PDA

View Full Version : OOOOkkkaayy. I believe they didn't think this one through.


jidar
10-31-2008, 07:42 AM
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/wheres_charlton_heston_when_yo.php

Where's Charlton Heston when you need him?

Category: Religion
Posted on: October 29, 2008 9:59 PM, by PZ Myers

Some Christian fanatics are concerned, quite reasonably, about the economy, and have chosen, quite absurdly, to try and correct the problem with prayer. So far, so typical, but then … well, they picked a peculiarly oblivious way to do it. They prayed before a statue of a golden bull on Wall Street.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/29/nice_idol_you_got_there.jpg

We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion's Market,' or God's control over the economic systems. While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble.

Just a clue: there's this book called "the bible" that these people claim to follow, but I suspect they've never actually read it, or they might have seen Exodus 32.

golden_calf.jpg

1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

2And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

3And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

4And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

5And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

6And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

9And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

They even made a movie of it, if cracking a book is too highbrow.

Trust me, this is one of those things in the Judeo-Christian heritage that never ends well. There's this jealous god who does smitings.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 07:43 AM
Was this, like, ironic?

Please tell me they got the joke.

Alphaman
10-31-2008, 10:06 AM
The author of the article (and the responses below the article on the link) are being a bit presumptuous. The article said "We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion's Market,' or God's control over the economic systems. While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble."

So in essence they weren't praying to the statue, but praying against what the statue stands for. This would seem to be an example (quite frankly, another example) of people not understanding how people who live by faith, exercise their faith.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 10:08 AM
They did it the wrong way, that's for sure.

orange
10-31-2008, 10:15 AM
When Ronald Reagan gave a speech denouncing the Berlin Wall, did he:

a - Give it from the Oval Office?
b - Give it from the Berlin Wall?

Nothing to see here - except for the totally deceitful hatchet job by the anti-religious Pharyngula [self-described as "Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal"] and Wonkette (where he lifted the story).

I wonder how many will be taken in by such a simple lie? It seems to have already snared a few right here - I guess they didn't think it through.

Alphaman
10-31-2008, 10:20 AM
They did it the wrong way, that's for sure.

If you have an understanding of people who live by their faith, they didn't.

Taco John
10-31-2008, 10:25 AM
If you have an understanding of people who live by their faith, they didn't.

Uh, no.

I have an understanding of people who live by faith, and these people are oblivious dopes. I'm sure their intention isn't wicked, but the symbolism is about as bad as it gets.

And the whole idea of praying for the economy is one of the most spiritually empty thing a person could pray for. If these people truly lived by faith, then praying for the economy would be the last thing they'd think to do.

orange
10-31-2008, 10:33 AM
And the whole idea of praying for the economy is one of the most spiritually empty thing a person could pray for. If these people truly lived by faith, then praying for the economy would be the last thing they'd think to do.

WTF?! are you talking about??

Praying to avoid THIS is as Holy as it gets:

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/J/1/gd43.gif

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/N/1/gd40.gif

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/T/1/gd8.gif

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/Z/1/gd50.gif

http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/L/1/gd42.gif

Frazod
10-31-2008, 10:35 AM
I can just picture some CEO peering down on this from his corner office saying "Hey, there's a visiting delegation from our idiot-ass power base." LMAO

Taco John
10-31-2008, 10:47 AM
[B]
WTF?! are you talking about??

Praying to avoid THIS is as Holy as it gets:




Uh, no.


Matthew 6:26
"Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not more value than they?"

"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'.. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things" (Matthew 6:31-32).

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 10:53 AM
WTF?! are you talking about??

Praying to avoid THIS is as Holy as it gets:

I think you mean righteous, not holy. Holy means "set apart." Anyway, there are plenty of people that live in vastly worse conditions than that right now, praying to save yourself from adverse conditions is not very righteous.

orange
10-31-2008, 10:56 AM
Uh, no.


Matthew 6:26
"Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not more value than they?"

"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'.. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things" (Matthew 6:31-32).

Are you really that moronic*, or are you just pretending? Honest Christians don't believe God is going to descend as a dove and hand manna to starving people. God helps people through people.

You really must post the scripture wherein Jesus tells folks not to give alms to the poor because God will take care of them....

Then maybe someone will believe your ridiculously constricted view of what Christians believe.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*That's a bit harsh, but since the whole substance of this thread and the article it quotes is to depict a group of Christians as morons, I won't apologize.

Alphaman
10-31-2008, 10:57 AM
Uh, no.


Matthew 6:26
"Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not more value than they?"

"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'.. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things" (Matthew 6:31-32).

People of faith take everything to God in prayer. They believe that God's influence is available and necessary in every aspect.

You should have quoted the next part of that scripture:

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

These people were praying for God's intervention into the economic system of this country, not where their next meal or shirt was coming from. They recognized that this country's reliance has been upon Wall Street and the White House as opposed to an unwavering reliance upon God. They were praying for God's intervention into where we've taken our economic system. They were indeed acting upon a faith that Seeks FIRST the kingdom of God.

NewChief
10-31-2008, 11:06 AM
Heh. Do we have a bunch of readers of the book of common prayer here or something? Here is my pastor's take on today's reading, which has already been used quite a bit in this thread:

Joseph Campbell, the great mythology scholar, coined the phrase "Follow your bliss." During an interview with Bill Moyers, Campbell quoted from the last line of Sinclair Lewis' "Babbit": "I have never done the thing that I wanted to do all my life." Of that line, Campbell said, "That is a man who never followed his bliss."

Jesus says the same thing today as he tells the disciples not to worry about money, power and prestige. Instead, follow your bliss. "Strive for God's kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well."

Frederick Beuchner said that "vocation happens when our deep gladness meets the world's deep need."

How many people have followed the path of Babbit? Doing what someone else expected you to do, striving for money or respect. Jesus tells his disciples, "Life is more than food, and the body more than clothing." Rather than living a life motivated by worry or anxiety, pleasing others or meeting artificial goals, follow your bliss. Let your deep gladness meet the world's deep need. Seek ye first the kingdom of God. And all these things will be given to you as well.
_______

A note about the reading from Revelation.

Maybe you remember when Pope John Paul II survived an assassination attempt. Suddenly "end-timers" had their answer. He was the Antichrist. They were reading our chapter in Revelation today. The dragon gives power, throne and authority to a beast with ten horns and seven heads. "One of its heads seemed to have received a death-blow, but its mortal wound had been healed." A-ha, said John Ankelburg and a host of other end-time dispensationalists. For them, the papacy had long been the primary candidate for the Antichrist, now it had happened.

