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Mr. Laz
11-16-2008, 02:31 PM
1. RDE (no pass rush whatsoever)
2. RT (McIntsuck gives it up at least 3/4 times every game)
3. MLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle!!)
4. LDE (Hali should be a backup)
5. OLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle)
6. QB (thiggy looks good but ....... )
7. Center (Niswanger just can't seem to get any push at all)
8. CB (Flowers is hasty,Carr is a viable nickle, we need an athletic #1 guy)
9. Safety (Morgan? McGraw? geesh ... we need a stud back there)
10. RG/DT a tie ... we still need more talent in our interior lines


opinions?

Mecca
11-16-2008, 02:34 PM
RT 2nd really?

If this team used a 1st round pick on a RT I'd lose my mind.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 02:35 PM
If this team had even an average front 7, they win at least 3 of the last four games.

RustShack
11-16-2008, 02:36 PM
I think we have bigger needs than replacing Hali right now. Niswanger is another player we can get away with without replacing this year. Carr isn't a nickle, thats why Flowers used to play nickle when we went to that when Surtain started. I wouldn't give up on Morgan yet either, hes only a rookie...

You would think that someone with as many posts as you would know a thing or two about football and rookies. Just because they don't look great their rookie years doesn't mean they wont emerge in another year or two like most other football players do.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 02:37 PM
RT 2nd really?

If this team used a 1st round pick on a RT I'd lose my mind.

You're stretching. He didn't say use a first round pick on a RT and you can;t deny we have a gaping hole on the right side of our line.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 02:37 PM
You're stretching. He didn't say use a first round pick on a RT and you can;t deny we have a gaping hole on the right side of our line.

Sure but we have other more important positions with worse players at them.

DaneMcCloud
11-16-2008, 02:38 PM
The three biggest needs are DE, MLB and RT.

From there it's OLB, RG, C, and CB.

RustShack
11-16-2008, 02:39 PM
The three biggest needs are DE, MLB and RT.

From there it's OLB, RG, C, and CB.

:clap:

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 02:39 PM
Sure but we have other more important positions with worse players at them.

More important positions, yes. Worse players? That's debatable. Other than RE and probably MLB, I don't see where we have a worse player than McIntosh.

suds79
11-16-2008, 02:40 PM
Remember when last year everybody said we needed to get about 2-3 new starters for the O-line?

Carl & Herm essentially didn't address that outside of Albert in the draft and here with the same thing and it sucks.

Center, probably RG & RT could all use replacements.

Mr. Laz
11-16-2008, 02:41 PM
RT 2nd really?

If this team used a 1st round pick on a RT I'd lose my mind.
did i say we should take a RT with our 1st round pick?

please .... don't start with you twisted,bullshit analysis of how if it's our 2nd need and all the RDE are gone then that means i think we should take a RT

you always yell about not drafting for need yet your gonna bring this bullshit up



i didn't say that, dumbass

but the biggest need on defense is RDE and the biggest need on offense is RT.

but it doesn't mean you bypass all draft slotting to take the need

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 02:42 PM
Remember when last year everybody said we needed to get about 2-3 new starters for the O-line?

Carl & Herm essentially didn't address that outside of Albert and here we are same thing and it sucks.

Center, probably RG & RT could all use replacements.

Don't forget about Waters.

Unless we want to go through another Wille Roaf situation.

Other than Albert, there's not one guy on the OL you can COUNT on for 2009.

And that's coming from a fan of Herb Taylor.

Mr. Laz
11-16-2008, 02:43 PM
The three biggest needs are DE, MLB and RT.

From there it's OLB, RG, C, and CB.

you could of just said you agreed with me :D

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 02:44 PM
The three biggest needs are DE, MLB and RT.

From there it's OLB, RG, C, and CB.

No doubt.

Mr. Laz
11-16-2008, 02:45 PM
:clap:
so he says the bascially the same thing as i do ... you applaud him and give me this
You would think that someone with as many posts as you would know a thing or two about football and rookies.

*cough*fuckyou*cough*

|Zach|
11-16-2008, 02:46 PM
I agree with all of this except for the defensive secondary. I think we are set in the back of our defense. We need 1 maybe 2 DE's.

MIAdragon
11-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Brian Orakpo

Brandon Spikes

Trevor Canfield

Mr. Laz
11-16-2008, 02:49 PM
you know ...... fuck you guys LMAO

dane said almost exactly the same thing as me, you bastards.

Laz ---- Dane
1. RDE - DE
2. RT - MLB
3. MLB - RT
4. LDE - OLB
5. OLB - RG
6. QB - C
7. Center - CB
8. CB
9. Safety
10. RG/DT

Rausch
11-16-2008, 02:50 PM
I think it's FUCKING AWESOME that after drafting a safety damned near every year in the 3rd round or above we STILL DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING LEGIT PROBOWL FUCKING PLAYERS AT THE FUCKING POSITION!

AWESOME!

DaneMcCloud
11-16-2008, 02:51 PM
I think it's FUCKING AWESOME that after drafting a safety damned near every year in the 3rd round or above we STILL DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING LEGIT PROBOWL FUCKING PLAYERS AT THE FUCKING POSITION!

AWESOME!

Morgan will be good. His health has affected his growth this season but he will be a good one.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 02:53 PM
Morgan will be good. His health has affected his growth this season but he will be a good one.

I'll bet you my avatar for a year we draft a safety in the first four rounds.

pr_capone
11-16-2008, 02:54 PM
1. RDE (no pass rush whatsoever)
2. RT (McIntsuck gives it up at least 3/4 times every game)
3. MLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle!!)
4. LDE (Hali should be a backup)
5. OLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle)
6. QB (thiggy looks good but ....... )
7. Center (Niswanger just can't seem to get any push at all)
8. CB (Flowers is hasty,Carr is a viable nickle, we need an athletic #1 guy)
9. Safety (Morgan? McGraw? geesh ... we need a stud back there)
10. RG/DT a tie ... we still need more talent in our interior lines


opinions?

1. DE (L or R)
2. LB (Outside/Mike)
3. RT (I would like someone to be picked up and have them compete with Herb for the starting spot)
4. RG (Jones plays at about the same level at G as did Welbourne, post roids suspension)
5. C (I like Niswanger but he is too tall to play C and gets no push off the line because of it. He is a smart guy, going to be a doctor post NFL, maybe he can try at G?)
6. K (I've been saying this all year. If there is a sure thing at K available when we pick in the 3rd or 4th round... we better damn well take him)
7. S ( I'm just not convinced that Page & Pollard are gonna pan out. Get another safety and let the 4 of them fight it out)
8. CB (Carr and Flowers have shown loads of promise. still, we are in need of a nickle and I would not mind getting someone who could possibly even fight for a starting spot. 3 way competition and let them sort it out as to who starts)
9. LS
10. Special Team Players (I would love for the Chiefs to pick up a couple of guys... even if they are "specialists")

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 02:56 PM
Morgan will be good. His health has affected his growth this season but he will be a good one.

Damn good thing. Too bad he's too small to take Pollard's spot. Pollard's play makes me cringe. He can't tackle aguy 1 on 1 unless it's right after aguy catches a ball, and doesn't see him coming, and sometimes he can't even pull that off(see Eddie Royal)

Mecca
11-16-2008, 02:56 PM
I think it's FUCKING AWESOME that after drafting a safety damned near every year in the 3rd round or above we STILL DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING LEGIT PROBOWL FUCKING PLAYERS AT THE FUCKING POSITION!

AWESOME!

