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Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 11:10 AM
hell ..... 6 months ago the were ready to vote for Hillary Clinton instead of John McCain. :eek:


now they are fighting to the death for John "their savior" McCain.


wow

headsnap
10-31-2008, 11:13 AM
Correct, when we vote for JohnnyMac we will be voting for the least liberal Dem in the race.

jidar
10-31-2008, 11:14 AM
It's a good part of why Mccain had to pick Palin. He had lost the base because of how unhappy the right wing talking heads on tv and radio were with the Mccain pick.

RJ
10-31-2008, 11:17 AM
It's a good part of why Mccain had to pick Palin. He had lost the base because of how unhappy the right wing talking heads on tv and radio were with the Mccain pick.



I still don't get that strategy. The republican base might have sat it out, but they wouldn't have voted for Obama. By selecting Palin, it appears to me he sent millions of votes Obama's way.

jidar
10-31-2008, 11:20 AM
I still don't get that strategy. The republican base might have sat it out, but they wouldn't have voted for Obama. By selecting Palin, it appears to me he sent millions of votes Obama's way.

To be fair, who could expect a governor of a state to be this clueless politically? Even Alaska? I think it's something we have all just learned in the past couple of months.

Radar Chief
10-31-2008, 11:21 AM
hell ..... 6 months ago the were ready to vote for Hillary Clinton instead of John McCain. :eek:


now they are fighting to the death for John "their savior" McCain.


wow

ROFL “Operation Chaos”.
They were crossing over in the primaries to vote for Hillary because:
1. Dems did it to republicans and is part of why we got stuck with Gramps.
2. To ding Barry so he’d limp into the general as damaged goods.
We’ll see the wisdom of that when theory meets practical application next week.

Alphaman
10-31-2008, 11:31 AM
To be fair, who could expect a governor of a state to be this clueless politically? Even Alaska? I think it's something we have all just learned in the past couple of months.


If McCain had actually spent time vetting her, he could have expected her to be this clueless on national and international matters.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I still don't get that strategy. The republican base might have sat it out, but they wouldn't have voted for Obama. By selecting Palin, it appears to me he sent millions of votes Obama's way.

He probably saw that Bush won by turning out the base and realized without the religious vote he'd lose no matter what.

Sully
10-31-2008, 11:39 AM
ROFL “Operation Chaos”.
They were crossing over in the primaries to vote for Hillary because:
1. Dems did it to republicans and is part of why we got stuck with Gramps.
2. To ding Barry so he’d limp into the general as damaged goods.
We’ll see the wisdom of that when theory meets practical application next week.

In a VERY close contest between Hillary and Obama, you think enough Dems crossed over and wasted their vote on a Republican candidate to make a difference on who the candidate would be?

Really?

Radar Chief
10-31-2008, 11:43 AM
In a VERY close contest between Hillary and Obama, you think enough Dems crossed over and wasted their vote on a Republican candidate to make a difference on who the candidate would be?

Really?

Ask Rush. “Operation Chaos” was his deal and those were his justifications for it.
Personally I’d vote for al Qaeda before I’d vote for Billary in the primaries, general, or for local dog catcher.

Sully
10-31-2008, 11:44 AM
Ask Rush. “Operation Chaos” was his deal and those were his justifications for it.

I'm talking about your point #1, where you claimed "1. Dems did it to republicans and is part of why we got stuck with Gramps."

Logically, that doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 11:44 AM
Ask Rush. “Operation Chaos” was his deal and those were his justifications for it.
hey!!!!!!!!!

only 1 response per thread, Bucko :harumph:













;)

Radar Chief
10-31-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm talking about your point #1, where you claimed "1. Dems did it to republicans and is part of why we got stuck with Gramps."

Logically, that doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

Again, tell it to Rush.
Guess I should’ve explained that as Rush’s justification but I assumed more would have heard of his “Operation Chaos”. My bad.
I only brought it up as a possible reason why republicans would be voting for Hillary.