You would think that with a two-thousand year history of being wrong the strange tradition of trying to historicize apocalyptic literature literally would have eventually become embarrassed and quit. Not so. Just the other day I saw Ronnie Floyd on TV identifying Magog as Putin's Russia, and I think he was saying that Gog had something to do with Islam. Stand in line Ronnie, with a centuries old tradition of abusing the Bible with trivial contemporary silliness.

John is writing about the Roman Empire. He is condemning the civic cult of emperor worship which began with Julius Caesar who was declared a deity by the Roman Senate after his death. Though he was wounded mortally, the beast of Caesar continued and all later emperors claimed to be sons of the divine Julius or of his great successor Augustus. The beast is the Roman Empire and its Emperor.

At the time of John's writing, there was no specific persecution of the church, though Rome ruled with an iron fist. The great threat that John speaks to is the threat of Roman life and culture, the Empire's lure of luxury and glamour and power.

Anyone who wants to make Revelation contemporary doesn't have to do too much imaginative stretching. You don't need to tag the pope or Russia. You need only look at the Empire-qualities of our own culture. You need only look at the temptations of wealth, power, sex, celebrity, and violence to see the beasts that John decried.

John condemned these temptations with vivid apocalyptic imagery. Jesus invited us to turn away from these lures with simple earthy imagery. "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. ...Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. ...And do not keep striving for what you are to eat and what you are to drink, and do not keep worrying. For it is the nations of the world that strive after all these things..."

God knows our needs, and they are deeper than material needs. Follow your bliss, and you will find your life, Joseph Campbell would say. Let your vocation be the place where your deep gladness meets the world's deep need, Frederick Beuchner would say. Seek first God's kingdom, and all these things will be given you, Jesus tells us.

"Do not be afraid, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions, and give alms. Make purses for yourselves that do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

If your heart follows your bliss, there will be your treasure. If your heart follows treasure, you have sold your heart to the Empire.

orange
10-31-2008, 11:08 AM
I think you mean righteous, not holy. Holy means "set apart." Anyway, there are plenty of people that live in vastly worse conditions than that right now, praying to save yourself from adverse conditions is not very righteous.

And as for this...

YOU are assuming they are praying to save "themselves."

I am assuming they are praying to save "others."

Perhaps if the story actually quoted the prayer, we would know the truth...

... of course then the author couldn't misrepresent the whole affair as "praying to the golden bull," so there's no doubt why the prayer wasn't quoted.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 11:15 AM
And as for this...

YOU are assuming they are praying to save "themselves."

I am assuming they are praying to save "others."

Perhaps if the story actually quoted the prayer, we would know the truth...

... of course then the author couldn't misrepresent the whole affair as "praying to the golden bull," so there's no doubt why the prayer wasn't quoted.

I suppose that may be the case, but from a purely Christian standpoint, would it not be better to pray for citizens of a country that are suffering and starving to death than to pray for citizens of a country that might soon start suffering and starving to death, regardless of where one resides?

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 11:19 AM
If you have an understanding of people who live by their faith, they didn't.


No, I do. I'm just sure they didn't think the left would throw the golden calf into the picture as they did.

When someone is sick, we go to them to pray. The same was here, they used the bull as the source, they could have easily huddled in the hall, to the building, etc.

I don't put anything into the picture, it's the left, the atheist who are.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 11:21 AM
Uh, no.

I have an understanding of people who live by faith, and these people are oblivious dopes. I'm sure their intention isn't wicked, but the symbolism is about as bad as it gets.

And the whole idea of praying for the economy is one of the most spiritually empty thing a person could pray for. If these people truly lived by faith, then praying for the economy would be the last thing they'd think to do.

I disagree TJ, sure it is a personal responsibility, but to pray about it is fine. You can pray that the people will make good decisions to help the economy, pray for events to go according to God's plans that all may be good, for the understanding to make good decisions, etc.

orange
10-31-2008, 11:22 AM
I suppose that may be the case, but from a purely Christian standpoint, would it not be better to pray for citizens of a country that are suffering and starving to death than to pray for citizens of a country that might soon start suffering and starving to death, regardless of where one resides?

The one little blurb that is actually quoted:

"We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion's Market,' or God's control over the economic systems. While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble."

These folks have a much broader world view than you surmise - not surprising since you have to dig through the fine print to find even that one reference.

In fact, these are not some way out extremists - they are fairly mainstream - the Christian Broadcasting Network.

http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/cindy_jacobs102008.aspx

Alphaman
10-31-2008, 11:24 AM
No, I do. I'm just sure they didn't think the left would throw the golden calf into the picture as they did.

When someone is sick, we go to them to pray. The same was here, they used the bull as the source, they could have easily huddled in the hall, to the building, etc.

I don't put anything into the picture, it's the left, the atheist who are.

Ah...got it. We are in agreement. Might be the first time we've agreed in this DC forum.

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 11:27 AM
how fuggin retarded :shrug:



this is just scary if you really think about it

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 11:29 AM
No, I do. I'm just sure they didn't think the left would throw the golden calf into the picture as they did.

When someone is sick, we go to them to pray. The same was here, they used the bull as the source, they could have easily huddled in the hall, to the building, etc.

I don't put anything into the picture, it's the left, the atheist who are.

the left is teh debbil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111


praying at a stupid statue of a bull and it's still the evil left. Zomg :banghead:

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 11:30 AM
The one little blurb that is actually quoted:

"We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion's Market,' or God's control over the economic systems. While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble."

These folks have a much broader world view than you surmise - not surprising since you have to dig through the fine print to find even that one reference.

In fact, these are not some way out extremists - they are fairly mainstream - the Christian Broadcasting Network.

http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/cindy_jacobs102008.aspx


That is a good point, and in truth it is a good thing for the economies that are currently at risk to not fail. It just seems somewhat callous to me that citizens of the richest nation in the history of the Earth are praying to, essentially, retain their wealth while people in areas that any failing economies would make no difference to are dying of genocide, starvation, etc. etc. etc.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:31 AM
Uh, no.

I have an understanding of people who live by faith, and these people are oblivious dopes. I'm sure their intention isn't wicked, but the symbolism is about as bad as it gets.

And the whole idea of praying for the economy is one of the most spiritually empty thing a person could pray for. If these people truly lived by faith, then praying for the economy would be the last thing they'd think to do.

