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Pestilence
11-10-2008, 03:06 PM
November 6th 2008.

1st round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
If you're not a Chiefs fan, chances are you won't know this. OK, guess how many sacks Kansas City's defense has as a whole this season.

Fifteen? Way off. Ten? Nope. Five? Not even!

The Chiefs have four sacks on the year! Four freaking sacks! They foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level.

That man can be Brian Orakpo. Through nine games, Orakpo has 13.5 tackles for loss and 8.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback.

Quarterback was an option, but Tyler Thigpen has played extremely well the past two weeks, so the Chiefs could have something with him.


2nd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well.


3rd round - Kansas City Chiefs: Derrick Williams, WR, Penn State
If Tyler Thigpen keeps improving and proves to be Kansas City's quarterback of the future, he'll need another receiver to throw to besides Dwayne Bowe. Bowe and Derrick Williams would be an awesome receiver combination, assuming the latter pans out.

Pestilence
11-10-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm happy with the first two rounds....but I think I'd change the 3rd round pick to Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma.

PhillyChiefFan
11-10-2008, 09:42 PM
I'm happy with the first two rounds....but I think I'd change the 3rd round pick to Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma.

Like that pick too.

But I think that Williams could be a receiver like DeSean Jackson in Philadelphia. A quick strike to him and he is gone. Also a great punt returner.

Buehler445
11-11-2008, 06:57 PM
Like that pick too.

But I think that Williams could be a receiver like DeSean Jackson in Philadelphia. A quick strike to him and he is gone. Also a great punt returner.

Herm no likey the little guys.

ChiefsCountry
11-11-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm happy with the first two rounds....but I think I'd change the 3rd round pick to Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma.

He will struggle in the NFL. Too slow.

blackhawk
11-11-2008, 07:26 PM
Brian Orakpo=vernon gholston!

googlegoogle
11-11-2008, 08:19 PM
terrible. Orakpo has flaws.

milkman
11-12-2008, 02:24 PM
He will struggle in the NFL. Too slow.

What he said.

I'd take Craig Urbik in the third and Fenoki Tupou in the fourth.

Pestilence
11-13-2008, 06:46 PM
There is an updated mock draft up as of today. Nothing has changed for us. The only noticeable change is that the Raiders are taking Taylor Mays at 5.

talastan
11-18-2008, 09:57 AM
Orakpo if Stafford isn't there. The footage I've seen of this kid makes me think of ol' Neil Smith on the end. I'd love to get that kind of pressure on the opposing QB again. With our interceptions that we've already gotten without a pass rush just imagine our turnover ratio with one!! PBJ

Mecca
11-20-2008, 02:11 AM
That's an extremely favorable mock just be aware...

ChiefsCountry
11-20-2008, 11:06 AM
That's an extremely favorable mock just be aware...

Very - thats best case scenario if we cant get a quarterback.

Pestilence
11-20-2008, 02:57 PM
New one up as of today.

1st - Brian Orakpo
2nd - Brandon Spikes
3rd - Derrick Williams

Nothing has changed.

googlegoogle
11-28-2008, 08:34 PM
nfldraftdog.com/2009_NFL_Draft/brian_orakpo.htm

Read the link Orakpo fans. Sounds like Tamba Hali. :doh!:

No burst or quickness?:shake: Athleticism? NO WAY. M.Johnson is a freak and has SPEED.

NO TO ORAKPO

OnTheWarpath58
11-29-2008, 01:27 PM
New 3 round...

R1: Orakpo, DE, Texas

R2: Alex Mack, C, California

R3: Dannell Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia

milkman
11-29-2008, 01:55 PM
New 3 round...

R1: Orakpo, DE, Texas

R2: Alex Mack, C, California

R3: Dannell Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia

Link?

googlegoogle
11-29-2008, 04:05 PM
God i hope not.

Gtech D-end has more upside.

Watching Orakpo showed me no burst & speed.

Reminded me of Tamba.

I can see herm and Kuh going for Oreck because of his stats and his big biceps.

We are failing at the draft. 2 busts at dend. Both high picks. Both were slow. How does that make you feel confident?

blackhawk
11-29-2008, 07:23 PM
R1/Michael Oher/Andre Smith
R2/Brandon Spikes/Brian Cushing/tim tebow

aturnis
11-29-2008, 07:53 PM
R1/Michael Oher/Andre Smith
R2/Brandon Spikes/Brian Cushing/tim tebow

We already have a LT.

blackhawk
11-30-2008, 09:05 AM
1 Willie Roaf
2Will Shields

blackhawk
11-30-2008, 09:13 AM
3 Brian Waters
4 Casey Wiegmann
5 John Welbourn
6 Larry Alphonso Johnson Jr.
Year Age Tm Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm
2006*+ 27 KAN RB 16 16 416 1789 17 47 4.3 111.8 26.0 41 410 10.0 2 78 2.6 25.6 2199 19 2
pick up de and lb free agent!

OnTheWarpath58
11-30-2008, 11:22 AM
Link?

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

milkman
11-30-2008, 11:47 AM
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Now that I see it, I can't argue too much with it.

I have to say, I've been talking about Fenuki Topou as a possible 4th round pick for the Chiefs, and this is the first time I remember seeing his name mentioned in any of these mock drafts, going to the Ravens in the latter half of the third.

Pestilence
12-04-2008, 10:36 AM
New 3 round...

R1: Orakpo, DE, Texas

R2: Alex Mack, C, California

R3: Dannell Ellerbe, ILB, Georgia

Updated as of December 4th.....and it's still the same for the Chiefs.

googlegoogle
12-08-2008, 10:25 PM
I was undecided on Orakpo. His combine will really set him apart.

The combine will end the discussion. Pretty sure Orakpo will blow everyone away.

Ebolapox
12-10-2008, 02:24 AM
I was undecided on Orakpo. His combine will really set him apart.

The combine will end the discussion. Pretty sure Orakpo will blow everyone away.

yay! workout warriors!

don't get me wrong. orapko wouldn't bug me. it wouldn't hurt my feelings if we pick him. but I don't want to pick him ONLY because his workout numbers blow everybody away. fuck, I don't want a mike mamula on our team.

Pestilence
12-11-2008, 10:56 AM
Updated as of December 11th:

1st. Brian Orakpo
2nd. Alex Mack
3rd. Darry Beckwith, ILB, LSU

Sfeihc
12-11-2008, 06:57 PM
I really like his first two picks for KC. I'd like Freeman (LB) from Ohio St. if he's there in the 3rd.

Pestilence
12-18-2008, 11:05 AM
Nothing has changed.

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
There's a parade scheduled in Kansas City! No, the Chiefs haven't won the Super Bowl. Get real. The public is celebrating the fact that their team finally registered a sack in more than a month. And not just one sack - three sacks in one game!

The Chiefs foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level.

That man can be Brian Orakpo. In 11 games, Orakpo had 15.5 tackles for loss and 10.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback.

Offensive line is the only other option now that Tyler Thigpen has emerged as a promising quarterback. As Tony Gonzalez said, "It would be a disgrace if [Thigpen's] not the starting quarterback next year."

By the way, I saw that one of ESPN's draft guys had Aaron Maybin, a defensive end from Penn State, going in this slot. That's great, except Maybin already told the media and coaching staff he's coming back for his redshirt junior year. Maybin could ultimately declare, and if he does, he'll go top five. For now, he won't be in my mock.



34. Kansas City Chiefs: Alex Mack, C, California
More than half of Kansas City's roster needs to be upgraded. You can include the center position, currently occupied by Rudy Niswanger.



67. Kansas City Chiefs: Darry Beckwith, ILB, LSU
Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well.

Derrick Johnson recently moved to inside linebacker. I don't think that's going to end well. This position needs to be addressed.

talastan
12-18-2008, 04:51 PM
67. Kansas City Chiefs: Darry Beckwith, ILB, LSU
Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well.

Derrick Johnson recently moved to inside linebacker. I don't think that's going to end well. This position needs to be addressed.

Don't think I would necessiarly like this pick. Kinda small for a ILB according to his LSU profile webpage. 6-1 232 IIRC. Haven't really seen him play though so who knows for sure.

Spicy McHaggis
12-19-2008, 12:30 AM
I'd like to see KC take a look at Kraig Urbik OG/RT in the middle rounds. I've gotten to see him play for a couple of seasons and the guy is a big reason Wisconsin was able to have any sort of offensive success despite lacking some talent at the skill positions.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 11:08 AM
I like the first two picks of that mock Warpath-I seriously considered Mack as the Chiefs 2nd round pick, as well. I think Orako is going to be damn good, too. We need to upgrade both positions, but we also get good value out of both picks. We can do better than Ellerbe, though.

aturnis
12-19-2008, 05:50 PM
I personally wonder if the 2nd is too high for a center. It's commonly thought to be the easiest spot to play on the O-line. What about right tackle or right guard?

EyePod
12-19-2008, 08:37 PM
nfldraftdog.com/2009_NFL_Draft/brian_orakpo.htm

Read the link Orakpo fans. Sounds like Tamba Hali. :doh!:

No burst or quickness?:shake: Athleticism? NO WAY. M.Johnson is a freak and has SPEED.

NO TO ORAKPO

Yeah, I really like Johnson.

milkman
12-20-2008, 05:47 PM
I'd like to see KC take a look at Kraig Urbik OG/RT in the middle rounds. I've gotten to see him play for a couple of seasons and the guy is a big reason Wisconsin was able to have any sort of offensive success despite lacking some talent at the skill positions.

I'm a big fan of Urbik also.

If one of the top LBs somehow fell to the 2nd round and we got Urbik in the third and Fenuki Tupou out of Oregon in the 4th, I'd feel pretty good about this draft.

aturnis
12-21-2008, 01:56 AM
I'm a big fan of Urbik also.

If one of the top LBs somehow fell to the 2nd round and we got Urbik in the third and Fenuki Tupou out of Oregon in the 4th, I'd feel pretty good about this draft.

Some think Urbik may fall to the 4th. What do you think?

milkman
12-21-2008, 08:39 AM
Some think Urbik may fall to the 4th. What do you think?

It's really hard to say, especially this early, but I don't see him getting out of the third round at this point.

Ultra Peanut
12-27-2008, 09:36 PM
Orakpo + Mack would be an automagical sexy time.

bowener
12-28-2008, 03:47 AM
What is the early verdict on Dorsey's old teammate Tyson Jackson, DE. He's big and fast, just wondered what the knocks are on him.

Mecca
12-29-2008, 07:52 AM
What is the early verdict on Dorsey's old teammate Tyson Jackson, DE. He's big and fast, just wondered what the knocks are on him.

Do you really want a 290lb end.....at the NFL level he's a 3-4 guy.

KcGopher
12-30-2008, 02:13 PM
despite how bad our defense was i still think we need to go QB (or OL) in the first round. thigpen is not the answer. :cuss:

aturnis
12-30-2008, 02:32 PM
oh no! new guy!

aturnis
01-01-2009, 02:04 PM
Update -

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
Still Brian Orakpo. I've seen some mocks with a quarterback going here, but since I don't think Sam Bradford will declare, that's not really an option.

Not that it should be anyway - Tyler Thigpen has done a really remarkable job this year, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game ever since taking over as the full-time starter on Oct. 26. I know he's guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He'll continue to get better.

Besides, if you have a lot of holes like the Chiefs do, why would you upgrade one of your strengths? It makes no sense, especially considering how bad the defense is. Kansas City had just 10 sacks on the year!

The Chiefs foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level.

That man can be Brian Orakpo. In 11 games, Orakpo had 15.5 tackles for loss and 10.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback.

By the way, I saw that one of ESPN's draft guys had Aaron Maybin, a defensive end from Penn State, going in this slot. That's great, except Maybin already told the media and coaching staff he's coming back for his redshirt junior year. Maybin could ultimately declare, and if he does, he'll go top five. For now, he won't be in my mock.

34. # Kansas City Chiefs: Max Unger, C, Oregon
More than half of Kansas City's roster needs to be upgraded. You can include the center position, currently occupied by Rudy Niswanger.

Pick change; previously Alex Mack, C

67. Kansas City Chiefs: Darry Beckwith, ILB, LSU
Napoleon Harris was Kansas City's middle linebacker when the season began. That failed miserably, as Harris was cut a few weeks ago. Pat Thomas took Harris' spot, and based on Kansas City's defensive rankings - click here for accurate NFL Run, Pass Defensive Rankings - it hasn't exactly worked out too well.

aturnis
01-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Steelers stole Alex Mack. Fucking Thieves.

OnTheWarpath58
01-01-2009, 02:59 PM
Wow.

That's a HUGE jump for Unger. Most mocks/scouts had him as a late 3rd/early 4th guy.

Dude is versatile - can play every position on the line.

Tribal Warfare
01-02-2009, 11:52 PM
Update -

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
Still Brian Orakpo. I've seen some mocks with a quarterback going here, but since I don't think Sam Bradford will declare, that's not really an option.

Not that it should be anyway - Tyler Thigpen has done a really remarkable job this year, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game ever since taking over as the full-time starter on Oct. 26. I know he's guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He'll continue to get better.

Besides, if you have a lot of holes like the Chiefs do, why would you upgrade one of your strengths? It makes no sense, especially considering how bad the defense is. Kansas City had just 10 sacks on the year!

The Chiefs foolishly traded away Jared Allen prior to the 2008 Draft, while moving Tamba Hali to right end failed miserably. Hali, now back at left end, needs a dominant pass-rusher across from him to once again play at his 2007 level.

That man can be Brian Orakpo. In 11 games, Orakpo had 15.5 tackles for loss and 10.5 sacks, as he's established himself as the premier defensive end in this draft class. Kansas City's young defense would greatly benefit from having him rushing the opposing quarterback.

By the way, I saw that one of ESPN's draft guys had Aaron Maybin, a defensive end from Penn State, going in this slot. That's great, except Maybin already told the media and coaching staff he's coming back for his redshirt junior year. Maybin could ultimately declare, and if he does, he'll go top five. For now, he won't be in my mock.



I know for a fact that this guy just looks at the fantasy football stats, and doesn't review actual game film concerning Thigpen.

Ultra Peanut
01-03-2009, 09:19 AM
Anyone calling QB a strength couldn't possibly be watching Thiggy.

OnTheWarpath58
01-08-2009, 05:36 PM
New for 1/8/2009:

Bradford

Unger

Beckwith

Pestilence
01-10-2009, 12:29 PM
New for 1/8/2009:

Bradford

Unger

Beckwith

God that's horrible.

Pestilence
01-10-2009, 12:32 PM
There is another mock draft on there that has us picking Brian Orakpo and Percy Harvin.

Tribal Warfare
01-10-2009, 01:10 PM
New for 1/8/2009:

Bradford

Unger

Beckwith

I E-mailed "Walter" and told him if Sanchez or Stafford declares that player will be KC's pick. Then he went on how Thigpen had a great year, The Chiefs don't "need a QB". I essentially bitch slapped that he should stop looking at the fantasy stats and start watching game film.

milkman
01-11-2009, 07:42 AM
God that's horrible.

I agree.

Based on how this mock falls, I think I'd go with Matt Shaunessy in the 2nd and Antoine Caldwell in the 3rd.

Bambi
01-12-2009, 10:47 PM
Why do you guys care about this mock draft?

It looks stupid.

Pestilence
01-16-2009, 10:14 AM
Updated 01/16/09

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think?

Assuming the Chiefs go to a 3-4 with Pioli, Curry would be an inside linebacker for them. With trading down nearly impossible at No. 3 (no owner will want to trade up and pay tons of money to an unproven player in this economy), it's safe to say Curry won't be chosen.

So, that leaves us with the following options:

Best offensive tackle available
Michael Crabtree
Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno
Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
Mark Sanchez

With Larry Johnson still on the books, I think you can eliminate Wells and Moreno. Wide receiver isn't a prime need, so the Crabtree selection becomes unlikely. A left tackle could happen - the Chiefs would move Branden Albert inside.

Orakpo is probably out because he struggled against Alex Boone in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl. Brown is a stronger possibility if he has a great performance at the Combine. The Chiefs are likely to switch to the 3-4, and Brown, a nasty pass rusher coming off a huge year, would fit in perfectly.

However, I'm going with Sanchez. A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

By the way, I'd like to say that this 2009 NFL Mock Draft is based on what I think will happen; not on what should happen.

If I were running the Chiefs, I'd continue to go with Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen did a remarkable job as the full-time quarterback, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game since Oct. 26. I know he was guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He also had a weak running game and a pedestrian offensive line. He'll continue to get better.

34. Clint Sintim, DE/OLB, Virginia
With the Chiefs likely to make the jump to the 3-4, Scott Pioli will be busy hunting for players who can fit that scheme this April. Why not begin with Clint Sintim to help an anemic pass rush that managed a grand total of 10 sacks in 2008?
Pick change; previously Sam Bradford, QB

67. Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas
More than half of Kansas City's roster needs to be upgraded. You can include the center position, currently occupied by Rudy Niswanger.

