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bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:18 PM
Sign: Carlos Dansby MLB, Channing Crowder OLB, Philip Buchanon CB, Michael Huff FS if the faiders cut him...(he's no longer starting), Jordan Gross

DRAFT:
1) Brian Orakpo
2) Alex Mack
3) Kraig Urbik
4) BPA the rest of the way


STARTER
DEFENSE:
DL: Hali, Dorsey, Tyler, Orakpo
LB: Crowder, Dansby, Johnson
CB: Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Buchanon
SS: Polard (Morgan playing obvious passing situations)
FS: Page, Huff

OFFENSE:
OL: Albert, Waters, Mack, Urbik, Gross
TE: Gonzo, Cottam
WR: Bowe, Bradley, Franklin
RB: Johnson, Charles
FB: Cox
QB: Thigpen ( I went to coastal for two years and saw him play a good bit, never thought he would be a chief though)

This looks like a very competitive squad to me...ANY THOUGHTS???

dorseybowe
12-05-2008, 05:21 PM
I'll take that. :D

ChiefsCountry
12-05-2008, 05:28 PM
I'll pass on that. The draft isnt bad the FA signings are blah.

Micjones
12-05-2008, 05:28 PM
I'll pass on Jordan Gross and Buchanon.

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Jordan Gross has been a road grader all the way through his career from day 1. Dansby is only getting better and Crowder is a very capable OLB in my opinion. Just my 2 cents though.

ChiefsCountry
12-05-2008, 05:32 PM
Jordan Gross is going to want left tackle money to play right tackle. Stupid.

Micjones
12-05-2008, 05:32 PM
Jordan Gross has been a road grader all the way through his career from day 1. Dansby is only getting better and Crowder is a very capable OLB in my opinion. Just my 2 cents though.

Gross is gonna want so much jack.

DaKCMan AP
12-05-2008, 05:33 PM
Don't really like any of the FA signings.

Tribal Warfare
12-05-2008, 05:34 PM
I wouldn't look pass Peppers either with cap room KC has.

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Who do ya'll think we should go after in FA than? We're gonna need some bodies. I would take Vilma as well at MLB, but i believe the saints will not let him go. If Gross wants that kind of money i would not want to sign him either, but either way we need a RT.

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2008, 05:36 PM
i said to sign karlos dansby myself, but some have said he couldnt play mlb effectively

Micjones
12-05-2008, 05:36 PM
I'd take Dansby. We'll have Demorrio Williams still and won't need two FA OLB signings.
I'll pass on Huff too...

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:37 PM
I dont think Williams will ever be more than a situational pass rusher. Crowder is a beast.

The Bad Guy
12-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Here's who I want in FA:

Terrell Suggs to play RDE.

You can find an RT in the draft. They are a dime a dozen.

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Who do ya'll think we should go after in FA than? We're gonna need some bodies. I would take Vilma as well at MLB, but i believe the saints will not let him go. If Gross wants that kind of money i would not want to sign him either, but either way we need a RT.

if the saints resign him they owe NY another 2nd rd pick this year, they traded their 2nd to NYG for shockey sooo..... how could they pull that off?

Micjones
12-05-2008, 05:37 PM
i said to sign karlos dansby myself, but some have said he couldnt play mlb effectively

Yeah, he doesn't fill real well...

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2008, 05:38 PM
Here's who I want in FA:

Terrell Suggs to play RDE.

You can find an RT in the draft. They are a dime a dozen.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS i would be ALL over that

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:39 PM
Well thats something i was not aware of. I would take either one of them...whoever we can sign i guess. Id take Alex Boone, or Phil Loadholt in the 3rd if they were there to fill the RT void.

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 05:41 PM
If we get Suggs in FA than replace Orakpo with Curry in the draft and I'd be just as happy.

LB: Curry, Vilma, Johnson ??? I like that too

Pestilence
12-05-2008, 05:45 PM
if the saints resign him they owe NY another 2nd rd pick this year, they traded their 2nd to NYG for shockey sooo..... how could they pull that off?

I heard somewhere that it would be bumped up to their 1st round pick.

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2008, 05:48 PM
I heard somewhere that it would be bumped up to their 1st round pick.

someone HERE said that they should just give up their 1st, but do the saints think he is worth ANOTHER pick?(and their pick will probably be top half esp. if the suspensions go through)

Pestilence
12-05-2008, 05:50 PM
Sign: Terrell Suggs DE, Channing Crowder OLB,

DRAFT:
1) Rey Maulauaga
2) Alex Mack
3) Derrick Williams
4) BPA the rest of the way


STARTER
DEFENSE:
DL: Hali, Dorsey, Tyler, Suggs
LB: Crowder, Maulauga, Johnson
CB: Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Anybody
SS: Morgan, Pollard
FS: Page, Anybody

OFFENSE:
OL: Albert, Waters, Mack, Niswanger, Anybody
TE: Gonzo, Cottam
WR: Bowe, Bradley, Franklin, Williams
RB: Johnson, Charles, Smith
FB: Cox
QB: Thigpen, Gray, Croyle



Fixed it for you

JASONSAUTO
12-05-2008, 05:52 PM
looks good to me pestilenceaf23

bigdreams1
12-05-2008, 06:05 PM
I think i would take Curry over Ray still. I dont know if Ray has the coverage skills to play in the cover 2. I also think we need to take Loaholt or Boone in the 3rd. Than a guard in the 4th.

DaKCMan AP
12-05-2008, 06:11 PM
I don't see Miami NOT resigning Crowder.

milkman
12-06-2008, 05:49 AM
I think i would take Curry over Ray still. I dont know if Ray has the coverage skills to play in the cover 2. I also think we need to take Loaholt or Boone in the 3rd. Than a guard in the 4th.

I don't like either of those tackles.

I doubt either will be more than scrubs in the NFL.

Pass.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 09:42 AM
Here's who I want in FA:

Terrell Suggs to play RDE.

You can find an RT in the draft. They are a dime a dozen.