Burrito Juan, the arbiter of right and wrong ways to express faith. Hilarious.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:31 AM
how fuggin retarded :shrug:



this is just scary if you really think about it

Ignorant and intolerant much?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:32 AM
I disagree TJ, sure it is a personal responsibility, but to pray about it is fine. You can pray that the people will make good decisions to help the economy, pray for events to go according to God's plans that all may be good, for the understanding to make good decisions, etc.

What's the efficacy on that?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Ignorant and intolerant much?

Nope. You?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Ignorant and intolerant much?

That's really hilarious coming from you.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:35 AM
Nope. You?

Get a job junior. Your opinion doesn't mean much if you aren't working and don't own property.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:36 AM
That's really hilarious coming from you.

The Kalifornia Klown Kontingent rears it's irrelevant head.
Shouldn't you be in the welfare line right about now?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:36 AM
Get a job junior. Your opinion doesn't mean much if you aren't working and don't own property.

Oh, I was unaware it was 1800.

And nice ad hominem too. Love it.

Dave Lane
10-31-2008, 11:38 AM
In with the obligatory :

http://jesusneverexisted.com

Really people read and learn about your religion!

Mecca
10-31-2008, 11:38 AM
Oh I love it, we disagree with Vail so we obviously don't have jobs or aren't productive...

Reminds me of McCain supporters at a rally yelling "get a job" at the Obama supporters, it's like hey you do realize you aren't at work in the middle of the day also right?

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:39 AM
Oh, I was unaware it was 1800.

And nice ad hominem too. Love it.

Translated: Your are right, I don't have a job or a home to call my own. I regurgitate what I'm told by the second rate profs at Moo U as though it were my own oinion.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 11:40 AM
Wow, 10 minutes ago, this was an interesting and on-topic discussion. Awesome.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:40 AM
Oh I love it, we disagree with Vail so we obviously don't have jobs or aren't productive...

Reminds me of McCain supporters at a rally yelling "get a job" at the Obama supporters, it's like hey you do realize you aren't at work in the middle of the day also right?

I'm sorry, I was under the impression you were a student. I apologize for the mis-characterization.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Wow, 10 minutes ago, this was an interesting and on-topic discussion. Awesome.

Who the fuck are you and what is up with the butt-ugly avatar?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Translated: Your are right, I don't have a job or a home to call my own. I regurgitate what I'm told by the second rate profs at Moo U as though it were my own oinion.

:spock:

What kind of translator do you use? I think it's outdated or has a serious bug.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Wow, 10 minutes ago, this was an interesting and on-topic discussion. Awesome.

Don't you love when it changes into "anyone who is liberal is just some college educated person without a job"

Damn that book learnin!

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 11:42 AM
Ignorant and intolerant much?
coming from the leader of the Ignorant and intolerant sector of the U.S.


Rich!! LMAO

orange
10-31-2008, 11:42 AM
That is a good point, and in truth it is a good thing for the economies that are currently at risk to not fail. It just seems somewhat callous to me that citizens of the richest nation in the history of the Earth are praying to, essentially, retain their wealth while people in areas that any failing economies would make no difference to are dying of genocide, starvation, etc. etc. etc.

"Doing well" while "doing good" is a hallmark of modern American Christianity, no doubt about that. ;)

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:42 AM
Wow, 10 minutes ago, this was an interesting and on-topic discussion. Awesome.

Well, on topic, color me shocked no one has called the author of the cited article out for being atheist and therefore not credible, ignorant, a bigot or otherwise.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 11:46 AM
coming from the leader of the Ignorant and intolerant sector of the U.S.


Rich!! LMAO

What's up angy man? Do you think your head will burst if baby daddy loses the election?

orange
10-31-2008, 11:47 AM
Well, on topic, color me shocked no one has called the author of the cited article out for being atheist and therefore not credible, ignorant, a bigot or otherwise.

The author's own words: "Some Christian fanatics are concerned..."

No, he's not a bigot.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 11:48 AM
Well, on topic, color me shocked no one has called the author of the cited article out for being atheist and therefore not credible, ignorant, a bigot or otherwise.

Well, the author was called presumptuous, then there was an accusation of misrepresentation. Harsh language, certainly. Oh, nevermind, right above this post.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:48 AM
The author's own words: "Some Christian fanatics are concerned..."

No, he's not a bigot.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 11:49 AM
the left is teh debbil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111


praying at a stupid statue of a bull and it's still the evil left. Zomg :banghead:

It was the ideal the thread title made that praying ti the bull was the same as praying to the golden calf.

It's not is what I said, it's the atheist who are making it appear that it is.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:50 AM
It was the ideal the thread title made that praying ti the bull was the same as praying to the golden calf.

It's not is what I said, it's the atheist who are making it appear that it is.

It's not the same?

orange
10-31-2008, 11:53 AM
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

Yes, it WAS sarcasm. Your meter is trying to tell you - maybe it needs a little WD40.

Robo-Chachi
10-31-2008, 11:54 AM
WWJD?

If he were here do you think he would be doing this?

"Hey everyone, let's go to Wall Street and pray. Everyone touch the bull!!!"

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:54 AM
Yes, it WAS sarcasm. Your meter is trying to tell you - maybe it needs a little WD40.

Well, I guess I'd like to hear your definition of bigot.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 11:55 AM
WWJD?

If he were here do you think he would be doing this?

"Hey everyone, let's go to Wall Street and pray. Everyone touch the bull!!!"

If Jesus was here, he'd be locked up in an insane asylum or on the streets claiming he's Jesus.

No one would believe him of course.

orange
10-31-2008, 11:55 AM
It's not the same?

No. They are NOT praying to the bull.

They are using the bull as a symbol of what they are praying against.

The author - and Wonkette originally - completely FABRICATED the whole "praying to the bull" nonsense.

Alright?

Robo-Chachi
10-31-2008, 11:56 AM
But what if he were able to raise Ford's stock into double-digits?

whoman69
10-31-2008, 11:57 AM
Prayer is fine. The symbolism of this is just bad though. Just remember if you pray for something, sometimes the answer is no.

orange
10-31-2008, 11:58 AM
Well, I guess I'd like to hear your definition of bigot.

Calling someone a "fanatic" because that someone prays. That's bigotry.

There's a lot more, of course, but that example applies here specifically.

