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BigRedChief
11-04-2008, 01:11 PM
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Catholic Bishop warns Catholics not to vote for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. The Bishop believes your vote is tied to your eternal salvation.

Inside St. Therese Catholic Church, hundreds of people kneeled and prayed to Mary for help on Election Day.

Those praying included Bishop Robert Finn, leader of the Kansas City-St. Joseph Catholic Diocese. His words raised eyebrows both in and outside his faith.

On local talk radio, 710 KCMO, Bishop Finn warned Catholics planning to vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

Host Chris Stegall asked Finn, "There are some Catholics listening to me right now that are thinking strongly or convinced they will vote for Barack Obama. What would you say to them?"

"I would say give consideration to y our eternal salvation...you make yourself a participant in the act of abortion," Finn replied. That's gravely wrong. You must not do it because your eternal salvation is tied up with that important choice."

"Someone should remind the bishop that his diocese could lose their tax exempt status if they start endorsing candidates," said Nick, a Catholic blogging on Politico.com (http://politico.com/). "That is a disgusting statement."

"So supporting abortion is bad, but supporting war is good," asked another blogger on Politico.com.

The bishop declined interview requests from NBC Action News.

"The bishop did not say voting Barack Obama means going to hell," said Adrienne Doring, Respect Life Director for the KC-St. Joseph Diocese.

Doring said Bishop Finn believes Catholics violate their consciouses by voting for any pro-choice candidate, including Obama.

"I think it's the truth," said Ann Verhulst, a Catholic who supports Bishop Finn.

Those attending Ma ss with Bishop Finn Monday night fully support his stance.

"If you believe you're going to elect somebody who is pro-abortion, then yes, your conscious is violated and you are making a serious error," said Alan Verhulst.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/political-nbc/story.aspx?content_id=a6efe4c6-7d61-4f88-b6a5-58cb13c70f8f (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/political-nbc/story.aspx?content_id=a6efe4c6-7d61-4f88-b6a5-58cb13c70f8f)

Mecca
11-04-2008, 01:13 PM
I'm sorry there are way more important issues than abortion.

keg in kc
11-04-2008, 01:14 PM
Don't violate your conscious.

Mecca
11-04-2008, 01:15 PM
The Bishop violates my intelligence.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 01:15 PM
Seperation of church and state. Quit using God as you see fit.

keg in kc
11-04-2008, 01:16 PM
The Bishop violates my intelligence.It's a small violation, but a violation nonetheless.

(zing!)

Mecca
11-04-2008, 01:16 PM
It's a small violation, but a violation nonetheless.

(zing!)

Damn you!

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:17 PM
it isn't like catholics pay attention to what their religion says anyway....

RJ
11-04-2008, 01:18 PM
It's a small violation, but a violation nonetheless.

(zing!)



Pretty clever, I must say.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:19 PM
Oh good a Catholic bash.

HolmeZz
11-04-2008, 01:20 PM
HolmeZz: the covering up of child molestation cases = eternal damnation and a tad worse than voting for Obama

nychief
11-04-2008, 01:20 PM
Did he have his dick in a little boy when he said this?

chiefforlife
11-04-2008, 01:23 PM
The Catholics sure do send a lot of people to hell...

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 01:23 PM
Hey the people that cruxified Jesus will now tell me how to vote.

BucEyedPea
11-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Well when you advocate for legal infanticide what'd you expect?

BucEyedPea
11-04-2008, 01:33 PM
it isn't like catholics pay attention to what their religion says anyway....

Sad, but true. Most are going to hell anyway per their beliefs.

Iowanian
11-04-2008, 01:34 PM
I forgive you all for your intollerant, hateful words towards my religion...again.



Catholics don't send a fraction of people to hell as the Baptists and Muslims do.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 01:34 PM
You're soul belongs to Jesus, but that ass belongs to me.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:35 PM
Sad, but true. Most are going to hell anyway per their beliefs.

let me guess. your aunt's friend had premarital sex.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:35 PM
Sad, but true. Most are going to hell anyway per their beliefs.

Those priests know what they are talking about, until they say something their faitful followers don't believe then all the sudden the church doesn't knwo what they are talking about.

Stinger
11-04-2008, 01:36 PM
Hey the people that cruxified Jesus will now tell me how to vote.

Wow that is weird .... my Bible left our where Father Flanagan nailed Christ to the cross? You might want to re-read that book again Sparky.


:spock:

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 01:36 PM
I forgive you all for your intollerant, hateful words towards my religion...again.Are you talking to the priest?

I keed.

eazyb81
11-04-2008, 01:37 PM
It seems like the majority of Catholics are democrats. Is this not the case?

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:37 PM
I forgive you all for your intollerant, hateful words towards my religion...again.



Catholics don't send a fraction of people to hell as the Baptists and Muslims do.

I just don't like how Catholics, and Christians for that matter who are pro-choice can go to church every Sunday and call themselves good follwoers of their religion?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Wow that is weird .... my Bible left our where Father Flanagan nailed Christ to the cross? You might want to re-read that book again Sparky.


:spock:Gee, the Romans we're in charge and they physically nailed him to the cross, but why deal with the facts?

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 01:39 PM
I just don't like how Catholics, and Christians for that matter who are pro-choice can go to church every Sunday and call themselves good follwoers of their religion?Is that a question?