I haven't paid a ton of attention to Suggs, but isn't he a 3-4 DE who plays a lot of downs with his hands off the ground? Would he work well in a 4-3? If so, it would a great pick-up.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Free agency:
-Pay a shitload of money to bring in Julius Peppers
-Bring in Karlos Dansby - OLB
-Bring in Marc Colombo - RT
-Potentially consider Matt Cassell - QB

Draft:
-Trade down for an additional 2nd round pick. Take Rey Maualuga.
-2nd round pick #1 - Draft Alex Mack, and now move Rudi Niswanger to guard
-2nd round pick #2 - Draft Derrick Williams, WR/KR -- would make a solid slot receiver and a much more dangerous returner than Kevin Robinson
-3rd round pick - Crapshoot

Colombo and Peppers are stopgaps. You need to draft a RT and a DE (maybe 2) to find a player who might have future potential. DE especially, because that's a position where backup players can get a ton of reps in a rotational role. That is, after all, how Jared Allen became a starter for the Chiefs--he was a rotational backup who was so successful that even Vermeil found a spot for him on the starting roster. You need to continue to add depth to your receiver corps, bring in a backup QB, and of course offensive line depth (though, I still believe that if you keep McIntosh as a backup LT, Adrian Jones as a backup Guard, Wade Smith as a backup center, and Herb Taylor as a backup RT, that's actually pretty decent depth. Our current starters would actually make pretty decent backups).

I don't think this team is that far away, personnel-wise. The great news is that the positions we most desperately need are positions we can shore up as late as the third round. LBs and right tackles and guards and centers and slot receivers can be had very late in the draft.

milkman
12-06-2008, 10:11 AM
Free agency:
-Pay a shitload of money to bring in Julius Peppers
-Bring in Karlos Dansby - OLB
-Bring in Marc Colombo - RT
-Potentially consider Matt Cassell - QB

I'm fairly non-committal on Dansby, but no thanks to Peppers, Colombo, and especially to Matt Cassell.

Draft:
-Trade down for an additional 2nd round pick. Take Rey Maualuga.
-2nd round pick #1 - Draft Alex Mack, and now move Rudi Niswanger to guard
-2nd round pick #2 - Draft Derrick Williams, WR/KR -- would make a solid slot receiver and a much more dangerous returner than Kevin Robinson
-3rd round pick - Crapshoot

How about we just go with the picks we have, rather than speculating on possible tradedown scenarios?

Orakpo in the first.
Mack in the second.
Dannell Ellerbe in the third.
Fenuki Tupou in the fourth.

Colombo and Peppers are stopgaps. You need to draft a RT and a DE (maybe 2) to find a player who might have future potential. DE especially, because that's a position where backup players can get a ton of reps in a rotational role. That is, after all, how Jared Allen became a starter for the Chiefs--he was a rotational backup who was so successful that even Vermeil found a spot for him on the starting roster. You need to continue to add depth to your receiver corps, bring in a backup QB, and of course offensive line depth (though, I still believe that if you keep McIntosh as a backup LT, Adrian Jones as a backup Guard, Wade Smith as a backup center, and Herb Taylor as a backup RT, that's actually pretty decent depth. Our current starters would actually make pretty decent backups).

I don't think this team is that far away, personnel-wise. The great news is that the positions we most desperately need are positions we can shore up as late as the third round. LBs and right tackles and guards and centers and slot receivers can be had very late in the draft.

Jared Allen found a spot because Vonnie Holiday was injured.
MacIntosh is useless. Period.

Molitoth
12-06-2008, 10:14 AM
Hali sucks.

BigChiefFan
12-06-2008, 10:14 AM
Tommie Harris, would make the most sense and he's still very young and an asskicker too boot. WTF? No mention of him?... and you all call yourselfs fans. LOL.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-06-2008, 10:15 AM
Alex Boone and Loadholt probably won't even be in the top 8 tackles when it comes to draft grades.

I'd definitely put them behind Oher, Monroe, A. Smith, J. Smith, Jamon Meredith, and Troy Kropog and that's being generous.


This Alex Mack obsession is getting Joe Staley-esque.

Tupou is going to be a good RT, I like milkman's idea there.

One guy we should keep our eye on, and I could see going around our second pick is Clint Sintim. He'd be an ideal 3-4 backer, but he's big enough to play end in a Tampa 2. The only thing I'd wonder about is if his frame could handle another 15 pounds, and if his arms are long enough.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 10:20 AM
Tommie Harris signed an extension with the Bears.

milkman
12-06-2008, 10:36 AM
Alex Boone and Loadholt probably won't even be in the top 8 tackles when it comes to draft grades.

I'd definitely put them behind Oher, Monroe, A. Smith, J. Smith, Jamon Meredith, and Troy Kropog and that's being generous.


This Alex Mack obsession is getting Joe Staley-esque.

Tupou is going to be a good RT, I like milkman's idea there.

One guy we should keep our eye on, and I could see going around our second pick is Clint Sintim. He'd be an ideal 3-4 backer, but he's big enough to play end in a Tampa 2. The only thing I'd wonder about is if his frame could handle another 15 pounds, and if his arms are long enough.

I get that about Mack, but the thing I like about him is that he plays with a mean steak, and one thing, other than talent, we are missing on this O-Line is attitude.

In my fantasy world, though, I would get Brandon Spikes in the second round.

chiefsngop
12-06-2008, 10:54 AM
Signing Peppers is an old Carl Peterson type move.

Old, previous injuries, just sign and hope we can miracle him back to his best days.

No thanks. But I'm cool with Suggs, different deal there.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 10:58 AM
McIntosh is as good of a backup LT as you'll find. He's not a quality starter, but you could do a lot worse if you're talking about a backup. The only reason I'd consider cutting him is his contract and that he might bitch about not playing. It also depends on whether Taylor can prove himself at another position. If he can't, then we can feel comfortable that Taylor is our backup LT of the future and cut McIntosh. He's not a good LT, but he's not a bad one either.

Colombo is one I'm iffy on. Cassell especially. But Peppers to me is a no-brainer. At best you have one of the top 5 DEs in the NFL. At worst, you have a solid rotational DE. What makes Peppers a no-brainer is that you can play him and still give a young, up-and-coming DE plenty of reps. Even when Holliday was healthy during October and November of 2004, the Chiefs were using Allen as a 3rd down rusher, and they were seeing really positive results from him. It was during that time when the fans were starting to shout for Allen to start. The fans finally got their wish when Holliday was injured toward the end of the season. But the fact that fans saw potential in Allen, even though he was a rotational back-up, again tells you that DE is one of the easiest positions to judge a back-up on. Even backup DEs see a lot of snaps and have a lot of chances to prove themselves and improve, even if they're not starters. The only knock on Peppers seems to be an unproductive year he had a year or two ago. Based on everything I've read, this was an extremely frustrating time for Peppers and he dealt with it like a professional--he didn't blame anyone else and he went out the next offseason and drastically changed his conditioning program. One season shouldn't discount his entire body of work.