Sully
10-31-2008, 11:50 AM
Again, tell it to Rush.
Guess I should’ve explained that as Rush’s justification but I assumed more would have heard of his “Operation Chaos”. My bad.

I misunderstood that you were putting all those down as Rush's reasons. My fault, not yours.

However, do you think that's true?

Radar Chief
10-31-2008, 11:56 AM
I misunderstood that you were putting all those down as Rush's reasons. My fault, not yours.

However, do you think that's true?

Not at all, I didn’t mention Rush earlier assuming people had heard of his "Operation Chaos" shtick.
It is true that democrats crossed over to vote for Gramps in the primaries, same the other way around with republicans voting for Hillary. There have been enough people come out and say they did for me to believe that.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 11:58 AM
Verily, the flock has seen the light! Save_us, McSsiah!

Sully
10-31-2008, 11:59 AM
Not at all, I didn’t mention Rush earlier assuming people had heard of his "Operation Chaos" shtick.
It is true that democrats crossed over to vote for Gramps in the primaries, same the other way around with republicans voting for Hillary. There have been enough people come out and say they did for me to believe that.

I'm not buying that enough Dems crossed over and voted for a Rep, when the Obama-Hillary race was so tight, to make a difference at all on who was actually nominated.

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 12:00 PM
how bad would the GOP be trashing McCain if he was running under a Democratic banner even if his platform stayed EXACTLY the same?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:02 PM
how bad would the GOP be trashing McCain if he was running under a Democratic banner even if his platform stayed EXACTLY the same?

They would find someway to say he was anti American, you can ask Max Cleland about what that party actually thinks about military service.

Sully
10-31-2008, 12:02 PM
how bad would the GOP be trashing McCain if he was running under a Democratic banner even if his platform stayed EXACTLY the same?

He'd be the MOST LIBERAL candidate for president, EVAH!!!!!

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:02 PM
how bad would the GOP be trashing McCain if he was running under a Democratic banner even if his platform stayed EXACTLY the same?Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?

Radar Chief
10-31-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm not buying that enough Dems crossed over and voted for a Rep, when the Obama-Hillary race was so tight, to make a difference at all on who was actually nominated.

Maybe you’re looking at this too closely from only one side. Maybe the tight race isn’t so tight without republicans voting for Billary in the primaries. :shrug:

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:04 PM
Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?

Everyone fucks the help, what's the big deal?

Mr. Laz
10-31-2008, 12:13 PM
Everyone ****s the help, what's the big deal?
yea ... really

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/285000/images/_287830_lew300.jpg

vailpass
10-31-2008, 12:18 PM
yea ... really

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/285000/images/_287830_lew300.jpg

DUDE!:Lin:

RJ
10-31-2008, 12:25 PM
Add that to the list of things I'll never figure out.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:26 PM
Correct, when we vote for JohnnyMac we will be voting for the least liberal Dem in the race.Against Roe v. Wade
Against gay marriage
Favors further deregulation
Supports Bush tax cuts for the rich
Supports "teaching the controversy"
Favors vouchers
Against universal health care
Against expanded GI Bill
Supports Iraq war for indefinite period of time

Whatta liebrull!

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:34 PM
He probably saw that Bush won by turning out the base and realized without the religious vote he'd lose no matter what.

He would have ...... that is a rather large base of the party.

It was up to McCain to hold the independant's and that hasn't happened. They balked at the pick and most went to Obama.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:37 PM
He would have ...... that is a rather large base of the party.

It was up to McCain to hold the independant's and that hasn't happened. They balked at the pick and most went to Obama.So do you at least recognize that the majority of the country doesn't buy into the kind of stuff Palin and the religious right espouse?

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:37 PM
He would have ...... that is a rather large base of the party.

It was up to McCain to hold the independant's and that hasn't happened. They balked at the pick and most went to Obama.

You know why independents liked McCain? Because he didn't play to the evangelical crowd.

If you play to that crowd and back their abominable social stands on things most independents are going to be turned off by you. You can't hold indies and run to your base...

