcChief
10-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Red Diaper boy ... will likely meet bullet.

Sully
10-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Silly, why is it funny that B.O.'s life is filled with Marxists?

I think you may be confused what I'm laughing at.

Mecca
10-30-2008, 02:14 PM
Red Diaper boy ... will likely meet bullet.

And there we go again...where's Patt to defend this one.

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 02:14 PM
I think you may be confused what I'm laughing at.

Well, I don't think Marxism is anything to joke about.

Sully
10-30-2008, 02:14 PM
Well, I don't think Marxism is anything to joke about.

I'm sure you don't.

Dave Lane
10-30-2008, 02:15 PM
How come we never hear about all of his non-commie friends? I can't figure it out, either.

Probably doesn't have any... :)

whoman69
10-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Well, I don't think Marxism is anything to joke about.

No, but you are.

FAX
10-30-2008, 02:18 PM
I just hope, after America goes communist, that the internment camps are comfortable and the food is decent.

FAX

ChiefaRoo
10-30-2008, 02:19 PM
I don't know if Barack is a full on Socialist or just a selfish, ego centric guy who is power hungry like most pols but especially Dems. I do know this. He's going to weaken the military, raise taxes on the middle class (I know he said he won't but he will) because that's where the money is in this country and he's going to try to nationalize healthcare and fine you (tax you) if you choose to stay with your current doctor.

He may turn out to be good for the US abroad as he'll calm our allies and restore some battered frienships but conversely our enemies are going to come right at him. Just ask Joe Biden. It's the only thing I think Biden is correct on.

Mecca
10-30-2008, 02:22 PM
Once again, anyone that says communist or Marxist should be forced to read and recite the communist manifesto.

ChiefaRoo
10-30-2008, 02:24 PM
Once again, anyone that says communist or Marxist should be forced to read and recite the communist manifesto.


Get a haircut.

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 02:28 PM
I just hope, after America goes communist, that the internment camps are comfortable and the food is decent.

FAX

There's a first time for everything so you never know.

BigChiefFan
10-30-2008, 02:31 PM
Wow, shitstain is level 10 on the cuckoo meter. Level 10 hatred activate, form of one tin foil wearing,hate monger,known as shittys prayer.

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 02:32 PM
Wow, shitstain is level 10 on the cuckoo meter. Level 10 hatred activate, form of one tin foil wearing,hate monger,known as shittys prayer.


:ZZZ:

Rooster
10-30-2008, 02:35 PM
Get a haircut.

ROFL

StcChief
10-30-2008, 02:54 PM
And there we go again...where's Patt to defend this one.no defending it..... Skin heads tried once, you think it won't happen again? Just quoiting your favorite president... Bushie says "We have to be right everytime,
Terrorists only have to be right once" ....

Dave Lane
10-30-2008, 02:58 PM
no defending it..... Skin heads tried once, you think it won't happen again? Just quoiting your favorite president... Bushie says "We have to be right everytime,
Terrorists only have to be right once" ....

No that is the mantra of the Israeli army...

whoman69
10-30-2008, 04:14 PM
no defending it..... Skin heads tried once, you think it won't happen again? Just quoiting your favorite president... Bushie says "We have to be right everytime,
Terrorists only have to be right once" ....

Bush was far from right every time.

whoman69
10-30-2008, 04:16 PM
I don't know if Barack is a full on Socialist or just a selfish, ego centric guy who is power hungry like most pols but especially Dems. I do know this. He's going to weaken the military, raise taxes on the middle class (I know he said he won't but he will) because that's where the money is in this country and he's going to try to nationalize healthcare and fine you (tax you) if you choose to stay with your current doctor.

He may turn out to be good for the US abroad as he'll calm our allies and restore some battered frienships but conversely our enemies are going to come right at him. Just ask Joe Biden. It's the only thing I think Biden is correct on.

That's your own personal view, a fear. None of it is part of his positioning.

PRIEST
10-30-2008, 04:17 PM
How come we never hear about all of his non-commie friends? I can't figure it out, either.



or the real commie's . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioJlOjA45fk

Mr. Laz
10-30-2008, 04:55 PM
the cold war is coming!!!!!!!!

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 04:58 PM
That's your own personal view, a fear. None of it is part of his positioning.

So what your saying is don't pay any attention to what he has done or is doing just pay attention to what he says, got it.

kcfanintitanhell
10-30-2008, 04:59 PM
Red Diaper boy ... will likely meet bullet.

That's about the third post I've read of yours where you have used Obama and a bullet in the same sentence.
WTF is wrong with you?

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 05:05 PM
God the whining on here is pathetic.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 05:06 PM
That's about the third post I've read of yours where you have used Obama and a bullet in the same sentence.
WTF is wrong with you?

Extreme, irrational bitterness is what's wrong with him.

noa
10-30-2008, 05:09 PM
"literally from the moment of birth"


ROFL

I literally jumped out the window when I read that.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:10 PM
Extreme, irrational bitterness is what's wrong with him.

So IF Obama gets in you actually believe he is at no greater risk than any other president?

they have already uncovered like 2 plots right?

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 05:12 PM
So IF Obama gets in you actually believe he is at no greater risk than any other president?

they have already uncovered like 2 plots right?

Risk at being assassinated? Yes, I think it probably is higher than average.

I think continually pointing it out probably doesn't help matters. It hints at approving it.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 05:13 PM
Risk at being assassinated? Yes, I think it probably is higher than average.

I think continually pointing it out probably doesn't help matters. It hints at approving it.

QFT.

And it's very sad that in 2008, this is actually the case.

***SPRAYER
10-30-2008, 05:16 PM
http://www.chicagodsa.org/ngarchive/ng69.html

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:16 PM
Risk at being assassinated? Yes, I think it probably is higher than average.

I think continually pointing it out probably doesn't help matters. It hints at approving it.

No it doesn't. It's just the thought that the other side may never accept the extreme left wing nature of who you have brought to the table disturbes you and you don't want to hear it.

noa
10-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Well, I don't think Marxism is anything to joke about.