Sully
11-04-2008, 01:40 PM
I just don't like how Catholics, and Christians for that matter who are pro-choice can go to church every Sunday and call themselves good follwoers of their religion?

I'll post this great article...once again...for those inclined to read it. (Thanks, again, to NewPhin).

http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=3166

Ari Chi3fs
11-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Catholics must not realize that if abortions were illegal that women would still get them... albeit in much shader medical environments.

I'm against killing unborn babies via abortion, especially 3rd trimester abortions... but I understand that if its illegal, the situation gets worse, not better.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:40 PM
I just don't like how Catholics, and Christians for that matter who are pro-choice can go to church every Sunday and call themselves good follwoers of their religion?

i have never seen anyone in 27 years claim to be pro choice and have the audacity to command communtion let alone claim to be "good followers of the church" I have never even heard anyone say the phrase "I am a good follower of the church" It's fine if you want to bare that cross though (pun intended)

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:43 PM
i have never seen anyone in 27 years claim to be pro choice and have the audacity to command communtion let alone claim to be "good followers of the church" I have never even heard anyone say the phrase "I am a good follower of the church" It's fine if you want to bare that cross though (pun intended)

All I am saying is if you are pro-choice then don't be a catholic cause catholicsa re not pro-choice. Doesn't mean you don't have to quit believing in God. But what is the point in following something or someone you do not agree with?

Stinger
11-04-2008, 01:44 PM
Gee, the Romans we're in charge and they physically nailed him to the cross, but why deal with the facts?

And Catholicism was the religion of the state at that time???

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:46 PM
All I am saying is if you are pro-choice then don't be a catholic cause catholicsa re not pro-choice. Doesn't mean you don't have to quit believing in God. But what is the point in following something or someone you do not agree with?

Alright well you should have said THAT in the first place. NOT what you said before.

BucEyedPea
11-04-2008, 01:46 PM
It seems like the majority of Catholics are democrats. Is this not the case?

I think so. They tend to be economically liberal and socially conservative.
The whole abortion argument actually doesn't follow party lines cleanly. I read that over 40% of Ds don't favor abortion or some restrictions. It's just the party platforms that take a stand formally.

***SPRAYER
11-04-2008, 01:47 PM
The Bishop violates my intelligence.


It has to actually exist to be violated.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:48 PM
Alright well you should have said THAT in the first place. NOT what you said before.

What's the difference?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 01:50 PM
And Catholicism was the religion of the state at that time???No, only after they realized how big of a mistake they had made and saw how big of a following Jesus had, did they start a NEW religion, based on other PREVIOUS religions. They also have chosen to take SOME of the text out of the bible-such as the dead sea scrolls. If they were on the up and up, why not INCLUDE all of the doctrine?
Make no mistake the ROMAN EMPIRE, cruxified Jesus.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:52 PM
What's the difference?

In the first post you had a random quote that no one uses, and then you elude to the fact that say people outwardly admit they are pro choice. If someone was outwardly pro choice with a pro choice bumper sticker or outwardly pro choice they would not be welcome to take the body of christ.

jidar
11-04-2008, 01:52 PM
OH LAWDY LAWDY LAWDY THEY GOT OBAMA FIGGERED OUT

HEY LOOK WHO'S UP IN THE HIZZZZOUSE

IT'S B-ROCK "THE ISLAMIC SHOCK" HUSSEIN SUPERALLAH OBAMA
PALIN AROUND WITH OSAMA IN HIS SIX FO IMPALA

YEAH YEAH
WHAT WHAT

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:52 PM
No, only after they realized how big of a mistake they had made and saw how big of a following Jesus had, did they start a NEW religion, based on Paganism. They also have chosen to take SOME of the text out of the bible-such as the dead sea scrolls. If they were on the up and up, why not INCLUDE all of the doctrine?
Make no mistake the ROMAN EMPIRE, cruxified Jesus.

fyp...

Iowanian
11-04-2008, 01:52 PM
I can only hope that the liberal tollerance and enlightened thinking in this thread is the kind of Joy and acceptance Dear Leader brings us all.

Stinger
11-04-2008, 01:53 PM
It has to actually exist to be violated.

A diss Repost ... wow

ROFL ROFL

jidar
11-04-2008, 01:53 PM
http://stateandlake.net/ado/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/barack-obama-rapper.jpg

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:54 PM
In the first post you had a random quote that no one uses, and then you elude to the fact that say people outwardly admit they are pro choice. If someone was outwardly pro choice with a pro choice bumper sticker or outwardly pro choice they would not be welcome to take the body of christ.

Oh? What about all the catholics who are pro-choice and take communion every Sunday?

In fact, let's just start with those who take communion without ever going to confession.

There are tons of good old fashioned Democrat Catholics. My inlaws and some of my own family included.

And most, not all but 99% of them are pro-choice. Some even go to church every Sunday too and think themselves the model catholic.

Saulbadguy
11-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Serious question - if you are Catholic, and vote for Obama, can you confess to it in confession, and "come clean" that way?

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:56 PM
Serious question - if you are Catholic, and vote for Obama, can you confess to it in confession, and "come clean" that way?


Say 10 hail mary's and leave a nice donation in the offering and you will be absolved of all sin my son.


ROFL

Iowanian
11-04-2008, 01:57 PM
I know very few Catholics who are pro-choice.