So a Peppers signing is a no-brainer. The Chiefs have tons of cap space. You start him and groom another DE behind him. It's a good way to hedge on your risk, considering that it's a very difficult position to draft for. You can sign Peppers and still go after Orakpo. If Orakpo busts, then Peppers is a good enough safety seal. If Orakpo plays awesome, then you have a NY Giants situation, where you can never have too many good DEs. And if Orakpo is awesome, then all of a sudden, you have Peppers and Orakpo as your ends with Hali and McBride rotating in.

Peppers is miles ahead of Orakpo, even now knowing Orakpo is not in the NFL yet. Peppers is a rare triple-threat DE--he's outstanding against the run, an outstanding pass rusher, and very good in pass coverage. Given uncertainty, nobody knows if Orakpo will be good in any one of those three dimensions, and highly doubtful he'll be good in all 3.

I'm fairly non-committal on Dansby, but no thanks to Peppers, Colombo, and especially to Matt Cassell.



How about we just go with the picks we have, rather than speculating on possible tradedown scenarios?

Orakpo in the first.
Mack in the second.
Dannell Ellerbe in the third.
Fenuki Tupou in the fourth.



Jared Allen found a spot because Vonnie Holiday was injured.
MacIntosh is useless. Period.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 11:05 AM
What fucking planet do you live on? McIntosh is a terrible LT. He's bad in the run game, and he's flat footed in pass protection. You're not paying a backup LT the contract that he has.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 11:05 AM
Signing Peppers is an old Carl Peterson type move.

Old, previous injuries, just sign and hope we can miracle him back to his best days.

No thanks. But I'm cool with Suggs, different deal there.

Julius Peppers has 11 sacks this season. And in 7 seasons, he's only missed 6 games. And he's 28, in a league where DEs like Jason Taylor and Michael Strahan are starting to play extremely productively well into their 30's. So you're wrong: he's extremely productive now and is playing at a pro bowl level, he still has a few years left in his tank, and he's not injury-prone.

Meanwhile, Terrell Suggs is a Shawn Merriman/Demarcus Ware type 3-4 OLB/DE. Now, if you're suggesting that the Chiefs get Suggs and have Gun use him as the falcon that he used DT, then maybe. But that requires the Chiefs to completely uproot their current personnel and move to a 3-4, which I think is a really bad idea, and that means you are guaranteeing Gun's tenure in KC. Suggs is an awesome player, but he isn't worth the money he'll command unless you run a 3-4.

PhillyChiefFan
12-06-2008, 11:18 AM
Isn't Gross wanting LT money??

Not that we don't have it, but was just wondering.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 11:30 AM
What ****ing planet do you live on? McIntosh is a terrible LT. He's bad in the run game, and he's flat footed in pass protection. You're not paying a backup LT the contract that he has.

I already said that you might want to consider cutting McIntosh b/c of his contract, but when you have a gazillion dollars in cap money, what's the hurry? And also, I think Herb Taylor is a very good left tackle, so if the Chiefs can't find another place for him on the line, then he belongs as the Chiefs' backup LT. I've covered all these points already.

As for what ****ing planet do I live on? I live on a planet where McIntosh has started at LT for almost 10 years instead of being terrible as you claim. And two of the years were under Marty Schottenheimer, who apparently has a history of consistently playing terrible players. I live on a planet where McIntosh usually ranks around #15 among starting LTs in sacks allowed, including in 2006, when he only gave up 5.5 sacks. McIntosh is a horrible RT. He's not big enough to handle the bigger DEs that line up on that side. He's a top 15-20 starter at LT based on consistently ranking on that level in terms of sacks given up, which is not a guy I want starting, but is a guy I would feel very comfortable with backing Albert up if he fell to injury.
You have to build a roster of 53 players and especially at LT, where subpar play can get your QB killed, you can't afford to keep one LT as a starter and not have an insurance policy at backup.

It's starting to get annoying the way you cherry-pick my comments, call me a ****ing idiot and then provide a one-line argument that is usually purely opinion and usually has no facts/data/stats behind it, and then when I refute your point, you move on to another thread and call me a ****ing idiot there. I enjoy arguing, obviously, but blatantly ad hominem attacks are a different story. I know I'm not right all the time, but at least I try to back my claims up with facts rather than pure opinion.

Damion McIntosh is an average starter. But he's a good backup.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 11:36 AM
I already said that you might want to consider cutting McIntosh b/c of his contract, but when you have a gazillion dollars in cap money, what's the hurry? And also, I think Herb Taylor is a very good left tackle, so if the Chiefs can't find another place for him on the line, then he belongs as the Chiefs' backup LT. I've covered all these points already.

As for what ****ing planet do I live on? I live on a planet where McIntosh has started at LT for almost 10 years instead of being terrible as you claim. And two of the years were under Marty Schottenheimer, who apparently has a history of consistently playing terrible players. I live on a planet where McIntosh usually ranks around #15 among starting LTs in sacks allowed, including in 2006, when he only gave up 5.5 sacks. McIntosh is a horrible RT. He's not big enough to handle the bigger DEs that line up on that side. He's a top 15-20 starter at LT, which is not a guy I want starting, but is a guy I would feel very comfortable with backing Albert up if he fell to injury.
You have to build a roster of 53 players and especially at LT, where subpar play can get your QB killed, you can't afford to keep one LT as a starter and not have an insurance policy at backup.

It's starting to get annoying the way you cherry-pick my comments, call me a ****ing idiot and then provide a one-line argument that is usually purely opinion and usually has no facts/data/stats behind it, and then when I refute your point, you move on to another thread and call me a ****ing idiot there. I enjoy arguing, obviously, but blatantly ad hominem attacks are a different story. I know I'm not right all the time, but at least I try to back my claims up with facts rather than pure opinion.

