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KCChiefsFan88
11-17-2008, 03:05 AM
I'd like to interrupt the Wargarbage Illustrated-led Tyler Thigpen orgies to return the focus on why Herm must be fired after this season, in order for this franchise to begin to rise up from Dictator Carl/Herm's Reign of Terror.

Why Herm must be fired:

1) Under Herm, the Chiefs are a combined 5-19 the past two seasons. That would be the worst record in the league (worse than Detoilet and the Raiders) since the start of the 2007 season.

2) The main reason the Chiefs have shown improvement during the past month or so (and it is important to note that the Chiefs "improvement" still has not produced a victory since September) is because they have gone anti-Herm on offense. Utilizing a pass-oriented, spread offense is the complete antithesis of Herm's run 99.9% of the time approach on offense. The fact the Chiefs only signs of life has resulted from the team going AGAINST Herm's philosophy speaks volumes about the failures of Herm and his philosophy.

3) The Chiefs defense (let's recall the primary reason Herm was hired as Chiefs head coach was because of his so-called expertise on defense) is currently ranked 32nd in yards per game allowed and 28th in points per game allowed. The Chiefs defense is just as bad, if not worse than Greg Robinson's defenses during the Vermeil years.

4) The majority of Herm's draft picks on defense have yet to make an impact and some of his high profile picks such as Tamba Hali and Tank/Turk are approaching the "bust" status. The highest profile draft pick on defense (and on the entire team) during the Herm era, Glenn Dorsey has barely even registered a pulse this season.

5) Brodie Croyle, Herm's appointed QB of the Future has been a complete flop. Herm's blind faith in a guy who obviously lacked the physical tools/durability to be a legit NFL QB has essentially flushed the last two seasons down the toilet.

6) Herm is a failure based on the metrics for success defined by Clark Hunt prior to this season. Clark Hunt made it clear he wanted to see the Chiefs "compete for a playoff spot" and show "improvement as the season progresses". Even in a weaker AFC (and a historically weak AFC West), the Chiefs at 1-9 were eliminated from playoff contention back in May. "Improvement as the season progresses" should equate to wins and so far the Chiefs have exactly one win this season (which was back in September when 50 year old Damon Huard was the team's starting QB).

the Talking Can
11-17-2008, 05:04 AM
plus, he sucks

bigkyle76
11-17-2008, 04:51 PM
No did you ever even play football? this team is headed in the right direction the defense is young and is nearly complete and the offense is getting their. we need a tough coach to keep this team disciplined.with out herm this rebuilding could take an extra couple years and as for the draft picks thats carl perderson's business.

Douche Baggins
11-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Tank is far from a bust. He's a good player who may someday be a Pro Bowl player.

suds79
11-17-2008, 05:23 PM
No did you ever even play football? this team is headed in the right direction the defense is young and is nearly complete and the offense is getting their. we need a tough coach to keep this team disciplined.with out herm this rebuilding could take an extra couple years and as for the draft picks thats carl perderson's business.

Wow lay off the Kool-Aid man.

Headed in the right direction? 1-19. You are what your record is.

Defense nearly complete? The defensive line has been a complete bust and is on pace to set an NFL record with the fewest # of sacks in a season by a unit.... Ever. Our Lbers are a mess, our Safties are just average and they're all coached by one sorry @ss defensive coordinator whos former players all seem to have success after they leave KC. Please tell me where they're on track.

Pestilence
11-17-2008, 05:34 PM
Tank is actually one of the bright spots this year on our defense. I wouldn't call him a bust. Turk is hot and cold but I think he could be a good rotational DE. Tamba was moved to the wrong spot...which is why he has sucked (Herms/Guns fault).

Herm still needs to go though.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:36 PM
Defense nearly complete......for the love of God....they need a ton of guys.

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 05:38 PM
Wow lay off the Kool-Aid man.

Headed in the right direction? 1-19. You are what your record is.

Defense nearly complete? The defensive line has been a complete bust and is on pace to set an NFL record with the fewest # of sacks in a season by a unit.... Ever. Our Lbers are a mess, our Safties are just average and they're all coached by one sorry @ss defensive coordinator whos former players all seem to have success after they leave KC. Please tell me where they're on track.

Even with everything you've said as the honest truth, this team, with all it's flaws, could be honestly be anywhere from 2-8 to 5-5 with nothing more than a different coaching staff.

