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KCJohnny
11-24-2008, 07:49 AM
COMMENTARY (http://www.kansascity.com/180/story/905977.html)

Chiefs’ defense is nothing but a bunch of sad sacks

By JOE POSNANSKI

The Kansas City Star

After much consideration, I’m going with the six sacks. I think that’s the worst part of this unbearable season. Oh, sure, it’s hard to pick just one thing. There are so many staggeringly awful things wrong with these Chiefs. They have been shut out. They have been blown out. They have been edged out. They have been freaked out.

Sunday, they lost their 19th game in 20, a streak that puts them down with the dregs of the dregs, the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs, the Rod Rust New England Patriots, the bags-on-their-heads New Orleans Aints.
And Kansas City lost this one in style, giving up a Chiefs-record 54 points to the free-falling Buffalo Bills. The Bills had scored 54 points the previous three weeks combined. They had lost four in a row. They were guided by a second-year quarterback, Trent Edwards, who had thrown eight interceptions in the four losses.

Sunday against the Chiefs, Edwards threw two touchdown passes, ran for two more, did not come close to turning the ball over and had only eight incomplete passes.

There’s a reason for this, a good reason, and it is simply this: The Chiefs have the worst pass rush in the history of professional football. I am not saying this to be flip, and I don’t mean this in the exaggerated way that you might say, “This is the worst traffic jam I’ve ever seen,” every Monday when taking I-35 North. No, these Chiefs are quantifiably the worst pass-rushing team ever. They have six sacks this year. That’s six sacks. The whole team. The whole year. Six sacks.

In the end, I think that’s the essence of this season, the core of this disaster, a big reason to believe that this rebuilding thing is not working at all. Yes, I have written that I like coach Herm Edwards and I think he’s a good coach — and I still do. But you know what? Six sacks over 11 games might tell a more compelling story. The Chiefs’ defense is not putting up a fight. Nothing, for a football fan, is more frustrating than watching a defense that cannot get anywhere near the quarterback.

First, we need to put this in perspective. The Chiefs have six sacks. Of course, that’s last in the NFL. The Chiefs have six sacks. There are 19 individual players in the NFL who have at least that many. The Chiefs have six sacks. Derrick Thomas once had seven sacks in a single game. The Chiefs are on pace for nine sacks all year, and that would be an NFL record. The current record is held by the 1982 Indianapolis Colts, who had 11 sacks that year. And that was in a strike-shortened, nine-game season.

You know, last year the Chiefs had the NFL sack leader, Jared Allen, but they decided he wasn’t worth a long-term investment. This year, Jared Allen has eight sacks, and simple math tells you that’s two more than the entire Chiefs team.

There has never been a team that puts so little pressure on the quarterback. Ever. Understand, the Bills gave up five sacks to the Jets a couple of weeks ago. Buffalo’s offensive line has struggled most of the year. And Sunday, the Chiefs did not even get close enough to Trent Edwards to give him a warm towel and ask him what he would like to drink (which seemed to be their defensive game plan). The guy was given more time than Charlie Manson. He stood in the pocket long enough to be declared a naturalized citizen.

The only time the Chiefs chased him at all was when they chased him into the end zone — Edwards ran for those two touchdowns, which would be one more touchdown than he had scored in his NFL career.
And I suspect that this incredible lack of pressure tells you, pretty plainly, that the Chiefs are not making real progress. Yes, they have played a few close games. Yes, they have shown a few signs of improvement. Yes, Tyler Thigpen — despite his shaky game Sunday — has at numerous times looked like a promising young quarterback.

But, here’s the thing: Five years ago, the Chiefs brought back Gunther Cunningham to fix the defense. It was a weird move considering that the Chiefs had kicked Gunther to the curb after two years of him being head coach. But hey, everybody loves Gunther, and he has coached some outstanding defenses through the years, and the Chiefs were obviously trying to get back to playing hard-nosed, blitzing, quarterback-crushing football.