I don't bring those types of things to confession(don't do that very often at all) but basically, if that comes to mind while you're in the room as something to confess, you're supposed to or can.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 01:57 PM
Oh? What about all the catholics who are pro-choice and take communion every Sunday?

In fact, let's just start with those who take communion without ever going to confession.

There are tons of good old fashioned Democrat Catholics. My inlaws and some of my own family included.

And most, not all but 99% of them are pro-choice. Some even go to church every Sunday too and think themselves the model catholic.

again not what you orginally said........ 99% pro-choice? This convo is over.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 01:58 PM
again not what you orginally said........ 99% pro-choice? This convo is over.

the 99% was the family I was referring too. Sheesh calm down man. And that is exactly what I said. Take a pill.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 02:00 PM
Did he have his dick in a little boy when he said this?

:shake:Grow up.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 02:03 PM
the 99% was the family I was referring too. Sheesh calm down man. And that is exactly what I said. Take a pill.There are at least 100 catholic people in that family?

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:05 PM
There are at least 100 catholic people in that family?

Gee is this what you guys resort too every time you misread something then say something stupid cause you didn't read what you think you are replying too?

Or should I just pretend there really are no pro-choice catholics and that all catholics follow catholicsm to the T?

***SPRAYER
11-04-2008, 02:08 PM
No, only after they realized how big of a mistake they had made and saw how big of a following Jesus had, did they start a NEW religion, based on other PREVIOUS religions. They also have chosen to take SOME of the text out of the bible-such as the dead sea scrolls. If they were on the up and up, why not INCLUDE all of the doctrine?
Make no mistake the ROMAN EMPIRE, cruxified Jesus.



I'm not saying this is across the board, but the average liberal/O-Bot/Leftist on this board fits this profile:

Age 18-31
Marital status Single
Secular/Atheist
College educated- went on mom and pops dime
No kids
No military service

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:10 PM
Retarded.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 02:10 PM
Serious question - if you are Catholic, and vote for Obama, can you confess to it in confession, and "come clean" that way?

It's a sticky situation, because the Church only warns against it. It's not a sin per se, but there's a lot too it, much more than I'd want to go into.

Basically, the biggest social issue for the RCC is abortion, OBama is a huge radical pro-choicer, so the bishop says that you really better think about it before you vote for him because he stands for what the RCC considers is murder. If you go into that with full knowledge and understanding, then yeah, you probably are committing a sin. But, no body can go against their own conscience. We are to mold our conscience to God's will, but some of us are further along than others I guess...in other words if you KNOW it is wrong and you do it anyway...that's where your soul is in trouble...but not necessarily damned. That's not up to the Church, that's up to God alone.

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:14 PM
OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL NOT STOP ABORTION

IT WILL ONLY KILL MORE WOMEN WHO GET THEM IN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENTS

SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT OUTLAWING ABORTION AND START TALKING ABOUT SHIT THAT MATTERS

jidar
11-04-2008, 02:14 PM
OBama is a huge radical pro-choicer, .

Well that's not really true. One of the arguments that Clinton used against Obama in the primaries was that he wasn't strong enough pro choice. Obama is in favor of states determining the legality of abortion, which is the situation we have now.

nychief
11-04-2008, 02:14 PM
I'm not saying this is across the board, but the average liberal/O-Bot/Leftist on this board fits this profile:

Age 18-31
Marital status Single
Secular/Atheist
College educated- went on mom and pops dime
No kids
No military service


I'm not saying this is you across the board...
but,
using your logic we can assume you are a middle-aged veteran with little to no education, who married the first fat piece of ass who jumped into bed with him... now you fitters away his time with online porn and message boards, between church, beating your children and working manually so as to make enough money to feed his plus sized woman?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:16 PM
I'm not saying this is across the board, but the average liberal/O-Bot/Leftist on this board fits this profile:

Age 18-31
Marital status Single
Secular/Atheist
College educated- went on mom and pops dime
No kids
No military serviceLet's just say I don't fit the profile and I'm not a leftist. I'm a moderate.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 02:17 PM
Gee is this what you guys resort too every time you misread something then say something stupid cause you didn't read what you think you are replying too?

Or should I just pretend there really are no pro-choice catholics and that all catholics follow catholicsm to the T?You said 99% of the people in a particular family are pro-choice. Do you understand what 99% implies?

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:17 PM
You said 99% of the people in a particular family are pro-choice. Do you understand what 99% implies?

No moron, I said 99% of the Dems in MY family.

Do you fuckers read?

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:18 PM
OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL NOT STOP ABORTION

IT WILL ONLY KILL MORE WOMEN WHO GET THEM IN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENTS

SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT OUTLAWING ABORTION AND START TALKING ABOUT SHIT THAT MATTERS

While I am aware that outlawing abortion will not stop abortion entirely, I don't think it is right that the government legalized the "choice" to murder.

I mean I have the choice to Murder whomever I want whenever I want, that does not mean the government should legalize that choice.

I mean using the pro-abort's line of thinking, if I wanted to murder anyone, why shouldn't I be able to do it in a safe clean environment if thats my choice?...

