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View Full Version : Chiefs Tyler Thigpen (according to ron jaworski)


Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 12:57 PM
was just listening to tirico and van pelt (espn radio) a few moments ago--and we all know that jaws is a bit of a chiefs homer (one of the few respectable national sports media guys who is), but--he came out and said (I'm paraphrasing, as I wasn't at my laptop right at that moment) that 'the chiefs have found their qb.' he quoted some stats, said he'd analyzed the film on him, and that he looks like a keeper.

as much as I'd LOVE for this to be true--I wonder how much of his annointing thigpen is because of his homerism, and I wonder if he was saying the exact same things about derek anderson. granted, jaws has been a good judge of qbs (he was all over cutler when he came out, when most of us weren't that impressed). and maybe it's my eternal pessimism when it comes to the chiefs--(that, and wondering how he'd do outside of the spread). but could it be? could thigpen be 'the one?'

Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 12:57 PM
and, sorry--no link. it'll be on the tirico/van pelt podcast I'd assume.

CupidStunt
11-12-2008, 12:58 PM
We'll see. Personally, I'm happy to enjoy the production and wait before judging. It's too early.

Goapics1
11-12-2008, 12:58 PM
Print 'em.

Deberg_1990
11-12-2008, 01:01 PM
Nice.

BTW, i love Jaws show Playbook on EPSN. But they moved it to like the wee hours of Saturday/Sunday Morning.

WTF??

Sure-Oz
11-12-2008, 01:02 PM
He probably will start next year too if we get a QB anyway, i hope he keeps it up, but im still iffy about him.

Esp if he is just good in a spread

Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 01:04 PM
He probably will start next year too if we get a QB anyway, i hope he keeps it up, but im still iffy about him.

Esp if he is just good in a spread

ERG--rON jaworski. not rOM. goddamn.

and that's where I am on thigpen. I so WANT for him to be that QB. I want for him to be that qb for denver to hate like I hate elway. I want him to snap necks and cash checks in the afc west for the next 10-15 years. but I've been crushed one too many times to have any optimism . fuck the chiefs anyway.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-12-2008, 01:07 PM
People are iffy about him because he was a 7th round pick. It's totally understandable, but at the same time you have to see that the guy has shown more ability than Brodie Croyle did the entire time he was here. If Thigpen finishes the year how he's playing now, he deserves a chance to keep the job next year.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-12-2008, 01:07 PM
CHEETOS!!!!!!

Brock
11-12-2008, 01:09 PM
He's definitely got something. Chiefs fans are naturally going to be suspicious though.

Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 01:09 PM
CHEETOS!!!!!!

good one, brah!

milkman
11-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Nice.

BTW, i love Jaws show Playbook on EPSN. But they moved it to like the wee hours of Saturday/Sunday Morning.

WTF??

The NFL Matchup show used to be really good, with Jaworski breaking down film, but ESPN has become so self absorbed that you don't get that much of the breakdowns anymore.

Playbook on NFL Network is better now, even of the guys hosting are useless bastards.

milkman
11-12-2008, 01:12 PM
CHEETOS!!!!!!

I may have missed whatever this is about, but **** it.

Cheezits are better.

Damn good for nothing kid.

Pablo
11-12-2008, 01:13 PM
He's definitely got something. Chiefs fans are naturally going to be suspicious though.This.

Tyler Thigpen could end up winning out the rest of the season, and throw 30 TD's and uber Chiefs-Karma would somehow f*ck us in the ass...like he'd give up football in the offseason because he thinks he'd be a great Formula 1 driver...

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 01:13 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

KevB
11-12-2008, 01:17 PM
The progress of Thigpen means that if we don't get Stafford in the first, our franchise isn't set back. We still have a good option who very well could be "the guy". It's piece of mind that is quite comforting to me as a Chiefs fan.

beach tribe
11-12-2008, 01:21 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

Kind of makes us look smart going to the spread. I wonder what would have happend with Alex Smith had the 9ers done it with him.

Chief Faithful
11-12-2008, 01:22 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

I'll go a step further. Kentucky has long run the spread offense and one of its greatest disciples is sitting on the PS in New York. They could sign Andre Woodson off the PS now, Alex Smith in the off season as a FA, and with their current QB's including Brokie they would not have to draft a QB.

Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 01:24 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

this, brah.

milkman
11-12-2008, 01:27 PM
The progress of Thigpen means that if we don't get Stafford in the first, our franchise isn't set back. We still have a good option who very well could be "the guy". It's piece of mind that is quite comforting to me as a Chiefs fan.

And you don't use the other pieces of your mind, so it's all good, right?

MikeMaslowski
11-12-2008, 01:27 PM
This.

Tyler Thigpen could end up winning out the rest of the season, and throw 30 TD's and uber Chiefs-Karma would somehow f*ck us in the ass...like he'd give up football in the offseason because he thinks he'd be a great Formula 1 driver...


HAHAAHAHAAHAH................... I laugh but remember when Tony was gonna play basketball?

Frankie
11-12-2008, 01:30 PM
I am eating some crow on Thiggy. But I still suspect that by next year when DCs design better ways to stop the spread 'O' he will not be as effective. His rise may have enabled us to perhaps use our 2nd rounder on a "project" QB with great upside(Freeman?) without having to use our top pick on a QB. Thiggy might have earned his start for the '09 season while 'Freeman' is being polished for a year. Of course that scenario means we should hire a real QB coach instead of Curl.

MikeMaslowski
11-12-2008, 01:31 PM
This.

Tyler Thigpen could end up winning out the rest of the season, and throw 30 TD's and uber Chiefs-Karma would somehow f*ck us in the ass...like he'd give up football in the offseason because he thinks he'd be a great Formula 1 driver...

or when morton went to ufc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mniHJAQmNG8

smellypirateraider
11-12-2008, 01:33 PM
Michael Smith was quoted as saying the Chiefs have found their QBOTF. Hopefully he's right

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 01:35 PM
Michael Smith was quoted as saying the Chiefs have found their QBOTF. Hopefully he's right

nothing personal, but he knows less than claythan about football...

MikeMaslowski
11-12-2008, 01:39 PM
nothing personal, but he knows less than claythan about football...

true....i would listen to my wife more than i would listen to smith

Mr. Arrowhead
11-12-2008, 01:47 PM
I think the media loves Thigpen more than some chiefs fans, which is kind of weird

crazycoffey
11-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I think the media loves Thigpen more than some chiefs fans, which is kind of weird


subconciously preparing ourselves for the fall?

kcchiefsus
11-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I am eating some crow on Thiggy. But I still suspect that by next year when DCs design better ways to stop the spread 'O' he will not be as effective. His rise may have enabled us to perhaps use our 2nd rounder on a "project" QB with great upside(Freeman?) without having to use our top pick on a QB. Thiggy might have earned his start for the '09 season while 'Freeman' is being polished for a year. Of course that scenario means we should hire a real QB coach instead of Curl.

So you don't think that he will also continue to improve also? Maybe defenses will adjust to him better but he has only started 4 games. What if this is just the tip of the iceberg for him?

talastan
11-12-2008, 01:58 PM
I think the media loves Thigpen more than some chiefs fans, which is kind of weird

He's a feel good story waiting to happen. Seventh round pick who no one thought would ever develop takes the reins on his team and shows he has what it takes to be the team leader. Don't know if this will continue but that is what he's been showing us these past couple of games. :thumb:

Hope he is the real deal. Would love to see our Chiefs have their QBotF right here on our team already!!

Molitoth
11-12-2008, 02:00 PM
The NFL Matchup show used to be really good, with Jaworski breaking down film, but ESPN has become so self absorbed that you don't get that much of the breakdowns anymore.

Playbook on NFL Network is better now, even of the guys hosting are useless bastards.

So true, Jaws breaking down film is the best... I miss it.

HemiEd
11-12-2008, 02:05 PM
Tyler Thigpen deserves all the props he gets, and more. Putting up with Dick Curl, has to be similar to playing with one hand tied behind his back.

Frankie
11-12-2008, 02:14 PM
So you don't think that he will also continue to improve also? Maybe defenses will adjust to him better but he has only started 4 games. What if this is just the tip of the iceberg for him?

I've been wrong about thiggy before. I may be wrong here too. With rare exceptions like Brady, there is a reason some QBs are drafted in the 7th. That reason may not be lack of talent as much as it is lack of upside. I think the probability that Thigpen is at or close to his peak potential is more than his extended development. Again I've been wrong about him before, though.

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Michael Smith was quoted as saying the Chiefs have found their QBOTF. Hopefully he's right

and welcome to the planet....didn't mean to come off as a wise ass

Frankie
11-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Tyler Thigpen deserves all the props he gets, and more. Putting up with Dick Curl, has to be similar to playing with one hand tied behind his back.

My thought exactly.

