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ROYC75
11-02-2008, 06:51 PM
In an Obama presidency ,Which one do you think will rise or fall faster ? Both ?

Please explain why .

Do you think the deficit will rise faster than inflation.

Or do you think they will both drop, which one drops faster.

WilliamTheIrish
11-02-2008, 06:58 PM
In an Obama presidency ,Which one do you think will rise or fall faster ? Both ?

Please explain why .

Inflation ?

The deficit ?

Which what will rise and fall faster? Than what?

Wait.... What?

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Which what will rise and fall faster? Than what?

Wait.... What? My mistake, I didn't get the question right.

Do you think the deficit will rise faster than inflation.

Or do you think they will both drop, which one drops faster.

WilliamTheIrish
11-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Okay.

Before I answer this question, can you tell me the what the relationship is between the deficit and inflation in todays dollars?

banyon
11-02-2008, 07:17 PM
Short term (prior to Iraq phase-out): inflation jumps, deficit rises faster
Mid Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit falls
Long Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit eliminated

WilliamTheIrish
11-02-2008, 07:19 PM
Short term (prior to Iraq phase-out): inflation jumps, deficit rises faster
Mid Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit falls
Long Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit eliminated

Dammit banyon, there you go giving answers again. I was waiting patiently for ROY to answer.

banyon
11-02-2008, 07:20 PM
Dammit banyon, there you go giving answers again. I was waiting patiently for ROY to answer.

I wasn't going to wait all night fot that.

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Okay.

Before I answer this question, can you tell me the what the relationship is between the deficit and inflation in todays dollars?

Why ?

FTR, I see Obo spending quickly and the deficit climbing faster. As for inflation, depends how much money he uses to bail out other programs that we are currently bailing out that we should have never done.

Will the people reinvest the money they get from the stimulus checks or welfare checks, or sit on it.

A lot depends on the people.

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Obo told Blitzer he wanted another stimulus check, right away , long before any tax programs.

Working on other issues first once in office.

BigRedChief
11-02-2008, 07:26 PM
The deficit will have to go up. Both candidates have to do that. We need some cash injected into the economy right now and hopefully we can pay it back later.

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 07:33 PM
The deficit will have to go up. Both candidates have to do that. We need some cash injected into the economy right now and hopefully we can pay it back later.

We know the value of the dollar dropped by the bailout.

Not to change topics here, but a lot of talk is on jobs over seas now. Jobs that use to be here, some say we need to give them tax breaks to reinvest plats here to spurt the job growth.

Not only offer that, why not just tax the product they bring in. The inbound trade , impose a much higher tax on inbound trade, coupled with the tax breaks to invest the jobs here.

WilliamTheIrish
11-02-2008, 07:34 PM
We know the value of the dollar dropped by the bailout.

Not to change topics here, but a lot of talk is on jobs over seas now. Jobs that use to be here, some say we need to give them tax breaks to reinvest plats here to spurt the job growth.

Not only offer that, why not just tax the product they bring in. The inbound trade , impose a much higher tax on inbound trade, coupled with the tax breaks to invest the jobs here.


ROY, I'm officially convinced you could have been the President the last eight years.

banyon
11-02-2008, 07:54 PM
We know the value of the dollar dropped by the bailout.

We do?


<TABLE borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=390 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>Series: EUR (European Monetary Union Euro)
Noon Buying Rates * XML Download (http://www.ny.frb.org/markets/fxrates/historical/FXtoXML.cfm?CTCD=EUR&Type=SPOT&time=12:00&dt1=09/01/2008&dt2=11/01/2008)


</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>FX DATE</TD><TD align=right>VALUE</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-31-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2682</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-30-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2850</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-29-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2851</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-28-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2476</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-27-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2446</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-24-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2657</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-23-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2878</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-22-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.2835</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-21-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3102</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-20-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3314</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-17-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3462</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-16-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3416</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-15-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3567</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-14-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3658</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-10-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3471</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-09-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3646</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-08-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3680</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-07-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3649</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-06-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3508</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-03-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3816</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-02-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3854</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>10-01-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4058</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-30-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4081</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-29-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4381</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-26-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4596</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-25-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4643</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-24-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4655</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-23-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4737</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-22-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4697</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-19-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4384</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-18-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4382</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-17-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4215</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-16-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4155</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-15-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4175</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-12-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4172</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-11-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.3939</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-10-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4020</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-09-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4173</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-08-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4126</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-05-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4273</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-04-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4360</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-03-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4489</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left width=195>09-02-2008</TD><TD align=right width=195>1.4522</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Not to change topics here, but a lot of talk is on jobs over seas now. Jobs that use to be here, some say we need to give them tax breaks to reinvest plats here to spurt the job growth.

The tax rate could be 0% and it wouldn't bring most jobs back, the primary component of their cost is labor. We don't have Indonesian children willing to work for three cents a day.