Can we draft Taylor Mays now?

the Talking Can
11-16-2008, 02:57 PM
1. QB
2. head coach
3. defensive coordinator
4. DE (two, probably)
5. RT
6. MLB
7. RG
8. OLB
9. Safety
10. RB

Coach
11-16-2008, 02:58 PM
Milkman and I discussed that option that Taylor should be given a shot as a center.

Micjones
11-16-2008, 02:59 PM
The Chiefs biggest needs next season will be DE and MLB.
Nothing in the cupboard there. No one to evaluate.

Right Guard and Right Tackle fall right behind those two spots, but...
We have a couple young guys there we must assess before the year's out.

The next 7 games this coaching staff needs to evaluate Richardson and Taylor on the Right Side of that line. See what they have. It's possible that they could fill in well at RG/RT. It is an absolute priority for this team to see what they have at those two spots. That will make our off-season program easier to figure out come the opening of the Free Agency period.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:00 PM
The Chiefs biggest needs next season will be DE and MLB.
Nothing in the cupboard there. No one to evaluate.

Right Guard and Right Tackle fall right behind those two spots, but...
We have a couple young guys there we must assess before the year's out.

The next 7 games this coaching staff needs to evaluate Richardson and Taylor on the Right Side of that line. See what they have. It's possible that they could fill in well at RG/RT.

You know they won't do that so you might aswell not even ask.

Cosmos
11-16-2008, 03:00 PM
If Herb Taylor is a RT then RG becomes a bigger need that RT.

A RG that can run block....

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 03:02 PM
Can we draft Taylor Mays now?

Yeah we need a safety, but worse than a pass rusher, or MLB?......please.

Micjones
11-16-2008, 03:03 PM
You know they won't do that so you might aswell not even ask.

I'm trying my best to stay positive about this football team.
The three biggest jobs for this coaching staff the rest of the year is to keep a close eye on Thigpen's progress to determine if he's their starter next year and to evaluate Richardson and Taylor.

If I can identify that as a priority for this football team...
They have to know this is vital to having a successful off-season program.

Please Herm...
Put Richardson and Taylor on the field the rest of the way and see what these players have. If they don't have it in them... We'll know it and have to identify a RG/RT in the draft and FA.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:03 PM
Yeah we need a safety, but worse than a pass rusher, or MLB?......please.

I was being kind of a smartass but it depends what pick we have and who the other players are.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Can we draft Taylor Mays now?

Spending a top 5 pick on a safety...brilliant.

Micjones
11-16-2008, 03:05 PM
Upgrades at certain positions will have to wait.
Niswanger needs to get another year. We can't afford to add Center to our list of needs for next year. Same thing with Safety. Say what you will about Pollard and Page, but they do make plays. And you invested a pick in Morgan. I think Safety can wait too. Would be nice to add another Corner, but I would want a veteran guy in the mix. Carr and Flowers are my starters next year.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:06 PM
Spending a top 5 pick on a safety...brilliant.

I make exceptions for very very rare players....

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:07 PM
I make exceptions for USC players....

FYP

Spending a top 5 pick on a safety who isn't a playmaker or gamechanger is silly.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:09 PM
FYP

Spending a top 5 pick on a safety who isn't a playmaker or gamechanger is silly.

If you really play that I favor USC players card you don't pay much attention.

And I've explained to you 52 times why Mays doesn't have 10 INT's. Do you have a thick skull?

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:12 PM
At this point, while I'd like to test players on the o-line, the #1 priority is to get Thigpen out of this season alive. The o-line needs improvement, but they're playing well enough to keep Thigpen on his feet.

I don't see any value in Richardson and i'm surprised so many keep pushing for him to start. The Chiefs have been quick to play young players. If he's not on the field, I guarantee it's because he's not very good. Says a lot when the Chiefs are willing to switch our emergency backup LT to RT because they don't trust Richardson.

The good news is, we've cut down our priority list significantly. We went into the season with 13 immediate needs, and I think we'll end up the season with about 5 (only 3 of them being desperate needs--MLB, RDE, and at least one very good right-side o-lineman). The rest of our needs are secondary--we could use upgrades in those areas, but it's not going to break our football team if we don't.

I'm trying my best to stay positive about this football team.
The three biggest jobs for this coaching staff the rest of the year is to keep a close eye on Thigpen's progress to determine if he's their starter next year and to evaluate Richardson and Taylor.

If I can identify that as a priority for this football team...
They have to know this is vital to having a successful off-season program.

Please Herm...
Put Richardson and Taylor on the field the rest of the way and see what these players have. If they don't have it in them... We'll know it and have to identify a RG/RT in the draft and FA.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:13 PM
If you really play that I favor USC players card you don't pay much attention.

And I've explained to you 52 times why Mays doesn't have 10 INT's. Do you have a thick skull?

I know what you said. But you can only justify taking very very rare safety prospects that high, players like Sean Taylor who have the physcial potential but also the ability to have game changing impact on the game. Taylor Mays is big and fast, but he's not worth a top 10 pick.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:14 PM
I don't see any value in Richardson and i'm surprised so many keep pushing for him to start. The Chiefs have been quick to play young players. If he's not on the field, I guarantee it's because he's not very good. Says a lot when the Chiefs are willing to switch our emergency backup LT to RT because they don't trust Richardson.

Considering who coaches this team, that might be the single dumbest thing ever said on this forum.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:14 PM
Upgrades at certain positions will have to wait.
Niswanger needs to get another year. We can't afford to add Center to our list of needs for next year. Same thing with Safety. Say what you will about Pollard and Page, but they do make plays. And you invested a pick in Morgan. I think Safety can wait too. Would be nice to add another Corner, but I would want a veteran guy in the mix. Carr and Flowers are my starters next year.

I don't think safety is nearly as much of a priority.

As I've always said, safeties are the players hurt the most when your front 7 doesn't do their job. When you don't have a pass rush, your safeties have to guard a lot more field. When you don't fill in your gaps, then safeties (who are supposed to be the last line of defense) end up becoming the first line of defense.

I agree. Safety is a secondary need. I think that our safeties would improve markedly if our front 7 did their job.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:15 PM
I know what you said. But you can only justify taking very very rare safety prospects that high, players like Sean Taylor who have the physcial potential but also the ability to have game changing impact on the game. Taylor Mays is big and fast, but he's not worth a top 10 pick.

Sean Taylor also had a hard time adapting because he was a retard that knew nothing of scheme discipline and just freelanced...

Every single SC player gets this knock "oh why do his stats suck" because it's the best god damn defense in college football and they all play their assignments and have discipline.

Hell the USC defense might be better than the Chiefs defense is.

pr_capone
11-16-2008, 03:16 PM
Upgrades at certain positions will have to wait.
Niswanger needs to get another year. We can't afford to add Center to our list of needs for next year. Same thing with Safety. Say what you will about Pollard and Page, but they do make plays. And you invested a pick in Morgan. I think Safety can wait too. Would be nice to add another Corner, but I would want a veteran guy in the mix. Carr and Flowers are my starters next year.

I have to disagree.

If we are gonna be a team that wants to close out close games and can actually convert at 3rd & 1. I want the ability to run up the middle to get the 1st and run out the clock at the end of the game.

Niswanger simply does not provide any sort of consistent push in run blocking and does not inspire any confidence in pass blocking.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:16 PM
I don't think safety is nearly as much of a priority.

As I've always said, safeties are the players hurt the most when your front 7 doesn't do their job. When you don't have a pass rush, your safeties have to guard a lot more field. When you don't fill in your gaps, then safeties (who are supposed to be the last line of defense) end up becoming the first line of defense.