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 02:16 PM
I think the media loves Thigpen more than some chiefs fans, which is kind of weird

the media doesn't have almost 20 years of Carl inflicted trauma

Mr. Plow
11-12-2008, 02:18 PM
I like Jaws, but wasn't he more of a Dick Vermeil fan than a fan of the Chiefs?

smellypirateraider
11-12-2008, 02:23 PM
and welcome to the planet....didn't mean to come off as a wise ass


No problem. I know M Smith is a hack but if you hear multiple analysts saying Thigpen is the real deal you might have to pay attention. I've read a few articles about him being qbotf. I'm not sold on him yet but am hoping he turns out to be decent. All I know is he surpassed what Croyle has done for the Chiefs

Mr. Plow
11-12-2008, 02:27 PM
and welcome to the planet....didn't mean to come off as a wise ass

Yeah, nobody is a wise ass at Chiefs Planet......

Alphaman
11-12-2008, 02:28 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

I like that approach. I would consider Chase Patton (backup at Mizzou) in the 6th or 7th round. Smart kid with a good arm who got beaten out by a good QB. Patton is 6-4 and has been in the spread the last 4 years.

milkman
11-12-2008, 02:28 PM
No problem. I know M Smith is a hack but if you hear multiple analysts saying Thigpen is the real deal you might have to pay attention. I've read a few articles about him being qbotf. I'm not sold on him yet but am hoping he turns out to be decent. All I know is he surpassed what Croyle has done for the Chiefs

I get what you're saying, but Brodie didn't set the bar to high.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 02:29 PM
I like Jaws, but wasn't he more of a Dick Vermeil fan than a fan of the Chiefs?

He played for Peterson in Philly and in KC.

Alphaman
11-12-2008, 02:31 PM
I am eating some crow on Thiggy. But I still suspect that by next year when DCs design better ways to stop the spread 'O' he will not be as effective.

That may be true. However, if Chan is wise he'd spend time studying Texas Tech, Mizzou and Florida (heck even talk to Leach, Pinkel and Meyer) to learn more nuances to running the spread, particularly in the run game and the o-line calls. While the DCs are catching up to this year's version, he could be on to the new and improved version.

eazyb81
11-12-2008, 02:34 PM
Heh. I remember posting a clip of Jaws last year saying Matt Ryan is the real deal and was comparable to Carson Palmer. Of course, the usual suspects ripped him on that call.....LOL.



I'm not sure if Jaws is a Chiefs homer, but I have no doubt that he knows his stuff when it comes to evaluating QBs.

StcChief
11-12-2008, 02:35 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.if we continue to run "the spread" having another "spread master" would be nice.

FishingRod
11-12-2008, 02:37 PM
If you take the 4 games he has started including the turd of a game he played against Atlanta and project those numbers over a 16 game season, he would have 28 TDs and 12 Ints. That would work just fine.

32-0 if you just use the last 3 ;)

B_Ambuehl
11-12-2008, 02:37 PM
It'll be hard to get him off the field, as you're not gonna find anything in the other Great white hypes that Thigpen can't do plus he's gonna have the benefit of starting most of an NFL season. Physically, he can throw the ball as hard as anyone and he's one of the more athletic quarterbacks in the NFL. Unless he starts sucking it up it'll be hard to get him off the field.

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 02:40 PM
No problem. I know M Smith is a hack but if you hear multiple analysts saying Thigpen is the real deal you might have to pay attention. I've read a few articles about him being qbotf. I'm not sold on him yet but am hoping he turns out to be decent. All I know is he surpassed what Croyle has done for the Chiefs

agreed

he has already lapped Croyle...big time....my hope for him - when arguing with the True Fans who insisted we should be playing Huard - was that he would eventually develop into a solid backup...but he's already done that...

the problem, aside from being a naturally skeptical chiefs fan, is that I have seen many QBs play well for a few games, sometimes a year even, only to magically return to their natural state of average-to-worseness...they catch some mojo and ride it until it is gone, and it never comes back...

worse, we have the first chance in near 20 years to draft the #1 QB, and this QB (Stafford) just happens to give me a big gay boner...I think he's a no-brainer QBOTF...

and well, you add it all up - plus the always too soon, and too fickle fawnings of the True Fans which should rightly scare any sane Chiefs fan - and I don't know what the hell to think...

philfree
11-12-2008, 02:41 PM
Everybody keeps talking about the spread and our QBOTF. Does everybody really think that Herm will employ the spread in 2009? Also is our version of the spread even close to the one they use in the college game? I would imagine that Herm will want to develop our power run game more this offseason and if he's successful we'll see less of the spread.

PhilFree:arrow:

Reerun_KC
11-12-2008, 02:42 PM
Everybody keeps talking about the spread and our QBOTF. Does everybody really think that Herm will employ the spread in 2009? Also is our version of the spread even close to the one they use in the college game? I would imagine that Herm will want to develop our power run game more this offseason and if he's successful we'll see less of the spread.

PhilFree:arrow:

Oh Noes, Herm said this is the offense, and Herms word is Gospel...

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 02:43 PM
Everybody keeps talking about the spread and our QBOTF. Does everybody really think that Herm will employ the spread in 2009? Also is our version of the spread even close to the one they use in the college game? I would imagine that Herm will want to develop our power run game more this offseason and if he's successful we'll see less of the spread.

PhilFree:arrow:

Did you bother reading the presser from yesterday?

He stated that this is the offense.

philfree
11-12-2008, 02:46 PM
Did you bother reading the presser from yesterday?

He stated that this is the offense.

No I didn't see the presser I was on the road on the way home from SD and a great Phesant hunt. Wow I guess I better go see what Herm had to say so I'm up to snuff.

PhilFree:arrow:

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 02:47 PM
No I didn't see the presser I was on the road on the way home from SD and a great Phesant hunt. Wow I guess I better go see what Herm had to say so I'm up to snuff.

PhilFree:arrow:

Get any pheasant?

I think someone linked the 11/11 presser.

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 02:48 PM
No I didn't see the presser I was on the road on the way home from SD and a great Phesant hunt. Wow I guess I better go see what Herm had to say so I'm up to snuff.

PhilFree:arrow:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=196556

chop
11-12-2008, 02:51 PM
Everybody keeps talking about the spread and our QBOTF. Does everybody really think that Herm will employ the spread in 2009? Also is our version of the spread even close to the one they use in the college game? I would imagine that Herm will want to develop our power run game more this offseason and if he's successful we'll see less of the spread.

PhilFree:arrow:

Maybe if Herm wants to be more of a power running team then he'll get lineman that will help him get there in the off season.

smellypirateraider
11-12-2008, 02:52 PM
I get what you're saying, but Brodie didn't set the bar to high.

Y, Croyle was a bum. Thigpen is all we got for now so I'm trying to remain optimistic.
It would have been nice to draft a qb last year so I wouldn't have to put my faith in Vikings castaway.

chop
11-12-2008, 02:54 PM
Y, Croyle was a bum. Thigpen is all we got for now so I'm trying to remain optimistic.
It would have been nice to draft a qb last year so I wouldn't have to put my faith in Vikings castaway.

Trent Green was anothers castaway before he found the right team and he worked out pretty good.

Plus, I don't think Croyle is a bum. The kid just can't stay healthy, JMO.

Delano
11-12-2008, 02:55 PM
Get any pheasant?

I think someone linked the 11/11 presser.

He'd have to be a terrible shot not to.

I was at a Game, Fish & Parks meeting this summer where they were all patting themselves on the back for the tremendous number of birds out there.

smellypirateraider
11-12-2008, 02:55 PM
agreed

he has already lapped Croyle...big time....my hope for him - when arguing with the True Fans who insisted we should be playing Huard - was that he would eventually develop into a solid backup...but he's already done that...

the problem, aside from being a naturally skeptical chiefs fan, is that I have seen many QBs play well for a few games, sometimes a year even, only to magically return to their natural state of average-to-worseness...they catch some mojo and ride it until it is gone, and it never comes back...

worse, we have the first chance in near 20 years to draft the #1 QB, and this QB (Stafford) just happens to give me a big gay boner...I think he's a no-brainer QBOTF...

and well, you add it all up - plus the always too soon, and too fickle fawnings of the True Fans which should rightly scare any sane Chiefs fan - and I don't know what the hell to think...


I think we def need to pickup 1-2 qbs next year, even if they're late rounders or via free agency. At least we'll have some new bodies to compete against thigpen, in case he does end up sucking wang.

KevB
11-12-2008, 03:04 PM
And you don't use the other pieces of your mind, so it's all good, right?

That's what I get for working and surfing at the same time. I think the problem is that I'm trying to use too many "peaces" at once.