Pestilence
01-22-2009, 10:53 AM
Updated.....only change is in the 3rd round. I'd be fucking happy with this draft.

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
JAN. 22 UPDATE: This isn't as much of a lock as Matt Stafford going first or the Seahawks taking Michael Crabtree, but I think there's a pretty good chance that the Chiefs select Mark Sanchez. A new regime usually means a new quarterback, and Sanchez is way too talented to pass up.

Some may argue that new general manager Scott Pioli has never taken a quarterback this high. That may be true, but it's fairly obvious why - he had Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady in New England. Why would he use a first-rounder on a signal caller? I doubt Pioli read Andy Reid's NFL Drafting for Dummies.

All the talk regarding New England's pick last season was that Pioli and Bill Belichick never spent a top-10 choice on a linebacker. Well, they drafted Jerod Mayo, didn't they?

PREVIOUS UPDATES: With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think?

Assuming the Chiefs go to a 3-4 with Pioli, Curry would be an inside linebacker for them. With trading down nearly impossible at No. 3 (no owner will want to trade up and pay tons of money to an unproven player in this economy), it's safe to say Curry won't be chosen.

So, that leaves us with the following options:

Best offensive tackle available
Michael Crabtree
Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno
Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
Mark Sanchez

With Larry Johnson still on the books, I think you can eliminate Wells and Moreno. Wide receiver isn't a prime need, so the Crabtree selection becomes unlikely. A left tackle could happen - the Chiefs would move Branden Albert inside.

Orakpo is probably out because he struggled against Alex Boone in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl. Brown is a stronger possibility if he has a great performance at the Combine. The Chiefs are likely to switch to the 3-4, and Brown, a nasty pass rusher coming off a huge year, would fit in perfectly.

However, I'm going with Sanchez. A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

By the way, I'd like to say that this 2009 NFL Mock Draft is based on what I think will happen; not on what should happen.

If I were running the Chiefs, I'd continue to go with Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen did a remarkable job as the full-time quarterback, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game since Oct. 26. I know he was guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He also had a weak running game and a pedestrian offensive line. He'll continue to get better.

34. Clint Sintim, DE/OLB, Virginia
With the Chiefs likely to make the jump to the 3-4, Scott Pioli will be busy hunting for players who can fit that scheme this April. Why not begin with Clint Sintim to help an anemic pass rush that managed a grand total of 10 sacks in 2008?

67. Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama
More than half of Kansas City's roster needs to be upgraded. You can include the center position, currently occupied by Rudy Niswanger.

theorangelion
01-24-2009, 06:46 PM
Brian Orakpo is looking better and better

Mecca
01-25-2009, 01:12 AM
Brian Orakpo is looking better and better

Yea I'm sorry Brian Orakpo isn't worth a pick that high.

Pestilence
01-28-2009, 10:20 AM
Updated.....only change is in the 3rd round. I'd be fucking happy with this draft.

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
JAN. 22 UPDATE: This isn't as much of a lock as Matt Stafford going first or the Seahawks taking Michael Crabtree, but I think there's a pretty good chance that the Chiefs select Mark Sanchez. A new regime usually means a new quarterback, and Sanchez is way too talented to pass up.

Some may argue that new general manager Scott Pioli has never taken a quarterback this high. That may be true, but it's fairly obvious why - he had Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady in New England. Why would he use a first-rounder on a signal caller? I doubt Pioli read Andy Reid's NFL Drafting for Dummies.

All the talk regarding New England's pick last season was that Pioli and Bill Belichick never spent a top-10 choice on a linebacker. Well, they drafted Jerod Mayo, didn't they?

PREVIOUS UPDATES: With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think?

Assuming the Chiefs go to a 3-4 with Pioli, Curry would be an inside linebacker for them. With trading down nearly impossible at No. 3 (no owner will want to trade up and pay tons of money to an unproven player in this economy), it's safe to say Curry won't be chosen.

So, that leaves us with the following options:

Best offensive tackle available
Michael Crabtree
Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno
Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
Mark Sanchez

With Larry Johnson still on the books, I think you can eliminate Wells and Moreno. Wide receiver isn't a prime need, so the Crabtree selection becomes unlikely. A left tackle could happen - the Chiefs would move Branden Albert inside.

Orakpo is probably out because he struggled against Alex Boone in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl. Brown is a stronger possibility if he has a great performance at the Combine. The Chiefs are likely to switch to the 3-4, and Brown, a nasty pass rusher coming off a huge year, would fit in perfectly.

However, I'm going with Sanchez. A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

By the way, I'd like to say that this 2009 NFL Mock Draft is based on what I think will happen; not on what should happen.

If I were running the Chiefs, I'd continue to go with Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen did a remarkable job as the full-time quarterback, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game since Oct. 26. I know he was guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He also had a weak running game and a pedestrian offensive line. He'll continue to get better.

34. Clint Sintim, DE/OLB, Virginia
With the Chiefs likely to make the jump to the 3-4, Scott Pioli will be busy hunting for players who can fit that scheme this April. Why not begin with Clint Sintim to help an anemic pass rush that managed a grand total of 10 sacks in 2008?

67. Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama
More than half of Kansas City's roster needs to be upgraded. You can include the center position, currently occupied by Rudy Niswanger.

Updated as of November 28th....and it's still this.

Pestilence
01-28-2009, 11:06 AM
FWIW.....here is the 1st round.

Detroit Lions: Matt Stafford, QB, Georgia
JAN. 28 UPDATE: Matt McGuire said it best on one of his radio appearances this weekend: "Pre-order your Stafford jerseys, Lions fans." With no consensus No. 1 tackle and a new regime in town, this will be a quarterback.

How about trading down? I've received a few e-mails about this, but it's not happening. First of all, it takes way too many resources to move up to the top selection. And second, given the economy we're in, no owner wants to pay an obscene amount of money to an unproven player.

JAN. 22 UPDATE: No surprise, but I still have Matt Stafford No. 1. I received an e-mail or two asking why I don't have Mark Sanchez going first. Matt McGuire did a great job explaining this in his blog. Stafford's arm is much more powerful than Sanchez's, so he presents the Lions with more upside. Also, Stafford has much more starting experience than Sanchez. After going 0-16, the Lions can't afford to whiff here, and taking a signal caller with one real year of starting experience is really risky.

JAN. 15 UPDATE: With Sam Bradford electing to come back for his redshirt junior season at Oklahoma, the Lions might as well begin printing up Matt Stafford jerseys. Stafford's a near-lock to be chosen first overall.

DEC. 25 UPDATE: Despite numerous e-mails from Lions fans insisting that the correct course of action would be drafting an offensive tackle, I'm still calling for a quarterback. Detroit needs a face for their franchise. They can't get a quarterback with Dallas' selection, but they'll be able to grab a tackle with that pick.

Also, Lions owner William Darth Clay Sidious Ford doesn't really care about winning. He just wants money. What brings in more money than a rookie signal caller? Everyone in Detroit will be lining up to buy the new Matt Stafford jersey, especially if he appears to be as promising as Matt Ryan.

PREVIOUS UPDATES: I'm not saying a left tackle isn't a possibility, but like the Falcons last year, the Lions need a face for their franchise. Right now, that face is Matt Millen, even though he was fired a few months ago. When people think about the Detroit franchise, they think about how Millen helped ruin it.

The Lions can get a quality tackle with Dallas' choice or in the No. 33 slot. Assuming most of the junior quarterbacks remain in school, they won't have the chance to secure a top-rated signal-caller in the 2009 NFL Draft.


St. Louis Rams: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
This pick could be Eugene Monroe. But I'd like to make the case for Michael Crabtree.

There is no consensus No. 1 tackle. A few months ago, Michael Oher was the guy. Questions arose about his consistency in pass blocking, and he fell off. Next, Andre Smith was the top tackle. When concerns about his weight and pass blocking came to light, his stock dropped as well. Now, despite not doing anything and sitting out the Senior Bowl, Monroe has somehow elevated up to No. 2 overall status? Sounds a bit fishy to me. For all we know, people might starting finding things wrong with him pretty soon. Jason Smith, Mike Mayock's top-rated tackle, could then move into this slot.

I don't think there is any offensive tackle in this class worthy of being drafted second overall. If any of these four were in the 2008 NFL Draft class, would they be behind Jake Long and Ryan Clady? Maybe.

Michael Crabtree is the top prospect in this class. Not only is he a dynamic and physically gifted receiver, he also fills a need.

Now, I know the Rams are in more of a dire need of an upgrade at tackle, but they really could use a No. 1 receiver. Torry Holt's play really fell off in 2008, and there's a very good chance the regressing former Pro Bowler, who turns 33 in June, could be cut or traded. Donnie Avery had a very good rookie season, but at 5-11, 190, he can't be the top wideout.

Furthermore, financial concerns also have to be an issue. Our economy is worse than it's been in about three-quarters of a century. NFL tickets are being slashed by at least 10 percent. The Rams, who are still relatively new to St. Louis, need a hot ticket.

That would be Crabtree. He'd fill the seats. He would sell jerseys much better than any offensive lineman. And he would bring some excitement to a city that just watched its football team finish a depressing 2-14.

Pick change; previously Andre Smith, OT


Kansas City Chiefs: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
JAN. 28 UPDATE: I've gotten a few e-mails asking me why I don't think Aaron Curry will be the guy here. Check out the top-three NFL Draft pick trends since 1998 for the answer. I'm not saying there's no chance that Curry won't be taken - the NFL Draft is known for being wildly unpredictable - but Sanchez is more than likely the choice here.

JAN. 22 UPDATE: This isn't as much of a lock as Matt Stafford going first or the Seahawks taking Michael Crabtree, but I think there's a pretty good chance that the Chiefs select Mark Sanchez. A new regime usually means a new quarterback, and Sanchez is way too talented to pass up.

Some may argue that new general manager Scott Pioli has never taken a quarterback this high. That may be true, but it's fairly obvious why - he had Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady in New England. Why would he use a first-rounder on a signal caller? I doubt Pioli read Andy Reid's NFL Drafting for Dummies.

All the talk regarding New England's pick last season was that Pioli and Bill Belichick never spent a top-10 choice on a linebacker. Well, they drafted Jerod Mayo, didn't they?

PREVIOUS UPDATES: With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think?

Assuming the Chiefs go to a 3-4 with Pioli, Curry would be an inside linebacker for them. With trading down nearly impossible at No. 3 (no owner will want to trade up and pay tons of money to an unproven player in this economy), it's safe to say Curry won't be chosen.

So, that leaves us with the following options:

Best offensive tackle available
Michael Crabtree
Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno
Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
Mark Sanchez

With Larry Johnson still on the books, I think you can eliminate Wells and Moreno. Wide receiver isn't a prime need, so the Crabtree selection becomes unlikely. A left tackle could happen - the Chiefs would move Branden Albert inside.

Orakpo is probably out because he struggled against Alex Boone in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl. Brown is a stronger possibility if he has a great performance at the Combine. The Chiefs are likely to switch to the 3-4, and Brown, a nasty pass rusher coming off a huge year, would fit in perfectly.

However, I'm going with Sanchez. A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

By the way, I'd like to say that this 2009 NFL Mock Draft is based on what I think will happen; not on what should happen.

If I were running the Chiefs, I'd continue to go with Tyler Thigpen. Thigpen did a remarkable job as the full-time quarterback, commanding Kansas City's offense to 21.6 points per game since Oct. 26. I know he was guilty of a lot of turnovers, but this was essentially his rookie year. He also had a weak running game and a pedestrian offensive line. He'll continue to get better.


Seattle Seahawks: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia
The Seahawks will take Michael Crabtree if he's available here. Bobby Engram, 36, will be hitting free agency. Deion Branch, who is always hurt, could be a cap casualty. Nate Burleson stinks and is coming off a torn ACL. The rest of the wideouts are terrible. If the Seahawks don't address the position, they can have fun struggling offensively next year.

However, I have Crabtree going to the Rams for all the reasons I listed above. If Crabtree isn't available, it's fairly obvious that the Seahawks will take the top left tackle available to eventually supplant the 35-year-old Walter Jones.

Pick change; previously Michael Crabtree, WR






Cleveland Browns: Aaron Curry, ILB, Wake Forest
With the hiring of Eric Mangini and the continued use of the 3-4 defense, it looks like this selection will come down to one of three players: Brian Orakpo, Aaron Curry or Everette Brown.

The Browns need help throughout their linebacking corps, so either one of the three would make sense.

I'm saying it'll be Curry, who will be an instant upgrade in the middle of the 3-4. Orakpo didn't play well in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl, while Brown at No. 5 will be a bit of a reach unless he blows everyone away at the Combine.


Cincinnati Bengals: Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
I have trouble seeing this selection as anything but a left tackle. The oft-injured Levi Jones, Cincinnati's current player at the position, hasn't played well in two years and could be cut this spring. Stacy Andrews, meanwhile, is a free agent and could be replaced by Anthony Collins.

With Eugene Monroe off the board, it looks like this selection will be between Michael Oher and Jason Smith. Either makes sense, but I feel as though Oher is more talented. Regardless, the Bengals' front needs help; it surrendered 51 sacks in 2008.

Pick change; previously Eugene Monroe, OT


Oakland Raiders: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
If Michael Crabtree somehow makes it past St. Louis, Kansas City, Seattle, Cleveland and Cincinnati, which is very unlikely, the Raiders will draft him. Unfortunately for the Silver and Black faithful, that's not very realistic.

Oakland needs to improve its offensive line. Mario Henderson played well at the end of the year, so Andre Smith will fit in nicely as a punishing run-blocker on the right side.

One guy I'm keeping a watch on is Everette Brown. I know Brown is strictly 3-4, but since when have Al Davis' draft picks made sense? If Brown dazzles with a great 40 at the Combine, Undead Al might go with the Florida State defensive end.

Pick change; previously Michael Oher, OT


Jacksonville Jaguars: Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
David Garrard's interception total has soared from three to 13 in just one year. But don't blame him. He was knocked down more than any other quarterback this season. And according to the sacks totals allowed by NFL left tackles, Khalif Barnes was one of the league's worst, surrendering 7.5 sacks.

Jacksonville must take care of its franchise quarterback. The team desperately needs to upgrade Garrard's blind side. Jason Smith, Mike Mayock's No. 1 offensive tackle, makes too much sense at this spot.


Green Bay Packers: B.J. Raji, NT, Boston College
With the hiring of Dom Capers, the Packers will be switching to a 3-4. The centerpiece to any 3-4 is a monstrous, run-stuffing nose tackle - something Green Bay currently lacks.

Matt McGuire has done an excellent job with his 2009 Senior Bowl Updates. In them, you can read all about how B.J. Raji has debacled opposing offensive linemen all week. In the actual Senior Bowl, Raji proved to be unblockable. Raji has really risen his stock, and I really don't see him making it past No. 9. He could actually go higher than this. If he's not here, an alternative would be Everette Brown.


San Francisco 49ers: Everette Brown, DE/OLB, Florida State
Manny Lawson has been a bust in terms of his ability to get to the quarterback. While Parys Haralson evolved into a dependable pass-rusher, Lawson has compiled six career sacks in 32 games. Terrible.

It's time for the 49ers to move on in terms of finding a dynamic sack artist. Everette Brown would be a nice solution; he fits the scheme and he finished the year with 21.5 TFL and 13.5 sacks.


Buffalo Bills: Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
One of the reasons Buffalo collapsed from a 5-1 record and maintained the same draft position it had in April 2008 is its lacking pass rush. The team finished with 24 sacks on the year, and no player had more than four. I know Aaron Schobel missed most of the season, but the Bills had similar problems even when he was in the lineup.

Though he somewhat struggled in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl, Brian Orakpo had a brilliant senior campaign, finishing with 15.5 TFL and 10.5 sacks in 11 games.


Denver Broncos: Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC
Josh McDaniels was just hired as the head coach, and he brought on Mike Nolan as his defensive coordinator. Nolan will implement his 3-4 defense, meaning the Broncos will be busy scouring for the right personnel to fit that scheme in the next two drafts.

They can start by selecting Rey Maualuga, the top pure 3-4 inside linebacker on the board. Maybe he can help the team rank outside the bottom five in defense for the first time in ages.


Washington Redskins: Eben Britton, OT, Arizona
The Redskins have major problems at right tackle. Jon Jansen, who turns 33 in January, is playing on his last legs. Jansen will be back with the team, but it's clear that Washington will be looking for a major upgrade at the position.

Eben Britton would fit in well on the right side, and could potentially slide over to the blind side once Samuels' time is up. I'm aware that Britton is a bit of a reach here, and there is a chance Washington could trade down. However, teams have reached for offensive tackles recently. Look at Sam Baker and Duane Brown last year. The position is in such high demand that some of the teams are just that desperate.


New Orleans Saints: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
Cornerback isn't New Orleans' greatest need, especially with Tracy Porter coming back to the lineup. However, it's still a need that has to be addressed, and Malcolm Jenkins, a definite top-10 prospect, is the best player on the board. James Laurinaitis is also an option, but his stock has slipped a bit.

