Activist: 'Pastor to presidents' replaced by gay bishop

[KCJohnny]

Activist: 'Pastor to presidents' replaced by gay bishop Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 11/12/2008 6:50:00 AM<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var addthis_pub = 'onenewsnow';</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://s9.addthis.com/js/widget.php?v=10" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

<STORYLEAD>

http://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedImages/Media/Images/Mugs/Vicki%20Gene%20Robinson.jpgA conservative Christian activist says it's a sad omen for the Obama administration and the United States that Barack Obama has been seeking guidance from the Episcopal Church's first openly homosexual bishop.</STORYLEAD>

<STORYBODY>The Times of London reports that the president-elect sought out New Hampshire homosexual bishop Vicki Gene Robinson for advice three times during his presidential campaign. Robinson, whose ordination in the Episcopal Church has caused a deep rift within the Anglican Communion, was reportedly sought out by Obama to discuss what it feels like to be "first."

Robinson notes in their three private conversations, Obama voiced his support for "equal civil rights" for homosexuals and described the election as a "religious experience." Peter LaBarbera, president of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality (http://americansfortruth.com/), believes Obama's consultations with Robinson show the true tenor of his upcoming administration.

"It looks like Billy Graham has been replaced by a gay bishop. We're moving to, perhaps, our first anti-Christian president; it's beyond post-Christian. Gene Robinson advocates homosexuality as part of the Christian experience," he explains. "Now Bible-believing Christians cannot accept that. Homosexual practice is sinful, as taught by the scriptures. This man [Obama] pretends to be faithful to Christianity, even as he works very hard to undermine it."

LaBarbera suggests Robinson may possibly replace Jeremiah Wright as one of Obama's main spiritual advisers. Wright was Obama's Chicago pastor for 20 years before disassociating with the controversial preacher during the presidential campaign.</STORYBODY>

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[penchief]

You must be one of those shining examples of right wing tolerance that your rightie brethren keep talking about.

[Adept Havelock]

Damn. I was hoping he'd pick an Imam or Richard Dawkins and really send folks into a hissy-fit.

[Sully]

Other than the author of the article's insults, I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean...not even a little bit.

[KCJohnny]

Other than the author of the article's insults, I don't see a problem with this at all. I mean...not even a little bit.

Telling. Obviously you have never read Romans chapter or 1 or just decided to flush the Apostle paul's theology willy-nilly. Nice.

[Sully]

Here's where I post the greatest TV quote, ever. It so nicely sums up my view of people who use the scripture as a weapon...

I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? [silence in the room] While thinking about that can I ask another? My chief-of-staff, Leo McGarry, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police?

"Here's one that's really important, 'cause we've got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean, Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side-by-side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you.

[Brock]

This is okay with me.

[jAZ]

The thread is kinda stupid... but that subject line is super-stupid.

Thanks, that is all.

[mlyonsd]

It seems to me seeking advice from a gay Bishop is way way better than from a racist Reverend.

[KCJohnny]

Here's where I post the greatest TV quote, ever. It so nicely sums up my view of people who use the scripture as a weapon...

LOL! Comparing Sacred Writ with Hollywood throw aways.

No reply necessary.

[Sully]

You should actually read it.

[splatbass]

We're moving to, perhaps, our first anti-Christian president;

I think that would have been Jefferson.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Up is down and down is up. There are alot of Satan worshippers running amok.

[Pitt Gorilla]

The bishop is anti-Christian? Uh, ok.

[SHTSPRAYER]

The bishop is anti-Christian? Uh, ok.

The Episcopal church is a joke. They stand for nothing, thats why their membership has dwindled to nothing. Go visit an Episcopal church, you'll see more lesbians than you will at a WNBA game.

[Pitt Gorilla]

The Episcopal church is a joke. They stand for nothing, thats why their membership has dwindled to nothing. Go visit an Episcopal church, you'll see more lesbians than you will at a WNBA game.Perhaps it is. I'm just trying to figure out the anti-Christian angle.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Perhaps it is. I'm just trying to figure out the anti-Christian angle.

I find it amusing that the secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY are so enthralled with B.O.'s pseudochristianity.

Just as long as it is being bastardized and mocked, the O-Bots love it.

And appointing a gay episcopal bishop is a mockery.

[penchief]

I find it amusing that the secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY are so enthralled with B.O.'s pseudochristianity.

Just as long as it is being bastardized and mocked, the O-Bots love it.

And appointing a gay episcopal bishop is a mockery.

This is another example of that tolerance that you love to tout?

[Jenson71]

The only people who would care about this are those that need their religious beliefs validated by politicians.

[SHTSPRAYER]

This is another example of that tolerance that you love to tout?

The only one you are BSing is yourelf.

you promote B.O.'s faux christianity to mock true christianity.

[SHTSPRAYER]

The only people who would care about this are those that need their religious beliefs validated by politicians.

Fair enough, I made my point and now I'll depart this thread.

[Brock]

The only one you are BSing is yourelf.

you promote B.O.'s faux christianity to mock true christianity.

Yeah, everybody thinks they know their religion is the right one.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Yeah, everybody thinks they know their religion is the right one.

That's BS. B.O. identifies himself as a Christian, yet there is very little in his words and actions that confirm his claim.

[penchief]

The only one you are BSing is yourelf.

you promote B.O.'s faux christianity to mock true christianity.

I don't promote anyone's Christianity. I promote tolerance, understanding, and cooperation for the sake of those virtues alone. I suspect Christ promoted those virtues for their own sake, as well.

[Jilly]

Telling. Obviously you have never read Romans chapter or 1 or just decided to flush the Apostle paul's theology willy-nilly. Nice.


You want to go with this KCJohnny? Seriously, do you want to start this discussion? Cuz I'll go with you here.

[Sully]

I believe, by Obama's actions and words, that he is a Christian.

[SHTSPRAYER]

I don't promote anyone's christianity. I promote tolerance, understanding, and cooperation for the sake of those virtues alone. I suspect Christ promoted those virtues for their own sake, as well.


Although Jesus promoted those things (in their true sense, not in any ideological left wing bastardization of those words) you don't need Christ just to promote virtues, tolerance, and understanding.

If that is all Christ promoted, his coming was meaningless.

[penchief]

I believe, by Obama's actions and words, that he is a Christian.

He certainly acts more like a true Christian than all the so called Christians who can't find anything better to do than spend their waking hours to wage a hate campaign against him.

[Dave Lane]

How did KCJ get this job? Well I guess congrats to Johnny on the promotion!

[penchief]

Although Jesus promoted those things (in their true sense, not in any ideological left wing bastardization of those words) you don't need Christ just to promote virtues, tolerance, and understanding.

Exactly. But if you are going to call yourself a Christian I would think that you would choose to practice what he preached.

If that is all Christ promoted, his coming was meaningless.

But those who don't consider themselves Christians but who still value those virtues and honor Christ's teaching through the practice of those virtues also believe that Christians have right to live in harmony with those who don't surrender themselves to any particular faith. Why do Christian righties feel the need to ostracize those who don't believe exactly the same as they do?

By the way, who are you to presume what is in Barack Obama's heart?

[Laz]

teh gheys are coming, teh gheys are coming


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pope1982/Goodies/oh-noes.jpg

[SHTSPRAYER]

Why do Christian righties feel the need to ostracize those who don't believe exactly the same as they do?



You'll have to ask them that. I don't proselytize.

By the way, who are you to presume what is in Barack Obama's heart

You will know them by them by their fruit.

[penchief]

You'll have to ask them that. I don't proselytize.

By the way, who are you to presume what is in Barack Obama's heart

You will know them by them by their fruit.

I'm not presuming anything. I'm taking him at his word. You are the one who is waging a campaign to discredit him. You are the one calling him a liar.

[SHTSPRAYER]

I'm taking him at his word. You are the one who is waging a campaign to discredit him.

Hey look, anyone can claim to be a Christian. Only one court of law can prove it.

Gotta run. Peace.

[penchief]

Hey look, anyone can claim to be a Christian. Only one court of law can prove it.

Gotta run. Peace.

I guess you should let that court of law be his judge instead of you.

[Brock]

That's BS. B.O. identifies himself as a Christian, yet there is very little in his words and actions that confirm his claim.

The same could be said of you.

[jettio]

Unless Obama was getting interior decorating or party planning advice this is alarming news.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I find it amusing that the secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY are so enthralled with B.O.'s pseudochristianity.

Just as long as it is being bastardized and mocked, the O-Bots love it.

And appointing a gay episcopal bishop is a mockery.Who are the "secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY" on this board? You seem to have identified them.

[Adept Havelock]

The same could be said of you.

:clap:

Who are the "secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY" on this board? You seem to have identified them.

I suspect he'll name IJH and I, for starters. Oddly enough, I don't hate Christianity or any other religion. I simply find them irrelevant to my life, unless people start deciding to "legislate" some of their ideals which I oppose. In that case, I'll do what I always have...donate money, time, and work to the opposition. :shrug:

[SHTSPRAYER]

Who are the "secularist's who HATE CHRISTIANITY" on this board? You seem to have identified them.

Did I say "on this board"?

[SHTSPRAYER]

The same could be said of you.

Thank God (literally) a moron like you isn't my judge.

[bango]

Telling. Obviously you have never read Romans chapter or 1 or just decided to flush the Apostle paul's theology willy-nilly. Nice.

There was not a chance that Paul's own feelings spilled out into his writtings? like the ones that were fairly pro-government, the one that treated the Jews so great. Is it okay to move on and maybe live in the world today, or should we continue to rule everyone's life with two thousand year old law?

[bango]

Fair enough, I made my point and now I'll depart this thread.

Wow. I never thought that we would agree. You did not follow through though so technically this never happned.

[bango]

Exactly. But if you are going to call yourself a Christian I would think that you would choose to practice what he preached.



But those who don't consider themselves Christians but who still value those virtues and honor Christ's teaching through the practice of those virtues also believe that Christians have right to live in harmony with those who don't surrender themselves to any particular faith. Why do Christian righties feel the need to ostracize those who don't believe exactly the same as they do?

By the way, who are you to presume what is in Barack Obama's heart?

Is it okay if I field this one for him?

[bango]

Thank God (literally) a moron like you isn't my judge.

More of that Christian Love that we all keep on hearing about, hearing about, hearing about...

[SHTSPRAYER]

More of that Christian Love that we all keep on hearing about, hearing about, hearing about...


Riiiiiiiiiiight.

:rolleyes:

[bango]

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

:rolleyes:

I would give you some rep for not calling me any names, but you did use a smiley. I should dish out some neg rep for the first time. I know that you will say that it does not bother you, but I know better. Why are you so bothered and scared by homosexuals?