Call me a homer if you want, but imagine this team with say, Mike Tomlin as HC.

It's hard to imagine this team not winning the NE game, and at least 3 of the last 4.

And they sure as hell wouldn't have been flat-out embarrassed by the Falcons and Panthers.

Fixing the front 7, and getting a competent staff will do wonders for this team, IMO.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:39 PM
Yes but I think that says more about the rest of the league, I want to be able to beat the Titans and the Giants not just beat the other bad teams.

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 05:43 PM
Yes but I think that says more about the rest of the league, I want to be able to beat the Titans and the Giants not just beat the other bad teams.

New England: 6-4

Tampa: 7-3

Jets: 7-3

Saints: 5-5

Chargers: 4-6


Records for NO and SD aside, I don't see a single bad team on that list. Injuries have decimated the Chargers and the Saints.

If those 5 games I mentioned had been against STL, Detroit, etc, then I'd agree with you.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:45 PM
I think this is just a horrendous NFL season, i see alot of blah teams and bad teams.

I think whoever wins the bowl this year should send the Chiefs some money because if Brady was playing the Pats would be mowing everyone down.

Right now all I see is the Giants and the Titans who I'm not sold on I see them as the 90s Chiefs, and then you have the Cowboys trying to get back in this thing, unless some team like Arizona jumps out of nowhere this is just a very blah year.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 05:48 PM
i think tank and GD have come on alot the past few weeks. both have looked good. NEITHER ARE OR WILL BE BUSTS IMO

The Bad Guy
11-17-2008, 05:48 PM
You know what the best part of this board is?

Fucking noobs coming from all over the place to tell people that this team is headed in the right direction.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:49 PM
I think we have the most positive fan base in history for a 1-9 team.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 05:50 PM
You know what the best part of this board is?

Fucking noobs coming from all over the place to tell people that this team is headed in the right direction.

especially when they cant even spell peterson right

Sure-Oz
11-17-2008, 05:50 PM
No did you ever even play football? this team is headed in the right direction the defense is young and is nearly complete and the offense is getting their. we need a tough coach to keep this team disciplined.with out herm this rebuilding could take an extra couple years and as for the draft picks thats carl perderson's business.

ROFL

Nearly complete??? Man that 6 sacks and one of the worst defenses in the NFL, as in nearly complete in 20 years, is that you Carl?

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:51 PM
ROFL

Nearly complete??? Man that 6 sacks and one of the worst defenses in the NFL, as in nearly complete in 20 years, is that you Carl?

It is the worst defense isn't it?

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 05:52 PM
I think this is just a horrendous NFL season, i see alot of blah teams and bad teams.

I think whoever wins the bowl this year should send the Chiefs some money because if Brady was playing the Pats would be mowing everyone down.

Right now all I see is the Giants and the Titans who I'm not sold on I see them as the 90s Chiefs, and then you have the Cowboys trying to get back in this thing, unless some team like Arizona jumps out of nowhere this is just a very blah year.

Why?

Because your teams aren't getting it done?

There are 3 entire divisions in which all the teams are .500 or above, and another where 3 out of the 4 teams are .500 or above.

Maybe you're just butthurt that the best teams this year don't rely on airing the ball out - and that goes against your opinion of what a team has to do to be great?

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:54 PM
It's because no one is great....if there is no team to really hate or really like the game gets boring.

No one hates the Titans, I find them more boring than anything.

I find myself wanting the Cowboys to turn it around and see Arizona roll with this thing so a couple of the more exciting teams can get in this.

Sure-Oz
11-17-2008, 05:55 PM
It is the worst defense isn't it?

Pretty much, im still suprised teams aren't scoring 40+ though each time

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 05:56 PM
It's because no one is great....if there is no team to really hate or really like the game gets boring.

No one hates the Titans, I find them more boring than anything.

I find myself wanting the Cowboys to turn it around and see Arizona roll with this thing so a couple of the more exciting teams can get in this.

Thanks for making my point.

BigRock
11-17-2008, 05:56 PM
This thread went almost 12 hours without a reply until the dude with 4 posts bumped it. So close and yet so far.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Thanks for making my point.

Sorry, I find this to be a blah year and I know alot of people that feel the same.