Pick change; previously James Laurinaitis, ILB


Houston Texans: Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
This could be a spot where the Texans trade down. Their greatest needs this offseason are strong safety, guard, nose tackle and a 4-3 end to complement Mario Williams. Taking the best player at each of those four positions would be reaching.

If Houston can't find a trading partner, they may look at Vontae Davis. You can never have enough talented corners, and it's not like the Texans couldn't use an upgrade at the position. Davis is probably the top player available anyway, so I think this is Houston's best option considering the circumstances.

Pick change; previously William Moore, SS

Pestilence
01-28-2009, 11:07 AM
San Diego Chargers: Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State
It's amazing how much can change in half a year. In August, LaDainian Tomlinson was going first in nine out of 10 fantasy football drafts. Now, he and general manager A.J. Smith hate each other so much that Smith removed LT2 as his friend on Facebook. RotoWorld, meanwhile, reported that several NFL executives don't believe LT2 is even worth a Day 1 selection at this point.

With Darren Sproles also hitting free agency, the Chargers may look to secure a top-tier running back in April's draft.


New York Jets: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
This definitely isn't New York's greatest need, but Knowshon Moreno could be too good to pass up with the top two corners off the board. Thomas Jones just had a great year, but the fact remains that he turns 31 in August.

Pick change; previously Malcolm Jenkins, CB






Chicago Bears: Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois
Larry English is made for the 3-4, but I think he could definitely work well in a Tampa-2 4-3 scheme. English's stock is on fire after an impressive showing at the Senior Bowl.

The Bears really need help at receiver, and with mega-talents like Jeremy Maclin and Percy Harvin on the board, choosing one of them is a possibility. But I doubt Chicago does that. The Bears will upgrade their perennial strengths - the offensive line and defense - before anything else.

It sounds weird to say this, but the Bears need help at defensive end. Prior to playing the Rams, who count more as a Big XII team than an NFL squad, starters Alex Brown and Adewale Ogunleye had just five combined sacks in 10 games. Mark Anderson, meanwhile, recorded only one sack. Chicago needs to upgrade its pass rush.

Pick change; previously Michael Johnson, DE


Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State
Josh Freeman didn't exactly have the best senior year, but his size and arm strength could propel him into the first round, just like Joe Flacco last year.

If Jon Gruden were still coaching, I couldn't see this happening. Gruden, while a very good coach, has proven over the years that he refuses to work with young quarterbacks.

Well, there's a new regime in Tampa Bay, and a new regime usually means a new quarterback.

Pick change; previously Knowshon Moreno, RB


Detroit Lions: William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
Is this a bit of a reach? I think so. But as we saw last year, the offensive tackle position is in such high demand that teams don't really have a choice but to target those players early. See Sam Baker and Duane Brown as prime examples.

The Lions surrendered 52 sacks in 2008. They desperately need a dominant left tackle, allowing Jeff Backus to slide inside.


Philadelphia Eagles: Alex Mack, C, California
With Brent Celek's 10-catch performance in the NFC Championship, Andy Reid can focus on upgrading the offensive line in the first round.

Alex Mack is the top lineman on the board. As Matt McGuire pointed out in his outstanding 2009 Senior Bowl Updates, Mack has distanced himself from Max Unger in terms of being the No. 1 center on the board.

Center is not a weakness for the Eagles, but it's certainly not a strength. Getting a potential All-Pro like Mack would really bolster Philadelphia's pedestrian rushing attack - assuming Big Red actually decides to run the ball.


Minnesota Vikings: D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
I really want to give the Vikings an offensive tackle, but with all of the top-tier players at that position off the board, Minnesota could look to address its second greatest need, which is cornerback. Cedric Griffin has had an up-and-down season, and Minnesota simply needs more consistency in its defensive backfield.

If Tampa Bay doesn't take Josh Freeman, this is another spot where he'll be considered. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Minnesota went that direction in an effort to find an upgrade for the horrendous Tarvaris Jackson.

Pick change; previously Vontae Davis, CB


New England Patriots: Aaron Maybin, DE/OLB, Penn State
Bill Belichick added a young inside linebacker to his roster last April. He may look to upgrade the exterior this time around.

The Patriots struggled to put pressure on the quarterback at times (31 sacks) and Mike Vrabel, though still dependable, will be 34 in August. Something has to be done about this.






Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
Could you imagine how lethal Atlanta's offense would be if the team somehow acquired a dynamic tight end? Matt Ryan would be unstoppable.

With Brandon Pettigrew going as high as No. 11 in some mocks, the Falcons will be very fortunate if they manage to get the top-rated tight end down here.


Miami Dolphins: Duke Robinson, G, Oklahoma
The Dolphins can take care of a huge hole at left guard by drafting Duke Robinson in this spot. With Jake Long and Robinson on the left side, Miami would boast one of the elite rushing attacks in the league.


Baltimore Ravens: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
Mark Clayton has started playing really well down the stretch, but with Derrick Mason, who just turned 35, a year away from hitting free agency, it's time the Ravens begin developing their next No. 1 receiver for Joe Flacco.


Indianapolis Colts: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss
Both sides of Indianapolis' run defense has to be addressed. Defensive tackle has always been a problem for the Colts, especially after the Ed Johnson marijuana scandal. I could see the Colts taking the best available player in terms of a running back, defensive tackle or offensive tackle.


Philadelphia Eagles: Louis Delmas, FS, Western Michigan
Brian Dawkins is adored by all Eagles fans, but the future Hall of Fame free safety turns 36 in October. Even if Dawkins re-signs with Philadelphia, the team will need to find his successor soon because he's somewhat of a liability in coverage. It's clear that Quintin Demps isn't the answer after his horrific performance in the NFC Championship.

Louis Delmas has really shined at the Senior Bowl and put himself into first-round consideration.






New York Giants: James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State
With solid talents like James Laurinaitis, William Moore and Michael Johnson slipping, the Giants have plenty of options.

The best player available of those three is Laurinaitis, who could really help out New York's linebacking corps. This season could be Antonio Pierce's last in New York, while the weakside position is in need of an upgrade.

Wide receiver is also an option, but this draft is so deep at the position that the Giants can take someone like Kenny Britt or Hakeem Nicks in the second round.

Pick change; previously Paul Kruger, DE


Tennessee Titans: Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
Yeah, I know... the Titans don't draft receivers. Hey, miracles can happen, and maybe they'll be embarrassed because everyone made fun of them for not taking one last year.

In all seriousness, Tennessee has proven in the past that they look for skill-position players with great 40 times. Percy Harvin would qualify for that.


Arizona Cardinals: LeSean McCoy, RB, Pittsburgh
The Cardinals were somehow able to run the ball during their unexpected playoff surge, but that doesn't change the fact that they need an upgrade in the backfield. Edgerrin James' days in Arizona are numbered, while Tim Hightower does too much dancing around.


Pittsburgh Steelers: Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
With tons of talented offensive linemen off the board, the Steelers may choose to add the best available player to their defensive line. That would be Tyson Jackson, who will eventually take Aaron Smith's spot in the lineup. Smith turns 33 in April.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 08:09 PM
I really hope we don't pick Sanchez. I saw a mock where Sanchez fell to us in the 2nd round. How silly would it be for us to pick him so high.

OnTheWarpath58
01-28-2009, 08:11 PM
I really hope we don't pick Sanchez. I saw a mock where Sanchez fell to us in the 2nd round. How silly would it be for us to pick him so high.

Please link that mock.

I'd like to send them a message.

I'll have to send it in Braille, because they are obviously fucking blind.

Mecca
01-28-2009, 08:14 PM
I really hope we don't pick Sanchez. I saw a mock where Sanchez fell to us in the 2nd round. How silly would it be for us to pick him so high.

Ok so because 1 dumbass has him in the 2nd round while everyone else has him in the top 10 you're going to buy that...

I'm telling you these noobs are getting bad.

Tribal Warfare
01-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Ok so because 1 dumbass has him in the 2nd round while everyone else has him in the top 10 you're going to buy that...

I'm telling you these noobs are getting bad.

I believe Hootie's retard progeny must've discovered the internet

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 08:52 PM
(CP won't let me post a url, but it's at nfldraftdog - dot com)

Has the chiefs picking Orakpo at 3, and Sanchez in the 2nd round. So, if we don't pick him, where does Sanchez get picked? He left USC early, only started for 1 year on a team that has a talent advantage over everyone they play and a stellar defense.

Mecca
01-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Mark Sanchez in no way shape or form will drop below 17, that is the WORST case scenario.

You need to look at more reputable sites than NFLdraftdog, and really Brian Orakpo is someone who I would in no way shape or form draft.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:00 PM
You guys are pretty quick on the insults. It's not as if there is no precedent for QB's to drop. Look at Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers. They both fell a long ways when they were nearly top picks. And everyone says this draft class is weak on QBs. I think it's more likely that Sanchez would drop to the twenties and either get picked there or someone would trade up to that spot like happened with Quinn. When we have Thigpen who played pretty well for a guy who has so little experience, and a team that just set a record for defensive futility, I think we better be picking a DE or a LB. Why pick Sanchez when we could get plenty of other QBs, but it's not like there are a lot of available pass rushers. Why take sanchez when we can have Orakpo or Aaron Curry?

Tribal Warfare
01-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Why pick Sanchez when we could get plenty of other QBs, but it's not like there are a lot of available pass rushers. Why take sanchez when we can have Orakpo or Aaron Curry?

BPA, that would be either Stafford or Sanchez

Mecca
01-28-2009, 09:04 PM
And now we're back to this Thigpen crap...

The QB draft was considered weak until 4 of the top 5 underclassmen who were thought of for next years draft declared. It's a horrendous senior class but with 4 of the top 5 juniors declaring that changes it and makes next years QB draft the bare one...As of today there is 1 1st round QB in next years draft and he's playing in the spread...that may change but it will at best be no better than this years next years will have big names that aren't great prospects..

And Brian Orakpo is a physically gifted player from Texas who doesn't always show up, I personally really detest the idea of drafting a Texas player..

And you're in the thread that explained why Curry shouldn't go that high, go find the last OLB that went that high...

Go listen to the podcast from Scott Wright I posted, he discusses QB's for this year and next year early on...

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:08 PM
Well I think we should trade down in any case. Sanchez might be a decent QB if you are picking at 20, but I don't think so at 3. Everyone knows the seahawks want Crabtree at 4, so if anyone is looking for a WR they will be looking to us. I wish we could trade down, accumulate some picks and still get curry or maualuga.

Mecca
01-28-2009, 09:11 PM
Enough with the LB obsession you don't take LB's with top 10 picks..and trading down is unlikely.

It's just so funny to see the absolute QB fear.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:20 PM
Terrell Suggs went 10th overall in 03.
Seau went 5th in 90
Derrick Thomas went 4th in 89
Peter Boulware and James Farrior both went in the top 8 in 1997. So if you can pick Derrick Thomas or Junior Seau or Terrell Suggs in the top 5, you pass because you don't pick Lb's in the top 5?

Mecca
01-28-2009, 09:23 PM
LOL....Suggs played defensive end in college and would play end in a 4-3...Thomas was a rusher, there is a complete difference in a rush backer and say Aaron Curry..

The examples you are giving me of non rush backers are over a decade ago...give me the last LB taken with a top 5 pick...the only guys you gave me who aren't rush backers are Farrior and Seau...look how long ago that was.

It's basically been proven you shouldn't be taking traditional LB's or really LB's in general that high.

Mecca
01-28-2009, 09:29 PM
read this....it's a common sense explanation.

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think?

Assuming the Chiefs go to a 3-4 with Pioli, Curry would be an inside linebacker for them. With trading down nearly impossible at No. 3 (no owner will want to trade up and pay tons of money to an unproven player in this economy), it's safe to say Curry won't be chosen.

So, that leaves us with the following options:

Best offensive tackle available
Michael Crabtree
Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno
Brian Orakpo/Everette Brown
Mark Sanchez

With Larry Johnson still on the books, I think you can eliminate Wells and Moreno. Wide receiver isn't a prime need, so the Crabtree selection becomes unlikely. A left tackle could happen - the Chiefs would move Branden Albert inside.

Orakpo is probably out because he struggled against Alex Boone in the Doritos Fiesta Bowl. Brown is a stronger possibility if he has a great performance at the Combine. The Chiefs are likely to switch to the 3-4, and Brown, a nasty pass rusher coming off a huge year, would fit in perfectly.

However, I'm going with Sanchez. A new regime almost always equals a new quarterback. Sanchez is a hot commodity, coming off a brilliant performance at the Rose Bowl, sponsored by Kraft. The knock on him is the lack of experience, but going 28-of-35 for 413 yards and four touchdowns against Penn State pretty much quelled those concerns.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:39 PM
I think the whole "new regime = draft a quarterback in the first round" thing is silly. Look at the dolphins last year. Take the offensive lineman to build on, or take the pass rusher to build a defense on. The Matt Ryan/Joe Flacco thing works when you have a defense a line and a running game. The chiefs have no defense, a bad line, and a bad running game. we bring in a fresh quarterback with a fat contract and we might very well have a Joey Harrington/David Carr situation. Pioli was part of the decision making process that got Brady and Cassell late in the draft. Why do they just assume he's going to take a QB?

Mecca
01-28-2009, 09:42 PM
......

Why do I find myself having the same argument everyday?

Yea Dmitrov was from the Pats too so he was gonna take a late round QB, oh shit wait he took a QB with his first pick...

All those things you just said have been argued a 100 times do I have to do it again? You can draft 6th round QB's when you have Drew Bledsoe who at the time was their franchise...and same with Cassell when you have Brady they didn't take either of those players thinking they'd be the future they took shots at late picks at a position where they already had a player..is this hard to understand?

And if you even mentioning taking a OT with the 3rd pick I'm gonna go apeshit on you.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 09:44 PM
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:46 PM
No I got that. But they were drafting for a team that was already winning with a successful quarterback and line and defense. Taking a QB very high is silly when you have no need for one, so you take chances in later rounds hoping to get a gem. But the Chiefs have glaring needs in the linebacking corps, the D-Line, offensive line, and depending on the LJ situation at RB and at FB. So why not draft at those glaring needs and take a QB or two in the late rounds. IF you don't find a gem there, then try again next year, the chiefs aren't in any hurry to win. They are building a team from scratch basically. They have plenty of time to get a QB, why do they have to do that very first?

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Terrell Suggs went 10th overall in 03.
Seau went 5th in 90
Derrick Thomas went 4th in 89
Peter Boulware and James Farrior both went in the top 8 in 1997. So if you can pick Derrick Thomas or Junior Seau or Terrell Suggs in the top 5, you pass because you don't pick Lb's in the top 5?

ROFL

Troy Aikman went #1 overall in 1989.

Thomas went fourth.

Who has the three Super Bowl rings?

JFC.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 09:48 PM
They have plenty of time to get a QB, why do they have to do that very first?

:shake:

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 09:56 PM
If it's Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, then of course you take him. But Sanchez only started 1 year. How is his track record better than Matt Leinart's and look how well Leinart has done. Troy Aikman has rings, but he also had a hell of a good defense. How many super bowls did Dan Marino win? They had Dan Marino for a decade and a half and never won one because they never had a killer defense. We can argue all we want, there are tons of examples of busts from all positions with better players taken later. I think the real question is of priorities. Do you want to build offense or defense? Defense wins championships, so I want some defense. And if we can't do great on defense, then go Offensive line. Peyton Manning finally won a super bowl once they got the Defense going really well. The giants beat the patriots with Eli Manning managing games, and with a solid running game. There are not a lot of examples of teams winning because of a great passing game and a mediocre defense compared to great defenses and a mediocre passing game.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 09:59 PM
Now is the perfect time to get the QB. You never know when you will be in the top 5 again to select one. We have the LT, we have the WR, get the QB. A defense can be built easier than an offense, next year is loaded with defense prospects. Its the perfect time, I dont know what is so fucking hard to understand for you dipshits.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 10:08 PM
If it's Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, then of course you take him. But Sanchez only started 1 year. How is his track record better than Matt Leinart's and look how well Leinart has done.

Leinart was drafted for a different offense. Dennis Green ran the WCO, which is perfectly suited for Leinart. Haley runs a "long-ball" offense. Leinart will be a successful NFL QB. Keep in mind, he's playing behind a likely Hall of Famer. He's not playing behind Jon Kitna.

Troy Aikman has rings, but he also had a hell of a good defense.

Wrong.

Troy Aikman is one of the most accurate passers in NFL AND he's a Hall of Famer. How many of their defensive players that you claim are so great are in the Hall? Aikman, Irvin and Smith are in the Hall and were part of an elite offense.


How many super bowls did Dan Marino win? They had Dan Marino for a decade and a half and never won one because they never had a killer defense.

Wrong.