The fact of the matter is that Abortion stops a beating heart, if your ok with stoping the heartbeat of another, thats your choice, but the Government should not say that it is "OK" or Legal or even a "Right"

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:18 PM
OUTLAWING ABORTION WILL NOT STOP ABORTION

IT WILL ONLY KILL MORE WOMEN WHO GET THEM IN UNSAFE ENVIRONMENTS

SO SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT OUTLAWING ABORTION AND START TALKING ABOUT SHIT THAT MATTERS


Well, maybe they deserve to get what they age doing to their baby?

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:21 PM
Well, maybe they deserve to get what they age doing to their baby?

But wait, I thought every life was precious?

Fucking hypocrite.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 02:22 PM
No moron, I said 99% of the Dems in MY family.

Do you ****ers read?ROFL

Yes, I get that. 99% implies that you are referring to a sample of at least 100. Ergo, you must have at least 100 "Dems" in YOUR family from which you are drawing your sample. Do you ****ers understand mathematics?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:23 PM
While I am aware that outlawing abortion will not stop abortion entirely, I don't think it is right that the government legalized the "choice" to murder.

I mean I have the choice to Murder whomever I want whenever I want, that does not mean the government should legalize that choice.

I mean using the pro-abort's line of thinking, if I wanted to murder anyone, why shouldn't I be able to do it in a safe clean environment if thats my choice?...

The fact of the matter is that Abortion stops a beating heart, if your ok with stoping the heartbeat of another, thats your choice, but the Government should not say that it is "OK" or Legal or even a "Right"Dear Johnny, beat another drum.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:24 PM
ROFL

Yes, I get that. 99% implies that you are referring to a sample of at least 100. Ergo, you must have at least 100 "Dems" in YOUR family from which you are drawing your sample. Do you ****ers understand mathematics?

Probaly have more since we have a very large family.

Do you understand not to assume you know how big or small someone's family is?

You don't get shit, obviously.

Or does it just piss you off to know for a fact that there are pro-choice, democratic, catholics in the world?

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:24 PM
I love Bishop Finn I pray for him constantly and feel privileged to have met him on numerous occasions.

we need more bishops like him

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:24 PM
But wait, I thought every life was precious?

****ing hypocrite.

Yeah but taking your own life is not murder. Dumbass.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 02:25 PM
Probaly have more since we have a very large family.

Do you understand not to assume you know how big or small someone's family is?

You don't get shit, obviously.

Or does it just piss you off to know for a fact that there are pro-choice, democratic, catholics in the world?The only assumption I could make was from the data you provided. You obviously have no understanding of what 99% means. I get that, now.

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:26 PM
The only assumption I could make was from the data you provided. You obviously have no understanding of what 99% means. I get that, now.

Just FYI you can have 99% of a number less than 100....

Mecca
11-04-2008, 02:28 PM
You guys do understand abortion will never be made illegal right? For one it's the rights golden carrot to dangle, and even if it was states would make it legal, numerous already have...

And the term "pro abortion" is overplayed it's a buzzword no one is really pro abortion.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:28 PM
Be judged and judge others all in the name of God.

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:29 PM
Yeah but taking your own life is not murder. Dumbass.

So two lives ending is better than one life ending, as long as your political ends have been met.

Gotcha.

Look, I'm not a fan of abortion. I would never get one. I don't want people to get them. But it's not my decision to stop somebody else from getting one. And guess what: people are going to get them, one way or another.

Outlawing abortion would do more harm than good.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:29 PM
Just FYI you can have 99% of a number less than 100....
Oh yea? Sounds more like he backed himself in a corner.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:29 PM
The only assumption I could make was from the data you provided. You obviously have no understanding of what 99% means. I get that, now.

So you are saying you know for a fact there are less than 100 people in my family?

Mecca
11-04-2008, 02:31 PM
You also might make a little more headway on this issue if you weren't so hardcore about it saying things like "cases of rape and incest don't matter, health of the mother doesn't matter"

When you get to that extreme in your pro life stance is when people think you're crossing a line with it.

Pitt Gorilla
11-04-2008, 02:31 PM
Just FYI you can have 99% of a number less than 100....You're correct. I was trying to get him to explain his understanding. Certainly, I'd give him from 64 pro-choice Dems out of 65 (and on up, although I'd prefer greater accuracy), but I thought that just might make things even more confusing. It turns out that the argument wasn't going anywhere anyway. I get that now.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:32 PM
You also might make a little more headway on this issue if you weren't so hardcore about it saying things like "cases of rape and incest don't matter, health of the mother doesn't matter"

When you get to that extreme in your pro life stance is when people think you're crossing a line with it.

granted those are less than 2% of all abortion cases and most fairminded people support that.

Some here have to take evertyhing as litealy as possible. Even figures of speech.

But hey, I guess we need anal people in the world to remind people like me what not to act like.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:34 PM
You're correct. I was trying to get him to explain his understanding. Certainly, I'd give him from 64 pro-choice Dems out of 65 (and on up, although I'd prefer greater accuracy), but I thought that just might make things even more confusing. It turns out that the argument wasn't going anywhere anyway. I get that now.

My understanding of what? That you are a some fortune teller that can tell me how many people are in my family? Or that you are anal and take things like a figure of speech and play it out to the literal extreme?

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:36 PM
You also might make a little more headway on this issue if you weren't so hardcore about it saying things like "cases of rape and incest don't matter, health of the mother doesn't matter"

When you get to that extreme in your pro life stance is when people think you're crossing a line with it.