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:37 PM
Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?

Link ? Cause surely you aren't bring this up again .

No wait, are you the illegitimate black child ? Is this why you are so angry with him ?

The OCTOBER SURPRISE.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:38 PM
So do you at least recognize that the majority of the country doesn't buy into the kind of stuff Palin and the religious right espouse?

There are plenty of religious people who are fine they don't let it rule their life and they are frankly offended by people like Palin and the zealots because they feel it makes them look bad because they become associated with them.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:39 PM
You know why independents liked McCain? Because he didn't play to the evangelical crowd.

If you play to that crowd and back their abominable social stands on things most independents are going to be turned off by you. You can't hold indies and run to your base...


That is the reason a larger core of them left, because he left his left side views and moved to the right .

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:40 PM
And that right there makes McCain completely inept guess what you run to the center when running for President.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:42 PM
So do you at least recognize that the majority of the country doesn't buy into the kind of stuff Palin and the religious right espouse?


Majority ? I just don't buy that, a large core ? Yes. The left was never going to buy it, the atheist, now way, the independents were divided .

Had Obama turned to a woman like Palin, the hard left would of been OK . I se it the same from either side.

It's more political than just one person, IMHO.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 12:43 PM
And that right there makes McCain completely inept guess what you run to the center when running for President.


And choosing Biden was far left ? Obama came to the right with Biden, ask Jessie Jackson.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:44 PM
It's not that she's a woman, it's that she represents that right wing religious nutjob crowd and people are frankly scared of her being president because she doesn't come off smart and her social views are intolerant.

Mecca
10-31-2008, 12:45 PM
And choosing Biden was far left ? Obama came to the right with Biden, ask Jessie Jackson.

Did you just completely miss the point of my post because that reply seems like it went right over your head.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 12:54 PM
Had Obama turned to a woman like Palin, the hard left would of been OK . I se it the same from either side.Not really. Some on the left were wary of Tim Kaine (anti-abortion personally, pro-choice as governor) and Evan Bayh (DLC drone, complete hawk) as selections. If Obama had picked a completely incompetent far-right VP, people would have gone apeshit.

Link ? Cause surely you aren't bring this up again .

No wait, are you the illegitimate black child ? Is this why you are so angry with him ?

The OCTOBER SURPRISE.That was a quote from the push poll campaign Rove and the Bush campaign ran against McCain in 2000. You know, the same guy whose protege is now running McCain's campaign. So you should definitely trust the claims coming from those guys, right?

http://www.dadmag.com/archive/060400jmccain.php

McCain: Yeah. There were some pretty vile and hurtful things said during the South Carolina primary. It's a really nasty side of politics. We tried to ignore it and I think we shielded her from it. It's just unfortunate that that sort of thing still exists. As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

whoman69
10-31-2008, 01:03 PM
I still don't understand how McBush won the nomination if they dislike him so much. If they wanted someone more like them, they should have tried to change the Constitution so their preferred candidate could run for a 3rd term. We would have loved that.

They knew the crap about changing it so Ahnold could run wasn't going to fly.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 01:07 PM
Not really. Some on the left were wary of Tim Kaine (anti-abortion personally, pro-choice as governor) and Evan Bayh (DLC drone, complete hawk) as selections. If Obama had picked a completely incompetent far-right VP, people would have gone apeshit.

That was a quote from the push poll campaign Rove and the Bush campaign ran against McCain in 2000. You know, the same guy whose protege is now running McCain's campaign. So you should definitely trust the claims coming from those guys, right?

http://www.dadmag.com/archive/060400jmccain.php

McCain: Yeah. There were some pretty vile and hurtful things said during the South Carolina primary. It's a really nasty side of politics. We tried to ignore it and I think we shielded her from it. It's just unfortunate that that sort of thing still exists. As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

My take on Rove is about mine on McCain, OK with some, not all.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 01:10 PM
I still don't understand how McBush won the nomination if they dislike him so much. If they wanted someone more like them, they should have tried to change the Constitution so their preferred candidate could run for a 3rd term. We would have loved that.

