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RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:08 AM
Plain and simple.

Another bust of a DT:cuss:

JWhit is right about everything he said about Dorsey. I thought he was supposed to be the centerpiece around the DLine? "Supposively" supposed to be that difference maker?

Yeah:rolleyes:

Not even close.

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 10:10 AM
:shake:

Gonzo
11-24-2008, 10:11 AM
****Obligatory*****

I think that if we would get some other players around him, he'd improve. It's too early to call him a bust yet. No one else can even get close to the opposing qb.

StcChief
11-24-2008, 10:11 AM
what part of it takes more than 10 games to develop a DT haven't you read?

Brock
11-24-2008, 10:11 AM
Nothing quite as stupid as throwing a rookie under the bus.

The Bad Guy
11-24-2008, 10:12 AM
What's truly concerning to me is he's not improving as the year goes on.

I know the curve is big, and he'll likely snap out of it, but this guy was said to be the most NFL ready DT since Sapp. We all bought that hype.

I'm not saying he sucks yet, but he has a long, long way to go.

Deberg_1990
11-24-2008, 10:12 AM
Sims > Dorsey

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:12 AM
what part of it takes more than 10 games to develop a DT haven't you read?

Yeah i've heard that numerous times. I dont buy it.

Mr. Arrowhead
11-24-2008, 10:12 AM
some people are idiots

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-24-2008, 10:13 AM
"Why are you so quick to call the other posters dumbasses, 'Hamas'?"

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 10:13 AM
Your and idiot.

Micjones
11-24-2008, 10:13 AM
DT is one of the toughest positions for a rookie to come in an dominate.
I'm not at all concerned about Dorsey at this point.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 10:14 AM
while his footwork and conditioning need some work (off season training and hitting the weights can resolve that) he's doing his job atm and drawing doubleteams. its not his fault our Ends cant beat man coverage. i think just like our passing game last year... people knew we couldnt pass so they stacked 8 or 9 guys in the box to stop the run. this year teams know our ends couldnt sack an old lady crossing the street so they jsut clog the middle and let man on man take care of our rush or.... laugh when our guys WHIFF on tackles.

evolve27
11-24-2008, 10:14 AM
Sims > Dorsey

ROFL

CoMoChief
11-24-2008, 10:16 AM
Holy Stupid Comment Batman!!!!

evolve27
11-24-2008, 10:17 AM
Think of the madness that would have gone on if we picked Derrick Harvey or Gholston at 5 and passed on Dorsey.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 10:17 AM
What's truly concerning to me is he's not improving as the year goes on.

I know the curve is big, and he'll likely snap out of it, but this guy was said to be the most NFL ready DT since Sapp. We all bought that hype.

I'm not saying he sucks yet, but he has a long, long way to go.

Sapp's rookie year stat line was 27 tackles, 3 sacks and 1 int.

Through 11 games Dorsey has 30 tackles, 1 sack and 1 FF.

DaWolf
11-24-2008, 10:18 AM
There's probably a reason Buffalo fired Tim Krumrie...

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:18 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

FringeNC
11-24-2008, 10:18 AM
How have other top 5 DTs done their first year? We need a control group.

That said, as bad as our front four is, there should definitely be concern.

Mr. Arrowhead
11-24-2008, 10:18 AM
Yeah i've heard that numerous times. I dont buy it.
So your saying the facts are a myth. It been proven time after time, that DT arent a big impact in their rookie year, just look at the numbers.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:19 AM
You're a top 5 pick, you should be kicking the sh*t out of ppl

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 10:19 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

You are a dumb fucking retard.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:20 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

Hes also a DT that usually takes at least three years to live up to they hype... Maybe you need to look at other "great" DTs and see how they did their rookie years, because Dorsey is already ahead of most of them.

evolve27
11-24-2008, 10:21 AM
You're a top 5 pick, you should be kicking the sh*t out of ppl

You should be our new Defensive Line Coach.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:21 AM
You're a top 5 pick, you should be kicking the sh*t out of ppl

I don't know any top five pick that can manhandle 5-7 NFL blockers all by himself.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:21 AM
So your saying the facts are a myth. It been proven time after time, that DT arent a big impact in their rookie year, just look at the numbers.

No im saying that. im looking at how he is doing this year. He isnt making any progress. Like Badguy said, he isn't improving as the season goes on.

Brock
11-24-2008, 10:22 AM
You're a top 5 pick, you should be kicking the sh*t out of ppl

Can you strain your mind a bit and go look at how other highly drafted defensive linemen have performed as rookies? Or is that too difficult? He might be Ryan Sims or he might be Warren Sapp. It's stupid to throw him on the trash heap like you're doing at this point.

Woodrow Call
11-24-2008, 10:23 AM
Granted stats don't tell the whole story but...

Year One
Sapp 26 Tackles 3 sacks
Haynesworth 30 tackles 1 sack

Dorsey 30 tackles 1 sack with 5 games to go.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 10:24 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

Moronic. I guess Warren Sapp, Mario Williams and Albert Haynesworth were all busts after 1 year, right?

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:24 AM
Granted stats don't tell the whole story but...

Year One
Sapp 26 Tackles 3 sacks
Haynesworth 30 tackles 1 sack

Dorsey 30 tackles 1 sack with 5 games to go.

OMG! Hes already as good as Haynesworth with five games left! Bust!

OnTheWarpath58
11-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Granted stats don't tell the whole story but...

Year One
Sapp 26 Tackles 3 sacks
Haynesworth 30 tackles 1 sack

Dorsey 30 tackles 1 sack with 5 games to go.

I'd be interested to know who the 3 starting DLmen around those two players were as well.

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 10:25 AM
When Buffalo had the early drive in the game when they got down to goalline and we stuffed them the first 3 times - Dorsey and Tank were blowing shit up.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Can you strain your mind a bit and go look at how other highly drafted rookie defensive linemen have performed as rookies? Or is that too difficult? He might be Ryan Sims or he might be Warren Sapp. It's stupid to throw him on the trash heap like you're doing at this point.

I believe in improvement as the season goes on. Is he showing it this year as the season goes? no.

They drafted him to be the centerpiece of the Dline, and the Dline is the worst Ive seen it. Not only the worst but the possibly the worst ever? That says enough right there.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Seriously, people who don't understand how things in the NFL work shouldn't be aloud to create threads.

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 10:26 AM
Seriously, people who don't understand how things in the NFL work shouldn't be aloud to create threads.

We would have about 10 to 15 people making football threads then.

Brock
11-24-2008, 10:26 AM
I believe in improvement as the season goes on. Is he showing it this year as the season goes? no.

They drafted him to be the centerpiece of the Dline, and the Dline is the worst Ive seen it. Not only the worst but the possibly the worst ever? That says enough right there.

I don't think you're qualified to judge his progress.

Micjones
11-24-2008, 10:27 AM
It generally takes 3 years for even the best DT's to play to their skill level.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:27 AM
We would have about 10 to 15 people making football threads then.

shit, I don't know if its even that high :)

FringeNC
11-24-2008, 10:28 AM
It's too early to call Dorsey a bust, but how many of Dorsey's supporters would still want to pick him if we could go back in time?

If we put Albert and Dorsey on the trading block, I'm fairly confident Albert would fetch more.

Tuckdaddy
11-24-2008, 10:29 AM
No way to tell on Dorsey yet. Rookies have to be given a season to adjust.

Chiefnj2
11-24-2008, 10:30 AM
It's too early to declare him a bust. It isn't too early to say he sucks right now.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:33 AM
For all who say it takes time,

then how do you explain the play of thigpen? hes a qb..but ive heard qb needs time too...how do you explain Flowers? he's a CB...but yet i hear CBs need time too...how do you explain Jared Allen? when he got playing time early in his career, he was getting sacks and blowing plays up...and became allpro in his 3rd, 4th year.

yeah ok Dorsey is a rookie, but he is getting owned 90% of the time he out there. Not even close to doing well. yeah he showed some flashes of blowing plays up...at the rate he is going, i dont see significant progress...he is at best looking like he could be an average player and thats being nice.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:34 AM
People were saying the same thing about Hali in his rookie year...now what?

Oh yeah give him time he'll be ok

pr_capone
11-24-2008, 10:34 AM
I bet you also wanted to shitcan TonyG back in his rookie year because he had trouble catching the ball and was not all that good of a blocker either, right?