While I understand that change in Americas abortion policy will take many baby steps - that I will happily accept - my Goal is to end all abortions in all cases

Just an anecdotal story about a Catholic Nun who was raped and became pregnant check it out if you have the time:

http://tinyurl.com/6yyzyv

Mecca
11-04-2008, 02:38 PM
granted those are less than 2% of all abortion cases and most fairminded people support that.

Some here have to take evertyhing as litealy as possible. Even figures of speech.

But hey, I guess we need anal people in the world to remind people like me what not to act like.

Great if it's only 2% how hard is it to just let that go and say those cases are different?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:39 PM
While I understand that change in Americas abortion policy will take many baby steps - that I will happily accept - my Goal is to end all abortions in all cases

Just an anecdotal story about a Catholic Nun who was raped and became pregnant check it out if you have the time:

http://tinyurl.com/6yyzyvMaybe the Catholic church should worry about raping boys and get their own house in order before telling others the merits of living right. Glass houses.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:43 PM
Maybe the Catholic church should worry about raping boys and get their own house in order before telling others the merits of living right. Glass houses.

I'm going to have to agree with this here. Dare I say practice what you preach?

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:45 PM
Great if it's only 2% how hard is it to just let that go and say those cases are different?


It wouldn't be but you have those like Hillary and such who support late term abortions. I think we can deem that outside the remote chance that the mother is threatened all of the sudden at the end that late term abortions are not covered under the rape\incest\molestation\health risk to mom umbrella.

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:45 PM
While I understand that change in Americas abortion policy will take many baby steps - that I will happily accept - my Goal is to end all abortions in all cases


Won't happen. Especially not through legal means.

The best thing to do is to provide proper sex education (NOT abstinence-only, which is an utter failure). Less unplanned pregnancies = less abortions.

And abortion should be 100% legal in cases where the life of the mother is threatened by carrying the baby to term.

But whatever. Keep wasting your time and effort on something will never, ever happen.

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:45 PM
Maybe the Catholic church should worry about raping boys and get their own house in order before telling others the merits of living right. Glass houses.

it is because of statements like this that help perpetuate hate, it is these statements that indicate and confirm that anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable form of hate speech.


It is also well known that the Catholic church is not the only organization that has had to deal with pedophiles, it is disgusting and the church is cleaning house, I only hope public schools, and other groups will get rid of their pedophiles/sexual predators as well...


to all others:

those that did not read the story of the Raped pregnant Nun, here is just the last quote from her letter


Someone has to begin to break the chain of hatred that has always destroyed our countries. And so, I will teach my child only one thing: love. This child, born of violence, will be a witness along with me that the only greatness that gives honor to a human being is forgiveness.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 02:49 PM
Won't happen. Especially not through legal means.

The best thing to do is to provide proper sex education (NOT abstinence-only, which is an utter failure). Less unplanned pregnancies = less abortions.

And abortion should be 100% legal in cases where the life of the mother is threatened by carrying the baby to term.

But whatever. Keep wasting your time and effort on something will never, ever happen.

so why do a lot of Dems still want late term abortions, including Hillary?

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Won't happen. Especially not through legal means.

The best thing to do is to provide proper sex education (NOT abstinence-only, which is an utter failure). Less unplanned pregnancies = less abortions.

And abortion should be 100% legal in cases where the life of the mother is threatened by carrying the baby to term.

But whatever. Keep wasting your time and effort on something will never, ever happen.


I disagree 100%..

Abstinence only is the only form of sex education that works 100% of the time when actively used. Less Sex period will equal less abortions.

Abortion should never be legal ever... with todays technology the scenario of the life of the mother being threatened by the pregnancy and requiring an abortion is non- existent

Lastly -
Since I am a man of Faith, I will keep praying and working to end all Abortion because with God all things are possible

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:52 PM
That's not hate speech. It's a FACT. Just because you don't care for the comment, doesn't make it such. You, YOURSELF, even ADMITTED that it has been a PROBLEM WITHIN the Catholic church, thus meaning you AGREE with me.

Saulbadguy
11-04-2008, 02:54 PM
I disagree 100%..

Abstinence only is the only form of sex education that works 100% of the time when actively used. Less Sex period will equal less abortions.

Abortion should never be legal ever... with todays technology the scenario of the life of the mother being threatened by the pregnancy and requiring an abortion is non- existent

Lastly -
Since I am a man of Faith, I will keep praying and working to end all Abortion because with God all things are possible

Not true - Anal Sex works %100 of the time as well when preventing pregnancy. So does oral. So do fingerbanging and handjobs.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:54 PM
I disagree 100%..

Abstinence only is the only form of sex education that works 100% of the time when actively used. Less Sex period will equal less abortions.

Abortion should never be legal ever... with todays technology the scenario of the life of the mother being threatened by the pregnancy and requiring an abortion is non- existent

Lastly -
Since I am a man of Faith, I will keep praying and working to end all Abortion because with God all things are possibleYes, we all now teenagers refrain from sex, because we told them to. Evidenced by Mrs. Palin's UNWED daughter.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 02:55 PM
Not true - Anal Sex works %100 of the time as well when preventing pregnancy. So does oral. So do fingerbanging and handjobs.

i dunno man stuff leaks out during anal

Jenson71
11-04-2008, 02:55 PM
Without getting into the controversy, I just want to point out that Bishop Finn is not "Catholic Church" and that this thread title is not factual.