So your defense is he's played in this league 10 years? He was a turnstile in San Diego. Miami made no effort to re-sign him. They knew what we do now. He's a very, very mediocre player who has been given contracts he doesn't deserve.

This team is NO better with Damion McIntosh on the roster.

You can get annoyed all you want. I don't give a shit. You are the one who defends mediocrity. I'll continue to call that out every chance I get.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 11:46 AM
My defense is that he has played at a top 15-20 level his entire career and can't be relied on to be an every-week starter because he can't stay healthy. If San Diego didn't like him, then why did Marty let him start for two years? And if Miami didn't like him, then why did he start for 3 years? He's not a terrible player. He's just not a great one, and not a guy you would be excited about as a starter. Again, you say he's a turnstile, but in terms of sacks allowed, he usually ranks around the middle. Not great, not bad. Average.

Like I said, he's a mediocre starter. And he's overpaid for his current contract. But you don't build a 53-man roster with 53 starters--that's impossible. You seem to think that every single player on this 53-man roster should be a top 10 player and if they're not, then they're useless. McIntosh shouldn't be a starter. But in terms of his ability to back up, he's probably one of the better backups in the NFL simply because he's a veteran with a ton of experieince and while he's not great, he's not going to be a major liability. That's a guy you can depend on if Albert gets injured and has to miss 3 or 4 games.

Again, I think Taylor's a better backup LT, but if you commit to him there then you take away a chance for him to contribute elsewhere on the line. If the Chiefs commit to Taylor as a backup LT, then cut McIntosh. Otherwise, it would be foolish to do so.

I defend mediocre players because I know you don't have to start to contribute. Building a team is about bringing in as much top-flight talent as you can and having enough average talent as depth to round out your 53-man roster.

So your defense is he's played in this league 10 years? He was a turnstile in San Diego. Miami made no effort to re-sign him. They knew what we do now. He's a very, very mediocre player who has been given contracts he doesn't deserve.

This team is NO better with Damion McIntosh on the roster.

You can get annoyed all you want. I don't give a shit. You are the one who defends mediocrity. I'll continue to call that out every chance I get.

RustShack
12-06-2008, 12:32 PM
I like Rey in the first and a DE in the second. I can't really see any good young free agents with names coming to KC as long as Carl is here. Also I doubt most of them even hit the open market.

chiefsngop
12-06-2008, 04:28 PM
Julius Peppers has 11 sacks this season. And in 7 seasons, he's only missed 6 games. And he's 28, in a league where DEs like Jason Taylor and Michael Strahan are starting to play extremely productively well into their 30's. So you're wrong: he's extremely productive now and is playing at a pro bowl level, he still has a few years left in his tank, and he's not injury-prone.

Meanwhile, Terrell Suggs is a Shawn Merriman/Demarcus Ware type 3-4 OLB/DE. Now, if you're suggesting that the Chiefs get Suggs and have Gun use him as the falcon that he used DT, then maybe. But that requires the Chiefs to completely uproot their current personnel and move to a 3-4, which I think is a really bad idea, and that means you are guaranteeing Gun's tenure in KC. Suggs is an awesome player, but he isn't worth the money he'll command unless you run a 3-4.

I'd be much more confident in a drafted DE's ability, or a 2nd contract FA's ability, than Peppers' at 32 years old. He's going to want, and probably get at least a 4 year contract and possibly a 5 year deal.

Looking at the "now" and not the "3-4 years from now" is exactly what landed Carl Peterson in this current position. Taylor and Straham's longevity is definetly the exception, and not the rule. (See Peppers' counterpart Mike Rucker)

Our front 7 is overdue and ripe for an offseason "uprooting" (as you put it) anyway. And while Gun is not going to take this D into a 3-4, having some extreme athleticism on the edge would make a world of difference.

OLB is already a need, and when you play in a division where you have:

Denver's counter running game,
a growing-up McFadden,
and LT coupled with Antonio Gates

a DE / OLB hybrid is an exceptionally good fit. The day is coming in this division, possibly just next year, where if you don't have the area between the tackles and the slot on complete lock-down, you're going to get bombed on.

DeezNutz
12-06-2008, 04:42 PM
You can find an RT in the draft. They are a dime a dozen.

Would have been nice to have found one last year.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 05:06 PM
Again, if you sign Julius Peppers, you can draft a young DE early and rotate him in on snaps. I think Orakpo has some potential, but I do NOT feel comfortable resting the entire future of our offensive line on a guy like Orakpo, who carries some question marks and is no guaranteed success in the NFL. And given that the Chiefs could stand to have two new starters on both sides of the line, in a best-case scenario, then you have Orakpo and Peppers lining up opposite of each other. Can you imagine a line that consists of Peppers-Dorsey-Tyler-Orakpo? And on that line, you can rotate Hali and McBride in as your depth players.

This is the exact opposite of what Carl Peterson would do. Peterson has a very limited history of bringing the best free agents into KC. He lowballs the guys he wants, and agents are sick of it. So instead, he goes after second-rate prospects like Bell and Barber and then overpays the hell out of them.

Peppers might be the best DE in football this season. He should have at least 2-3 years of gas in his tank, and very possible he can have up to 5-6. As the Giants have proved, you can NEVER have too much depth. And DE is a position where even your backups can get quality time. It's not like QB, where if you're on the bench, you never see the light of day.

Picking up Julius Peppers and drafting a young DE to eventually replace him would be exactly the same as the Giants starting Strahan and then drafting Kiwanuka and Tuck as his future replacement. Strahan gave 2-3 years of very productive years, and Tuck and Kiwanuka gave a few seasons of extremely valuable backup depth during that time. When Strahan retired, suddenly, the Giants had two premiere, NFL-ready pass rushers.

Pick up Peppers. Pay him a ton. Draft a young DE in the early rounds, maybe even the first round. If the young DE is awesome right away, start him in front of Hali. If he's a work-in-progress, start Peppers and Hali and rotate the young DE as much as you can.

The Chiefs can't 100% rely on the draft, especially at a position like DE where depth is a great thing to have.

I'd be much more confident in a drafted DE's ability, or a 2nd contract FA's ability, than Peppers' at 32 years old. He's going to want, and probably get at least a 4 year contract and possibly a 5 year deal.