[Logical]

Telling. Obviously you have never read Romans chapter or 1 or just decided to flush the Apostle paul's theology willy-nilly. Nice.

So because Paul was a homophobe everyone is supposed to be?

[SHTSPRAYER]

Why are you so bothered and scared by homosexuals?


Dunno Chuckles, why don't you knock on a few doors in Oakland CA and ask that question? Or do you only like asking "how long have you been beating up your wife" questions anonymously on the internet?

[Ultra Peanut]

Cool.

By the way, SHTSPRAYER, you is tired.

[Ultra Peanut]

More of that Christian Love that we all keep on hearing about, hearing about, hearing about...Hate the sinner, not the sin!

Fat people are no longer allowed to eat!

[petegz28]

How can the Left stand for a President who seels spritual guidance from a Christian Pastor? ROFL......

[SHTSPRAYER]

How can the Left stand for a President who seels spritual guidance from a Christian Pastor? ROFL......


Because the left knows he's an atheist, and this whole religion thing with B.O. is a dog and pony show.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Wow. I never thought that we would agree. You did not follow through though so technically this never happned.

That's because brats like you continue to throw darts in my back that I feel compelled to respond to.

[SHTSPRAYER]

More of that Christian Love that we all keep on hearing about, hearing about, hearing about...

Right. I'm supposed to be a floormat to a disrespectful asshole like Brock.

:rolleyes:

[Ultra Peanut]

That's because brats like you continue to throw darts in my back that I feel compelled to respond to.http://i36.tinypic.com/keyyvn.gif

[SHTSPRAYER]

http://i36.tinypic.com/keyyvn.gif


Ha ha.

ha.

[Bowser]

Sully wrecked this thread before it got started.

And did any of the right wingers bitching about this unimportant horseshit read the article? Obama wasn't looking for spiritual guidance, he was wanting to know what it was for the lady to be the first at her job, much as he will be the first (in a way) at what he does.

You fundamentalist pissants need a new hobby.

[Bowser]

The gay issue must be the second most important issue facing our world today, right after the abortion one.

[SHTSPRAYER]

You fundamentalist pissants need a new hobby.

Who's a fundamentalist?

[Ultra Peanut]

OneNewsNow, by the way, is the source of this hilariously awesome (http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/06/christian-news-site-automatically.html) moment over the summer.

http://i36.tinypic.com/sfx7wn.jpg

[SHTSPRAYER]

Peabrain, it's beyond annoying.

[Brock]

Right. I'm supposed to be a floormat to a disrespectful asshole like Brock.

:rolleyes:


Sorry, crybaby. I guess you just can't stand it when someone points out that you're a hypocritical piece of shit.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Sorry, crybaby. I guess you just can't stand it when someone points out that you're a hypocritical piece of shit.

When it actually happens, I'll let you know.

:rolleyes:

[Brock]

When it actually happens, I'll let you know.

:rolleyes:

Pussy.

[BigChiefFan]

Oh no a gay.

He doesn't look right to me, get him up against the wall.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Pussy.

Very well, Brick. That'll be all.

[MagicHef]

Sully wrecked this thread before it got started.

And did any of the right wingers bitching about this unimportant horseshit read the article? Obama wasn't looking for spiritual guidance, he was wanting to know what it was for the lady to be the first at her job, much as he will be the first (in a way) at what he does.

You fundamentalist pissants need a new hobby.

Um, I'm not sure if that was intentional or not, but the bishop is a male. And yes, his parents apparently did name him Vicki.

[SHTSPRAYER]

And yes, his parents apparently did name him Vicki.

It's funny how things work out.

ROFL

[BigChiefFan]

"there's one smoking a joint and another with spots, if I had my way, I'd have all of you shot"

[Ultra Peanut]

Peabrain, it's beyond annoying.That's why they pay you the big bucks, mah boy.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2rh18wp.gif

[SHTSPRAYER]

Peabrain, I'm asking nicely. Please stop the mindless gif's.

[BigChiefFan]

That's why they pay you the big bucks, mah boy.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2rh18wp.gif
:D

[Sully]

It's funny how things work out.

It's like when Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease. Who didn't see that coming?

[SHTSPRAYER]

It's like when Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease. Who didn't see that coming?

I feel horrible about it, but I did laugh.

:evil:

[KCJohnny]

The gay issue must be the second most important issue facing our world today, right after the abortion one.

Well, let's see... can man survive if he kills his offspring? And how can he if procreation is deemed a non-factor in civilized marriage?

This is without a doubt the most clueless, vapid, rootless, uneducated, out of balance, easily duped, godless generation America has ever produced.

You follow Bowser's line of reasoning and you will be the servants of those that know how to exploit your moral insanity.

[Sully]

KCJ,
Are you under the impression that if gays are allowed to marry, heteros will suddenly cease to procreate?
That's what i take from your post above.

[BigChiefFan]

Yes all men and women were put here to fuck like rabbits and produce, produce, produce.

[Jilly]

Well, let's see... can man survive if he kills his offspring? And how can he if procreation is deemed a non-factor in civilized marriage?

This is without a doubt the most clueless, vapid, rootless, uneducated, out of balance, easily duped, godless generation America has ever produced.

You follow Bowser's line of reasoning and you will be the servants of those that know how to exploit your moral insanity.


dude, gay people have been around since Bible times and somehow we've managed to survive....it's been dicey at times, what with the Billions of people crowding each other out in China, but survival of the fittest seems to have won out. Oh wait, you probably don't believe in survival of the fittest and what nots...after all...your fish did eat my Darwin.

[KCJohnny]

dude, gay people have been around since Bible times and somehow we've managed to survive....it's been dicey at times, what with the Billions of people crowding each other out in China, but survival of the fittest seems to have won out. Oh wait, you probably don't believe in survival of the fittest and what nots...after all...your fish did eat my Darwin.

Really? Please cite a historical reference to same sex marriage and the society that prospered while it was practiced.

If you are a darwinist, then you confirm that STDs (such as HIV/AIDS) are nature's way of weeding out people who can't figure out the plumbing their Creator gave them. Average life span of a homosexual male in the US: 41 years. Leading causes of death: STDs and suicide.

You obviously do not have any children.

[Sully]

Wow.
We have our first, "AIDS is to weed out the gheys" sighting.
Welcome to 1984, ladies and gentlemen.

[Ultra Peanut]

Peabrain, I'm asking nicely. Please stop the mindless gif's.Okay, mah boy. I'll just copy and paste worthless tripe then re-post and bold it when nobody pays attention to it instead.

http://i34.tinypic.com/1il8c0.gif

[Ultra Peanut]

Really? Please cite a historical reference to same sex marriage and the society that prospered while it was practiced.

If you are a darwinist, then you confirm that STDs (such as HIV/AIDS) are nature's way of weeding out people who can't figure out the plumbing their Creator gave them. Average life span of a homosexual male in the US: 41 years. Leading causes of death: STDs and suicide.

You obviously do not have any children.http://i34.tinypic.com/2ur2pgi.gif

[Jilly]

Really? Please cite a historical reference to same sex marriage and the society that prospered while it was practiced.

If you are a darwinist, then you confirm that STDs (such as HIV/AIDS) are nature's way of weeding out people who can't figure out the plumbing their Creator gave them. Average life span of a homosexual male in the US: 41 years. Leading causes of death: STDs and suicide.

You obviously do not have any children.

I can't even respond I'm laughing so hard. Seriously, are you serious? Really? And I suppose you get AIDS from drinking fountains too. Really? Are you serious? I hope you wear rubber gloves everywhere you go, my god someone with AIDS may have touched the doorknob before you. Really? Seriously, Really? Are you serious?
It probably doesn't even bother you that the other half of your statistic (if it is even right) is suicide, really, which is the saddest f ing thing about what you just typed.

[KCJohnny]

I can't even respond I'm laughing so hard. Seriously, are you serious? Really? And I suppose you get AIDS from drinking fountains too. Really? Are you serious? I hope you wear rubber gloves everywhere you go, my god someone with AIDS may have touched the doorknob before you. Really? Seriously, Really? Are you serious?
It probably doesn't even bother you that the other half of your statistic (if it is even right) is suicide, really, which is the saddest f ing thing about what you just typed.

I'm not tossing stats around, look it up. You go ahead and laugh. 1 in 4 Americans have a PERMANENT STD. 2 in 5 Americans die before childbirth. 1 in 2 marriages will fail in the US. 3 out of 5 African American pregnancies will end in abortion. Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among Americans under 25. But you go ahead and laugh.

Homosexual sex is the leading cause of HIV/AIDS being introduced into the greater America population. Condoms cannot prevent the transmission of HIV. But you go ahead, laugh and play, have fun and spread misery around while you mock people who fear God and His divine laws.

[Jenson71]

In all fairness, I don't think KCJ is saying AIDS are God's way of weeding out homosexuals.

However, the question put out by Jilly was on "homosexual relations" not "homosexual marriage" as he made it out to be.

Bisexuality was a Greek upperclass thing. All the cool rich kids did it, with old guys. Plato talks a lot about this is one of his dialogues. We have documents showing the middle class railed against this type of behavior. St. Paul didn't like it either; but I don't think we can call him "afraid of homosexuals" - he was simply a man brought up in the Greco-Roman era (where only a limited amount of cool rich were bisexuals to show how Cosmopolitan and "Greek" they were) and in the Jewish tradition, which like most early civilizations, were violently aggresive against that behavior.

Other than believing that 1.) homosexuals today are much more preoccupied by their identity as homosexuals than ever before, and 2.) homosexuality is more than likely more than a simply matter of choice, I make no claim about this but one: The Church should not ordain homosexuals. This seems discriminatory, but I have valid reasons for this opinion: Priests should be celibate, and with only the rare occasion of former Episcopal priests converting, should be "married to none but Christ's Church" thereby making their sexual particularities of no use and importance, and it is entirely divisive and can be answered by Tradition.

[Brock]

The Church should not ordain homosexuals. This seems discriminatory, but I have valid reasons for this opinion: Priests should be celibate, and with only the rare occasion of former Episcopal priests converting, should be "married to none but Christ's Church" thereby making their sexual particularities of no use and importance, and it is entirely divisive and can be answered by Tradition.

This is the first I've heard that homosexuals can't be celibate.

[Jenson71]

This is the first I've heard that homosexuals can't be celibate.

I should clarify; I meant open, practicing homosexuals.

Of course there are homosexual priests who are more than likely very good men of the faith.

[Sully]

Homosexual sex is the leading cause of HIV/AIDS being introduced into the greater America population.

Partially true.
Homosexual men are the largest group of people who have AIDS, but the fastest growing group are African American, Heterosexual Young Women. How does that fit in with your "plumbing God gave us" rant?