Give the kid time.

He has almost no help on the D-Line so the O-Line is free to focus on him.

He could be triple teamed and we still could sack a QB.

OnTheWarpath58
11-24-2008, 10:35 AM
It's too early to call Dorsey a bust, but how many of Dorsey's supporters would still want to pick him if we could go back in time?

If we put Albert and Dorsey on the trading block, I'm fairly confident Albert would fetch more.

Of course he would.

A franchise LT is the 2nd most important position on the field.

Some say it's the most important...

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:38 AM
I bet you also wanted to shitcan TonyG back in his rookie year because he had trouble catching the ball and was not all that good of a blocker either, right?

Give the kid time.

He has almost no help on the D-Line so the O-Line is free to focus on him.

He could be triple teamed and we still could sack a QB.

No I had a lot of faith in Tony. He made progress as the season went on.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:38 AM
Dorsey is also being lined up at NT when hes a UT.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:39 AM
No I had a lot of faith in Tony. He made progress as the season went on.

I don't think Dorsey is getting worse, and to me he looks a little better than he did the first game.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't think Dorsey is getting worse, and to me he looks a little better than he did the first game.

dorsey is not getting worse, but he aint getting better either

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:42 AM
dorsey is not getting worse, but he aint getting better either

Whos his Dline coach? Whos his DC? Whos his HC? Who else is on our defense? Is our defense bad or just our ROOKIE DT thats already ahead of most great DT's their rookie year?

HemiEd
11-24-2008, 10:42 AM
what part of it takes more than 10 games to develop a DT haven't you read?

It probably takes more than that for any position, but especially where he is playing, with poor DEs. If JA was still here, he may be getting some more help.

Bob Dole
11-24-2008, 10:44 AM
This place is amazing.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:44 AM
You know I with the Titans were as smart as you so they would have released that bust Haynesworth after his rookie year, because we probably would have been dumb enough to bring him in.

Brock
11-24-2008, 10:44 AM
It's too early to call Dorsey a bust, but how many of Dorsey's supporters would still want to pick him if we could go back in time?

If we put Albert and Dorsey on the trading block, I'm fairly confident Albert would fetch more.

Dorsey was absolutely the correct pick to make.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 10:51 AM
Someone will have to remember to bump this thread in a couple years.

Demonpenz
11-24-2008, 10:52 AM
:clap: nail on head

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 10:55 AM
Redbull is reaching KCJ level of idiocy.

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:02 AM
Dorsey was absolutely the correct pick to make.

:clap:

To throw Dorsey to the curb already is stupidity.

YES, there are some CB's/QB's/RB's that come into the league and play well immediately, that goes without saying. But DLine is the most unappreciated positions to NFL fans. They do NOT get the credit they deserve. It takes talent, technique, power, agility, and intelligence to play DT and DE's.

Why would an offensive line even worry about double teaming our End's. It's like holding a midget at arm's length. One man at DT is not going to stop several other 300+ lb men. It is a team effort in the trenches, more so than at ANY other point on the field, both offensively and defensively.

Comparing Dorsey in college vs. NFL is also apples to oranges. The men across the line of scrimmage in college are probably working at an car dealership right now. The men he faces now are talented, have their technique down to a science, have NFL caliber coaching, are in peak physical condition, and the invaluable asset of experience vs. those simliar in physical ability.

Dorsey is a 24 yr old rookie, playing one of the most physically demanding sports, who is still developing his technique and honing his skillset. And so far, in his rookie year, has outperformed DT greats.

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:07 AM
Oh...and Gunther sucks. :)

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:07 AM
Whos his Dline coach? Whos his DC? Whos his HC? Who else is on our defense? Is our defense bad or just our ROOKIE DT thats already ahead of most great DT's their rookie year?

Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 11:08 AM
I blame the coaching. how ANYBODY can thrive under that level of idiocy (only eclipsed by some of the posters here) is beyond me. how the fuck did jared allen do well under this coaching staff? who the fuck knows.

Bob Dole
11-24-2008, 11:08 AM
http://www.aceonsports.com/uploaded_images/herm_edwards-759888.jpg

Mmmmm. Fig newtons.

JASONSAUTO
11-24-2008, 11:09 AM
Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

come on man, JA came in as an unknown had 9 sacks BUT ONLY 31 TACKLES, thats really "blowing plays up all over the place" 9 sacks was good but come on

Micjones
11-24-2008, 11:09 AM
Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

It's easier to come right in and contribute at DE.
DT might be the hardest position on defense to transition into from the college ranks.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 11:10 AM
Mmmmm. Fig newtons.

well played sir

JASONSAUTO
11-24-2008, 11:11 AM
For all who say it takes time,

then how do you explain the play of thigpen? hes a qb..but ive heard qb needs time too...how do you explain Flowers? he's a CB...but yet i hear CBs need time too...how do you explain Jared Allen? when he got playing time early in his career, he was getting sacks and blowing plays up...and became allpro in his 3rd, 4th year.

yeah ok Dorsey is a rookie, but he is getting owned 90% of the time he out there. Not even close to doing well. yeah he showed some flashes of blowing plays up...at the rate he is going, i dont see significant progress...he is at best looking like he could be an average player and thats being nice.

took JA 3 or 4 years to become AP? then STFU until then

the Talking Can
11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

is today Retarded Day?

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
It's easier to come right in and contribute at DE.
DT might be the hardest position on defense to transition into from the college ranks.

:clap::clap::clap:

Completely Agree.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
I blame the coaching. how ANYBODY can thrive under that level of idiocy (only eclipsed by some of the posters here) is beyond me. how the **** did jared allen do well under this coaching staff? who the **** knows.

Too many people are focused on the coaching. That's the problem.

they think everything is coaching. yeah coaching is part of it don't get me wrong. Im not a fan of Krumrie, gunther, and Herm.

Of course, and I heard many times, well Brodie Croyle can't succeed with this coaching staff? Yeah well its him too. He can't stay healthy.

JASONSAUTO
11-24-2008, 11:13 AM
is today Retarded Day?

ROFL and i love your new avatar, TTC

RNR
11-24-2008, 11:15 AM
"I am reminded of a 2nd round pick Oakland had several ago. He was interviewed about his rookie camp he told the story about going against a aging Art Shell. The first time he got up off the ground with a welt on his cheek. He brought up the welt because it returned through out his career when ever he got hit.

He laughed about how humiliated he was being handled by a great but well past his prime LT. He made very little impact for a couple years, many thought he was a reach when drafted and had written him off by the time he started catching on to the game.

He was not a DT he was DE although he made his name playing up and down the line of scrimmage. The guys name is Howie Long. My point is who knows if Dorsey is a bust, a All Pro, or a Hall of Famer. I do know this nobody has a clue what this kid will amount to after a handful of games."

This was my reply to another thread about Dorsey. It is amazing people are ready to call this guy a bust this early.

Demonpenz
11-24-2008, 11:17 AM
We need to get a DT through the draft or free agency next year that is for sure. Dorsey is a rotational player at best :clap:

Brock
11-24-2008, 11:17 AM
Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

you are aware you're comparing two different positions, yes? I have to make sure, because you're coming across like a complete moron.

Brock
11-24-2008, 11:18 AM
We need to get a DT through the draft or free agency next year that is for sure. Dorsey is a rotational player at best :clap:

Your schtick is played.

the Talking Can
11-24-2008, 11:18 AM
We need to get a DT through the draft or free agency next year that is for sure. Dorsey is a rotational player at best :clap:

i heart you, demonpenz

kcchiefsus
11-24-2008, 11:18 AM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

Your a fucking idiot. Do us a favor and kill yourself.

the Talking Can
11-24-2008, 11:19 AM
wow..almost simultaneous divergent opinions...

ROFL

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:20 AM
"I am reminded of a 2nd round pick Oakland had several ago. He was interviewed about his rookie camp he told the story about going against a aging Art Shell. The first time he got up off the ground with a welt on his cheek. He brought up the welt because it returned through out his career when ever he got hit.

He laughed about how humiliated he was being handled by a great but well past his prime LT. He made very little impact for a couple years, many thought he was a reach when drafted and had written him off by the time he started catching on to the game.

He was not a DT he was DE although he made his name playing up and down the line of scrimmage. The guys name is Howie Long. My point is who knows if Dorsey is a bust, a All Pro, or a Hall of Famer. I do know this nobody has a clue what this kid will amount to after a handful of games."