I agree. Safety is a secondary need. I think that our safeties would improve markedly if our front 7 did their job.

In a cover 2 scheme...your safeties have immense pressure on them...especially in todays game with pass catching TE's everywhere and teams constantly in 3 wide.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:18 PM
Can we draft Taylor Mays now?

NEIN!:cuss:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9951/gtfo12zb1.jpg

chiefsfan1963
11-16-2008, 03:19 PM
Add to the list new coaching staff, new front office, and new owner. I am not particular what order they come! :cuss:

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:20 PM
NEIN!:cuss:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9951/gtfo12zb1.jpg

LOL, I wonder what'll happen when he's a superstar and people look back at this...

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:22 PM
Considering who coaches this team, that might be the single dumbest thing ever said on this forum.

The Chiefs have started Carr and Flowers over Surtain, Albert over McIntosh, cut Sams and Novak, demoted Devard Darling, demoted Alfonso Boone, they're testing out both Savage and Robinson at returner, pushed Napoleon Harris out for Pat Thomas, pushed Edwards and Reed out for Tank and Dorsey.

Not all of those moves panned out. But you pretty much have no argument if you're suggesting that the Chiefs haven't given lots of opportunities for young players to win jobs, and haven't pushed players who underachieve out of the starting lineup (when there's a halfway adequate replacement for him).

Richardson isn't starting because he's not very good. If you think that's dumb, perhaps you should ask why a left tackle from a big-time football program fell all the way to the 6th round. There are 31 other teams that agree that the guy isn't very good.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:23 PM
LOL, I wonder what'll happen when he's a superstar and people look back at this...

I'd love a superstar.

But we always draft the Molly Shannon type and not the Polamalu type...

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:24 PM
In a cover 2 scheme...your safeties have immense pressure on them...especially in todays game with pass catching TE's everywhere and teams constantly in 3 wide.

That's true, but you can't do it without any help. The safeties have a lot of field to cover as is. It doesn't help when a QB has all day for WRs to explode deep and it doesn't help when the safeties are doing the job that the front 7 should be doing.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Well they also refuse to play Herb Taylor....

I think the Chiefs refuse to play anyone else on the line because they seem to think the same guys playing together is more important than benching a dude for blowing.

CupidStunt
11-16-2008, 03:24 PM
Mays will never be a superstar. And then you'll probably make embarrassing excuses for him and his "scheme discipline," too.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:25 PM
I'd love a superstar.

But we always draft the Molly Shannon type and not the Polamalu type...

How many times have you seen Mays play...honest question.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:25 PM
Richardson was a guard, FWIW.

At Clemson? He was a LT there.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:25 PM
Mays will never be a superstar. And then you'll probably make embarrassing excuses for him and his "scheme discipline," too.

Ah cool, why don't you argue with me about the Hali Cromartie thing some more too and tell me how wrong I was...

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:25 PM
How many times have you seen Mays play...honest question.

None.

Honest answer.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:26 PM
At Clemson? He was a LT there.

You were right. I thought he played RG at Clemson, but when I looked it up after I made the post, I found out that I was wrong, so that's why I tried to withdraw my previous comment.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:26 PM
Well they also refuse to play Herb Taylor....

I think the Chiefs refuse to play anyone else on the line because they seem to think the same guys playing together is more important than benching a dude for blowing.

That may be so, but they're rotating him in for snaps at RT. Richardson isn't even sniffing the field. There's probably a reason for that.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:26 PM
Sean Taylor also had a hard time adapting because he was a retard that knew nothing of scheme discipline and just freelanced

Sean Taylor also ended being one of the best safeties in the league before he died. He was playing superbly his last year.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:27 PM
Ah cool, why don't you argue with me about the Hali Cromartie thing some more too and tell me how wrong I was...

Yet, he was right about Woodson, where you did believe Woodson was a 1st round player.

Just sayin....

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:27 PM
None.

Honest answer.

Well he's 6'3, 230lbs...and runs a 4.3.....he's been starting at SC since his true freshman season.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:28 PM
Well they also refuse to play Herb Taylor....

I think the Chiefs refuse to play anyone else on the line because they seem to think the same guys playing together is more important than benching a dude for blowing.

Holy $#it I agree with you.

You advocating moving Herb to RT?

I mean, not a real risk there, honestly. Herb can suck for a lot less a year...

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:28 PM
I think its obvious, with a top 5 pick we will not take a RT, C or G nor does it make sense to take an LB that high. The best QB should go to the lions so we will,or should I say better, grab a DE with our 1st pick. After that O line is the top priority,

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:28 PM
Yet, he was right about Woodson, where you did believe Woodson was a 1st round player.

Just sayin....

You win some you lose some......atleast I didn't say Woodson was a WR like that one dude did.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:28 PM
Ah cool, why don't you argue with me about the Hali Cromartie thing some more too and tell me how wrong I was...

Cromartie is so awesome that he's being outplayed by Quentin Jammer and rookie Antoine Cason. He's an athletic dude, but he still can't cover anyone.

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 03:29 PM
Ah cool, why don't you argue with me about the Hali Cromartie thing some more too and tell me how wrong I was...

How is this an argument? Cromartie was gone. For 50 billionth time.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:29 PM
I think its obvious, with a top 5 pick we will not take a RT, C or G nor does it make sense to take an LB that high. The best QB should go to the lions so we will,or should I say better, grab a DE with our 1st pick. After that O line is the top priority,

How many games do you think the Chiefs are going to win...when I say Taylor Mays that's more of a tongue in cheek smartass post I think he'll be a great player but that becomes more of an option if the Chiefs fuck around and end up picking 7th.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Holy $#it I agree with you.

You advocating moving Herb to RT?

I mean, not a real risk there, honestly. Herb can suck for a lot less a year...

I'm advocating moving Herb Taylor to C.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Well he's 6'3, 230lbs...and runs a 4.3.....he's been starting at SC since his true freshman season.

Well, I can't comment on his ability to produce at the next level. I know nothing about the guy.

I can say Carl is going nowhere. Herm is going nowhere. Thum is going nowhere.

2 of those 3 have sucked butt drafting safeties for around a decade.

At this point I'd just prefer to not draft one because that's more likely than replacing them with someone who can...

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:31 PM
How is this an argument? Cromartie was gone. For 50 billionth time.

Did you miss those days when people tried to say Hali was actually better than him?

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm advocating moving Herb Taylor to C.

Damn.

For a minute there....almost.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Well, I can't comment on his ability to produce at the next level. I know nothing about the guy.

I can say Carl is going nowhere. Herm is going nowhere. Thum is going nowhere.

2 of those 3 have sucked butt drafting safeties for around a decade.

At this point I'd just prefer to not draft one because that's more likely than replacing them with someone who can...

Also SC runs a hybrid cover 2 so he already understands the principles of the defense the Chiefs run.

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:33 PM
How many games do you think the Chiefs are going to win...when I say Taylor Mays that's more of a tongue in cheek smartass post I think he'll be a great player but that becomes more of an option if the Chiefs **** around and end up picking 7th.

In the unlikely event of a trade back disregaurd my last post. FWIW I think they will win 2 more.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:33 PM
Damn.

For a minute there....almost.

Well, Rudy at 6'4" is too tall to be a C, and I'm not too overly impressed with him at the C position. I think he can play the G position w/o any trouble.

Taylor, on the other hand, is a idealistic C. In order to be a solid center, one must have leverage. Rudy didn't have much leverage, but Taylor has shown great leverage during his time at the RT position.

And I don't see Taylor as a "protypical" RT type of a player.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:34 PM
In the unlikely event of a trade back disregaurd my last post. FWIW I think they will win 2 more.