[SHTSPRAYER]

In all fairness, I don't think KCJ is saying AIDS are God's way of weeding out homosexuals.

Moonbat's suffer from cognitive dissonance. They can't help it. They are hardwired that way. If you notice, while having a conversation with a moonbat libtard, they begin to have a conversation with themselves. They inject nonsense and invalid or irrelevant points into the discussion, and then respond to their own obfuscation.

[Jilly]

I'm not tossing stats around, look it up. You go ahead and laugh. 1 in 4 Americans have a PERMANENT STD. 2 in 5 Americans die before childbirth. 1 in 2 marriages will fail in the US. 3 out of 5 African American pregnancies will end in abortion. Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among Americans under 25. But you go ahead and laugh.

Homosexual sex is the leading cause of HIV/AIDS being introduced into the greater America population. Condoms cannot prevent the transmission of HIV. But you go ahead, laugh and play, have fun and spread misery around while you mock people who fear God and His divine laws.

hey, I asked you before if you wanted to go with Scripture on this...but you didn't take me up on it.

The summation of God's Divine Law: Matthew 22:36-39; "'Teacher, which commandment in the law is greatest?' he said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second i like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.

Let me ask you, KCJ - Are you truly fearing God and His divine law? Do you not feel some remorse that a group of people in our world feel so unloved and discriminated against that they have to kill themselves? If you want to fear God and God's Divine Laws, then maybe you yourself should stop with the hatred and discrimination of an entire group of people and start loving them as you love yourself.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Partially true.
Homosexual men are the largest group of people who have AIDS, but the fastest growing group are African American, Heterosexual Young Women.

They catch it from promiscuous bisexual men.

[Brock]

Condoms cannot prevent the transmission of HIV.

ROFL

[KCJohnny]

In all fairness, I don't think KCJ is saying AIDS are God's way of weeding out homosexuals.

However, the question put out by Jilly was on "homosexual relations" not "homosexual marriage" as he made it out to be.

Bisexuality was a Greek upperclass thing. All the cool rich kids did it, with old guys. Plato talks a lot about this is one of his dialogues. We have documents showing the middle class railed against this type of behavior. St. Paul didn't like it either; but I don't think we can call him "afraid of homosexuals" - he was simply a man brought up in the Greco-Roman era (where only a limited amount of cool rich were bisexuals to show how Cosmopolitan and "Greek" they were) and in the Jewish tradition, which like most early civilizations, were violently aggresive against that behavior.

Other than believing that 1.) homosexuals today are much more preoccupied by their identity as homosexuals than ever before, and 2.) homosexuality is more than likely more than a simply matter of choice, I make no claim about this but one: The Church should not ordain homosexuals. This seems discriminatory, but I have valid reasons for this opinion: Priests should be celibate, and with only the rare occasion of former Episcopal priests converting, should be "married to none but Christ's Church" thereby making their sexual particularities of no use and importance, and it is entirely divisive and can be answered by Tradition.

You grossly misrepresent the Judeo-Christian Tradition which unambiguously condemn all homosexual behavior. Paul's "dislike" for queer sex had nothing to do with Helenist values and everything to do with the clear moral standards communicated by Holy Tradition. You have scandalized our Church's firm stand against wicked sexual behavior. You know better than this.

[Jilly]

In all fairness, I don't think KCJ is saying AIDS are God's way of weeding out homosexuals.

However, the question put out by Jilly was on "homosexual relations" not "homosexual marriage" as he made it out to be.

Bisexuality was a Greek upperclass thing. All the cool rich kids did it, with old guys. Plato talks a lot about this is one of his dialogues. We have documents showing the middle class railed against this type of behavior. St. Paul didn't like it either; but I don't think we can call him "afraid of homosexuals" - he was simply a man brought up in the Greco-Roman era (where only a limited amount of cool rich were bisexuals to show how Cosmopolitan and "Greek" they were) and in the Jewish tradition, which like most early civilizations, were violently aggresive against that behavior.

Other than believing that 1.) homosexuals today are much more preoccupied by their identity as homosexuals than ever before, and 2.) homosexuality is more than likely more than a simply matter of choice, I make no claim about this but one: The Church should not ordain homosexuals. This seems discriminatory, but I have valid reasons for this opinion: Priests should be celibate, and with only the rare occasion of former Episcopal priests converting, should be "married to none but Christ's Church" thereby making their sexual particularities of no use and importance, and it is entirely divisive and can be answered by Tradition.

Ordained in the Catholic Church, you mean.

[Sully]

Moonbat's suffer from cognitive dissonance. They can't help it. They are hardwired that way. If you notice, while having a conversation with a moonbat libtard, they begin to have a conversation with themselves. They inject nonsense and invalid or irrelevant points into the discussion, and then respond to their own obfuscation.

Hmmm...
I guess you didn't see this...

If you are a darwinist, then you confirm that STDs (such as HIV/AIDS) are nature's way of weeding out people who can't figure out the plumbing their Creator gave them.

How could we "moonbats" possibly think he was saying what he was obviously saying, there...

[KCJohnny]

hey, I asked you before if you wanted to go with Scripture on this...but you didn't take me up on it.

The summation of God's Divine Law: Matthew 22:36-39; "'Teacher, which commandment in the law is greatest?' he said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second i like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and prophets.

Let me ask you, KCJ - Are you truly fearing God and His divine law? Do you not feel some remorse that a group of people in our world feel so unloved and discriminated against that they have to kill themselves? If you want to fear God and God's Divine Laws, then maybe you yourself should stop with the hatred and discrimination of an entire group of people and start loving them as you love yourself.

Holiness requires obedience. Your definition of compassion requires the confirmation of the condemned in their condemnation. Hardly a compassionate position.

[Sully]

They catch it from promiscuous bisexual men.

What a ridiculous thing to believe.

[SHTSPRAYER]

What a ridiculous thing to believe.


ROFL

Then how do they catch it?

[SHTSPRAYER]

Holiness requires obedience. Your definition of compassion requires the confirmation of the condemned in their condemnation. Hardly a compassionate position.


QFT

:clap:

[Sully]

Then how do they catch it?

Are you really under the impression that only gay folks have/can spread AIDS?

[Jenson71]

You grossly misrepresent the Judeo-Christian Tradition which unambiguously condemn all homosexual behavior. Paul's "dislike" for queer sex had nothing to do with Helenist values and everything to do with the clear moral standards communicated by Holy Tradition. You have scandalized our Church's firm stand against wicked sexual behavior. You know better than this.

I disagree; I clearly stated that the Judiac tradition was against homosexual behavior. I think we have to take in the account that Paul was a Hellenized Jew, he grew up in that culture, and that is what he knows of, whether right or wrong in his beliefs. Why take that in? Because those are facts. I make no judgment in my second paragraph whether those actions are morally right or wrong. I have only upheld the Church's Tradition concerning the celibacy of priests.

I am open to correction if there is any needed.

[Jilly]

Holiness requires obedience. Your definition of compassion requires the confirmation of the condemned in their condemnation. Hardly a compassionate position.

Exactly, Holiness Requires Obedience. Are you Holy in your thoughts of loving your neighbor? I'm not reading anything here that stipulates who we should love. Not one thing. And honestly, I've read the Gospels and never once saw Christ put a stipulation on who he showed compassion to and aren't we to follow him. How are you doing with that? Are you following Christ?

[Jenson71]

Ordained in the Catholic Church, you mean.

Yes. It makes little difference to me what you heretics do; you're all lost anyway. :D

[SHTSPRAYER]

Are you really under the impression that only gay folks have/can spread AIDS?

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.

If you do not share dirty needles, or have sex with someone who does, you will not catch aids.

In spite of all your liberal BS to the contrary, those are the facts.

[Jilly]

Yes. It makes little difference to me what you heretics do; you're all lost anyway. :D

I pretended you said that with an English accent and it made it okay.

[Jenson71]

I pretended you said that with an English accent and it made it okay.

Like Saint Thomas More? I like that.

[Sully]

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.

If you do not share dirty needles, or have sex with someone who does, you will not catch aids.

In spite of all your liberal BS to the contrary, those are the facts.

Any kind of a source for all those "facts?" Because I think you just made them up, to fit your agenda.

[Sully]

Seriously, I just read it again...
90-95% of people with multiple sex partners or IV drug users are prison inmates, prostitutes or homosexuals?
I mean, seriously, do you know more than 5 people who haven't had multiple sex partners?

[SHTSPRAYER]

Seriously, I just read it again...
90-95% of people with multiple sex partners or IV drug users are prison inmates, prostitutes or homosexuals?
I mean, seriously, do you know more than 5 people who haven't had multiple sex partners?

Multiple sex partners with prostitutes, homosexuals/bisexuals, IV drug users.

[Earthling]

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.

If you do not share dirty needles, or have sex with someone who does, you will not catch aids.

In spite of all your liberal BS to the contrary, those are the facts.

This is wrong. Besides blood transfusions there are a number of other ways persons can get this.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Any kind of a source for all those "facts?" Because I think you just made them up, to fit your agenda.

go to the government official site and look at the statistics.

[Ultra Peanut]

Moonbat's suffer from cognitive dissonance.Sweet grammar, mah boy.

http://i34.tinypic.com/fm2q2r.gifhttp://i34.tinypic.com/fm2q2r.gifhttp://i34.tinypic.com/fm2q2r.gif

[SHTSPRAYER]

This is wrong. Besides blood transfusions there are a number of other ways persons can get this.

Very, very rare these days. Next.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Partially true.
Homosexual men are the largest group of people who have AIDS, but the fastest growing group are African American, Heterosexual Young Women.


How many of them are prostitutes are IV drug users?

Here are all the facts:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/index.htm

I know that liberalism prevents you from saying that behavior has consequences, but your lies are killing people.

[Sully]

Where did I say behavior has no consequences? Where did I even imply that? Why are you making things up?
Where in your link does it say 90-95% of people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users are prison inmates, homosexuals or prostitutes.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Where did I say behavior has no consequences? Where did I even imply that? Why are you making things up?
Where in your link does it say 90-95% of people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users are prison inmates, homosexuals or prostitutes.


you can't be this naive. :rolleyes:

What are the stat's on Blacks, both men and female? Like 1 out of 3, right?

[Ultra Peanut]

How many of them are prostitutes are IV drug users?

Here are all the facts:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/index.htm

I know that liberalism prevents you from saying that behavior has consequences, but your lies are killing people.http://i35.tinypic.com/2hf7t04.jpg

[Sully]

Why are you changing the subject?

[SHTSPRAYER]

Why are you changing the subject?

I am???