I'd rather hate the 10-0 Pats and see them set records than watch the Titans.

doomy3
11-17-2008, 05:59 PM
I'd like to interrupt the Wargarbage Illustrated-led Tyler Thigpen orgies to return the focus on why Herm must be fired after this season, in order for this franchise to begin to rise up from Dictator Carl/Herm's Reign of Terror.

Why Herm must be fired:

1) Under Herm, the Chiefs are a combined 5-19 the past two seasons. That would be the worst record in the league (worse than Detoilet and the Raiders) since the start of the 2007 season.

This is a rebuild year. Teams go through this, and the years of trading away draft picks for old players put us in this position. Blame Vermeil/Carl for that. Not Herm.

2) The main reason the Chiefs have shown improvement during the past month or so (and it is important to note that the Chiefs "improvement" still has not produced a victory since September) is because they have gone anti-Herm on offense. Utilizing a pass-oriented, spread offense is the complete antithesis of Herm's run 99.9% of the time approach on offense. The fact the Chiefs only signs of life has resulted from the team going AGAINST Herm's philosophy speaks volumes about the failures of Herm and his philosophy.

Or the argument could be made that Herm adjusted the offense. He changed his philosophy based on the players we had, plus adjusted because his smashmouth style wasn't working with these players. To be honest though, his "run 99.9% of the time" offense is being proven to work right now with the right players. The Panthers, Titans, Jaguars, Steelers, Giants, which are some of the top teams in the league right now. It's the players, not the philosophy.

3) The Chiefs defense (let's recall the primary reason Herm was hired as Chiefs head coach was because of his so-called expertise on defense) is currently ranked 32nd in yards per game allowed and 28th in points per game allowed. The Chiefs defense is just as bad, if not worse than Greg Robinson's defenses during the Vermeil years.

This is true. However, we are playing without our top LB, DE, 2 CBs, plus several other guys who are in the rotation. Yes, I realize injuries are part of the game, but we are picking guys off the street and putting them in key situations. I don't know if there's a coach in the NFL that an do that.

4) The majority of Herm's draft picks on defense have yet to make an impact and some of his high profile picks such as Tamba Hali and Tank/Turk are approaching the "bust" status. The highest profile draft pick on defense (and on the entire team) during the Herm era, Glenn Dorsey has barely even registered a pulse this season.

Flowers and Carr are our best corners and both are rookies. And both look damn good. Tank has looked very good this year. Dorsey will be fine. As you can see from Tyler's development, DTs take a year to adjust. Even the best like Haynesworth took time to adjust. Don't forget guys like Bowe, Charles, Cottam, and Albert, who all look like good picks. And I think Pollard and Page have improved a little this year, although they still may not be the safeties of the future.

5) Brodie Croyle, Herm's appointed QB of the Future has been a complete flop. Herm's blind faith in a guy who obviously lacked the physical tools/durability to be a legit NFL QB has essentially flushed the last two seasons down the toilet.

If you'regoing to throw him under a bus for that, don't forget to mention that he literally snatched Thigpen off a practice squad for NOTHING. IF, which is still a big if, Thigpen continues his play and becomes a QBOTF, that WAY more than makes up for playing Brodie after drafting him in the third round. I would still much prefer to take a risk on a young guy with some upside like Croyle than to trade high draft picks for washed up QBs like we had done time and time again before Herm.

While we're talking about getting something for nothing, don't forget to give him some credit for plucking Bradley off waivers, which looks like a great move.

In fact, our current WRs look to be better than any receiving duo we ever had under Vermeil. We aren't starting anyone like Samie Parker anymore.

6) Herm is a failure based on the metrics for success defined by Clark Hunt prior to this season. Clark Hunt made it clear he wanted to see the Chiefs "compete for a playoff spot" and show "improvement as the season progresses". Even in a weaker AFC (and a historically weak AFC West), the Chiefs at 1-9 were eliminated from playoff contention back in May. "Improvement as the season progresses" should equate to wins and so far the Chiefs have exactly one win this season (which was back in September when 50 year old Damon Huard was the team's starting QB).

You really don't feel like the Chiefs have shown improvement as the season has progressed? I think they obviously have. No, we aren't competing for a playoff spot this year, but this is a rebuild, and I think as long as there is noticable improvement, that is all you can ask for this year.