I would say a "fanatic" is someone who blows himself up in a subway full of people or the like.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 12:03 PM
Calling someone a "fanatic" because that someone prays. That's bigotry.

Not really. It correctly identifies who is dong what.

There's a lot more, of course, but that example applies here specifically.

No, it doesn't really apply.


I would say a "fanatic" is someone who blows himself up in a subway full of people or the like.
Not really. Christians have fanatics too. It's just they got over the "kill everyone else" stage long ago. Islam is just coming into that part of world religion phases.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:05 PM
Christian fanaticism is just as scary as the Islam fanatics just no one talks about it because our country is 80% Christian so I guess that's ok.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:05 PM
Joseph Campbell, the great mythology scholar, coined the phrase "Follow your bliss." During an interview with Bill Moyers, Campbell quoted from the last line of Sinclair Lewis' "Babbit": "I have never done the thing that I wanted to do all my life." Of that line, Campbell said, "That is a man who never followed his bliss."

Jesus says the same thing today as he tells the disciples not to worry about money, power and prestige. Instead, follow your bliss. "Strive for God's kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well."Sheeeeeeeeit. That's motivational, holmes.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 12:05 PM
No. They are NOT praying to the bull.

They are using the bull as a symbol of what they are praying against.

The author - and Wonkette originally - completely FABRICATED the whole "praying to the bull" nonsense.

Alright?

Apparently, you cannot read.

“We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the ‘Lion’s Market,’ or God’s control over the economic systems.”

That describes "fanaticism" and it describes that they are praying at the site of the bull to ask god to turn it into a Lion.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:06 PM
Christian fanaticism is just as scary as the Islam fanatics just no one talks about it because our country is 80% Christian so I guess that's ok.

That and the whole lack of homicidal maniacs.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:06 PM
Not really. Christians have fanatics too. It's just they got over the "kill everyone else" stage long ago. Islam is just coming into that part of world religion phases.http://i34.tinypic.com/10dtj50.jpg

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:07 PM
That and the whole lack of homicidal maniacs.

Blowing up abortion clinics is perfectly acceptable isn't it?

orange
10-31-2008, 12:07 PM
Not really. It correctly identifies who is dong what.

Really, now. What in the article suggests that these people are fanatics - the ONLY thing I see mentioned is this prayer session - a demonstration for publicity just like any political rally.

I see NO fanaticism here. Maybe you do... because, like the author, you consider praying to be fanaticism.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:07 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/10dtj50.jpg

Says the reject who would be better off tied to a fence post.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 12:08 PM
That and the whole lack of homicidal maniacs.

I forgot you were the same person who just throws history by the wayside.

And apparently the abortion clinic bombers aren't homicidal maniacs.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:08 PM
Blowing up abortion clinics is perfectly acceptable isn't it?

No, not at all. Shall we compare the number of abortion clinic fatalities with the number of homicidal islamic fatalities?
You go first.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:09 PM
That and the whole lack of homicidal maniacs.The whole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph) lack?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:09 PM
Says the reject who would be better off tied to a fence post.

That's a brilliant comeback.....I enjoy how the forum shields people to say things they'd never ever say in a real life scenario.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:09 PM
No, not at all. Shall we compare the number of abortion clinic fatalities with the number of homicidal islamic fatalities?
You go first.

Crusades don't count either.......that really bloody Christian history, no don't look at that no over here!

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:10 PM
Says the reject who would be better off tied to a fence post.Have been, am, and always will be a better person than you.

ttyl

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 12:11 PM
Really, now. What in the article suggests that these people are fanatics - the ONLY thing I see mentioned is this prayer session - a demonstration for publicity just like any political rally.

I posted a quote from them:

“We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the ‘Lion’s Market,’ or God’s control over the economic systems.”



I see NO fanaticism here. Maybe you do... because, like the author, you consider praying to be fanaticism.

I consider praying to be retarded. Nothing more than wishful thinking with the efficacy of a coin landing heads up 3 out of 4 times.

However, that quote signals fanaticism. And the people in the picture are either extremely gullible or fanatics.


Says the reject who would be better off tied to a fence post.

Excellent rebuttal.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:11 PM
That's a brilliant comeback.....I enjoy how the forum shields people to say things they'd never ever say in a real life scenario.

Get a haircut.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:11 PM
Have been, am, and always will be a better person than you.

ttyl

Even if you don't know what kind of person you are.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:11 PM
Vailpass the new Kc Johnny, do you like pie too?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 12:12 PM
No, not at all. Shall we compare the number of abortion clinic fatalities with the number of homicidal islamic fatalities?
You go first.

Oh, so now it's a numbers game?

Okay.

Christianity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Islam

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:12 PM
Get a haircut.Wow, you're really original. This is the kind of cutting edge humor we've come to expect from vailpass.

orange
10-31-2008, 12:12 PM
Apparently, you cannot read.



That describes "fanaticism" and it describes that they are praying at the site of the bull to ask god to turn it into a Lion.



The ACTUAL quote: “We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion’s Market,' or God’s control over the economic systems,” she said. “While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble.”

http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/cindy_jacobs102008.aspx

Apparently, YOU think there are literally BULLS and BEARS controlling Wall Street, and that those animals and Cindy Jacobs' LION are actual beasts and not just symbols.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:12 PM
What's the efficacy on that?

It's over your head ...... sorry.

|Zach|
10-31-2008, 12:12 PM
It's over your head ...... sorry.
Roy, still really curious about your answers here and am confused as to why you are unwilling to back up your posts...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=117

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:13 PM
Even if you don't know what kind of person you are.

Cause you know UP makes a nice point and you're comeback is a lovely personal insult to her....

I can't say I'm overly surprised.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:13 PM
Even if you don't know what kind of person you are.I'm "confused," is that it? That's so clevvvver, champ.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:15 PM
Cause you know UP makes a nice point and you're comeback is a lovely personal insult to her....

I can't say I'm overly surprised.

"Her"? Oh for God's sake.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:15 PM
Anyone's belief system is going to appear fanatical to those that don't share it. The definition of fanaticism is excessive, irrational zeal. Who decides what's excessive? Who decides what's rational?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:16 PM
"Her"? Oh for God's sake.

It amazes me that you are still allowed to post here.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:19 PM
It amazes me that you are still allowed to post here.

On what grounds would you censor me? Because you don't agree with what I say? Because you get butt hurt over nothing?
This cesspool of a forum was created for such speech; do you appoint yourself judge and jror?

orange
10-31-2008, 12:19 PM
I consider praying to be retarded. Nothing more than wishful thinking with the efficacy of a coin landing heads up 3 out of 4 times.




