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View Full Version : Environment Amazing disucssion on MSNBC between Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan


jAZ
11-04-2008, 07:48 AM
Joe just admitted that the reason that there has been uncontrolled spending by Bush & the Repubilcan Congress for all those years was that Bush was buying support for the Iraq War from the Republicans. Joe said that Bush knew that if he didn't give the Republicans everything they wanted in the way of appropriations, then they would break from him on Iraq.

Pat Buchanan then broke in and said that the same thing happened with him and Nixon. That they "built the great society" in order to get them to leave Nixon and Kissenger alone on foreign policy.

It makes some sense, and at the same time it sounds a little like excuse making. You know... Don't blame Bush, he *had* to do this... he had no choice.

But strip away that spin, and you are left with the two biggest foreign policy disasters in our modern national history only being permitted to continue because of political bribery.

Pretty amazing admission, if you ask me.

Conservatives should be doubley outraged.

KCJohnny
11-04-2008, 07:52 AM
Foreign policy = protect the American people from military threats.

Domestic policy = get votes to do the above.

MSNBC Viewer = willing dupe of the MSM Left.

Scarborough = scorned neo-con.

Buchanon = conservative isolationsist.

whoman69
11-04-2008, 08:04 AM
Uhm, the Great Society was the Lyndon Johnson program.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 08:06 AM
I can't stand either one of those partisan hacks.

Goapics1
11-04-2008, 08:08 AM
Mika is fine though.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080421/080421-Mika-Brzezinski-vmed-12p.widec.jpg

jAZ
11-04-2008, 08:09 AM
Uhm, the Great Society was the Lyndon Johnson program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Society

The Great Society was a set of domestic programs proposed or enacted in the United States on the initiative of President Lyndon B. Johnson. Two main goals of the Great Society social reforms were the elimination of poverty and of racial injustice. New major spending programs that addressed education, medical care, urban problems, and transportation were launched during this period. The Great Society in scope and sweep resembled the New Deal domestic agenda of Franklin D. Roosevelt, but differed sharply in types of programs enacted.

Some Great Society proposals were stalled initiatives from John F. Kennedy's New Frontier. Johnson's success depended on his persuasive skills, coupled with the Democratic landslide in the 1964 election that brought in many new liberals to Congress. Anti-war Democrats complained that spending on the Vietnam War choked off the Great Society. While some of the programs have been eliminated or had their funding reduced, many of them, including Medicare, Medicaid, and federal education funding, continue to the present. The Great Society's programs expanded exponentially under the administrations of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.[1]

jAZ
11-04-2008, 08:12 AM
Classic! ROFL

You say this...
MSNBC Viewer = willing dupe of the MSM Left.

Scarborough = scorned neo-con.

Buchanon = conservative isolationsist.

Yet you admit to the crux of the opening post...
Foreign policy = protect the American people from military threats.

Domestic policy = get votes to do the above.

donkhater
11-04-2008, 08:30 AM
If you are stunned or surprised that this type of deal-making goes on even intra-party, then you are either:

1. a newbie teenager
2. completely and utterly niave

If you think that Republicans are the only party that behaves this way, you are what I would call:

BRAINWASHED

If things like this upset you, then the only prescription for it is to eliminate the cause:

MONEY and POWER.

Take the money and power out of the hands of these idiots and crap like this will go away.

jAZ
11-04-2008, 08:50 AM
If you are stunned or surprised that this type of deal-making goes on even intra-party, then you are either:

1. a newbie teenager
2. completely and utterly niave

If you think that Republicans are the only party that behaves this way, you are what I would call:

BRAINWASHED

If things like this upset you, then the only prescription for it is to eliminate the cause:

MONEY and POWER.

Take the money and power out of the hands of these idiots and crap like this will go away.
You might choose to read the opening post before getting snotting and hurling insults. You'd look a lot less stupid that way.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 09:04 AM
I too am shocked that this is "amazing" to you, jAZ.

jAZ
11-04-2008, 09:08 AM
I too am shocked that this is "amazing" to you, jAZ.
What is "this" in your mind?

patteeu
11-04-2008, 09:14 AM
What is "this" in your mind?

The discussion that you described:

Joe just admitted that the reason that there has been uncontrolled spending by Bush & the Repubilcan Congress for all those years was that Bush was buying support for the Iraq War from the Republicans. Joe said that Bush knew that if he didn't give the Republicans everything they wanted in the way of appropriations, then they would break from him on Iraq.

