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Tribal Warfare
11-17-2008, 12:00 AM
Chiefs putting the L in loser (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/894248.html)
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star


* Saints 30, Chiefs 20 | photo gallery with postgame audio from coach Herm Edwards

Philosopher Bill Parcells popularized the football theory that a team is exactly what its record says it is.

That makes our Kansas City Chiefs losers — losers approaching historic dimensions.

Sunday afternoon at Arrowhead Stadium, the Chiefs ran their futility streak to 18 of their last 19, falling to the New Orleans Saints 30-20.

For those of you who prefer to take comfort in the mitigating circumstances, there was the usual assortment.

•The refs stole four points from the home team, denying Larry Johnson a 1-yard TD plunge and forcing the Chiefs to settle for a field goal.

•Because of injuries, Kansas City played with about half of its defensive starters.

•Midseason acquisition/bright spot Mark Bradley dropped a critical third-down pass in the fourth quarter, killing a would-be game-tying TD drive.

Yeah, like a lot of Kansas City’s losses the last two seasons, the Chiefs coulda, shoulda, woulda won had the right breaks fallen their way.

But the truth is that from Nov. 4, 2007, until the moment you read these words, the 1-18 Chiefs have been the worst team in professional football — worse than the 2-17 Detroit Lions.

L-O-S-E-R-S.

One of life’s most difficult challenges is accepting people (or things) you love for who they are rather than what you want them to be. It’s a challenge most of us fail to the delight of divorce lawyers, therapists and booty calls.

We foolishly think if we love just a little bit harder, for a little bit longer, things will change for the better.

I woke up Sunday morning convinced things could only get better for the Chiefs. Surely they would beat the Saints, who came to town without Reggie Bush and in a disappointing funk of their own.

When Tyler Thigpen’s third-and-2 dart bounced off Bradley’s chest, I conceded the obvious: Losers find a way to lose.

I knew Kansas City’s defense wouldn’t hold. I figured the Saints would at least march into field-goal range and make it a two-score game.

“There’s a saying, ‘Losing breeds losing, and success breeds success,’ ” Chiefs safety Jon McGraw explained. “The losing definitely wears on you.”

The Chiefs are worn out. They have no reason to believe anymore. They came into Sunday’s game realizing they needed to score 30 points to protect their injury-ravaged defense. They had Larry Johnson in the backfield after a one-month sabbatical for conduct detrimental to common decency and sense.

The Saints had given up 30-plus points in their three previous games.

It didn’t matter. KC’s offense regressed. Thigpen connected on just half of his 38 passes. Twice when the Chiefs sniffed the goal line, he misfired on fade passes to Dwayne Bowe. Thigpen badly underthrew Bradley on a deep ball that should have been a 55-yard TD. Instead, it was a 31-yard, falling catch that led to a 21-yard field goal.

Thigpen is Kansas City’s backup quarterback of the future. Like Brodie Croyle, Thigpen is miscast as a starter. As a starter, he’s good enough to get the Chiefs beat.

Again, we can talk about mitigating circumstances — his youth, inexperience, suspect line and occasional questionable play-calling.

The truth is he is exactly what his 0-5 record says he is. And so are the Chiefs.

We’re witnessing the worst stretch of Kansas City football in franchise history. From Nov. 13, 1977, to Nov. 19, 1978, the Chiefs won two of 19 games.

L-O-S-E-R-S.

That’s not fun to write. I’ve had a front press-row seat to most of the recent losses. As much as I’d like to see The Artist Formerly Known as King Carl dethroned, I much prefer to write about the Chiefs when they’re winning, the games are significant and you’re engaged and passionate.

The losing makes us all look and feel like losers. Plus, we have no guarantee this patch of wretchedness will usher in change we can believe in.

The Dolphins were the last team to lose 18 of 19. Their run of futility ended in mid-September this season and was sparked by Parcells’ ascension to the head of the organization.

The Hunt family responded to their late-1970s ineffectiveness by waiting another decade before hiring Carl Peterson.

You can’t force a loser to change.

If he didn’t have a job when you met him, if her cell phone blew up all night the first time you slept over, don’t act surprised that you’re paying his bills and she’s hiding text messages a year later.