Well, I guess that settles it, then.

A new CBS News poll shows that almost all Americans believe in God or some higher power and more than half pray often and consider religion an important component of their daily lives.

Eighty-two percent of poll respondents said they believe in God, with nine percent saying they had faith in some sort of higher power or spirit. Doubt about the existence of God was highest in the "young" demographic as well that of political independents, those living in the West, people who live in big cities and men.

Fifty-nine percent of Americans indicated that they pray often and 40 percent said they attend weekly services. Religious observation also seems to have an effect on political preferences. Half of those who said they attend religious services almost every week approve of President Bush's job performance. However, a significant percentage of those who are less and non-observant of a religion disapprove of the job Mr. Bush is doing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/13/opinion/polls/main1498219.shtml


Someone tell America - most of us are a bunch of retards; irishjayhawk says so.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:19 PM
Oh, good. Everyone is back. Just when this looked like it might turn into some boring discussion about religion.

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 12:19 PM
Do you think your head will burst if baby daddy loses the election?"Her"? Oh for God's sake.
is this some of your fantastic tolerance you were referring to?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:20 PM
On what grounds would you censor me? Because you don't agree with what I say? Because you get butt hurt over nothing?

Because you frequently post with intolerant and racist thoughts?

Maybe you're fine with that but I'm not and good majority of people aren't.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:20 PM
Because you frequently post with intolerant and racist thoughts?

Maybe you're fine with that but I'm not and good majority of people aren't.

That is your opinion. Do you say that you speak for the majority? I find it funny as hell to get clowns like you all spun up over nothing.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:21 PM
That is your opinion. Do you say that you speak for the majority?

Would you like to have a thread about if you should be banned for spewing racism and intolerance?

orange
10-31-2008, 12:22 PM
This thread is getting very hard to follow. Why don't some of you create a separate thread especially devoted to heaping irrelevant invective on each other?

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:22 PM
Would you like to have a thread about if you should be banned for spewing racism and intolerance?

Sure, go right ahead. There has been a lot more talk about banning you from this board than has ever occurred over me.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:23 PM
This thread is getting very hard to follow. Why don't some of you create a separate thread especially devoted to heaping irrelevant invective on each other?

:D Sorry, just having a little fun before my 11:00 a.m. con call. Mecca seems especially easy today.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:24 PM
Roy, still really curious about your answers here and am confused as to why you are unwilling to back up your posts...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=117

That goes nowhere, it's over your head as well .

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:25 PM
Sure, go right ahead. There has been a lot more talk about banning you from this board than has ever occurred over me.

Really, you really think you provide more to the forum......well maybe if you ask your buds like Big Daddy Bootlegged and Stc.

Taco John
10-31-2008, 12:27 PM
People of faith take everything to God in prayer. They believe that God's influence is available and necessary in every aspect.

You should have quoted the next part of that scripture:

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

These people were praying for God's intervention into the economic system of this country, not where their next meal or shirt was coming from. They recognized that this country's reliance has been upon Wall Street and the White House as opposed to an unwavering reliance upon God. They were praying for God's intervention into where we've taken our economic system. They were indeed acting upon a faith that Seeks FIRST the kingdom of God.


You prove my point by adding that further context in. The economy is not the "Kingdom of God." It's part of the world.

They're welcome to pray in front of the golden calf, and believe that they're being spiritual warriors. But real spiritual warriors don't concern themselves with such trifling matters.

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 12:27 PM
That goes nowhere, it's over your head as well .ROFLROFL


as if ....

Pitt Gorilla
10-31-2008, 12:27 PM
Regardless of intent, the picture is funny. That much is clear.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:28 PM
Really, you really think you provide more to the forum......well maybe if you ask your buds like Big Daddy Bootlegged and Stc.

I didn't say I provided anything to the forum, I said I've seen more motions to get rid of you than have ever been directed at me.
I've seen more people on this board express their dislike for you on this board than I have just about any other poster.

Therefore I found it funny that you were trying to work the other end of that stick.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:29 PM
That's because I differ with people on opinion at times....that's one thing, being intolerant is a complete different thing.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:29 PM
Would you like to have a thread about if you should be banned for spewing racism and intolerance?

Please do, then you two can discuss this there rather than in here.

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:30 PM
That's because I differ with people on opinion at times....that's one thing, being intolerant is a complete different thing.

No it is because you are an asshole.:D

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:30 PM
Please do, then you two can discuss this there rather than in here.I'm genuinely curious to know what you expect to glean from a discussion about whether or not religion is dumb.

orange
10-31-2008, 12:31 PM
You prove my point by adding that further context in. The economy is not the "Kingdom of God." It's part of the world.

They're welcome to pray in front of the golden calf, and believe that they're being spiritual warriors. But real spiritual warriors don't concern themselves with such trifling matters.

I disagree wholeheartedly that the economy is a "trifling matter."

Billions of lives would be devastated worldwide by a major depression. If you don't think the poorest countries will be hardest hit you're living in fantasyland.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:31 PM
Please do, then you two can discuss this there rather than in here.

Ok sorry, after seeing several posts like that day after day I had, had enough of biting my tongue.

I have a real issue with people like that especially when he takes shots at another poster who is one of the best people around here.

|Zach|
10-31-2008, 12:33 PM
That goes nowhere, it's over your head as well .

No it isn't. You just can't actually back up the shit you read on blogs and pass off as your own thoughts.

I am here...I am listening...

I think you are too stupid to explain any of that to me without googling and cutting and pasting.

But give it a whirl...stop running from it.

I am ALL ears.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm genuinely curious to know what you expect to glean from a discussion about whether or not religion is dumb.

If that is truly what you believe this thread was about, then yes, I agree. This is much better.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:34 PM
I disagree wholeheartedly that the economy is a "trifling matter."

Billions of lives would be devastated worldwide by a major depression. If you don't think the poorest countries will be hardest hit you're living in fantasyland.A depression is just God's way of making us spiritually tougher!

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:35 PM
If that is truly what you believe this thread was about, then yes, I agree. This is much better.That's where it's gone.

"Prayer is dumb."
"Nuh uh!"

orange
10-31-2008, 12:36 PM
Roy, still really curious about your answers here and am confused as to why you are unwilling to back up your posts...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=117

Fix your link. It's missing letters.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:37 PM
That's where it's gone.