This was my reply to another thread about Dorsey. It is amazing people are ready to call this guy a bust this early.

I have a lot of respect for Howie and thought he was a great football player.

some guys progress faster, some guys progress slower. i should of said mentioned that in my posts. But, and this is my opinion and were all entitled to having one, I really don't think Dorsey will be a good football player. I dont see it.

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:20 AM
This was my reply to another thread about Dorsey. It is amazing people are ready to call this guy a bust this early.

The season was FedExed to hell, and people are looking for a target to point the finger to.

HOWIE'S son hasn't had his name called once on SportsCenter this year!!

"oh my god, Chris will never be the player his father was. He must be a bust"

We have a sh*tty defense and people are blaming it on Glenn Dorsey because he was the highest pick.

kcchiefsus
11-24-2008, 11:21 AM
Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

Albert Haynesworth had 30 tackles and 1 sack as a rookie. Now he has 14.5 sacks over the past 2 seasons and is looking like a DPOY candidate again. I wonder if Titans fans were calling him a bust (especially after the head stomping incident). Probably not quite as much as Chiefs fans are with Dorsey because I can't imagine any other fanbase having as many dumbasses like you. So before you continue to prove your ignorance how about you just shut the fuck up.

RNR
11-24-2008, 11:22 AM
I have a lot of respect for Howie and thought he was a great football player.

some guys progress faster, some guys progress slower. i should of said mentioned that in my posts. But, and this is my opinion and were all entitled to having one, I really don't think Dorsey will be a good football player. I dont see it.

Cool I just think it is way too early to know. I agree to disagree :)

kcchiefsus
11-24-2008, 11:22 AM
I have a lot of respect for Howie and thought he was a great football player.

some guys progress faster, some guys progress slower. i should of said mentioned that in my posts. But, and this is my opinion and were all entitled to having one, I really don't think Dorsey will be a good football player. I dont see it.

Did you see Haynesworth being a good football player after he put almost the exact same stat line through 16 games as a rookie that Dorsey has put up through 11 games?

My god your a fucking tool.

Demonpenz
11-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Since dorsey isn't playing well why don't we try him at a different position to get some sort of value. Maybe we can play him on special teams to block for our return game.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Albert Haynesworth had 30 tackles and 1 sack as a rookie. Now he has 14.5 sacks over the past 2 seasons and is looking like a DPOY candidate again. I wonder if Titans fans were calling him a bust (especially after the head stomping incident). Probably not quite as much as Chiefs fans are with Dorsey because I can't imagine any other fanbase having as many dumbasses like you. So before you continue to prove your ignorance how about you just shut the **** up.

You call me ignorant, read your own post and tell me who is ignorant. You hypocritical bastard

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Did you see Haynesworth being a good football player after he put almost the exact same stat line through 16 games as a rookie that Dorsey has put up through 11 games?

My god your a ****ing tool.

Stats are not a telling story about DT play.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 11:26 AM
On a serious note, what specifically do you guys mean by hes being played differently than college? I mean I DO NOT for a moment think hes a bust, however I wont pretend to know the intricacies of the D-Line as well as others. So can I get a gist of what is meant by that?

thanks

chiefsngop
11-24-2008, 11:27 AM
He could end up being a bust, he could end up in the Hall Of Fame.

Anyone calling him a for sure bust, doesn't know how to read stat lines.

Look at all the dominant DT's in the NFL right now, then refer back to their rookie year stat lines.

It is incredibly easy to prove that a DT's rookie season doesn't prove sh*t.

That's not an opinion, it's statistical fact.

Demonpenz
11-24-2008, 11:28 AM
On a serious note, what specifically do you guys mean by hes being played differently than college? I mean I DO NOT for a moment think hes a bust, however I wont pretend to know the intricacies of the D-Line as well as others. So can I get a gist of what is meant by that?

thanks

In college he was allowed to go up the field and make plays, making penitration is the key. The way we are using him right now is to have him Stand up and pushed back 5 yards where he will either fall down or fall down while the ball carrier goes past him

Micjones
11-24-2008, 11:30 AM
Patience is a virtue. Especially as it relates to Defensive Tackles.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 11:30 AM
In college he was allowed to go up the field and make plays, making penitration is the key. The way we are using him right now is to have him Stand up and pushed back 5 yards where he will either fall down or fall down while the ball carrier goes past him

jokes aside, are you saying he was supposed to get upfield in college and here his job is to draw doubleteams?

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 11:31 AM
jokes aside, are you saying he was supposed to get upfield in college and here his job is to draw doubleteams?

Pretty much.

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 11:32 AM
But, and this is my opinion and were all entitled to having one, I really don't think Dorsey will be a good football player. I dont see it.

No, your entitlement to an opinion has been revoked.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 11:32 AM
Pretty much.

well HTF does Herm/Gun expect to get sacks if we apparently arent going for them? if he cant get upfield then who IS supposed to?

thx btw :hail:

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 11:33 AM
I love it you throw a rookie DT under the bus, when there are way more problems on this team and people to throw under the bus

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:33 AM
I have a lot of respect for Howie and thought he was a great football player.

some guys progress faster, some guys progress slower. i should of said mentioned that in my posts. But, and this is my opinion and were all entitled to having one, I really don't think Dorsey will be a good football player. I dont see it.

You absolutely do.

I just don't like seeing the worst season I have ever seen as a Chiefs fan be blamed on one guy. Yes, he was our highest pick, yes he is making millions, but money doesn't buy experience. That is a real guy out there who is trying his best to flow the sinking ship just a little while longer.

Last year at this time, least we forget, he was probably studying for an algebra test. Now he's being judged by millions of pissed off fans looking for someone's head to roll while trying to learn an extremely tough position especially for NFL players.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:35 AM
He could end up being a bust, he could end up in the Hall Of Fame.

Anyone calling him a for sure bust, doesn't know how to read stat lines.

Look at all the dominant DT's in the NFL right now, then refer back to their rookie year stat lines.

It is incredibly easy to prove that a DT's rookie season doesn't prove sh*t.

That's not an opinion, it's statistical fact.

I know it may be early...but honestly i really dont like what i see in him. He is not showing any signs of progress, he gets pushed back quite a bit and often. I dont see him using any moves, its just pure raw straight bull rush 90% of the time. He lacks explosion BIGTIME. that is coming off the ball.

His footwork is absolutely terrible.

Lack or explosion and bad footwork=death for any lineman

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 11:38 AM
well HTF does Herm/Gun expect to get sacks if we apparently arent going for them? if he cant get upfield then who IS supposed to?

thx btw :hail:

Tank and Dorsey need to switch. Tank is built to be the double team blocking machine. I have no clue why those dumb idiots are doing what they are doing.

xbarretx
11-24-2008, 11:40 AM
Tank and Dorsey need to switch. Tank is built to be the double team blocking machine. I have no clue why those dumb idiots are doing what they are doing.

good question. toss that one up during the next 810 call in or the next 101 the fox post game.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 11:40 AM
You absolutely do.

I just don't like seeing the worst season I have ever seen as a Chiefs fan be blamed on one guy. Yes, he was our highest pick, yes he is making millions, but money doesn't buy experience. That is a real guy out there who is trying his best to flow the sinking ship just a little while longer.

Last year at this time, least we forget, he was probably studying for an algebra test. Now he's being judged by millions of pissed off fans looking for someone's head to roll while trying to learn an extremely tough position especially for NFL players.

It's not fair to point fingers. Not saying he is the reason for the worst Chiefs season ever? but he is part of the equation? It's not all on him, its a combination of a lot of things for this absolute disaster. I believe ownership is the root of the problem.

pr_capone
11-24-2008, 11:47 AM
No, you're entitlement to an opinion has been revoked.

ROFL

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:48 AM
It's not fair to point fingers. Not saying he is the reason for the worst Chiefs season ever? but he is part of the equation? It's not all on him, its a combination of a lot of things for this absolute disaster. I believe ownership is the root of the problem.

I will agree with your last statement, for sure. :D

Give him time. If he hasn't made strides in a year and begins to become the DT that he has the potential to become, then I'll completely agree with you.

As for now, your assessment of him is limited, as is everyone else's.

He is raw, but has talent and A LOT of upside.