They knew the crap about changing it so Ahnold could run wasn't going to fly.

Because McCain moved to the right to get them, enough of them and keep the left to win the primary.

But the general is a tougher haul to make, he's finding this out. Reason he went with Palin, he just wasn't able to hold the left side and the independents like he needed.

He's making a late push now, IMHO, it's too late.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:12 PM
My take on Rove is about mine on McCain, OK with some, not all.So why do you lap up everything they and their lackeys say about Obama without considering the source?

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:14 PM
I still don't understand how McBush won the nomination if they dislike him so much.Romney and Huckabee cut each other off at the knees while Rudy fucked off to Florida, leaving WALNUTS to somehow stumble into a win.

Calcountry
10-31-2008, 01:19 PM
Correct, when we vote for JohnnyMac we will be voting for the least liberal Dem in the race.True dat.

Which befuddles me, the Dems will still get 90% of their agenda with a McCain Presidency. He will be like going, "let me sign on to some of that health care package" "I never met a stimulus check I didn't like"

and lastly, "we have to keep people in their homes and give them NEW mortgages at the lower house price". I heard him say that this morning. Great, use your home for an atm machine, buy boats and big ass cars, and then when the value drops, the government effectively rights off the cars and boats. You call that a Republican?

Moderate Democrats, that are unsure of Obama's ability to aswer the phone at 3:00 a.m, should feel comfortable casting a McCain vote. He reminds me of Jimmy Carter.

Besides, in 4 years, you will have another softie to run against.

You have to think of what is good for the country.

Calcountry
10-31-2008, 01:20 PM
Romney and Huckabee cut each other off at the knees while Rudy ****ed off to Florida, leaving WALNUTS to somehow stumble into a win.I slept like a baby last night.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 01:21 PM
So why do you lap up everything they and their lackeys say about Obama without considering the source?

I don't lap up everything and do consider the source, sources, the scenarios, etc.

Obo is still a deflecting liar ......... he chooses to ignore the question and answer a question with a question. Lie and deflect, oppression is a powerful tool to use.

donkhater
10-31-2008, 01:23 PM
Romney and Huckabee cut each other off at the knees while Rudy ****ed off to Florida, leaving WALNUTS to somehow stumble into a win.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!!!. McCain only was nominated because the base of the party was split between Huckabee, Romney, Guliani, etc. McCain really only ever had a lock on independants and moderate conservatives and even that was tenuous. McCain won a plurality not a majority of the votes. More registered republicans voted against him than for him.

I would reckon that if Edward's affair had come out earlier in the Democratic primaries, Hillary would've swooped up his votes and Barry would be stumping for her right now.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Ding ding ding we have a winner!!!. McCain only was nominated because the base of the party was split between Huckabee, Romney, Guliani, etc. McCain really only ever had a lock on independants and moderate conservatives and even that was tenuous. McCain won a plurality not a majority of the votes. More registered republicans voted against him than for him.

I would reckon that if Edward's affair had come out earlier in the Democratic primaries, Hillary would've swooped up his votes and Barry would be stumping for her right now.Edwards was out before Super Tuesday. I don't see how withdrawing slightly earlier would have changed the trajectory of his supporters' dispersal.

donkhater
10-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Edwards was out before Super Tuesday. I don't see how withdrawing slightly earlier would have changed the trajectory of his supporters' dispersal.

Hillary may not have lost Iowa. Obama's victory in Iowa was a HUGE reason he got the nomination. He finishes second there, and he wouldn't have close to the momentum he had prior to Super Tuesday.

whoman69
10-31-2008, 04:08 PM
Hillary may not have lost Iowa. Obama's victory in Iowa was a HUGE reason he got the nomination. He finishes second there, and he wouldn't have close to the momentum he had prior to Super Tuesday.