Like I said, if you aint having gay sex or using IV drugs OR HAVING SEX WITH PEOPLE WHO DO

you can't catch aids.

[Sully]

So no one who has had sex with another straight, drug-free person gets AIDS?

Do you really believe this?

[raybec 4]

The only people who would care about this are those that need their religious beliefs validated by politicians.

That is dead on sir. I believe in Jesus as do my wife and children I do not need nor do I want Obama or KC Johnny for that matter telling me that it is right or wrong.

[SHTSPRAYER]

So no one who has had sex with another straight, drug-free person gets AIDS?

Do you really believe this?

Not in the USA. Probably in Africa. Aids is running rampant in Africa because of rape. one out of three girls in South Africa is raped before they reach twelve.

[Dr. Van Halen]

Ephesian 5:18

"Do not get drunk..."

SINNER!! PAUL HATES DRUNKS!!!!

[NewPhin]

Not in the USA. Probably in Africa. Aids is running rampant in Africa because of rape. one out of three girls in South Africa is raped before they reach twelve.

Don't forget the sex with monkeys... it all boils down to sex with monkeys.

[SHTSPRAYER]

So no one who has had sex with another straight, drug-free person gets AIDS?

Do you really believe this?

Thats not what I said. If you have sex with another straight, drug-free person WHO HAS had sex with somebody who is an IV drug user, or has sex, either gay or straight, with somebody who is, you CAN catch AIDS.

Somewhere in the promiscuous circle there has to be a homosexual or an IV drug user.

AIDS is a behavioral disease. It is total BS to say that "anyone can catch HIV".

[SHTSPRAYER]

Don't forget the sex with monkeys... it all boils down to sex with monkeys.

See, this is why you can't talk sense to moonbats. Fine, be ignorant. Who cares right?

heck, i'm the one who is supposed to be a cross burner, I should be happy blacks are killing themselves because nobody wants to say that HIV is a behavioral disease.

[Sully]

No one said, "Anyone can catch HIV."

You realize the first cases of AIDS most likely occurred in straight people, right?

[Sully]

Who said HIV isn't caused by behavioral factors?


Seriously...why do you constantly make things up, SHIT? You continue to make up your own version of what us "moonbats" are saying, when it hasn't been said.

[NewPhin]

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that 95% of people who have had multiple sexual partners are either prison inmates, prostitutes, or homosexuals. I got damned lucky that I didn't end up in jail, gay, or peddling my ass, I guess. Somehow, I beat the odds!

[Sully]

I can't seem to nail that one down, either, Phin.

[SHTSPRAYER]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that 95% of people who have had multiple sexual partners are either prison inmates, prostitutes, or homosexuals. I got damned


I was typing fast I'm at work. I meant to say that 95% of aids cases are homos. And of the remaining 5%, most of them are lying.

[SHTSPRAYER]

I can't seem to nail that one down, either, Phin.

Are you through playing games, Sully? No? OK who cares. It's only black people killing themselves.

You can go to bed tonight feeling swell about not hurting anybody's feelings or condeming anyones behavior.

...and the band played on.

:rolleyes:

[Ultra Peanut]

Ephesian 5:18

"Do not get drunk..."

SINNER!! PAUL HATES DRUNKS!!!!Drunks are no longer allowed to marry.

[SHTSPRAYER]

No one said, "Anyone can catch HIV."

You realize the first cases of AIDS most likely occurred in straight people, right?


"most likely". OK so we have some hard evidence there. :rolleyes:

[Ultra Peanut]

Are you through playing games, Sully? No? OK who cares. It's only black people killing themselves.

You can go to bed tonight feeling swell about not hurting anybody's feelings or condeming anyones behavior.

...and the band played on.

:rolleyes:http://i35.tinypic.com/2hf7t04.jpg

[SHTSPRAYER]

Partially true.
Homosexual men are the largest group of people who have AIDS, but the fastest growing group are African American, Heterosexual Young Women. How does that fit in with your "plumbing God gave us" rant?


Let's try this again.

Why do you think the fastest growing group are straight, black women?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Not in the USA. Probably in Africa. Aids is running rampant in Africa because of rape. one out of three girls in South Africa is raped before they reach twelve.You must be kidding.

[SHTSPRAYER]

You must be kidding.

About child rape in South Africa? I don't think it's funny.

[Sully]

Nice edit.
Let me answer the statement you first posted. You said 95% of people with AIDS were gay.
According to the cdc, it's 65% (including gay men who shared needles).

Now, to this question...
Why do I think the fastest growing group are straight black (young) women?
Because there is a culture among young people that is very promiscuous. It is prevalent in our music, our TV, and our movies. Unfortunately, education within the inner cities and among African Americans isn't quite the quality it should be. A lack of education can lead a person to low self-worth, which often leads to young men and women using sex as a measure of self-worth. Finally, add in that the health of African Americans in our country, overall, is poor anyway, due to economics, education and motivation, and you can see why it would more quickly fester in that type of environment.

Do you want my dissertation for why the rates are high within the gay community?

[Mr. Kotter]

You must be kidding.


Actually, the figure may be slightly inflated; but not much....from what I've read.

[HolmeZz]

That's BS. B.O. identifies himself as a Christian, yet there is very little in his words and actions that confirm his claim.

His tolerance of people who are different than him seems to be more of a 'Christian' action than any you've displayed on this board.

[Pitt Gorilla]

About child rape in South Africa? I don't think it's funny.I was talking about your response to Sully.

Sully: "So no one who has had sex with another straight, drug-free person gets AIDS?

Do you really believe this?"

You: "Not in the USA. Probably in Africa. Aids is running rampant in Africa because of rape. one out of three girls in South Africa is raped before they reach twelve."

I now see that you've changed your stance, which is probably wise.

[Mr. Kotter]

Nice edit.
Let me answer the statement you first posted. You said 95% of people with AIDS were gay.
According to the cdc, it's 65% (including gay men who shared needles).

Now, to this question...
Why do I think the fastest growing group are straight black (young) women?
Because there is a culture among young people that is very promiscuous. It is prevalent in our music, our TV, and our movies. Unfortunately, education within the inner cities and among African Americans isn't quite the quality it should be. A lack of education can lead a person to low self-worth, which often leads to young men and women using sex as a measure of self-worth. Finally, add in that the health of African Americans in our country, overall, is poor anyway, due to economics, education and motivation, and you can see why it would more quickly fester in that type of environment.

Do you want my dissertation for why the rates are high within the gay community?

Look....education and poverty plays a role; but so does culture. The correlations here are qualitatively researched, not quanitative...and as such, are not strictly a cause and effect relationship between isolated variables. The picture is much more murky than some want to paint it.

[Sully]

Did I not mention culture?

[Mr. Kotter]

Did I not mention culture?

Conflating culture with other variables, is purposefully and deceitfully disingenuous in this case, IMHO. It's political correctness run amuck.

[Sully]

You call it politically correct, I call it accurate.
The focus of the thing was culture. It was the first thing I mentioned, and came back to it several times throughout. But if you don't think economy and education are HUGE contributors to a culture, I don't know what to tell you.

[Ultra Peanut]

While we're on the topic, why do you think homosexuals are more promiscuous, on average? It surely couldn't have anything to do with being shunned by mainstream society and forced into living "on the down low" or in their own little gay ghettos, could it?

[SHTSPRAYER]

Nice edit.
Let me answer the statement you first posted. You said 95% of people with AIDS were gay.
According to the cdc, it's 65% (including gay men who shared needles).




It's actually higher than 65% but many men will not admit they caught it through gay sex. But anyway...

Now, to this question...
Why do I think the fastest growing group are straight black (young) women?
Because there is a culture among young people that is very promiscuous. It is prevalent in our music, our TV, and our movies. Unfortunately, education within the inner cities and among African Americans isn't quite the quality it should be. A lack of education can lead a person to low self-worth, which often leads to young men and women using sex as a measure of self-worth. Finally, add in that the health of African Americans in our country, overall, is poor anyway, due to economics, education and motivation, and you can see why it would more quickly fester in that type of environment.

I see. So once again as par the liberal narrative, it's a "lack of education" (and/or a "lack of adequate medical care").


Do you want my dissertation for why the rates are high within the gay community

Back in the 80's, ACT-UP started a propaganda campaign spreading the lie that hetero's will catch AIDs in epidemic proportions. They spread this fear to pressure the govt to spend more money on research to cure the disease, because gays did not want to accept responsibility for their actions and change their behavior. They continued to go to gay bathouses and have anal sex with dozens of strange men each night, but I'm sure Ultra Peanut can get into greater detail than I can.

Why hasn't this epidemic happened? Because it is a disease spread through a specific behavior, and specific poor hygiene and targets an exclusive group of people.

Prostitutes have horribly bad hygiene. Crystal Magnum (you heard of her, right?) had the sperm and DNA of multiple men (none of the LAcrosse players of course) she had had sex with BEFORE going to her strippers gig. She had sperm in her mouth, in her ass, and in her vagina.

Many of the men who had, and continue to have sex with her, are ex-convicts who had anal sex with other men in prison.

Shall I continue, or are you starting to connect the dots?

HOMOSEXUALS, PROSTITUTES AND IV DRUG USERS, EX CONVICTS.

Avoid that group of people, and avoid people who have sex with that group of people, AND YOU CANNOT CATCH AIDS.

[Sully]

I see. So once again as par the liberal narrative, it's a "lack of education" (and/or a "lack of adequate medical care").

I'll ask again. Why do you feel you need to make things up (or distort) to make your point?

[SHTSPRAYER]

I was talking about your response to Sully.

Sully: "So no one who has had sex with another straight, drug-free person gets AIDS?

Do you really believe this?"

You: "Not in the USA. Probably in Africa. Aids is running rampant in Africa because of rape. one out of three girls in South Africa is raped before they reach twelve."

I now see that you've changed your stance, which is probably wise.

Dickhead, I'm at work, and I'm typing fast. M'kay?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Dickhead, I'm at work, and I'm typing fast. M'kay?I didn't know that being at work would so adversely impact your thought processes. Perhaps you shouldn't post on the company's dime.

[SHTSPRAYER]

I didn't know that being at work would so adversely impact your thought processes. Perhaps you shouldn't post on the company's dime.

And where are you posting from at this hour of the day?

[Pitt Gorilla]

And where are you posting from at this hour of the day?Various locations, none of which impacts my ability to think.

[Mr. Kotter]

While we're on the topic, why do you think homosexuals are more promiscuous, on average? It surely couldn't have anything to do with being shunned by mainstream society and forced into living "on the down low" or in their own little gay ghettos, could it?

Forced? :shrug:

We all make choices, don't we?

:hmmm:

[SHTSPRAYER]

Various locations, none of which impacts my ability to think.