Humor is a great coping mechanism. You should try it.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:17 PM
QFT.

And it's very sad that in 2008, this is actually the case.

Time is not going to change human nature.

Adept Havelock
10-30-2008, 05:19 PM
Time is not going to change human nature.

Really?

Then why aren't we still hunter-gatherers following the herds for sustenance?

Truth be told, Time is one of the few things that does change human nature.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 05:22 PM
Time is not going to change human nature.

I'm not sure I follow.

Are you implying that white supremacy is human nature?

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 05:24 PM
No it doesn't. It's just the thought that the other side may never accept the extreme left wing nature of who you have brought to the table disturbes you and you don't want to hear it.

I don't really care what the extreme right thinks.

Question -- would shooting Obama if he was the POTUS be justifiable?

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:25 PM
Really?

Then why aren't we still hunter-gatherers following the herds for sustenance?

Truth be told, Time is one of the few things that does change human nature.

Many things may change but the rise and fall of empires will continue and the way humans interact within those empires to gain control will not.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:28 PM
I don't really care what the extreme right thinks.

Question -- would shooting Obama if he was the POTUS be justifiable?

I think many people may feel it is for any number of reasons I've already listed.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 05:31 PM
I think many people may feel it is for any number of reasons I've already listed.

I didn't ask "many people". I asked you.

kcfanintitanhell
10-30-2008, 05:33 PM
I think many people may feel it is for any number of reasons I've already listed.

This place is becoming slightly scary-but just remember this-should something happen to Obama, Nancy Pelosi is a heartbeat away from the presidency.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:39 PM
I didn't ask "many people". I asked you.

Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.

Murdering babies in late term abortions is not OK is another example but I have given many. There is nothing to stop the left from pushing us way to the left which is what makes this presidency so dangerous.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:40 PM
This place is becoming slightly scary-but just remember this-should something happen to Obama, Nancy Pelosi is a heartbeat away from the presidency.

OK I'm officially depressed now. LMAO

Taco John
10-30-2008, 05:43 PM
These crackas ass honks are crazy...

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:44 PM
These crackas ass honks are crazy...

Crackas ass honks. LMAO

kstater
10-30-2008, 05:45 PM
Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.

Murdering babies in late term abortions is not OK is another example but I have given many. There is nothing to stop the left from pushing us way to the left which is what makes this presidency so dangerous.

Did I just read this right? What the president does in office determines whether or not it's justifiable to murder him in your eyes?

keg in kc
10-30-2008, 05:47 PM
Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.Wait, did you just say you're okay with assassinating a president as long as you don't like him?

What is that, like justifiable treason?

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Did I just read this right? What the president does in office determines whether or not it's justifiable to murder him in your eyes?

I think I was pretty clear, don't try spinning it.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Wait, did you just say you're okay with assassinating a president as long as you don't like him?

What is that, like justifiable treason?

That's not what I said at all.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.

Murdering babies in late term abortions is not OK is another example but I have given many. There is nothing to stop the left from pushing us way to the left which is what makes this presidency so dangerous.

Someone needs to fit this guy for a straitjacket.

keg in kc
10-30-2008, 05:51 PM
That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not.Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.I guess I'm misreading, because that sure looks like you're saying it's okay to kill him if you don't like what he does in office.

kstater
10-30-2008, 05:51 PM
I don't really care what the extreme right thinks.

Question -- would shooting Obama if he was the POTUS be justifiable?

I think many people may feel it is for any number of reasons I've already listed.

I didn't ask "many people". I asked you.

Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not.

I don't think I'm spinning anything.

Taco John
10-30-2008, 05:51 PM
That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now.



It's ok to murder people if you strongly disagree with them.

You heard it here first!

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:55 PM
It's ok to murder people if you strongly disagree with them.

You heard it here first!

I don't know if you didn't agree with hitler killing the jews would that justify an assassination attempt?

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 05:58 PM
Someone needs to fit this guy for a straitjacket.

Says the self proclaimed anarchist named Hamas who tells everyone to kill themself

keg in kc
10-30-2008, 05:58 PM
I don't know if you didn't agree with hitler killing the jews would that justify an assassination attempt?Would an assassination attempt against Bush be justified if the individual in question felt strongly enough about him?

Adept Havelock
10-30-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't know if you didn't agree with hitler killing the jews would that justify an assassination attempt?

:spock:

Have you really embraced tinfoil-hat thinking to a degree sufficent to believe the President of the United States would be able to execute a systematic extermination of a portion of the citizenry? :shake:

That's even more inane than folks claiming 9/11 was launched by elements in the US Government, IMO.

Taco John
10-30-2008, 06:01 PM
I don't know if you didn't agree with hitler killing the jews would that justify an assassination attempt?


It's not even worth commenting on.

But we've determined that you think it's ok to murder someone if you disagree with them strongly enough. So where is that line drawn?

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:01 PM
:spock:

Have you really gone tinfoil-hat enough to believe the President of the United States would be able to begin a systematic extermination of a portion of the citizenry? :shake:

It's just an analogy. I think everyone can agree at some point justification would be there. Where that line is is the only question. To sit back and just say "so if you don't like the president it justifies killing him" is just ridiculous.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:05 PM
It's not even worth commenting on.

But we've determined that you think it's ok to murder someone if you disagree with them strongly enough. So where is that line drawn?

Great question. I can see why people would feel justified in taking someone out that wants to take away our very most precious right,the right to defend ourself and our family.

Ari Chi3fs
10-30-2008, 06:07 PM
It's truly pathetic watching libs defend this greasy lowlife from Chicago. It's embarrassing just watching you.

is this Mr. Rogers with an Uzi?

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/customavatars/avatar10219_24.gif

keg in kc
10-30-2008, 06:08 PM
It's just an analogy. I think everyone can agree at some point justification would be there. Where that line is is the only question. To sit back and just say "so if you don't like the president it justifies killing him" is just ridiculous.I think Bush is going to go down as the worst president in US history. I think he's harmed this country and our image world-wide to such a degree that I believe it may take an entire generation to recover from it, if it's even possible. He's a black mark in every conceivable way, be it socially, fiscally, internationally. You can pretty much pick a facet of the job at random, and he's found a way to screw it up. I think it says a lot about the US today that he was elected not once, but twice, that we put someone who doesn't have the IQ to assistant manage a quik-trip into the highest office in the land.