Three years ago, they hired Herm Edwards to be head coach. Herm is all defense, all the time — he played defense, he coached defense, he lives defense. Again, the idea was clear: The Chiefs were going to start playing great, tough defense again.

In 2002, with the sixth pick in the draft, the Chiefs took defensive tackle Ryan Sims. In 2004, with their first pick (a second-rounder), they took defensive tackle Junior Siavii. In 2005, with their first pick, they took linebacker Derrick Johnson — and were absolutely thrilled he was available. In 2006, with their first pick, they took defensive end Tamba Hali and talked constantly about his never-stopping motor. This year, with the fifth pick overall, they took defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey.

Do you see what I’m driving at here? For five years or more, the Chiefs have been focused — almost exclusively focused — on building up their defense, and specifically their front seven. They were going to get after the quarterback. Sunday, the Chiefs on the defensive line started Hali (first-round pick), Dorsey (first-round pick), Tank Tyler (third-round pick) and Alfonso Boone (a pretty high-priced free agent). They had a first-rounder and sack leader (with two) Derrick Johnson at linebacker. Sure, the Chiefs have had injuries. But that’s a lot of high-priced talent there.

And, let’s just say that if Trent Edwards had the measles, none of that high-priced talent got close enough to contract it. The plan isn’t working. After five years of hard work and major investments — money, coaching hires, high draft picks — they’re on pace to set a record for sack futility.

“It’s just been tough,” Herm Edwards said. “It’s just been a tough deal for us … It’s something that we’ll continue to try and work on. It’s just, uh, we haven’t found a way to get there yet. We blitzed some. And that’s always good when you get there … We didn’t get there. It’s just something we need to work on.”

OK, that doesn’t give you a lot of confidence right there.
“We’re just in a slump,” Derrick Johnson said. “I don’t really know what else to say. If it was one thing we weren’t doing, then we could fix that, but it isn’t just one thing. It’s everything. You know, we’re just in a slump.”

That’s some slump. So was the Great Depression. There are other similarities.

Extra Point
11-24-2008, 08:05 AM
"...more time than Charlie Manson." What a gift of prose.

KCJohnny
11-24-2008, 08:22 AM
I love Jo Po. I would read him even if I wasn't a die hard Chiefs fan. Take note, Claythan.

talastan
11-24-2008, 10:54 AM
Spot on Joe!

Thiggy had a real rough day, but the _efense was what has lost us the last five games.

Brock
11-24-2008, 10:56 AM
Gunther lied, the pass rush died.

FringeNC
11-24-2008, 11:05 AM
So...we have a D that is on pace for fewest sacks EVER. Throw on top of that the number of 300 yard rushing games this D has given up, and you wonder how Gunther and Krumrie can have jobs.

Micjones
11-24-2008, 11:05 AM
It's scary to think about just how focused this team has been on repairing this ailing defense (from the draft, to the philosophy, even down to the coaches) and this unit is still TWICE as bad as Vermeil's defenses were.

ChiefButthurt
11-24-2008, 11:10 AM
If given enough time, Herm could make this team the worst in the history of the NFL. The 1976 Tampa Bay Bucs would become a distant memory if he's given enough time. Thank God for fantasy football, otherwise I wouldn't turn on the TV on Sunday's.

Tuckdaddy
11-24-2008, 11:27 AM
I don't know how Gun keeps a job either. We have the worst defense in the history of the league.

Micjones
11-24-2008, 11:30 AM
I don't know how Gun keeps a job either. We have the worst defense in the history of the league.

I've been a Gunther supporter in the past.
It's all over. He needs to go.

HolyHandgernade
11-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Well sure, only six sacks, but was any sack more of an impact than the first one the Chiefs registered?

-HH

chiefsfan1963
11-24-2008, 11:40 AM
DV's D was simply better!:D

HemiEd
11-24-2008, 11:54 AM
So...we have a D that is on pace for fewest sacks EVER. Throw on top of that the number of 300 yard rushing games this D has given up, and you wonder how Gunther and Krumrie can have jobs.

