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View Full Version : Chiefs Red Zone: A mulligan on the NFL draft


Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 07:16 AM
Heh,


This should get some interesting responses..

Flacco and Albert would have made one hell of a draft for the Chiefs.








http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/490


They say you don't really know how the NFL draft went until months after the final pick is made. The Chiefs ended their draft last April with some rare swagger around Arrowhead. Experts graded Kansas City's class among the best in the NFL.

Would they still?

If you count only the first round, which actually is the money round, perhaps the Chiefs' first picks were good but maybe not great. Much of that is because Glenn Dorsey hasn't made the noticeable impact some hoped he would, although we wrote in a blog last week that Dorsey's performance isn't all that unusual.

Branden Albert has been a very good player, and Chiefs coach Herm Edwards made a point last week that you hadn't heard much about Albert -- and that's a good thing, considering most offensive linemen become famous for mistakes.

Still, if you could know now about injuries and how those players turned out, how much different would the draft have been? Here's how I think the top 10 picks would've played out:

1. Miami Dolphins Reality: Jake Long, OT Mulligan: Ryan Clady, OT
Long has been good, but Clady has been the gem of this year's offensive line class.

2. St. Louis Rams Reality: Chris Long, DE Mulligan: Matt Forte, RB
Like Dorsey, Long hasn't had that immediate impact. By picking Forte, they could have avoided the Stephen Jackson holdout/injury debacles and moved forward with the now fashionable two-back system.

3. Atlanta Falcons Reality: Matt Ryan, QB Mulligan: Matt Ryan, QB
Ryan is the frontrunner for rookie of the year. He was a candidate to go tops overall in this make-believe world. This is one that reality got right.

4. Oakland Raiders Reality: Darren McFadden, RB Mulligan: Eddie Royal, WR
With Justin Fargas playing well for Oakland, the Raiders have bigger needs -- like giving last year's top pick (and future bust candidate) JaMarcus Russell a reliable target.

5. Kansas City Chiefs Reality: Glenn Dorsey, DT Mulligan: Joe Flacco, QB
The Chiefs lost their top two quarterbacks to season-ending injuries. We might never have heard the inspiring tale of Tyler Thigpen, but we also might not still be debating whether the Chiefs need to draft a quarterback, either.

6. New York Jets Reality: Vernon Gholston, DE Mulligan: OT Jake Long
Long might be a reach in the mulligan universe, but he'd be a good long-term investment for the Jets, and a solid short-term cushion for Brett Favre's blind side.

7. New Orleans Saints Reality: Sedrick Ellis, DT Mulligan: Jerod Mayo, LB
The Saints wanted Long here, but they'd be happy with this year's most dynamic defensive rookie.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars Reality: Derrick Harvey, DE Mulligan: Dustin Keller, TE
David Garrard would love to have a reliable target now. If the Jaguars had passed on Keller, they would have grabbed linebacker Curtis Lofton. When they didn't ...

9. Cincinnati Bengals Reality: Keith Rivers, LB Mulligan: Curtis Lofton, LB
After Rivers broke his jaw to end his season, this one is a no-brainer.

10. New England Patriots Reality: Jerod Mayo, LB Mulligan: Charles Godfrey, S
Rodney Harrison's injury changed things for the Patriots, more so than losing Tom Brady. New England needs a solid defensive back now, and Godfrey -- a third-round pick in reality -- would have been a perfect fit.


For the record, I debated on whether to have the Patriots take Brandon Flowers over Godfrey. Flowers has played like a first-round pick, even though he was a second. I think Branden Albert would have been taken about where he was in reality, somewhere around No. 15 overall. In fact, the Chiefs probably would have gone after him with that second first-round pick.

As for Dorsey, the way defensive tackles have been slow to develop this year makes him a bigger question. He'd probably still be, at worst, a top-20 pick because of his potential, but it's doubtful he'd have gone in the top 10 had scouts and executives known now what they didn't last April. The Chiefs loved Dorsey on draft day, but if there had been a quarterback available, there's no doubt that, knowing what they do now, they'd have passed on Dorsey and taken Flacco.

The Bad Guy
12-05-2008, 07:31 AM
What exactly do the Chiefs know about Dorsey that they didn't in April? That makes absolutely no sense.

morphius
12-05-2008, 07:51 AM
What exactly do the Chiefs know about Dorsey that they didn't in April? That makes absolutely no sense.
The whole idea is that some of the guys are not giving the immediate impact you sometimes hope from an early first rounder, so the guy switches out the player with someone who would have had an immediate impact on the team and filled a place of need.

RINGLEADER
12-05-2008, 07:52 AM
Dunno what they're referring to regarding Dorsey either.

If you look at the DT position, as the writer points out, they rarely make much of an impact right away. Too early to consider Dorsey a bust -- especially when there's a bunch of nobodies on the line who have no ability to pressure the passer. Get a new DC in there and a couple of real defensive ends and I think Dorsey will be fine.

Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 07:58 AM
- especially when there's a bunch of nobodies on the line who have no ability to pressure the passer.

All those guys were high round picks. Herman Edwards picks.

Dorsey hasnt even helped the run defense, let alone generated a pass rush.

CoMoChief
12-05-2008, 08:09 AM
All those guys were high round picks. Herman Edwards picks.

Dorsey hasnt even helped the run defense, let alone generated a pass rush.

Well to be fair, most guards that play in this league have been around for 6+ years, and it takes a bit of time for DTs to learn the trick of the trade.

Dorsey has incredible potential, and doesn't seem to be lazy last Ryan Sims or a Siavii, I'd wait another year before I make any kind if statement that relates him to being a bust or underachiever.

sedated
12-05-2008, 08:13 AM
its hilarious that Clady is now considered the best player in the draft, and everyone on chiefsplanet was shitting their pants at the thought of taking him in the top 10.

Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 08:15 AM
its hilarious that Clady is now considered the best player in the draft, and everyone on chiefsplanet was shitting their pants at the thought of taking him in the top 10.

Remember,

Matt Ryan wasnt good enough to play for the Chiefs either. ROFL

Demonpenz
12-05-2008, 08:20 AM
its hilarious that Clady is now considered the best player in the draft, and everyone on chiefsplanet was shitting their pants at the thought of taking him in the top 10.

People didn't want him at all. Some of them because they are stupid, but some of them smart enough to know that if we drafted clady, we would have him run one on one with no help, we would give him crappy coaching, and make him do things he isn't capible to do. With the broncos (I maybe wrong) they probably still have him cut people, cut back side, have him zone block and get to the second level, things that he is good at. We would have round pegged a square hole once again. If we would have had clady we would have had him try to road grate people. He would have failed and we would have had a free agent come in here and suck. Then 4 years lady he would play for colts or donco's and blossom.

Brock
12-05-2008, 08:41 AM
Would anyone -ANYONE- rather have Matt Forte than Chris Long?

Short Leash Hootie
12-05-2008, 08:45 AM
this is a really dumb thread...

Matt Forte #2? Uhm, he's no Chris Johnson for one.

Dustin Keller #8?

Sure...some of these guys are playing good football but they all have ceilings...and I don't think you take a Matt Forte #2 overall, regardless of how good he might be...because he's a running back. Short life span.

You only take the rare guys like AP that high.

OnTheWarpath58
12-05-2008, 09:41 AM
its hilarious that Clady is now considered the best player in the draft, and everyone on chiefsplanet was shitting their pants at the thought of taking him in the top 10.

Show me one other person who would say that Clady should have been the first overall pick, other than Kent fucking Babb.

raybec 4
12-05-2008, 09:55 AM
That entire article was fucking idiotic.

Pestilence
12-05-2008, 09:59 AM
This is dumb as all hell.

DaWolf
12-05-2008, 10:15 AM
This is why you don't judge a draft based on year 1.

I could understand this article if the Chiefs were a player away from being SB champs, but that ain't the case...

Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 10:19 AM
This is why you don't judge a draft based on year 1.




If we can judge guys like Albert, Clady, C Johnson and Forte for being instant impact players, why cant we judge guys like Dorsey for being invisible?

Brock
12-05-2008, 10:22 AM
If we can judge guys like Albert, Clady, C Johnson and Forte for being instant impact players, why cant we judge guys like Dorsey for being invisible?

Do you really not know why?

Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 10:23 AM
Do you really not know why?

No. i know why. Dorsey may turn out to be a stud, but right now at this very moment, hes been a disappointment in relation to expectations.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-05-2008, 10:26 AM
What a stupid fucking article.

TrickyNicky
12-05-2008, 10:27 AM
The only thing I agree with is that Flowers has played like he was a top 10 pick. He is great for where we got him.

Ebolapox
12-05-2008, 10:30 AM
I'm almost 100% sure that the guy who wrote this is a fucking retard.

Deberg_1990
12-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm almost 100% sure that the guy who wrote this is a ****ing retard.

I think its Babb's blog?

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Put Glen Dorsey on the Giants or Ravens and the guy has 5 sacks, minimum.

Put Matt Forte on the Giants or Saints and he's still Matt Forte.

This writer is a joke.

Ebolapox
12-05-2008, 10:36 AM
I think its Babb's blog?

give a group of chimps a room full of typewriters, and I'm almost 100% positive that they'd come up with something more relevant and less astoundingly dense than this crap.

chiefsngop
12-05-2008, 11:02 AM
Can't evaluate how you did in the draft till months after ? Well, when it comes to drafting 1st round D-lineman it's actually closer to seasons after. This has been well proven time & time again over the last few decades of NFL history and there is a multitude of statistics presented in this very forum that proves the point well.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Find your friendly local Houston Texans fan and ask them.