Even though I believe that, never once have I thought somebody should assassinate the guy.

Why?

Because I'm not a psychopath.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:13 PM
I think Bush is going to go down as the worst president in US history. I think he's harmed this country and our image world-wide to such a degree that I believe it may take an entire generation to recover from it, if it's even possible. He's a black mark in every conceivable way, be it socially, fiscally, internationally. You can pretty much pick a facet of the job at random, and he's found a way to screw it up. I think it says a lot about the US today that he was elected not once, but twice, that we put someone who doesn't have the IQ to assistant manage a quik-trip into the highest office in the land.

Even though I believe that, never once have I thought somebody should assassinate the guy.

Why?

Because I'm not a psychopath.

I believe Obama has already had 2 attempts discovered from citizens which I believe is more than the entire Bush presidency in 8 years and he is just running for the POTUS. I guess noticing that makes me a psycho in your eyes.

For the record I think Bush sucked as well and I blame him and the Republican party pushing this country so far to the left that someone like Obama has a chance to get into office and be unchecked when he is in there.

keg in kc
10-30-2008, 06:20 PM
I believe Obama has already had 2 attempts discovered from citizens which I believe is more than the entire Bush presidency in 8 years and he is just running for the POTUS. I guess noticing that makes me a psycho in your eyes.Noticing something like that doesn't make someone a psychopath. Trying to justify those assassination attempts, on the other hand...

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:22 PM
Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.

Who gets to decide which issue is THEIR pet issue that makes someone who takes the other side on that issue an "enemy of the state".

I find your position ridiculous. Anybody who takes a shot at the lawfully elected POTUS should get castrated by the Secret Service unless they're trying to impose martial law or impose a dictatorship. Anything short of that is heinous and traitorous.

Murdering babies in late term abortions is not OK is another example but I have given many. There is nothing to stop the left from pushing us way to the left which is what makes this presidency so dangerous.

I think the current Presidency is as dangerous as any we've had (and I'm not alone in that), and yet I don't and wouldn't advocate taking Bush out.

You're talking about murder, anarchy and overturning the wishes of the American people by being a lone a-hole with a gun. Can't say I condone it.

the Talking Can
10-30-2008, 06:24 PM
Let me put it this way. I think it would be horrible what would happen to race relations and it would be a permanent black eye our country would have to wear. That being said what he does in office will determine in my eyes what is justifiable and what is not. Americans have a lot to angry about right now. I understand the anger with this last administration, I had a alot of issues with them too. There are certain things that are just not OK though. Anyone who goes after our 2nd amendment should be considered an enemy of the state IMO.

Murdering babies in late term abortions is not OK is another example but I have given many. There is nothing to stop the left from pushing us way to the left which is what makes this presidency so dangerous.

you're a ****ing scum bag


blows my mind what is acceptable for republicans to say in this forum.....you just rationalized killing Barack Obama...you ****ing piece of shit...

sorry, I meant to say "you racist piece of shit"....wanted to make myself clear...


this place is a fucking shithole...

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:25 PM
I don't know if you didn't agree with hitler killing the jews would that justify an assassination attempt?

I would suggest that Hitler, by his many acts against the democratic (small "d") institutions of that country, by his promotion of martial law, by his usurpation of all power within the country, by his countless murders, and by his genocidal program effectively abrogate any "right" to rule under the institutions that originally appointed him to his position.

To compare passing some kind fo gun control to opening up Obama for "justifiable" homicide to what Hitler did is just a wee bit of a stretch.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:25 PM
Noticing something like that doesn't make someone a psychopath. Trying to justify those assassination attempts, on the other hand...

I never did that. MOF I distincly remember saying what he does after he is in office which he hasn't even won yet. How could I possible have justified them?

You guys are unbelievable, you completely twist everything I say to the point where you are basically just lying.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 06:26 PM
I believe Obama has already had 2 attempts discovered from citizens which I believe is more than the entire Bush presidency in 8 years and he is just running for the POTUS. I guess noticing that makes me a psycho in your eyes.

For the record I think Bush sucked as well and I blame him and the Republican party pushing this country so far to the left that someone like Obama has a chance to get into office and be unchecked when he is in there.

For the record, they weren't actual attempts.

They were "plots" conceived by morons.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:27 PM
I would suggest that Hitler, by his many acts against the democratic (small "d") institutions of that country, by his promotion of martial law, by his usurpation of all power within the country, by his countless murders, and by his genocidal program effectively abrogate any "right" to rule under the institutions that originally appointed him to his position.

To compare passing some kind fo gun control to opening up Obama for "justifiable" homicide to what Hitler did is just a wee bit of a stretch.

I think I covered that already. BTW

-Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938 This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
- Adolph Hitler,

kstater
10-30-2008, 06:28 PM
I never did that. MOF I distincly remember saying what he does after he is in office which he hasn't even won yet. How could I possible have justified them?

You guys are unbelievable, you completely twist everything I say to the point where you are basically just lying.

Yeah guys wait for him to be out of office to decide if murdering him is justifiable.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:28 PM
For the record, they weren't actual attempts.

They were "plots" conceived by morons.

Agreed

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:28 PM
What Ben Franklin once said about John Adams is pretty appropriate for BD:


"He means well for his country, is always an honest man, often a wise one, but sometimes and in some things, absolutely out of his senses."

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:30 PM
you're a ****ing scum bag


blows my mind what is acceptable for republicans to say in this forum.....you just rationalized killing Barack Obama...you ****ing piece of shit...

sorry, I meant to say "you racist piece of shit"....wanted to make myself clear...


this place is a ****ing shithole...