Dan Marino, once again, is in the Hall of Fame. The reason that Marino never won a Super Bowl is simple. First, he faced Joe Montana and the loaded SF 49ers in 1984. Secondly, they could never find a running back (therefore a running game) to compliment their passing game. Hence, no Super Bowl. Their defenses were at times very good to great.


We can argue all we want, there are tons of examples of busts from all positions with better players taken later.

NEVER pass on the best available athlete out of "fear". That's just plain stupid, especially when there's a possible Franchise Quarterback sitting there when you choose.


I think the real question is of priorities. Do you want to build offense or defense? Defense wins championships, so I want some defense.

Wrong.

The Chiefs have THE MOST talent-depleted roster in the NFL. Outside of Left Tackle, the Chiefs should take the best available athlete with the third overall pick. PERIOD.

And if we can't do great on defense, then go Offensive line.

Wrong.

If the Chiefs chose another Left Tackle, they'd have over $75 million dollars wrapped up in the Left Tackle position. That's complete lunacy.


Peyton Manning finally won a super bowl once they got the Defense going really well.

Wrong.

The Colts won their Championship due to Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai and Marvin Harrison. Their defense stunk but played well enough for them not to lose. Their defense still stinks, which is why they went out of the playoffs in round one.

The giants beat the patriots with Eli Manning managing games, and with a solid running game. There are not a lot of examples of teams winning because of a great passing game and a mediocre defense compared to great defenses and a mediocre passing game.

The Giants beat the Patriots because Eli Manning (their FRANCHISE QB) played an absolutely flawless game. Period. The Patriots win that game 8 times out of 10. The Giants had a great defense that year but that couldn't save them in 2008 because the offense, mainly Manning, reverted.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:10 PM
Leinart was drafted for a different offense. Dennis Green ran the WCO, which is perfectly suited for Leinart. Haley runs a "long-ball" offense. Leinart will be a successful NFL QB. Keep in mind, he's playing behind a likely Hall of Famer. He's not playing behind Jon Kitna.



Wrong.

Troy Aikman is one of the most accurate passers in NFL AND he's a Hall of Famer. How many of their defensive players that you claim are so great are in the Hall? Aikman, Irvin and Smith are in the Hall and were part of an elite offense.




Wrong.

Dan Marino, once again, is in the Hall of Fame. The reason that Marino never won a Super Bowl is simple. First, he faced Joe Montana and the loaded SF 49ers in 1984. Secondly, they could never find a running back (therefore a running game) to compliment their passing game. Hence, no Super Bowl. Their defenses were at times very good to great.




NEVER pass on the best available athlete out of "fear". That's just plain stupid, especially when there's a possible Franchise Quarterback sitting there when you choose.




Wrong.

The Chiefs have THE MOST talent-depleted roster in the NFL. Outside of Left Tackle, the Chiefs should take the best available athlete with the third overall pick. PERIOD.



Wrong.

If the Chiefs chose another Left Tackle, they'd have over $75 million dollars wrapped up in the Left Tackle position. That's complete lunacy.




Wrong.

The Colts won their Championship due to Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Joseph Addai and Marvin Harrison. Their defense stunk but played well enough for them not to lose. Their defense still stinks, which is why they went out of the playoffs in round one.



The Giants beat the Patriots because Eli Manning (their FRANCHISE QB) played an absolutely flawless game. Period. The Patriots win that game 8 times out of 10. The Giants had a great defense that year but that couldn't save them in 2008 because the offense, mainly Manning, reverted.

Great post. :clap:

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:20 PM
Now is the perfect time to get the QB. You never know when you will be in the top 5 again to select one. We have the LT, we have the WR, get the QB. A defense can be built easier than an offense, next year is loaded with defense prospects. Its the perfect time, I dont know what is so ****ing hard to understand for you dipshits.

Again, fast with the insults. There is very little certainty in things like this. Pretending to have all the answers is a clear sign that you don't fully grasp the situation.

Look at super bowl record.

Last year, Eli Manning won, was a top pick, except that the Defense was clearly the best part of the giants, they stopped the patriots, and Eli was a game manager. And don't forget that the Giants had run Kurt Warner out of town in favor of Manning. Had they really given Warner a chance, do you think they still could have won the super bowl? I do. They got him easily in free agency.

Two years ago Peyton and the Colts won the super bowl, here's a good example of a #1 pick paying off.

Then the Steelers, Ben was picked late in the first round, also bumps up the drafting QB idea, though again, Ben was a game manager, completed only 9 passes in the super bowl, they ran the ball well and have a great defense. I'd much rather pick Troy Polamalu than Ben Roethlisberger.

Then we have 2 Tom Brady Patriots, picked up in the 7th round. The patriots until last season were a run first, pass second, play great defense kind of a team, and they won 3 super bowls, including the upset of the high flying rams with an amazing offense.

Between there we have the Brad Johnson led Buccaneers with a great defense, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Derrick Brooks, etc.

Then in 2000 you have the Trent Dilfer led Ravens with an amazing defense.

in 99 you have the Rams amazing offense winning a super bowl, though with undrafted Kurt Warner. People forget how good their defense was too, it wasnt dismal, it was till middle of the pack, and they had, by the way, Orlando Pace at LT

in 98 and 97 you have the John Elway Broncos winning back to back, however, you'll see that they did so with solid running game and solid defense, something the broncos lacked earlier in Elway's career.

in 96 you have the Favre led Packers, Brett was a 2nd round pick and then traded. The packers had a solid defense including Reggie White.

If you go back farther you get lots of Cowboys and 49ers, who had top QB's but also had great Defenses and ran the ball really well.

Sure a great QB helps, but is only a piece of the puzzle. There are many many examples of teams with solid running games and great defenses that do very well without a great qb, but a team with a great qb and a mediocre defense doesn't have a great track record.

Look at the Redskins of the 80's, They won 3 super bowls with different QBs, the Giants won 2 super bowls with 2 different qbs.

The consistent element of great teams are great defenses and solid running games. The great quarterback is much less of a necessity.

Look at the chiefs of the 90's, yeah they didn't win much in the postseason, I'll give you that, but that had a solid defense, they pounded the run and they had the best winning percentage of anyone in the 90's. Look at the Steelers over the past 15 years. A great defense, a solid running game, and a series of game managing quarterbacks and they've gone to 3 super bowls.

I'm looking at this track record and deciding that I'd rather focus on the defense than the offense, and especially the quarterback.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:23 PM
Do you really think the giants won the super bowl last year because of Eli Manning? They faced the BEST offense of all time and held them to 14 points. The Patriots defense wasn't that great that year, their offense just blew people away.

And The colts won the year before because they got their defense turned around. That super bowl was played in the rain and they ran the ball most of the game. They won because they played good defense and didnt' turn the ball over. Saying they won because of Manning Addai Harrison and Wayne is silly. Bob Sanders needs to be listed much higher. Addai Sanders MAnning....

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Get the QB first, then build the defense. All the dyntasy teams got the QB in their first year - Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys, Patriots. Get Stafford or Sanchez and then build the rest of the team. Draft defense with next 6 picks, I could care less how they do it. A franchise QB is what this team needs the most, more than anything else. We are in position to do it.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 10:26 PM
Do you really think the giants won the super bowl last year because of Eli Manning? They faced the BEST offense of all time and held them to 14 points. The Patriots defense wasn't that great that year, their offense just blew people away.

And The colts won the year before because they got their defense turned around. That super bowl was played in the rain and they ran the ball most of the game. They won because they played good defense and didnt' turn the ball over. Saying they won because of Manning Addai Harrison and Wayne is silly. Bob Sanders needs to be listed much higher. Addai Sanders MAnning....

Yeah, because as we all know, without Bob Sanders, the Bears would have put up 40.

:rolleyes:

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Colts defense sure did beat some high powered offenses during that run - Chiefs, Ravens and Bears.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:32 PM
How's this for a stat:

The quarterback who leads the league in passing yards in the regular season has never ever won the super bowl in the same season. Not Once. How about Passing Defense or Rushing defense or rushing offense? plenty of examples.

You cite me an example of a team with a quarterback drafted high that carried a team to super bowl victory without an awesome defense or solid running game. There are plenty of Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons available in free agency that can manage an offense and hand the ball off and win you super bowls. Marino never did that. It takes a complete team to win a super bowl, and a complete team doesnt necessarily mean a top quarterback, just someone who is smart and doesn't turn the ball over too much. They can be found in free agency, in the later rounds, off the bench, but great defenses and great running games are more often built on years of drafting a large pool of talented players.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Colts defense sure did beat some high powered offenses during that run - Chiefs, Ravens and Bears.

and you're forgetting the Tom Brady led Patriots. I'm not saying we should pass if Peyton Manning is on the board, but I haven't been real convinced by Mark Sanchez.

Without Sanders the Colts never get to that super bowl, just look at how they did when sanders was hurt, or look at them early this year when Jeff Saturday was hurt.

Oh and the fact that the Colts faced the "high powered" Chiefs Ravens Bears and Patriots in the playoffs doesn't make you wonder about putting QB above defense and running the ball? The chiefs completely lucked in at 9-7, but did so running the ball mercilessly, and the ravens, bears and patriots are built on defense and the run. I would take a great defense over a great offense any day.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:34 PM
How's this for a stat:

The quarterback who leads the league in passing yards in the regular season has never ever won the super bowl in the same season. Not Once. How about Passing Defense or Rushing defense or rushing offense? plenty of examples.

You cite me an example of a team with a quarterback drafted high that carried a team to super bowl victory without an awesome defense or solid running game. There are plenty of Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons available in free agency that can manage an offense and hand the ball off and win you super bowls. Marino never did that. It takes a complete team to win a super bowl, and a complete team doesnt necessarily mean a top quarterback, just someone who is smart and doesn't turn the ball over too much. They can be found in free agency, in the later rounds, off the bench, but great defenses and great running games are more often built on years of drafting a large pool of talented players.

We have a true fan, where is Can when you need him.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:40 PM
oh and I'm forgetting Dwight Freeeny of the colts. Consistently winning teams almost always have great pass rushers. T

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:41 PM
And guess what those teams get the QB first then they build their defense. Wow what a concept.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 10:43 PM
yeah like the 2000 ravens and 2002 buccaneers

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 10:51 PM
yeah like the 2000 ravens and 2002 buccaneers

Funny those teams never made it back to the Super Bowl.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 10:58 PM
yeah like the 2000 ravens and 2002 buccaneers

Yay! Let's build a great defense and hope that an aging, free agent veteran can take the Chiefs to the Super Bowl! Woo-hoo!!

Wake up, Son: The 90's are over.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 11:05 PM
Yay! Let's build a great defense and hope that an aging, free agent veteran can take the Chiefs to the Super Bowl! Woo-hoo!!

Wake up son: The 90's are over.

Yep been there done that. But if you draft a QB in the 1st round you cant build a great defense, even though the Cowboys, Patriots, Steelers, Giants and others have proven that wrong.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 11:06 PM
No, but they were both contenders for quite some time. The Ravens were back in the title game this year.

You're saying that winning one super bowl is insignificant?

The ravens were 10-6, 7-9, 10-6, 9-7, 6-10, 13-3, 5-11, 11-5 since then, that's with Elvis Grbac Kyle Boller (a first round bust) and Joe Flacco ( a late first round pick) They were in the title game this year, but because their defense was unstoppable and Flacco didn't make many mistakes. He didn't light up the scoreboards, they ran the ball well and depended on the defense to force lots of turnovers. They picked off pennington in one playoff game almost as many times as he threw picks all season.

And the buccaneers had been successful for years prior to their super bowl. The core defensive players had aged and many left for lucrative contracts elsewhere. from 97 to 01, under Tony Dungy and led by the quarterbacking corps of Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, and Brad Johnson, they went 10-6 8-8 11-5 10-6 9-7 and then Dungy was canned cause they didn't think he could get it done in the playoffs, brought in Gruden and went 12-4 and won the super bowl. But by then the aging defensive guys weren't the same as they used to be, what followed was a decline in the defense and all sorts of blunders in the handling of the team by Gruden who is an "offensive guru" QB coach kind of guy. Also they had given up first round picks to get gruden and had significant salary cap issues.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 11:13 PM
The Ravens were back in the title game this year.




JFC.

AFTER they moved up in the first round and did what?

Oh yeah, drafted what they think is a Franchise QB.

NINE YEARS LATER.

As to the rest of your post, JFC. What a bunch of hogwash.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 11:23 PM
I'm not saying you can't get a great defense after you get a quarterback in the top 5. What I'm saying is this:

A great defense and solid running game will make for a consistently successful team. A great quarterback is not necessary to win. Sure it would be nice to have a peyton manning, but those guys are very rare. So if Sanchez is a peyton manning, then by all means take him, but the list of qb busts in the first round is quite long. The 90's chiefs were the winningest team of the 90's. Yes they didn't win many playoff games, but they were very close to being super bowl caliber several years, but we never quite got everything put together right. Those teams were based on defense and running the ball. We brought in an old Montana and Allen and we were a game away from the super bowl. Free agent veterans can fill big holes like Quarterback if the rest of the team is solid. The problem with the 90's was carl peterson. Had we been picking quarterbacks in later rounds and had found a gem in there, we might very well have a ring or two, but he never picked qbs after his first few years when they didn't pan out. for every peyton manning there's three Todd Blackledges.

All I'm saying is that if you look at the track records teams with great defenses are consistent winners, and teams with great quarterbacks aren't quite so much.

Even if you land a great QB it still might not do much. Look at Cincinatti. A few years ago it seemed Palmer was the next Manning, and look how terrible they've been since then. They don't have a defense.

How much better off woud Tennesse be if they hadn't picked Vince "I thought about retiring my rookie season" Young. If your quartback draft pick busts, it sets a team back a long time. What if they had picked someone else, maybe that player isn't a hall of famer, but a defensive pick or an offensive line pick, anything other than QB and that player can still contribute even if they aren't fantastic.

How about the Giants, they had Kurt Warner, who we see can still play. What if they had picked Robert Gallery or Larry Fitzgerald instead?

2002 draft. Texans take David Carr 1st, Julius Peppers goes 2nd, and then The Lions take Joey Harrington third. Quentin Jammer, Roy Williams (the safety), John Henderson, Dwight Freeney, and Albert Haynesworth are on the board. You really telling me that the texans and Lions are better off picking Qbs to put behind their terrible offensive lines than they are tacking any of those impact defensive players that are still great. What would it look like in Houston if they had Dwight Freeney back in 2002 and had just picked up a veteran free agent QB to manage games for a while?

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 11:25 PM
JFC.

AFTER they moved up in the first round and did what?

Oh yeah, drafted what they think is a Franchise QB.

NINE YEARS LATER.

As to the rest of your post, JFC. What a bunch of hogwash.


Did you watch any of the Raven's playoff games? Their defense just ran people over. Quarterbacks were running for their lives, heave-hoing lame ducks and they couldnt run the ball at all. Their offense managed the clock, made few mistakes, managed the game.

Remember when Kyle Boller was the first round pick to save the franchise? How'd that work out? I would take Ed Reed before Joe Flacco any day.


Oh and they weren't starting fresh. Yeah they didn't have a great season last year, but they have had one of the most consistently great defenses of the past decade. bettered by maybe only pittsburgh.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 11:31 PM
Titans would be in the Super Bowl if they had drafted Cutler like Fisher wanted. You are underminded the QB position which is the most important by far. Your little theory of anybody can lead a QB to a Super Bowl is bullshit for the most part. 57% of the Super Bowls have been won by 1st round QB's. Throw Brady & Montana into that group and its around 70%. Not to mention out of those non-first rounders Stabuch is included and he would have been a first if he didnt have to go to Vietnam. If you want to be the 90's Chiefs go ahead, I would rather be the 90's Cowboys. Which is the team that alot of us want to build. Strong defense with a playmaking offense. Not a game managed one.

BigChiefFan
01-28-2009, 11:39 PM
You guys are chasing your tails. I think you both are actually in agreement, however one of you PREFERS a QB THIS YEAR via the draft and it seems it must be our 1st round pick(Sanchez,Stafford or Bust) and the other prefers one at a later time or by other means, besides the draft. I think you both make some valid points, but for God's sake let's have a little more fun and alot less bitchin'.

We might be making a move for Cassell AND still keeping our 1st rounder this year.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 11:41 PM
Titans would be in the Super Bowl if they had drafted Cutler like Fisher wanted. You are underminded the QB position which is the most important by far. Your little theory of anybody can lead a QB to a Super Bowl is bullshit for the most part. 57% of the Super Bowls have been won by 1st round QB's. Throw Brady & Montana into that group and its around 70%. Not to mention out of those non-first rounders Stabuch is included and he would have been a first if he didnt have to go to Vietnam. If you want to be the 90's Chiefs go ahead, I would rather be the 90's Cowboys. Which is the team that alot of us want to build. Strong defense with a playmaking offense. Not a game managed one.

Wait....why are you throwing montana in there? He was a third round pick? and Brady? he was a seventh round pick!