Good for you, Billy!

[SHTSPRAYER]

I'll ask again. Why do you feel you need to make things up (or distort) to make your point?

Where did I distort to make a point? YOU seem to think that straight, black women are the fastest growing group to acquire HIV because of "lack of education". I said it's because of promiscuity with men who have had gay sex in or out of prison, or men who have had sex with IV drug users.

What did I distort?

[Ultra Peanut]

Forced? :shrug:

We all make choices, don't we?

:hmmm:<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8Tc8dDSYxg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8Tc8dDSYxg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Sully]

Where did I distort to make a point? YOU seem to think that straight, black women are the fastest growing group to acquire HIV because of "lack of education". I said it's because of promiscuity with men who have had gay sex in or out of prison, or men who have had sex with IV drug users.

What did I distort?

The fact that "lack of education" is the only factor I mentioned.

[splatbass]

Well, let's see... can man survive if he kills his offspring? And how can he if procreation is deemed a non-factor in civilized marriage?

This is without a doubt the most clueless, vapid, rootless, uneducated, out of balance, easily duped, godless generation America has ever produced.

You follow Bowser's line of reasoning and you will be the servants of those that know how to exploit your moral insanity.

One question, if procreation is so important in marriage, should heterosexual couples that can't reproduce get divorced? Let me know soon, so I can file the papers........:(

[splatbass]

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.



Women can pass HIV on to men. Heterosexual men who have never had sex with a prostitute, another man or an intravenous drug user. You can get AIDS from a woman. YOU can get AIDS from a woman.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Women can pass HIV on to men. Heterosexual men who have never had sex with a prostitute, another man or an intravenous drug user. You can get AIDS from a woman. YOU can get AIDS from a woman.


Uh... yeah, that's what I've been saying: You can get AIDS from a woman WHO HAS HAD SEX WITH an IV drug user, or a man who has had sex with another man.

Hetero to Hetero to Hetero DO NOT CARRY OR SPREAD HIV.

The disease is exclusively predisposed to a circle of prison inmates, ex-cons, prostitutes, IV drug users, homosexuals and bisexuals men.

Sexually avoid those people, and sexually avoid people who have sex with those people, and you will not catch HIV.

Period.

[splatbass]

Uh... yeah, that's what I've been saying: You can get AIDS from a woman WHO HAS HAD SEX WITH an IV drug user, or a man who has had sex with another man.

Hetero to Hetero to Hetero DO NOT CARRY OR SPREAD HIV.

The disease is exclusively predisposed to a circle of prison inmates, ex-cons, prostitutes, IV drug users, homosexuals and bisexuals men.

Sexually avoid those people, and sexually avoid people who have sex with those people, and you will not catch HIV.

Period.

The woman can get it from sex with someone who was not homosexual, etc., who also got it from someone that wasn't, and on and on. There doesn't have to be a homosexual anywhere around the woman you get it from.

[bango]

That's because brats like you continue to throw darts in my back that I feel compelled to respond to.

Seeing as how you continue to pretend that you are an adult, a christian, and morally better than anyone that is here on the board, you could actually be the bigger man that you claim to be and ignore it, or you can continue namcalling. If you keep on namecalling and being drawn in to our "dart throwing", how can you call yourself the bigger man?

[bango]

Dunno Chuckles, why don't you knock on a few doors in Oakland CA and ask that question? Or do you only like asking "how long have you been beating up your wife" questions anonymously on the internet?

You do not even make any damn sense at all.

[bango]

Because the left knows he's an atheist, and this whole religion thing with B.O. is a dog and pony show.

How can you even sit there and call say that someone is an atheist when you do not even know them? Do you actually have any damn proof?

[bango]

Right. I'm supposed to be a floormat to a disrespectful asshole like Brock.

:rolleyes:

How many times are you going to respon to this one post? You are namecalling again. I will give you some credit this time seeing as how it was not directed at me for once. I would keep your dumbass in check on this, but Brock can hold his own and I just want to watch as he does.

[bango]

Who's a fundamentalist?

If the shoe fits, fundie, or do you like hypocrite better?

[Earthling]

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.

If you do not share dirty needles, or have sex with someone who does, you will not catch aids.

In spite of all your liberal BS to the contrary, those are the facts.

You dismissed my post that stated that you can also get thsi fro blood transfusions, stating that it is rare. Yes it is rare, but it still proves your statement is incorrect. Next.

[bango]

I'm not tossing stats around, look it up. You go ahead and laugh. 1 in 4 Americans have a PERMANENT STD. 2 in 5 Americans die before childbirth. 1 in 2 marriages will fail in the US. 3 out of 5 African American pregnancies will end in abortion. Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among Americans under 25. But you go ahead and laugh.

Homosexual sex is the leading cause of HIV/AIDS being introduced into the greater America population. Condoms cannot prevent the transmission of HIV. But you go ahead, laugh and play, have fun and spread misery around while you mock people who fear God and His divine laws.

How the heck is this one happening? Homosexuals are spreading disease among the straights?
God wants us to be afraid of him? Is it okay if I just respect him, or is he so insecure that he needs me to be frightened of him?

[RJ]

"It looks like Billy Graham has been replaced by a gay bishop.





Actually, I think it looks like Ted Haggard has been replaced by a gay bishop.

But that's another story.

[bango]

While we're on the topic, why do you think homosexuals are more promiscuous, on average? It surely couldn't have anything to do with being shunned by mainstream society and forced into living "on the down low" or in their own little gay ghettos, could it?

Do not even give them any ammo like that. Then again if they are going to keep on using unresearched facts then please continue. Most of the homosexuals that I have known are just like everyone else. They all go through a phase where they have a lot of sex with a lot of people just like the straights do. They would like to meet someone and settle down just like the straights do. Many of them have done so. They just can not call it marriage or have any of the same benefits in the US. People like KCJ and SHypocriter think that because in their warped little minds homosex is abnormal that if the homos are involved in one abnormal type of behavior then they do nothing but always act in abnormal ways.

[Ultra Peanut]

You do not even make any damn sense at all.That's why he's a terrible troll. There's no internal consistency.

[bango]

That's why he's a terrible troll. There's no internal consistency.

I thought that he lived under a bridge and beat up little kids when they tried to cross, but what the heck do I know? It was rhetorical so do not answer.

[Bowser]

Um, I'm not sure if that was intentional or not, but the bishop is a male. And yes, his parents apparently did name him Vicki.

It's funny how things work out.

ROFL

Heh, I'll own it. I have a family member named Vicki that's a female. Tangent.

[Bowser]

Well, let's see... can man survive if he kills his offspring? And how can he if procreation is deemed a non-factor in civilized marriage?

This is without a doubt the most clueless, vapid, rootless, uneducated, out of balance, easily duped, godless generation America has ever produced.

You follow Bowser's line of reasoning and you will be the servants of those that know how to exploit your moral insanity.

"Moral Insanity". That's a new one. And I think that we aren't exactly reaching levels of genocide yet, or ever, through abortion. Way to make a mountain out of a pile of shit.

Hey Proctor, is your church one that preaches that women are on Earth to be a man's servant? I'm curious.

[Bowser]

It is exclusively spread through people with multiple sex partners and IV drug users. That group is 90% to 95% prison inmates, prostitutes and homosexuals.

If you do not have unprotected sex with a prostitute, a homosexual, or anybody who does, you will not catch aids.

If you do not share dirty needles, or have sex with someone who does, you will not catch aids.

In spite of all your liberal BS to the contrary, those are the facts.

I had a friend die of HIV due to a blood tranfusion on account of his Hemophilia. He was 15. Stop talking out of your ass to try and look smart. You're failing miserably.

[splatbass]

I had a friend die of HIV due to a blood tranfusion on account of his Hemophilia. He was 15. Stop talking out of your ass to try and look smart. You're failing miserably.

It's hard for him to stop talking out his ass when his head is so far up it.

[Bowser]

It's hard for him to stop talking out his ass when his head is so far up it.

I've jsut reached the point where I can't take him seriously. I picture him typing some offensive shit just to push buttons, and then giggling like a little girl.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

I had a friend die of HIV due to a blood tranfusion on account of his Hemophilia. He was 15. Stop talking out of your ass to try and look smart. You're failing miserably.

Probably from factor 8 which was infected with the virus.

http://thiscanadian.typepad.com/this_canadian/2006/06/another_blood_s.html

[Bowser]

Probably from factor 8 which was infected with the virus.

http://thiscanadian.typepad.com/this_canadian/2006/06/another_blood_s.html


This happened to my friend in the mid to late 80's, so there might be something there.


YouTube vids are dead in that link, btw.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

This happened to my friend in the mid to late 80's, so there might be something there.


YouTube vids are dead in that link, btw.

Bad blood between hemophiliacs, Bayer: Patients sue over tainted transfusions spreading HIV, hep C

San Francisco Chronicle - Tuesday, June 3, 2003
Jim Herron Zamora, Chronicle Staff Writer


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A San Francisco attorney filed a class-action lawsuit Monday on behalf of thousands of hemophiliacs who claim that Bayer Corp. and several other companies knowingly sold blood products contaminated with HIV and hepatitis C.
The lawsuit, filed in federal court in San Francisco, alleges that the companies conspired to sell blood-clotting products that were manufactured using blood from sick, high-risk donors.

The suit also alleges that companies stopped selling the products in the United States because of the known risk of HIV and hepatitis transmission but continued distributing the infected products in Latin America, Asia and Europe in 1984 and 1985.

"Tens of thousands of hemophiliacs globally were infected with HIV or (hepatitis C) after receiving blood products from blood plasma that was originally manufactured in the United States," said San Francisco attorney Robert J. Nelson. "This is a worldwide tragedy. Thousands of hemophiliacs have unnecessarily died from AIDS and many thousands more are infected with HIV or hepatitis C."

The companies named in the suit include Berkeley-based Cutter Biological, which is a division of Bayer; Baxter Healthcare Corp.'s Hyland Pharmaceutical division; Armour Pharmaceutical Co. and Alpha Therapeutic Corp.

Representatives for Bayer, which is headquartered in Germany, could not be reached for comment on Monday night. In earlier published reports, Bayer has denied wrongdoing, saying Cutter acted responsibly.

The focus of the litigation is the hemophiliac medicine, called Factor VIII concentrate, which is used to stop or prevent bleeding in people with blood- clotting problems. Bayer produces the product at a plant in West Berkeley.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Factor VIII was manufactured from plasma from as many 10,000 donors, according to the complaint. Often these donors were low-income people paid to donate plasma. Before there was a screening test to detect HIV in donated blood, thousands of hemophiliacs were infected and developed AIDS.