I'm not a republican or racist but don't let that stop you. Anyone who tries to disarm our country should be considered an enemy of the state, period.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:32 PM
I think I covered that already. BTW

-Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938 This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
- Adolph Hitler,

By the time of March, 1938, Hitler had already done enough in my mind to justify his removal from powre at any cost. If you deem this the icing on the cake, that's fine.

The 1938 law wasn't exactly what you paint it as. It was the removal of limits on guns for those deemed friendly to the state, and complete prohibition against those unfriendly to the state.

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-3>[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Germany#cite_note-3)</SUP>
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and Nazi party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbahn) Railways were exempted.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-4>[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Germany#cite_note-4)</SUP>
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-5>[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Germany#cite_note-5)</SUP>
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-6>[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Germany#cite_note-6)</SUP>
Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews) were forbidden from the manufacturing of firearms and ammunition.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-7>[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Germany#cite_note-7)</SUP>So, in other words, it wasn't true gun control. It was gun control applicable to non-party members...

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm not a republican or racist but don't let that stop you. Anyone who tries to disarm our country should be considered an enemy of the state, period.

That isn't even what Hitler did.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:33 PM
What Ben Franklin once said about John Adams is pretty appropriate for BD:


"He means well for his country, is always an honest man, often a wise one, but sometimes and in some things, absolutely out of his senses."

You are right, I do love this country and seeing someone like Obama potentially going into office with his background on guns along with several other issues really concerns me. It concerns a lot of people.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:35 PM
That isn't even what Hitler did.

I wasn't referring to Hitler there. I was referring to anyone in our country that tries to disarm citizens.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:40 PM
I wasn't referring to Hitler there. I was referring to anyone in our country that tries to disarm citizens.

Ok, but nobody is going to remove the Second Amendment, or disarm the citizens.

At most we're talking about waiting periods etc. If Obama has a specific plan on gun control, then I haven't seen it. Not saying he doesn't, just that I'm not knowledgable about it because it's not a hot-button issue of mine.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:44 PM
Ok, but nobody is going to remove the Second Amendment, or disarm the citizens.

At most we're talking about waiting periods etc. If Obama has a specific plan on gun control, then I haven't seen it. Not saying he doesn't, just that I'm not knowledgable about it because it's not a hot-button issue of mine.

His work in the Joyce Foundation dealt with promoting all civilian ownership of firearms. What he will do is one thing but that is where his head is at. Then you take his position on late term abortion. Those two issues alone put him risk with people who are willing and able to carry it out and I am not even talking about anything else.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:46 PM
I am not sure what everyone is all up in arms about the guy hasn't even won the election.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 06:47 PM
His work in the Joyce Foundation dealt with promoting all civilian ownership of firearms. What he will do is one thing but that is where his head is at. Then you take his position on late term abortion. Those two issues alone put him risk with people who are willing and able to carry it out and I am not even talking about anything else.

So what can Obama do directly to change the Constitution?

Answer: Nothing.

Now, he may have an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Justice or two, but Bush has filled the court with conservatives.

Worst case scenario? Dissention in the high court.

Just as it should be.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 06:53 PM
So what can Obama do directly to change the Constitution?

Answer: Nothing.

Now, he may have an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Justice or two, but Bush has filled the court with conservatives.

Worst case scenario? Dissention in the high court.

Just as it should be.

Probably more than one or two, but some of them will be liberals anyways, which is trading an orange for another orange, and not triggering real change.

Stevens is like 88, but he's also about the most liberal member of the Court, so the most likely first one out can hardly be replaced by someone further to the left.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:55 PM
So what can Obama do directly to change the Constitution?

Answer: Nothing.

Now, he may have an opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Justice or two, but Bush has filled the court with conservatives.

Worst case scenario? Dissention in the high court.

Just as it should be.

I know what you are saying. In some ways it's like so what if he hangs out with these guys thinks it's OK to kill late term babies and would love to stip our citizenship of guns he can't do it. Then there is the fact that this guy if he made it into office actually wants this shit and tons of other weird shit like mandatory vaccines for everyone and will be unchecked. We will see what happens. He still has to get in first.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 06:58 PM
Probably more than one or two, but some of them will be liberals anyways, which is trading an orange for another orange, and not triggering real change.

Stevens is like 88, but he's also about the most liberal member of the Court, so the most likely first one out can hardly be replaced by someone further to the left.

What kind of shape is that ol hag Ginsburg in?

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 07:02 PM
I know what you are saying. In some ways it's like so what if he hangs out with these guys thinks it's OK to kill late term babies and would love to stip our citizenship of guns he can't do it. Then there is the fact that this guy if he made it into office actually wants this shit and tons of other weird shit like mandatory vaccines for everyone and will be unchecked. We will see what happens. He still has to get in first.

The Clintons wanted Universal Healthcare. How'd that work out?

All Presidents have things they'd like to implement. The problem is that most Presidents just don't have the power to put things they want into motion, especially if they're huge, sweeping changes.

Unless you do what Bush did and just ignore the Constitution and expand Executive Powers.

But, I don't think that can happen in this particular place and time. I mean, in a time of war or terrorist threats, what President could actually get legislation passed that takes guns out of people's hands?

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Spicy McHaggis
10-30-2008, 07:06 PM
"literally from the moment of birth"


ROFL

When I was born I immediately and simultaneously consumed three Big Macs, watched a John Wayne movie and drank a Miller Genuine Draft.

If you don't like America you can get out.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:09 PM
The Clintons wanted Universal Healthcare. How'd that work out?

All Presidents have things they'd like to implement. The problem is that most Presidents just don't have the power to put things they want into motion, especially if they're huge, sweeping changes.

Unless you do what Bush did and just ignore the Constitution and expand Executive Powers.

But, I don't think that can happen in this particular place and time. I mean, in a time of war or terrorist threats, what President could actually get legislation passed that takes guns out of people's hands?

Not. Gonna. Happen.

I understand what you are saying. He is just everything I despise about the left, I don't need to go through the list again. He brings things I like about the left too.

I still think McCain is going to win so we shall see. We need balance in the SC too.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 07:13 PM
What kind of shape is that ol hag Ginsburg in?