So we're gonna pick like 6th.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:35 PM
I think its obvious, with a top 5 pick we will not take a RT, C or G nor does it make sense to take an LB that high. The best QB should go to the lions so we will,or should I say better, grab a DE with our 1st pick. After that O line is the top priority,

LBs and Safeties are often taken in that range if they are an exceptional talent. The Packers don't regret for a second taking AJ Hawk, and in hindsight, Jerod Mayo and Patrick Willis are both top 5 calibre--I'm sure there are lots of teams that really regret not valuing those guys higher.

You don't take a LB that high only because he's the best in his class, but you do if you think he's going to be a difference-maker.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:35 PM
Well they also refuse to play Herb Taylor....

I think the Chiefs refuse to play anyone else on the line because they seem to think the same guys playing together is more important than benching a dude for blowing.

Exactly.

Christ, we're talking about a coach that was going to start an 800 year old Eddie Kennison and a guy who's out of the league over Dwayne Bowe from Day One last year.

Thank God Kennison got hurt, or Bowe may have rarely seen the field.

Unfortunately, McIntosh has somehow stayed healthy this year - that seems to be the only way Taylor is going to see any time at RT, where he belongs - for now.

The last 6 games should be played like preseason. Get these guys some work and evaluate for 2009. McIntosh and Jones/Smith bring nothing to this OL, other than sacks and 3 yard losses.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:36 PM
Well, Rudy at 6'4" is too tall to be a C, and I'm not too overly impressed with him at the C position. I think he can play the G position w/o any trouble.

Taylor, on the other hand, is a idealistic C. In order to be a solid center, one must have leverage. Rudy didn't have much leverage, but Taylor has shown great leverage during his time at the RT position.

And I don't see Taylor as a "protypical" RT type of a player.

That is a really interesting thought.

It's doable, as the Chiefs can move Wade Smith to center, Niswanger at guard, and Taylor to RT.

I think because of how many QBs they've already killed, that they're going to try not to tinker too much with the line as it is right now. Unfortunately.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:37 PM
LBs and Safeties are often taken in that range if they are an exceptional talent. The Packers don't regret for a second taking AJ Hawk, and in hindsight, Jerod Mayo and Patrick Willis are both top 5 calibre--I'm sure there are lots of teams that really regret not valuing those guys higher.

You don't take a LB that high only because he's the best in his class, but you do if you think he's going to be a difference-maker.

You won't get a whole lot of argument with me about that which is why I will bring up Mays I think he's rare and not a typical safety.

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 03:37 PM
Well he's 6'3, 230lbs...and runs a 4.3.....he's been starting at SC since his true freshman season.

Last week you said he ran in the low 4.4s.

Let me tell you about this fish i caught.

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:37 PM
So we're gonna pick like 6th.

I just can't see us out bungling the bungles, and the Raiders have taken pathetic to a whole new level.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:38 PM
Last week you said he ran in the low 4.4s.

Let me tell you about this fish i caught.

Uh no, I probably said sub 4.4, his timed 40 is something like 4.35.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:38 PM
I just can't see us out bungling the bungles, and the Raiders have taken pathetic to a whole new level.

Well mark off QB and DE then.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 03:39 PM
The Packers don't regret for a second taking AJ Hawk, and in hindsight,

Probably, but only because the rest of the top of that draft has been pretty disappointing. AJ Hawk has been a solid linebacker, but he hasn't exactly lived up to being a top 5 pick. He isn't an elite or even pro-bowl player.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:39 PM
You're talking about a team with over half the team starting that has 3 years of experience or less, and you're going to talk about ONE example of a rookie not playing over a veteran? Nevermind that Bowe held out of training camp and probably wasn't ready to start right away anyway?

Please. Lots of stuff to blame the coaching staff for. But I can't believe there is actually an accusation that they are hesitant to start youth over veteran experience.

Exactly.

Christ, we're talking about a coach that was going to start an 800 year old Eddie Kennison and a guy who's out of the league over Dwayne Bowe from Day One last year.

Thank God Kennison got hurt, or Bowe may have rarely seen the field.

Unfortunately, McIntosh has somehow stayed healthy this year - that seems to be the only way Taylor is going to see any time at RT, where he belongs - for now.

The last 6 games should be played like preseason. Get these guys some work and evaluate for 2009. McIntosh and Jones/Smith bring nothing to this OL, other than sacks and 3 yard losses.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:39 PM
And I don't see Taylor as a "protypical" RT type of a player.

I didn't see Pigpen as the "prot0typical" QB either, but he's producing.

Right now our RT stinks worse than cat $#it in an attick on a hot July day.

If it doesn't work that's cool, and he's got talent so I'd be willing to try C after that, but I'm tired of us butting our heads against the wall (McSucksomuchithurts) waiting for the paint to taste like schnoz berries. Right now our HC should be a fat ball of blue getting sucked up the reject tube...

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:40 PM
That is a really interesting thought.

It's doable, as the Chiefs can move Wade Smith to center, Niswanger at guard, and Taylor to RT.

I think because of how many QBs they've already killed, that they're going to try not to tinker too much with the line as it is right now. Unfortunately.

While true on the last comment, now would be a good time to make the changes, as if you move Taylor to the C position, and slide Rudy to the RG spot, you may have solved two positions in one move that you may not need to select a high pick on. Of course, you will/should pick another G who can fill in Waters spot as I see Waters giving us at least two more years left. That way you got guys who played with each other for a little bit in the end of the 08 season, and something for them to build on towards the 09 season.

The RT problem can be addressed through FA or the Draft. Also, it depends on the development of Richardson as well.

bowener
11-16-2008, 03:42 PM
1. RDE (no pass rush whatsoever)
2. RT (McIntsuck gives it up at least 3/4 times every game)
3. MLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle!!)
4. LDE (Hali should be a backup)
5. OLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle)
6. QB (thiggy looks good but ....... )
7. Center (Niswanger just can't seem to get any push at all)
8. CB (Flowers is hasty,Carr is a viable nickle, we need an athletic #1 guy)
9. Safety (Morgan? McGraw? geesh ... we need a stud back there)
10. RG/DT a tie ... we still need more talent in our interior lines


opinions?

What DE position does T. Suggs play? He is for sale next offseason. If we got a guy like him it would free up the 1st round unless you would rather have Orakpo, which there is nothing wrong with.

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:42 PM
LBs and Safeties are often taken in that range if they are an exceptional talent. The Packers don't regret for a second taking AJ Hawk, and in hindsight, Jerod Mayo and Patrick Willis are both top 5 calibre--I'm sure there are lots of teams that really regret not valuing those guys higher.

You don't take a LB that high only because he's the best in his class, but you do if you think he's going to be a difference-maker.

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for any team to take one, but it doesn't make sense for a team with more pressing needs. The 2010 draft would be an excellent time to take a LB in the 1st

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:42 PM
What DE position does T. Suggs play? He is for sale next offseason.

They'll just tag him again...

KCChiefsMan
11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
1. LDE - definately need a pass rush
2. MLB - ya
3. RG/RT - they just suck
4. FS/SS - need some better safeties
5. C - Rudy blows


I say we keep Thigpen and draft a backup in the 3rd round just in case Thiggy is a fluke

We should dip our fingers into free agency this year and if there are any good safeties/DE's we go for them.

I like Flowers/Carr so do we keep Surtain for nickle or go after one?

Offensive line - get a C, RG, RT a free agent or 2 that's not gonna be another McIntosh

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for any team to take one, but it doesn't make sense for a team with more pressing needs. The 2010 draft would be an excellent time to take a LB in the 1st

BPA...