I'm totally with you on getting a great QB, I just think that if you pick one in the top 3 and he doesn't become Peyton Manning then you have screwed yourself with a huge contract on a guy who may not even play much. I just think of every single draft choice as a gamble. I think there are defensive players and offensive line type guys who are much better bets to be successsful in the nfl than the QB choices are. So for my money, take sure fire playmakers early, and pick some QBs in the later rounds. Montana was a 3rd round choice, Brady was a seventh. They were taking guys that were better bets and then taking a risk on quarterbacks later on. You pick a QB in the seventh round every season and you're bound to get a decent one and you'll never get burned with a fifty million dollar contract. Look at Arizona with all the money they have tied up with Leinart while Warner takes them to the Super Bowl. And Tennesse in the Super Bowl if they chose Cutler instead? Well, you might be right, but look how much they lost on picking Young, the guys riding the bench and pulling in a huge salary. They could have had an impact player in addition to the Kerry Collins managed running attack. Put in Cutler and maybe that's a play making offense. But if Tennesee picks D'Brickashaw Ferguson or A.J. Hawk, I think they are definitely a better team than they were this year. Quarterback is a very high risk pick, if he doesn't start then he's practically a waste, other positions aren't like that.

ChiefsCountry
01-28-2009, 11:45 PM
So you are scared of a QB busting. Wow read up:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5306951#post5306951

BigChiefFan
01-28-2009, 11:48 PM
I think Pioli is thinking of going the Cassell route, freeing up the 1st rounder for another position.

jeffp12
01-28-2009, 11:54 PM
You guys are chasing your tails. I think you both are actually in agreement, however one of you PREFERS a QB THIS YEAR via the draft and it seems it must be our 1st round pick(Sanchez,Stafford or Bust) and the other prefers one at a later time or by other means, besides the draft. I think you both make some valid points, but for God's sake let's have a little more fun and alot less bitchin'.

We might be making a move for Cassell AND still keeping our 1st rounder this year.

Yeah you're right. It's a chicken or the egg kind of thing. Does the quarterback make the great team or does the great team make the quarterback? It can work both ways. My point is that Tyler Thigpen is an okay quarterback, maybe not for long, maybe it was just a fluke, but he did pretty well for a guy who rarely took snaps in practice and was thrust in as the 3rd qb and we should give him a shot. You draft sanchez and he might not beat thigpen as the starter. And even if he does and thigpen and croyle are sitting, we have some talent that is wasted. You pick a pass rusher and he doesnt become reggie white you can still use him some of the time, it's not a total bust.

Personally I want to see an NFL team try a quarterback by committee approach. Alternate series. When a QB goes down and you put in a backup who never plays in games you don't know what you have and there's a steep learning curve, if you alternate then both guys are experienced, both guys build confidence, and if one goes down then you just use the other full time. Plus it makes it that much harder to game plan against. It wasn't long ago that they said running back by committe can't work, but now it's the norm.

I'm probably going to catch hell for saying this but Imagine a quarterback duo of Thigpen and Tebow. The reason the running quarterback hasn't succeeded that well at the NFL level is because of injuries, but if you have two, then that risk is greatly reduced. Just saying, somebody oughta try it. Even if it fails it could be fun to watch.

I am a diehard chiefs fan, and I would much rather see them winning consistently behind a great defense than experiencing the ups and downs of the great offense. Those vermeil teams were fun to watch on offense, but boy was it frustrating on defense. Schottenheimer teams were fun to watch on defense, but boy was it frustrating on offense. But if i had a choice, I would pick the schottenheimer teams because with that defense all we needed was a decent offense to get us to 13-3, add a playmaker or two and we could have won super bowls. Under Vermeil that offense was great, but I don't think an extra player or two on defense would have gotten us a ring. That's all I'm saying.

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:04 AM
Yeah you're right. It's a chicken or the egg kind of thing. Does the quarterback make the great team or does the great team make the quarterback? It can work both ways. My point is that Tyler Thigpen is an okay quarterback, maybe not for long, maybe it was just a fluke, but he did pretty well for a guy who rarely took snaps in practice and was thrust in as the 3rd qb and we should give him a shot. You draft sanchez and he might not beat thigpen as the starter. And even if he does and thigpen and croyle are sitting, we have some talent that is wasted. You pick a pass rusher and he doesnt become reggie white you can still use him some of the time, it's not a total bust.

Personally I want to see an NFL team try a quarterback by committee approach. Alternate series. When a QB goes down and you put in a backup who never plays in games you don't know what you have and there's a steep learning curve, if you alternate then both guys are experienced, both guys build confidence, and if one goes down then you just use the other full time. Plus it makes it that much harder to game plan against. It wasn't long ago that they said running back by committe can't work, but now it's the norm.

I'm probably going to catch hell for saying this but Imagine a quarterback duo of Thigpen and Tebow. The reason the running quarterback hasn't succeeded that well at the NFL level is because of injuries, but if you have two, then that risk is greatly reduced. Just saying, somebody oughta try it. Even if it fails it could be fun to watch.

I am a diehard chiefs fan, and I would much rather see them winning consistently behind a great defense than experiencing the ups and downs of the great offense. Those vermeil teams were fun to watch on offense, but boy was it frustrating on defense. Schottenheimer teams were fun to watch on defense, but boy was it frustrating on offense. But if i had a choice, I would pick the schottenheimer teams because with that defense all we needed was a decent offense to get us to 13-3, add a playmaker or two and we could have won super bowls. Under Vermeil that offense was great, but I don't think an extra player or two on defense would have gotten us a ring. That's all I'm saying.I like alot of what you had to say, so I'll just point out that I don't like the Tebow idea in the least just to get that out of the way.

I'm also hopeful that, by watching the way the Patriots teams operated, that we can emulate them, by not juss being good at only one particular facet of the game. The Pats of recent years, are always well prepared and disciplined in all three phases of the game. It won't happen over night, but I can see Pioli improving the team fairly quickly and us being balanced in our approach.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 12:14 AM
So you are scared of a QB busting. Wow read up:


I doubt 7 out of 33 is much better than simply the law of averages would give you.

If the record was like 15 of 33 top 5 picked qbs won a superbowl than you have some good statistical backup, but 7 out of 33 doesn't go much above the background noise.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 01:14 AM
I think Pioli is thinking of going the Cassell route, freeing up the 1st rounder for another position.

You've also thought that Cowher AND Shanahan would be coaching the Chiefs.

No personal offense whatsoever but I think you're off on this one, too.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 01:16 AM
Yeah you're right. It's a chicken or the egg kind of thing

Anything you say on this topic moving forward is INVALID.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I just don't know how to respond.

Help?

ChiefsCountry
01-29-2009, 01:26 AM
Anything you say on this topic moving forward is INVALID.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I just don't know how to respond.

Help?

He is what Mr. Talking Can refers to as a true fan.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 01:31 AM
I doubt 7 out of 33 is much better than simply the law of averages would give you.

If the record was like 15 of 33 top 5 picked qbs won a superbowl than you have some good statistical backup, but 7 out of 33 doesn't go much above the background noise.

Of course, those 7 went on to the Super Bowl, right?

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 01:36 AM
Anything you say on this topic moving forward is INVALID.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I just don't know how to respond.

Help?

why

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 01:40 AM
Wait....why are you throwing montana in there? He was a third round pick? and Brady? he was a seventh round pick!

First off, Champ, Brady was a 6th.

Are you seriously going to suggest that the Chiefs or any other team are routinely going to find HALL OF FAME QUARTERBACKS in the third and sixth round?

Huh?????????????????????

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 01:46 AM
One of my biggest concerns is this: A great offensive line can make most quarterbacks look great. A terrible offensive line can make most quarterbacks look terrible.

So If you pick an amazing quarterback, a peyton manning or a dan marino, then sure, maybe he can overcome shortcomings in other places, but if you pick a Ben Roethlisberger, or a Trent Green or most mortal quarterbacks and put them behind a bad line you get a bad quarterback. So I would rather we shore up the line, shore up most of the team before we get a quarterback.

Herm's first year, when the offensive line was still as good as it was under vermeil, before guys started retiring, we made the playoffs despite losing trent green for most of the season. Damon Huard filled in and his stats looked like this
148-244 60.7 1878 yards 7.7yds/pass 11 td 1 int 98.0 rating

He was a pro bowl caliber QB because we ran the ball so well and had protection. Then in 07 and 08 we get the offensive line retirements and then huard looks like this
206-332 62.0 2257 6.8 11td 13int 76.8

and then in 08 he couldn't stay healthy and neither could Croyle because we couldn't protect them. You draft Peyton Manning and put him back there and we still don't have a lot of success, maybe he can overcome some of this, but he's not going to be the hall of famer he is without a good line. So I say invest in the big guys up front on both sides of the ball and they make everyone else look better. Far too often we give credit to running backs quarterbacks wide receivers and cornerbacks and safeties and linebackers for the stuff that linemen do.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 01:47 AM
One of my biggest concerns is this: A great offensive line can make most quarterbacks look great. A terrible offensive line can make most quarterbacks look terrible.

So If you pick an amazing quarterback, a peyton manning or a dan marino, then sure, maybe he can overcome shortcomings in other places, but if you pick a Ben Roethlisberger, or a Trent Green or most mortal quarterbacks and put them behind a bad line you get a bad quarterback. So I would rather we shore up the line, shore up most of the team before we get a quarterback.

Herm's first year, when the offensive line was still as good as it was under vermeil, before guys started retiring, we made the playoffs despite losing trent green for most of the season. Damon Huard filled in and his stats looked like this
148-244 60.7 1878 yards 7.7yds/pass 11 td 1 int 98.0 rating

He was a pro bowl caliber QB because we ran the ball so well and had protection. Then in 07 and 08 we get the offensive line retirements and then huard looks like this
206-332 62.0 2257 6.8 11td 13int 76.8

and then in 08 he couldn't stay healthy and neither could Croyle because we couldn't protect them. You draft Peyton Manning and put him back there and we still don't have a lot of success, maybe he can overcome some of this, but he's not going to be the hall of famer he is without a good line. So I say invest in the big guys up front on both sides of the ball and they make everyone else look better. Far too often we give credit to running backs quarterbacks wide receivers and cornerbacks and safeties and linebackers for the stuff that linemen do.

You can easily shore up the line by drafting in the 3rd/4th round and signing a free agent or two.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 01:49 AM
Look at super bowl history, or look at the history of teams that are consistently winning. Hall of fame quarterbacks arent a requirement to win super bowls. They sure help, but winning is built on defense and offensive lines. You put Peyton Manning on a team without a defense or offensive line and you don't have much at all.

And sorry I said seventh when it was sixth. Huge difference. The point was he was lumping in 3 super bowl victories to the draft qbs in the top 5 strategy because it was Brady who was very much not a top pick.

You get a great offensive and defensive line and you'll make most any QB and defensive backfield look great.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 01:49 AM
One of my biggest concerns is this: A great offensive line can make most quarterbacks look great. A terrible offensive line can make most quarterbacks look terrible.

So If you pick an amazing quarterback, a peyton manning or a dan marino, then sure, maybe he can overcome shortcomings in other places, but if you pick a Ben Roethlisberger, or a Trent Green or most mortal quarterbacks and put them behind a bad line you get a bad quarterback. So I would rather we shore up the line, shore up most of the team before we get a quarterback.

Herm's first year, when the offensive line was still as good as it was under vermeil, before guys started retiring, we made the playoffs despite losing trent green for most of the season. Damon Huard filled in and his stats looked like this
148-244 60.7 1878 yards 7.7yds/pass 11 td 1 int 98.0 rating

He was a pro bowl caliber QB because we ran the ball so well and had protection. Then in 07 and 08 we get the offensive line retirements and then huard looks like this
206-332 62.0 2257 6.8 11td 13int 76.8

and then in 08 he couldn't stay healthy and neither could Croyle because we couldn't protect them. You draft Peyton Manning and put him back there and we still don't have a lot of success, maybe he can overcome some of this, but he's not going to be the hall of famer he is without a good line. So I say invest in the big guys up front on both sides of the ball and they make everyone else look better. Far too often we give credit to running backs quarterbacks wide receivers and cornerbacks and safeties and linebackers for the stuff that linemen do.

GFY

You're a clueless, 90's automaton that would feel better if the Chiefs took a guard to minimize the pain that would ensue if drafted a QB that failed.

Nice, closed minded opinion.

I'll cherish it the next time I wipe my ass.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 01:52 AM
Seriously guys, think about this season. Had we had Tom Brady himself at QB, would we have been great? No. I don't think so. We do better, sure, but our defense couldn't stop anybody, couldn't pressure QBs worse than any team in history, and couldn't run the ball worth a damn. You put Brady back there and maybe we're 7-9, maybe we're even 8-8 and win this terrible division, but we sure as hell don't go anywhere in the playoffs.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 01:57 AM
I'd like to know what premier teams didn't have great QB's I'd really love to know, 1 year and out teams don't count...

Also let me quickly point you to some facts..the Chiefs drafted their LT in the 1st round last year yes? Ok how many teams have more than 1 1st round pick on the line, the answer is not many, some have none or one going for more than that is frankly overkill. The Pats have 1..the last pick of the 1st, the Giants have none and I can go on and on, so that immediately puts OT out of the discussion.

DE would be a fine argument DE's are very valuable I think the 2nd most after QB, but none of the guys in this draft are worth top 5 picks, you may not like Sanchez and you may think he's risky but I consider Brian Orakpo even more risky..people bring up Leinart just bring up the draft history of Texas under Mack Brown it's not pretty.

And for the record Tyler Thigpen is not good, they ran a gimmick offense for him and he is still horribly inaccurate gets worse as games progress, the only reason people like him around here is he strokes their Rich Gannon fancy which is just absurd.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:00 AM
GFY

You're a clueless, 90's automaton that would feel better if the Chiefs took a guard to minimize the pain that would ensue if drafted a QB that failed.

Nice, closed minded opinion.

I'll cherish it the next time I wipe my ass.

I don't believe I'm being closed minded. If you look you'll notice I'm not telling anyong to "GFY" or calling anyone else any names. I'm trying to express an opinion in opposition of your opinion. Get over it. I'm just looking at the facts that I see and hoping we build a great defense and an offensive line that could make Tyler Thigpen or Bruce Gradkowski or Quinn Gray look great.

Just look at Pioli and the Pats. Brady in the sixth round, meanwhile they are drafting Richard Seymour in the top 10. That's how you win championships.

Look at the Lions picking Joey Harrington and how that set the franchise back . A bust at QB not only doesnt contribute to a team at all, can't play a secondary role, but takes up probably 60-70 million dollars in salary space over the next five years while doing so.

The upside is huge if we get a Manning, but I think you have to look at the Ryan Leafs and know for damn sure you're getting a great QB before you pull the trigger.

If we can't pressure the opposing QB we have zero chance at going anywhere, regardless of how good our offense is.

As far as I can tell, the quarterback position is more about the intangibles, the hard work, the preparation than it is about physical ability. Chad Pennington is THE most accurate QB in NFL history despite having a noodle arm. The guy is smart and works hard and gets the job done. This is true of most nfl positions, but moreso about quarterback. A smart defensive lineman who isn't big enough isn't worth much, A smart quarterback with a weak arm isn't going to light up the combine but might manage you to a few super bowl wins if you can protect him and run the ball.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:01 AM
I don't believe I'm being closed minded. If you look you'll notice I'm not telling anyong to "GFY" or calling anyone else any names. I'm trying to express an opinion in opposition of your opinion. Get over it. I'm just looking at the facts that I see and hoping we build a great defense and an offensive line that could make Tyler Thigpen or Bruce Gradkowski or Quinn Gray look great.

Just look at Pioli and the Pats. Brady in the sixth round, meanwhile they are drafting Richard Seymour in the top 10. That's how you win championships.

Look at the Lions picking Joey Harrington and how that set the franchise back . A bust at QB not only doesnt contribute to a team at all, can't play a secondary role, but takes up probably 60-70 million dollars in salary space over the next five years while doing so.

The upside is huge if we get a Manning, but I think you have to look at the Ryan Leafs and know for damn sure you're getting a great QB before you pull the trigger.

If we can't pressure the opposing QB we have zero chance at going anywhere, regardless of how good our offense is.

As far as I can tell, the quarterback position is more about the intangibles, the hard work, the preparation than it is about physical ability. Chad Pennington is THE most accurate QB in NFL history despite having a noodle arm. The guy is smart and works hard and gets the job done. This is true of most nfl positions, but moreso about quarterback. A smart defensive lineman who isn't big enough isn't worth much, A smart quarterback with a weak arm isn't going to light up the combine but might manage you to a few super bowl wins if you can protect him and run the ball.
Hopefully your QB is not taking up 60-70 mil. per year in cap space. :p

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:02 AM
I really don't know how hard it is to understand that there is no need to draft another offensive lineman with a top 5 pick and none of the DE's are good enough to warrant the picks...