Sapp had 27 Tackles 1 int in his rookie season.

Dorsey has already exceeded his tackles and matched his int stats. Plus forced a fumble in less games.

I just think everyone expected him to come in and explode off the ball, and pancake opposing guards. I knew that he would be slow in coming, DT's always are unless they have more talent on either side of them, which Dorsey most definatly does not have.

I believe he will be good and a much needed motivational leader for the Chiefs.

talastan
11-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Dorsey is doing great for a rookie DT. I'd be interested to see the average years of playing some of these veteran O-lineman that Dorsey is positioned against. I honestly don't remember any real rookie guards or centers that he has played against, or any backups for that matter. Has he played against any?

The fact is the past five games are strictly on Herm/Gun's _efense as a unit. We can't get a pass rush, and our LB can't tackle for Shite. IMO Dorsey is the only one consistantly driving throughout the game. He is drawing the most double teams, and is the one who has IMO gotten the best penetration at the LOS, when we have gotten penetration.

PhillyChiefFan
11-24-2008, 11:54 AM
He is drawing the most double teams, and is the one who has IMO gotten the best penetration at the LOS, when we have gotten penetration.

So true, he draws double teams, and that SHOULD open up the opportunity for sacks or tackles for loss by other lineman/DE's. Sometimes the stats don't tell the whole truth of the player.

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 11:54 AM
This will be a fun thread to bring up when dorsey gets help and coaching around him

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:04 PM
I will agree with your last statement, for sure. :D

Give him time. If he hasn't made strides in a year and begins to become the DT that he has the potential to become, then I'll completely agree with you.

As for now, your assessment of him is limited, as is everyone else's.

He is raw, but has talent and A LOT of upside.

Sapp had 27 Tackles 1 int in his rookie season.

Dorsey has already exceeded his tackles and matched his int stats. Plus forced a fumble in less games.

I just think everyone expected him to come in and explode off the ball, and pancake opposing guards. I knew that he would be slow in coming, DT's always are unless they have more talent on either side of them, which Dorsey most definatly does not have.

I believe he will be good and a much needed motivational leader for the Chiefs.

Appreciate your encouragement of faith.

But he has a long, long way to go.

There is a lot of room for improvement thats for sure. He had great explosion and power for a DT coming out of college. I watched LSU games last year, so I don't doubt him in that regard. It just hasn't transcended well for him at the NFL level. Maybe part of the reason is his difficulty to adjust at the NFL level? The speed of the game is a heck of a lot faster.

*I don't consider Dorsey raw. He needs to do something that can improve on his technique, but I really think he is gonna need a great off-season workout going for him or something in order for himself to make strides.

Rooster
11-24-2008, 12:04 PM
I think he will be fine. The only concern is that he hasn't shown any Flashes this year. Every good young player shows Flashes of things to come every once in a while. A great play here or a great play there. He just hasn't had those yet. I'm not worried though. I think he will be a good player when he learns his technique.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:06 PM
Who was Jared Allens Dline coach? bob Karmelowiz...Yeah Bob ****n Karmelowiz

Who was JAs DC? Goonther

Who was JAs HC? And Vermeil the man who knows nothing about defense.

IT'S Dorsey. He justs sucks and is what he is a "non-factor". Chief fans I know its tough to swallow, but he is what he is. It's reality.

Are you really dumb enough to compare a DE to a DT? I think there is a reason their positions have different names.

Chiefnj2
11-24-2008, 12:06 PM
If you go back to the year 2000 and look at the draft classes of DT's picked in the top 10 then Dorsey is underperforming. I'll leave Okoye out since everyone is saying you need 3 years. The guys that come in strong appear to have the ability to keep it up with the exception of Warren who is merely average. The guys who started off slow pretty much busted.

Robertson (Jets 4th) - 34 tackles and 1.5 sacks. Current status - slumming with Denver.

Sullivan (Saints 6th) - 26 tackles and 1 sack. Current Status - out of football.

K. Williams (Vikings 9th) - * 18 tackles, 5 sacks, 1ff, 1 INT. - Status - Pro Bowl player**

R. Sims (KC) - only started 2 games rookie year. First full year 35 tackles and 3 sacks. Status - rotational DT with the Bucs.

J. Henderson (Jax 9th) - 46 tackles and 6.5 sacks. Status - High quality player.

G. Warren (Browns 3rd) - 48 tackles and 5.0 sacks. Status - starter Raiders.

Corey Simon (Eagles 6th) 38 tackles and 9.5 sacks. Status - After a strong 4 years he ballooned in weight and started holding out. He got fatter, got hurt and is retired (I believe).

* Kevin Williams played 4 games at the end of the year at DT. He started at LDE. The stats posted were his DT stats only (month of December).

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:13 PM
Are you really dumb enough to compare a DE to a DT? I think there is a reason their positions have different names.

Im just trying to prove a point that sometimes its not always about coaching.

Like some here make it seem.

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 12:14 PM
Im just trying to prove a point that sometimes its not always about coaching.

Like some here make it seem.

Can't you give him more than 11 games? really

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:17 PM
Im just trying to prove a point that sometimes its not always about coaching.

Like some here make it seem.

Some players can jump right in, most players take time. He was compared to Warren Sapp coming out, hes already done better than Sapp did and he still has 5 games left.

Brock
11-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Im just trying to prove a point that sometimes its not always about coaching.

Like some here make it seem.

You're not really making any point at all.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:20 PM
Can't you give him more than 11 games? really

Fine.

Then I would like to see from him:

-More power, and explosion coming off the ball

-Better footwork

-His ability to be in position to close gaps, fill in on angles to the ball carrier

-better hand eye coordination, and timing

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 12:22 PM
Fine.

Then I would like to see from him:

-More power, and explosion coming off the ball

-Better footwork

-His ability to be in position to close gaps, fill in on angles to the ball carrier

-better hand eye coordination, and timing

If he is the exact same player by the end of next year then we may need to worry

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:23 PM
Some players can jump right in, most players take time. He was compared to Warren Sapp coming out, hes already done better than Sapp did and he still has 5 games left.

Really? wow..i dont see any sapp in him

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Really? wow..i dont see any sapp in him

You don't see any Pro Bowler Sapp, or you don't see any rookie year Sapp? If you didn't know, which you likely don't, there is a difference.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:25 PM
If he is the exact same player by the end of next year then we may need to worry

Keep in mind his knees aren't 100% right now either.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:25 PM
You're not really making any point at all.

And youre just being stupid

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:26 PM
And youre just being stupid

I'm sure the majority of CP thinks the same about you right now.

alanm
11-24-2008, 12:27 PM
This place is amazing.No.. just the typical Monday morning head up their ass stupidity. :spock:

Brock
11-24-2008, 12:28 PM
And youre just being stupid

I may be stupid. But I'm nowhere near as dumb as you appear right now. Sorry.

OnTheWarpath58
11-24-2008, 12:29 PM
No.. just the typical Monday morning head up their ass stupidity. :spock:

Since when has it been limited to Monday mornings?

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-24-2008, 12:30 PM
Your a fucking idiot. Do us a favor and kill yourself.

And these, shall be my minions.

Demonpenz
11-24-2008, 12:30 PM
I a saying I came up with to keep me going in the mornings

"yesterdays tomorrows wednesday"

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:31 PM
You don't see any Pro Bowler Sapp, or you don't see any rookie year Sapp? If you didn't know, which you likely don't, there is a difference.

no I dont see any probowler or rookie sapp in him at this point. i really don't. and if thats what people are expecting, then just know he has a REALLY long way to go to get there.

Im convinced that people compare him to sapp from what they saw from coming out of college. but he hasnt shown that in the nfl. And of course there is the stats, sapp had 27 tackles his rookie year, and 3 sacks....but but dorsey has 30 tackles and 1 sack. Therefore, he is already ahead of what sapp did and will be a good player? which imo is totally stupid

*the bottomline is, ive watched him these past 11 games, and have kept my eye on him, he doesnt possess the skills or qualities sapp had playing the DT position. He is far far from it.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:32 PM
I may be stupid. But I'm nowhere near as dumb as you appear right now. Sorry.