Bayer and the three other companies paid $600 million in 1997 to settle cases filed in the United States on behalf of hemophiliacs infected in the early 1980s.

The lawsuit alleges there were precautions Bayer and the other companies could have taken such as using unpaid volunteers who were less likely to be intravenous drug users than indigents, homeless people and prison inmates.

"We alleged that they basically turned a blind eye to the screening technologies that were available," Nelson said Monday night. "These companies sought to buy blood to ensure their supply. They basically went to prisons.

They went to the Tenderloin. They went to areas with high ratios of transmittable diseases such as hepatitis C."

In February 1984, American companies began using technology on their plasma products to prevent the spread of diseases. But the lawsuit alleged that the companies continued shipping older stocks of the infected blood product abroad.

The Associated Press contributed to this report. / E-mail Jim Zamora at

jzamora@sfchronicle.com.

http://ww2.aegis.com/news/sc/2003/SC030603.html

[Logical]

"Moral Insanity". That's a new one. And I think that we aren't exactly reaching levels of genocide yet, or ever, through abortion. Way to make a mountain out of a pile of shit.

Hey Proctor, is your church one that preaches that women are on Earth to be a man's servant? I'm curious.Nah,his women are second class citizen that hold no real place in the church unless they are undergoing virgin birth. Sort of a select position.

[HolmeZz]

If human history has taught me anything it's that if you keep oppressing the gheys, they'll eventually go away.

[SHTSPRAYER]

How can you even sit there and call say that someone is an atheist when you do not even know them? Do you actually have any damn proof?

The man has laid down with dogs his entire life. I don't think it requires a stretch of the imagination to think he has fleas.

[SHTSPRAYER]

If human history has taught me anything it's that if you keep oppressing the gheys, they'll eventually go away.

What are your thoughts on 77% of blacks in CA voted for Prop 8?

[SHTSPRAYER]

How many times are you going to respon to this one post? You are namecalling again. I will give you some credit this time seeing as how it was not directed at me for once. I would keep your dumbass in check on this, but Brock can hold his own and I just want to watch as he does.

Hey kid? Do yourself a favor, get a puppy. You need something to nurture and boss around.

[SHTSPRAYER]

Seeing as how you continue to pretend that you are an adult, a christian, and morally better than anyone bla blah blah

Stick a cork in it.

:rolleyes:

[Ultra Peanut]

Stick a cork in it.

:rolleyes:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2hf7t04.jpg

[SHTSPRAYER]

I had a friend die of HIV due to a blood tranfusion on account of his Hemophilia. He was 15. Stop talking out of your ass to try and look smart. You're failing miserably.

What year?

[KCJohnny]

I disagree; I clearly stated that the Judiac tradition was against homosexual behavior. I think we have to take in the account that Paul was a Hellenized Jew, he grew up in that culture, and that is what he knows of, whether right or wrong in his beliefs. Why take that in? Because those are facts. I make no judgment in my second paragraph whether those actions are morally right or wrong. I have only upheld the Church's Tradition concerning the celibacy of priests.

I am open to correction if there is any needed.

You are in need of it. You are applying Protestant redaction criticism methods like those of the heretic Rudolf Bultmann. Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and your attempts to cast him as a mouthpiece for Hellenistic values is way off the mark. Paul encountered Jesus Christ who appeared to him on the Road to Damascus. Also, Paul's Hebraic credentials were impeccable:

Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-3.htm) for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-4.htm) although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-5.htm) circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-6.htm) as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
<IFRAME src="/blank.htm" frameBorder=0 width=24 scrolling=no height=10></IFRAME>7 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-7.htm) But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 (http://bible.cc/philippians/3-8.htm) More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ

You cannot blindly subscribe to these preconditioned expositors trained in the free for all atmosphere of Protestant-influenced exegesis. Our Church treats Paul as a spokesman for Jesus Christ and nothing less.

If anything, Hellenism should have influenced Paul to a softer position against sexual deviancy. Paul, according to our Church, penned inerrant dictums in his epistles that are binding on the conscience of every human being. Please read Romans chapter 1 and see Paul's proclamation on homosexual behavior.

[Jilly]

You are in need of it. You are applying Protestant redaction criticism methods like those of the heretic Rudolf Bultmann. Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and your attempts to cast him as a mouthpiece for Hellenistic values is way off the mark. Paul encountered Jesus Christ who appeared to him on the Road to Damascus. Also, Paul's Hebraic credentials were impeccable:



You cannot blindly subscribe to these preconditioned expositors trained in the free for all atmosphere of Protestant-influenced exegesis. Our Church treats Paul as a spokesman for Jesus Christ and nothing less.

If anything, Hellenism should have influenced Paul to a softer position against sexual deviancy. Paul, according to our Church, penned inerrant dictums in his epistles that are binding on the conscience of every human being. Please read Romans chapter 1 and see Paul's proclamation on homosexual behavior.

Is Paul more important to you then Jesus? If Jesus were to encounter a homosexual, what do you think his actions would be?

[Mr. Kotter]

Is Paul more important to you then Jesus? If Jesus were to encounter a homosexual, what do you think his actions would be?

Luke 17:3....If a brother sins, rebuke him....

Love the sinner, but hate the sin? :hmmm:

[Ultra Peanut]

And if Jesus encounters a fat person?

[Mr. Kotter]

And if Jesus encounters a fat person?

Love the fat boy, not the gluttony.

It's not rocket science. :shrug:

[Ultra Peanut]

And if Jesus silently walks up to you and caresses your buttocks and bazoom?

[Jilly]

Luke 17:3....If a brother sins, rebuke him....

Love the sinner, but hate the sin? :hmmm:

Yes, but the MOST Divine law according to Matthew is to love your neighbor as yourself....

I think where we all stray is what do we mean by love? What kind of love do we show someone if we disagree with their actions? (personally, I'm not of the opinion that homosexuality is a sin, but I others do read that in the text, so I want to go with that)

[SHTSPRAYER]

Peabrain, just to let you know I have you on ignore, so I can't see your annoying posts any more. I don't want you to waste your time, I'm sure you have a very busy itinerary.

[Mr. Kotter]

Yes, but the MOST Divine law according to Matthew is to love your neighbor as yourself....

I think where we all stray is what do we mean by love? What kind of love do we show someone if we disagree with their actions? (personally, I'm not of the opinion that homosexuality is a sin, but I others do read that in the text, so I want to go with that)

Why is Matthew afforded more credibility than Paul, in your world view? Isn't that a bit of selective attention?

It seems to me, Jesus disagreed and chastised more than a few folks for their behavior and sins....despite his love for them, didn't he?

:hmmm:

[Mr. Kotter]

And if Jesus silently walks up to you and caresses your buttocks and bazoom?

I'd think, "dude, if you find my moobs attractive, you should really check out psic's new duds!"

;)

[Ultra Peanut]

Peabrain, just to let you know I have you on ignore, so I can't see your annoying posts any more. I don't want you to waste your time, I'm sure you have a very busy itinerary.http://i35.tinypic.com/2hf7t04.jpg

[Jilly]

Why is Matthew afforded more credibility than Paul, in your world view? Isn't that a bit of selective attention?

It seems to me, Jesus disagreed and chastised more than a few folks for their behavior and sins....despite his love for them, didn't he?

:hmmm:

yeah, who was it that he chastised and why? Pharisees - because they felt it was more important to adhere to the law then to love people....at least that's the gist of it. And why wouldn't Matthew be more important to Paul to me? One tells the story of Jesus' life, the man whom I choose to follow and the other is writings from a guy who interpreted his life and then espoused his theology to churches. I think it's more important I read the Gospels, see what Jesus said, how he lived his life and base my actions on that. Paul, although inspired by his faith and the Spirit, I'm sure, was a human being who took a pen to paper (or his scribes did) and interpreted Jesus' actions. I'd rather interpret Jesus' actions myself.

[Mr. Kotter]

.... I'd rather interpret Jesus' actions myself.

But you would seek to deny others that same courtesy, it seems to me.

:hmmm:

[Jenson71]

You are in need of it. You are applying Protestant redaction criticism methods like those of the heretic Rudolf Bultmann. Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and your attempts to cast him as a mouthpiece for Hellenistic values is way off the mark. Paul encountered Jesus Christ who appeared to him on the Road to Damascus. Also, Paul's Hebraic credentials were impeccable:

You cannot blindly subscribe to these preconditioned expositors trained in the free for all atmosphere of Protestant-influenced exegesis. Our Church treats Paul as a spokesman for Jesus Christ and nothing less.

If anything, Hellenism should have influenced Paul to a softer position against sexual deviancy. Paul, according to our Church, penned inerrant dictums in his epistles that are binding on the conscience of every human being. Please read Romans chapter 1 and see Paul's proclamation on homosexual behavior.

Does your wife (and daughters, if any) go to Church, KCJohnny?

[Jilly]

But you would seek to deny others that same courtesy, it seems to me.

:hmmm:

you know, you're right. I do have that vice and I try and work on it. I have the same intolerance issue with Biblical Literalists as they have with me. I've been trying to pray and work on it. In all honesty, I just come by it because I often feel the focus of a Christian faith gets distorted into a worship of the Bible, rather than a worship of Jesus. Does that make sense? And to me, a Christian Faith should be all about following Christ.

[Mr. Kotter]

you know, you're right. I do have that vice and I try and work on it. I have the same intolerance issue with Biblical Literalists as they have with me. I've been trying to pray and work on it. In all honesty, I just come by it because I often feel the focus of a Christian faith gets distorted into a worship of the Bible, rather than a worship of Jesus. Does that make sense? And to me, a Christian Faith should be all about following Christ.

I understand your point; Chrisitanity should focus on the teachings of Christ. But exactly what those teachings are, of course, is a subjective matter. Your point makes complete sense, and I actually agree with you. The problem is, everyone's perspective of Jesus is based in their own experiences, education, and biases. And who are we judge them as "wrong," unless their view is clearly and empirically just wrong?

FWIW, I'm no literalist. To catch you up, in case you're wondering....I consider myself a Diest really, who is also a practicing Christian. I understand your impatience/intolerance with literalists, because I share it. However, I also see moral relativists (and, fair or not, I'd consider someone who professes an ambiguous and very difficult to "define" 'worship of Jesus"...) as the flip-side to the same coin.

Please, don't misunderstand me....I'm making no judgment; I'm merely suggesting that tolerance is a two-way street. As a society, we often are quick to criticize "literalists" for their "intolerance," yet aren't relativists also intolerant in their own way? And that strikes me as more than a bit hypocritical.

[Jenson71]

in case you're wondering....I consider myself a Diest really, who is also a practicing Christian.

You believe that there is a God that does not intervine in human affairs yet revealed Himself to us in Christ?