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:03 AM
I really don't know how hard it is to understand that there is no need to draft another offensive lineman with a top 5 pick and none of the DE's are good enough to warrant the picks...

Just saying: Stacey Andrews + Some guard in the mid rounds and we are set at the offensive line for years to come.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:05 AM
I'd like to know what premier teams didn't have great QB's I'd really love to know, 1 year and out teams don't count...

Also let me quickly point you to some facts..the Chiefs drafted their LT in the 1st round last year yes? Ok how many teams have more than 1 1st round pick on the line, the answer is not many, some have none or one going for more than that is frankly overkill. The Pats have 1..the last pick of the 1st, the Giants have none and I can go on and on, so that immediately puts OT out of the discussion.

DE would be a fine argument DE's are very valuable I think the 2nd most after QB, but none of the guys in this draft are worth top 5 picks, you may not like Sanchez and you may think he's risky but I consider Brian Orakpo even more risky..people bring up Leinart just bring up the draft history of Texas under Mack Brown it's not pretty.

And for the record Tyler Thigpen is not good, they ran a gimmick offense for him and he is still horribly inaccurate gets worse as games progress, the only reason people like him around here is he strokes their Rich Gannon fancy which is just absurd.

So because some teams can succeed by finding lineman outside of the first round it rules out drafting an offensive tackle? K. What if Orlando Pace is available, or Jonathan Ogden, or Willie Roaf. They went 1st 4th and 8th overall and were anchors to great offenses for years and years. You think Trent green goes to so many pro bowls without Willie Roaf at LT?

Also Branden Albert wasn't an LT, we moved him to left tackle.

I think you take the best available player, I just don't think it's Sanchez. You know how great offensive lines can make average QBs look great. Yeah, well USC has an immense talent advantage across the board, and Sanchez only started for 1 season. Put him on Stanford and see how well he does. I think Aaron Curry is the best available player at the 3 spot. I don't care what the schemes are, the guy can flat out make plays

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:06 AM
Hopefully your QB is not taking up 60-70 mil. per year in cap space. :p

Thats over the life of the contract, which is what's expected that Stafford is going to get with the 1st overall pick.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:08 AM
You really don't know what positional value is do you.....

Albert was drafted as a tackle every team in the league had him on the board as a OT, so lets not make that argument. He's the Chiefs LT there is no reason to draft another one.

If the Chiefs take Aaron Curry with the 3rd pick I'm going to say they made a complete pick out of fear because his bust factor is low but even if he becomes an awesome player it won't mean much because there will be LB's taken rounds later that do fine jobs.

I really wish I didn't have to see people want to strive to be the 90s Chiefs, we saw it again this year it was named the Titans how'd it work out?

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:10 AM
So because some teams can succeed by finding lineman outside of the first round it rules out drafting an offensive tackle? K. What if Orlando Pace is available, or Jonathan Ogden, or Willie Roaf. They went 1st 4th and 8th overall and were anchors to great offenses for years and years. You think Trent green goes to so many pro bowls without Willie Roaf at LT?

Also Branden Albert wasn't an LT, we moved him to left tackle.

I think you take the best available player, I just don't think it's Sanchez. You know how great offensive lines can make average QBs look great. Yeah, well USC has an immense talent advantage across the board, and Sanchez only started for 1 season. Put him on Stanford and see how well he does. I think Aaron Curry is the best available player at the 3 spot. I don't care what the schemes are, the guy can flat out make plays

Albert was definitely projecting to LT. A very specific set of circumstances resulted in him playing LG at the collegiate level. Additionally, he is developing wonderfully. If you can solve the offensive line later in the draft or through free agency, why not do that and take advantage of the opportunity to strike at a franchise QB? Especially when there are no DEs worth a top 5 pick.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:12 AM
Thats over the life of the contract, which is what's expected that Stafford is going to get with the 1st overall pick.

Too bad the lions are going to draft a tackle (and they should.) Also, now is financially speaking an excellent time for KC to draft a QB. A deflationary environment should result in lower contract dollars plus we have tons of cap room.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:12 AM
In my opinion there is literally only 2 or 3 players the Chiefs can realistically take.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:17 AM
I'm just saying. Say we pass on Aaron Curry, go on with Rocky Boiman and Donnie Edwards, and then see what we think of Curry in five or ten years when Sanchez is a bust and we still have a bad defense, meanwhile Cleveland has Curry making plays all over the field. I'm not saying that's for sure what would happen, but it seems pretty likely to me.

If you want to talk about what happened this year. The Titans are the chiefs? They used a top 5 pick on VY a few years ago which is paying them ZERO dividends right now. The guy is riding the bench and taking up a lot of cap space.

The Cardinals are in the Super bowl with a similar situation. A top 10 draft pick QB riding the bench, taking up cap space while a veteran Free agent is leading them to greatness.

The Steelers are in the super bowl again. The Steelers are the epitome of Defense wins championships. Yeah they drafted Roethlisberger in the early part of the first round, but they were an established team with a great defense already. And They won the super bowl in his second season with him completing 9 passes total in the super bowl. The guy has gotten better, but do you think that if Tommy Maddox had still been their QB they couldn't have won the super bowl?

So a Defensive team with a great running game, and a team with a veteran free agent QB are in the super bowl.

If the 90's chiefs are like any of these teams its the steelers. We had a solid defense year after year and a good running game, we just never had quite enough pieces to make it work well enough. WE add veteran Joe Montana who San Fran didn't want anymore and we nearly go to a super bowl. Why are you attacking me as if I'm a moron, I believe we are both making fair points.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:18 AM
Too bad the lions are going to draft a tackle (and they should.) Also, now is financially speaking an excellent time for KC to draft a QB. A deflationary environment should result in lower contract dollars plus we have tons of cap room.

I agree they should draft an OT, they put any QB back there and he'll look terrible. Draft O line and sign a QB. But I expect the lions to be the lions and pick a qb after they picked up Gunther to run their D.

Chiefs=Good
01-29-2009, 02:18 AM
In my opinion there is literally only 2 or 3 players the Chiefs can realistically take.

So Sanchez, Stafford and who?

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:19 AM
I'm just saying. Say we pass on Aaron Curry, go on with Rocky Boiman and Donnie Edwards, and then see what we think of Curry in five or ten years when Sanchez is a bust and we still have a bad defense, meanwhile Cleveland has Curry making plays all over the field. I'm not saying that's for sure what would happen, but it seems pretty likely to me.

If you want to talk about what happened this year. The Titans are the chiefs? They used a top 5 pick on VY a few years ago which is paying them ZERO dividends right now. The guy is riding the bench and taking up a lot of cap space.

The Cardinals are in the Super bowl with a similar situation. A top 10 draft pick QB riding the bench, taking up cap space while a veteran Free agent is leading them to greatness.

The Steelers are in the super bowl again. The Steelers are the epitome of Defense wins championships. Yeah they drafted Roethlisberger in the early part of the first round, but they were an established team with a great defense already. And They won the super bowl in his second season with him completing 9 passes total in the super bowl. The guy has gotten better, but do you think that if Tommy Maddox had still been their QB they couldn't have won the super bowl?

So a Defensive team with a great running game, and a team with a veteran free agent QB are in the super bowl.

If the 90's chiefs are like any of these teams its the steelers. We had a solid defense year after year and a good running game, we just never had quite enough pieces to make it work well enough. WE add veteran Joe Montana who San Fran didn't want anymore and we nearly go to a super bowl. Why are you attacking me as if I'm a moron, I believe we are both making fair points.
A coverage linebacker is in no way, shape or form worth a top 5 pick. I'm sorry. They cannot impact enough games in meaningful ways.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:22 AM
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:23 AM
Oh god.......100 million dollars of OT is just not a good idea. It's overkill major overkill.

Aaron Curry is not a rush backer, if he was I might have a different view of him, he's a prototypical strongside 4-3 guy which means..he'll cover TE's and make some nice plays in the run game I don't see him as a game changer.

See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about, it's the fear, Curry has a really high floor the odds of him being a total bum are pretty low, so that's how you want to draft. Carls gotten it in peoples heads now that if the guy isn't a total shitstick then it wasn't a bad pick since he made so many horrid ones.

You fire on that QB you know why.....QB is far and away the most valuable position in the league, If you took Keith Bulluck off the Titans and gave them a legit QB instead, they'd be better off.

Once again there are at most 4 players the Chiefs can justify drafting this year and none of them are offensive lineman because they just took their LT last year, what is with this obsession you don't need 5 1st round offensive lineman hell you don't even need 1.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:24 AM
So Sanchez, Stafford and who?

BJ Raji if you go to the 3-4 imo.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:24 AM
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?

Yea it's also a position teams devalue and consider not nearly as important...right now LB around the league is the most devalued defensive position.

Tell me who the Colts and Eagles starting LB's are...exactly.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:25 AM
Curry is a great tackler who is fast and has good hands. He's a ball hawk, a turnover making kind of guy. Maybe he isnt' a great run stuffer, but I think if you look at the depth the chiefs have, LB is our definitely worst area.

In his junior year he took 3 picks back for TDs an NCAA record for LBs. That isn't game changing?

And QBs routinely throw for 30 tds a year. Perspective is amazing.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:25 AM
So Sanchez, Stafford and who?

Those 2, Raji if they go 3-4 can be justified and Malcolm Jenkins can be justified as taking the best player on the board at a valuable position, that's it after those I don't think they can really justify another player.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:27 AM
I think DE, DT, and OT are the most valuable positions in the league. When the great O-line is in place then guys like Damon Huard and Matt Hasselback can be pro-bowlers. I think they are the most valuable because they make everyone else look better. A great DT can kill the other teams run game. A great DE can kill the passing game. A great OT can pave the way for 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher. A great QB that you can't protect can't do a lot. A great Qb without a defense can put up points but not many playoff wins.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:28 AM
Ah so you don't value QB's, that's brilliant.

I want you to show me what team has used more than 1, 1st round pick on it's OL...really show me.

I am a supporter of drafting Dlineman but not when the guys aren't worthy of the picks because they aren't the caliber of prospect worthy of the pick.

QB, DE, LT, CB, DT, WR that's the value chart in my opinion.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:28 AM
I think DE, DT, and OT are the most valuable positions in the league. When the great O-line is in place then guys like Damon Huard and Matt Hasselback can be pro-bowlers. I think they are the most valuable because they make everyone else look better. A great DT can kill the other teams run game. A great DE can kill the passing game. A great OT can pave the way for 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher. A great QB that you can't protect can't do a lot. A great Qb without a defense can put up points but not many playoff wins.

Unless we switch to a 3-4, there isnt a defensive player in this years draft you can justify taking at 3. And there isn't any justification to spend a 3 to fix our oline when it can easily be done in FA and a midround draft choice.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:31 AM
And QBs routinely throw for 30 tds a year. Perspective is amazing.

Take a great team with a solid defense and a great offensive line. Take away their Perennial Pro Bowler QB, put in a backup who hasnt started since high school and what do you get?

Matt Cassell fills in for Brady and shows you what I'm talking about. They go 11-5, and only miss the playoffs because the playoff structure is flawed. Most years they get in and I'm not betting against Belicheck in the playoffs. Do you really think Cassell would be great if he were a chief? So the difference between Brady and Cassel was 16-0 to 11-5. I don't think anyone expected them to repeat 16-0 if tom brady was there, maybe 13-3 or 14-2, so downgrading to cassell cost them all of 2 or 3 wins. And you're telling me that QB is the most valuable position. When you can run the ball, protect the QB and play defense, you can make most QBs look good or great.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Ah so you don't value QB's, that's brilliant.

I want you to show me what team has used more than 1, 1st round pick on it's OL...really show me.

I am a supporter of drafting Dlineman but not when the guys aren't worthy of the picks because they aren't the caliber of prospect worthy of the pick.

QB, DE, LT, CB, DT, WR that's the value chart in my opinion.
Exactly. If God's Gift to the defensive line was available in this year's draft, I'd be all for it. But he's not, unless you're talking about Michael Johnson's potential, in which case, please draft him in the second round.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:32 AM
Take a great team with a solid defense and a great offensive line. Take away their Perennial Pro Bowler QB, put in a backup who hasnt started since high school and what do you get?

Matt Cassell fills in for Brady and shows you what I'm talking about. They go 11-5, and only miss the playoffs because the playoff structure is flawed. Most years they get in and I'm not betting against Belicheck in the playoffs. Do you really think Cassell would be great if he were a chief? So the difference between Brady and Cassel was 16-0 to 11-5. I don't think anyone expected them to repeat 16-0 if tom brady was there, maybe 13-3 or 14-2, so downgrading to cassell cost them all of 2 or 3 wins. And you're telling me that QB is the most valuable position. When you can run the ball, protect the QB and play defense, you can make most QBs look good or great.

Uh, New England's defense sucked and they hardly ran the ball.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:35 AM
I would throw safety up there with WR actually but, it's just blatantly obvious this guy listened to, to many Marty and Cowher smash mouth rants.

The OL thing is overkill I will in no way support the idea of using back to back 1st round picks on OT's especially both of them coming in the top 20 and this one being 3rd, if the Chiefs were picking like 28th, I'd have a different view of it.

End I'd support of a player warranted the pick, I'm a big fan of Everette Brown but he's not worth the pick.

So you start really narrowing this down into roughly a 3 or 4 player race.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:37 AM
Uh, New England's defense sucked and they hardly ran the ball.

LOL, well New england actually finished 6th in the league in rushing but the truth is people just look at Cassells stats they don't realize he has fucking Randy Moss on his team, and Wes Welker the Pats lead the league in YAC yards this year..he also took more than double the sacks Brady did..

With Brady NE is winning the Superbowl, this year I have no doubt about it without him they're watching at home.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:37 AM
Remember when the Chiefs had Willie Roaf at LT and John Tait at RT. I know we didn't draft Roaf, but in 2003 we were 13-3 and had a first round bye with those two guys. I am sure there are more examples but that's off the top of my head.

There are so many examples of teams that can win consistently without HOF or top drafted QBs. They aren't as necessary to winning as Defense is. So I say you focus on making a great defense. You know the trend with TEs, theres so many good ones now, Gates, Winslow, Gonzalez. They have changed the position, you don't think a coverage LB isn't going to be helpful?

HEre's my positon chart:

DE, OT, DT, G/C, QB, LB, S, WR, CB, HB, TE, FB, K/P.

You get great big guys up front and it makes everyone else better.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:38 AM
LOL, well New england actually finished 6th in the league in rushing but the truth is people just look at Cassells stats they don't realize he has ****ing Randy Moss on his team, and Wes Welker the Pats lead the league in YAC yards this year..he also took more than double the sacks Brady did..

With Brady NE is winning the Superbowl, this year I have no doubt about it without him they're watching at home.

NE's passing game set up the rushing game, not vice-versa, though. And its the principle of the matter.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:39 AM
Remember when the Chiefs had Willie Roaf at LT and John Tait at RT. I know we didn't draft Roaf, but in 2003 we were 13-3 and had a first round bye with those two guys. I am sure there are more examples but that's off the top of my head.

There are so many examples of teams that can win consistently without HOF or top drafted QBs. They aren't as necessary to winning as Defense is. So I say you focus on making a great defense. You know the trend with TEs, theres so many good ones now, Gates, Winslow, Gonzalez. They have changed the position, you don't think a coverage LB isn't going to be helpful?

HEre's my positon chart:

DE, OT, DT, G/C, QB, LB, S, WR, CB, HB, TE, FB, K/P.

You get great big guys up front and it makes everyone else better.

Remind me of a team that didn't win a playoff game...and had 1 great regular season...great strategy.

You think of guards and centers way to highly...they are not the 2nd most important position on offense that is absurd.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:41 AM
Yeah Randy Moss helps a ton, but I think the Offensive line is the most important aspect of New Englands Success. They can keep their QB upright. And if they want to try to run the ball they can do it well. Their D wasn't great this year, but it was solid. Point is, Brady goes down and they plug in a guy who hasn't started since high school and they go 11-5, and you're telling me QB is the best way to spend a pick. I'm taking a guy to keep any QB upright, whoever it might be, or a guy to put the other teams QB on his butt.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:41 AM
Remember when the Chiefs had Willie Roaf at LT and John Tait at RT. I know we didn't draft Roaf, but in 2003 we were 13-3 and had a first round bye with those two guys. I am sure there are more examples but that's off the top of my head.

There are so many examples of teams that can win consistently without HOF or top drafted QBs. They aren't as necessary to winning as Defense is. So I say you focus on making a great defense. You know the trend with TEs, theres so many good ones now, Gates, Winslow, Gonzalez. They have changed the position, you don't think a coverage LB isn't going to be helpful?

HEre's my positon chart:

DE, OT, DT, G/C, QB, LB, S, WR, CB, HB, TE, FB, K/P.

You get great big guys up front and it makes everyone else better.