Whatever dude youre a waste of breath

Brock
11-24-2008, 12:34 PM
Whatever dude youre a waste of breath

Okay, stupid. Keep posting your stupid opinions, and I'll stop trying to straighten out your stupid thinking. OMGZ ROOKIE BUST :rolleyes:

alanm
11-24-2008, 12:35 PM
Since dorsey isn't playing well why don't we try him at a different position to get some sort of value. Maybe we can play him on special teams to block for our return game.He can be taught to long snap and take a pay cut next year. :thumb:

Micjones
11-24-2008, 12:36 PM
K. Williams (Vikings 9th) - * 18 tackles, 5 sacks, 1ff, 1 INT. - Status - Pro Bowl player**

Williams is a freak of nature. He's clearly the exception and not the rule.

R. Sims (KC) - only started 2 games rookie year. First full year 35 tackles and 3 sacks. Status - rotational DT with the Bucs.

He played in 6 games his rookie season.
So it's not exactly like he posted those numbers straight out of college.

J. Henderson (Jax 9th) - 46 tackles and 6.5 sacks. Status - High quality player.

In fairness to Dorsey, Henderson played next to a very good Marcus Stroud.

G. Warren (Browns 3rd) - 48 tackles and 5.0 sacks. Status - starter Raiders.

Warren played well in his rookie campaign, but he also played next to Tyrone Rogers who was their best Defensive Lineman that year. A pretty good Defensive Line truth be told. He had a hell of a lot more around him.

Corey Simon (Eagles 6th) 38 tackles and 9.5 sacks. Status - After a strong 4 years he ballooned in weight and started holding out. He got fatter, got hurt and is retired (I believe).

Simon played with a very good Defensive Line.
Douglas had, what, 15 sacks that year? Hollis Thomas was there then...
Whiting, Mamula...

I'm not worried about Dorsey just yet.
He has virtually nothing around him and he's done okay.

alanm
11-24-2008, 12:36 PM
Since when has it been limited to Monday mornings? True. It's now Monday afternoon. :D

Mecca
11-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Don't bring up Haynesworth...Dorsey and Haynesworth are nothing alike Haynesworth makes him look small he is several inches taller and 50lbs heavier.

I don't think Dorsey is a bad player, DTs do take time, but I do see a problem where he isn't big enough or strong enough so he needs to spend alot of time in the weight room in the offseason.

The league is going to the bigger 340lb DT now, those are the sought after guys...by having 2 undesized DT's like the Chiefs do it's almost like you're playing behind the curve the undersized fast DT was in 5 years ago but not now.

alanm
11-24-2008, 12:39 PM
And these, shall be my minions.Tis a bounty to peruse. ROFL

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:40 PM
Okay, stupid. Keep posting your stupid opinions, and I'll stop trying to straighten out your stupid thinking. OMGZ ROOKIE BUST :rolleyes:

everyone is entitled to an opinion asshole...there is a difference between accepting an opinion or just being an ignorant prick. Obviously you have a hard time accepting ones opinion

Brock
11-24-2008, 12:41 PM
Don't bring up Haynesworth...Dorsey and Haynesworth are nothing alike Haynesworth makes him look small he is several inches taller and 50lbs heavier.

I don't think Dorsey is a bad player, DTs do take time, but I do see a problem where he isn't big enough or strong enough so he needs to spend alot of time in the weight room in the offseason.

The league is going to the bigger 340lb DT now, those are the sought after guys...by having 2 undesized DT's like the Chiefs do it's almost like you're playing behind the curve the undersized fast DT was in 5 years ago but not now.

You didn't seem to be thinking this when you were saying the Chiefs should draft Sedrick Ellis.....

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:41 PM
no I dont see any probowler or rookie sapp in him at this point. i really don't. and if thats what people are expecting, then just know he has a REALLY long way to go to get there.

Im convinced that people compare him to sapp from what they saw from coming out of college. but he hasnt shown that in the nfl. And of course there is the stats, sapp had 27 tackles his rookie year, and 3 sacks....but but dorsey has 30 tackles and 1 sack. Therefore, he is already ahead of what sapp did and will be a good player? which imo is totally stupid

*the bottomline is, ive watched him these past 11 games, and have kept my eye on him, he doesnt possess the skills or qualities sapp had playing the DT position. He is far far from it.

I could be wrong, but I really doubt you watched and payed attention to every snap Sapp took as a rookie, or even remember it without getting mixed up with how he played later.

Brock
11-24-2008, 12:43 PM
everyone is entitled to an opinion asshole...there is a difference between accepting an opinion or just being an ignorant prick. Obviously you have a hard time accepting ones opinion

When the opinion is unforgiveably stupid, I don't accept it. It appears I'm not alone in thinking your opinion is beyond dumb. So I'm pretty sure it's not just me.

Mecca
11-24-2008, 12:43 PM
You didn't seem to be thinking this when you were saying the Chiefs should draft Sedrick Ellis.....

I didn't say I had a problem with the pick....all rookie DT's will need to get bigger and stronger, even the really big guys.

I think Dorsey will be a fine player but I don't think they should be lining him up with another 300lb DT.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:45 PM
I didn't say I had a problem with the pick....all rookie DT's will need to get bigger and stronger, even the really big guys.

I think Dorsey will be a fine player but I don't think they should be lining him up with another 300lb DT.

I said last night in another thread, I think we need to find a 330+ NT to line up next to Dorsey. For now I think we should have Tank and Dorsey switch places.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:45 PM
Don't bring up Haynesworth...Dorsey and Haynesworth are nothing alike Haynesworth makes him look small he is several inches taller and 50lbs heavier.

I don't think Dorsey is a bad player, DTs do take time, but I do see a problem where he isn't big enough or strong enough so he needs to spend alot of time in the weight room in the offseason.

The league is going to the bigger 340lb DT now, those are the sought after guys...by having 2 undesized DT's like the Chiefs do it's almost like you're playing behind the curve the undersized fast DT was in 5 years ago but not now.

He is 2 of the following:

not strong enough, nor quick enough. He had both coming out of college, but the NFL is a different game. He has to improve his strength and quickness to the NFL level.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-24-2008, 12:47 PM
I didn't say I had a problem with the pick....all rookie DT's will need to get bigger and stronger, even the really big guys.

I think Dorsey will be a fine player but I don't think they should be lining him up with another 300lb DT.

'Tis the curse of the Tampa 2, the in vogue defense from the days when Corduroy jeans were all the rage among high school kids.

Mecca
11-24-2008, 12:48 PM
I said last night in another thread, I think we need to find a 330+ NT to line up next to Dorsey. For now I think we should have Tank and Dorsey switch places.

I agree with that.....

Of course I don't think we'll see that because the Chiefs are still trying to run this Tampa 2 dinosaur that even Tampa Bay doesn't play anymore.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:49 PM
I think if he hits the weight room in the offseason, and gets both his knees back up to health in the offseason he will be fine.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:50 PM
I agree with that.....

Of course I don't think we'll see that because the Chiefs are still trying to run this Tampa 2 dinosaur that even Tampa Bay doesn't play anymore.

We can only hope Herm takes the same approach with defense next year that he took with the offense this year. Hire a DC and let him do his thing!

RedThat
11-24-2008, 12:50 PM
He also needs to use some more rips and swims. Too many times he is focused on bullrushing.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:52 PM
He also needs to use some more rips and swims. Too many times he is focused on bullrushing.

He needs a Dline coach to help teach him that too.

Mecca
11-24-2008, 12:52 PM
We can only hope Herm takes the same approach with defense next year that he took with the offense this year. Hire a DC and let him do his thing!

No way Herm plays a different defense, he tried to play it with the Jets when they had 3-4 players.

RustShack
11-24-2008, 12:54 PM
No way Herm plays a different defense, he tried to play it with the Jets when they had 3-4 players.

Well I don't agree that the Jets had 3-4 players while Herm was there, but yeah I knew Herm wont leave the Tampa two. I just hope he at least bring in a staff that can run it. Drafting a huge DT in the later rounds would be nice though, since we don't run the T2 every down.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-24-2008, 12:58 PM
Plain and simple.

Another bust of a DT:cuss:

JWhit is right about everything he said about Dorsey. I thought he was supposed to be the centerpiece around the DLine? "Supposively" supposed to be that difference maker?

Yeah:rolleyes:

Not even close.

I never knew you were retarded enough to proclaim a player a bust 11 games into his professional career. I'd say congratulations, but it just seems inappropriate.

Mecca
11-24-2008, 01:00 PM
Well I don't agree that the Jets had 3-4 players while Herm was there, but yeah I knew Herm wont leave the Tampa two. I just hope he at least bring in a staff that can run it. Drafting a huge DT in the later rounds would be nice though, since we don't run the T2 every down.

He came in after Parcells....John Abraham was an OLB the year before Herm got there.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Too many people are focused on the coaching. That's the problem.

they think everything is coaching. yeah coaching is part of it don't get me wrong. Im not a fan of Krumrie, gunther, and Herm.

Of course, and I heard many times, well Brodie Croyle can't succeed with this coaching staff? Yeah well its him too. He can't stay healthy.

yeah, coaching makes NO difference (oh, sorry. I now see how you said it's a 'part')

coaching is the difference between a team that 'somehow' drafts only defensive line 'gems' in the first few rounds (patriots) and a team that apparently can't draft defensive linemen for SHIT in the first few rounds (chiefs)

coaching is the difference between a young, hyped OLB developing and a young hyped OLB regressing (derrick johnson)

coaching is why siavii, freeman, sims, and maybe (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey) are looked at as busts (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey, admittadely, are only really called busts by idjits)

coaching is the difference between a guy who dominates in college (dorsey) and a struggling rookie who apparently only has ONE passrushing move.

coaching is playing guys out of position (tyler and dorsey)

coaching is playing a piece of shit (mcintosh) and maybe letting a young/talented guy get a shot

yeah. coaching makes NO difference. I mean, yeah, I guess there's no reason that the good coaches get paid better than the bad coaches. if coaching made no difference, they'd all get paid the same.

dude, seriously. stop digging the hole.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:20 PM
I know it may be early...but honestly i really dont like what i see in him. He is not showing any signs of progress, he gets pushed back quite a bit and often. I dont see him using any moves, its just pure raw straight bull rush 90% of the time. He lacks explosion BIGTIME. that is coming off the ball.

His footwork is absolutely terrible.

Lack or explosion and bad footwork=death for any lineman

wait--FOOTWORK. a position coach has NO reason to help a guy out with his footwork, correct? fuck. coaching means NOTHING

Chiefnj2
11-24-2008, 01:22 PM
yeah, coaching makes NO difference (oh, sorry. I now see how you said it's a 'part')

coaching is the difference between a team that 'somehow' drafts only defensive line 'gems' in the first few rounds (patriots) and a team that apparently can't draft defensive linemen for SHIT in the first few rounds (chiefs)

coaching is the difference between a young, hyped OLB developing and a young hyped OLB regressing (derrick johnson)

coaching is why siavii, freeman, sims, and maybe (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey) are looked at as busts (mcbride, tyler, and dorsey, admittadely, are only really called busts by idjits)

coaching is the difference between a guy who dominates in college (dorsey) and a struggling rookie who apparently only has ONE passrushing move.

coaching is playing guys out of position (tyler and dorsey)

coaching is playing a piece of shit (mcintosh) and maybe letting a young/talented guy get a shot

yeah. coaching makes NO difference. I mean, yeah, I guess there's no reason that the good coaches get paid better than the bad coaches. if coaching made no difference, they'd all get paid the same.

dude, seriously. stop digging the hole.

Guinta couldn't do anything with KCs secondary, with the Giants he looks great.

The same guy who developed Eli and Romo also "developed" Carr and Couch.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:22 PM
*I don't consider Dorsey raw. He needs to do something that can improve on his technique, but I really think he is gonna need a great off-season workout going for him or something in order for himself to make strides.

coaching won't help this. guys miraculously get better, they shouldn't even fucking pay the coaches. right? right?

EyePod
11-24-2008, 01:26 PM
What's truly concerning to me is he's not improving as the year goes on.

I know the curve is big, and he'll likely snap out of it, but this guy was said to be the most NFL ready DT since Sapp. We all bought that hype.

I'm not saying he sucks yet, but he has a long, long way to go.

Sapp's Stats

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="8%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>SOLO</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>PD</TD><TD>SACK</TD><TD>FF</TD><TD>REC</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>TD</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>1995</TD><TD align=left>TAM</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>26</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>3.0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Glenn Dorsey Stats

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left width="8%">YEAR</TD><TD align=left width="8%">TEAM</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>SOLO</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>PD</TD><TD>SACK</TD><TD>FF</TD><TD>REC</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>TD</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2008</TD><TD align=left>KAN</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>25</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So he has more tackles, a few less sacks, needs an int.... Ummm
These are actually pretty solid stats for a rookie D-Tackle, and Dorsey has 5 more games left. I agree that he isn't as influential as Sapp was his rookie season, but I also thought that Matt Ryan would be terrible, so what do I know.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:29 PM
He needs a Dline coach to help teach him that too.

but coaching isn't everything. coaching won't help dorsey. FLAIL FLAIL, OMG, TEH FIRST ROUND BUST! ROOKIE BUST! OMGZ

Sure-Oz
11-24-2008, 01:32 PM
Who did Sapp have around him his rookie year?

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:33 PM
Guinta couldn't do anything with KCs secondary, with the Giants he looks great.

The same guy who developed Eli and Romo also "developed" Carr and Couch.

depends on how you define 'great'

in 2007, they were 11th against the pass (giants). his secondaries ALSO benefit(ted) by having a tremendous pass rush ahead of them. you give some of those chiefs teams strahan, tuck and umenyiora, and I guarantee they're ranked higher than they ended up being ranked.

oh, and he had robinson to contend with in KC and an atmosphere of 'fuck defense.' he has one of, if not THE, best defensive coordinators in football in new york. you may have heard of him? steve spagnuola.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 01:34 PM
LMAO Your football knowledge knows no bounds...

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 01:35 PM
some people are idiots

Yeah i've heard that numerous times. I dont buy it.:)

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 01:36 PM
Who did Sapp have around him his rookie year?

Santana Dotson, Brad Culpepper and Chidi Ahanotu.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 01:39 PM
wait--FOOTWORK. a position coach has NO reason to help a guy out with his footwork, correct? ****. coaching means NOTHING

whos job is it to demonstrate that on the field? The player.

A coach can advise him, but it's the players responsibility to work and practice what he needs to do to improve.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:40 PM
Santana Dotson, Brad Culpepper and Chidi Ahanotu.

tell me that wasn't from your memory. if it was, impressive recollection.

I remember ahonotu and dotson. they were decent to good. culpepper I don't remember, and I'm not motivated enough to check the google and find out.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 01:42 PM
I believe in improvement as the season goes on. Is he showing it this year as the season goes? no.

They drafted him to be the centerpiece of the Dline, and the Dline is the worst Ive seen it. Not only the worst but the possibly the worst ever? That says enough right there.OMG You obtuse, retarded chimp. Would you just look at the damn stats people are posting. Thats all you need to know.

RedThat
11-24-2008, 01:44 PM
coaching won't help this. guys miraculously get better, they shouldn't even ****ing pay the coaches. right? right?

It's his job to review film of himself, and see where he needs to improve. And practice upon it.

Great players do it all the time. Coaches can advise, and guide. As far as the training programs go, he can hire his own trainer to help in that regard..or have him design an offseason workout program what he needs to do?

DaKCMan AP
11-24-2008, 01:44 PM
tell me that wasn't from your memory. if it was, impressive recollection.

I remember ahonotu and dotson. they were decent to good. culpepper I don't remember, and I'm not motivated enough to check the google and find out.

Culpepper was workmanlike. Now he runs a law firm in Tampa.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Of course he would.

A franchise LT is the 2nd most important position on the field.

Some say it's the most important...This

RedThat
11-24-2008, 01:45 PM
OMG You obtuse, retarded chimp. Would you just look at the damn stats people are posting. Thats all you need to know.

i dont focus on stats.

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:47 PM
whos job is it to demonstrate that on the field? The player.

A coach can advise him, but it's the players responsibility to work and practice what he needs to do to improve.

but since you're the expert, now is the time when you come and tell us conclusively that you've SEEN how he's been coached, and that he's just too fucking stupid to pick up on the coaching.

oh yeah. I forget. this is the team that has had the following players bust out IN A ROW. eric downing, ryan sims, eddie freeman, junior siavii, and (maybe) tank tyler, turk mcbride, and glenn dorsey (according to you)

yeah. all of those guys where just too fucking stupid and nonmotivated to listen to the awesome great coaching they received (or did they?)

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 01:49 PM
i dont focus on stats.

you know where you went awry on this thread? when you went full-blown retard.

http://snarkerati.com/movie-news/files/2008/08/robert-downey-jr-tropic-thunder.jpg

RedThat
11-24-2008, 02:00 PM
but since you're the expert, now is the time when you come and tell us conclusively that you've SEEN how he's been coached, and that he's just too ****ing stupid to pick up on the coaching.

oh yeah. I forget. this is the team that has had the following players bust out IN A ROW. eric downing, ryan sims, eddie freeman, junior siavii, and (maybe) tank tyler, turk mcbride, and glenn dorsey (according to you)

yeah. all of those guys where just too ****ing stupid and nonmotivated to listen to the awesome great coaching they received (or did they?)

How the heck am I supposed to know how hes being coached? Am i behind the scenes to see how these guys are being prepared? I dont know.

Speaking of stupid, and nonmotivated. One thing I do know, I remember watching HBO hard knocks and they showed a clip of Tank Tyler sleeping while they were playing film. Now I dont know if that was for show or for real.

If it is real, do you know how ****n bad that is?

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 02:03 PM
You didn't seem to be thinking this when you were saying the Chiefs should draft Sedrick Ellis.....This LMAO

Ebolapox
11-24-2008, 02:06 PM
How the heck am I supposed to know how hes being coached? Am i behind the scenes to see how these guys are being prepared? I dont know.


finally the truth comes out. jesus. and I thought you were football messiah and knew everything.

so you DON'T know that the coaching isn't horrible. is it possible, nay, probable, that there's a REASON defensive tackles bust at a very high rate in KC for a REASON?!?

maybe a good DL coach could help our guys have that second or third passrushing move. maybe a good DL coach could make them better prepared. maybe, just fucking maybe, a better DL coach could lead to more than six fucking sacks through 11 games

EyePod
11-24-2008, 02:09 PM
People talk about Dorsey as if hes some sort of project?

WTF? He is a TOP 5 PICK! Came from a great school with a great program, arguable came out as one of the best defensive players in the country, but he needs time?

yeah i aint buying that. youre either good, and you have it, or you don't.

yeah i also want my chiefs finishing shit so they can a top pick again..Dorsey is an example how finishing sh*t can hurt you.

This is why you're an idiot. I'd rather have Herm in charge of our team for 5 years like Gretz said than have you involved at all.

chiefsngop
11-24-2008, 02:10 PM
I know it may be early...but honestly i really dont like what i see in him. He is not showing any signs of progress, he gets pushed back quite a bit and often. I dont see him using any moves, its just pure raw straight bull rush 90% of the time. He lacks explosion BIGTIME. that is coming off the ball.

His footwork is absolutely terrible.

Lack or explosion and bad footwork=death for any lineman

His lack of explosion could very well be caused by "thinking too much" and not just "playing". That usually works it's way out of a rookie in one season.

The rest of the items you listed can directly be tied to poor coaching. Get some better mentors around him and improvement could start immediately. And I think change is on the way in the defensive coaching department. (pray)

RedThat
11-24-2008, 02:10 PM
finally the truth comes out. jesus. and I thought you were football messiah and knew everything.

so you DON'T know that the coaching isn't horrible. is it possible, nay, probable, that there's a REASON defensive tackles bust at a very high rate in KC for a REASON?!?

maybe a good DL coach could help our guys have that second or third passrushing move. maybe a good DL coach could make them better prepared. maybe, just ****ing maybe, a better DL coach could lead to more than six ****ing sacks through 11 games

I said coaching isn't everything. And it's not. it's both players and coaching.

Is there a reason DL dont pan out in KC? I dont know? Bad scouting? Bad Coaching? A little bit of everything?...I didnt say all coaching. You blew it out of proportion man.

BigMeatballDave
11-24-2008, 02:14 PM
i dont focus on stats.:rolleyes: Dumbass...

EyePod
11-24-2008, 02:15 PM
It's his job to review film of himself, and see where he needs to improve. And practice upon it.

Great players do it all the time. Coaches can advise, and guide. As far as the training programs go, he can hire his own trainer to help in that regard..or have him design an offseason workout program what he needs to do?

Rookie's don't normally do this. Jared didn't become any good until his 4th season!! His 2nd was really solid, but his 3rd was terrible. Because of that, he decided to study a lot mroe and become better. After his 3rd season. So stop faulting Dorsey for not hitting the books.

Chiefnj2
11-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Rookie's don't normally do this. Jared didn't become any good until his 4th season!! His 2nd was really solid, but his 3rd was terrible. Because of that, he decided to study a lot mroe and become better. After his 3rd season. So stop faulting Dorsey for not hitting the books.

Yeah, those 9 sacks in 10 games started as a rookie really sucked. He wasn't any good.

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 02:35 PM
You know what they say-a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. They traded a proven commodity and then use YOUTH as an excuse. What exactly is Hali's EXCUSE, again? Hali is Herm's draft picks come to fruition. Three years later, I think we can judge Herm's first draft.

Idahojim
11-24-2008, 02:38 PM
Come on folks. Way too early to call him a bust. It's rare that a defensive tackle has a great first year. Biggest reason? Most of them got by in college with strong legs and OK upper body strength. When they get to the NFL, they are going against the best every Sunday. The strong legs aren't enough. The upper body strength has to be there, too. Dorsey doesn't have that yet. Watch closely. He doesn't have that upper body to stand an offensive lineman up and push him around. Give him the offseason building the upper body. You'll see a big difference next year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-24-2008, 02:51 PM
Come on folks. Way too early to call him a bust. It's rare that a defensive tackle has a great first year. Biggest reason? Most of them got by in college with strong legs and OK upper body strength. When they get to the NFL, they are going against the best every Sunday. The strong legs aren't enough. The upper body strength has to be there, too. Dorsey doesn't have that yet. Watch closely. He doesn't have that upper body to stand an offensive lineman up and push him around. Give him the offseason building the upper body. You'll see a big difference next year.

There's only one moron calling him a bust in this thread.

BigChiefFan
11-24-2008, 03:01 PM
I still think Dorsey can become a dominant DT, he just needs a supporting cast. If they would have been smart, they would have used him and Boone as the DTs, with Tank subbing in, but they thought using a slow-ass DT for a DE was the solution for a pass-rush. I also think Boone could have help guide Dorsey. Our managment of players is awful.

Duck Dog
11-24-2008, 03:02 PM
Wasn't it Jerry Glanville that said it would take a natural disaster (or something like that) before he would play Bret Favre? I'm also pretty sure Favres first couple of passes in the NFL were INTS returned for TD's.

The point is, you can not call someone a bust during their initial season.

StcChief
11-24-2008, 05:02 PM
There's only one moron calling him a bust in this thread.yeah. Redbull's had one too many and he's all Caffeine hyped up.... and not really seeing what it takes to succeed in NFL. In a couple years of Ryan Simm like result..... it might be safe to say bust.

stevieray
11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
the dude is thick...have you ever seen him...? the guy just won a NC and cried when a 4-12 team picked him...if that's not the kind of player you want, then i don't know what to tell you. He's gonna be a beast..

problem is..in college, it prolly didn't take much for him to dominate..but he's with the big boys now...a couple of years in the weight room...plus he doesn't give up on plays...he pursues runners and makes tackles...what kind of year do you think he would have if JA was lining up next to him?

you're just gonna have to be patient. or not.

kansas hawk
11-24-2008, 05:35 PM
in 2003 sims had 38 tackles and 3 sacks.. then he tanked. just need dorsey to stay consistent and he will be fine

unothadeal
11-24-2008, 06:55 PM
Dorsey is playing the most physical position on the field. He's going up against big, big grown ass men. You can't expect a 23 year old to manhandle 28-32 year olds. He's going up against pro bowlers like Alan Faneca, Logan Mankins, and Kris Dielman. Give him time to grow!