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:43 PM
You're talking about a team with over half the team starting that has 3 years of experience or less, and you're going to talk about ONE example of a rookie not playing over a veteran? Nevermind that Bowe held out of training camp and probably wasn't ready to start right away anyway?

Please. Lots of stuff to blame the coaching staff for. But I can't believe there is actually an accusation that they are hesitant to start youth over veteran experience.

YOU are the only person saying that.

I'm saying (as well as others) that they aren't playing the best players at certain positions, especially on the OL.

If you're naive enough to trust Herm on these types of decisions, go right ahead.

The entire right side of the line is a fucking trainwreck, and has been the entire season.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:44 PM
While true on the last comment, now would be a good time to make the changes, as if you move Taylor to the C position, and slide Rudy to the RG spot, you may have solved two positions in one move that you may not need to select a high pick on. Of course, you will/should pick another G who can fill in Waters spot as I see Waters giving us at least two more years left. That way you got guys who played with each other for a little bit in the end of the 08 season, and something for them to build on towards the 09 season.

The RT problem can be addressed through FA or the Draft. Also, it depends on the development of Richardson as well.

This.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Herm is putting guys like John McGraw on the field cause he's his good buddy...that's really the only way I can explain McGraw and Jones playing is that they are friends of Herms.

Sully
11-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Taylor to C is a pipe dream.
Just because both positions are on the line, doesn't mean it's a good transition.

whoman69
11-16-2008, 03:45 PM
We have so many needs, almost every position needs help. Good thing we have a rebuild.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Herm is putting guys like John McGraw on the field cause he's his good buddy...that's really the only way I can explain McGraw and Jones playing is that they are friends of Herms.

I agree, and both of them have no business on being the field. They both are special team players at best. That's all there is to it.

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
BPA...

Without a pass rush and a consistent running game. It won't matter who's standing behind the line

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Herm is putting guys like John McGraw on the field cause he's his good buddy...that's really the only way I can explain McGraw and Jones playing is that they are friends of Herms.

Jones is playing at guard because there isn't an option otherwise.

McGraw has only played either in dime packages or if we've had a safety dinged up.

dirk digler
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Well they also refuse to play Herb Taylor....

I think the Chiefs refuse to play anyone else on the line because they seem to think the same guys playing together is more important than benching a dude for blowing.

Yep I think this is the reason why

Sully
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Jones is playing at guard because there isn't an option otherwise.

McGraw has only played either in dime packages or if we've had a safety dinged up.

Today McGraw played quite a bit at OLB.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:48 PM
Without a pass rush and a consistent running game. It won't matter who's standing behind the line

Now this is true to an extent at the same time how many picks have the Chiefs used on defensive lineman and gotten no production in the first 3 rounds in the last oh 8 years?

It's a ridiculous ratio....

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 03:50 PM
Now this is true to an extent at the same time how many picks have the Chiefs used on defensive lineman and gotten no production in the first 3 rounds in the last oh 8 years?

It's a ridiculous ratio....

You had to bring facts into a perfectly irrational argument didn't you.

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:50 PM
Taylor to C is a pipe dream.
Just because both positions are on the line, doesn't mean it's a good transition.

Actually, I disagree, and milkman explained out the reasons why I think it will work.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5105556&postcount=32

In watching him, he's not a guy that's going to get out in space and make a lot of blocks downfield, and he's not really your prototypical RT.

What he does well, as good as anyone I've watched, is get underneath the pads and use great leverage.

That is exactly what you want from a center.

He also seems really cerebral, another quaility that you look for in a center.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:51 PM
Herm is putting guys like John McGraw on the field cause he's his good buddy...that's really the only way I can explain McGraw and Jones playing is that they are friends of Herms.

This.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:53 PM
YOU are the only person saying that.

I'm saying (as well as others) that they aren't playing the best players at certain positions, especially on the OL.

If you're naive enough to trust Herm on these types of decisions, go right ahead.

The entire right side of the line is a ****ing trainwreck, and has been the entire season.

If I'm the only person saying it, then everyone else is an idiot. The Chiefs have benched a lot of players this year that have underperformed. They have cut a lot of players who have underperformed, regardless of their contract status.

You can blame the coaching staff for a lot of things. But it is absolutely absurd to suggest that this team is unopen to playing new guys.

And by the way, the right side of the line may not be great, but Thigpen has only been sacked 2 times before today. I don't remember how many times he was sacked today. That's not bad for an offensive line that you claim is a complete disaster.

Sully
11-16-2008, 03:53 PM
Actually, I disagree, and milkman explained out the reasons why I think it will work.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5105556&postcount=32

He's a guy who has spent his entire career with one foot back, and most of the time in a two point stance.
You now want to ask him to snap a ball (shotgun if we keep running spread/pistol stuff) and then move. It's completely different.
I can't think of any off the top of my head, but how many NFL linemen hae ever gone from a different position (especially tackle) to center?

Rausch
11-16-2008, 03:53 PM
Without a pass rush and a consistent running game. It won't matter who's standing behind the line

We spent years depending on FA's to maintain our team and that way failed.

Now we have a HC who refuses to sign any FA's (of worth or high dollar) and rely only on the draft.

That way lies also the fail.

It's a balance, and knowing the correct balance.

Our team needs talent and lacks a single all pro. NO ALL PRO save Gonzo, who will be traded after the season is over.

Let's add what talent we can and argue the justificating for adding them later...

Coach
11-16-2008, 03:54 PM
He's a guy who has spent his entire career with one foot back, and most of the time in a two point stance.
You now want to ask him to snap a ball (shotgun if we keep running spread/pistol stuff) and then move. It's completely different.
I can't think of any off the top of my head, but how many NFL linemen hae ever gone from a different position (especially tackle) to center?

Well, it's a off-season project that Taylor should participate, IMHO. I mean, if the guy wants to play, this might be his only good shot of getting some playing time, other than hoping for the fact that the coaches finally realize that McGinatosh sucks ass, and pulls him.

And Rudy at the C position is just not working out too well, IMHO.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 03:56 PM
We spent years depending on FA's to maintain our team and that way failed.

Now we have a HC who refuses to sign any FA's (of worth or high dollar) and rely only on the draft.

That way lies also the fail.

It's a balance, and knowing the correct balance.

Our team needs talent and lacks a single all pro. NO ALL PRO save Gonzo, who will be traded after the season is over.

Let's add what talent we can and argue the justificating for adding them later...

We better hope they've gotten over that whole positional value thing and which guys are important and which guys aren't..

One of the biggest problems this team has had, and it's happened with the fans too is the Chiefs had some very good players at positions of less value.

Positions like RB,FB,Guard, TE to most teams those are expendable positions you don't pay.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 03:58 PM
If I'm the only person saying it, then everyone else is an idiot. The Chiefs have benched a lot of players this year that have underperformed. They have cut a lot of players who have underperformed, regardless of their contract status.

You can blame the coaching staff for a lot of things. But it is absolutely absurd to suggest that this team is unopen to playing new guys.

And by the way, the right side of the line may not be great, but Thigpen has only been sacked 2 times before today. I don't remember how many times he was sacked today. That's not bad for an offensive line that you claim is a complete disaster.

JFC.

Apparently they don't teach reading comprehension over at the Coalition.

I haven't suggested they aren't open to playing new guys. They are playign rookies ALL OVER THE FIELD.