Looking at the "now" and not the "3-4 years from now" is exactly what landed Carl Peterson in this current position. Taylor and Straham's longevity is definetly the exception, and not the rule. (See Peppers' counterpart Mike Rucker)

Our front 7 is overdue and ripe for an offseason "uprooting" (as you put it) anyway. And while Gun is not going to take this D into a 3-4, having some extreme athleticism on the edge would make a world of difference.

OLB is already a need, and when you play in a division where you have:

Denver's counter running game,
a growing-up McFadden,
and LT coupled with Antonio Gates

a DE / OLB hybrid is an exceptionally good fit. The day is coming in this division, possibly just next year, where if you don't have the area between the tackles and the slot on complete lock-down, you're going to get bombed on.

el borracho
12-06-2008, 05:41 PM
Perfect! Then, when Carl and Herm get fired, the new GM and new head coach get to choose their Quarterback instead of inheriting leftovers.

RustShack
12-06-2008, 09:35 PM
Would have been nice to have found one last year.

Keep doubting Barry Richardson!!!

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 09:51 PM
Ok Zilla.

Let me get this straight. We sign a guy like Peppers, who will probably command the contract Jared Allen received. Then you want to turn around and draft a guy like Orakpo and give him roughly 20 million in guarantees as well?

Holy fucking shit.

Ebolapox
12-06-2008, 09:54 PM
Ok Zilla.

Let me get this straight. We sign a guy like Peppers, who will probably command the contract Jared Allen received. Then you want to turn around and draft a guy like Orakpo and give him roughly 20 million in guarantees as well?

Holy fucking shit.

that is goddamned brilliant.

see also: 'why fans shouldn't be in charge of anything higher than a fucking madden franchise'

OnTheWarpath58
12-06-2008, 09:56 PM
that is goddamned brilliant.

see also: 'why fans shouldn't be in charge of anything higher than a ****ing madden franchise'

Hell, that's being generous.

You know how many posts I've seen from guys talking about how hard Head Coach 2009 is?

RustShack
12-06-2008, 09:59 PM
Ok Zilla.

Let me get this straight. We sign a guy like Peppers, who will probably command the contract Jared Allen received. Then you want to turn around and draft a guy like Orakpo and give him roughly 20 million in guarantees as well?

Holy fucking shit.

Or wouldn't mind signing Peppers then drafting a DE in the middle of the draft. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Johnston emerge as a good DE in a couple years whether its for us or not.

Ebolapox
12-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Hell, that's being generous.

You know how many posts I've seen from guys talking about how hard Head Coach 2009 is?

eh, it's not THAT difficult. I've won the last five super bowls. some of the settings are retarded, though, with the fucked up stats. fucking josh johnson was the mvp of the last 'year,' threw for literally seven FUCKING thousand yards and 66 TDs. yet my RB (leron james--he's awesome stat OVR wise) ran for only 1100 yards. at a whopping 2.1 yards per carry. with the best o-line in football (there's one guy on my o-line that is below 91 OVR).

but yeah, I agree. some of these fucking mouthbreathers make me worry about the future of humanity.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 10:50 PM
Ok Zilla.

Let me get this straight. We sign a guy like Peppers, who will probably command the contract Jared Allen received. Then you want to turn around and draft a guy like Orakpo and give him roughly 20 million in guarantees as well?

Holy ****ing shit.

I still think it's funny that you cherrypick my comments and then you come up with some ridiculous one-line argument that has no common sense attached to it whatsoever. I guess it's easy to respond to someone's posts with a "yeah, but you're an idiot" or "he sucks just because... I think he sucks." I have no idea why you've attached a bullseye to my posts.

Let me lay this out plain and simple:
-Peppers alone would be an enormous upgrade to our pass rush
-Orakpo alone would be either big upgrade to our pass rush (not nearly as much as Peppers, though), slight improvement to our pass rush, or no upgrade to our pass rush at all. As a rookie, we have no idea what to expect from him.
-Peppers and Orakpo together = if Orakpo ends up being better than Hali, would be a ginormous upgrade to our pass rush.

If Orakpo ends up starting at LDE instead of Hali and does so at a very high level, it's worth $20M in guarantees. If Peppers starts at RDE and plays at... well, Julius Peppers-like level, than it's worth Jared Allen money.

It's funny that you don't think Orakpo and Peppers as our DEs would be better than Orakpo and Hali as our DEs. In case you haven't noticed, teams start 2 DEs, not one. And none of our current DEs have proven that they're good enough to start right now. That means that it would be a huge benefit for us to bring in 2.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 10:53 PM
Or wouldn't mind signing Peppers then drafting a DE in the middle of the draft. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Johnston emerge as a good DE in a couple years whether its for us or not.

But that means that we have to start Hali on the other end.

I don't know that Orakpo is our best option. I personally would like to trade down and take Maualuga instead. But if we assume we can't trade down, then Orakpo is probably our best option.

And if Orakpo ends up being very good, he still has to line up opposite Tamba Hali, who has proven to be a depth DE at best. I think Hali would be fine as a rotational DE, but he doesn't belong as our starter.

If Orakpo is graded as a top 5 pick in the draft, can you imagine a defensive line that includes Peppers-Dorsey-Tyler-Orakpo?

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 11:18 PM
I still think it's funny that you cherrypick my comments and then you come up with some ridiculous one-line argument that has no common sense attached to it whatsoever. I guess it's easy to respond to someone's posts with a "yeah, but you're an idiot" or "he sucks just because... I think he sucks." I have no idea why you've attached a bullseye to my posts.

Let me lay this out plain and simple:
-Peppers alone would be an enormous upgrade to our pass rush
-Orakpo alone would be either big upgrade to our pass rush (not nearly as much as Peppers, though), slight improvement to our pass rush, or no upgrade to our pass rush at all. As a rookie, we have no idea what to expect from him.
-Peppers and Orakpo together = if Orakpo ends up being better than Hali, would be a ginormous upgrade to our pass rush.

If Orakpo ends up starting at LDE instead of Hali and does so at a very high level, it's worth $20M in guarantees. If Peppers starts at RDE and plays at... well, Julius Peppers-like level, than it's worth Jared Allen money.

It's funny that you don't think Orakpo and Peppers as our DEs would be better than Orakpo and Hali as our DEs. In case you haven't noticed, teams start 2 DEs, not one. And none of our current DEs have proven that they're good enough to start right now. That means that it would be a huge benefit for us to bring in 2.