It reminds me of a year or two when everyone got excited because "Catholic Church: Says Pollution A New Deadly Sin (Plus 6 More New Ones!)"

All you are doing is laying out your ignorance for the rest of us to see.

SLAG
11-04-2008, 02:55 PM
That's not hate speech. It's a FACT. Just because you don't care for the comment, doesn't make it such. You, YOURSELF, even ADMITTED that it has been a PROBLEM WITHIN the Catholic church, thus meaning you AGREE with me.

It is hate speech when you try to paint the picture that the entire Catholic Church is all about pedophilia, this is simply not true.
The fact is that there are individuals whom intentionally sought out the Catholic priesthood to have easy access to children, these same individuals even after being defroked have been known to go to daycare and other places where they have access to children. This is NOT a catholic church only issue.

I admit that the problem is with the Individuals and their actions, not with the church itself. this is something you can not seem to grasp

Thig Lyfe
11-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Abstinence only is the only form of sex education that works 100% of the time when actively used. Less Sex period will equal less abortions.


FALSE. SO FUCKING FALSE.

Abstinence-only education DOES. NOT. WORK.

YOU WILL NOT PREVENT TEENS FROM HAVING SEX. EVER.

What you can do is TELL THEM HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.


Lastly -
Since I am a man of Faith, I will keep praying and working to end all Abortion because with God all things are possible

The only thing God has done is destroy your ability to reason.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:57 PM
It is hate speech when you try to paint the picture that the entire Catholic Church is all about pedophilia, this is simply not true.
The fact is that there are individuals whom intentionally sought out the Catholic priesthood to have easy access to children, these same individuals even after being defroked have been known to go to daycare and other places where they have access to children. This is NOT a catholic church only issue.

I admit that the problem is with the Individuals and their actions, not with the church itself. this is something you can not seem to graspThe pastors are the FACE of the organization and this was WIDE-SPREAD. Not real hard to draw the conclusion that many LEADERS WITHIN the church are sickos. Hence, not caring about their views on politics.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 02:58 PM
It is hate speech when you try to paint the picture that the entire Catholic Church is all about pedophilia, this is simply not true.
The fact is that there are individuals whom intentionally sought out the Catholic priesthood to have easy access to children, these same individuals even after being defroked have been known to go to daycare and other places where they have access to children. This is NOT a catholic church only issue.

I admit that the problem is with the Individuals and their actions, not with the church itself. this is something you can not seem to grasp

I don't know any other other business or sector in the world that has tried to move the priest or pay off the victims.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 02:58 PM
Abstinence works, just ask Palin's daughter.

StcChief
11-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Abstinence works, just ask Palin's daughter. is she Catholic? she obviously didn't practice any birth control method Successfully.... but maybe they wanted a child. At least it wasn't aborted.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:04 PM
is she Catholic? she obviously didn't practice any birth control method Successfully.... but maybe they wanted a child. At least it wasn't aborted.Does it matter if she's Catholic or not? The bigger issue is that Palin BELIEVES in abstinence ONLY and her daughter being pregnant obviously shows it DOESN'T work, but nevermind the facts.

tomahawk kid
11-04-2008, 03:05 PM
I know very few Catholics who are pro-choice.


I don't bring those types of things to confession(don't do that very often at all) but basically, if that comes to mind while you're in the room as something to confess, you're supposed to or can.

I'm personally pro-life (Catholic too), but I don't think abortion should be outlawed.

I have a strong belief that life begins at conception, but I also recognize that I live in a democracy where fellow citizens don't share that view or perhaps not a belief in God whatsoever.

Is it "democratic" to impose my beliefs upon them? I don't think so.

Count Alex's Losses
11-04-2008, 03:08 PM
God, Catholics are so fucked up.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm personally pro-life, but I don't think abortion should be outlawed.

I have a strong belief that life begins at conception, but I also recognize that I live in a democracy where fellow citizens don't share that view or perhaps not a belief in God whatsoever.

Is it "democratic" to impose my beliefs upon them? I don't think so.

Good post.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm personally pro-life (Catholic too), but I don't think abortion should be outlawed.

I have a strong belief that life begins at conception, but I also recognize that I live in a democracy where fellow citizens don't share that view or perhaps not a belief in God whatsoever.

Is it "democratic" to impose my beliefs upon them? I don't think so.

*sigh*. At some point, you have to decide. If you believe that the baby is alive (as you have stated) then you believe that you are watching the murder of thousands of babies a year...but you don't want to tell anyone what to believe...no offense, that means that you don't believe it either...otherwise how could you condone the killing of innocent children because someone doesn't believe it's "alive"?

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Abstinence works, just ask Palin's daughter.

Your and idiot. Obviously, she didn't practice abstinence...:spock:

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Gee, what do you think a woman's period is doing EVERY MONTH?

Brock
11-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Gee, what do you think a woman's period is doing EVERY MONTH?

What do you think it's doing? I have a feeling your answer will be entertaining.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Gee, what do you think a woman's period is doing EVERY MONTH?

ummm...what the hell does that have to do with abstinence?

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:21 PM
Your and idiot. Obviously, she didn't practice abstinence...:spock:
Hello, HER MOM, PREACHES that it WORKS and it obviously doesn't. What part of that don't you get?