A point made in the thread starter was Albert and Flacco would've made a great 1st round. But if King Carl would've paid for Flacco last draft, we obviously wouldn't be drafting a QB this draft.

So......

the signing of a 1st round QB last draft, coupled with Thigpen's play in camp & PS would've certainly got Thiggy cut, and there also wouldn't have been reason to sign Quinn Gray. So yes, we'd have Flacco, but we'd also have Croyle and Huard as the only backups.

So here's the 2 hind-sight choices based off the thread starter. (IMO)

Albert & Dorsey with a '09 QB depth chart of :

*Solid QB from this year's draft
*Thigpen
*Big Quinn

(Thigpen may win the starting job, but competition is ALWAYS a good thing)

Albert & Flacco with a '09 QB depth chart of :

*Flacco
*Croyle
*Huard

Personally, I'll take option A. And let's not forget that this year's O-line probably would've got Flacco killed right after Croyle was murdered, or visa-versa.

chiefsngop
12-05-2008, 11:09 AM
No. i know why. Dorsey may turn out to be a stud, but right now at this very moment, hes been a disappointment in relation to expectations.

Who's expectations ? Uninformed fans ?

People who know football understand that it takes D-lineman a minimum of a full season to develop and usually 2 or 3 seasons.

Research your hall of fame D-lineman and check out their rookie stats, it will paint a clear picture.

Molitoth
12-05-2008, 12:52 PM
With different coaching and systems, some of these players might not have developed as well as they have...

This article is dumb.

DaneMcCloud
12-05-2008, 02:01 PM
A point made in the thread starter was Albert and Flacco would've made a great 1st round. But if King Carl would've paid for Flacco last draft, we obviously wouldn't be drafting a QB this draft.


Flacco was considered a second round pick by nearly every expert.

The Ravens shocked the football community by moving up into the first round and selecting him.

I can absolutely guarantee that Flacco would not be the same QB in KC as he is in Baltimore. Namely, defense and special teams, but offensive line as well.

He's a guy that went to the perfect place for him. That doesn't happen very often.

chiefsngop
12-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Flacco was considered a second round pick by nearly every expert.

The Ravens shocked the football community by moving up into the first round and selecting him.

I can absolutely guarantee that Flacco would not be the same QB in KC as he is in Baltimore. Namely, defense and special teams, but offensive line as well.

He's a guy that went to the perfect place for him. That doesn't happen very often.

Yeah, the point of my post was drafting Flacco would've been a poor choice.

Your piece quoting led to out-of-context point.

milkman
12-06-2008, 06:45 AM
Show me one other person who would say that Clady should have been the first overall pick, other than Kent ****ing Babb.

I actually liked Clady's athleticism, but he's not a guy that is going to ever be a road grader as a run blocker.

He's a perfect fit for what the Donkeys do.

In the end, I still really believe that Albert will be the best all around LT taken out of this draft.

He has the athleticism and "dancer's feet" to be an elite pass blocker, and the frame to add size and strength to be a mauler in run blocking.

milkman
12-06-2008, 06:47 AM
It's surprising that no one has pointed out the obvious.

Knowing what we know now, the Dolphins would be crazy to pass on Matt Ryan.

tmax63
12-06-2008, 07:02 AM
And we wonder why people here get impatient and jump to conclusions prematurely. When someone who gets paid to write about football and 'supposedly' knows something about it writes this kind of crap based on 3/4's of 1 season. Everyone's hindsight is 20/20.

suds79
12-06-2008, 07:36 AM
This article is retarded.

If teams had a chance to redo the draft it would of gone like this.

1st - Dolphins - Matt Ryan. You don't pass on franchise QBs.
2nd - Rams - Joe Flacco. You don't pass on franchise QBs.

Every other position is that far behind in importance.

Deberg_1990
12-06-2008, 07:38 AM
This article is retarded.

If teams had a chance to redo the draft it would of gone like this.

1st - Dolphins - Matt Ryan. You don't pass on franchise QBs.
2nd - Rams - Joe Flacco. You don't pass on franchise QBs.

Every other position is that far behind in importance.


Yes Sir.

JuicesFlowing
12-06-2008, 08:32 AM
I'm sure Baltimore has a better O-line than KC. How would Flacco do behind our line?

Kaylore
12-12-2008, 11:04 AM
I actually liked Clady's athleticism, but he's not a guy that is going to ever be a road grader as a run blocker.

That's hilarious. You must have missed the last game when your safeties saw him coming and started backing away. Clady's run blocking lately has jumped to a new level. Clady has better feet than Albert and greater dexterity than Long. He was widely considered the tackle with the most upside in the draft and the major concern was his competition faced and the mental errors. Clady is already getting all-pro mention and now that he's starting to own in the run game, he's looking at being one of the most dominant tackles in the NFL in the last ten years.