I really don't have to point out how stupid you are. You take care of that for me.

Why am I not shocked that you didn't catch the point of my post?

Where did I say anything about Hali being any good? I think Hali sucks, but Peppers is a stud player. I'm aware teams start 2 DEs, retard.

I'm also aware that there's absolutely no chance the Chiefs will be tying up 40 million in guaranteed dollars to the defensive end position, which was the point of my post.

There is no scenario where it's a good idea to invest that kind of money into the defensive end position when this team has NUMEROUS other holes to fill.

You can keep living your pipedream that this team would sign someone like Peppers, AND THEN USE THE #1 on a DE and tie up all that cash.

I'll live in the reality world.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 11:19 PM
But that means that we have to start Hali on the other end.

I don't know that Orakpo is our best option. I personally would like to trade down and take Maualuga instead. But if we assume we can't trade down, then Orakpo is probably our best option.

And if Orakpo ends up being very good, he still has to line up opposite Tamba Hali, who has proven to be a depth DE at best. I think Hali would be fine as a rotational DE, but he doesn't belong as our starter.

If Orakpo is graded as a top 5 pick in the draft, can you imagine a defensive line that includes Peppers-Dorsey-Tyler-Orakpo?

Hali was a serviceable defensive end when he had a stud playing on the other side.

Sign Peppers. I'm fine with that.

But you aren't tying up that kind of coin into the defensive line.

RustShack
12-06-2008, 11:21 PM
But that means that we have to start Hali on the other end.

I don't know that Orakpo is our best option. I personally would like to trade down and take Maualuga instead. But if we assume we can't trade down, then Orakpo is probably our best option.

And if Orakpo ends up being very good, he still has to line up opposite Tamba Hali, who has proven to be a depth DE at best. I think Hali would be fine as a rotational DE, but he doesn't belong as our starter.

If Orakpo is graded as a top 5 pick in the draft, can you imagine a defensive line that includes Peppers-Dorsey-Tyler-Orakpo?

Why would that mean Hali has to be our RE? Peppers can play RE better than Hali can.

bigdreams1
12-07-2008, 12:01 AM
Sign Tuggs draft Curry...either way if hali is a bust were fucked

Pestilence
12-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Jesus......Peppers, Orakpo and Dorsey equals a shit ton of money for one defensive line.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:11 AM
Jesus......Peppers, Orakpo and Dorsey equals a shit ton of money for one defensive line.

You have any better suggestions on where you would spend that money? Because the Chiefs have a whole ton of it. Especially in a league where the cap keeps rising and most teams are not cap-strapped.

DaneMcCloud
12-07-2008, 01:21 AM
McIntosh is as good of a backup LT as you'll find.

Really?

REALLY?????????????

How about Herb Taylor? Are you implying that SacIntosh was better than Herb?

Your arguments and ideas are fucking ludicrous and unfounded. The Chiefs have NO fucking business signing ANYONE over the age of 26 and on their third or fourth contract.

I think you're Voyager.

I take that back. Even Voyager didn't post such stupid shit.

kcchiefsus
12-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Jesus......Peppers, Orakpo and Dorsey equals a shit ton of money for one defensive line.

Big fucking deal. We have the cap room to do it, and it's not our money. As long as it doesn't keep us from using money elsewhere then why the hell not?

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Hali was a serviceable defensive end when he had a stud playing on the other side.

Sign Peppers. I'm fine with that.

But you aren't tying up that kind of coin into the defensive line.

So your argument is that the Chiefs shouldn't draft Orakpo if they sign Peppers because they should be satisfied with Hali on the other side?

You don't pass up a draft pick in the top 5 because another player is playing on the opposite side of the line. Orakpo's upside is likely going to be a hell of a lot better than Hali's current potential. When you can upgrade that much with your draft pick, you do it.

Naturally, I'd prefer a trade down, but realize that's not always a viable option. If the Chiefs can't trade down and Orakpo is the best player on board after a solid combine, the Chiefs would be absolutely retarded to pass him up, whether they sign Peppers or not.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:26 AM
Read what I wrote. I directly said many times that Taylor is better than McIntosh.

Really?

REALLY?????????????

How about Herb Taylor? Are you implying that SacIntosh was better than Herb?

Your arguments and ideas are ****ing ludicrous and unfounded. The Chiefs have NO ****ing business signing ANYONE over the age of 26 and on their third or fourth contract.

I think you're Voyager.

I take that back. Even Voyager didn't post such stupid shit.

ChiefsCountry
12-07-2008, 01:30 AM
Lets trade down, another freaking brillant idea. Lets sign old players. Damn our fan base is dumb.

DaneMcCloud
12-07-2008, 01:33 AM
Damn our fan base is dumb.

Yeah, but they're slow

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:33 AM
Then your proposal is to suggest signing second-rate prospects or spending no money at all. That sounds like a great proposal. The new NFL has made the cap far more manageable. If a player is cut before the age of 26, there's usually a good reason for it. I like the idea of the Chiefs recycling scrap like Bradley, but there's only so far that you can take that game.

Really?

REALLY?????????????

How about Herb Taylor? Are you implying that SacIntosh was better than Herb?

Your arguments and ideas are ****ing ludicrous and unfounded. The Chiefs have NO ****ing business signing ANYONE over the age of 26 and on their third or fourth contract.

I think you're Voyager.

I take that back. Even Voyager didn't post such stupid shit.

KCrockaholic
12-07-2008, 01:34 AM
This isnt too bad. But we could do better. I like the thought of Brian Orakpo and Channing Crowder...how bout some WR's?

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:38 AM
Lets trade down, another freaking brillant idea. Lets sign old players. Damn our fan base is dumb.

Great idea. Let's spend money on a bunch of 25-year old rejects that another team doesn't want. If you're 25 and you're not being protected by your team, with the amount of cap space teams have, then there's usually a reason for that.

I can't believe that the argument is that we should sit on a bunch of money just because we're afraid to sign anyone over the age of 26. If not Peppers, who do you suggest? Because guys like Crowder would help the Chiefs, but they're not difference makers and they're not going to even put a slight dent into our cap.