Not only offer that, why not just tax the product they bring in. The inbound trade , impose a much higher tax on inbound trade, coupled with the tax breaks to invest the jobs here.

I'm sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Are you talking about raising all tariffs? Or just tariffs as a punitive measure on those who outsourced jobs?

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 07:56 PM
ROY, I'm officially convinced you could have been the President the last eight years.

Whatever......

Our inbound trade is not taxed enough. It's too easy for companies to take jobs overseas because of cheaper wages. So cheap that shipping cost from far away doesn't affect the overall cost to make and distribute. We are currently getting more import trade than export trade, have for several century's, but yet we haven't really addressed this issue because of how much we owe China.

I see this in the transportation industry everyday, I just don't understand how our country can be so damn naive about it.

ROYC75
11-02-2008, 08:48 PM
We do?



The tax rate could be 0% and it wouldn't bring most jobs back, the primary component of their cost is labor. We don't have Indonesian children willing to work for three cents a day.



I'm sorry, this doesn't make any sense. Are you talking about raising all tariffs? Or just tariffs as a punitive measure on those who outsourced jobs?


According to Fox Financial Report last week they still mentioned that the value of the dollar was below what it was when the bailout was done.

Jobs ? OK, Why do the jobs go away ? Answer : Because of cheap labor somewhere else and the rising cost of making the product here in America. So the only way to get them back is to beat them on cost. We can't do it on labor and benefits, we have to give them tax breaks and raise the inbound trade taxes and tariffs to make it competitive that they bring the jobs back from overseas.You have to use them both. If not, we continue to have a trade deficit that hurts our economy.

But to raise our current business's taxes only drives the business's away. We can't do that, you can't tax the sales end of it, we the consumer will pay more.

banyon
11-02-2008, 09:34 PM
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According to Fox Financial Report last week they still mentioned that the value of the dollar was below what it was when the bailout was done.

The bailout has had no appreciable detrimental affect on the dollar, if anything, it has had the opposite effect, though it may be short term only. The point being, we certainly don't "know" the bailout weakened the dollar.

Jobs ? OK, Why do the jobs go away ? Answer : Because of cheap labor somewhere else and the rising cost of making the product here in America. So the only way to get them back is to beat them on cost. We can't do it on labor and benefits, we have to give them tax breaks and raise the inbound trade taxes and tariffs to make it competitive that they bring the jobs back from overseas.You have to use them both. If not, we continue to have a trade deficit that hurts our economy.

It appears you have responded to my argument by denying the premise of my post. Unfortunately, you did so without addressing that premise, namely that labor comprises a much larger component of cost than taxes.

But to raise our current business's taxes only drives the business's away. We can't do that, you can't tax the sales end of it, we the consumer will pay more.

There's no evidence of what you say here. To the contrary, much of the outsourcing (GM to Mexico comes to mind) occurred during periods where there were record profits. Why did they go? Because relaxed trade rules and open labor markets meant that they could make even higher profits by slashing their labor and regulatory compliance costs while continuing to sell to the same markets.

Then you say you don't want to impose extra sales taxes, but you do want to raise tariffs? That doesn't make much sense. It's the same net effect to the consumer.

alanm
11-02-2008, 10:59 PM
Short term (prior to Iraq phase-out): inflation jumps, deficit rises faster
Mid Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit falls
Long Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit eliminatedHe's going to be able to do all that in 4 yrs? :D

patteeu
11-03-2008, 06:29 AM
Short term (prior to Iraq phase-out): inflation jumps, deficit rises faster
Mid Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit falls
Long Term Inflation continues slowly, deficit eliminated

:LOL: Dream on.

Roy, the answer is that the deficit will rise much faster than inflation. I suspect that even the Obama campaign would admit this, although they'd try to blame it all on Bush.

patteeu
11-03-2008, 06:35 AM
Whatever......

Our inbound trade is not taxed enough. It's too easy for companies to take jobs overseas because of cheaper wages. So cheap that shipping cost from far away doesn't affect the overall cost to make and distribute. We are currently getting more import trade than export trade, have for several century's, but yet we haven't really addressed this issue because of how much we owe China.

I see this in the transportation industry everyday, I just don't understand how our country can be so damn naive about it.

The FAIR Tax would address this issue. If you're not already a fan, you should look into it. Under the FAIR tax, exports could be stripped of competitiveness-damaging taxes and imports could be taxed to ensure that they don't have a tax advantage over products produced domestically.

KCJohnny
11-03-2008, 06:40 AM
The FAIR Tax would address this issue. If you're not already a fan, you should look into it. Under the FAIR tax, exports could be stripped of competitiveness-damaging taxes and imports could be taxed to ensure that they don't have a tax advantage over products produced domestically.

:clap:

Want real change? The Fair tax may be the ticket. Of course, its unfair for the marxists who want to manipulate class warfare and 'spread the wealth around'...