We love a loser.

chiefs1111
11-17-2008, 12:02 AM
Great article as usual Shitlock.............

Claynus
11-17-2008, 12:05 AM
Thought this was kind of a weak effort. But it's nice to see we agree on the fraudulent play of Tyler Thigpen.

Rausch
11-17-2008, 12:07 AM
One of life’s most difficult challenges is accepting people (or things) you love for who they are rather than what you want them to be. It’s a challenge most of us fail to the delight of divorce lawyers, therapists and booty calls.

We foolishly think if we love just a little bit harder, for a little bit longer, things will change for the better.

Exactly.

Finally an article I'd pay $0.50 for.

Thig Lyfe
11-17-2008, 12:40 AM
Thought this was kind of a weak effort. But it's nice to see we agree on the fraudulent play of Tyler Thigpen.

I'm starting to think you're trashing him because quarterbacks end up being the opposite of what you declare them be and you want him to succeed.

Claynus
11-17-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm starting to think you're trashing him because quarterbacks end up being the opposite of what you declare them be and you want him to succeed.

Your statement really isn't accurate. I declared Huard terrible in training camp this year. I declared him better than anyone believed he was in 2006. I was right on both counts.

I never, ever said Croyle was going to pan out, but I was correct that he could play quarterback in this league. He's just too injury prone.

As for Thigpen, I have no confidence that he can be "the guy." I want every Chiefs player to succeed but will go apeshit if he starts next year with no real second option.

Direckshun
11-17-2008, 12:45 AM
That's not fun to write.
Which is why he wrote it twice.

Pushead2
11-17-2008, 12:50 AM
I'm starting to believe that Claythan isn't a chiefs fan and if he is, the worst one in history.

Claynus
11-17-2008, 12:55 AM
I'm starting to believe that Claythan isn't a chiefs fan and if he is, the worst one in history.

I get less and less joy out of Chiefs games with each passing Sunday. They are generally managed by a man I regard as incompetent, they are coached by a man I lost complete faith in, they are quarterbacked by a man I have no confidence in.

About the only excitement I get out of Chiefs games these days is watching Dwayne Bowe do his thing. I was glad to see Larry back, though. He always excites me.

Direckshun
11-17-2008, 12:56 AM
I think that's a fair perspective.

Is there no chance you could spare throwing out the baby with the bathwater, though?

okcchief
11-17-2008, 01:05 AM
Your statement really isn't accurate. I declared Huard terrible in training camp this year. I declared him better than anyone believed he was in 2006. I was right on both counts.

I never, ever said Croyle was going to pan out, but I was correct that he could play quarterback in this league. He's just too injury prone.

As for Thigpen, I have no confidence that he can be "the guy." I want every Chiefs player to succeed but will go apeshit if he starts next year with no real second option.

Thigpen has shown more than Croyle EVER did, healthy or not. Croyle looked like shit throwing intermediate passes his whole career college and pro. I have never had an ounce of confidence in him. The best thing about this season is the Chiefs giving up on him once and for all.

I'm not sold on Thigpen as the future but he has played well enough to stay on the roster next year. We definately still need to bring in another QB or two and have a competition.

If you think you were right about being a good QB you are fucking delusional.

Claynus
11-17-2008, 01:08 AM
Croyle looked like shit throwing intermediate passes his whole career college and pro.

That's not really true. Not at all. I think Croyle was by far better at making downfield throws. His accuracy was certainly in a completely different league.

Anyway, let's all shut the fuck up about Croyle. It's honestly getting tiring. I've moved on.

Darth CarlSatan
11-17-2008, 01:10 AM
I get less and less joy out of Chiefs games with each passing Sunday. They are generally managed by a man I regard as incompetent, they are coached by a man I lost complete faith in, they are quarterbacked by a man I have no confidence in.

About the only excitement I get out of Chiefs games these days is watching Dwayne Bowe do his thing. I was glad to see Larry back, though. He always excites me.

Bottom-Feeder.

Fruit Ninja
11-17-2008, 01:23 AM
Our Offense is not going to get much better then it is right now regardless of who is QB'ing. We need a better offensive line.