Which makes it even more frustrating to see them be stubborn in playing two guys on the OL that wouldn't be backups on most teams, when you have young guys that could be getting some much needed experience.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 03:58 PM
I don't think it's accurate to say that Herm doesn't want to spend in FA. I think it's more accurate to say that in this stage of the rebuild, we'd rather give young guys a chance to win a starting job and prove himself, rather than settle on an expensive, aging or average veteran free agent.

This is the right approach for now. I'll be livid, however, if this team doesn't spend some serious cash this offseason. After watching some tape on Julius Peppers, wow would that be an amazing acquisition.

We spent years depending on FA's to maintain our team and that way failed.

Now we have a HC who refuses to sign any FA's (of worth or high dollar) and rely only on the draft.

That way lies also the fail.

It's a balance, and knowing the correct balance.

Our team needs talent and lacks a single all pro. NO ALL PRO save Gonzo, who will be traded after the season is over.

Let's add what talent we can and argue the justificating for adding them later...

Dark Horse
11-16-2008, 04:02 PM
We spent years depending on FA's to maintain our team and that way failed.

Now we have a HC who refuses to sign any FA's (of worth or high dollar) and rely only on the draft.

That way lies also the fail.

It's a balance, and knowing the correct balance.

Our team needs talent and lacks a single all pro. NO ALL PRO save Gonzo, who will be traded after the season is over.

Let's add what talent we can and argue the justificating for adding them later...
Let me try this analogy. Lets say you've got a car thats a fixer upper and lets say this jalopy has a bad transmition, bald tires, a defective radio and a cracked dash. You could either leave it in the garage while fixing all the things like the radio, the tires, the interior, etc. Or you could put a new tranny in it and at least get some mileage out of it while you rebuild .

Sure-Oz
11-16-2008, 04:05 PM
We really need another great draft, and more picks

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:06 PM
JFC.

Apparently they don't teach reading comprehension over at the Coalition.

I haven't suggested they aren't open to playing new guys. They are playign rookies ALL OVER THE FIELD.

Which makes it even more frustrating to see them be stubborn in playing two guys on the OL that wouldn't be backups on most teams, when you have young guys that could be getting some much needed experience.

That may be true, but the offensive line is the one area where you don't want to tinker too much with the continuity. It's not like other positions where you can move players around. The o-line isn't playing that bad. They're keeping Thigpen on his feet, which is the top priority right now.

I would like to see Taylor get more snaps, but I like that they're constantly moving him in and out to at least get him some reps. I also wonder if Wade Smith plays well enough to keep his job over Adrian Jones.

But again, it's a telling statement that the Chiefs have outright refused to play Richardson, but they're giving Taylor lots of reps at RT. I don't see why people think he's so good. I think he's a liability and he's too slow to be an NFL tackle. That's a position where one mistake and Thigpen is on IR.

Rain Man
11-16-2008, 04:06 PM
1. Head coach
2. Right tackle
3. Quarterback (but if a franchise QB is available and you have a top-five pick, you go quarterback regardless of how well your first-year starter is playing)
4. Middle linebacker
5. Right defensive end
6. Right guard
7. General manager
8. Weakside linebacker (or move DJ and go strongside)
9. Kick returner
10. Bunch of wildman backups on special teams

beach tribe
11-16-2008, 04:08 PM
If I'm the only person saying it, then everyone else is an idiot. The Chiefs have benched a lot of players this year that have underperformed. They have cut a lot of players who have underperformed, regardless of their contract status.

You can blame the coaching staff for a lot of things. But it is absolutely absurd to suggest that this team is unopen to playing new guys.

And by the way, the right side of the line may not be great, but Thigpen has only been sacked 2 times before today. I don't remember how many times he was sacked today. That's not bad for an offensive line that you claim is a complete disaster.

You never cease to amaze me.

Your and idiot.

Coach
11-16-2008, 04:10 PM
While they have benched some players who have underperformed, going to a point of cutting them, then someone explain to me why McIntosh is the exception to this rule?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:14 PM
1. RDE (no pass rush whatsoever)
2. RT (McIntsuck gives it up at least 3/4 times every game)
3. MLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle!!)
4. LDE (Hali should be a backup)
5. OLB (wanna buy someone who can tackle)
6. QB (thiggy looks good but ....... )
7. Center (Niswanger just can't seem to get any push at all)
8. CB (Flowers is hasty,Carr is a viable nickle, we need an athletic #1 guy)
9. Safety (Morgan? McGraw? geesh ... we need a stud back there)
10. RG/DT a tie ... we still need more talent in our interior lines


opinions?

Jesus.

1. QB
2. RDE
3. MLB
4. RT
5. WR
6. Right Guard
7. Center
8. CB
9. FS
10. LDE

Morgan is going to be a very good player

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
Jesus.

1. QB
2. RDE
3. MLB
4. RT
5. WR
6. Right Guard
7. Center
8. CB
9. FS
10. LDE

Morgan is going to be a very good player

If you like Morgan you'd probably think the team needs a SS, he's much more suited to be a FS.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:15 PM
We really need another great draft, and more picks

Well outside of Gonzalez, there is no one that we can trade outside of a young guy, who would actually net us any meaningful picks. The acquire more picks ship has sailed, and if we trade out of the top 5, I'll fucking kill someone.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:16 PM
If you like Morgan you'd probably think the team needs a SS, he's much more suited to be a FS.

He can play either position. I actually believe we had this discussion last year and you said he was a better SS, and I said he could do either.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:17 PM
He can play either position. I actually believe we had this discussion last year and you said he was a better SS, and I said he could do either.

If I ever said I thought he was a SS I must have been high at the time, he's basically built like a big corner so I'd much rather he play FS.

bowener
11-16-2008, 04:19 PM
Well outside of Gonzalez, there is no one that we can trade outside of a young guy, who would actually net us any meaningful picks. The acquire more picks ship has sailed, and if we trade out of the top 5, I'll ****ing kill someone.

I fully agree with you, especially when we are sitting on top of damn near $50 million in cap room to go out and get young stars to fill some of the holes we need.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:21 PM
Well outside of Gonzalez, there is no one that we can trade outside of a young guy, who would actually net us any meaningful picks. The acquire more picks ship has sailed, and if we trade out of the top 5, I'll fucking kill someone.

They'll trade out to 12th and draft James Lauranitis.

Rausch
11-16-2008, 04:22 PM
He can play either position. I actually believe we had this discussion last year and you said he was a better SS, and I said he could do either.

Awesome.

So we'll probably draft him and move him to CB where he'll go on to be the next Warfield or Bartee.

macdawg
11-16-2008, 04:27 PM
1. RDE
2. RT
3. C
4. RG
5. MLB
6. OLB
7. RB
8. QB
9. CB
10. K

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:27 PM
You never cease to amaze me.

Your and idiot.

Good argument.

By the way, when you call someone an idiot, you should probably use the right grammar.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:34 PM
Well outside of Gonzalez, there is no one that we can trade outside of a young guy, who would actually net us any meaningful picks. The acquire more picks ship has sailed, and if we trade out of the top 5, I'll ****ing kill someone.

If we ****ing pick someone because he's BPA, even though we don't have an immediate need for him, I'll be pissed too. Remember when we drafted Larry Johnson because he was BPA? Did you ever stop to think what this team could have been like if we instead went for Nick Barnett? LJ sat the bench for several years on a team that might have been one player away from a Super Bowl run.

Drafting a LT would essentially be legitimizing spending a #17 pick on a guard, and moving a productive left tackle out of position. Drafting a QB outside of Stafford is settling for a pick. Drafting a WR like Crabtree on a team that has 2 receivers playing very good football is something Matt Millen would do.