SPATCH
11-12-2008, 03:11 PM
the last time that a really mobile quarterback won the super bowl was when steve young did it... and he was still a true pocket passer....

the college game has already moved toward duel-threat quarterbacks... maybe we're ahead of the game. i doubt it though. defenses in the NFL are just too fast...

peyton manning and tom brady run a completely different kind of spread offense than the typical college spread. That's because NFL defenses have the athletes to stop a college spread. I fear that it may be only a matter of time before they figure our's out...

time will tell, though.

WebGem
11-12-2008, 03:34 PM
lulz yo the cactus farted ty bro

ZootedGranny
11-12-2008, 03:36 PM
Here's the section from the show where Jaws speaks about Thigpen:

http://www.zshare.net/audio/5124678287861dc1/

Tirico: "...he played very well against the Chargers last week."

Jaws: "Mike...Pencil. Him. In. The Kansas City Chiefs have found their quarterback. Case closed. Book closed." "...he plays out of the shotgun, he reads coverage, I am really, really excited about this young quarterback nobody knows about."

Mecca
11-12-2008, 03:38 PM
You have to take Jaws with a grain of salt he loves all QB's.

LOCOChief
11-12-2008, 03:43 PM
The fact that he was "all over cutler when he came out" disqualifies him as cutler SUCKS ASS! Just like his weasel coach and the rest of that chicken shit organization.

Thig Lyfe
11-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Wow. There are few talking heads I trust, but Jaws is certainly one of them. If he says Thigpen is our QB, then that makes me even more likely to think he is.

I mean, by my avatar, obviously I like him a lot. But the issue is whether he can convert the potential he's shown into wins (when there's a little more talent surrounding him).

If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

I like this plan.

Thig Lyfe
11-12-2008, 03:52 PM
the problem, aside from being a naturally skeptical chiefs fan, is that I have seen many QBs play well for a few games, sometimes a year even, only to magically return to their natural state of average-to-worseness...they catch some mojo and ride it until it is gone, and it never comes back...

worse, we have the first chance in near 20 years to draft the #1 QB, and this QB (Stafford) just happens to give me a big gay boner...I think he's a no-brainer QBOTF...



I think that even if Thigpen is lights-out for the rest of the year, if we have the opportunity to take Stafford (which we won't), we take him. Drafting by need is what got us so shitty in the first place. One of the only good picks of the Vermeil era was LJ, and we took him when we still had Priest. He was the best available player.

Mecca
11-12-2008, 03:56 PM
I think that even if Thigpen is lights-out for the rest of the year, if we have the opportunity to take Stafford (which we won't), we take him. Drafting by need is what got us so shitty in the first place. One of the only good picks of the Vermeil era was LJ, and we took him when we still had Priest. He was the best available player.

Well we coulda had Troy Polamalu that year, but noo we had to pay the piece of shit safeties we had.

The_Doctor10
11-12-2008, 04:01 PM
The fact that he was "all over cutler when he came out" disqualifies him as cutler SUCKS ASS! Just like his weasel coach and the rest of that chicken shit organization.

Take the blinders off. You may not like the Broncos, but Cutler is probably the best young quarterback in the league. Cutler to Marshall (assuming Brandon stays out of trouble) will be one of the best combinations in the league for years to come.

There's like five QBs I'd take over Cutler: Brees, Manning, Brady, Romo, and Eli. Maybe throw in McNabb for six.

Zouk
11-12-2008, 04:05 PM
You have to take Jaws with a grain of salt he loves all QB's.

This is true. He also falls in love with some weird ones - I remember hearing him talk about Kellen Clemens like he was Johnny Unitas.

But I'm still excited about Jaws loving our guy.

Zouk
11-12-2008, 04:09 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.



I think that shoulder has been messed up too much. Consecutive surgeries put him in the Brodie Croyle category in my mind.

How about tossing a bunch of money to Matt Cassel and letting him have an open competition with Thigpen in training camp next summer? I like players with the Patriot scouting staff stamp of approval, and the Pats do ask him to do a lot of similar stuff to our passing offense. He's played pretty well lately.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 04:10 PM
How about tossing a bunch of money to Matt Cassel and letting him have an open competition with Thigpen in training camp next summer? I like players with the Patriot scouting staff stamp of approval, and the Pats do ask him to do a lot of similar stuff to our passing offense. He's played pretty well lately.

There's no way the Pats let him go.

Brady's had two surgeries already on his knee and he's far from penciled in as the opening day starter.

Zouk
11-12-2008, 04:12 PM
There's no way the Pats let him go.

Brady's had two surgeries already on his knee and he's far from penciled in as the opening day starter.

I think he would want a chance to start (I'm assuming Brady recovers normally). And we're one of the only places that he can get that. Plus we have much more cap flexibility than the Pats.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 04:14 PM
I think he would want a chance to start (I'm assuming Brady recovers normally). And we're one of the only places that he can get that. Plus we have much more cap flexibility than the Pats.

Not.

Gonna.

Happen.

Ultra Peanut
11-12-2008, 04:39 PM
This.

Tyler Thigpen could end up winning out the rest of the season, and throw 30 TD's and uber Chiefs-Karma would somehow f*ck us in the ass...like he'd give up football in the offseason because he thinks he'd be a great Formula 1 driver...And I would support that move, because I haven't had an American F1 driver to support since Scott Speed.

subconciously preparing ourselves for the fall?ugh, those fucking peruvian dogs are terrifying

milkman
11-12-2008, 04:42 PM
the last time that a really mobile quarterback won the super bowl was when steve young did it... and he was still a true pocket passer....

the college game has already moved toward duel-threat quarterbacks... maybe we're ahead of the game. i doubt it though. defenses in the NFL are just too fast...

peyton manning and tom brady run a completely different kind of spread offense than the typical college spread. That's because NFL defenses have the athletes to stop a college spread. I fear that it may be only a matter of time before they figure our's out...

time will tell, though.

Thigpen is mobile, but he isn't a run first QB.

MTG#10
11-12-2008, 04:46 PM
People are iffy about him because he was a 7th round pick. It's totally understandable, but at the same time you have to see that the guy has shown more ability than Brodie Croyle did the entire time he was here. If Thigpen finishes the year how he's playing now, he deserves a chance to keep the job next year.

Brodie never had a chance to show anything. Put Brodie in the spread and he would look awesome too.

Ultra Peanut
11-12-2008, 04:47 PM
Brodie never had a chance to show anything. Put Brodie in the spread and he would look awesome too.For three seconds. And then he would break his leg in three places by tripping over some grass.

MTG#10
11-12-2008, 04:48 PM
For three seconds. And then he would break his leg in three places by tripping over some grass.

Touche.

BigRock
11-12-2008, 04:59 PM
as much as I'd LOVE for this to be true--I wonder how much of his annointing thigpen is because of his homerism

Jaws was never big on Croyle.

Tribal Warfare
11-12-2008, 05:11 PM
People are iffy about him because he was a 7th round pick. It's totally understandable, but at the same time you have to see that the guy has shown more ability than Brodie Croyle did the entire time he was here. If Thigpen finishes the year how he's playing now, he deserves a chance to keep the job next year.

three things are bothering me about the Thigpen issue, if he has a bad game will he relapse back to how he played against Atlanta. The second is will he be able to adapt when the opposition gameplan's for him to counteract the spread. San Diego loaded 8 men in the box and forced him to pass against them. He's been having great 1st halfs and average 2nd halfs. The key theme is adaptability that Thigpen must have when the opposition is gameplanning against him.

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:15 PM
Average is being nice....in these last 2 weeks where people have been excited thinking the Chiefs are getting better they've scored a grand total of 9 second half points.

OnTheWarpath58
11-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Average is being nice....in these last 2 weeks where people have been excited thinking the Chiefs are getting better they've scored a grand total of 9 second half points.

How much of that do you put on Thigpen, and how much do you put on the coaching staff?

milkman
11-12-2008, 05:23 PM
Average is being nice....in these last 2 weeks where people have been excited thinking the Chiefs are getting better they've scored a grand total of 9 second half points.

You are letting your bias color your posts here.

I know you can see, if you choose to, that it's the Chiefs playing not to lose that is responsible for that.

Do I think that Thigpen and the Spread are the future?

I'm not sold.

I want Matt Stafford, but I'm not going to place blame on the wrong person for the Chiefs failures in the second half.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 05:23 PM
How much of that do you put on Thigpen, and how much do you put on the coaching staff?

I know this question isn't directed at me but it's on the coaching staff to make the necessary adjustments.

Of course it hasn't helped that the Chiefs lost their starting running back in each game, either.

Thigpen's certainly directed the offense well enough to get wins in each of the past 3 weeks.

The defense is the reason the Chiefs lost those games.

Not the offense.

Micjones
11-12-2008, 05:23 PM
How about the Chiefs overall production?

Sure we haven't had great Second Half numbers, but we've also been playing football without the team's best HB.

What more can you expect of this team than what they've done the last 3 weeks?
We scored 3 TD's against the Chargers on the road.
Sheesh...