.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:00 PM
Sorry, I find this to be a blah year and I know alot of people that feel the same.

I'd rather hate the 10-0 Pats and see them set records than watch the Titans.

10-0 is 10-0 it really doesnt matter how or why does it? AND they have won games in all types of ways. dangerous dangerous team IMO

Mecca
11-17-2008, 06:02 PM
10-0 is 10-0 it really doesnt matter how or why does it? AND they have won games in all types of ways. dangerous dangerous team IMO

I watch football for entertainment, outside of the Chiefs I'm watching the games because I like football, yesterdays Chargers Steelers game did not entertain me...

I much prefer what the Pats were doing last year or I like watching Arizona.

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 06:02 PM
Sorry, I find this to be a blah year and I know alot of people that feel the same.

I'd rather hate the 10-0 Pats and see them set records than watch the Titans.

Boy, you must be crushed every February when a run-first, smashmouth team wins the Super Bowl...

Tennessee is 10-0 with Kerry fucking Collins at QB.

The Patriots are 6-4 without Tom Brady.

The NFC is a fucking streetfight, minus the Lions, Rams, Hawks and 49ers.

Indianapolis and the Chargers have fallen.

The Jets have risen.

Yeah, this season really sucks...

Mecca
11-17-2008, 06:03 PM
Well I'm pulling for Arizona.

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 06:05 PM
10-0 is 10-0 it really doesnt matter how or why does it? AND they have won games in all types of ways. dangerous dangerous team IMO

It matters because Mecca feels that the only way you can win in this league is with a record setting air attack.

Teams like the Titans, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Redskins, Panthers, etc. invalidate his opinion.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:08 PM
I watch football for entertainment, outside of the Chiefs I'm watching the games because I like football, yesterdays Chargers Steelers game did not entertain me...

I much prefer what the Pats were doing last year or I like watching Arizona.

so basically you dont like defense? hey the titans ARE throwing the ball lately, maybe you should pay attention

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:09 PM
It matters because Mecca feels that the only way you can win in this league is with a record setting air attack.

Teams like the Titans, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Redskins, Panthers, etc. invalidate his opinion.

OH NO NOT THAT.

Short Leash Hootie
11-17-2008, 06:10 PM
Well I'm pulling for Arizona.

same team you were mocking for benching Leinart? I knew Warner was going to be a stud in that offense...

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 06:11 PM
same team you were mocking for benching Leinart? I knew Warner was going to be a stud in that offense...

LMAO

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:12 PM
same team you were mocking for benching Leinart? I knew Warner was going to be a stud in that offense...


:doh!:flip flopping again man this guy is sounding more and more like clay....

Dylan
11-17-2008, 06:23 PM
Mecca said:
I think whoever wins the bowl this year should send the Chiefs some money because if Brady was playing the Pats would be mowing everyone down.

.

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 06:25 PM
I think whoever wins the bowl this year should send the Chiefs some money because if Brady was playing the Pats would be mowing everyone down.

.

ROFL

Yep, just like last year.

Well, at least until it mattered most, I guess...

Mecca
11-17-2008, 06:38 PM
Alright, that's nice, I was just talking about what I preferred to watch, if you all want some 10-6 be my guest but that isn't what I like watching.

luv
11-17-2008, 06:43 PM
I think we have the most positive fan base in history for a 1-9 team.

Because people aren't jumping off the bandwagon?

Mecca
11-17-2008, 06:45 PM
Because people aren't jumping off the bandwagon?

Generally you don't hear that you're moving in the right direction when you've lost 6 in a row and 18 of 19.

luv
11-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Why?

Because your teams aren't getting it done?

There are 3 entire divisions in which all the teams are .500 or above, and another where 3 out of the 4 teams are .500 or above.

Maybe you're just butthurt that the best teams this year don't rely on airing the ball out - and that goes against your opinion of what a team has to do to be great?

I'd much rather watch a close ballgame. Blowouts are boring, even if it's your team. I mean, it's good, but not exciting to watch.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:47 PM
Generally you don't hear that you're moving in the right direction when you've lost 6 in a row and 18 of 19.

you cant see that we are a MUCH different(and better) team now than at the start of the season?(no thanks to herm imo) now if it could just translate into wins...

luv
11-17-2008, 06:49 PM
Generally you don't hear that you're moving in the right direction when you've lost 6 in a row and 18 of 19.