In my caucus Obama got more votes than Edwards and Hillary combined. I know it wasn't that way across the state, but the voting system throws off what the actual percentages are. In this vein, Biden was reported to have only one percent of the votes, but it was more like 10% which got put down to zero because 15% was needed for a plurality. When voters were asked to switch from Richardson or Biden because they didn't have a plurality, they switched to Obama. Edwards voters went to Obama before he ever endorsed him.

whoman69
10-31-2008, 04:30 PM
True dat.

Which befuddles me, the Dems will still get 90% of their agenda with a McCain Presidency. He will be like going, "let me sign on to some of that health care package" "I never met a stimulus check I didn't like"

and lastly, "we have to keep people in their homes and give them NEW mortgages at the lower house price". I heard him say that this morning. Great, use your home for an atm machine, buy boats and big ass cars, and then when the value drops, the government effectively rights off the cars and boats. You call that a Republican?

Moderate Democrats, that are unsure of Obama's ability to aswer the phone at 3:00 a.m, should feel comfortable casting a McCain vote. He reminds me of Jimmy Carter.

Besides, in 4 years, you will have another softie to run against.

You have to think of what is good for the country.

You have to be kidding. McBush was the independents choice, but that was before he took a leap right to secure the Republican base. He bought into the anti-abortion plank without exemptions in the case of rape/incest/danger to the mother, and latched onto the Bush tax cuts for the very rich after voting against them before he started running for President.

There is a ton of space between anything McBush wants to implement and the Democratic plank. The stuff he was coming up with about housing was something he came up with on the run. The taxpayers are already into paying for stock dividents and executive benefits with the bailout program. Adding in the price to buy back houses at the former market value would be ridiculous. For health care he wants pretty much the same current approach we have now only he wants employers out of the equation, so workers will foot the entire bill instead.

BigMeatballDave
10-31-2008, 04:36 PM
This republican can't stand him.

Calcountry
10-31-2008, 06:25 PM
You have to be kidding. McBush was the independents choice, but that was before he took a leap right to secure the Republican base. He bought into the anti-abortion plank without exemptions in the case of rape/incest/danger to the mother, and latched onto the Bush tax cuts for the very rich after voting against them before he started running for President.

There is a ton of space between anything McBush wants to implement and the Democratic plank. The stuff he was coming up with about housing was something he came up with on the run. The taxpayers are already into paying for stock dividents and executive benefits with the bailout program. Adding in the price to buy back houses at the former market value would be ridiculous. For health care he wants pretty much the same current approach we have now only he wants employers out of the equation, so workers will foot the entire bill instead.I heard Obama is going to create millions of jobs for his faithful in return for a college education. All you have to do is wear brown shirts.

ROYC75
10-31-2008, 06:47 PM
This republican can't stand him.

I'm just a little bit pissed at him for running a dumb campaign. Obama lies, cheat doubles the campaign donations and McCain is going to lose by a small margin.

A well played out campaign by McCain could have won this thing.

Baby Lee
10-31-2008, 06:50 PM
how bad would the GOP be trashing McCain if he was running under a Democratic banner even if his platform stayed EXACTLY the same?

In this scenario, who's running against him?

Baby Lee
10-31-2008, 06:53 PM
Not really. Some on the left were wary of Tim Kaine (anti-abortion personally, pro-choice as governor) and Evan Bayh (DLC drone, complete hawk) as selections. If Obama had picked a completely incompetent far-right VP, people would have gone apeshit.

That was a quote from the push poll campaign Rove and the Bush campaign ran against McCain in 2000. You know, the same guy whose protege is now running McCain's campaign. So you should definitely trust the claims coming from those guys, right?

http://www.dadmag.com/archive/060400jmccain.php

McCain: Yeah. There were some pretty vile and hurtful things said during the South Carolina primary. It's a really nasty side of politics. We tried to ignore it and I think we shielded her from it. It's just unfortunate that that sort of thing still exists. As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

Why do you have to lie? Why? Is it an irrestistible impulse? An inherent character flaw?