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:26 PM
How much of that do you put on Thigpen, and how much do you put on the coaching staff?

A bit of both...

And honestly I don't even know if you can blame the defense they should be playing like the defense can't stop anyone. They weren't good to begin with now they have guys off the street playing.

Micjones
11-12-2008, 05:29 PM
A bit of both...

And honestly I don't even know if you can blame the defense they should be playing like the defense can't stop anyone. They weren't good to begin with now they have guys off the street playing.

We had this discussion a few days ago.

Thigpen hung three 6's on the board against the Chargers.
What more could you have asked him to do on Sunday?

We lost Jamaal Charles, Kolby Smith (the backup) is on IR, and Larry Johnson was serving out a suspension. We were left with a Runningback who made the team for what he can do on Special Teams NOT in the backfield.

Are you really going to hang this on Thigpen?

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:32 PM
We had this discussion a few days ago.

Thigpen hung three 6's on the board against the Chargers.
What more could you have asked him to do on Sunday?

We lost Jamaal Charles, Kolby Smith (the backup) is on IR, and Larry Johnson was serving out a suspension. We were left with a Runningback who made the team for what he can do on Special Teams NOT in the backfield.

Are you really going to hang this on Thigpen?

The team in general is bad but scoring 3 and then 6 points in the 2nd halfs of games is how you lose.

We're basically back to what we were before a team that blows leads.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 05:36 PM
The team in general is bad but scoring 3 and then 6 points in the 2nd halfs of games is how you lose.

We're basically back to what we were before a team that blows leads.

How you lose is by giving more points than you score.

The defense is clearly the sore spot on this team. Lack of depth (very obvious with the loss of Flowers and DJ) and an overall lack of talent.

The offense has played well enough to win.

The defense and special teams haven't.

reiko57
11-12-2008, 05:39 PM
they gave the job to croyle who accomplished a whole hell of alot less in his career than thigpen has already done

he has to be the guy untill he proves hes not consistantly, or someone better comes along (has to happen eventually)

Frankie
11-12-2008, 05:39 PM
The fact that he was "all over cutler when he came out" disqualifies him as cutler SUCKS ASS! Just like his weasel coach and the rest of that chicken shit organization.

As much as I wish you were right, I don't think Cutler sucks. Is he not one of NFL's highly rated QBs this year?

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 05:40 PM
I think that even if Thigpen is lights-out for the rest of the year, if we have the opportunity to take Stafford (which we won't), we take him. Drafting by need is what got us so shitty in the first place. One of the only good picks of the Vermeil era was LJ, and we took him when we still had Priest. He was the best available player.

end of the day, this is where I'll be in my thinking as well...

it's where I started, but i admit it is fun to imagine that Thigpen is the answer...


i also agree that we likely won't get to make this choice because of Detroit...

TRR
11-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Herm Edwards doesn't seem so sold on Thigpen just yet. It may just be me, but his comments regarding Ty isn't glowing. I'm almost positive that Herm hates the spread offense that KC is running right now, and it sounds like Thigpen may be missing something (at least in Herm's eyes) that we may not be aware of. (Kind of like the Gonzalez comment about Thigpen looking bad in practices.)

I can take this as a good thing because Thigpen does need to prove himself before being handed the reigns next season. He also needs to be more proficient when taking snaps from center. And maybe Herm is not as quick to jump out on a limb for Thigpen as he did for Brodie Croyle. Either way, I think Herm would be about as excited as us fans are about Thipgen's maturation.

picasso
11-12-2008, 05:42 PM
AND we were plus on turnovers in the last two games.
Everyone can blame the D all they want but the second half the coaching staff is coaching not to lose the lead causing them to lose the lead.
The defense is decimated but I thought they played darn good except for Legget.
You just can't have the D on the field the whole second half protecting a lead.

Frankie
11-12-2008, 05:43 PM
I think that even if Thigpen is lights-out for the rest of the year, if we have the opportunity to take Stafford (which we won't), we take him. Drafting by need is what got us so shitty in the first place. One of the only good picks of the Vermeil era was LJ, and we took him when we still had Priest. He was the best available player.

No, the best available player was Polamalu whom Pittsburgh took with our pick.

the Talking Can
11-12-2008, 05:44 PM
I think that shoulder has been messed up too much. Consecutive surgeries put him in the Brodie Croyle category in my mind.

How about tossing a bunch of money to Matt Cassel and letting him have an open competition with Thigpen in training camp next summer? I like players with the Patriot scouting staff stamp of approval, and the Pats do ask him to do a lot of similar stuff to our passing offense. He's played pretty well lately.

sure thing Carl, let's go sign another team's backup...that worked so well over the last 15 years....

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:44 PM
So if you think about it...the Chiefs in the last 2 games got 4 turnovers from Tampa and 2 from the Chargers...

Honestly this is a weird team, they won the turnover margin 3 straight games and still lost all of them.

Tribal Warfare
11-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Herm Edwards doesn't seem so sold on Thigpen just yet. It may just be me, but his comments regarding Ty isn't glowing. I'm almost positive that Herm hates the spread offense that KC is running right now, and it sounds like Thigpen may be missing something (at least in Herm's eyes) that we may not be aware of. (Kind of like the Gonzalez comment about Thigpen looking bad in practices.)

I can take this as a good thing because Thigpen does not to prove himself before being handed the reigns next season. He also needs to be more proficient when taking snaps from center. And maybe Herm is not as quick to jump out on a limb for Thigpen as he did for Brodie Croyle. Either way, I think Herm would be about as excited as us fans are about Thipgen's maturation.

I mentioned this before too, if one has followed Herm's comments and Gretz's articles the past month they haven't been really enthusiastic about Thigpen's play. Unlike Croyle where Gretz and Herm were pumping Brodie up every week

picasso
11-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Herm Edwards doesn't seem so sold on Thigpen just yet. It may just be me, but his comments regarding Ty isn't glowing. I'm almost positive that Herm hates the spread offense that KC is running right now, and it sounds like Thigpen may be missing something (at least in Herm's eyes) that we may not be aware of. (Kind of like the Gonzalez comment about Thigpen looking bad in practices.)

I can take this as a good thing because Thigpen does need to prove himself before being handed the reigns next season. He also needs to be more proficient when taking snaps from center. And maybe Herm is not as quick to jump out on a limb for Thigpen as he did for Brodie Croyle. Either way, I think Herm would be about as excited as us fans are about Thipgen's maturation.

That is the same perception they had with Gannon and look what he accomplished in his career.

Micjones
11-12-2008, 05:45 PM
The team in general is bad but scoring 3 and then 6 points in the 2nd halfs of games is how you lose.

We're basically back to what we were before a team that blows leads.

There were mistakes made in the game against the Bucs.
DJ's dropped INT. Gonzalez's TD. Bowe's critical drop on what would've been a 3rd Down conversion.

And in last week's game against the Chargers we had a whopping 13 yards on the ground in the 2nd Half. That's not Thigpen's fault sir.

JuicesFlowing
11-12-2008, 05:46 PM
end of the day, this is where I'll be in my thinking as well...

it's where I started, but i admit it is fun to imagine that Thigpen is the answer...


i also agree that we likely won't get to make this choice because of Detroit...

You never know, Detroit is so bad that they could mess that up even. Oh wait, Millen is gone. Nevermind.

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:47 PM
There were mistakes made in the game against the Bucs.
DJ's dropped INT. Gonzalez's TD. Bowe's critical drop on what would've been a 3rd Down conversion.

And in last week's game against the Chargers we had a whopping 13 yards on the ground in the 2nd Half. That's not Thigpen's fault sir.

That dropped INT was the Jets game....

If you go over those 3 games the Chiefs are I believe +8 with an INT return for a TD, I bet it would take awhile to find another team that pulled off +8 and had a defensive TD yet didn't win any of the games.

Frankie
11-12-2008, 05:48 PM
He's been having great 1st halfs and average 2nd halfs. The key theme is adaptability that Thigpen must have when the opposition is gameplanning against him.

Exactly my concern.

picasso
11-12-2008, 05:49 PM
That dropped INT was the Jets game....

If you go over those 3 games the Chiefs are I believe +8 with an INT return for a TD, I bet it would take awhile to find another team that pulled off +8 and had a defensive TD yet didn't win any of the games.

Exactly.

Micjones
11-12-2008, 05:52 PM
That dropped INT was the Jets game....

Touche.

If you go over those 3 games the Chiefs are I believe +8 with an INT return for a TD, I bet it would take awhile to find another team that pulled off +8 and had a defensive TD yet didn't win any of the games.

So wouldn't the responsibility have to go to the team?

I just can't see how you can be upset with a three TD-no INT day, against a division rival, on the road from your QB. Especially since no QB for this franchise had done that since 1996.

What more could he have done in your mind?

Mecca
11-12-2008, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=Mecca;5214285]That dropped INT was the Jets game....[/quote[]

Touche.