Yea, I'm sure all those horny teens will keep it in their pants because mom said so.

In a perfect world abstinence works, unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and anybody that thinks this works is fooling themselves.

luv
11-04-2008, 03:23 PM
What's Mary going to do? She isn't part of the Trinity.

Demonpenz
11-04-2008, 03:24 PM
hell abstinance didn't even work for Mary

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:24 PM
What do you think it's doing? I have a feeling your answer will be entertaining.Baking biscuits??:D

tomahawk kid
11-04-2008, 03:25 PM
*sigh*. At some point, you have to decide. If you believe that the baby is alive (as you have stated) then you believe that you are watching the murder of thousands of babies a year...but you don't want to tell anyone what to believe...no offense, that means that you don't believe it either...otherwise how could you condone the killing of innocent children because someone doesn't believe it's "alive"?

Because I believe that act is between them and the Almightly.

They'll have to answer for it someday as I believe we'll all have to answer for our sins.

I also live in a country that allows others to have a differing views from mine. Me trying to force my view of said act on them just seems to be against the spirit our country was founded on.

Not actively trying to impose my will or view upon a fellow citizen of a democratic society is NOT the same thing as condoning the act itself.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:36 PM
Hello, HER MOM, PREACHES that it WORKS and it obviously doesn't. What part of that don't you get?

Yea, I'm sure all those horny teens will keep it in their pants because mom said so.

In a perfect world abstinence works, unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and anybody that thinks this works is fooling themselves.

DUde, let me type this slowly so you can understand...

...her mom preaches abstinence. Abstinence means not having sex. IF she had practiced abstinence (you know, NOT having sex) she would have avoided pregnancy.

You are saying that teenagers will have sex no matter what (and you could be right) but that's not an argument against weather abstinence works...it's an argument about weather abstinence EDUCATION works...

Abstinence WORKS...it has no other choice. Get it now???

Jilly
11-04-2008, 03:38 PM
FALSE. SO ****ING FALSE.

Abstinence-only education DOES. NOT. WORK.

YOU WILL NOT PREVENT TEENS FROM HAVING SEX. EVER.

What you can do is TELL THEM HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.



The only thing God has done is destroy your ability to reason.

Which is why I appreciate my denomination. We're getting ready to start a camp in this region just for this purpose because the church has been far too silent and ignorant about the importance of sex ed. It's a recognition that while sex is best when in a loving committed relationship, it isn't always going to occur that way. So the church is taking a stand to tell teens exactly what responsibility comes with it, including the respect one should have for his or her own body and what God desires from it. The curriculum even includes in depth conversation and education about contraception. I'm extremely proud of our church for being so progressive about it.

As for this conversation, my problem here is that a bishop feels he knows God so whole heartedly that he knows that God would send a person to hell for voting the wrong way. It's even more disturbing the lack of grace being shown in his words. When God is so filled with grace, why aren't the leaders who represent God more filled with grace?

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:39 PM
Because I believe that act is between them and the Almightly.

They'll have to answer for it someday as I believe we'll all have to answer for our sins.

I also live in a country that allows others to have a differing views from mine. Me trying to force my view of said act on them just seems to be against the spirit our country was founded on.

Not actively trying to impose my will or view upon a fellow citizen of a democratic society is NOT the same thing as condoning the act itself.

I hear ya, but dude, I think you need to follow the argument to it's logical conclusion. Say I decide that I believe that a baby born with Downs Syndrome can be killed in the first year of it's life...because I don't believe it will have a real life...am I wrong? You're not going to impose your beliefs on me and say I can't kill the child?

...and again, if you believe the child is alive, then you are advocating murder because you don't want to push your beliefs on someone else...

Jilly
11-04-2008, 03:41 PM
I'll post this great article...once again...for those inclined to read it. (Thanks, again, to NewPhin).

http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=3166

Great article, thanks

J Diddy
11-04-2008, 03:42 PM
DUde, let me type this slowly so you can understand...

...her mom preaches abstinence. Abstinence means not having sex. IF she had practiced abstinence (you know, NOT having sex) she would have avoided pregnancy.

You are saying that teenagers will have sex no matter what (and you could be right) but that's not an argument against weather abstinence works...it's an argument about weather abstinence EDUCATION works...

Abstinence WORKS...it has no other choice. Get it now???

Abstinence worked great for Mary and Joseph

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:43 PM
DUde, let me type this slowly so you can understand...

...her mom preaches abstinence. Abstinence means not having sex. IF she had practiced abstinence (you know, NOT having sex) she would have avoided pregnancy.

You are saying that teenagers will have sex no matter what (and you could be right) but that's not an argument against weather abstinence works...it's an argument about weather abstinence EDUCATION works...

Abstinence WORKS...it has no other choice. Get it now???How did that FOLLOWING of abstinence work for Sarah's daughter? It's not like she didn't hear it everyday.


Again, yes abstinence sounds good on PAPER, but when you start thinking in practical terms, you would see, it doesn't work because people aren't perfect.

eazyb81
11-04-2008, 03:44 PM
Let's just say I don't fit the profile and I'm not a leftist. I'm a moderate.

LOL at you describing yourself as moderate. From my time on here, you seem like one of the most far left posters on here.

What issues are you not extremely to the left on?