[Mr. Kotter]

You believe that there is a God that does not intervine in human affairs yet revealed Himself to us in Christ?

Not exactly; but that's a possibility.

[Jenson71]

Not exactly; but that's a possibility.

Well, that would be contradictory, would it not? How can a person be both a Deist and Christian? What does that entail?

[Mr. Kotter]

Well, that would be contradictory, would it not? How can a person be both a Deist and Christian? What does that entail?

No it's not contradictory; you are not paying close attention.

You missed the operative word: I'm a practicing Christian.

I'm Deist, philosophically and theologically; culturally, out of convenience and a desire to engage in the fellowship and company of others with similar beliefs, I choose to participate in a Christian congregation with which I'm comfortable. That doesn't mean that I accept or believe everything that comes from their teachings or pulpit; but it's a reasonable proxy.

Some refer to many American Catholics as "Cafeteria Catholics." I consider myself similarly situated, fwiw.

[SHTSPRAYER]

you know, you're right. I do have that vice and I try and work on it.


I pray that I can overcome my own prejudices, and I also pray that I can learn to accept the prejudices of others who perhaps might be too mentally ill to ever change.

I won't say it's the most difficult of my struggles, but it's up there.

[Ultra Peanut]

lol

[SHTSPRAYER]

Peabrain, if you post to amuse yourself, fine. I have you on ignore so if you are posting just to get on my nerves, you fail.

[Ari Chi3fs]

American's really need to learn the law of Allowing. Let others be who they decide to be, and you be who you decide to be.

We spend so much time in this country persecuting people who aren't like us and who don't think like us and who don't look like us.




TAGS: evolve people, don't take the Bible so literally, kCJohnny Died for our Sins

[SHTSPRAYER]

We spend so much time in this country persecuting people who aren't like us and who don't think like us and who don't look like us.


It's called discernment.

[MagicHef]

American's really need to learn the law of Allowing. Let others be who they decide to be, and you be who you decide to be.

We spend so much time in this country persecuting people who aren't like us and who don't think like us and who don't look like us.




TAGS: evolve people, don't take the Bible so literally, kCJohnny Died for our Sins

Do you find it ironic that you wrote both of these things in the same post?

[Jenson71]

No it's not contradictory; you are not paying close attention.

You missed the operative word: I'm a practicing Christian.

I'm Deist

Wouldn't practicing Christians believe in the foundations of Christianity - that Jesus Christ is and was God? Like practicing lawyers follow the profession of law; not merely stand inside a law firm and enjoy the mahogany book shelves. Maybe "Pretending" is better. :D Okay, now I'm just being combative there. I understand what you're saying, just so we know that a Christian can't be a Deist.

[Mr. Kotter]

Wouldn't practicing Christians believe in the foundations of Christianity - that Jesus Christ is and was God? Like practicing lawyers follow the profession of law; not merely stand inside a law firm and enjoy the mahogany book shelves. Maybe "Pretending" is better. :D Okay, now I'm just being combative there. I understand what you're saying, just so we know that a Christian can't be a Deist.

Maybe, I should describe myself as "deistic" then, I guess. I understand the distinction you are making...and I do follow believe in the foundations and basic tenants of Christianity. I'm merely open to the possibility that, Christianity in one way God has chosen to make Himself apparent to our culture (leaving open the possibility that he make make Himself/Herself apparent to other societies...in more culturally appropriate ways.

If I were to be precise, my beliefs actually would fall into line with Unitarian Universalism or Bahá'í Faith. I'm fine working within the Christian framework though.

[Jilly]

Maybe, I should describe myself as "deistic" then, I guess. I understand the distinction you are making...and I do follow believe in the foundations and basic tenants of Christianity. I'm merely open to the possibility that, Christianity in one way God has chosen to make Himself apparent to our culture (leaving open the possibility that he make make Himself/Herself apparent to other societies...in more culturally appropriate ways.

If I were to be precise, my beliefs actually would fall into line with Unitarian Universalism or Bahá'í Faith. I'm fine working within the Christian framework though.


I love that. I'd be uncomfortable as hell living in it myself because of the ambiguity, but I think that is a great world view.

[Mr. Kotter]

I love that. I'd be uncomfortable as hell living in it myself because of the ambiguity, but I think that is a great world view.
I understand. It took me years and lots of soul searching to reach this point; it just seems to "fit" for me. As for the ambiguity...what's more ambiguous than the nature of God? IMHO man is far too fallible, in my view, for God to trust anyone (Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, or even the authors of the Bible) to accurately, precisely, and thoroughly convey Himself to humankind.

[Jilly]

I understand. It took me years and lots of soul searching to reach this point; it just seems to "fit" for me. As for the ambiguity...what's more ambiguous than the nature of God? IMHO man is far too fallible, in my view, for God to trust anyone (Moses, Mohamed, Buddha, or even the authors of the Bible) to accurately, precisely, and thoroughly convey Himself to humankind.

exactly, it's the ambiguous living I'd have a hard time with. I think that's why I like Jesus, because I see it as a clear cut example for me to follow. Plus, I would have a hard time practicing Buddhism, for some reason, I have an extremely hard time meditating.

[Mr. Kotter]

exactly, it's the ambiguous living I'd have a hard time with. I think that's why I like Jesus, because I see it as a clear cut example for me to follow. Plus, I would have a hard time practicing Buddhism, for some reason, I have an extremely hard time meditating.


It's probably why I've chosen to live as a practicing Christian. Easiesr path, relatively speaking....from a cultural perspective anyway.

[Ari Chi3fs]

Do you find it ironic that you wrote both of these things in the same post?


No. While I believe in God as the ultimate universe creator... I don't buy a lot of the Bible.... some, certainly not all.

I believe that humanity is one consciousness... we are all protons, neutrons, electrons, and the space between.

Everything is made up from the same building blocks. We are all equal.

As far as there being some great judgement day where we are all judged and can get thrown to hell. Don't buy it.

God isn't a vengeful, hateful God. That version of God was created by the Catholics at the Council of Nicea in Constantine. They had to get the 'pagans' to jump on board and be part of the indoctrination. They were preparing for mind-numbing Dark Ages and the exit of free knowledge.... and the "Crusades". All of which was a crock of shit created by the Catholic Church.

People who are fearful are way easier to control.

In this way, a lot of the world's religion's are bunk.

God is loving, forgiving and all-knowing...

[MagicHef]

No. While I believe in God as the ultimate universe creator... I don't buy a lot of the Bible.... some, certainly not all.

I believe that humanity is one consciousness... we are all protons, neutrons, electrons, and the space between.

Everything is made up from the same building blocks. We are all equal.

As far as there being some great judgement day where we are all judged and can get thrown to hell. Don't buy it.

God isn't a vengeful, hateful God. That version of God was created by the Catholics at the Council of Nicea in Constantine. They had to get the 'pagans' to jump on board and be part of the indoctrination. They were preparing for mind-numbing Dark Ages and the exit of free knowledge.... and the "Crusades". All of which was a crock of shit created by the Catholic Church.

People who are fearful are way easier to control.

In this way, a lot of the world's religion's are bunk.

God is loving, forgiving and all-knowing...

I wasn't speaking of your beliefs being ironic, I was referring to the fact that you say people should "let others be who they decide to be" at the same time you say "don't take the bible so literally." Are you letting others be who they decide to be if you are telling them how to interpret the Bible?

[Ari Chi3fs]

I wasn't speaking of your beliefs being ironic, I was referring to the fact that you say people should "let others be who they decide to be" at the same time you say "don't take the bible so literally." Are you letting others be who they decide to be if you are telling them how to interpret the Bible?

People who are religious zealots hardly let people be.







TAGS: MagicHef stares at animals junk at the zoo

[MagicHef]

People who are religious zealots hardly let people be.







TAGS: MagicHef stares at animals junk at the zoo

Ha ha. Awesome.

I'm trying as hard as I can to not be rude or insulting, but I can't really think of a better way to phrase this:

It seems to me as if you are covering up your hypocrisy with discrimination.

[Ari Chi3fs]

You can allow others to be the way they choose to be, yet still help educate and inform. Nothing hypocritical about information and persuasion. It's the forceful nature of self-righteous people that get in the way.


I could let you continue to stare at zoo animals junk, but I could still inform you that it isn't polite to be a meat gazer... yet allow you to do it.

[bango]

Why is Matthew afforded more credibility than Paul, in your world view? Isn't that a bit of selective attention?

It seems to me, Jesus disagreed and chastised more than a few folks for their behavior and sins....despite his love for them, didn't he?

:hmmm:

I am going to place more stock in someone that actually knew Jesus when he was alive, for a few years, heard him speak, observed him perform miracles, and was his friend instead of someone that saw him in a vision while walking down the street. For all that we know Paul could have just made the claim up and used it to hijack Christianity.

[bango]

you know, you're right. I do have that vice and I try and work on it. I have the same intolerance issue with Biblical Literalists as they have with me. I've been trying to pray and work on it. In all honesty, I just come by it because I often feel the focus of a Christian faith gets distorted into a worship of the Bible, rather than a worship of Jesus. Does that make sense? And to me, a Christian Faith should be all about following Christ.

That actually makes a lot of sense. It was in fact one of the sermons at my church one Sunday.

[MagicHef]

You can allow others to be the way they choose to be, yet still help educate and inform. Nothing hypocritical about information and persuasion. It's the forceful nature of self-righteous people that get in the way.

Oh, I absolutely agree. That being said, how would you take to a Christian Fundamentalist educating and informing you? I guess my question would be: when does someone else persuading you become forceful in nature? Also, on a side note, I am guessing that our definitions of "self-righteous people" vary wildly.

[bango]

Wouldn't practicing Christians believe in the foundations of Christianity - that Jesus Christ is and was God? Like practicing lawyers follow the profession of law; not merely stand inside a law firm and enjoy the mahogany book shelves. Maybe "Pretending" is better. :D Okay, now I'm just being combative there. I understand what you're saying, just so we know that a Christian can't be a Deist.

I have met a few people over the years that were Pagan and Christian, or Lutheran and Hindu and such. They even used the commandment that said to not have any God's before me. They claimed to try and serve both equally. So in a sense to an extent one can be a Deistic Christian. You and I amy not agree with their decision, but that is not for us to decide.

[bango]

No. While I believe in God as the ultimate universe creator... I don't buy a lot of the Bible.... some, certainly not all.

I believe that humanity is one consciousness... we are all protons, neutrons, electrons, and the space between.

Everything is made up from the same building blocks. We are all equal.

As far as there being some great judgement day where we are all judged and can get thrown to hell. Don't buy it.