So wouldn't the responsibility have to go to the team?

Sure the team is bad but that's just another point of saying it isn't just entirely the defense sucking while the offense plays good.

When your defense is getting you 2 or more turnovers a game you should be able to win if your offense is atleast doing alright.

The Chiefs offense has been completely brutal in the 2nd halfs of games since they've been "better" so now instead of getting blown out we just lose games in the 2nd half.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-12-2008, 05:54 PM
If Thigpen continues to play well, I hope the Chiefs sign Alex Smith and take a 6th-7th round QB.

Smith may have sucked in the cesspool that is the San Francisco 49ers but he was the master of the spread and would be a great backup, IMHO.

Plus, he'll come cheap.

He was a master of the spread option/zone read system.

Totally different animal.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 05:56 PM
He was a master of the spread option/zone read system.

Totally different animal.

So you're saying it would probably be a bad acquisition?

Micjones
11-12-2008, 06:02 PM
Sure the team is bad but that's just another point of saying it isn't just entirely the defense sucking while the offense plays good.

You seem to be glossing over the fact that the Special Teams is another unit on this team that contributes to winning and losing. And in consecutive weeks there have been blunders that cost us points.

2 weeks ago it was Clifton Smith's return for a TD that swung the momentum. Last week it was a missed PAT that forced us to even consider a 2-point conversion at the end of regulation.

Don't undersell the significance of all three units' contributions along with coaching when you assess this team's performances week in and week out.

When your defense is getting you 2 or more turnovers a game you should be able to win if your offense is atleast doing alright.

That can be argued in last week's game.
Our offensive output in the Bucs game is normally enough to win with.

The Chiefs offense has been completely brutal in the 2nd halfs of games since they've been "better" so now instead of getting blown out we just lose games in the 2nd half.

Did you completely skip over the part where I said we had 13 rushing yards in the Second Half of the Charger game? You're gonna hang that on Thigpen?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-12-2008, 06:02 PM
So you're saying it would probably be a bad acquisition?

I don't know if it would be a bad acquisition, per ce, but Urban Meyer's offense just won't work in the NFL. There is too much of a delay whenever the QB is reading the interior blocking for the running game to work, and that's the entire engine that drives that O.

When Meyer was at Bowling Green, they were much more of a run-first team with Josh Harris. They were a pretty solid offense, and a nice surprise team out of the MAC. Then he moved to Utah, and Greg Brandon took over for him, and installed more of a traditional spread offense with Omar Jacobs. They went 11-2 and Jacobs threw for 41 TDs and 4 picks. It was the highest TD/Int ratio in NCAA history.

But if you look at what he did @ Utah with Smith and Florida, with Tebow, they run the ball 60% of the time, which works in college when you are going up against LBs who run a 5 flat and don't have good recognition skills, but will get you killed in the pros.

Von Dumbass
11-12-2008, 06:10 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Jaws loves every QB in the NFL. He rants and raves about Flacco, Ryan, Rivers, Cutler.... I'm sure he loved Matt Leinart too. I would like to see him rip a QB just one time.

Kyle DeLexus
11-12-2008, 06:15 PM
I have come to the conclusion that Jaws loves every QB in the NFL. He rants and raves about Flacco, Ryan, Rivers, Cutler.... I'm sure he loved Matt Leinart too. I would like to see him rip a QB just one time.

Yeah, sure. But Thigpen's America's greatest QB and he's our hero.

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 06:45 PM
three things are bothering me about the Thigpen issue, if he has a bad game will he relapse back to how he played against Atlanta. The second is will he be able to adapt when the opposition gameplan's for him to counteract the spread. San Diego loaded 8 men in the box and forced him to pass against them. He's been having great 1st halfs and average 2nd halfs. The key theme is adaptability that Thigpen must have when the opposition is gameplanning against him.

thats the COACH'S JOB.

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 06:47 PM
Average is being nice....in these last 2 weeks where people have been excited thinking the Chiefs are getting better they've scored a grand total of 9 second half points.

has he been average the past 3 weeks? no he's been a top 10 qb every week, rating wise.

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 06:50 PM
I know this question isn't directed at me but it's on the coaching staff to make the necessary adjustments.

Of course it hasn't helped that the Chiefs lost their starting running back in each game, either.

Thigpen's certainly directed the offense well enough to get wins in each of the past 3 weeks.

The defense is the reason the Chiefs lost those games.

Not the offense.

i can see that, also against the jets herm went conservative, against the bucs we got robbed on a bullshit Offensive PI on TG, and against the chargers a MISSED fucking EXTRA POINT lost that one. so thigpen has done everything to win the games, and should have. all 3 "should have" been wins

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 06:52 PM
So if you think about it...the Chiefs in the last 2 games got 4 turnovers from Tampa and 2 from the Chargers...

Honestly this is a weird team, they won the turnover margin 3 straight games and still lost all of them.

see above

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Look this is what i'm saying,
#1 lots point to cleveland and the anderson/quinn situation: anderson wasnt playing like he did last year, the browns PASSED on quinn, he fell they took him. NOT MUCH MONEY OUT.
#2 next year there will probably be more high rated QBs.
#3 IF thigpen plays well the last 7 games why not give him a chance?
We would be betting ONE year and not much money that he's "THE GUY" or we could bet 5-6 years and 60-70 million that stafford is. which bet is the better one to take??

TRR
11-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Look this is what i'm saying,
#1 lots point to cleveland and the anderson/quinn situation: anderson wasnt playing like he did last year, the browns PASSED on quinn, he fell they took him. NOT MUCH MONEY OUT.
#2 next year there will probably be more high rated QBs.
#3 IF thigpen plays well the last 7 games why not give him a chance?
We would be betting ONE year and not much money that he's "THE GUY" or we could bet 5-6 years and 60-70 million that stafford is. which bet is the better one to take??

It depends on whether or not the organization and the fans are ready to possibly endure another losing season with (and here is the big one) the possibility of going into the 2010 draft with no franchise QB either.

I am of the opinion that if Stafford is there, you make him the draft pick no matter how Thigpen plays the rest of the season. If Stafford isn't there, then BPA it is.

Bottom line is that going into the 2009-2010 season with Thigpen could end up much like going into this season with Croyle at the helm. By that I mean that it is a distinct possibility that the starting QB position may be up in the air again for another season. :shake:

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 07:22 PM
It depends on whether or not the organization and the fans are ready to possibly endure another losing season with (and here is the big one) the possibility of going into the 2010 draft with no franchise QB either.

I am of the opinion that if Stafford is there, you make him the draft pick no matter how Thigpen plays the rest of the season. If Stafford isn't there, then BPA it is.

Bottom line is that going into the 2009-2010 season with Thigpen could end up much like going into this season with Croyle at the helm. By that I mean that it is a distinct possibility that the starting QB position may be up in the air again for another season. :shake:

What does stafford guarantee? nothing. at least thigpen has played at this level and been at this level for 2 years. in 2010 ther should be more high level qbs in the draft right? stafford does NOT guarantee a winning record in 2009.


so like i said IF thigpen plays out the year well would you rather bet one year and quite possibly the league minimum, or 5-6 years and 60-70 mil? we'll never know what the right choice is until it happens, but like i said in another thread everything happens for a reason.

prhom
11-12-2008, 07:25 PM
If you take the 4 games he has started including the turd of a game he played against Atlanta and project those numbers over a 16 game season, he would have 28 TDs and 12 Ints. That would work just fine.

32-0 if you just use the last 3 ;)

Unfortunately, that also means we go 0-16 too... ;)

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 07:31 PM
Only Chiefs fans would bitch and complain about a QB suddenly thrust into the spotlight, only to have him put up Pro-Bowl numbers and lead a young offense to success.

A 24 year-old, 7th round waiver-wire acquisition to boot.

philfree
11-12-2008, 07:36 PM
We don't need to anoint anyone at this point. If we're truly trying to develop a QB we need to draft one in the 2009 draft. If not in the 1st round then in the 2nd or 3rd. Thigpen is the number one guy with the draft pick waiting in the wings. If Thigpen plays well enough to keep the job he does but if or when he falters we have a draft pick we've been grooming to step in and take over. Same holds true if Thigpen were to be injured. To make Thigpen our starter and start looking for only back up type QBs would be short sided.

PhilFree:arrow:

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 07:43 PM
We don't need to anoint anyone at this point. If we're truly trying to develop a QB we need to draft one in the 2009 draft. If not in the 1st round then in the 2nd or 3rd. Thigpen is the number one guy with the draft pick waiting in the wings. If Thigpen plays well enough to keep the job he does but if or when he falters we have a draft pick we've been grooming to step in and take over. Same holds true if Thigpen were to be injured. To make Thigpen our starter and start looking for only back up type QBs would be short sided.