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:44 PM
As for this conversation, my problem here is that a bishop feels he knows God so whole heartedly that he knows that God would send a person to hell for voting the wrong way. It's even more disturbing the lack of grace being shown in his words. When God is so filled with grace, why aren't the leaders who represent God more filled with grace?

I don't know where to start here, other than to say that is NOT what the bishop said. He warns that murder and advocation of it is tied to your salvation, so you better think about what you are doing. Nobody in the Church can say a person is going to hell, but they can certainly judge that a person's actions are perhaps not helping them to avoid hell.

To answer your last question...it's because sometimes humans suck. We always have.

tomahawk kid
11-04-2008, 03:46 PM
I hear ya, but dude, I think you need to follow the argument to it's logical conclusion. Say I decide that I believe that a baby born with Downs Syndrome can be killed in the first year of it's life...because I don't believe it will have a real life...am I wrong? You're not going to impose your beliefs on me and say I can't kill the child?

...and again, if you believe the child is alive, then you are advocating murder because you don't want to push your beliefs on someone else...

Would my words stop you anyway?

Brock
11-04-2008, 03:46 PM
I don't know where to start here, other than to say that is NOT what the bishop said. He warns that murder and advocation of it is tied to your salvation, so you better think about what you are doing. Nobody in the Church can say a person is going to hell, but they can certainly judge that a person's actions are perhaps not helping them to avoid hell.

To answer your last question...it's because sometimes humans suck. We always have.

The bishop probably needs to grasp the obvious: That voting for Obama or McCain will not result in 1 less abortion.

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Abstinence worked great for Mary and Joseph

Obviously a one and only special case...but hardy har har anyway...:rolleyes:

InChiefsHell
11-04-2008, 03:50 PM
Would my words stop you anyway?

So, since you don't think you could change someone's mind, you don't bother with the argument or standing up for what you believe...

...I guess it's ultimately OK in your mind to kill babies because you can't bring yourself to "impose" your beliefs on others...

...I'm not trying to be an antagonistic prick, I guess I just don't understand that logic.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 03:51 PM
LOL at you describing yourself as moderate. From my time on here, you seem like one of the most far left posters on here.

What issues are you not extremely to the left on?It only seems far left, because the country went so far right, that moving back to the middle seems extreme.

Jilly
11-04-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't know where to start here, other than to say that is NOT what the bishop said. He warns that murder and advocation of it is tied to your salvation, so you better think about what you are doing. Nobody in the Church can say a person is going to hell, but they can certainly judge that a person's actions are perhaps not helping them to avoid hell.

To answer your last question...it's because sometimes humans suck. We always have.

A lot of pro lifers voted for Bush, correct? For this reason? He was in office for 8 years and did not accomplish overturning Roe V Wade. Does that make the eternal salvation of each of them in danger or do they get a free pass because their intentions were good? We cannot control the actions of others, we can only hope that they will do what is right and act in the interest of the common good...and I'm wondering if this bishop is so sure that the pro choice candidate is the one who puts the Catholic Church member in danger of eternal damnation, how can he not equally be sure about all of the other issues that Catholicism has taken a stand on? Why is the death penalty not as important as abortion, or war? Both these things take lives. As does violence that involves guns, etc.

And when Christ alluded to poverty more than any other topic and never said a word about abortion...how is that not more important and the candidate whose platform advocates for the poor not more important than the one who is pro life? I would think that if one disregards the least of these and the call to feed the sheep would be more in danger of eternal damnation since it was so high on Jesus' priority list.

petegz28
11-04-2008, 04:02 PM
It only seems far left, because the country went so far right, that moving back to the middle seems extreme.

So far right? How? Allowing milliosn of illegal immigrants to spam on our benefits, spending money out the ass on No Child LEft Behind and the Prescription Drugs is extremem Right>

triple
11-04-2008, 04:02 PM
see they're not all bad.

BigChiefFan
11-04-2008, 04:07 PM
So far right? How? Allowing milliosn of illegal immigrants to spam on our benefits, spending money out the ass on No Child LEft Behind and the Prescription Drugs is extremem Right>No Child left behind is W. Bush's and people hate it-nice try, but that shitty policy belongs to the Repugnants.

I'm against illegal immigration.

Prescription drugs are BIG Business, you know, the SAME companies, that McCain wants to give a TAX BREAK to.

Try again.

tomahawk kid
11-04-2008, 04:07 PM
So, since you don't think you could change someone's mind, you don't bother with the argument or standing up for what you believe...

...I guess it's ultimately OK in your mind to kill babies because you can't bring yourself to "impose" your beliefs on others...

...I'm not trying to be an antagonistic prick, I guess I just don't understand that logic.

Couple things here:

1. You didn't answer my question.
2. I NEVER said it was okay to kill a baby. In fact, I clarified that I was personally against it.
3. You are being antagonitic.

My point and or logic here - is that I'm able to hold religious beliefs and seperate those within the landscape of our democratic society.

That is, not ALL people believe that life begins at conception (therefore making the fetus alive or a baby in the first or second tri-mester) or even believe in God. If that's the case, they may or may not believe there's some great moral violation in the act even though I do. But that's what's great about America - they don't have to.

I would rather leave that act up to their judgement day with God than constantly try to impose my beliefs on people who probably don't care what I think or believe in the first place.

I'm going to leave this alone now. But I think so other folks on here understand where I'm coming from even if you don't.........