Patience, both will be sacrificed at the end of the season.

Gravedigger
11-24-2008, 01:51 PM
All's I know is that if we rely on the Draft next year to get our Defensive talent, it's not going to improve. If this is what happens when you get young players together then I expect it to not happen for a long time after this. Go into Free Agency and get some playmakers on the defensive side of the ball, secure your picks in the draft as best you can, but this Organization cannot draft defensive talent very well. 5/17 or whatever is simply never going to cut it.

InChiefsHell
11-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Gun needs to go. I was so happy to have him back, but the defense gets worse every year, in spite of him getting all the guys he wants etc...Gun sucks. Too bad, I always liked him...

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 01:57 PM
I will cry when Carl is axed

talastan
11-24-2008, 02:41 PM
Gun needs to go. I was so happy to have him back, but the defense gets worse every year, in spite of him getting all the guys he wants etc...Gun sucks. Too bad, I always liked him...

I agree, I respected Gun, but obviously he hasn't been able to duplicate the defense that carried the Chiefs through the 90's, much less anything that resembles respectablity. If we are set up to go into the draft with a top pick and its another defensive position than IMO Gunther and the current staff need to be sacked. The exception being Gibbs. He has worked with Flowers and Carr pretty decently. Anyone know anything more about him and whether he might be able to run a defense.

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 03:26 PM
I think this article is really good. The sadsacks are putrid and Herm and Carl assembled this team. The excuses have run out of time.

el borracho
11-24-2008, 03:28 PM
Gunther is at least partially responsible for some of my fondest memories as a Chiefs fan but, sadly, the current situation (with Carl and Herm) just isn't working. At this point, the Chiefs really need to start all over at the top and let the higher-ups pick the people under them (the new GM should pick the head coach, the new head coach picks the coordinators). I certainly don't wish Gunther any ill but the Chiefs won't improve until Carl and Herm are gone and take everyone associated with them.

booger
11-24-2008, 03:33 PM
I want to break into carl's office and poop on his desk and smear the poop all over his walls. And then proceed to wipe my butt on his alpaca rugs and his expensive office chairs.

That would make me feel much better.

DJJasonp
11-24-2008, 03:36 PM
What is really sad....is how we all keep referring to the 90's as great times....

People...we're real close to being in the 2010's......

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 03:39 PM
I want to break into carl's office and poop on his desk and smear the poop all over his walls. And then proceed to wipe my butt on his alpaca rugs and his expensive office chairs.

That would make me feel much better.
Sounds like the scene out of Alpha Dog.

booger
11-24-2008, 03:44 PM
Sounds like the scene out of Alpha Dog.

Never seen it.

Quick you take Herm's office and we need to find a third to poop all over Clark's desk too.

Anyone seen Rainman lately?

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 03:48 PM
Never seen it.

Quick you take Herm's office and we need to find a third to poop all over Clark's desk too.

Anyone seen Rainman lately?I think it's pretty obvious, Carl took a dump on the organization.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 03:49 PM
Gunther lied, the pass rush died.LMAO

booger
11-24-2008, 03:51 PM
I think it's pretty obvious, Carl took a dump on the organization.

I wish he'd just man up.

When Marty left he said it was time to give someone else a chance.

Carl would never have the manhood to resign.

I better go take my meds now.

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 04:04 PM
I wish he'd just man up.

When Marty left he said it was time to give someone else a chance.

Carl would never have the manhood to resign.

I better go take my meds now.
Shit and run, huh?:D

I can't stop thinking about that damn scene from Alpha Dog now. :eek:

KCJohnny
11-24-2008, 07:37 PM
All's I know is that if we rely on the Draft next year to get our Defensive talent, it's not going to improve. If this is what happens when you get young players together then I expect it to not happen for a long time after this. Go into Free Agency and get some playmakers on the defensive side of the ball, secure your picks in the draft as best you can, but this Organization cannot draft defensive talent very well. 5/17 or whatever is simply never going to cut it.