The only players I can justify sticking around for are Stafford and Orakpo, unless someone makes a huge leap, which is doubtful. Stafford will be gone and we're making a huge assumption that Orakpo will grade as a top 3 calibre DE--I still have doubts as to whether he is.

Otherwise, you're reaching. I would rather reach for a player we need, then stick around for someone we don't need or for someone that's going to push a productive player to the bench. And I would rather trade down and draft the guy we want at the right spot and get extra picks on the side than reach.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:36 PM
You think there's only 2 top 5 players? are you high?

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 04:39 PM
Good argument.

By the way, when you call someone an idiot, you should probably use the right grammar.

ROFL

Gotta love the n00bs, chastising long-time posters for using the lexicon...

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:41 PM
You think there's only 2 top 5 players? are you high?

I think the only other top players are left tackles and WRs. Maybe a CB or two slips in there and Orakpo.

None of these positions are places where we would get the difference-making you would want out of a top 10 pick.

I will vomit if the Chiefs use a top 5 pick on a left tackle.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2008, 04:41 PM
If we ****ing pick someone because he's BPA, even though we don't have an immediate need for him, I'll be pissed too. Remember when we drafted Larry Johnson because he was BPA? Did you ever stop to think what this team could have been like if we instead went for Nick Barnett? LJ sat the bench for several years on a team that might have been one player away from a Super Bowl run.

Drafting a LT would essentially be legitimizing spending a #17 pick on a guard, and moving a productive left tackle out of position. Drafting a QB outside of Stafford is settling for a pick. Drafting a WR like Crabtree on a team that has 2 receivers playing very good football is something Matt Millen would do.

The only players I can justify sticking around for are Stafford and Orakpo, unless someone makes a huge leap, which is doubtful. Stafford will be gone and we're making a huge assumption that Orakpo will grade as a top 3 calibre DE--I still have doubts as to whether he is.

Otherwise, you're reaching. I would rather reach for a player we need, then stick around for someone we don't need or for someone that's going to push a productive player to the bench. And I would rather trade down and draft the guy we want at the right spot and get extra picks on the side than reach.

It's November, and you think it's doubtful that someone makes a big leap?

Holy shit.

Matt Ryan wasn't even considered a 1st round pick until this time last year, much less 3rd overall.

A LOT is going to change between now and April.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:41 PM
ROFL

Gotta love the n00bs, chastising long-time posters for using the lexicon...

I like his argument of there's only 2 players in the top 5 the Chiefs can use and 1 of them he isn't even sure about.

You'd think our team was great.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:43 PM
If we ****ing pick someone because he's BPA, even though we don't have an immediate need for him, I'll be pissed too. Remember when we drafted Larry Johnson because he was BPA? Did you ever stop to think what this team could have been like if we instead went for Nick Barnett? LJ sat the bench for several years on a team that might have been one player away from a Super Bowl run.

Drafting a LT would essentially be legitimizing spending a #17 pick on a guard, and moving a productive left tackle out of position. Drafting a QB outside of Stafford is settling for a pick. Drafting a WR like Crabtree on a team that has 2 receivers playing very good football is something Matt Millen would do.

The only players I can justify sticking around for are Stafford and Orakpo, unless someone makes a huge leap, which is doubtful. Stafford will be gone and we're making a huge assumption that Orakpo will grade as a top 3 calibre DE--I still have doubts as to whether he is.

Otherwise, you're reaching. I would rather reach for a player we need, then stick around for someone we don't need or for someone that's going to push a productive player to the bench. And I would rather trade down and draft the guy we want at the right spot and get extra picks on the side than reach.

#1) I don't want any QB in this draft outside of Stafford before round 5.
#2) We spent a #15 pick on Albert, not 17.
#3) LJ was a Carl pick. If you are really pissed about that pick, you should be pissed that we traded down and took LJ instead of picking Polamalu at 16. Furthermore, assuming that Priest was "busted", and it was a fair assumption, that would have been an even better pick.
#4) I've never argued for drafting Crabtree in the top 5, let alone the top 10. I don't even like him as much as DHB.
#5) You don't reach in the top five.
#6)You don't fucking reach period.
#7)Trading down to get the guy you want is never a guarantee, the '07 draft should have taught you that with what the Browns did to us twice.
#8) The 2004 draft: We trade down to get the guy we want, Olshansky. He goes one pick before us. So what do we do? We reach to pick a guy we need, a run stuffing DT...Junior cockfucking Siavii.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:43 PM
I think the only other top players are left tackles and WRs. Maybe a CB or two slips in there and Orakpo.

None of these positions are places where we would get the difference-making you would want out of a top 10 pick.

I will vomit if the Chiefs use a top 5 pick on a left tackle.

Um I don't see any top 5 WR's this year...there might be a top 5 safety though...

If Michael Oher is far and away the best player on the board then you have to take him, there are worse things than have a guy who'll play for 15 years as a top flight player.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:45 PM
I fully agree with you, especially when we are sitting on top of damn near $50 million in cap room to go out and get young stars to fill some of the holes we need.

If I were us, I'd target one guy, throw some decent money at him, and call it a night in FA. The only other guys we should target would be DeMorrio Williams type guys who are cheap and effective backups, and not pieces of rat shit who just got off a 4-11 at Hy-Vee pushing carts.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:47 PM
I like his argument of there's only 2 players in the top 5 the Chiefs can use and 1 of them he isn't even sure about.

You'd think our team was great.

I didn't say there were only 2 players the Chiefs can use.

But if you're going to use a first round pick, it needs to be someone who's going to add a lot of value to your team.

Michael Oher would add value to the Chiefs. But not much more so than Branden Albert does.

Maualuga and Laurinitis provide the Chiefs with long-term value, and a lot more so than Pat Thomas would.

I have never said that things won't change. If there's a really good player at DE, QB, DT, LB, or Safety... arguably at CB, that you think indisputably belongs in the top 3, then yes, you pull the trigger.

But settling for BPA because you're afraid to reach is just silly. The top 10 has talent no matter where you draft, and it can't be purely BPA. It has to be a blend of BPA and need. When you get past the first round, it's purely BPA.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:50 PM
The top 10 has talent no matter where you draft, and it can't be purely BPA. It has to be a blend of BPA and need. .

I agree with you here, but I will say that you have to competently evaluate and dance the tightrope here, otherwise you say "Well shit, Joe Thomas is gone, we need a tackle, we've got the #5 pick and Levi Brown is the #2 tackle...Brown it is!!"

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:52 PM
If I were us, I'd target one guy, throw some decent money at him, and call it a night in FA. The only other guys we should target would be DeMorrio Williams type guys who are cheap and effective backups, and not pieces of rat shit who just got off a 4-11 at Hy-Vee pushing carts.

I would put all my money on Carolina.

Jordan Gross and Julius Peppers. I will be pissed if the Chiefs don't make a serious run at these guys.

Peppers may be 28, but I truly believe he has the ability to play till 35, like Strahan.

Mecca
11-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Why would the number 1 player in FA sign with the Chiefs?

You know the guy has to want to play for your team.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 04:53 PM
I would put all my money on Carolina.

Jordan Gross and Julius Peppers. I will be pissed if the Chiefs don't make a serious run at these guys.

Peppers may be 28, but I truly believe he has the ability to play till 35, like Strahan.

Don't throw money at 28 year old guys who disappeared for almost two years before they entered their contract year.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:57 PM
I agree with you here, but I will say that you have to competently evaluate and dance the tightrope here, otherwise you say "Well shit, Joe Thomas is gone, we need a tackle, we've got the #5 pick and Levi Brown is the #2 tackle...Brown it is!!"