PhilFree:arrow:

i totally agree with the bold part, i just dont think that we would HAVE to take a guy in the first just to be taking a guy in the first.
If thigpen were to work out, AND we picked up a middle LB in FA(Karlos Dansby anyone?) we would be WELL on our way. that would open the draft up immensely. we wouldnt pigeonhole ourselves as much. we would have the freedom to take BPA at needed positions. (dbs(cb and safety), lb, oline, DEFENSIVE END.)

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 07:44 PM
We don't need to anoint anyone at this point. If we're truly trying to develop a QB we need to draft one in the 2009 draft. If not in the 1st round then in the 2nd or 3rd. Thigpen is the number one guy with the draft pick waiting in the wings. If Thigpen plays well enough to keep the job he does but if or when he falters we have a draft pick we've been grooming to step in and take over. Same holds true if Thigpen were to be injured. To make Thigpen our starter and start looking for only back up type QBs would be short sided.

PhilFree:arrow:

I fully and completely disagree.

If Thigpen continues to play as well as he has in the past three weeks, there is absolutely no reason to spend a first day pick on a QB next year. They should draft another project QB in the 5th-7th rounds and sign a veteran, if Quinn Gray doesn't keep the job.

The Chiefs need MLB, OLB, DE, CB, RG, RT, RB and depth everywhere. Drafting a QB on the first day when you've already got your "Guy" is foolish.

Tribal Warfare
11-12-2008, 07:52 PM
thats the COACH'S JOB.



Coaches and QBs are in the same boat, because they are seen relatively as the leaders of the team, and if a defense has a solution to stop the spread it's up to the QB to audible out and run a different play on the fly.

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 07:56 PM
Coaches and QBs are in the same boat, because they are seen relatively as the leaders of the team, and if a defense has a solution to stop the spread it's up to the QB to audible out and run a different play on the fly.

here you are wrong bud. it's on the coaches, they are the ones to make the adjustments, hell thats their job.

philfree
11-12-2008, 07:58 PM
i totally agree with the bold part, i just dont think that we would HAVE to take a guy in the first just to be taking a guy in the first.
If thigpen were to work out, AND we picked up a middle LB in FA(Karlos Dansby anyone?) we would be WELL on our way. that would open the draft up immensely. we wouldnt pigeonhole ourselves as much. we would have the freedom to take BPA at needed positions. (dbs(cb and safety), lb, oline, DEFENSIVE END.)


So we agree for the most part. Like I said a QB in the 2nd or 3rd will do just fine. Maybe even a later round for that matter. And signing a FA LB is a good idea too. As much as we are building through the draft there is a point that we need to use free agency. A team just can't do it all through the draft. A FA LB and a DE in the 1st with a QB later on in the draft is just fine.

PhilFree:arrow:

Tribal Warfare
11-12-2008, 07:59 PM
here you are wrong bud. it's on the coaches, they are the ones to make the adjustments, hell thats their job.

It's on the QB too man, they are the general's of the offense it's their job to read and recognize defenses before the snap.

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 08:00 PM
So we agree for the most part. Like I said a QB in the 2nd or 3rd will do just fine. Maybe even a later round for that matter. And signing a FA LB is a good idea too. As much as we are building through the draft there is a point that we need to use free agency. A team just can't do it all through the draft. A FA LB and a DE in the 1st with a QB later on in the draft is just fine.

PhilFree:arrow:

AGREED PHIL. how far would that put ahead next year?
lightyears

JASONSAUTO
11-12-2008, 08:02 PM
It's on the QB too man, they are the general's of the offense it's their job to read and recognize defenses before the snap.

come on you're smarter than that, arent you? the guy has started FOUR games, THAT IS ON THE COACHES. now if he was 5 years in different story hell even 2 years in, but not 4 GAMES
its pretty obvious that you dont really like him, so you should stick to that.

philfree
11-12-2008, 08:06 PM
I fully and completely disagree.

If Thigpen continues to play as well as he has in the past three weeks, there is absolutely no reason to spend a first day pick on a QB next year. They should draft another project QB in the 5th-7th rounds and sign a veteran, if Quinn Gray doesn't keep the job.

The Chiefs need MLB, OLB, DE, CB, RG, RT, RB and depth everywhere. Drafting a QB on the first day when you've already got your "Guy" is foolish.

I think drafting a 1st day QB would be a great way to gain depth at the position and also add an insurance policy if Thigpen regresses at some point or becomes injured. It doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd rounder though. We go with an early 2nd day pick. At this point I don't think we "the guy" and have a Damon Huard type as a back up. As far as team needs are concerned I'm well aware of those. A pass rushing, QB sacking DE for the right side of our D would help our D tremendously and of course we still have alot of work to do on our O line as well.

PhilFree:arrow:

MahiMike
11-12-2008, 08:07 PM
RACK 'EM! I love Jaws so if he says it's so, it is.

philfree
11-12-2008, 08:09 PM
After everything I posted if we end drafting Stafford with our first pick I'll think it's good.


PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
11-12-2008, 08:11 PM
Finally! 10,000.

PhilFree:arrow:

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 08:11 PM
I think drafting a 1st day QB would be a great way to gain depth at the position and also add an insurance policy if Thigpen regresses at some point or becomes injured. It doesn't have to be a 1st or 2nd rounder though. We go with an early 2nd day pick. At this point I don't think we "the guy" and have a Damon Huard type as a back up. As far as team needs are concerned I'm well aware of those. A pass rushing, QB sacking DE for the right side of our D would help our D tremendously and of course we still have alot of work to do on our O line as well.

PhilFree:arrow:

The O-Line can be addressed on the second day, as should a developmental QB. Spending a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB IF Thigpen continues to play at this level is ridiculous when the Chiefs have so many needs.

Do you advocate that the Falcons pick a 1st QB, just in case Matt Ryan regresses or is injured? How about the Broncos? Ravens? Browns? That would be an insane waste of a valuable draft choice.

prhom
11-12-2008, 08:15 PM
The O-Line can be addressed on the second day, as should a developmental QB. Spending a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB IF Thigpen continues to play at this level is ridiculous when the Chiefs have so many needs.

Do you advocate that the Falcons pick a 1st QB, just in case Matt Ryan regresses or is injured? How about the Broncos? Ravens? Browns? That would be an insane waste of a valuable draft choice.

I keep thinking about the Chargers with Drew Brees and Philip Rivers (he was a first rounder right?) though. Maybe, just maybe you take the insurance against a Derek Anderson type situation. The worst thing that happens is you deal away either a proven starter or a highly coveted drafted QB.

philfree
11-12-2008, 08:20 PM
The O-Line can be addressed on the second day, as should a developmental QB. Spending a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB IF Thigpen continues to play at this level is ridiculous when the Chiefs have so many needs.

Do you advocate that the Falcons pick a 1st QB, just in case Matt Ryan regresses or is injured? How about the Broncos? Ravens? Browns? That would be an insane waste of a valuable draft choice.

LBs can be adressed on the 2nd day too. Or in free agency. It's all about best available combined with need when it comes to the draft. A top five pick in this draft if it's not Stafford is DE. If we don't go QB in the 2nd round I would be good if the best available were a RT or a G.
As far as the Falcons are concerned they just spent a 1st round pick on a QB so they'd be foolish to do it again in 2009. They should however make sure they have adequate depth at QB.

PhilFree:arrow:

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 08:20 PM
I keep thinking about the Chargers with Drew Brees and Philip Rivers (he was a first rounder right?) though. Maybe, just maybe you take the insurance against a Derek Anderson type situation. The worst thing that happens is you deal away either a proven starter or a highly coveted drafted QB.

Yeah but that was far different (and foolish, IMO).

Brees had been there for three years and the team wasn't improving. They had the number one overall pick but moved back to number 4 to grab Rivers (and picked up additional picks).

All Brees has done since he was dismissed from San Diego (and with absolutely no compensation), is become one of the best, if not THE best quarterbacks in the league.

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 08:22 PM
LBs can be adressed on the 2nd day too. Or in free agency. It's all about best available combined with need when it comes to the draft. A top five pick in this draft if it's not Stafford is DE. If we don't go QB in the 2nd round I would be good if the best available were a RT or a G.
As far as the Falcons are concerned they just spent a 1st round pick on a QB so they'd be foolish to do it again in 2009. They should however make sure they have adequate depth at QB.

PhilFree:arrow:

Phil, if you spend a 2nd round pick on a QB when you already have a franchise QB, your roster better be loaded with talent. The Chiefs roster is barren beyond its starters and many of the starters need to be replaced.

Choosing a QB with a top 5 pick in the 2nd round when the Chiefs have holes nearly everywhere would just about be the dumbest draft move they've ever made. You'd essentially be expecting your 2nd round QB to start in 2010.

Why?