Friendo
11-04-2008, 09:16 AM
Mika is fine though.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080421/080421-Mika-Brzezinski-vmed-12p.widec.jpg

damn right! :clap::clap:

jAZ
11-04-2008, 09:44 AM
The discussion that you described:

That you can't do anything but cut and paste explains that you don't really know precisely what is amazing. I'll give you another chance.

Tell me exactly what I was amazed by, and thus what shocked you about my amazement.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 09:52 AM
That you can't do anything but cut and paste explains that you don't really know precisely what is amazing. I'll give you another chance.

Tell me exactly what I was amazed by, and thus what shocked you about my amazement.

Your admission suggests that you need someone to hold your hand through this political stuff, but it's not going to be me.

I'm criticizing your words. What better way to let you know specifically what part of your statement I'm criticizing than to quote you directly. Stop playing for time and looking for an out.

jAZ
11-04-2008, 10:04 AM
Your admission suggests that you need someone to hold your hand through this political stuff, but it's not going to be me.

I'm criticizing your words. What better way to let you know specifically what part of your statement I'm criticizing than to quote you directly. Stop playing for time and looking for an out.
I'll give you a hint. The a word in your post is nearly identical to the point of amazement from my post.

donkhater
11-04-2008, 10:24 AM
You might choose to read the opening post before getting snotting and hurling insults. You'd look a lot less stupid that way.

I did.

You wrote:
Amazing disucssion on MSNBC between Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan

Then went on to discribe the discussion.

Form that, I inferred that you thought the discussion was amazing, i.e. surprising/scandalous/shocking.

Note to Obama fans: Words mean things. You might try to listen to what people say without turning on your Obama 'hope' filter.

jAZ
11-04-2008, 10:32 AM
I did.

You wrote:
Amazing disucssion on MSNBC between Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan

Then went on to discribe the discussion.

Form that, I inferred that you thought the discussion was amazing, i.e. surprising/scandalous/shocking.

Note to Obama fans: Words mean things. You might try to listen to what people say without turning on your Obama 'hope' filter.

Maybe between you and patteu, you can pinpoint exactly what about the discussion was amazing. Neither of you have identified the proper point. You seem to be gravitating to the wrong point.

Mecca
11-04-2008, 10:43 AM
Joe should talk about the proper way to kill a woman in your office.

donkhater
11-04-2008, 10:45 AM
Maybe between you and patteu, you can pinpoint exactly what about the discussion was amazing. Neither of you have identified the proper point. You seem to be gravitating to the wrong point.

What are you talking about?

You're the one that said the discussion was amazing (see: Title of the thread).

I don't think any of it was. Didn't surprise me at all. Couldn't believe any follower of modern politics would find it so.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 10:46 AM
Maybe between you and patteu, you can pinpoint exactly what about the discussion was amazing. Neither of you have identified the proper point. You seem to be gravitating to the wrong point.

You're the one who thought something was amazing so you tell us. And try to be more clear this time if you think we've misunderstood you. Nothing about the discussion seems very amazing to me.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 10:47 AM
What are you talking about?

You're the one that said the discussion was amazing (see: Title of the thread).

I don't think any of it was. Didn't surprise me at all. Couldn't believe any follower of modern politics would find it so.

LOL, we appear to be on the same page.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 10:57 AM
Has Joe mentioned this previously? I don't typically follow his program.

jAZ
11-04-2008, 11:02 AM
There are several things that are amazing about the discussion. The one thing that we can agree upon is that a politician like Joe or Pat would ever "admit" to the reality that he did.

That's the singular point that you appear to be missing. It's the word that patteeu used and was the 2nd word in my post.

The admission is amazing.

That said, it's also rather amazing and disgusting that Republicans traded dead soldiers to get another bridge to no where. I don't care who you are, that's certainly disgusting.

It's amazing that not only was this a disasterously expensive war, but it was even more expensive that anyone would have ever thought to count prior to this admission. How many billions in pork were paid to buy or keep support for that wasted war? How much more unstable is our economy because of the debt we accumulated as we money pissed away money on the war itself, or because we delayed our push for alt-energy until after this election (at least an actual investment of that debt), but because we pissed away that debt on horse trading for bridges and boondoggles.

It's rather disgusting all unto itself, but it's truely amazing that Joe and Pat admitted to it.

donkhater
11-04-2008, 11:08 AM
There are several things that are amazing about the discussion. The one thing that we can agree upon is that a politician like Joe or Pat would ever "admit" to the reality that he did.

That's the singular point that you appear to be missing. It's the word that patteeu used and was the 2nd word in my post.

The admission is amazing.