KCJohnny
11-17-2008, 01:39 AM
Thought this was kind of a weak effort. But it's nice to see we agree on the fraudulent play of Tyler Thigpen.

You can't hang that all on the kid. He's been the reason we have been in each of the last 4 games. Thigpen is more than the KC Back up of the future. He might not be the decade long permanent solution, but he's shown a ton of promise in a bleak situation.

JuicesFlowing
11-17-2008, 01:56 AM
It must be nice to get paid to go to Chiefs games and write about obvious things, such as they find ways to lose, etc.

Fruit Ninja
11-17-2008, 02:15 AM
You can't hang that all on the kid. He's been the reason we have been in each of the last 4 games. Thigpen is more than the KC Back up of the future. He might not be the decade long permanent solution, but he's shown a ton of promise in a bleak situation.

Yep, He has a long ways to go, but he's closer then Brodie or Huard has been with this team this year. I honestly expect him to have a bad game. QB's have been games all the time. Even the great ones.

KCJohnny
11-17-2008, 03:05 AM
Yep, He has a long ways to go, but he's closer then Brodie or Huard has been with this team this year. I honestly expect him to have a bad game. QB's have bad games all the time. Even the great ones. FYP

Exactly. And who was realistically expecting a bunch of Chiefs wins this year? We dumped our best player (Jared Allen), hired 13 rookies, lost our #1 and 2 QBs, and then our _efense turned into a M*A*S*H unit and we are literally hiring guys off the street on Monday and playing 'em against good teams on Sunday.

Look, the consensus on CP was that the whole team needed to be ripped up by the roots and started all over. We are doing that. That may mean 1-15. It happens. But clearly the team is moving in the right direction with Thiggy and even the _efense is playing better. One of the signs a bottom feeder is improving is that you start losing by less. The last four games KC has lost by 18 points. That's less than 5 points per game. All 4 of those teams are competing for playoff spots.

Whitlock is just being Whitlock. He'll man up and sing Thiggy's praises when the kid comes through in a big way for us. Its only a matter of time, and it might not be that far away.

Kerberos
11-17-2008, 04:25 AM
I honestly would like to see Pigpen do well and thrive as KC's QBOF as I "Always" root for the underdog.

Of course I was rooting for Sippio to make this team too. :doh!:

I hope Pigpen becomes the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady and gives Clayton a big "SHITBURGER" to eat. :D

Ultra Peanut
11-17-2008, 04:31 AM
I'm starting to think you're trashing him because quarterbacks end up being the opposite of what you declare them be and you want him to succeed.shhhhhh

Deberg_1990
11-17-2008, 05:45 AM
Good stuff.

Thanks Jason for reminding as all about the 77-78 Chiefs and how it took Lamar a whole decade to make REAL changes after that. I feel so much better now.

Honestly, at this point the best Chiefs fans can hope for is new ownership (not likely)


JWhit is right: "You cant force a LOSER to change"

cookster50
11-17-2008, 05:55 AM
About the only excitement I get out of Chiefs games these days is watching Dwayne Bowe do his thing. I was glad to see Larry back, though. He always excites me.


Claythan loves him some dropped balls!

petegz28
11-17-2008, 08:55 AM
Atlanta aside, this was Thiggy's worst game and it was still better than Huard or Croyle.

Reerun_KC
11-17-2008, 09:13 AM
“There’s a saying, ‘Losing breeds losing, and success breeds success,’ ” Chiefs safety Jon McGraw explained. “The losing definitely wears on you.”


Well signing you McGraw didnt increase the winning % any....


When you hire a loser, with a defeatest mentality, this is what you get. Any team that is lead by Herm, will have a defeatest attitude...

StcChief
11-17-2008, 09:43 AM
Fatlock :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:
at least we aren't Detriot....

Chief Henry
11-17-2008, 09:58 AM
THis franchise is on f'n joke.

oaklandhater
11-17-2008, 10:24 AM
FYP

Exactly. And who was realistically expecting a bunch of Chiefs wins this year? We dumped our best player (Jared Allen), hired 13 rookies, lost our #1 and 2 QBs, and then our _efense turned into a M*A*S*H unit and we are literally hiring guys off the street on Monday and playing 'em against good teams on Sunday.