TRR
11-12-2008, 08:22 PM
What does stafford guarantee? nothing. at least thigpen has played at this level and been at this level for 2 years. in 2010 ther should be more high level qbs in the draft right? stafford does NOT guarantee a winning record in 2009.


so like i said IF thigpen plays out the year well would you rather bet one year and quite possibly the league minimum, or 5-6 years and 60-70 mil? we'll never know what the right choice is until it happens, but like i said in another thread everything happens for a reason.

I'm not really talking about a winning record with Stafford (although I do think he is good enough to give KC a shot). I'm talking about having an ANSWER at QB. Is there a guarantee, no...there never is. But Stafford would be the guy for the next 5 years (because of the investment). Thipgen could be forgotten after 3 games (because there is no investment). At this point, I just want the answer. A solidified answer!

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 08:27 PM
At this point, I just want the answer. A solidified answer!

You'll have your answer on 12/29/08.

prhom
11-12-2008, 08:28 PM
Yeah but that was far different (and foolish, IMO).

Brees had been there for three years and the team wasn't improving. They had the number one overall pick but moved back to number 4 to grab Rivers (and picked up additional picks).

All Brees has done since he was dismissed from San Diego (and with absolutely no compensation), is become one of the best, if not THE best quarterbacks in the league.

I guess I thought they got something from NO when they got rid of him. If they didn't, then we should definitely not try to copy that scenario!

prhom
11-12-2008, 08:29 PM
You'll have your answer on 12/29/08.

The answer is 42

Red Beans
11-12-2008, 08:30 PM
Does anyone remember the Grbac/Gannon fiasco. We win with Gannon, but Grbac has the contract and the Mcdonalds endorsement so he starts once he's back from injury. Now I am all for somone retaining their job after an injury. But Gannon had that feel to him, that passion. Like you knew if it we're on his shoulders he's carrying the damn team like Atlas. Considering if Thigpen continues his meteroric rise and we still take a first day QB. We run the risk of having to play someone due to contract. Now we all know this is stupid but it is the way it works the majority of the time...

philfree
11-12-2008, 08:32 PM
Phil, if you spend a 2nd round pick on a QB when you already have a franchise QB, your roster better be loaded with talent. The Chiefs roster is barren beyond its starters and many of the starters need to be replaced.

Choosing a QB with a top 5 pick in the 2nd round when the Chiefs have holes nearly everywhere would just about be the dumbest draft move they've ever made. You'd essentially be expecting your 2nd round QB to start in 2010.

Why?

We did a pretty good job at finding talent all through the 2008 draft so why can't we do it agian? There will be good LBs in the 3rd round as well as good RBs ect. Same goes for later rounds. IMO we have a chance to really develop a franchise QB. Thigpen is part of it but drafting Stafford should also be part of it. Saying Thigpen is beyond the shadow of a doubt "the guy" after only eleven starts and passing on a Blue Chip QB Prosepect is foolish IMO. It's gonna take more than 11 Thigpen starts to convince me that he is "the guy".


PhilFree:arrow:

DaneMcCloud
11-12-2008, 09:33 PM
We did a pretty good job at finding talent all through the 2008 draft so why can't we do it agian? There will be good LBs in the 3rd round as well as good RBs ect. Same goes for later rounds. IMO we have a chance to really develop a franchise QB. Thigpen is part of it but drafting Stafford should also be part of it. Saying Thigpen is beyond the shadow of a doubt "the guy" after only eleven starts and passing on a Blue Chip QB Prosepect is foolish IMO. It's gonna take more than 11 Thigpen starts to convince me that he is "the guy".


PhilFree:arrow:

Notice how I mentioned "IF" in every post? IF Thigpen continues to play extremely well, it would be FOOLISH to spend a first or second round draft choice on a QUARTERBACK.

The Chiefs won't be a in a position to draft Stafford anyway so if that's your thinking, forget about it.

Detroit will take him in heartbeat.

Tribal Warfare
11-12-2008, 09:34 PM
Notice how I mentioned "IF" in every post? IF Thigpen continues to play extremely well, it would be FOOLISH to spend a first or second round draft choice on a QUARTERBACK.

The Chiefs won't be a in a position to draft Stafford anyway so if that's your thinking, forget about it.

Detroit will take him in heartbeat.

Don't underestimate how shitty their line is they could easily go for an OT too.

banyon
11-12-2008, 09:50 PM
I'm for the Green Bay plan here. Hope that it works out, but draft another QB in Rds 2-3 just in case.

Iowanian
11-12-2008, 09:50 PM
I'd like to see it be true, but like Brock said, I'm a skeptical Chiefs fan.

Its one thing to work well in a spread offense, but how can he perform with an implemented system? Long term once defenses have some film on him?

I think his mobility and decision making have been good, he's got a nice arm, and the playing time is going to give him great experience and help the team know what they have in him.

I've said it before, and like Dane said, If the 9ers are done with Alex Smith, I think he'd make a great risk in signing.

Regardless if they feel Thigpen can compete as a starter, or is a valid #2, the Chiefs HAVE to bring in at least 1 legitimate QB/prospect and probably 2 QBs.

Its not like the Chiefs are lacking in positions to fill/improve this offseason.

banyon
11-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Notice how I mentioned "IF" in every post? IF Thigpen continues to play extremely well, it would be FOOLISH to spend a first or second round draft choice on a QUARTERBACK.

The Chiefs won't be a in a position to draft Stafford anyway so if that's your thinking, forget about it.

Detroit will take him in heartbeat.

Yeah, they got rid of Matt Millen 1 year too soon for us, otherwise, they might've taken another WR in front of us at #1.

Ebolapox
11-12-2008, 10:19 PM
The answer is 42

how many roads must a man walk down?

ceebz
11-12-2008, 11:37 PM
The reason this team struggles in the 2nd half is because the offense becomes so conservative. Yes, i know they are still throwing the ball, but, it's all shorts passes. Really safe stuff. Slants, swing passes, quick outs to Gonzo, etc...

Herm has proved you can sit on a lead even when running the spread.

boogblaster
11-12-2008, 11:49 PM
Herm knows sittin' ....

KCJohnny
11-13-2008, 06:02 AM
People are iffy about him because he was a 7th round pick. It's totally understandable, but at the same time you have to see that the guy has shown more ability than Brodie Croyle did the entire time he was here. If Thigpen finishes the year how he's playing now, he deserves a chance to keep the job next year.

Kurt Warner was not drafted. Brady was a 6th rounder. Trent Green was a walk on FA. Sometimes the experts are wrong.

JASONSAUTO
11-13-2008, 07:52 AM
I keep thinking about the Chargers with Drew Brees and Philip Rivers (he was a first rounder right?) though. Maybe, just maybe you take the insurance against a Derek Anderson type situation. The worst thing that happens is you deal away either a proven starter or a highly coveted drafted QB.
MAJOR DIFFERENCE HERE: brees hadnt played well before they drafted rivers

beach tribe
11-13-2008, 07:56 AM
I still just can't believe that we may have found our guy. This stuff just never happens to the Chiefs. I'll be a full believer if he's still playing well this time next season, but if he is, it's a true sign that the Chiefs luck has changed.

KCJohnny
11-13-2008, 08:02 AM
I still just can't believe that we may have found our guy. This stuff just never happens to the Chiefs. I'll be a full believer if he's still playing well this time next season, but if he is, it's a true sign that the Chiefs luck has changed.

The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

chiefs1111
11-13-2008, 08:16 AM
Notice how I mentioned "IF" in every post? IF Thigpen continues to play extremely well, it would be FOOLISH to spend a first or second round draft choice on a QUARTERBACK.

The Chiefs won't be a in a position to draft Stafford anyway so if that's your thinking, forget about it.

Detroit will take him in heartbeat.

To bad Millen isn't still there he would be dumb and pass on him......

Darth CarlSatan
11-13-2008, 09:32 AM
The progress of Thigpen means that if we don't get Stafford in the first, our franchise isn't set back. We still have a good option who very well could be "the guy". It's piece of mind that is quite comforting to me as a Chiefs fan.

WORD.

BigChiefFan
11-13-2008, 09:40 AM
I think it's funny that many have Stafford as the top dog. Just wait until the combine. Things will change. He looks like he could be a good QB, but I don't have him as the highest rated collegiate QB at this point. His accuracy is shaky and accuracy is one of the most important intangiables, IMO. I predict Bradford gets drafted BEFORE Stafford.

Darth CarlSatan
11-13-2008, 09:43 AM
I think it's funny that many have Stafford as the top dog. Just wait until the combine. Things will change. He looks like he could be a good QB, but I don't have him as the highest rated collegiate QB at this point. His accuracy is shaky and accuracy is one of the most important intangiables, IMO. I predict Bradford gets drafted BEFORE Stafford.

:toast:

beach tribe
11-13-2008, 09:45 AM
I think it's funny that many have Stafford as the top dog. Just wait until the combine. Things will change. He looks like he could be a good QB, but I don't have him as the highest rated collegiate QB at this point. His accuracy is shaky and accuracy is one of the most important intangiables, IMO. I predict Bradford gets drafted BEFORE Stafford.