ChiefsCountry
12-07-2008, 01:53 AM
There is only one player on the market that we should target and throw huge cash at and that is Suggs. He is 26. Fits what this team needs. The best teams in the league do not throw huge money at free agents they develop players - Giants, Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego. Those teams have 2 to 4 guys that come as free agents. The Giants only true big money free agent they had was Plaxico, who fit the mold when they signed him. Build through the draft, its the only proven way to win a championship.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 02:06 AM
Lets trade down, another freaking brillant idea. Lets sign old players. Damn our fan base is dumb.

Trading down is a really stupid strategy. Really, really stupid.

Here are two teams that do it consistently, and boy are they stupid:
Ravens:
2008 - Trade down, take Flacco at #18, get 3rd and 4th round pick (which was used to trade for Fabian Washington)
2006 - Trade down, take Haloti Ngata

Patriots:
2008 - Trade down, take Jerrod Mayo, get a 3rd round pick

The Texans traded down in 2008 and got Steve Slaton with the extra pick. The Falcons traded down in 2007--gave up Schaub and got the picks that landed them Jamaal Anderson and Justin Blalock, two key starters right now. In 2007, the Panthers traded down with the Jets and got Jon Beason (potential pro bowler) and starting center Ryan Kalil.

Do you really want me to go on? Or will you concede that trade-downs typically get very good value? I can agree that trade-downs are not always easy to pull off, but if you can get a good deal, then it's been a historically very good strategy for the team that trades out of their spot.

J Diddy
12-07-2008, 02:10 AM
Trading down is a really stupid strategy. Really, really stupid.

Here are two teams that do it consistently, and boy are they stupid:
Ravens:
2008 - Trade down, take Flacco at #18, get 3rd and 4th round pick (which was used to trade for Fabian Washington)
2006 - Trade down, take Haloti Ngata

Patriots:
2008 - Trade down, take Jerrod Mayo, get a 3rd round pick

The Texans traded down in 2008 and got Steve Slaton with the extra pick. The Falcons traded down in 2007--gave up Schaub and got the picks that landed them Jamaal Anderson and Justin Blalock, two key starters right now. In 2007, the Panthers traded down with the Jets and got Jon Beason (potential pro bowler) and starting center Ryan Kalil.

Do you really want me to go on? Or will you concede that trade-downs typically get very good value? I can agree that trade-downs are not always easy to pull off, but if you can get a good deal, then it's been a historically very good strategy for the team that trades out of their spot.

assuming a trade down is entirely different

it all depends if the team who is willing to do the trade up covets a player so much that they will pay well to get him

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 02:21 AM
assuming a trade down is entirely different

it all depends if the team who is willing to do the trade up covets a player so much that they will pay well to get him

I realize that a trade down depends on the ability to find a taker of the trade. But people here are suggesting it's outright stupid. And I'm just proving that trade downs have historically turned out pretty good for the team that traded out of their spot. If you have a few guys in mind that you'd really like to take a few spots down and you can pull off a trade that returns good value, you take it. Unless there's a can't miss prospect at a position you really need, like Dorsey falling to the Chiefs.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 02:32 AM
There is only one player on the market that we should target and throw huge cash at and that is Suggs. He is 26. Fits what this team needs. The best teams in the league do not throw huge money at free agents they develop players - Giants, Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego. Those teams have 2 to 4 guys that come as free agents. The Giants only true big money free agent they had was Plaxico, who fit the mold when they signed him. Build through the draft, its the only proven way to win a championship.

Suggs is a 3-4 LB/DE and there's no guarantee he would have any success in a 4-3. For the kind of money he would demand, that is easily a far greater gamble than going after a guy like Peppers, who is a pure 4-3 DE.

The teams you bring up are teams that have drafted extremely well for years and most have a strong track record of consistently drafting well. But to compare the Chiefs to teams that recently climbed out of a rebuild, the Falcons have John Abraham, Michael Turner, Milloy, Elam, and Eric Coleman, who are all playing terrific. The Dolphins brought in Joey Porter, Pennington, Fasano, Akin Ayodele, and Justin Smiley. The Bucs brought in Antonio Bryant, Jeff Faine, Jeff Garcia, Cato June, and Philip Buchanon.

I don't like the idea of blindly throwing our money around. But I also don't like the idea of sitting on top of this much money. Most teams build mostly through the draft, but have a balance of players they acquire in free agency. Relying exclusively on the draft and bargain basement free agents is risky business.

Short Leash Hootie
12-07-2008, 09:20 AM
Tommie Harris, would make the most sense and he's still very young and an asskicker too boot. WTF? No mention of him?... and you all call yourselfs fans. LOL.

he signed a huge extension and then berated Bears fans saying 'I didn't choose to be here, they drafted me...' But yeah, he's off the market.

Short Leash Hootie
12-07-2008, 09:22 AM
why the fuck are we arguing about Damion McIntosh?

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 09:23 AM
So your argument is that the Chiefs shouldn't draft Orakpo if they sign Peppers because they should be satisfied with Hali on the other side?

You don't pass up a draft pick in the top 5 because another player is playing on the opposite side of the line. Orakpo's upside is likely going to be a hell of a lot better than Hali's current potential. When you can upgrade that much with your draft pick, you do it.

Naturally, I'd prefer a trade down, but realize that's not always a viable option. If the Chiefs can't trade down and Orakpo is the best player on board after a solid combine, the Chiefs would be absolutely retarded to pass him up, whether they sign Peppers or not.

You really are fucking stupid. You might be the dumbest person ever to post on this board.

MY ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU DON'T TIE UP 43 MILLION IN GUARANTEES AT THE DEFENSIVE END POSITION. If you want Peppers, fine, but then don't think the Chiefs are drafting a DE with their first pick. They have needs at QB, LB, the complete right side of the line and at wide receiver.

Never, ever once did I say the Chiefs should be satisfied with Hali. If you draft a DE in the 3-5th rounds and want him to unplant Hali, fine. But paying that kind of money to ONE position is fucking moronic.

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 09:25 AM
Big ****ing deal. We have the cap room to do it, and it's not our money. As long as it doesn't keep us from using money elsewhere then why the hell not?

Locking up 40 million in guaranteed money will absolutely 100% prevent us from using that money elsewhere.

Do you really think Clark Hunt is going to spend 60 million dollars in guaranteed money to fix this team?