:clap::clap::clap:

We keep talking about the vaunted Chiefs defenses of the 90s - they were built on a few excellent darft picks (DT, Neil Smith, Dale Carter, Donnie Edwards, etc..) and a LOT of FA acquisitions (Hasty, Saleamua, Collins, nearly every LB, etc...)

I am all for signing some FAs. Get off that $32 mil of cap money and spend like you want to compete, Mr. Hunt. Is any other team trying to win games in the NFL at $32 mil under the salary cap? What can a fan reasonably expect with that bargain basement expenditure?

Bowser
11-24-2008, 07:38 PM
:clap::clap::clap:

We keep talking about the vaunted Chiefs defenses of the 90s - they were built on a few excellent darft picks (DT, Neil Smith, Dale Carter, Donnie Edwards, etc..) and a LOT of FA acquisitions (Hasty, Saleamua, Collins, nearly every LB, etc...)

I am all for signing some FAs. Get off that $32 mil of cap money and spend like you want to compete, Mr. Hunt. Is any other team trying to win games in the NFL at $32 mil under the salary cap? What can a fan reasonably expect with that bargain basement expenditure?

I have a feeling that we aren't going to spend much of anything in FA next year either while this renovation is going on.

KCJohnny
11-24-2008, 07:41 PM
I have a feeling that we aren't going to spend much of anything in FA next year either while this renovation is going on.

Honest question: If Mr. Hunt makes a calculated decision to invest player salaries into the stadium, and the chiefs are trying to get by on the cheap with untested young players playing for league minimums, why all hate on Carl, Herm and Gun (besides the obvious)?

I'm being sincere. We talk of the team being Hermcuffed, but isn't this essentially Huntcuffing the entire football operation?

Bowser
11-24-2008, 07:48 PM
Honest question: If Mr. Hunt makes a calculated decision to invest player salaries into the stadium, and the chiefs are trying to get by on the cheap with untested young players playing for league minimums, why all hate on Carl, Herm and Gun (besides the obvious)?

I'm being sincere. We talk of the team being Hermcuffed, but isn't this essentially Huntcuffing the entire football operation?

Even in this hypothetical, Carl is still President/CEO, which gives him a large say in the financial goings on of this team. I'd go as far as to say it would be Carl's idea to go cheap in '08 and '09, and bank on the NFL having an uncapped year in 2010, hopefully the same year the Arrowhead rennovations are complete, giving them an opportunity to go after every big name they would want to try and sign, just to buy a Super Bowl one year. Yes, Carl's contract runs out next year, and I would assume that if he didn't extend for one year, he would still be on board as President/CEO.

KCJohnny
11-24-2008, 09:07 PM
Even in this hypothetical, Carl is still President/CEO, which gives him a large say in the financial goings on of this team. I'd go as far as to say it would be Carl's idea to go cheap in '08 and '09, and bank on the NFL having an uncapped year in 2010, hopefully the same year the Arrowhead rennovations are complete, giving them an opportunity to go after every big name they would want to try and sign, just to buy a Super Bowl one year. Yes, Carl's contract runs out next year, and I would assume that if he didn't extend for one year, he would still be on board as President/CEO.

That's some fascinating info. So its Carl and not Clark Hunt that made the decision to invest salary cap $ into stadium improvements? Would you consider starting a thread topic about this? I don't really get into the business end of the team too much, but you have some really fascinating insights about this.

Halfcan
11-24-2008, 09:11 PM
Whats left for Herm to do???

Lose back to back to the Faders at Home including a HOer-Check

Set record for most points allowed-Check

Alienate fans and totally screw the Arrowhead advantage-Check

Lose 19 of 20 games-check

Field worst team ever-check

Clark Hunt needs to be kicked in his balls if he had any.