She's 75. Unlike Bush, the Democrats haven't historically believed in appointing young, barely qualified SC justices just so they can serve longer. That may change because, as usual, the Republicans have pushed the envelope.


<TABLE class="wikitable sortable" id=sortable_table_id_0 style="MARGIN: auto; WIDTH: 100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Official_roberts_CJ.jpg/50px-Official_roberts_CJ.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Official_roberts_CJ.jpg) John G. Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Roberts) (Chief Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Justice_of_the_United_States))

</TD><TD>01955-01-27 January 27, 1955 (age 53) in Buffalo, New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo,_New_York)</TD><TD>G.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>78-22</TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">02005-09-29 September 29, 2005</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (2003–2005); Private practice (1993–2003); Professor, Georgetown University Law Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University_Law_Center) (1992–2005); Principal Deputy Solicitor General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Solicitor_General) (1989–1993); Private practice (1986–1989); Associate Counsel to the President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Counsel) (1982–1986); Special Assistant to the Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General) (1981–1982)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/John_Paul_Stevens%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-John_Paul_Stevens%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:John_Paul_Stevens,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) John Paul Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens)

</TD><TD>01920-04-20 April 20, 1920 (age 88) in Chicago, Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois)</TD><TD>Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford)</TD><TD align=middle>98-0</TD><TD>01975-12-19 December 19, 1975</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Seventh_Circuit) (1970–1975); Private practice (1948–1970); Lecturer, University of Chicago Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Law_School) (1950–1954); Lecturer, Northwestern University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_University_School_of_Law) (1954–1958)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Antonin_Scalia%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Antonin_Scalia%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Antonin_Scalia,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Antonin Scalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia)

</TD><TD>01936-03-11 March 11, 1936 (age 72) in Trenton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton,_New_Jersey), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey)</TD><TD>Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)</TD><TD align=middle>98-0</TD><TD>01986-09-26 September 26, 1986</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (1982–1986); Professor, University of Chicago Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Law_School) (1977–1982); Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Assistant_Attorney_General) (1974–1977); Professor, University of Virginia School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Virginia_School_of_Law) (1967–1974); Private practice (1961–1967)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg/50px-Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg) Anthony Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy)

</TD><TD>01936-07-23 July 23, 1936 (age 72) in Sacramento (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)</TD><TD>Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)</TD><TD align=middle>97-0</TD><TD>01988-02-18 February 18, 1988</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit) (1975–1988); Professor, McGeorge School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGeorge_School_of_Law), University of the Pacific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_the_Pacific_(United_States)) (1965–1988); Private practice (1963–1975)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/DavidSouter.jpg/50px-DavidSouter.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DavidSouter.jpg) David Souter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Souter)

</TD><TD>01939-09-17 September 17, 1939 (age 69) in Melrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melrose,_Massachusetts), Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts)</TD><TD>G.H.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>90-9</TD><TD>01990-10-09 October 9, 1990</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (1990–1990); Associate Justice, New Hampshire Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Supreme_Court) (1983–1990); Associate Justice, New Hampshire Superior Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Superior_Court) (1978–1983); Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (1976–1978); Deputy Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (1971–1976); Assistant Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (1968–1971); Private practice (1966–1968).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg/50px-Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg) Clarence Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas)

</TD><TD>01948-06-23 June 23, 1948 (age 60) in Pin Point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_Point,_Georgia), Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state))</TD><TD>G.H.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>52-48</TD><TD>01991-10-23 October 23, 1991</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (1990–1991); Chairman, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Employment_Opportunity_Commission) (1982–1990); Legislative Assistant for Missouri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri) Senator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate) John Danforth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Danforth) (1979–1981); employed by Monsanto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto) Inc. (1977–1979); Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General) of Missouri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri) under State Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Attorney_General) John Danforth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Danforth) (1974–1977)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Ruth Bader Ginsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg)

</TD><TD>01933-03-15 March 15, 1933 (age 75) in Brooklyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn), New York</TD><TD>Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton)</TD><TD align=middle>97-3</TD><TD>01993-08-10 August 10, 1993</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (1980–1993); General Counsel, American Civil Liberties Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union) (1973–1980); Professor, Columbia Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Law_School) (1972–1980); Professor, Rutgers University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutgers_University) (1963–1972)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Stephen_Breyer%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Stephen_Breyer%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stephen_Breyer,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Stephen Breyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Breyer)

</TD><TD>01938-08-15 August 15, 1938 (age 70) in San Francisco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)</TD><TD>Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton)</TD><TD align=middle>87-9</TD><TD>01994-08-03 August 3, 1994</TD><TD>Chief Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (1990–1994); Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (1980–1990); Professor, Harvard Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Law_School) (1967–1980)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/010_alito.jpg/50px-010_alito.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:010_alito.jpg) Samuel Alito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alito)

</TD><TD>01950-04-01 April 1, 1950 (age 58) in Trenton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton,_New_Jersey), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey)</TD><TD>G.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>58-42</TD><TD>January 31, 2006</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Third_Circuit) (1990–2006); Professor, Seton Hall University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seton_Hall_University_School_of_Law) (1999–2004); U.S. Attorney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney) for the District of New Jersey (1987–1990); Deputy Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Assistant_Attorney_General) (1985–1987); Assistant to the Solicitor General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Solicitor_General) (1981–1985); Assistant U.S. Attorney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney) for the District of New Jersey (1977–1981)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:16 PM
She's 75. Unlike Bush, the Democrats haven't historically believed in appointing young, barely qualified SC justices just so they can serve longer. That may change because, as usual, the Republicans have pushed the envelope.