"Prayer is dumb."
"Nuh uh!"

Well, let's just say it had some help.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 12:38 PM
I disagree wholeheartedly that the economy is a "trifling matter."

Billions of lives would be devastated worldwide by a major depression. If you don't think the poorest countries will be hardest hit you're living in fantasyland.

Perhaps I am living in fantasyland, but it seems like a farmer living in Oaxaca would be hit much less severely than say, me.

|Zach|
10-31-2008, 12:39 PM
Fix your link. It's missing letters.

Ah! Thanks!

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5158163&postcount=117

orange
10-31-2008, 12:39 PM
Perhaps I am living in fantasyland, but it seems like a farmer living in Oaxaca would be hit much less severely than say, me.

Starving people EVERYWHERE will be the first to go.

Taco John
10-31-2008, 12:46 PM
I disagree wholeheartedly that the economy is a "trifling matter."

Billions of lives would be devastated worldwide by a major depression. If you don't think the poorest countries will be hardest hit you're living in fantasyland.


In spiritual terms, the economy doesn't even exist. The economy is not a matter of the Kingdom of God. It's a system of money, that is driven by the free will of men. Praying for it is like praying for spaghetti. Or a football game.

I understand these people probably have good intentions, but their follow-through lacks any amount of spiritual insight. They're standing before a golden calve, laying hands on it, and praying - that what? The credit markets open up again so that Americans can take on more personal debt? The entire thing is ungodly.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:48 PM
No it isn't. You just can't actually back up the shit you read on blogs and pass off as your own thoughts.

I am here...I am listening...

I think you are too stupid to explain any of that to me without googling and cutting and pasting.

But give it a whirl...stop running from it.

I am ALL ears.


WTF are talking about ? :shake:

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:50 PM
Ah! Thanks!

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5158163&postcount=117

Post my comment, I'll do what I can.

But when finished, I have a few for you, OK. We can play these post games all day, at least until it's time for the hoodlums to come around.

orange
10-31-2008, 12:57 PM
In spiritual terms, the economy doesn't even exist. The economy is not a matter of the Kingdom of God. It's a system of money, that is driven by the free will of men. Praying for it is like praying for spaghetti. Or a football game.

I understand these people probably have good intentions, but their follow-through lacks any amount of spiritual insight. They're standing before a golden calve, laying hands on it, and praying - that what? The credit markets open up again so that Americans can take on more personal debt? The entire thing is ungodly.


This article intentionally gives an attenuated and distorted version of the whole event. More specific info would be nice before judging. Here's Ms. Jacobs previewing the event:

Cindy is encouraging prayer groups to intercede for banks and financial institutions in your area. Cindy says each of us has to be accountable to the Lord.

“Don’t think you’re going to be in sin and that God will take care of you in these hard economic times. Holiness is key,” Cindy said. "Each of us has a part to play and should not think that God will indiscriminately bless us without us dealing with personal areas that are wrong. We must repent of any misuse of money, think before we spend, get out of debt, etc., and allow God to do a course correction for us."

Relying on this author's description to give an accurate portrayal of the prayer is like taking Limbaugh's interpretation of an Obama speech at face value.

MagicHef
10-31-2008, 01:04 PM
Starving people EVERYWHERE will be the first to go.

Well, I'm no expert on economic systems, but let's just say that I'm not convinced that's true. I could see it happening where someone was fully reliant on tourism or something similar that required the wealth of others to operate, but other than that, I don't see how the rich coming down, not even to the level of the poor, will cause the poor everywhere to become unable to survive. I don't think that the starving in Africa will become any worse off due to my inability to buy the house I want.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:07 PM
Well, I'm no expert on economic systems, but let's just say that I'm not convinced that's true. I could see it happening where someone was fully reliant on tourism or something similar that required the wealth of others to operate, but other than that, I don't see how the rich coming down, not even to the level of the poor, will cause the poor everywhere to become unable to survive. I don't think that the starving in Africa will become any worse off due to my inability to buy the house I want.

Because the rich will STILL have more than the poor. If there are oil shortages, food shortages, clean water shortages, healthcare shortages - the RICH will STILL get theirs, and the poor will get the shaft.

Thus it has always been, thus it will always be:

The depression had devastating effects in the developed and developing worlds. International trade was deeply affected, as were personal incomes, tax revenues, prices, and profits. Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by 40 to 60 percent. Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on primary sector industries such as farming, mining and logging suffered the most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Frazod
10-31-2008, 01:12 PM
Christian fanaticism is just as scary as the Islam fanatics just no one talks about it because our country is 80% Christian so I guess that's ok.

The only difference between their religious lunatics and our religious lunatics is that our religious lunatics (for the moment, at least) are constrained within the confines of an organized society based on the rule of law. Does anybody out there really believe that The Reverand Billy Joe Jim Bob doesn't string up queers in The Name of God because he thinks killing is wrong, or because he doesn't want to risk getting raped in prison for the rest of his life?

Seriously, nuts is nuts. The object of hatefilled intolerance matters little.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:13 PM
Well, I guess that settles it, then.

A new CBS News poll shows that almost all Americans believe in God or some higher power and more than half pray often and consider religion an important component of their daily lives.

Eighty-two percent of poll respondents said they believe in God, with nine percent saying they had faith in some sort of higher power or spirit. Doubt about the existence of God was highest in the "young" demographic as well that of political independents, those living in the West, people who live in big cities and men.

Fifty-nine percent of Americans indicated that they pray often and 40 percent said they attend weekly services. Religious observation also seems to have an effect on political preferences. Half of those who said they attend religious services almost every week approve of President Bush's job performance. However, a significant percentage of those who are less and non-observant of a religion disapprove of the job Mr. Bush is doing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/13/opinion/polls/main1498219.shtml

Someone tell America - most of us are a bunch of retards; irishjayhawk says so.

Man, I had no idea that the amount of people who believed something made it fact or made the efficacy of it higher. So, all in all, great rebuttal.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:14 PM
The only difference between their religious lunatics and our religious lunatics is that our religious lunatics (for the moment, at least) are constrained within the confines of an organized society based on the rule of law. Does anybody out there really believe that The Reverand Billy Joe Jim Bob doesn't string up queers in The Name of God because he thinks killing is wrong, or because he doesn't want to risk getting raped in prison for the rest of his life?

Seriously, nuts is nuts. The object of hatefilled intolerance matters little.