Look, the consensus on CP was that the whole team needed to be ripped up by the roots and started all over. We are doing that. That may mean 1-15. It happens. But clearly the team is moving in the right direction with Thiggy and even the _efense is playing better. One of the signs a bottom feeder is improving is that you start losing by less. The last four games KC has lost by 18 points. That's less than 5 points per game. All 4 of those teams are competing for playoff spots.

Whitlock is just being Whitlock. He'll man up and sing Thiggy's praises when the kid comes through in a big way for us. Its only a matter of time, and it might not be that far away.

I thought we have been over this you never go 1-15 even when you are rebuilding it shows complete failure.

Boyceofsummer
11-17-2008, 10:36 AM
Everyone around him is new to this type of system. He gets it. What I saw was young emerging fast receivers a mobile and smart quarterback that rarely gives the opponent the ball and a system that is making Gonzalez and possibly JL obsolete and expendable. I'm betting many teams will hate playing the Chiefs next year or two years down the line. I see hope after watching the Chiefs with Thigpin at the helm for the first time.

gblowfish
11-17-2008, 10:54 AM
L-O-S-E-R
Takes one to know one.

BigChiefFan
11-17-2008, 11:00 AM
Herm really built a dynasty, the record just doesn't reflect it.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-17-2008, 11:18 AM
We have to draft a QB high. We can't put all of our hopes and dreams in the hands of Thigpen.

Darth CarlSatan
11-17-2008, 11:19 AM
Herm really built a dynasty, the record just doesn't reflect it.

KISS had a record called "Dynasty", and it was just about as useless...

oaklandhater
11-17-2008, 11:20 AM
We have to draft a QB high. We can't put all of our hopes and dreams in the hands of Thigpen.

QFT

Reerun_KC
11-17-2008, 11:23 AM
We have to draft a QB high. We can't put all of our hopes and dreams in the hands of Thigpen.

Agree, but true fans will argue the selection.

We need a foundation to build on.

Coach
11-17-2008, 11:24 AM
Agree, but true fans will argue the selection.

We need a foundation to build on.

In my opinion, to build a rock solid foundation, one must have a soild line on both sides of the ball.

Reerun_KC
11-17-2008, 11:25 AM
In my opinion, to build a rock solid foundation, one must have a soild line on both sides of the ball.

True, but we have been down that road before with many rejects under center....

Reerun_KC
11-17-2008, 11:26 AM
If Stafford is there, We take him, no questions asked.

Coach
11-17-2008, 11:27 AM
True, but we have been down that road before with many rejects under center....

If you are referring to Girlbac, Boner, and some other rejects, I can understand that argument. But I'm just simply saying that in order to have a effective pass protection/run blocking or stopping the run/pass rushing, you need to have a solid line in order for your skill players to succeed.

Let's assume that the Chiefs didn't do anything or made little additions to the D-line, but they drafted a MLB, the MLB can't do much if the DE's/DT's aren't stopping the run or occupying blockers and rushing the QB.

The game has been controlled by the trenches, and it will continue to do so in the future.

Reerun_KC
11-17-2008, 11:30 AM
If you are referring to Girlbac, Boner, and some other rejects, I can understand that argument. But I'm just simply saying that in order to have a effective pass protection/run blocking or stopping the run/pass rushing, you need to have a solid line in order for your skill players to succeed.

Let's assume that the Chiefs didn't do anything or made little additions to the D-line, but they drafted a MLB, the MLB can't do much if the DE's/DT's aren't stopping the run or occupying blockers and rushing the QB.

The game has been controlled by the trenches, and it will continue to do so in the future.

Agree.... Take Stafford, draft a OL and DL in the other rounds, maybe a solid FA OL signing and BOOM (thanks Madden) you have a solid OL to protect your new shiney QB...

Darth CarlSatan
11-17-2008, 11:33 AM
Agree, but true fans will argue the selection.

We need a foundation to build on.

Hey, as long as it's someone skinny like Croyle who can put in a career-long 6 quarters of play before being sent to the farm, or if it's some Chunky Monkey who plays and moves with all the urgency of an elephant taking a piss;

What's there to argue?

No line, no defense; don't need em. Just draft the top 4 Quarterbacks on everyone's QB Hard-On list, and use the rest of the $$$$ to issue fans coming in to Arrowhead some sort of apparatus to help them place their heads up their asses if they're not already there.
And a commemorative 12"-inch dinner plate with Carl's face on it.

alpha_omega
11-17-2008, 11:40 AM
Finally an article I'd pay $0.50 for.

I think it will cost you .75 now.

Coach
11-17-2008, 11:41 AM
I think it will cost you .75 now.

That is correct. KC Star upped their prices from .50 to .75.

donkhater
11-17-2008, 11:50 AM
What good would drafting Stafford do? He could start his first four games, have a QB rating above 90 and if the Chiefs didn't win, he's shown all he's going to show and we'll need to go in another direction.

Sounds about right doesn't it?

TEX
11-17-2008, 12:03 PM
L-O-S-E-R
Takes one to know one.


Not in this case it doesn't.

oaklandhater
11-17-2008, 12:09 PM
What good would drafting Stafford do? He could start his first four games, have a QB rating above 90 and if the Chiefs didn't win, he's shown all he's going to show and we'll need to go in another direction.

Sounds about right doesn't it?

Not True he would probably suck his 1st season with our o-line but he has way more upside and potential then thigpen

burt
11-17-2008, 01:02 PM
Piss and moan all you want. We are where we are and winning will NOT help us. Thigpen is very competent. He MAY blossom. But for now I am simply pleased to show promise, expose our rookies to the NFL and lose. As long as we show advancement, this season, I will be happy. I wouldn't care if we lost every renmaining game....as long as we improve.

We fans have unreasonable expectations when we have so many rookies and 5 of our defense wasn't even playing at the beginning of the season. Rookies combined with numerous injuries = rough season.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 01:04 PM
When you argue line you do realize the Chiefs in the last 8 years have probably used more picks on the defensive line than any other team in football and have about nothing to show for it.

Deberg_1990
11-17-2008, 01:06 PM
When you argue line you do realize the Chiefs in the last 8 years have probably used more picks on the defensive line than any other team in football and have about nothing to show for it.

Thats a very good point. The guys on 810 last night mentioned this.

The Chiefs have essentially been trying to rebuild the defense for the past 10 years. They just suck at it.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm not interested in drafting for position, I'm interested in drafting impact players.

Do you think the Cards are better off because they took Larry Fitzgerald when they didn't really need him instead of trying to get Robert Gallery?

How much better off would they be had they taken Peterson instead of the need of Levi Brown?

They're a good example of why you just take the best player, if you have a giant hole go into FA on that.

Darth CarlSatan
11-17-2008, 01:22 PM
Thats a very good point. The guys on 810 last night mentioned this.

The Chiefs have essentially been trying to rebuild the defense for the past 10 years. They just suck at it.

We're just fucked. Something is not right, and I'm having a hard time finding it. I spent considerable time yesterday watching Chiefs TV at KCC.com, and I'm watching the various squads run through drills and such.
The squad coaches( particularly defensive backs )were running tight practices and working hard. I had entertained the idea that maybe we had some real problems in that area, but I don't buy it anymore.
This is a house that's gone beyond a 'Dust-Devil' or a 'Hoover Upright' in terms cleaning up the trash; the Chiefs need the equivalent of Class 5 tornado to just smash it's way through that organization and let only the strong survive.

Chiefnj2
11-17-2008, 01:27 PM
When you argue line you do realize the Chiefs in the last 8 years have probably used more picks on the defensive line than any other team in football and have about nothing to show for it.

They traded the only guy that panned out for a mid first round pick and will now have to use a top 5 pick to replace him.

StcChief
11-17-2008, 02:21 PM
They traded the only guy that panned out for a mid first round pick and will now have to use a top 5 pick to replace him.
and we got how many picks for Jared Allen? and what is he doing now?

I think the Boise St. 7th rounder is coming down to Earth. or it's an off year.

Micjones
11-17-2008, 02:22 PM
High draft picks alone will not restore respectability to this franchise.
This team needs to learn how to win games.

KCJohnny
11-18-2008, 06:55 AM
I thought we have been over this you never go 1-15 even when you are rebuilding it shows complete failure.

Tell that to the 3-peat Cowboys of the early 90s who went 1-15 in '89.

KCJohnny
11-18-2008, 06:57 AM
What good would drafting Stafford do? He could start his first four games, have a QB rating above 90 and if the Chiefs didn't win, he's shown all he's going to show and we'll need to go in another direction.

Sounds about right doesn't it?

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Brock
11-18-2008, 08:16 AM
Tell that to the 3-peat Cowboys of the early 90s who went 1-15 in '89.

Who drafted a QB number one overall.

Darth CarlSatan
11-18-2008, 08:17 AM
Who drafted a QB number one overall.

And had/have an owner who actually gave two shits.

HemiEd
11-18-2008, 09:36 AM
One of Jason Whitlock's best efforts. Herm succeeded in blowing the motherfucker up, is he smart enough to get them winning again? I doubt it.

Rausch
11-18-2008, 09:49 AM
One of Jason Whitlock's best efforts. Herm succeeded in blowing the mother****er up, is he smart enough to get them winning again? I doubt it.

There was no need to blow it up.

We were a very old yet still somewhat talented team. He decided to gut it and bring in all n00bs to try and perform.

We could have used SOME of the 88 bagillion dollars under the cap to sign a vet or two where we knew we had holes.

Nope.

Now we have NO real leaders on this team. Gono wants out, LJ is smaking his bidge up, and Donnie Edwards is throwing his walker down the hallway to cash his last decent paycheck.

Two expansion teams have won more games in 8 weeks than we have in the last 15...

orange
11-18-2008, 11:18 AM
Who drafted a QB number one overall.

And added Steve Walsh with another 1st-rounder (supplemental) just to be sure - because the QB position is THAT IMPORTANT.

I don't think the Cowboys ever had the lowest cap number in the league, either.

Dylan
11-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Are we really to believe Tyler Thigpen is a miscast quarterback that is being handled correctly?

Here's a story line for Jason Whitlock --One cannot overlook the success stories in Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. Both of these quarterbacks were drafted on teams that spent money on the offensive line and running game in the off-season. They also spent big and re-focused on it's defense.

If you're going to hand the ball over to a rookie quarterback, you better have a strong running game and very solid offensive line. In fact, if you teach him how to manage the game, and you game plan right, you can win games.

Oh so noble of Whitlock to offer his risky analysis on the team and purposely not scrutinize the K.C. Chiefs coaching staff .

How many times was Thigpen sacked Sunday - Four?

Whitlock may be billed as a columnist, but he's anything but..



sorry, if anyone needs a copy editor, it's whitlock.

Darth CarlSatan
11-19-2008, 12:21 AM
Are we really to believe Tyler Thigpen is a miscast quarterback that is being handled correctly?

Here's a story line for Jason Whitlock --One cannot overlook the success stories in Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan. Both of these quarterbacks were drafted on teams that spent money on the offensive line and running game in the off-season. They also spent big and re-focused on it's defense.

If you're going to hand the ball over to a rookie quarterback, you better have a strong running game and very solid offensive line. In fact, if you teach him how to manage the game, and you game plan right, you can win games.

Oh so noble of Whitlock to offer his risky analysis on the team and purposely not scrutinize the K.C. Chiefs coaching staff .

How many times was Thigpen sacked Sunday - Four?

Whitlock may be billed as a columnist, but he's anything but..



sorry, if anyone needs a copy editor, it's whitlock.

"Dylan discovers the inadequacies of Whitlock"!!!!!

Just turning that corner are we?
Travel tip: Seat belt; it's one bumpy ride littered with the paper wrappings of a thousand 'Wimpy Burgers' and the cruel, acidic vinegar-taste of being a "can't do" at Scroat-Sac University...
The saga continues...

Dylan
11-19-2008, 12:38 AM
"Dylan discovers the inadequacies of Whitlock"!!!!!

Just turning that corner are we?
Travel tip: Seat belt; it's one bumpy ride littered with the paper wrappings of a thousand 'Wimpy Burgers' and the cruel, acidic vinegar-taste of being a "can't do" at Scroat-Sac University...
The saga continues...

LMAO

I had to edit this post --

I'm hoping you got a chance to read it. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/big-grin.gif