Jesus. You have a messed up set of priorities, sir.
T1: OT, DE, QB, DT
T2: OLB, CB, WR, S
T3: G, C, ILB, HB, TE
T4: K, P, FB

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:42 AM
He's basically telling you Will Shields is more important than John Elway, think of how absurd that is.

I think you guys both devalue secondary positions way to much though.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:42 AM
Remind me of a team that didn't win a playoff game...and had 1 great regular season...great strategy.

You think of guards and centers way to highly...they are not the 2nd most important position on offense that is absurd.

Yeah, didn't win a playoff game because they're defense sucked. Against the Peyton Manning Colts, the only playoff game ever without a punt because it was two teams who were focused far too much on their offense and couldn't stop anybody. I'd rather get a great DT like Haynesworth or a DE that can get to the QB than an OT, but still.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:43 AM
Yeah Randy Moss helps a ton, but I think the Offensive line is the most important aspect of New Englands Success. They can keep their QB upright. And if they want to try to run the ball they can do it well. Their D wasn't great this year, but it was solid. Point is, Brady goes down and they plug in a guy who hasn't started since high school and they go 11-5, and you're telling me QB is the best way to spend a pick. I'm taking a guy to keep any QB upright, whoever it might be, or a guy to put the other teams QB on his butt.

Funny, most sacks come from the outside. Yet you are talking about bumping out franchise LT to GUARD and justifying it by saying it helps keep our QB alive. I whole-heartedly disagree.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:44 AM
Would you trade Brian Waters for Matt Ryan right now, jeff?

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:44 AM
I think we should just take an end to take one, we need another Tamba Hali out there, it'll be great.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:45 AM
Would you trade Brian Waters for Matt Ryan right now, jeff?

LOL, boy that's tough......I'd trade Brian Waters for a number of QB's.

QB>Guard by only about a million points.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:46 AM
Jesus. You have a messed up set of priorities, sir.
T1: OT, DE, QB, DT
T2: OLB, CB, WR, S
T3: G, C, ILB, HB, TE
T4: K, P, FB

K.

Did you see the colts without Jeff Saturday? Yeah, didn't do so hot.

Look at when we had Tony Richardson, or look at Lorenzo Neal, wherever he went the guy rushed for a 1000 yards.


And I'm not saying Shields is more important than Elway. When a QB is an amazing obvious Hall of Famer it changes things. But if I was building a team, this is the order of importance to picking guys. You put Elway in there without good Guards and he won't be able to step up in the pocket. You put generic quarterback number 3 in a well protected pocket and he'll pick apart the defense.

Chiefs=Good
01-29-2009, 02:46 AM
Those 2, Raji if they go 3-4 can be justified and Malcolm Jenkins can be justified as taking the best player on the board at a valuable position, that's it after those I don't think they can really justify another player.

Ah k.. So a nose tackle in 3-4 is valuable enough to take with a top 5 pick... On another note, do you think Dorsey can play end in a 3-4??

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:47 AM
Ah k.. So a nose tackle in 3-4 is valuable enough to take with a top 5 pick... On another note, do you think Dorsey can play end in a 3-4??

I think he could, personally. Supposedly, he operates best in space.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:49 AM
K.

Did you see the colts without Jeff Saturday? Yeah, didn't do so hot.

Look at when we had Tony Richardson, or look at Lorenzo Neal, wherever he went the guy rushed for a 1000 yards.


And I'm not saying Shields is more important than Elway. When a QB is an amazing obvious Hall of Famer it changes things. But if I was building a team, this is the order of importance to picking guys. You put Elway in there without good Guards and he won't be able to step up in the pocket. You put generic quarterback number 3 in a well protected pocket and he'll pick apart the defense.
Did you watch the Chiefs under Steve Bono? JESUS. Point and case.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:50 AM
Would you trade Brian Waters for Matt Ryan right now, jeff?

Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:51 AM
Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.
Obviously you have not watched enough SC. Also if they were both rookies, you could draft waters in the 2nd round to 3rd round even if you knew exactly who he would become.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:51 AM
K.

Did you see the colts without Jeff Saturday? Yeah, didn't do so hot.

Look at when we had Tony Richardson, or look at Lorenzo Neal, wherever he went the guy rushed for a 1000 yards.


And I'm not saying Shields is more important than Elway. When a QB is an amazing obvious Hall of Famer it changes things. But if I was building a team, this is the order of importance to picking guys. You put Elway in there without good Guards and he won't be able to step up in the pocket. You put generic quarterback number 3 in a well protected pocket and he'll pick apart the defense.

Where was Jeff Saturday drafted?

This will easily prove the point on draft day, you can tell me they are valuable in games great, all positions are but in relating to the draft interior lineman are not valuable. Many late round and undrafted players are productive interior lineman...

You need to separate positional value of the draft and it on the field.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:51 AM
Ah k.. So a nose tackle in 3-4 is valuable enough to take with a top 5 pick... On another note, do you think Dorsey can play end in a 3-4??

I dont know. The guy was touted as being an athletic phenomenon that would be a sure hit in the NFL, but who knows.

Chiefs=Good
01-29-2009, 02:52 AM
I think he could, personally. Supposedly, he operates best in space.

It seemed he struggled somewhat in the nose tackle postion he played this year in the 4-3.. Im just not sure that an end in a 3-4 takes that much of a different role.. But yer i guess the space may benift him somewhat...

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 02:52 AM
Obviously you have not watched enough SC. Also if they were both rookies, you could draft waters in the 2nd round to 3rd round even if you knew exactly who he would become.

They have an immense talent base, they have so many weapons and an awesome defense. Sanchez was definitely not pressured as much as Ryan was at BC.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:52 AM
Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.

This is really funny, Mark Sanchez got hit quite a bit...you're looking at the SC name nothing more I bet you honestly can't name the starting SC line or their years of experience..there isn't superior NFL talent all across that offense, without Sanchez it will be reflected.

And I'm sorry a guard is much easier replaced than nearly any other position.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:53 AM
It seemed he struggled somewhat in the nose tackle postion he played this year in the 4-3.. Im just not sure that an end in a 3-4 takes that much of a different role.. But yer i guess the space may benift him somewhat...

All d-lineman barring that freak warren sapp struggle in their first 1-2 years. He'll come around yet.

Chiefs=Good
01-29-2009, 02:55 AM
All d-lineman barring that freak warren sapp struggle in their first 1-2 years. He'll come around yet.

No i understand that.. Even Sapp wasnt all out his first year.. But my point is i can see him being great in a tommie harris type role and not so much as a space eater, which he would be in a 3-4 situation...

Mecca
01-29-2009, 02:56 AM
They have an immense talent base, they have so many weapons and an awesome defense. Sanchez was definitely not pressured as much as Ryan was at BC.

I'm an SC fan, I'd love to hear who you think the immense talent on offense is, defense sure, offense no.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 02:58 AM
Here's a fun hypothetical. Would you trade a #3 draft pick for Tommie Harris right now if we were to stay in the 4-3? I think I would. It'd take forever for me to decide, but I think I would.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:00 AM
I wouldn't because he's injury prone and we don't have a QB...

This is going to be one of the few times in franchise history we'll have a chance at one and it pisses me off to see some people want to take a OT with it when we took one last year.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 03:03 AM
Mecca, what is your take on the trade down possibility? Is it conceivable to trade down to the 5-8 range and still nab Sanchez or Stafford? If so, whom do you think is the most realistic candidate for wanting to trade to the 3 spot?

Chiefs=Good
01-29-2009, 03:03 AM
I wouldn't because he's injury prone and we don't have a QB...

This is going to be one of the few times in franchise history we'll have a chance at one and it pisses me off to see some people want to take a OT with it when we took one last year.

Yer prob this.. Rather high on stafford and Sanchez.. otherwise i would...

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:07 AM
I'm an SC fan, I'd love to hear who you think the immense talent on offense is, defense sure, offense no.

I'm sorry, but there's no way Sanchez was in as tough a spot as Ryan was at BC. Maybe he didn't have top prospects around him like Leinart did but it's freakin USC they recruit like nobody's business. BC on the other hand...not so much.

I would much rather be taking a guy from I-AA Delaware who wasn't surrounded by one of the best teams in the country.

Look at the record

last year Flacco from Delaware, Ryan from BC both are instant hits.

2007 Jamarcus from powerhouse LSU hasn't done much, Brady Quinn at Notre Dame, I know they have been sucking, but they still recruit very well.

2006 you have Vince Young from Texas, Matt Leinart from USC, and who's the successful one? Cutler from Vanderbilt..

Eli went to Ole Miss, a good team, but in a strong SEC, he was certainly tested.

Rivers went to NC State, they're not that great.

Roethlisberger went to Miami of Ohio.

Kyle Boller went to CAl, Rex Grossman Florida. Not so good.

Carson Palmer is the exception.

Recent history doesn't favor the QBs from top schools.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:07 AM
Mecca, what is your take on the trade down possibility? Is it conceivable to trade down to the 5-8 range and still nab Sanchez or Stafford? If so, whom do you think is the most realistic candidate for wanting to trade to the 3 spot?

I just don't see it as possible you're going to ask a team to give up basically 3 or 4 high picks, not to mention you just dropped below Cincinatti and Cleveland so it's risky.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:09 AM
I'm sorry, but there's no way Sanchez was in as tough a spot as Ryan was at BC. Maybe he didn't have top prospects around him like Leinart did but it's freakin USC they recruit like nobody's business. BC on the other hand...not so much.

I would much rather be taking a guy from I-AA Delaware who wasn't surrounded by one of the best teams in the country.

Look at the record

last year Flacco from Delaware, Ryan from BC both are instant hits.

2007 Jamarcus from powerhouse LSU hasn't done much, Brady Quinn at Notre Dame, I know they have been sucking, but they still recruit very well.

2006 you have Vince Young from Texas, Matt Leinart from USC, and who's the successful one? Cutler from Vanderbilt..

Eli went to Ole Miss, a good team, but in a strong SEC, he was certainly tested.

Rivers went to NC State, they're not that great.

Roethlisberger went to Miami of Ohio.

Kyle Boller went to CAl, Rex Grossman Florida. Not so good.

Carson Palmer is the exception.

Recent history doesn't favor the QBs from top schools.

Way to not take circumstance and situation into the factor here lol, that's one of the funniest things I've ever read you want me to pick it apart because I'm pretty sure you realize how flawed it is...

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 03:10 AM
I just don't see it as possible you're going to ask a team to give up basically 3 or 4 high picks, not to mention you just dropped below Cincinatti and Cleveland so it's risky.

If Cincy gave up on Palmer, I think that would be beyond stupid. I also don't know that the Browns would be willing to draft a QB after giving Anderson his fat sack o cash.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:11 AM
If Cincy gave up on Palmer, I think that would be beyond stupid. I also don't know that the Browns would be willing to draft a QB after giving Anderson his fat sack o cash.

I'm talking about them giving up their pick to a team that wants a QB.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 03:12 AM
I'm talking about them giving up their pick to a team that wants a QB.

That is much more logical than my thought. Thanks for clarifying.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:17 AM
Way to not take circumstance and situation into the factor here lol, that's one of the funniest things I've ever read you want me to pick it apart because I'm pretty sure you realize how flawed it is...

Ok lets see.

Russell got saddled with the Raiders, give him time. Though Ryan and Flacco both went to teams with terrible records last year. Vince Young and Matt Leinart though are both on teams that got to the 2nd round of the playoffs with them on the bench. Give me a good reason why circumstances have been against them succeeding when their teams are succeeding with them on the bench. While Cutler has been doing a pretty good job in Denver.

Boller and Grossman were both in big-time college programs and went to teams with solid defenses that just asked them to manage the games and they couldn't do that too well. Grossman got to a super bowl, but he's certainly not a big reason why they got that far. Boller has failed miserably and had Flacco step into roughly the same situation and do extremely well. So where's my obviously flawed logic at?

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:23 AM
Vince Young is from the spread, wanna quickly tell me the success rate of those QB's yea, that's also why thinking Thigpen is the answer is funnier than shit...just gloss over that though.

Matt Leinart is system limited he was drafted by Dennis Green to play in the WCO which he can do, when Whisenhunt took over and put in vertical passing Leinart couldn't play he doesn't have the arm, I don't see you mentioning that...

Boller was a 3rd round pick till he worked out and threw a ball 50 yards threw the uprights off his knees...He was the QB at Cal when Tedford got there and never had good numbers his career completion percentage was under 50...once again way to gloss over that.

Rex Grossman, a Florida Steve Spurrier QB what more can be said there?

Russell would be a top 5 pick basically in any year he entered the draft, sometimes they work out sometimes they don't but obviously being picked by the Raiders doesn't help.

And for your other comments saying Flacco from where he was from guess what, Flacco was the same thing Boller was a 3rd round pick that rose on workouts and arm strength those types of picks are extremely risky. Not to mention you have the questions of he transferred out because he couldn't be out Tyler Palko and playing where he did brings up the didn't face good competition question..

You're just glossing over a ton of stuff it's not simply big program small program.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:33 AM
my point is that the success of a QB is very much based on the quality of the offensive line. Heisman Trophy QB's don't have a high success rate because they basically have to have an amazing line to put up the numbers to win the trophy in the first place. Give me the guy that can win games, not put up ridiculous numbers. I want the guy who has experience with being pressured, having to move around in the pocket, not have playmakers that are far and away better than the defense they are facing. Give me the guy that has shown his toughness and ability to stand in the pocket, not the guy that put up big numbers at a football factory college.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:35 AM
I don't really see what the issue here is with the top 2 QB's this year they bring everything you can ask for.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:36 AM
I think Stafford is wayyy better than Sanchez. The SEC defenses are so tough, the guy has been tested.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:37 AM
I think Stafford is wayyy better than Sanchez. The SEC defenses are so tough, the guy has been tested.

Stafford earned the right to be drafted higher I said that before...but Sanchez is right behind him and has the potential to be just as good if not better, they are both better prospects than Sam Bradford is.

AustinChief
01-29-2009, 03:39 AM
......


And if you even mentioning taking a OT with the 3rd pick I'm gonna go apeshit on you.

I hate this.. but the FACT is... OT is probably the best VALUE at #3... even though it is stupid for US... it is damn hard to argue that there is ANY player (other than an OT) that is a good value at #3... ok maybe Stafford... and Sanchez MAY be ok... if he bucks the trend of junior QB busts...

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:41 AM
Still you shouldn't make a pick based on fear, what if you pass on Sanchez and he becomes a great player?

Then your franchise looks stupid.

Gil Brandt who worked for the Cowboys said Jimmy Johnson gave consideration to Tony Mandarich saying maybe he's the way to go maybe we should want to control the line and be physical.

And all the personnel people told him if you do that you're going to be thought of as the biggest laughing stock in the league.

And obviously they took Aikman.

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:45 AM
We could have had Flacco last year. Do we look stupid for going with Branden Albert?

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:49 AM
Still you shouldn't make a pick based on fear, what if you pass on Sanchez and he becomes a great player?

Then your franchise looks stupid.

Gil Brandt who worked for the Cowboys said Jimmy Johnson gave consideration to Tony Mandarich saying maybe he's the way to go maybe we should want to control the line and be physical.

And all the personnel people told him if you do that you're going to be thought of as the biggest laughing stock in the league.

And obviously they took Aikman.

It's not fear, it's playing the odds.

Mandarich was a roid riddled goon.

Personally If I was the chiefs I would try to trade down as much as we could, get as many picks as possible and then take James Lauranitis cause he seems to me to be the best bet to be a perennial pro bowler. Then with all those other picks you can go crazy taking risks and filling as many holes as possible. There's surely some decent QB prospects to be had in later rounds.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:54 AM
Who are these mythical QB's you speak of?

AustinChief
01-29-2009, 03:56 AM
It's not fear, it's playing the odds.

Mandarich was a roid riddled goon.

Personally If I was the chiefs I would try to trade down as much as we could, get as many picks as possible and then take James Lauranitis cause he seems to me to be the best bet to be a perennial pro bowler. Then with all those other picks you can go crazy taking risks and filling as many holes as possible. There's surely some decent QB prospects to be had in later rounds.

we CANT trade down... end of story... the MOST we could trade down is MAYBE 3 spots... and that is astonomically unlikely....

We are pretty much stuck at #3... and as much as I hate to agree with Mecca... Sanchez is prolly our best bet... AT THIS POINT... ALOT will change over the next few months.. and we may see a DE or NT rise enough to be worth the #3.... I certainly hope that is the case , because right now, the only "safe" pick is OT and as "safe" as that is... it sets us back yet another year...

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 03:57 AM
I'm Hoping someone wants Crabtree bad enough to trade up.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 03:59 AM
I still don't understand this QB fear, Sanchez is one of the best QB prospects you can ask for.

He's a better prospect than Sam Bradford who everyone here was creaming over.

Jim Jones
01-29-2009, 04:11 AM
James Lauranitis? Jeeeeeeeysus

Ultra Peanut
01-29-2009, 09:33 AM
We could have had Flacco last year. Do we look stupid for going with Branden Albert?Albert was as close to a lock as you can get, Flacco was a risk/reward FCS QB, and we were still waiting to see if Croyle could bring it. So no, we weren't stupid.