Nuts is nuts or one nut is different than another nut?

It seemed like you were contradicting yourself.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:16 PM
The only difference between their religious lunatics and our religious lunatics is that our religious lunatics (for the moment, at least) are constrained within the confines of an organized society based on the rule of law. Does anybody out there really believe that The Reverand Billy Joe Jim Bob doesn't string up queers in The Name of God because he thinks killing is wrong, or because he doesn't want to risk getting raped in prison for the rest of his life?

Seriously, nuts is nuts. The object of hatefilled intolerance matters little.Close thread now.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:17 PM
Man, I had no idea that the amount of people who believed something made it fact or made the efficacy of it higher. So, all in all, great rebuttal.

YOUR belief in no God is every bit as religious and faith-based as anyone's belief in God.

Or perhaps you have specific proof that has somehow evaded everyone else for millenia?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But to characterize those who do not share your beliefs as "fanatics"* - THAT is bigotry.

* or "retards" in your words.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 01:17 PM
Nuts is nuts or one nut is different than another nut?

It seemed like you were contradicting yourself.

I think he's basically saying is the only difference in them is one group is in a 3rd world country where there isn't anything to really deter them while the other is in a 1st world nation and has consequences to think about but in the end they are both just as nuts.

Frazod
10-31-2008, 01:20 PM
Nuts is nuts or one nut is different than another nut?

It seemed like you were contradicting yourself.

The controlled nut fears the consequences of his actions. Take that away, and he'll freely do whatever his burning shrubbery commands.

Better?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:21 PM
YOUR belief in no God is every bit as religious and faith-based as anyone's belief in God.

Or perhaps you have specific proof that has somehow evaded everyone else for millenia?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But to characterize those who do not share your beliefs as "fanatics"* - THAT is bigotry.

* or "retards" in your words.

Actually, it's not. Just like it's not religious to NOT believe in leprechauns, FSM, Thor, Zeus, or the orbiting teapot.

And I haven't characterized those who don't share my beliefs as fanatics. Neither has the author. You just made that up.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:21 PM
The controlled nut fears the consequences of his actions. Take that away, and he'll freely do whatever his burning shrubbery commands.

Better?


That makes sense. Sorry for the confusion.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:22 PM
YOUR belief in no God is every bit as religious and faith-based as anyone's belief in God.

Or perhaps you have specific proof that has somehow evaded everyone else for millenia?Bzzzt. The default position is not "either option has an equal chance of being right, no matter how spectacular the claim."

If there is no evidence that something exists, not believing in the existence of said something is not "faith-based," but rather "evidence-based."

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:22 PM
Bzzzt. The default position is not "either option has an equal chance of being right, no matter how spectacular the claim."

If there is no evidence that something exists, not believing in the existence of said something is not "faith-based," but rather "evidence-based."

Yep. Thank you.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Actually, it's not. Just like it's not religious to NOT believe in leprechauns, FSM, Thor, Zeus, or the orbiting teapot.

And I haven't characterized those who don't share my beliefs as fanatics. Neither has the author. You just made that up.

No. He SPECIFICALLY called them "fanatics." You can read it RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE - assuming you can read, of course - and provided NO BASIS for that claim other than THIS PRAYER RALLY. PERIOD.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:26 PM
No. He SPECIFICALLY called them "fanatics." You can read it RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE - assuming you can read, of course - and provided NO BASIS for that claim other than THIS PRAYER RALLY. PERIOD.

And he said SOME, which is not the same as ALL, which is what you said - assuming you can read what you wrote.

There is basis for this claim. This isn't an ordinary type of prayer. Have you not read the quote I've put forth multiple times?

orange
10-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Bzzzt. The default position is not "either option has an equal chance of being right, no matter how spectacular the claim."

If there is no evidence that something exists, not believing in the existence of said something is not "faith-based," but rather "evidence-based."

NOT BELIEVING in SOMETHING is different than BELIEVING in NOTHING.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:28 PM
And he said SOME, which is not the same as ALL, which is what you said - assuming you can read what you wrote.

There is basis for this claim. This isn't an ordinary type of prayer. Have you not read the quote I've put forth multiple times?

I've seen it multiple times and as I've said, I see NOTHING the least bit fanatical about it.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:31 PM
NOT BELIEVING in SOMETHING is different than BELIEVING in NOTHING.

:spock:

You've confused atheism with nihilism?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:32 PM
I've seen it multiple times and as I've said, I see NOTHING the least bit fanatical about it.

Well, that's that then!

orange
10-31-2008, 01:34 PM
Well, that's that then!

I've spelled out what I see as fanatical - hate, violence, murder.

Maybe you should spell out what's fanatical about asking God to prevent a depression?

Sully
10-31-2008, 01:35 PM
Jesus.
Can we not have one religious thread without some asshole Christian acting ass hurt, and some asshole atheist telling Christians they are dumb for believing, and some asshole Christian claiming atheism is a religion, and some asshole atheist claiming Christians are the worst thing ever to happen, and some asshole Christian pretending history doesn't matter, and some asshole atheist claimingthere is no evidence of God (as if we Christians need evidence) and some asshole Christian claiming there is no evidence there is no God (as if that makes any damn sense)...


...and Dave Lane?

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:36 PM
I've spelled out what I see as fanatical - hate, violence, murder.

Maybe you should spell out what's fanatical about asking God to prevent a depression?

Maybe the congregation on a golden calf and the fact they think it will work.

Yeah, fanatical is limited to those three things. :rolleyes:

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:36 PM
Jesus.
Can we not have one religious thread without some asshole Christian acting ass hurt, and some asshole atheist telling Christians they are dumb for believing, and some asshole Christian claiming atheism is a religion, and some asshole atheist claiming Christians are the worst thing ever to happen, and some asshole Christian pretending history doesn't matter, and some asshole atheist claimingthere is no evidence of God (as if we Christians need evidence) and some asshole Christian claiming there is no evidence there is no God (as if that makes any damn sense)...


...and Dave Lane?

We have had that in the past. This isn't one of them mainly due to vailpass.

ChiefsCountry
10-31-2008, 01:37 PM
Jesus.
Can we not have one religious thread without some asshole Christian acting ass hurt, and some asshole atheist telling Christians they are dumb for believing, and some asshole Christian claiming atheism is a religion, and some asshole atheist claiming Christians are the worst thing ever to happen, and some asshole Christian pretending history doesn't matter, and some asshole atheist claimingthere is no evidence of God (as if we Christians need evidence) and some asshole Christian claiming there is no evidence there is no God (as if that makes any damn sense)...