No, it can't be a gut panic reflex.

I've always believed that in the top 10, you build a board of players you badly want and you take out players who you don't necessarily need (like Oher or Crabtree).

You take the top on your specific board. If the top of your board is a reach, consider a trade down. But only if you are confident that he'll still be there or you have another guy that you think will be there as insurance.

I truly believe that with the talent at LT on the top of the board, the Chiefs can trade out of their spot and get a really nice pick in exchange. At the very least, they need to entertain offers. I understand that it's not easy to trade down, but I hope they'll at least try.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Don't throw money at 28 year old guys who disappeared for almost two years before they entered their contract year.

That's the risk you have to take.

Unfortunately, in a world where it's easier to find cap space, you're never going to find a surefire guy. You either have to settle for a guy like Peppers who may have been playing for a contract or an average player like Hadnot or Hartwig who was cut because his team no longer wanted him. Rare is there an elite free agent who doesn't carry a question mark or two.

But I think Peppers' long-term resume speaks for itself. I wouldn't say he took two years off. He had 13 sacks in 2005.

Basileus777
11-16-2008, 05:00 PM
That's the risk you have to take.

Unfortunately, in a world where it's easier to find cap space, you're never going to find a surefire guy. You either have to settle for a guy like Peppers who may have been playing for a contract or an average player like Hadnot or Hartwig who was cut because his team no longer wanted him. Rare is there an elite free agent who doesn't carry a question mark or two.

But I think Peppers' long-term resume speaks for itself. I wouldn't say he took two years off. He had 13 sacks in 2005.

Peppers was leading the league in sacks halfway through that season and then completely disappeared the second half of that season.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 05:06 PM
That's the risk you have to take.

No, it's not.

Guys like Julius Peppers don't get free unless they've got some pretty big ?s. You are making a huge investment for a player who is probably only going to be able to give you 2-3 years of peak play...and that's if he doesn't turn into a lazy fuck once he gets paid again.

whoman69
11-16-2008, 05:10 PM
And by the way, the right side of the line may not be great, but Thigpen has only been sacked 2 times before today. I don't remember how many times he was sacked today. That's not bad for an offensive line that you claim is a complete disaster.

The offensive line is the worst part of the team. Thigpen doesn't get sacked that often because teams know he will bolt down the field. They feel more confident in coverage. I didn't see the game because it wasn't on TV, but Dawson was saying the whole game that our receivers were not getting separation.
The telling part of our o-line is that we had a ton of sacks before we switched to the spread, and still cannot run the ball.

Coach
11-16-2008, 05:12 PM
The offensive line is the worst part of the team. Thigpen doesn't get sacked that often because teams know he will bolt down the field. They feel more confident in coverage. I didn't see the game because it wasn't on TV, but Dawson was saying the whole game that our receivers were not getting separation.
The telling part of our o-line is that we had a ton of sacks before we switched to the spread, and still cannot run the ball.

Eh, the right side of the O-Line is one of the worst part on this team, but it's not as bad as the whole D-Line or LB's are. I mean, six sacks for this season.

How pathetic is that?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 05:15 PM
Eh, the right side of the O-Line is one of the worst part on this team, but it's not as bad as the whole D-Line or LB's are. I mean, six sacks for this season.

How pathetic is that?

http://video2gif.leechvideo.com/convert/gif/200811160731369772.gif

Reerun_KC
11-16-2008, 05:26 PM
Eh, the right side of the O-Line is one of the worst part on this team, but it's not as bad as the whole D-Line or LB's are. I mean, six sacks for this season.

How pathetic is that?

We just dont have a staff that can evaluate talent well enough...

we have 4 day one picks on that DL and it still sucks ass....

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 05:55 PM
We just dont have a staff that can evaluate talent well enough...

we have 4 day one picks on that DL and it still sucks ass....

I don't think it's about the ability to evaluate talent as much as it is about this team trying to rebuild an entire ship with scrap wood.

The Chiefs have some good d-linemen. But they lack playmakers. i truly believe that if Allen was on this team with Dorsey and Tyler in the middle, and Turk and Hali rotating at LDE, the line would actually be solid.

milkman
11-16-2008, 05:57 PM
We just dont have a staff that can evaluate talent well enough...

we have 4 day one picks on that DL and it still sucks ass....

I think it's still too early to call those picks wasted, or busts, or whatever you may think they are.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 05:59 PM
I think it's still too early to call those picks wasted, or busts, or whatever you may think they are.

Hali is a bust. Period.

milkman
11-16-2008, 06:03 PM
Hali is a bust. Period.

I won't argue that.

I've been bitching about him all season.

But Tank, Turk, and certainly Dorsey, too early to call.

FringeNC
11-16-2008, 06:05 PM
Hali is a bust. Period.

That draft isn't looking very good.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 06:06 PM
Hali is a bust. Period.

I think bust is too strong a word. Reach, yes. I've always viewed busts as players we would never draft period. I think if we could have a re-do, we wouldn't draft Hali in the first, but we'd gladly draft him in the second.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 06:08 PM
That draft isn't looking very good.

Yup. Not a very good draft.

milkman
11-16-2008, 06:09 PM
I think bust is too strong a word. Reach, yes. I've always viewed busts as players we would never draft period. I think if we could have a re-do, we wouldn't draft Hali in the first, but we'd gladly draft him in the second.

In that draft, Hali and Mathias Kiwanuka were rated fairly closely, with Hali rated just slightly higher.

The way they have progressed respectively is really just another indictment of the Chiefs coaching, IMO.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2008, 06:11 PM
I think bust is too strong a word. Reach, yes. I've always viewed busts as players we would never draft period. I think if we could have a re-do, we wouldn't draft Hali in the first, but we'd gladly draft him in the second.

In hindsight, we should have drafted DeMeco Ryans in the first and Youboty in the second. Ironically, I was clamoring for Youboty...

And the 2006 draft class was every bit as bad as some of Vermeil's drafts.

Hali-bust
Pollard-disappointment
Croyle-broke ass
Herm-LAWL
Maxey-Worthless
Stallings-Worthless
Webb-Worthless
Page-Good pick for a 7th rounder, but not a starter, IMO.

chiefzilla1501
11-16-2008, 06:15 PM
In that draft, Hali and Mathias Kiwanuka were rated fairly closely, with Hali rated just slightly higher.

The way they have progressed respectively is really just another indictment of the Chiefs coaching, IMO.

I don't think so. I knew years ago that Hali's upside was limited. He was never fast off the edges, just had a good first step. And he had incredibly short arms. It was an embarrassment that any coach that he would fare well as a RDE.

I was never a big fan of the Hali pick. Actually, I didn't like the Pollard pick either, though right now, I don't think it was a complete whiff. I think our drafting has improved quite a bit since 2006, thank god.

milkman
11-16-2008, 06:27 PM
I don't think so. I knew years ago that Hali's upside was limited. He was never fast off the edges, just had a good first step. And he had incredibly short arms. It was an embarrassment that any coach that he would fare well as a RDE.

I was never a big fan of the Hali pick. Actually, I didn't like the Pollard pick either, though right now, I don't think it was a complete whiff. I think our drafting has improved quite a bit since 2006, thank god.

No, I get that.

It was pretty well established that Hali had pretty much reached his ceiling, where the coaching has failed is that Hali has regressed.

He was much better as a rookie than he is now, and while that can be attributed, in part, to injuries, it also can be blamed on coaching.

He does the one thing that you can always count on from Cunther defenders.

He sucks at tackling.

As a rookie, he was a solid tackler.