Now that we DO have a stud LT, one idea that may be good is to not draft ANOTHER FUCKING LT at #3 overall.

Ultra Peanut
01-29-2009, 09:35 AM
I still don't understand this QB fear, Sanchez is one of the best QB prospects you can ask for.

He's a better prospect than Sam Bradford who everyone here was creaming over.
But Big XII QBs

jeffp12
01-29-2009, 11:37 AM
Albert was as close to a lock as you can get, Flacco was a risk/reward FCS QB, and we were still waiting to see if Croyle could bring it. So no, we weren't stupid.

Now that we DO have a stud LT, one idea that may be good is to not draft ANOTHER ****ING LT at #3 overall.

Who's going to be our RT this year? how about RG? Our Offensive line was still crap this year with Albert, the right side didn't do much. I'd rather we get a stud DT or DE...

Frosty
01-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Who's going to be our RT this year? how about RG?

Yeah - god knows you can only get a quality RT or RG with a top 5 pick. :rolleyes:

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 12:03 PM
Who's going to be our RT this year? how about RG? Our Offensive line was still crap this year with Albert, the right side didn't do much. I'd rather we get a stud DT or DE...

First off, the right tackle and right guard positions (along with center) can be adequately addressed in rounds 2-5. Easily.

Furthermore, there are no "stud" DT's or DE's in this year's draft. The last "stud" DT was Glen Dorsey and the Chiefs got him.

QB HAS to be the pick #3.

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:07 PM
First off, the right tackle and right guard positions (along with center) can be adequately addressed in rounds 2-5. Easily.

Furthermore, there are no "stud" DT's or DE's in this year's draft. The last "stud" DT was Glen Dorsey and the Chiefs got him.

QB HAS to be the pick #3.
...and suppose Stafford and Sanchez go number one and two overall? It can't be QB or bust, a great GM has prepared for all scenarios.

ChiefsCountry
01-29-2009, 12:10 PM
...and suppose Stafford and Sanchez go number one and two overall? It can't be QB or bust, a great GM has prepared for all scenarios.

St. Louis will not take a QB.

ChiefsCountry
01-29-2009, 12:14 PM
This OL talk is driving me crazy. You can get great OL later in the draft. Szott was a 7th round pick. Shields was a 3rd. The whole freaking Patriots, Colts line was not made of first rounders. Take the QB first. You have to pay any QB a big salary no matter what. FA or draft. Its a given. And if you think G or C is more important than QB then you are freaking retard.

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:16 PM
St. Louis will not take a QB.

You still have to prepare for that scenario. A new head coach has no loyalty to their QB, regardless of price tag. Warner starting over Leinart ring any bells? Just sayin'.

I think it's all going to be irrelevant anyway, because I think Pioli wants Cassell.

ChiefsCountry
01-29-2009, 12:18 PM
I think it's all going to be irrelevant anyway, because I think Pioli wants Cassell.

No way does he trade for Cassell. I bet he doesnt he even sign away one Patriot starter.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 12:19 PM
You still have to prepare for that scenario. A new head coach has no loyalty to their QB, regardless of price tag. Warner starting over Leinart ring any bells? Just sayin'.

I think it's all going to be irrelevant anyway, because I think Pioli wants Cassell.

Warner's a Hall of Famer in waiting and he's playing in an offense designed for him.

Leinart was drafted to play in the WCO.

How many times does this need to be repeated?

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:25 PM
No way does he trade for Cassell. I bet he doesnt he even sign away one Patriot starter.

He was gushing over Cassell in the presser-he has first hand information about his skillset and might be willing to make a trade. I've also heard from some of my sources that we might consider going that route and using our top pick for defense, that's why I think Raji is the pick.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 12:28 PM
He was gushing over Cassell in the presser-he has first hand information about his skillset and might be willing to make a trade. I've also heard from some of my sources that we might consider going that route and using our top pick for defense, that's why I think Raji is the pick.

Considering there hasn't been one peep about a coaching hire, I seriously doubt your "sources" know a damn thing.

If Raji's the pick, I'm gonna fucking puke all over my television.

:Lin:

Frosty
01-29-2009, 12:31 PM
This OL talk is driving me crazy. You can get great OL later in the draft. Szott was a 7th round pick. Shields was a 3rd. The whole freaking Patriots, Colts line was not made of first rounders. Take the QB first. You have to pay any QB a big salary no matter what. FA or draft. Its a given. And if you think G or C is more important than QB then you are freaking retard.

I think the problem is that Chiefs fans have been watching then try to build the line with low round picks like Brett Williams (not that low, actually :mad:) and Jordan Black, so they think it can't be done that way.

What they aren't taking into account is that we no longer have a retard running the draft board.

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Warner's a Hall of Famer in waiting and he's playing in an offense designed for him.

Leinart was drafted to play in the WCO.

How many times does this need to be repeated?Warner being a HOFer is debateable-I don't think he's a lock.

Regarding your second comment...Again, he was still picked by a PREVIOUS REGIME and is a 1st round QB, who's riding the pine-I think that's further validates my point.

BigChiefFan
01-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Considering there hasn't been one peep about a coaching hire, I seriously doubt your "sources" know a damn thing.

If Raji's the pick, I'm gonna ****ing puke all over my television.

:Lin:Yes, Dane because we have no head coach, the player personnel department just ceased to exist.ROFL

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 12:51 PM
Yes, Dane because we have no head coach, the player personnel department just ceased to exist.ROFL

Well, BigRedChief has said his source doesn't know what's going on either due to how Pioli operates

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Warner being a HOFer is debateable-I don't think he's a lock.

Regarding your second comment...Again, he was still picked by a PREVIOUS REGIME and is a 1st round QB, who's riding the pine-I think that's further validates my point.

After the Cards win on Sunday, Kurt Warner is a HOFer. Period.

As to Leinart, there's no point to validate because you didn't say anything.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 03:27 PM
Yes, Dane because we have no head coach, the player personnel department just ceased to exist.ROFL

You don't have a source inside the Chiefs front office. I don't buy that for a second. NO ONE knows what's going on. It's like the mafia over there.

And there is absolutely NO WAY that YOU know what Scott Pioli is thinking with the #3 overall pick.

AustinChief
01-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Furthermore, there are no "stud" DT's or DE's in this year's draft. The last "stud" DT was Glen Dorsey and the Chiefs got him.

QB HAS to be the pick #3.

I wouldn't say that about DTs or DEs... we simply don't know yet.

I could see BJ Raji continue to rise... (not saying I am sold on him)

You just never know at this point.

Hell, we could pick Crabtree.

most LIKELY it is QB (Sanchez) but lets not act like we know enough to write that in stone.

DaneMcCloud
01-29-2009, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't say that about DTs or DEs... we simply don't know yet.

I could see BJ Raji continue to rise... (not saying I am sold on him)

You just never know at this point.

Hell, we could pick Crabtree.

most LIKELY it is QB (Sanchez) but lets not act like we know enough to write that in stone.

Having watched the Senior Bowl, the majority of the college bowls and the East-West Shrine Bowl, I'm pretty confident in claiming that there are no Terrell Suggs, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers type players that we know of in this draft.

There's probably a guy that will develop into something special but I don't think there's anyone ready to immediately contribute and add a minimum of 10 sacks. IF that guys exists, he's currently being overlooked.

Same for DT. Having seen Raji completely silenced in the Senior Bowl (despite the reports of strong practices) and the fact that he played in the Big East has me extremely skeptical of his abilities. Especially considering that Glen Dorsey was supposed to be the second coming of Warren Sapp (Yeah, yeah - I know Gunther sucked and Dorsey was playing out of position and blah, blah, blah).

I certainly don't see any immediate game-changing defensive lineman that are ready to contribute AND be a "stud" in game one.

IF the Chiefs choose that route, I hope I'm wrong.

ChiefRon
02-05-2009, 02:32 PM
The latest mock from www.walterfootball.com:

1. Sanchez, QB, USC
2. Michael Johnson, DE/OLB, Georgia Tech
3. Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama

I could live with that.

Coogs
02-05-2009, 02:39 PM
St. Louis will not take a QB.

But what if someone trades up in front of us with St. Louis? That could very well happen.

DaneMcCloud
02-05-2009, 03:00 PM
But what if someone trades up in front of us with St. Louis? That could very well happen.

That team would need to give up their entire draft to do so.

I don't think that happens.

Coogs
02-05-2009, 03:19 PM
That team would need to give up their entire draft to do so.

I don't think that happens.

If the Seahawks decide it is time to look to the future for Hasselback, it would possibly only cost them their 2nd round pick to jump over the Chiefs.

ChiefsCountry
02-05-2009, 04:58 PM
If the Seahawks decide it is time to look to the future for Hasselback, it would possibly only cost them their 2nd round pick to jump over the Chiefs.

Are two divisional rivals going to trade with each other?

Pestilence
02-05-2009, 05:00 PM
If the Seahawks decide it is time to look to the future for Hasselback, it would possibly only cost them their 2nd round pick to jump over the Chiefs.

Are two divisional rivals going to trade with each other?

Not only that...but it would cost them more than just their 2nd round pick to move up.

OnTheWarpath58
02-05-2009, 05:02 PM
Not only that...but it would cost them more than just their 2nd round pick to move up.

Yep.

800 points. Or the equivalent to the 21st pick in the draft.

Not happening.

Pestilence
02-10-2009, 10:23 AM
UPDATED as of 02/10/09

3. Mark Sanchez, QB, USC

34. Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati
It'll be interesting to see whom the Chiefs hire as their defensive coordinator. Scott Pioli has always drafted for the 3-4, so there's a good chance he brings in a guy who can coach that scheme.

If Pioli makes that move, he'll be busy hunting for players who can fit that system this April. Why not begin with the flexible Connor Barwin, who had 15 TFL, 11 sacks, seven passes broken up and three blocked kicks in 2008? Those 11 sacks were more than the total amount the entire Kansas City squad had all year (10)!

67. Antoine Caldwell, C, Alabama

Pestilence
02-10-2009, 10:31 AM
FWIW......

Kraig Urbik goes #65 to the Lions.
Eric Wood goes #96 to the Steelers.

If it were to go that way....then I would rather do this.

3. Mark Sanchez QB USC
34. Clint Sintim DE/OLB Virginia
67. Trade our 3rd round pick and 6th round pick to the Cardinals for the #63 pick and take Kraig Urbik G Wisconsin
98. Trade our 4th round pick and 7th round pick to the Titans for the #94 pick and their 7th round pick (#222) and take Eric Wood C Louisville

Pestilence
02-10-2009, 10:32 AM
That would put our o-line at:

Albert/Waters/Wood/Niswanger/Urbik

If we somehow grabbed Brown in FA then we wouldn't need to grab Wood in the 4th round and we could go DE.

tyton75
02-10-2009, 10:36 AM
really don't want to see us trading picks if at all possible.. we need players

but who knows after FA if we can fill some holes

Coogs
02-10-2009, 10:38 AM
Yep.

800 points. Or the equivalent to the 21st pick in the draft.

Not happening.


It is also several million dollars in savings for the Rams to move down 2 spots, and they could probably still get the guy they would want at #4, plus pick up a 2nd rounder as well. Could happen.

OnTheWarpath58
02-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Today's update:

R1: Mark Sanchez
R2: Connor Barwin
R3: Antoine Caldwell


They are adding the 4th round tomorrow.

Pestilence
02-10-2009, 01:25 PM
Today's update:

R1: Mark Sanchez
R2: Connor Barwin
R3: Antoine Caldwell


They are adding the 4th round tomorrow.

See post #229 :D

OnTheWarpath58
02-10-2009, 02:43 PM
See post #229 :D

Shit, sorry dude.

You posted while I was in class, and I didn't get caught back up.

My bad.

Pestilence
02-10-2009, 02:44 PM
It's no big deal....I'm having more fun reading the bullshit over at WPI.

Pestilence
02-11-2009, 10:08 AM
UPDATED FEB. 11th WITH THE 4TH ROUND:

3. Mark Sanchez/QB/USC
34. Conner Barwin/DE-OLB/Cincinnati
67. Antoine Caldwell/C/Arkansas
98. Darry Beckwith/ILB/LSU

Pestilence
02-11-2009, 10:13 AM
FWIW.....

I'd rather go with this:

3. Mark Sanchez/QB/USC
34. Clint Sintim/DE-OLB/Virginia
67. Trade #67 and #162 for the Cardinals #63. Take Kraig Urbik/G-T/Wisconsin
98. Andre Brown/RB/N.C. State

OnTheWarpath58
02-11-2009, 11:03 AM
FWIW.....

I'd rather go with this:

3. Mark Sanchez/QB/USC
34. Clint Sintim/DE-OLB/Virginia
67. Trade #67 and #162 for the Cardinals #63. Take Kraig Urbik/G-T/Wisconsin
98. Andre Brown/RB/N.C. State

I think I'd go this route, if it fell exactly as the mock states:

R1: Sanchez

R2: Try to leapfrog Detroit for Cushing, or stand pat and take Paul Kruger.

R3: Caldwell

R4: Zack Follett (assuming you take Kruger in R2)


Just to throw a R5 guy in there....Daniel Holtzclaw.

Mecca
02-11-2009, 11:05 AM
I think I'd go this route, if it fell exactly as the mock states:

R1: Sanchez

R2: Try to leapfrog Detroit for Cushing, or stand pat and take Paul Kruger.

R3: Caldwell

R4: Zack Follett (assuming you take Kruger in R2)


Just to throw a R5 guy in there....Daniel Holtzclaw.

If we took USC players with the 1st 2 picks I could just imagine the reaction...

OnTheWarpath58
02-11-2009, 11:19 AM
If we took USC players with the 1st 2 picks I could just imagine the reaction...

Fuck them.

What's your thoughts on what I'd do?

The 2nd round pick is the one I'm having the biggest problem with, if Heyward Bey is there, it's be hard to pass on him.

But I think Cushing or Kruger would be solid picks as well.

Mecca
02-11-2009, 11:21 AM
Well I don't think Brian Cushing is that far behind Aaron Curry as a prospect at SLB.

DaneMcCloud
02-11-2009, 11:36 AM
Fuck them.

What's your thoughts on what I'd do?

The 2nd round pick is the one I'm having the biggest problem with, if Heyward Bey is there, it's be hard to pass on him.

But I think Cushing or Kruger would be solid picks as well.

After the Combine, I have a hard time believing that Cushing will make it out of the first round.

The dude is supposedly a beast in the weight room. Couple that with his ability to tackle and contain, and he's likely a first rounder.

Pestilence
02-11-2009, 11:40 AM
If we took USC players with the 1st 2 picks I could just imagine the reaction...

Fuck them.

What's your thoughts on what I'd do?

The 2nd round pick is the one I'm having the biggest problem with, if Heyward Bey is there, it's be hard to pass on him.

But I think Cushing or Kruger would be solid picks as well.

Image the fall out if we took Sanchez 1st and Bey in the 2nd. All of the defense first people would fucking flip their lid.

OnTheWarpath58
02-11-2009, 11:43 AM
After the Combine, I have a hard time believing that Cushing will make it out of the first round.

The dude is supposedly a beast in the weight room. Couple that with his ability to tackle and contain, and he's likely a first rounder.

I agree, but like I said, if it fell exactly as this mock does, that's what I'd do.

DaneMcCloud
02-11-2009, 11:52 AM
I agree, but like I said, if it fell exactly as this mock does, that's what I'd do.

My bad.

I keep confusing these mocks with real-world observations.

Frosty
02-11-2009, 11:53 AM
Image the fall out if we took Sanchez 1st and Bey in the 2nd. All of the defense first people would ****ing flip their lid.

Man, that would be a great start, IMO.

You know, the defense should be a lot closer to improving. Look at all the high draft choices over on that side. A serviceable MLB and RDE in free agency would go a long way to the defense being at least adequate, combined with the (presumably) improved coaching.

Pestilence
02-11-2009, 12:02 PM
Fuck them.

What's your thoughts on what I'd do?

The 2nd round pick is the one I'm having the biggest problem with, if Heyward Bey is there, it's be hard to pass on him.

But I think Cushing or Kruger would be solid picks as well.

I could be happy with:

3. Mark Sanchez/QB/USC
34. Darrius Heyward-Bey/WR/Maryland
67. Antoine Caldwell/C/Arkansas
98. Zack Follett/OLB/California or Marcus Freeman/OLB/Ohio State

OnTheWarpath58
02-11-2009, 12:08 PM
I could be happy with:

3. Mark Sanchez/QB/USC
34. Darrius Heyward-Bey/WR/Maryland
67. Antoine Caldwell/C/Arkansas
98. Zack Follett/OLB/California or Marcus Freeman/OLB/Ohio State

All this concern over the OLB position, I could see Pioli signing a guy like Michael Boley from the Falcons, and using the pick elsewhere.