<TABLE class="wikitable sortable" id=sortable_table_id_0 style="MARGIN: auto; WIDTH: 100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Official_roberts_CJ.jpg/50px-Official_roberts_CJ.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Official_roberts_CJ.jpg) John G. Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Roberts) (Chief Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Justice_of_the_United_States))

</TD><TD>01955-01-27 January 27, 1955 (age 53) in Buffalo, New York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo,_New_York)</TD><TD>G.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>78-22</TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">02005-09-29 September 29, 2005</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (20032005); Private practice (19932003); Professor, Georgetown University Law Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_University_Law_Center) (19922005); Principal Deputy Solicitor General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Solicitor_General) (19891993); Private practice (19861989); Associate Counsel to the President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Counsel) (19821986); Special Assistant to the Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General) (19811982)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/John_Paul_Stevens%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-John_Paul_Stevens%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:John_Paul_Stevens,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) John Paul Stevens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Stevens)

</TD><TD>01920-04-20 April 20, 1920 (age 88) in Chicago, Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois)</TD><TD>Ford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford)</TD><TD align=middle>98-0</TD><TD>01975-12-19 December 19, 1975</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Seventh_Circuit) (19701975); Private practice (19481970); Lecturer, University of Chicago Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Law_School) (19501954); Lecturer, Northwestern University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_University_School_of_Law) (19541958)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Antonin_Scalia%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Antonin_Scalia%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Antonin_Scalia,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Antonin Scalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia)

</TD><TD>01936-03-11 March 11, 1936 (age 72) in Trenton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton,_New_Jersey), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey)</TD><TD>Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)</TD><TD align=middle>98-0</TD><TD>01986-09-26 September 26, 1986</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (19821986); Professor, University of Chicago Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago_Law_School) (19771982); Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Assistant_Attorney_General) (19741977); Professor, University of Virginia School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Virginia_School_of_Law) (19671974); Private practice (19611967)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg/50px-Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anthony_Kennedy_Official.jpg) Anthony Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy)

</TD><TD>01936-07-23 July 23, 1936 (age 72) in Sacramento (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)</TD><TD>Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan)</TD><TD align=middle>97-0</TD><TD>01988-02-18 February 18, 1988</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit) (19751988); Professor, McGeorge School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGeorge_School_of_Law), University of the Pacific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_the_Pacific_(United_States)) (19651988); Private practice (19631975)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/DavidSouter.jpg/50px-DavidSouter.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DavidSouter.jpg) David Souter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Souter)

</TD><TD>01939-09-17 September 17, 1939 (age 69) in Melrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melrose,_Massachusetts), Massachusetts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts)</TD><TD>G.H.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>90-9</TD><TD>01990-10-09 October 9, 1990</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (19901990); Associate Justice, New Hampshire Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Supreme_Court) (19831990); Associate Justice, New Hampshire Superior Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Superior_Court) (19781983); Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (19761978); Deputy Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (19711976); Assistant Attorney General of New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_Department_of_Justice) (19681971); Private practice (19661968).</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg/50px-Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Clarence_Thomas_official.jpg) Clarence Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas)

</TD><TD>01948-06-23 June 23, 1948 (age 60) in Pin Point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_Point,_Georgia), Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state))</TD><TD>G.H.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>52-48</TD><TD>01991-10-23 October 23, 1991</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (19901991); Chairman, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Employment_Opportunity_Commission) (19821990); Legislative Assistant for Missouri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri) Senator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate) John Danforth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Danforth) (19791981); employed by Monsanto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto) Inc. (19771979); Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney_General) of Missouri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri) under State Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Attorney_General) John Danforth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Danforth) (19741977)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Ruth Bader Ginsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg)

</TD><TD>01933-03-15 March 15, 1933 (age 75) in Brooklyn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn), New York</TD><TD>Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton)</TD><TD align=middle>97-3</TD><TD>01993-08-10 August 10, 1993</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_District_of_Columbia_Circuit) (19801993); General Counsel, American Civil Liberties Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union) (19731980); Professor, Columbia Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Law_School) (19721980); Professor, Rutgers University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutgers_University) (19631972)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Stephen_Breyer%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg/50px-Stephen_Breyer%2C_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stephen_Breyer,_SCOTUS_photo_portrait.jpg) Stephen Breyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Breyer)

</TD><TD>01938-08-15 August 15, 1938 (age 70) in San Francisco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco), California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California)</TD><TD>Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton)</TD><TD align=middle>87-9</TD><TD>01994-08-03 August 3, 1994</TD><TD>Chief Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (19901994); Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the First Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_First_Circuit) (19801990); Professor, Harvard Law School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Law_School) (19671980)</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/010_alito.jpg/50px-010_alito.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:010_alito.jpg) Samuel Alito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alito)

</TD><TD>01950-04-01 April 1, 1950 (age 58) in Trenton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenton,_New_Jersey), New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey)</TD><TD>G.W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)</TD><TD align=middle>58-42</TD><TD>January 31, 2006</TD><TD>Circuit Judge, Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Third_Circuit) (19902006); Professor, Seton Hall University School of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seton_Hall_University_School_of_Law) (19992004); U.S. Attorney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney) for the District of New Jersey (19871990); Deputy Assistant Attorney General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Assistant_Attorney_General) (19851987); Assistant to the Solicitor General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Solicitor_General) (19811985); Assistant U.S. Attorney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney) for the District of New Jersey (19771981)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

We definately need balance there too. Thanks for posting that.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 07:18 PM
Thsi brings up another good point -- ought to be a 25 year maximum term for SC justices.

Lifetime tenure is fine for lower courts. Even after the 25 year mark the SC justices could opt to step down into an appeals court or trial court if they wanted. But to have more than that at the top bench is absurd. It also opens up the possibility of the WIlliam O. Douglas' -- drooling at the end, insensible.

It also removes the extreme encouragement to appoint someone in their freaking 40s so they can serve for 2 generations. :shake:

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 07:20 PM
I understand what you are saying. He is just everything I despise about the left, I don't need to go through the list again. He brings things I like about the left too.

I still think McCain is going to win so we shall see. We need balance in the SC too.

Hey look: I'm a registered Independent. And I'm not too thrilled with either man as POTUS.

But with that being said, I'm going to vote Democrat for only the second time in my life because I think there needs to be a change in policy up top.

Will it be better? Who knows? Will it be worse? Who knows?

But what I DO know is that any time in our nation's history when things are "bad" and people say we're fucked beyond belief, that's NEVER been the case. So IF Obama takes us down the wrong path, that can be quickly rectified. But "staying the course" at this juncture and after eight years of Bush Doctrine is a mistake IMHO.