Stafford will blow Bradford away at the combine.

Darth CarlSatan
11-13-2008, 09:52 AM
Stafford will blow Bradford away at the combine.

Can someone direct me to the Temple Of Stafford? I haven't performed my yearly slaughter/sacrifice of a lamb to ensure a bountiful harvest.

Plus, I need to brush up on my Stafford Hymn; you know, the one that sounds just like "Krishna...Hari-Krishna...Krishna-Krishna", except the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Stafford replaces "Krishna".

:rolleyes::evil::rolleyes:

Brock
11-13-2008, 09:53 AM
I think it's funny that many have Stafford as the top dog. Just wait until the combine. Things will change. He looks like he could be a good QB, but I don't have him as the highest rated collegiate QB at this point. His accuracy is shaky and accuracy is one of the most important intangiables, IMO. I predict Bradford gets drafted BEFORE Stafford.

"His accuracy is shaky", LOL

beach tribe
11-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Can someone direct me to the Temple Of Stafford? I haven't performed my yearly slaughter/sacrifice of a lamb to ensure a bountiful harvest.

Plus, I need to brush up on my Stafford Hymn; you know, the one that sounds just like "Krishna...Hari-Krishna...Krishna-Krishna", except the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Stafford replaces "Krishna".

:rolleyes::evil::rolleyes:

I'm telling you, Bradford is going to be exposed at the combine.

Darth CarlSatan
11-13-2008, 09:59 AM
I'm telling you, Bradford is going to be exposed at the combine.

That's fine with me, as I want neither of them.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2008, 11:29 AM
Kurt Warner was not drafted. Brady was a 6th rounder. Trent Green was a walk on FA. Sometimes the experts are wrong.

Dumbest. Argument. EVER.

RustShack
11-13-2008, 12:02 PM
I'm telling you, Bradford is going to be exposed at the combine.

In a way, but Bradford will try not to hurt his stock by refusing to do a lot of workouts.

Garcia Bronco
11-13-2008, 12:47 PM
was just listening to tirico and van pelt (espn radio) a few moments ago--and we all know that jaws is a bit of a chiefs homer (one of the few respectable national sports media guys who is), but--he came out and said (I'm paraphrasing, as I wasn't at my laptop right at that moment) that 'the chiefs have found their qb.' he quoted some stats, said he'd analyzed the film on him, and that he looks like a keeper.

as much as I'd LOVE for this to be true--I wonder how much of his annointing thigpen is because of his homerism, and I wonder if he was saying the exact same things about derek anderson. granted, jaws has been a good judge of qbs (he was all over cutler when he came out, when most of us weren't that impressed). and maybe it's my eternal pessimism when it comes to the chiefs--(that, and wondering how he'd do outside of the spread). but could it be? could thigpen be 'the one?'

Jaws was a "Chiefs Homer" because of Vermeil, and I don't think that has anything to do with Tyler. I watched him last week and he's the real deal IMO.

Mecca
11-13-2008, 12:53 PM
Can someone direct me to the Temple Of Stafford? I haven't performed my yearly slaughter/sacrifice of a lamb to ensure a bountiful harvest.

Plus, I need to brush up on my Stafford Hymn; you know, the one that sounds just like "Krishna...Hari-Krishna...Krishna-Krishna", except the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Stafford replaces "Krishna".

:rolleyes::evil::rolleyes:

There is no way shape or form anyone will perform like Stafford at the combine, he has the tools everyone looks for if anything he'll make peoples jaws drop.

Also for that other post about accuracy, I'm sure anyone's accuracy would look shaky when you're comparing it to Sam Bradford's stat line which involves throwing screen passes and to guys so wide open any scrubs could succeed in the offense.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Jaws was a "Chiefs Homer" because of Vermeil, and I don't think that has anything to do with Tyler. I watched him last week and he's the real deal IMO.

Nope.

He was a Chiefs "Homer" because he played for Peterson in Philadelphia and Kansas City.

I'm sure Vermeil has a little to do with it but he's never forgotten about the Chiefs and Peterson.

dallaschiefsfan
11-13-2008, 12:57 PM
We'll see. Personally, I'm happy to enjoy the production and wait before judging. It's too early.

THIS

MikeMaslowski
11-13-2008, 12:58 PM
Dumbest. Argument. EVER.

Really?

The Earth is flat.

Jews must die because they are a lesser race.

Duck and cover will work against a nuclear attack.

American-Japanese must be jailed because of Pearl Harbor.

No child left behind is a good thing.

We need to trade Jared Allen because he is a bad seed....

Seems that EVER may be a bit to strong of a word..............

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Really?

The Earth is flat.

Jews must die because they are a lesser race.

Duck and cover will work against a nuclear attack.

American-Japanese must be jailed because of Pearl Harbor.

No child left behind is a good thing.

We need to trade Jared Allen because he is a bad seed....

Seems that EVER may be a bit to strong of a word..............

This is a football topic, n00b.

If you want to talk world politics and issues, go to the DC forum.

Mecca
11-13-2008, 01:02 PM
Say what you want but I don't think Jared Allen is worth what he's making...this team would be better off today if they'd notice what players aren't deserving of new contracts because we have a couple of them still on the team.

Darth CarlSatan
11-13-2008, 01:14 PM
There is no way shape or form anyone will perform like Stafford at the combine, he has the tools everyone looks for if anything he'll make peoples jaws drop.

Also for that other post about accuracy, I'm sure anyone's accuracy would look shaky when you're comparing it to Sam Bradford's stat line which involves throwing screen passes and to guys so wide open any scrubs could succeed in the offense.

Well good luck to him in Detroit. I'd rather have your college team's QB anyway.
He's not a toothpick like Bradford/McCoy, and he's not a fluffy baby-fat bunnie like Shaftord.

Dude's tough and in good shape.

SPATCH
11-13-2008, 01:14 PM
This is a football topic, n00b.

If you want to talk world politics and issues, go to the DC forum.

ooooohhhhhhhh snaapppp!!!

MikeMaslowski
11-13-2008, 01:17 PM
This is a football topic, n00b.

If you want to talk world politics and issues, go to the DC forum.

points can't be proven in a world of baloons......

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2008, 01:19 PM
points can't be proven in a world of baloons......

Your and idiot.

Welcome.

MikeMaslowski
11-13-2008, 01:21 PM
Your and idiot.

Welcome.

and apparently I cannot spell balloons..... thank you for the welcome.....

Ebolapox
11-13-2008, 05:46 PM
Jaws was a "Chiefs Homer" because of Vermeil, and I don't think that has anything to do with Tyler. I watched him last week and he's the real deal IMO.

I somewhat agree that vermiel led to some of jaws' chiefs homerdom. however, he ended his career here, fwiw. that plays a role too (I'd assume)

Ebolapox
11-13-2008, 05:48 PM
shit. dammit, dane, stick to hollywood and stop scooping me, brah.

Geason Noceur
11-13-2008, 08:45 PM
There is no way shape or form anyone will perform like Stafford at the combine, he has the tools everyone looks for if anything he'll make peoples jaws drop.

I have to agree with this. Stafford is going to help his draft status at the combine. Every single camp he's ever been to he has outshined the competition, and it's not even close. He went to a camp with Tebow, Locker, Freeman, etc. and all the evaluators said that it was Stafford and then everyone else. This past summer he was a counselor at the Manning Passing Academy, and the attendees said that he looked better throwing the ball than everyone else, including Eli and Peyton.

Even Coach Mark Richt, who coached two Heisman winners, said that Stafford is the most talented QB he has ever coached. Also, Coach Richt was teammates with Elway, Marino and Kelly, and he has said that Stafford is just as talented as those three.:eek:

I'm not saying he's as good or will be as good as those guys, but comments like that should give folks an idea of the level of talent and potential we're talking about here. I can't wait to see how he does at the combine.

DaneMcCloud
11-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Even Coach Mark Richt, who coached two Heisman winners, said that Stafford is the most talented QB he has ever coached. Also, Coach Richt was teammates with Elway, Marino and Kelly, and he has said that Stafford is just as talented as those three.

You are smokin' crack, n00b.

He spent a few days TRYING OUT for teams in which those guys were solid starters.

JFC.

Geason Noceur
11-14-2008, 01:31 AM
You are smokin' crack, n00b.

He spent a few days TRYING OUT for teams in which those guys were solid starters.

JFC.

What does those guys being solid starters have to do with anything? Mark Richt was a backup to Jim Kelly for several years, and even though he was cut after Elway and Marino were signed, he was around them long enough to recognize what a talented QB looked like. I doubt that anyone had to be around guys like Elway and Marino for years or even months before they realized that those guys were talented QBs.:rolleyes: