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luv
11-25-2008, 09:31 PM
Yes, I've been posting articles for Claythan while he's banned. This time, however, I'm screening. Weird, last night I said no, two people posted what he wanted me to, and you guys actually discussed it.

This one I read, and agree with. It might be pointing out the obvious, but it stresses how much something needs to be done, whether it will be done or not.



http://kan.scout.com/2/815749.html

Chiefs Revisiting Their Past


By C.E. Wendler
Posted Nov 25, 2008


After the Chiefs put up their first 400-yard game of 2008 against the Bills Sunday, I started feeling an extreme case of dťjŗ vu. Thatís because weíve seen all of this before Ė a prolific offense coupled with the NFLís worst defense.

It wasnít so long ago that the exact same recipe was frustrating fans and inspiring the pundits at Arrowhead Stadium. It was 2002, Dick Vermeil and Trent Green were firing up The Greatest Show on Grass, and Greg Robinson was instructing Eric Warfield, William Bartee, Ryan Sims and Mike Maslowski in the fine art of ďThe 32 Defense.Ē

Then, like now, the Chiefs rank dead last in the NFL in total defense. Thirty-second. In fact, itís not even close. After 11 weeks, Kansas City is now allowing 406 yards per game, a full 18 yards more than the 31st ranked team.

Hereís whatís really shocking Ė this edition of ďThe 32 DefenseĒ is actually worse than the unit fielded in 2002. The 2008 Chiefs are allowing 16 more yards per game than their bygone counterparts and the yards per play (6.3 against 5.8) and third-down conversion rates (49 percent against 42 percent) arenít even close. I donít even want to compare the sack totals.

Meanwhile, KCís offense has rolled up 369 yards per game over the last five weeks and is showing no signs of slowing down. Meet the new Chiefs. Same as the old Chiefs. Somewhere, Greg Robinson is laughing.

Itís amazing, isnít it? Despite all their defensive expertise, despite all the resources theyíve spent on the defensive side of the football since Robinson departed, right now Herm Edwards and Gunther Cunningam are no better. Statistically, they are worse.

Sunday, the Bills came into Arrowhead Stadium and slapped 47 offensive points on the Chiefs. The 2002 Chiefs gave up their fair share of 40-point games, but never once did it happen at Arrowhead Stadium, and Robinsonís crew never even came close to allowing a mediocre offense (like the 2008 Bills) to steal the keys to Arrowhead.

Iím not trying to defend Robinson, Vermeil, or the failures of the past. The Chiefs werenít on the right track then, but thatís the point. They arenít on the right track now, either. Something must be done before Edwards and Cunningham reach comfortable, success-affirming mediocrity and convince Clark Hunt they will one day be great.

Do you remember what happened after that 2002 season? Despite a huge amount of public sentiment from both Chiefs fans and the Kansas City media that Robinson deserved a pink slip, Vermeil, ever loyal, stuck by his man. All it got the Chiefs was a first-round playoff exit and Robinsonís eventual resignation 12 months later.

The 2003 Chiefs could have been something special. Thereís no question they had a Super-Bowl caliber offense. But the retention of a lame-duck defensive braintrust a year too long sabotaged any realistic chances at a Lombardi.

This current Chiefs team isnít yet at that stage. Obviously there will be no playoffs this year, and a 2009 postseason bid with such a young team is unlikely.

But you know what? That makes action at this point even more imperative.

Imagine if Vermeil had never hired Robinson, Ryan Sims had never been drafted, and the Chiefs hadnít wasted their time on scabs like Dexter McCleon, Jason Belser, Derrick Ransom and Vonnie Holliday. Years of defensive frustration could have been avoided. It all could have been headed off at the pass with the right hire.

Right now thereís no question the Chiefs are building a great, young offense. Even if you donít believe Tyler Thigpen is a franchise quarterback, itís obvious he can play at a productive level in this league, and his supporting cast Ė Dwayne Bowe, Mark Bradley, Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam, Larry Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Branden Albert Ė is rock solid. A right tackle, another receiver, and Chan Gaileyís side of the ball is in great shape.

Now imagine the opportunity to build a great, young defense along with that great young offense. The Chiefs could be one of the best young teams in the NFL in two or three years with the right defensive coaches and defensive talent evaluators (for instance, someone who wonít waste second-round picks on Turk McBride and Bernard Pollard).

Maybe you believe Herm Edwards and Gunther Cunningham are those coaches. Thatís fine, but we donít need to reiterate all the draft picks and free-agent dollars that have been blown since both were hired. We also donít need to reiterate that neither man has had his hand in a great defense since the turn of the century.

What might not be obvious is that neither Edwards or Cunningham will resign willingly like Robinson. They have too much pride and even in these dark days, refuse to accept responsibility for their failures.

In fact, it was just this week that Cunningham told the Kansas City Star this terrible season is quite possibly the result of his best coaching job in years.

ďI know what I see,Ē said Cunningham.

Well, weíve heard it all before. Word for word. It was 2005, and Cunningham once again told the Kansas City Star how close his defense was, how great everything was going to be.

ďI'm not talking good,Ē Cunningham said. ďI'm talking great. Like the old days. I guess I'm the only guy who sees it. But we're an inch away. I can see it. I've been doing this too long.Ē

ďI know what I see.Ē

Apparently, on that day in 2005, Cunningham saw Kendrell Bell, Eric Hicks, Sammy Knight, Eric Warfield, Ryan Sims, Lional Dalton and Greg Wesley, and believed they would one day be part of a great defense. Instead, they wound up 25th.

milkman
11-25-2008, 09:52 PM
Chiefs hadnít wasted their time on scabs like Dexter McCleon, Jason Belser, Derrick Ransom and Vonnie Holliday.

In this list of scabs is another player who illustrates the incompetence of Cunther.

Vonnie Holliday was a solid player before he came to KC, and has been productive since he left.

The only point in his career that was defined by suckage was the time he spent in KC.

Yes, there's been a lot of bad players, but there have been enough that have been productive elsewhere to present solid evidence that this staff sucks.

luv
11-25-2008, 09:56 PM
In this list of scabs is another player who illustrates the incompetence of Cunther.

Vonnie Holliday was a solid player before he came to KC, and has been productive since he left.

The only point in his career that was defined by suckage was the time he spent in KC.

Yes, there's been a lot of bad players, but there have been enough that have been productive elsewhere to present solid evidence that this staff sucks.

Just what I was thinking as I started reading your post.

Brock
11-25-2008, 10:00 PM
Yeah, gun. Just keep holding your breath and hoping you'll get another once in a decade player like DT that will make you look competent.

Short Leash Hootie
11-25-2008, 10:08 PM
Claythan usually turns in some good stuff over at WPI, he definitely has some potential with his writing...it's everyone else over there that gives him a bad name, sadly.

If Claythy went to school and got a degree I could see him getting a job somewhere if everything lined up into place.

chagrin
11-25-2008, 10:13 PM
What happened this time?

Baconeater
11-25-2008, 10:17 PM
What happened this time?

:shrug: Typical Claythan stuff.

tk13
11-25-2008, 10:17 PM
In this list of scabs is another player who illustrates the incompetence of Cunther.

Vonnie Holliday was a solid player before he came to KC, and has been productive since he left.

The only point in his career that was defined by suckage was the time he spent in KC.

Yes, there's been a lot of bad players, but there have been enough that have been productive elsewhere to present solid evidence that this staff sucks.
You could say that about several players, coaches, assistant coaches, etc. It's kind of amazing. Guys who have great track records, playoff wins, Super Bowl appearances, etc... can't do anything in KC.

luv
11-25-2008, 10:17 PM
What happened this time?

I don't know. It was a two day ban, but now it's four months. I'm glad he found someone else to post stuff for him though. I like some of the stuff, and the responses are funny, but I get enough shit for my own posts.

milkman
11-25-2008, 10:18 PM
Yeah, gun. Just keep holding your breath and hoping you'll get another once in a decade player like DT that will make you look competent.

The interesting thing about DT is that, while never a great run defender, he still always seemed to be around the ball even in run plays before Cunther showed up.

While still putting up a solid sack numbers, his tackle numbers decreased substantially after Cunther's arrival.

It's always been my contention that Cunther did more to contain DT than any opponent did.

BigRock
11-25-2008, 10:23 PM
In this list of scabs is another player who illustrates the incompetence of ****her.

Vonnie Holliday was a solid player before he came to KC, and has been productive since he left.

The only point in his career that was defined by suckage was the time he spent in KC.

Yes, there's been a lot of bad players, but there have been enough that have been productive elsewhere to present solid evidence that this staff sucks.

Not that your point isn't valid, but Vonnie and Gunther were only in KC for one year together. And Vonnie was injured most of that year.

milkman
11-25-2008, 10:26 PM
Not that your point isn't valid, but Vonnie and Gunther were only in KC for one year together. And Vonnie was injured most of that year.

My point may be valid (actually it is), in this particular case, I'm clearly wrong.

Skip Towne
11-25-2008, 10:28 PM
Claythan usually turns in some good stuff over at WPI, he definitely has some potential with his writing...it's everyone else over there that gives him a bad name, sadly.

If Claythy went to school and got a degree I could see him getting a job somewhere if everything lined up into place.

He's too lazy to actually work. And he tried school and bombed out. I doubt he could run the french fryer.

dallaschiefsfan
11-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Gunther probably was the product of great players working under his reign in the late 90's. However, part of me just thinks Gunther doesn't have a "system" and pretty much worked off of what was working in the 90's and simply hasn't been able to adjust since...

I always preferred the 3-4 of the Cowher defenses in KC...but we don't really have the personnel for that.

Phobia
11-25-2008, 10:42 PM
What happened this time?

He's a racist piece of crap. This time he dropped an n-bomb.

Rain Man
11-26-2008, 12:02 PM
Deja vu.

Repost.

Goapics1
11-26-2008, 12:03 PM
He's too lazy to actually work. And he tried school and bombed out. I doubt he could run the french fryer.

He flunked out of college?

Skip Towne
11-26-2008, 12:10 PM
He flunked out of college?

He went for awhile then quit. Don't know why.

Fish
11-26-2008, 12:14 PM
Pretty decent article.

But I can see a fundamental difference between the 2 Chiefs defenses being compared....

At the time did you think Eric Hicks and Dexter McCleon had room to improve and become decent players? Did you see any untapped potential on that defense?

Right now, do you think Turk McBride and Bernard Pollard have room to improve and become decent players? Do you see any untapped potential that could be brought out in this defense by better coaching?

I realize that "potential" shouldn't be used to excuse the present D's condition, but you have to admit that quite a few guys on the current D haven't reached their respective performance ceilings yet...

How many people would actually prefer the old D over the current D?

Donger
11-26-2008, 12:15 PM
He's a racist piece of crap. This time he dropped an n-bomb.

Nice.

Sure-Oz
11-26-2008, 12:22 PM
He went for awhile then quit. Don't know why.

Lifer in the parents basement, i would've kicked his ass out easily by now if he was my kid

Goapics1
11-26-2008, 12:23 PM
Lifer in the parents basement, i would've kicked his ass out easily by now if he was my kid

Wow! I thought it was just a joke that he lived in his mommy's basement and was a complete loser. Guess not.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-26-2008, 12:24 PM
I don't know. It was a two day ban, but now it's four months. I'm glad he found someone else to post stuff for him though. I like some of the stuff, and the responses are funny, but I get enough shit for my own posts.

Why the hell did he get banned for four fucking months? I know he got two days for the "gold toof dog n***a" comment.

Sure-Oz
11-26-2008, 12:25 PM
Why the hell did he get banned for four ****ing months?

4 months he might just go out and mingle with a female

chasedude
11-26-2008, 12:28 PM
4 months he might just go out and mingle with a female

Nah he's on here lurking/posting on one of his other alias somewhere.

luv
11-26-2008, 12:42 PM
Why the hell did he get banned for four ****ing months? I know he got two days for the "gold toof dog n***a" comment.

Don't know. He didn't post anything after his two days before finding out it was four months.

seclark
11-26-2008, 12:45 PM
Don't know. He didn't post anything after his two days before finding out it was four months.

thanks mods, for the early Christmas present.
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Buck
11-26-2008, 12:50 PM
I just think a mod is fucking with him....he'll be back in no time.

Frazod
11-26-2008, 12:52 PM
4 months he might just go out and mingle with a female

I've always had this sneaking hunch that he'll end up with Luv.

:evil:

seclark
11-26-2008, 12:52 PM
I just think a mod is ****ing with him....he'll be back in no time.

thanks mods for pissing on my Christmas present.
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Sure-Oz
11-26-2008, 12:57 PM
I've always had this sneaking hunch that he'll end up with Luv.

:evil:

Just get Luv plenty of Jager and a pair of balls for Claythan and it just might happen:evil:

MIAdragon
11-26-2008, 01:24 PM
He's a racist piece of crap. This time he dropped an n-bomb.

I dont think he's a racist, just a dumbass that desperately needs attention.

luv
11-26-2008, 01:43 PM
I've always had this sneaking hunch that he'll end up with Luv.

:evil:

I'm not big on Star Wars or Star Trek. It would never work.