If we were to win some, you might actually have to kind of agree that we've improved.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:51 PM
If we were to win some, you might actually have to kind of agree that we've improved.

no he wouldnt he's already said that 1 superbowl doesnt mean much you have to win several to actually mean anything. funny he's already setting up his defense for that.

Mecca
11-17-2008, 06:52 PM
They're better than they were but what's that say they were so bad it was the worst thing ever to watch.

Also for the close games comment, yes if it's a certain kind of close game.....yesterday the chargers/steelers was close, I found it boring.

The Bad Guy
11-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I'd much rather watch a close ballgame. Blowouts are boring, even if it's your team. I mean, it's good, but not exciting to watch.

Spoken like someone who hasn't followed football very long.

I'll take a 56-0 blowout every Sunday and love every minute of it.

JASONSAUTO
11-17-2008, 06:57 PM
Spoken like someone who hasn't followed football very long.

I'll take a 56-0 blowout every Sunday and love every minute of it.

me too as long as it's the chiefs winning, but to watch another game i want it close and exciting

luv
11-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Spoken like someone who hasn't followed football very long.

I'll take a 56-0 blowout every Sunday and love every minute of it.

Excuse me? Just because I like close games and you don't gives you zero right to judge me.

MahiMike
11-17-2008, 07:05 PM
No did you ever even play football? this team is headed in the right direction the defense is young and is nearly complete and the offense is getting their. we need a tough coach to keep this team disciplined.with out herm this rebuilding could take an extra couple years and as for the draft picks thats carl perderson's business.

Bring your playbook. Turk wants to see you.

Short Leash Hootie
11-17-2008, 07:12 PM
It is the worst defense isn't it?

our best defensive plays yesterday were wide open drops by New Orleans' receivers!

luv
11-17-2008, 07:17 PM
our best defensive plays yesterday were wide open drops by New Orleans' receivers!

Heh. My dad turned to me yesterday and said you know it's bad when your defensive strategy is to hope the other team drops the ball.

Stinger
11-17-2008, 07:51 PM
Spoken like someone who hasn't followed football very long.

I'll take a 56-0 blowout every Sunday and love every minute of it.

:spock:

WTH??? I am sorry but part of the allure of football is the hard nose fighting punch counter punch games. Everyone like scoring but a blow out, they are nice every once in a while, but come on closer games (not necessarily low scoring games mind you) are a lot more fun. Especially if you are the victor.

The Bad Guy
11-17-2008, 08:22 PM
Excuse me? Just because I like close games and you don't gives you zero right to judge me.

Please. You admitted on this board that you haven't followed the NFL long at all.

The Bad Guy
11-17-2008, 08:24 PM
:spock:

WTH??? I am sorry but part of the allure of football is the hard nose fighting punch counter punch games. Everyone like scoring but a blow out, they are nice every once in a while, but come on closer games (not necessarily low scoring games mind you) are a lot more fun. Especially if you are the victor.

They are a lot more fun for you.

I'm tired of the nail-bitting, scratch it out games. I want a dominant Chiefs team that shitbeats people.

dirk digler
11-17-2008, 08:34 PM
I think this is just a horrendous NFL season, i see alot of blah teams and bad teams.

I think whoever wins the bowl this year should send the Chiefs some money because if Brady was playing the Pats would be mowing everyone down.

Right now all I see is the Giants and the Titans who I'm not sold on I see them as the 90s Chiefs, and then you have the Cowboys trying to get back in this thing, unless some team like Arizona jumps out of nowhere this is just a very blah year.

I don't consider the defending SB champs as a blah team.

dirk digler
11-17-2008, 08:39 PM
They are a lot more fun for you.

I'm tired of the nail-bitting, scratch it out games. I want a dominant Chiefs team that shitbeats people.

I want the Chiefs to beat every team 63-0 but when watching the other games I love them when they are close and comes down to the last play.

The 90's were a great time to be a Chiefs fan but I think I had at least 10 heart attacks

OnTheWarpath58
11-17-2008, 09:13 PM
I can't believe people are arguing over how the team wins.

49-3 or 3-0, a win is a fucking win, for fucks sake.

Christ, there are people acting like they'd rather lose a game 37-36 than win a game 6-3.

That is fucking ridiculous.