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 10:12 PM
Why do you have to lie? Why? Is it an irrestistible impulse? An inherent character flaw?Why does John McCain have to lie? Why do you have to be a niggling douche about the most innocuous things (assuming you're quibbling with the removal of the ellipse for purposes of flow and baiting)?

If you have a complaint, send it to the Grauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/19/john-mccain-campaign-robocalls-smear-obama) and the many other sources who report that quote.

Are you disputing that the Bush campaign push polled South Carolina voters with disgusting smears about McCain? Because I wouldn't be surprised if you did. That's how you roll.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-31-2008, 10:14 PM
Why does John McCain have to lie? Why do you have to be a niggling douche about the most innocuous things (assuming you're quibbling with the removal of the ellipse for purposes of flow and baiting)?

If you have a complaint, send it to the Grauniad (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/19/john-mccain-campaign-robocalls-smear-obama) and the many other sources who report that quote.

Are you disputing that the Bush campaign push polled South Carolina voters with disgusting smears about McCain? Because I wouldn't be surprised if you did. That's how you roll.

I know that he's argued that supporters of Bush did it rather than the Bush campaign itself.

Ultra Peanut
10-31-2008, 10:15 PM
I know that he's argued that supporters of Bush did it rather than the Bush campaign itself.Nobody can stop those 527s!!!!!!!!!!

Well, Obama did, but... that doesn't count!!!!

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-31-2008, 10:20 PM
Nobody can stop those 527s!!!!!!!!!!

Well, Obama did, but... that doesn't count!!!!

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4808473&postcount=117

Are you suggesting that the Bush Campaign didn't raise the question of John McCain's "illegitimate black child" in the 2000 South Carolina primary? That was an example of Karl Rove and republican party politics at it's best. I find it sad that McCain has chosen to embrace some of the same crowd in his quest for the presidency. I guess Obama isn't the only one who places winning over integrity

Suggesting? No. Stating outright.

How effing stupid, Bush didn't win SC because McCain had a 'black baby.' McCain lost because he personally propounded allegations of smear tactics directly on Bush without a scintilla of proof save the hearsay allegation of one woman, while Bush had proof of McCain's own smear tactics in his hand.

Guru
10-31-2008, 11:17 PM
Not at all, I didn’t mention Rush earlier assuming people had heard of his "Operation Chaos" shtick.
It is true that democrats crossed over to vote for Gramps in the primaries, same the other way around with republicans voting for Hillary. There have been enough people come out and say they did for me to believe that. This is why all primaries should be closed. I have never understood why either party would have open primaries.

The way I understand it, McCain was so far ahead due to democrats crossing over in the open primaries, that Rush was asking people to go ahead and actually register as Democrat for the remainder of the Obama/Clinton slugfest and vote Clinton to beat up Obama as much as possible.

Baby Lee
11-01-2008, 08:08 AM
Are you disputing that the Bush campaign push polled South Carolina voters with disgusting smears about McCain? Because I wouldn't be surprised if you did. That's how you roll.

Of course I dispute it, as there has never been anything but anecdotal evidence of it even occuring, let alone the source.
That you don't just proves you're not immune to the comfort of truthiness.

Ultra Peanut
11-01-2008, 08:24 AM
i c wat u did thar

Baby Lee
11-01-2008, 08:38 AM
i c wat u did thar

Accurately described your emotional transubstantiation of suspicion to fact? It wasn't all that oblique or obscured.

Ultra Peanut
11-01-2008, 01:24 PM
Accurately described your emotional transubstantiation of suspicion to fact? It wasn't all that oblique or obscured.Maybe the reputable news sources reporting it as fact were just falling prey to their desire for it. Or maybe it actually did happen, what with John McCain himself talking about it as an actual event.

Question for Sir BL: Does Karl Rove have a history of ethically questionable tactics, or not?

Baby Lee
11-01-2008, 01:37 PM
Maybe the reputable news sources reporting it as fact were just falling prey to their desire for it. Or maybe it actually did happen, what with John McCain himself talking about it as an actual event.