As a matter of fact, it seems to me that fixing problems and turning things around is MUCH easier than maintaining a nice status quo.

So with that in mind, I'm voting Democrat.

I hope he performs well enough to have actually earned my vote.

And from everything I've seen and heard in the past week (in my travels to the East Coast and here in SoCal) leads me to believe he'll win in a landslide.

Time will tell.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:22 PM
Thsi brings up another good point -- ought to be a 25 year maximum term for SC justices.

Lifetime tenure is fine for lower courts. Even after the 25 year mark the SC justices could opt to step down into an appeals court or trial court if they wanted. But to have more than that at the top bench is absurd. It also opens up the possibility of the WIlliam O. Douglas' -- drooling at the end, insensible.

It also removes the extreme encouragement to appoint someone in their freaking 40s so they can serve for 2 generations. :shake:

I'd go for that.

gblowfish
10-30-2008, 07:22 PM
Consider the source of this article, the "American Thinker", explained on Wiki:

The American Thinker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American Thinker is a daily conservative webzine dealing with American politics, national security, economics, diplomacy, culture, and military strategy. The articles published are often mentioned on The Rush Limbaugh Show, and the site has been mentioned in leading newspapers including Le Monde, The Guardian, and the New York Times.

Writing in The Nation about what he describes as "a smear campaign" against Barack Obama, Ari Berman says "At the fulcrum of this effort is a little-known blogger from Northbrook, Illinois, named Ed Lasky, whose articles on AmericanThinker.com have done more than anything to give the smear campaign an air of respectability."

Writing in the New York Times, Felicity Barringer credited American Thinker with initiating a public outcry over a California plan to require programmable thermostats which could be controlled by officials in the event of power supply difficulties.

The publisher of American Thinker is Thomas Lifson, and the Political Director is Richard Baehr. Key staff also include Rick Moran and J. R. Dunn. AT reserves "the right to be partisan", hence donations are not exempt from taxes.

[edit]

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:24 PM
Hey look: I'm a registered Independent. And I'm not too thrilled with either man as POTUS.

But with that being said, I'm going to vote Democrat for only the second time in my life because I think there needs to be a change in policy up top.

Will it be better? Who knows? Will it be worse? Who knows?

But what I DO know is that any time in our nation's history when things are "bad" and people say we're ****ed beyond belief, that's NEVER been the case. So IF Obama takes us down the wrong path, that can be quickly rectified. But "staying the course" at this juncture and after eight years of Bush Doctrine is a mistake IMHO.

As a matter of fact, it seems to me that fixing problems and turning things around is MUCH easier than maintaining a nice status quo.

So with that in mind, I'm voting Democrat.

I hope he performs well enough to have actually earned my vote.

And from everything I've seen and heard in the past week (in my travels to the East Coast and here in SoCal) leads me to believe he'll win in a landslide.

Time will tell.

Yea I'm Libertarian and don't like either. Obama was a fiscal nightmare in Illinois, I don't know why anyone thinks he can fix this. JMO

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 07:25 PM
We definately need balance there too. Thanks for posting that.

It's actually a pretty well-qualified bench, with the notable exception of Thomas. I have NO PROBLEM with conservatives on the bench, so long as they are (1) well-qualified, and (2) part of a balanced bench.

Scalia is clearly brilliant and well qualified. I don't have issues iwth Roberts or Alito's qualifications, though they were obviously quite young and chosen for that as much as their conservative credentials.

I suspect Stevens will serve until he dies, but who knows -- he may wrap it up now that a Democrat is in office. Ginsberg is next oldest at 75. So two of the Court's most liberal members are its oldest, and part of a minority of liberals.

Next are the leading conservative mind -- Scalia, and the moderate who is a key swing vote, Kennedy, both at 72. They'd be 76 at the end of a 4 year term, and 80 at the end of an 8.

Then 2 more liberals/moderates -- Breyer and Souter, at 70 and 69, respectively.

The rest are conservatives and so young it won't matter to the next Presidnet, most likely. Thomas at 60, Alito at 58, adn Roberts at 53.

So really a Democrat for 8 years is most likely to have at least 2 (Stevens/Ginsberg) SC justices which will do NOTHING more than preserve status quo. Unless Scalia goes earlier than expected, or Kennedy, or someone dies really young there won't be much change on the Court.

So question -- should Obama feel compelled to appoint someone NO OLDER than 50? 55? Is it now his duty to the left, as Bush saw it to the Right, to appoint people who were more or less guaranteed to serve 20+ years on average life expectancy?

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 07:26 PM
It's actually a pretty well-qualified bench, with the notable exception of Thomas. I have NO PROBLEM with conservatives on the bench, so long as they are (1) well-qualified, and (2) part of a balanced bench.

Scalia is clearly brilliant and well qualified. I don't have issues iwth Roberts or Alito's qualifications, though they were obviously quite young and chosen for that as much as their conservative credentials.

I suspect Stevens will serve until he dies, but who knows -- he may wrap it up now that a Democrat is in office. Ginsberg is next oldest at 75. So two of the Court's most liberal members are its oldest, and part of a minority of liberals.

Next are the leading conservative mind -- Scalia, and the moderate who is a key swing vote, Kennedy, both at 72. They'd be 76 at the end of a 4 year term, and 80 at the end of an 8.

Then 2 more liberals/moderates -- Breyer and Souter, at 70 and 69, respectively.

The rest are conservatives and so young it won't matter to the next Presidnet, most likely. Thomas at 60, Alito at 58, adn Roberts at 53.

So really a Democrat for 8 years is most likely to have at least 2 (Stevens/Ginsberg) SC justices which will do NOTHING more than preserve status quo. Unless Scalia goes earlier than expected, or Kennedy, or someone dies really young there won't be much change on the Court.

So question -- should Obama feel compelled to appoint someone NO OLDER than 50? 55? Is it now his duty to the left, as Bush saw it to the Right, to appoint people who were more or less guaranteed to serve 20+ years on average life expectancy?