WilliamTheIrish
11-24-2008, 09:15 PM
Even in this hypothetical, Carl is still President/CEO, which gives him a large say in the financial goings on of this team. I'd go as far as to say it would be Carl's idea to go cheap in '08 and '09, and bank on the NFL having an uncapped year in 2010, hopefully the same year the Arrowhead rennovations are complete, giving them an opportunity to go after every big name they would want to try and sign, just to buy a Super Bowl one year. Yes, Carl's contract runs out next year, and I would assume that if he didn't extend for one year, he would still be on board as President/CEO.


Carl's never leaving. When he dies Clark will declare that there will be three days of grieving from the public and the Hunt's will have a procession that will include a rider-less horse like when Reagan finally expired. It'll be like the death of a Soviet Prime Minister.

FringeNC
11-24-2008, 09:25 PM
Speaking off Clark, when is the last time you've seen him on TV engrossed in a game* like Snyder, Kraft, Jones, Bowlen, etc. ?


* NFL game, not soccer

ChiefsLV
11-24-2008, 09:44 PM
I better go take my meds now.

In all seriousness I did start taking antidepressants last month. I may never see two consecutive years of Chiefs football this bad in my life ever again (I hope).

Halfcan
11-24-2008, 09:56 PM
Lets have some stability and sign Herm and Carl to 2o year contracts-Blob Gretz

blackhawk
11-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Adam Schefter
Sackless in Kansas City
Posted: November 25th, 2008 | Adam Schefter | Tags: Kansas City Chiefs

In one of the surprising and sobering stats of the year, there are 19 players that have more sacks this season than the entire Chiefs team.

Through 11 games, Kansas City has a mere six sacks – two fewer than former Chief Jared Allen has for Minnesota. The Chiefs are on pace this season to post fewer than nine total sacks, which would be an NFL single-season record low — shattering the mark that the 1982 Baltimore Colts set with 11 in the strike-shortened, nine-game season. In a full 16-game season, the 1981 Colts had 13 sacks.

What makes the Chiefs’ total so startling is that they have invested heavily in their defensive line. Defensive end Tamba Hali was a 2007 first-round pick, defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey was a 2008 first-round pick, defensive tackle Turk McBride was a 2007 second-round pick and defensive tackle Tank Tyler was a 2007 third-round pick.

In seven of Kansas City’s 11 games this season, including Sunday’s loss to Buffalo, its defense has not registered a single sack.

InChiefsHell
11-25-2008, 11:28 AM
Adam Schefter
Sackless in Kansas City
Posted: November 25th, 2008 | Adam Schefter | Tags: Kansas City Chiefs

In one of the surprising and sobering stats of the year, there are 19 players that have more sacks this season than the entire Chiefs team.

Through 11 games, Kansas City has a mere six sacks – two fewer than former Chief Jared Allen has for Minnesota. The Chiefs are on pace this season to post fewer than nine total sacks, which would be an NFL single-season record low — shattering the mark that the 1982 Baltimore Colts set with 11 in the strike-shortened, nine-game season. In a full 16-game season, the 1981 Colts had 13 sacks.

What makes the Chiefs’ total so startling is that they have invested heavily in their defensive line. Defensive end Tamba Hali was a 2007 first-round pick, defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey was a 2008 first-round pick, defensive tackle Turk McBride was a 2007 second-round pick and defensive tackle Tank Tyler was a 2007 third-round pick.

In seven of Kansas City’s 11 games this season, including Sunday’s loss to Buffalo, its defense has not registered a single sack.

Um...Tamba Hali was 2006, not 2007. But I digress...

Rausch
11-25-2008, 11:37 AM
If JoPo can't believe in you...wow.

Your $#it has FAILED...

blackhawk
11-25-2008, 01:44 PM
Um...Tamba Hali was 2006, not 2007. But I digress...
oops his bad!