Question for Sir BL: Does Karl Rove have a history of ethically questionable tactics, or not?

We get it, it feels true, in your gut. That's how truthiness works.

And don't go conflating whether the calls happened and who was behind them.

L.A. Chieffan
11-01-2008, 01:39 PM
Terrorists?

http://www.republicansforobama.org/

Ultra Peanut
11-01-2008, 02:16 PM
We get it, it feels true, in your gut. That's how truthiness works.We get it. You're deflecting. That's how you work.

I'm just making this shit up (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/), after all.

And don't go conflating whether the calls happened and who was behind them.Seems like you're the one contesting that they didn't happen in those posts from a few months ago. But again, who could POSSIBLY expect Rove and Pals to keep those 527s in line? They certainly would have had no incentive to let that smear campaign run wild, or anything.

Answer the question: Is Karl Rove an honorable, ethical man?

Calcountry
11-01-2008, 03:51 PM
i c wat u did tharOH NOOOES.

Baby Lee
11-01-2008, 04:07 PM
Seems like you're the one contesting that they didn't happen in those posts from a few months ago.
Those points weren't about whether or not the actual calls happened. I haven't looked back to see, but in that or some other argument [seriously this has been hashed so fricken' many times] I think I ceded that although they were only hearsay anecdotes I had no reason to deem the people who claimed to have recieved the calls were lying. The points were;
there was [and is] not one scintalla of proof that it was directed by the Bush campaign, and
it wasn't what cost McCain SC.

Quite the opposite, what cost McCain SC was him raising these shadow calls and leveling charges at GW and GW coming right back at him, refuting it and holding in his hand smear flyers of McCain's own against Bush [don't recall what it was, maybe the cocaine stuff, maybe some allegations of shady business deals], with McCain campaign approval denoted on it. McCain's fish-faced 'ya got me' inability to respond was what cost him.

Ultra Peanut
11-01-2008, 05:15 PM
My point was simply that this was the sort of stuff that happened during a Republican primary. So yeah, I wonder what would happen if McCain were the enemy.

I was answering a question. Will you puh-leeeeease answer mine? Is Karl Rove a decent person? Would he frown on an "illegitimate black baby" smear campaign, or anything in that vein?

Adept Havelock
11-01-2008, 05:20 PM
I was answering a question. Will you puh-leeeeease answer mine? Is Karl Rove a decent person? Would he frown on an "illegitimate black baby" smear campaign, or anything in that vein?

For some reason I see a response to that question proceeding in a similar fashion to Hanover Fiste's testimony about the character of Captain Lincoln F. Sternn.

Baby Lee
11-01-2008, 05:48 PM
My point was simply that this was the sort of stuff that happened during a Republican primary. So yeah, I wonder what would happen if McCain were the enemy.
That was a quote from the push poll campaign Rove and the Bush campaign ran against McCain in 2000.

Simply pointing out that it happened huh? By that logic, my 'RIP Studs Terkel' thread could just as easily be "Ultra Peanut murders Studs Terkel." I just wanted to relate that he had passed on.

I was answering a question. Will you puh-leeeeease answer mine? Is Karl Rove a decent person? Would he frown on an "illegitimate black baby" smear campaign, or anything in that vein?

I have no idea. I've never met him. Having chosen an avocation of running political campaigns, I don't imagine he's an Atticus Finch. But I don't know that he's any worse a person than any other campaign supervisor. And I do think that the 'black baby' thing is on jut another level than anything else done by an official campaign, not only in terms of how craven it is, but in terms of how tin-eared someone would have to be to think it'd fly.

And before you start in with the "BL and Rove, sittin' in a tree . . . " Please note the difference between disagreeing with people's positions, or opposing this or that person being the person in charge of telling us how our lives will be lived [which I do all the time], and hating or disliking people [which I very rarely do, and almost never if I've never met, or otherwise interacted personally with, them].