This is one of the main reasons that I'm voting for Obama: More diversity on the Bench.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:28 PM
It's actually a pretty well-qualified bench, with the notable exception of Thomas. I have NO PROBLEM with conservatives on the bench, so long as they are (1) well-qualified, and (2) part of a balanced bench.

Scalia is clearly brilliant and well qualified. I don't have issues iwth Roberts or Alito's qualifications, though they were obviously quite young and chosen for that as much as their conservative credentials.

I suspect Stevens will serve until he dies, but who knows -- he may wrap it up now that a Democrat is in office. Ginsberg is next oldest at 75. So two of the Court's most liberal members are its oldest, and part of a minority of liberals.

Next are the leading conservative mind -- Scalia, and the moderate who is a key swing vote, Kennedy, both at 72. They'd be 76 at the end of a 4 year term, and 80 at the end of an 8.

Then 2 more liberals/moderates -- Breyer and Souter, at 70 and 69, respectively.

The rest are conservatives and so young it won't matter to the next Presidnet, most likely. Thomas at 60, Alito at 58, adn Roberts at 53.

So really a Democrat for 8 years is most likely to have at least 2 (Stevens/Ginsberg) SC justices which will do NOTHING more than preserve status quo. Unless Scalia goes earlier than expected, or Kennedy, or someone dies really young there won't be much change on the Court.

So question -- should Obama feel compelled to appoint someone NO OLDER than 50? 55? Is it now his duty to the left, as Bush saw it to the Right, to appoint people who were more or less guaranteed to serve 20+ years on average life expectancy?
You would think so.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:29 PM
This is one of the main reasons that I'm voting for Obama: More diversity on the Bench.

No diveristy anywhere else.

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 07:31 PM
This is one of the main reasons that I'm voting for Obama: More diversity on the Bench.

Yeah, actually if I had the Constitution to rewrite at my whim, I'd consider some kind of "once every 2 years system", so that every justice has an 18 year term, and every President has 2 appointments to make each term. Not more and not less.

Even better, but completely impossible -- Republicans "get" 3 seats (certain minimum qualifications required, such as at least 10 years on federal appeals court bench experience or somesuch), Democrats get 3, and 3 must be selected by concensus of parties. Forget the President/Senate system.

But that's obviously impossible, so it's a waste of time to discuss.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 07:36 PM
Yeah, actually if I had the Constitution to rewrite at my whim, I'd consider some kind of "once every 2 years system", so that every justice has an 18 year term, and every President has 2 appointments to make each term. Not more and not less.

Even better, but completely impossible -- Republicans "get" 3 seats (certain minimum qualifications required, such as at least 10 years on federal appeals court bench experience or somesuch), Democrats get 3, and 3 must be selected by concensus of parties. Forget the President/Senate system.

But that's obviously impossible, so it's a waste of time to discuss.

Well if we're going to play that game, I'd change the 22nd Amendment to read that a President can only be elected for two consecutive terms.

Two terms is restricting, especially given Bill Clinton's success and popularity.

BIG_DADDY
10-30-2008, 07:38 PM
Well if we're going to play that game, I'd change the 22nd Amendment to read that a President can only be elected for two consecutive terms.

Two terms is restricting, especially given Bill Clinton's success and popularity.

With Hillary in New York it would be a internfest.

DaneMcCloud
10-30-2008, 07:39 PM
With Hillary in New York it would be a internfest.

ROFL

Amnorix
10-30-2008, 07:46 PM
Well if we're going to play that game, I'd change the 22nd Amendment to read that a President can only be elected for two consecutive terms.

Two terms is restricting, especially given Bill Clinton's success and popularity.

I'm ok with that, but actually would prefer one six year term and out, but then can re-run six years later.

The problem is one that founders never imagined -- 2 years into your term your starting to gear up for the next campaign. It's not at all good for efficient government.

BucEyedPea
10-30-2008, 08:40 PM
I think Thomas is extremely well qualified. Anyone who feels otherwise, is just against their political persuasion or against original intent.

noa
10-30-2008, 09:17 PM
I think Thomas is extremely well qualified. Anyone who feels otherwise, is just against their political persuasion or against original intent.

I'd say he was decently qualified. I don't know about extremely qualified, though, and it's not my political leanings that make me think that. He had been an assistant AG in MO, but after that spent a lot of time in the political world, particularly as head of the EEOC. He was only a federal judge for two years, which isn't that long. Roberts had also been a fed. judge for two years IIRC, but he had argued before the court a bunch of times prior to that.

Amnorix
10-31-2008, 12:28 PM
I think Thomas is extremely well qualified. Anyone who feels otherwise, is just against their political persuasion or against original intent.

Please. At the time of his nomination he was a pup of 43 years old, and had never done much of anything. His federal judgeship experience at that point was less than three years at that point.

While I object to his judicial decision-making, it's no moreso than I do Scalia's. In fact, Scalia is far more "dangerous" to my side of the fence as the better/deeper thinker and far better writer.

Thomas never was well qualified, and I don't care what his color or politics are. Not compared to the other members of the bench.

Compare to CJ Roberts, who while equally young was Asst. Solicitior General and head of the appellate practice as a highly prestigious DC firm. BEFORE joining the bench he had argued MANY cases before the Supreme Court, compared to Thomas' zero.

Amnorix
10-31-2008, 12:29 PM
I'd say he was decently qualified. I don't know about extremely qualified, though, and it's not my political leanings that make me think that. He had been an assistant AG in MO, but after that spent a lot of time in the political world, particularly as head of the EEOC. He was only a federal judge for two years, which isn't that long. Roberts had also been a fed. judge for two years IIRC, but he had argued before the court a bunch of times prior to that.

According to Wiki, 39 times fo rthe gov't as Asst. Solicitor and another 39 in private practice. If that's right, that's a total of 78, which is absurdly high for someone not yet 40. Indicative of tremendous confidence in his abilities by those he worked for, and that he was a prodigy.

Thomas has NONE of those attributes, instead serving in merely adminsitrative roles.