That said, it's also rather amazing and disgusting that Republicans traded dead soldiers to get another bridge to no where. I don't care who you are, that's certainly disgusting.

It's amazing that not only was this a disasterously expensive war, but it was even more expensive that anyone would have ever thought to count prior to this admission. How many billions in pork were paid to buy or keep support for that wasted war? How much more unstable is our economy because of the debt we accumulated as we money pissed away money on the war itself, or because we delayed our push for alt-energy until after this election (at least an actual investment of that debt), but because we pissed away that debt on horse trading for bridges and boondoggles.

It's rather disgusting all unto itself, but it's truely amazing that Joe and Pat admitted to it.

Clearly, obvious statements that don't shock a rational individual get you all riled up. It's becoming more clear as to how you came to support Obama.

go bowe
11-04-2008, 11:24 AM
Mika is fine though.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080421/080421-Mika-Brzezinski-vmed-12p.widec.jpgya got that right...

berry berry fine...

i would vote for her if she was running...

she could probably win as a write in...

but i'll stick to obama...

he's my guy...

jAZ
11-04-2008, 11:43 AM
Clearly, obvious statements that don't shock a rational individual get you all riled up. It's becoming more clear as to how you came to support Obama.

Yes, because politicians are always truthful, even when it's politically damaging.

:rolleyes:

donkhater
11-04-2008, 11:46 AM
Yes, because politicians are always truthful, even when it's politically damaging.

:rolleyes:

These two aren't politicians anymore. They are news show analysts/hosts. Since what they did isn't illegal or surprising, it probably wasn't a big deal for them to admit it.

It WOULD be surprising/amazing if a politician currently up for re-election admitted to this, though.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 11:52 AM
There are several things that are amazing about the discussion. The one thing that we can agree upon is that a politician like Joe or Pat would ever "admit" to the reality that he did.

That's the singular point that you appear to be missing. It's the word that patteeu used and was the 2nd word in my post.

The admission is amazing.

The second word in your post was "just". The third word in your post was "admitted". Notice that it's also the third word in the part of your post that I quoted and that you suggested missed your point.

I don't see much of Joe Scarborough now that he's in the media but he doesn't seem reluctant to call it like he sees it. I've seen plenty of Buchanan and he's definitely not reluctant to speak what he believes is the truth. In short, I still don't see anything amazing here.

That said, it's also rather amazing and disgusting that Republicans traded dead soldiers to get another bridge to no where. I don't care who you are, that's certainly disgusting.

It's amazing that not only was this a disasterously expensive war, but it was even more expensive that anyone would have ever thought to count prior to this admission. How many billions in pork were paid to buy or keep support for that wasted war? How much more unstable is our economy because of the debt we accumulated as we money pissed away money on the war itself, or because we delayed our push for alt-energy until after this election (at least an actual investment of that debt), but because we pissed away that debt on horse trading for bridges and boondoggles.

It's rather disgusting all unto itself, but it's truely amazing that Joe and Pat admitted to it.

For all that Republicans spent, democrats wanted to spend more at nearly every turn. You're arguing this point from a position of weakness.

And I reject every single one of your characterizations of the war in Iraq from reducing it to nothing but "dead soldiers" to calling it "disastrously expensive". If you really believed it was disastrously expensive you couldn't possibly support the candidate that wants to spend at even higher levels on a permanent basis.

Dick Bull
11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
The second word in your post was "just". The third word in your post was "admitted". Notice that it's also the third word in the part of your post that I quoted and that you suggested missed your point.

I don't see much of Joe Scarborough now that he's in the media but he doesn't seem reluctant to call it like he sees it. I've seen plenty of Buchanan and he's definitely not reluctant to speak what he believes is the truth. In short, I still don't see anything amazing here.



For all that Republicans spent, democrats wanted to spend more at nearly every turn. You're arguing this point from a position of weakness.

And I reject every single one of your characterizations of the war in Iraq from reducing it to nothing but "dead soldiers" to calling it "disastrously expensive". If you really believed it was disastrously expensive you couldn't possibly support the candidate that wants to spend at even higher levels on a permanent basis.

I don't see the money being spent being the problem as much as what it's being spent on.

patteeu
11-04-2008, 12:08 PM
I don't see the money being spent being the problem as much as what it's being spent on.

He didn't call the war bad policy, he called it disastrously expensive. If he meant something other than that it was too much of a drain on our treasury he should have been more clear. FTR, I disagree with your take on the worthiness of the return on that spending too. Accepting defeat to save a few hundred billion would have been the real disaster.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Line by line.