...and Dave Lane?

Holy shit I agree with you on something.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:40 PM
Maybe the congregation on a golden calf and the fact they think it will work.

Yeah, fanatical is limited to those three things. :rolleyes:

The golden bull thing is a PHOTO-OP.

They are NOT praying to it.

Remove that from the equation and you're left with "the fact they think it will work."

Which is - just as I've stated - you think that praying itself marks someone as a fanatic.

Frazod
10-31-2008, 01:41 PM
We have had that in the past. This isn't one of them mainly due to vailpass.

Aren't we sooooooooooo lucky that the King of Corporate America takes time out to hobnob with all us unworthy little serfs between conference calls? LMAO

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:42 PM
Aren't we sooooooooooo lucky that the King of Corporate America takes time out to hobnob with all us unworthy little serfs between conference calls? LMAOKID, I was takin' conference calls when you were in your mother's womb!

Goddamn black people!

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:43 PM
The golden bull thing is a PHOTO-OP.

They are NOT praying to it.

Remove that from the equation and you're left with "the fact they think it will work."

Which is - just as I've stated - you think that praying itself marks someone as a fanatic.

It doesn't matter if they are praying to it or not. ( In fact, why would it make a difference? Golden cow or invisible being?)

It matters that they congregated around a golden calf and were organizing a giant prayer session to make sure god took control of the economy.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:43 PM
KID, I was takin' conference calls when you were in your mother's womb!

Goddamn black people!

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU PEOPLE!

orange
10-31-2008, 01:47 PM
It matters that they congregated around a golden calf and were organizing a giant prayer session to make sure god took control of the economy.

... And you see that as fanaticism. Exactly!

... And I see calling people fanatics because they believe in prayer bigotry. Exactly!!


Now, we should at least understand each other.

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 01:49 PM
... And you see that as fanaticism. Exactly!

... And I see calling people fanatics because they believe in prayer bigotry. Exactly!!


Now, we should at least understand each other.

Am I not tolerating them?

orange
10-31-2008, 01:53 PM
I don't know. You tell me.

Is calling people "retards" tolerating them?

Frazod
10-31-2008, 01:55 PM
... And you see that as fanaticism. Exactly!

... And I see calling people fanatics because they believe in prayer bigotry. Exactly!!


Now, we should at least understand each other.

Nothing about that strikes you as a bit odd? I mean, they could have stayed home or at their church and prayed for the economy. I'm sure lots of folks do this every day. But these people felt inclined to travel to New York and congregate around a statue of a bull. Are prayers for the economy more effective if originated from Wall Street? Perhaps someone could provide some back-up scripture for that one.

orange
10-31-2008, 01:58 PM
This was the Christian Broadcasting Network. This was a TV show to be broadcast to millions - do you understand? Showbiz?

Frazod
10-31-2008, 02:05 PM
This was the Christian Broadcasting Network. This was a TV show to be broadcast to millions - do you understand? Showbiz?

Yes, I get that. Hence the whole media/internet/got picked up by ChiefsPlanet thing.

But you didn't answer my question. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you?

Sully
10-31-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't know. You tell me.

Is calling people "retards" tolerating them?

Are you under the impression that "fanatic"="retard?"

I mean, I'm a Chiefs fanatic.
I'm a Red Wings fanatic.
I'm fanatical in my love for my family.
I'm a fanatic in my love for God.
I'd never even think to be offended by that term.

orange
10-31-2008, 02:20 PM
Are you under the impression that "fanatic"="retard?"

I mean, I'm a Chiefs fanatic.
I'm a Red Wings fanatic.
I'm fanatical in my love for my family.
I'm a fanatic in my love for God.
I'd never even think to be offended by that term.

No. irishjayhawk specifically called all people who pray "retards" in a prior post.

I understand why you wouldn't want to wade through all the BS to find that; suffice to say, ij knows what I'm referring to.

orange
10-31-2008, 02:22 PM
Yes, I get that. Hence the whole media/internet/got picked up by ChiefsPlanet thing.

But you didn't answer my question. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you?

Yes, maybe a bit. But not nearly as bad as the scene from Exodus that this story claims was duplicated.

More on a par with writing a personal letter to God and leaving it at the base of some wall somewhere so it will get directly to him.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07262008/photos/news001.jpg

[edit] Oh, I forgot to mention "while wearing a funny hat."

Frazod
10-31-2008, 02:29 PM
Yes, maybe a bit. But not nearly as bad as the scene from Exodus that this story claims was duplicated.

More on a par with writing a personal letter to God and leaving it at the base of some wall somewhere so it will get directly to him.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07262008/photos/news001.jpg

[edit] Oh, I forgot to mention "while wearing a funny hat."

LMAO

Touche

I guess the question is, who is pandering for the camera, and who really believes what they're doing?

I guess only God knows for sure.

orange
10-31-2008, 02:33 PM
You know, I've been commenting on this thread all day and it just occurred to me...

I KNOW that bull!!

<---------

Frazod
10-31-2008, 02:38 PM
You know, I've been commenting on this thread all day and it just occurred to me...

I KNOW that bull!!

<---------

You just now noticed that? :D

orange
10-31-2008, 02:44 PM
I selected that avatar as sort of a "bull in the china shop" image.

I had forgotten about it's Wall Street origins - my Obama pic made me think about images again.

Bowser
10-31-2008, 02:46 PM
I selected that avatar as sort of a "bull in the china shop" image.

I had forgotten about it's Wall Street origins - my Obama pic made me think about images again.

You're just tuned in, subconciously. ;)

irishjayhawk
10-31-2008, 04:45 PM
No. irishjayhawk specifically called all people who pray "retards" in a prior post.

I understand why you wouldn't want to wade through all the BS to find that; suffice to say, ij knows what I'm referring to.

Actually, I said prayer was retarded. Big difference.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 04:50 PM
Yes, maybe a bit. But not nearly as bad as the scene from Exodus that this story claims was duplicated.

More on a par with writing a personal letter to God and leaving it at the base of some wall somewhere so it will get directly to him.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07262008/photos/news001.jpg

[edit] Oh, I forgot to mention "while wearing a funny hat."Well, you've got a point. Those are pretty funny hats.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 06:45 PM
Actually, I said prayer was retarded. Big difference.


God doesn't think so ........But,to each his own.