God isn't a vengeful, hateful God. That version of God was created by the Catholics at the Council of Nicea in Constantine. They had to get the 'pagans' to jump on board and be part of the indoctrination. They were preparing for mind-numbing Dark Ages and the exit of free knowledge.... and the "Crusades". All of which was a crock of shit created by the Catholic Church.

People who are fearful are way easier to control.

In this way, a lot of the world's religion's are bunk.

God is loving, forgiving and all-knowing...

I pretty much agree. Man has made God into man's image and not the other way around and the way that it is supposed to be. I was talking to a friend that went to a seminar and they mentioned how one of the speakers had said that his God is so merciful and forgiving that there may be an angel in heaven named Lucifer. It is a revolutionary concept that too many Christians can not wrap their minds around. They seem to need a hell to punish those that they feel need punishment. It would bother them too much to think that a Hitler or anything like that could be in Heaven or with them in the afterlife. You can just look at the reaction by the Church to a work of fiction called the Davinci Code. Some that I have talked with are fine with Jesus being married and having children and brothers and sisters, but most just can not handle it. It is more of a security issue than anything.

[Mr. Kotter]

...They even used the commandment that said to not have any God's before me...

And yet there could be complete consistency, if the God they and we and others are referring to is one-in-the same....only known differently, by different names, through different cultural lenses.

[MagicHef]

I pretty much agree. Man has made God into man's image and not the other way around and the way that it is supposed to be. I was talking to a friend that went to a seminar and they mentioned how one of the speakers had said that his God is so merciful and forgiving that there may be an angel in heaven named Lucifer. It is a revolutionary concept that too many Christians can not wrap their minds around. They seem to need a hell to punish those that they feel need punishment. It would bother them too much to think that a Hitler or anything like that could be in Heaven or with them in the afterlife. You can just look at the reaction by the Church to a work of fiction called the Davinci Code. Some that I have talked with are fine with Jesus being married and having children and brothers and sisters, but most just can not handle it. It is more of a security issue than anything.

Personally, it's a Biblical issue. Hell is pretty clearly described in the Bible.

[MagicHef]

And yet there could be complete consistency, if the God they and we and others are referring to is one-in-the same....only known differently, by different names, through different cultural lenses.

If this were true, why would their teachings be contradictory? Islam teaches that one must follow all the rules and traditions in order to be saved, while Christianity teaches that now matter how hard we try, nothing we do can save us, but instead, we must rely on Jesus' sacrifice for salvation.

[bango]

Personally, it's a Biblical issue. Hell is pretty clearly described in the Bible.

Either god is merciful or God is not. I actually have to disagree with what you said. Hell has many names in the Bible and many descriptions that are not the same. What are Satan's Powers? They are not clearly defined in the Bible. People have to remember to not forget that the Bible had many authors. Not all of them saw things the same way. It was inspired by God that Man write it down. There are books that may have been left out. I could go on and on, but I will not. It is pointless. No matter what ones interpretation of it is the message stays the same. The message is to be less like man, be selfless, serve God by doing these things. I would go as far sa to say that we should love our neighbor more than we love ourselves that would make it easier to follow God by doing that.

[Jenson71]

God isn't a vengeful, hateful God. That version of God was created by the Catholics at the Council of Nicea in Constantine. They had to get the 'pagans' to jump on board and be part of the indoctrination. They were preparing for mind-numbing Dark Ages and the exit of free knowledge.... and the "Crusades". All of which was a crock of shit created by the Catholic Church.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you think creating a vengeful, hateful god makes all the pagans jump on board, as if that's the answer they're looking for? Is that what you're saying? No offense, but this post makes it sound you get most of your history and religious ideas from an Oprah book club.

[Jenson71]

I have met a few people over the years that were Pagan and Christian, or Lutheran and Hindu and such. They even used the commandment that said to not have any God's before me. They claimed to try and serve both equally. So in a sense to an extent one can be a Deistic Christian. You and I amy not agree with their decision, but that is not for us to decide.

That's fine if they call themselves that. It doesn't make it true, though. It's logically impossible to be both a Deist and a Christian.

[MagicHef]

Either god is merciful or God is not. I actually have to disagree with what you said. Hell has many names in the Bible and many descriptions that are not the same. What are Satan's Powers? They are not clearly defined in the Bible. People have to remember to not forget that the Bible had many authors. Not all of them saw things the same way. It was inspired by God that Man write it down. There are books that may have been left out. I could go on and on, but I will not. It is pointless. No matter what ones interpretation of it is the message stays the same. The message is to be less like man, be selfless, serve God by doing these things. I would go as far sa to say that we should love our neighbor more than we love ourselves that would make it easier to follow God by doing that.

I agree with what I have bolded. Now, as to the issue of Hell, because it has many names and descriptions, does that lead you to believe that it does not exist, as you made reference to in post #232? The point of my response was not to define Hell as one thing or another, but to point out that there are reasons to believe in these things other than just a "security issue," as you said.

[bango]

That's fine if they call themselves that. It doesn't make it true, though. It's logically impossible to be both a Deist and a Christian.

I am not trying to split hairs here, but if someone wanted to say that they believe that there is a God, but that they are not sure of what God is or is not and also wanted to believe in and follow the teachings of Christ, making them a Christian then I guess that they would have to be a deist and a Christian.

[bango]

I agree with what I have bolded. Now, as to the issue of Hell, because it has many names and descriptions, does that lead you to believe that it does not exist, as you made reference to in post #232? The point of my response was not to define Hell as one thing or another, but to point out that there are reasons to believe in these things other than just a "security issue," as you said.

Me, I do not believe in hell. I do believe that a person can make their life heaven or hell on Earth, but I do not believe that there is such a place. I believe in reaping and sowing or whatever others would like to call it and that everyone pays for what they do on Earth one way or another. I do think that there is an afterlife, but it is the same for everyone. Maybe it could be hell, but then we are all going there then. I am more Judeo than Christian. It is hard for me to adhere to any single doctrine enough to fall in line with any of them. The Bible means what it means to me. Within reason of course.

[Jenson71]

I am not trying to split hairs here, but if someone wanted to say that they believe that there is a God, but that they are not sure of what God is or is not and also wanted to believe in and follow the teachings of Christ, making them a Christian then I guess that they would have to be a deist and a Christian.

A Christian believes that Jesus is Divine. To make the claim that you are a Christian (believing Jesus is Divine) is making the claim that God reveals Himself to us. On the other hand, Deists claim that God does not reveal Himself to us.

By definition, the two are logically incompatible.

[Ari Chi3fs]

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you think creating a vengeful, hateful god makes all the pagans jump on board, as if that's the answer they're looking for? Is that what you're saying? No offense, but this post makes it sound you get most of your history and religious ideas from an Oprah book club.

Imagine that. The guy with some catholic dude as his avatar thinks that the Catholics had nothing to do with Council of Nicea, the Dark Ages nor the Crusades... nor... most of the religious persecution in the history of the world.

Shocking.

[splatbass]

I consider myself a Diest really, who is also a practicing Christian.

I'm a Deist , and I don't understand this. Deists don't believe in organized religion. To be a practicing Christian you have to be a part of an organized religion.

Someone else already pointed out one contradiction in this, this is contradiction number two.

FWIW, I have a lot of respect for the teachings of Jesus, but I don't believe in the Christian religion as it is practiced today (or any other religion for that matter). I don't believe Jesus would even recognize it as having come from him.

[Logical]

A Christian believes that Jesus is Divine. To make the claim that you are a Christian (believing Jesus is Divine) is making the claim that God reveals Himself to us. On the other hand, Deists claim that God does not reveal Himself to us.

By definition, the two are logically incompatible.You are right about the logic incompatability.

[bango]

I'm a Deist , and I don't understand this. Deists don't believe in organized religion. To be a practicing Christian you have to be a part of an organized religion.

Someone else already pointed out one contradiction in this, this is contradiction number two.

FWIW, I have a lot of respect for the teachings of Jesus, but I don't believe in the Christian religion as it is practiced today (or any other religion for that matter). I don't believe Jesus would even recognize it as having come from him.

Yep. I doubt that he would have liked his life to be the poster for socialized faith and spirituality. Where is TJ when ya' need him? Seriously, where the heck has he been?

[Mr. Kotter]

If this were true, why would their teachings be contradictory? Islam teaches that one must follow all the rules and traditions in order to be saved, while Christianity teaches that now matter how hard we try, nothing we do can save us, but instead, we must rely on Jesus' sacrifice for salvation.

Don't you think that the very nature of man could logically lead to opportunistic manipulation of religious doctrines for very self-serving purposes, or culturally based social reinforcement?

[Mr. Kotter]

I'm a Deist , and I don't understand this. Deists don't believe in organized religion. To be a practicing Christian you have to be a part of an organized religion.

Someone else already pointed out one contradiction in this, this is contradiction number two.

FWIW, I have a lot of respect for the teachings of Jesus, but I don't believe in the Christian religion as it is practiced today (or any other religion for that matter). I don't believe Jesus would even recognize it as having come from him.

Then you have just as narrow perspective of deism, as some Christians have of their faith.

As I stated later, I'm probably more accurately described as a Universalist.

You are right about the logic incompatability.

I clarified the point subsequently, I believe.

[MagicHef]

Don't you think that the very nature of man could logically lead to opportunistic manipulation of religious doctrines for very self-serving purposes, or culturally based social reinforcement?

It could. If this is what you believe, why bother defining yourself by an opportunistically manipulated religion? If you don't believe the doctrine, why call yourself that?

[splatbass]

Then you have just as narrow perspective of deism, as some Christians have of their faith.



No, I don't. Deists, by definition, don't believe in organized religion.

Here is a good description of Deism:

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/deism.htm



* God is identified through nature and reason, not revelation. Deists who believe in God, or at least a divine principle, follow few if any of the other tenets and practices of Christianity, Judaism, or any religion believing in a personal God. Any deist god is an eternal entity whose power is equal to his/her will.
* Some deists believe in Jesus Christ, while others do not. Most deists give regard to the moral teachings of Jesus.
* The Bible is not accepted as the infallible Word of God. Deists refute evidence of Jesus’ incarnation of God on earth. They deny the credibility of any writings from the Apostles or any “Spirit-inspired” writings.
* Deism has no creed, articles of faith, or holy book. Neither Satan nor hell exists, only symbols of evil which can be overcome by man’s own reasoning.
* Man is qualified to decide what reasonable path to follow regarding morals. Deists refer to themselves as “freethinkers.”
* Deists reject revelations and visions. There is no place for the nonsense of miracles and prophecies in an enlightened deist’s life.
* Deism has no need for ministers, priests, or rabbis. All an individual requires is their own common sense and the ability to contemplate their human condition.