JASONSAUTO
11-24-2008, 07:00 PM
the dude is thick...have you ever seen him...? the guy just won a NC and cried when a 4-12 team picked him...if that's not the kind of player you want, then i don't know what to tell you. He's gonna be a beast..

problem is..in college, it prolly didn't take much for him to dominate..but he's with the big boys now...a couple of years in the weight room...plus he doesn't give up on plays...he pursues runners and makes tackles...what kind of year do you think he would have if JA was lining up next to him?

you're just gonna have to be patient. or not.

its nice to see him and tank do this. neither one gives up on plays. good thing to see in your DTs. both big guys who would never be noticed not chasing a qb or running back 20 yards downfield, yet there they are still

Mecca
11-24-2008, 07:14 PM
If your DT is 20 yards downfield you have some pretty big problems.

David.
11-24-2008, 07:17 PM
I think Dorsey will be great when he grows into the role a bit. I would love to have a nice 340 lb run stuffer lining up beside him though.

jjchieffan
11-24-2008, 07:48 PM
Plain and simple.

Another bust of a DT:cuss:

JWhit is right about everything he said about Dorsey. I thought he was supposed to be the centerpiece around the DLine? "Supposively" supposed to be that difference maker?

Yeah:rolleyes:

Not even close.

You lost all credibility right there when you said Fatlock is right. If you actually agree with a shit stirring untalented fatass piece of shit like Fatlock, then I agree with the statement that your Thread starting privileges should be revoked. I frankly don't understand how that man keeps his job. I, for one, refuse to read his crap. If I see his crap posted here, I immediately use the ignore thread feature, because, frankly, his crap is a waste of bandwidth. I would rather pay $99 a year to read Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan drivel, than read that dumbasses shit for free.

ChiefsCountry
11-24-2008, 07:55 PM
If your DT is 20 yards downfield you have some pretty big problems.

Shows the shit we have at LB and S thats for.

Halfcan
11-24-2008, 10:37 PM
Dorsey is playing the most physical position on the field. He's going up against big, big grown ass men. You can't expect a 23 year old to manhandle 28-32 year olds. He's going up against pro bowlers like Alan Faneca, Logan Mankins, and Kris Dielman. Give him time to grow!

considering the Huge investment we have in him-I guess time is all we have.

He has not shown much of anything-but I guess we shall see.

EyePod
11-24-2008, 11:15 PM
Yeah, those 9 sacks in 10 games started as a rookie really sucked. He wasn't any good. Yeah, I missed that. I thought it was less his rookie year, my bad.

EyePod
11-24-2008, 11:18 PM
Does anyone know if both Tank and Dorsey are getting double teamed? I mean, I checked the stats, the only game where a TE did any damage against us was the SD game. Every other game, it seemed like they were non-existent. So my idea is that the other teams have been leaving their TE in to block. They double team Dorsey and Tank (center guard combo and guard tackle combo). Then, they let our DE's just sit on the outside and get blocked easily by the remaining two (TE and a tackle). FB just cleans up and RB is off to the races with our LB's....

RedThat
11-26-2008, 01:59 AM
the dude is thick...have you ever seen him...? the guy just won a NC and cried when a 4-12 team picked him...if that's not the kind of player you want, then i don't know what to tell you. He's gonna be a beast..

problem is..in college, it prolly didn't take much for him to dominate..but he's with the big boys now...a couple of years in the weight room...plus he doesn't give up on plays...he pursues runners and makes tackles...what kind of year do you think he would have if JA was lining up next to him?

you're just gonna have to be patient. or not.

You're right you make a good point...you know, i am being impatient. it does take time. some players progress slower then others. i hope he can become a good player. i really do. loved him coming out of college and was ecstatic when the Chiefs drafted him. he just hasn't been what i expected? i thought he would come in and dominate right away.

i guess one could say i was one of those fans that bought into the hype that he was the most polished DT and Sapp like player coming out.

RedThat
11-26-2008, 02:01 AM
You lost all credibility right there when you said Fatlock is right. If you actually agree with a shit stirring untalented fatass piece of shit like Fatlock, then I agree with the statement that your Thread starting privileges should be revoked. I frankly don't understand how that man keeps his job. I, for one, refuse to read his crap. If I see his crap posted here, I immediately use the ignore thread feature, because, frankly, his crap is a waste of bandwidth. I would rather pay $99 a year to read Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan drivel, than read that dumbasses shit for free.

You don't like Whitlock?

I think he is pretty good writer. I know he is a controversial, but sometimes he expresses well and makes good sense when he talks about the Chiefs.

His negativity is hard to deal with sometimes I'll admit that.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Bump o:-) Credit to ChiefsCountry BTW

Count Zarth
08-15-2011, 06:23 PM
The only front 7 defenders who made 40+ stops last year:


Kyle Williams
Ndakamong Suh
Kenyon Coleman
Justin Smith
DeMarcus Ware
James Harrison
Anthony Spencer
Cameron Wake
Terrell Suggs
Trent Cole
Justin Tuck
Charles Johnson
Glenn Dorsey

SNR
08-15-2011, 06:25 PM
This was ChiefsCountry who dug up this thread, by the way. He needs to be given credit for this.

Well done, sir.

L.A. Chieffan
08-15-2011, 06:56 PM
nice joke thread

Brock
08-31-2011, 07:01 PM
Dumbass.

philfree
08-31-2011, 07:10 PM
Fans are gettin' stressed.

seeth213
08-31-2011, 07:21 PM
Dorsey is on is way up..it takes time to develop and add strength to that position..give him one more year and you will see...you will see

GordonGekko
08-31-2011, 07:22 PM
RedThat sucks

RedThat
08-31-2011, 07:23 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.

I just want to be like Brock.

BigMeatballDave
08-31-2011, 07:36 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.

I just want to be like Brock.Dude. It's ChiefsPlanet. It's how we roll. Anything you post WILL be used against you.

RedThat
08-31-2011, 07:44 PM
Dude. It's ChiefsPlanet. It's how we roll. Anything you post WILL be used against you.

God forbid might as well be perfect!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Cephalic Trauma
08-31-2011, 07:50 PM
Dorsey is on is way up..it takes time to develop and add strength to that position..give him one more year and you will see...you will see

:doh!:
You give n00bs a bad name, man.

Marcellus
08-31-2011, 08:09 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.

I just want to be like Brock.

You don't need any help on this, your recent threads are enough.

RedThat
08-31-2011, 08:18 PM
You don't need any help on this, your recent threads are enough.

okay so then whats he proving?

NJChiefsFan
08-31-2011, 09:00 PM
:doh!:
You give n00bs a bad name, man.

Seriously he is. Thats twice in one day he couldn't understand a post was bumped to make somebody look like a hypocrite and he is responding like it was posted a week ago.

Mr. Flopnuts
08-31-2011, 09:04 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.

I just want to be like Brock.

You look like an idiot here. Much like your I hope we tank thread. Don't jump off the bridge, bro. Unless you really want too of course.

The Bad Guy
08-31-2011, 09:07 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.

I just want to be like Brock.

Make you look stupid?

You are fucking stupid.

It's not everyone else, it's you.

Pawnmower
08-31-2011, 09:08 PM
How sad is it that a guy remembers a thread from 3 years ago and has to pull it up just to try showcase me and make me look stupid.


He succeeded. It's called 'being observant' and 'posting something that doesn't suck.'

You really should try it sometime.

ChiefsandO'sfan
11-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Time to move on did anyone miss him tonight?

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-21-2011, 10:29 PM
Time to move on did anyone miss him tonight?

:drool:

Deberg_1990
11-21-2011, 10:33 PM
Time to move on did anyone miss him tonight?

nope. his absence made little difference

Count Zarth
11-21-2011, 10:34 PM
he was invisible tonight

KcMizzou
11-21-2011, 10:35 PM
he was invisible tonightLMAO

notorious
11-21-2011, 10:36 PM
4-3 geared toward aggressive DTackle play would have put his career on the right path.


Instead, he gets stuck with Herm, than he gets moved to DE in the 3-4.


Why don't we just draft a WR to play RB or a RB to play QB. It makes sense.

pr_capone
11-21-2011, 10:50 PM
4-3 geared toward aggressive DTackle play would have put his career on the right path.


Instead, he gets stuck with Herm, than he gets moved to DE in the 3-4.


Why don't we just draft a WR to play RB or a RB to play QB. It makes sense.

Well... we did draft a RB to play WR.

MahiMike
11-22-2011, 12:06 PM
Dude didn't make a play all night!

lcarus
11-22-2011, 12:46 PM
This dude said Dorsey sucks in this thread and made another thread saying we should tank the season for a shot at a good QB in the draft. What exactly is wrong about that?