If yes, hold on while I laugh hysterically.

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 09:26 AM
Read what I wrote. I directly said many times that Taylor is better than McIntosh.

If you think Taylor is better than McIntosh, then what exactly is the reason to keep him around next year?

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 10:04 AM
If you think Taylor is better than McIntosh, then what exactly is the reason to keep him around next year?

I told you. If the Chiefs want to move Taylor over to the right side to play somewhere else, then they could use a backup left tackle. If Taylor is starting at right tackle, then who do you put in if Albert gets injured? Even if the Chiefs commit to using Taylor as a backup on the right side, moving him to the left side in a pinch would confuse the hell out of him. Playing right and left tackle are completely different things. It requires a completely different use of hand placement, etc....

If the Chiefs commit to putting Taylor at LT, then there is no use for McIntosh and he should be cut. If they want to use him elsewhere, than McIntosh is a decent backup. I can guarantee that when he's cut, he's quickly swooped up, likely by a team looking for depth on their o-line.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 10:37 AM
I absolutely love how you begin every post talking about how mentally superior you are to everybody. And then you bring up points like: "we should pass up a DE in the draft because...
-we already have another DE on the other side of the line who's making a lot of money (perhaps the Colts are stupid for putting so much money at the WR position--they should have cut Reggie Wayne, because, y'know... they already had Marvin Harrison")
-"the Chiefs can only afford to have one stud DE on this roster."

Dude, just listen to yourself. The Chiefs now have an expensive DT and if they bring in Peppers, they would have an expensive DE. Your logic is, then, that all our problems would be solved on the defensive line if we sign Peppers. Because by your logic, the Chiefs shouldn't invest any more time or high draft picks on a DE and DT. Nevermind that neither Tyler and Hali have yet proven they can be playmaking starters.

If the Chiefs pick up Peppers and Brian Orakpo gets a top 5 grade, then you draft Orakpo. Period. YOU DON'T PASS PLAYERS UP IN THE DRAFT IF THEY ARE GOOD PLAYERS AND MUCH BETTER THAN THE STARTER THEY ARE REPLACING. PERIOD. Your suggestion is that the Chiefs pick up Peppers, the only players they should draft are QB, LB, Guard, Center, or Right Tackle.

Sorry if that statement makes me stupid. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a person on this board who would disagree with that point.

And by the way, LB, Guard, Center, and RT are positions that a) don't pay out huge contracts anyway; b) are rarely drafted in the top 5 anyway; c) can be had in rounds 2-5. It is a HELL of a lot easier to find a starting guard in rounds 2-5 than a DE.

Dude, you're a grown-up. Not in third grade. Argue the points. Don't act like you're 100 times smarter than everybody by name-calling.


You really are ****ing stupid. You might be the dumbest person ever to post on this board.

MY ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU DON'T TIE UP 43 MILLION IN GUARANTEES AT THE DEFENSIVE END POSITION. If you want Peppers, fine, but then don't think the Chiefs are drafting a DE with their first pick. They have needs at QB, LB, the complete right side of the line and at wide receiver.

Never, ever once did I say the Chiefs should be satisfied with Hali. If you draft a DE in the 3-5th rounds and want him to unplant Hali, fine. But paying that kind of money to ONE position is ****ing moronic.

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 10:44 AM
I absolutely love how you begin every post talking about how mentally superior you are to everybody.

Dude, you're a grown-up. Not in third grade. Argue the points. Don't act like you're 100 times smarter than everybody by name-calling.

It's obvious again that you are too stupid to even debate with. I will put you back on ignore because I'm done wasting minutes from my day responding to your nonsense.

Are you everybody? No, you're not. I don't feel I'm mentally superior to everyone. I feel I'm mentally superior to you. Hence the difference.

For the last, and final time. There is nothing wrong with having studs on the defensive line, but you aren't signing one for 20 some million in guarantees, and then turning around and spending a top 5 pick on another DE for 20+ millions in guarantees. It's common sense. It's really not that hard to figure out.

But somehow, you've managed to make this about how I think Tamba Hali is the answer, how we can only have one good DE on the roster, and not that this team has TOO MANY FUCKING HOLES to warrant spending that kind of money into the DEFENSIVE END POSITION.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 11:07 AM
I still can't understand why you continue to claim that LDE and RDE are the same position.

Does having an expensive #1 WR stop a team from drafting or signing an elite #2? NO. (See Indy and Arizona). Does having an expensive #1 CB stop a team from signing a big-time #2 CB? No. (See Baltimore). Does having an expensive LDE stop you from spending a lot of money on a RDE? No. (See the Giants and the Jets).

I'm not 100% behind the idea of drafting Orakpo if we sign Peppers. But sorry, you are suggesting a strategy of passing up a productive player in the top 5 only because we have a guy in a completely different position getting paid a lot of money. You say "because we have a lot of other needs." News flash. Even if we sign Peppers, as long as Hali/McBride our the starters at the other side at LDE, DE is STILL a need. And again, your argument is that we have a lot of other needs at positions that are rarely graded in the top 5 and are rarely awarded with big contracts.

It's obvious again that you are too stupid to even debate with. I will put you back on ignore because I'm done wasting minutes from my day responding to your nonsense.

Are you everybody? No, you're not. I don't feel I'm mentally superior to everyone. I feel I'm mentally superior to you. Hence the difference.

For the last, and final time. There is nothing wrong with having studs on the defensive line, but you aren't signing one for 20 some million in guarantees, and then turning around and spending a top 5 pick on another DE for 20+ millions in guarantees. It's common sense. It's really not that hard to figure out.

But somehow, you've managed to make this about how I think Tamba Hali is the answer, how we can only have one good DE on the roster, and not that this team has TOO MANY ****ING HOLES to warrant spending that kind of money into the DEFENSIVE END POSITION.

RustShack
12-07-2008, 01:21 PM
So let me get this straight... with our first draft pick, Orakpo is the ONLY player worth our pick?

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 01:32 PM
So let me get this straight... with our first draft pick, Orakpo is the ONLY player worth our pick?

No. As of right now, if Stafford off the board, there aren't a lot of guys that are great values at that pick for the Chiefs. I don't think Bradford should be a top 5 QB. The Chiefs don't need Oher or Albert Smith--at least, not with that high a pick. And Maualuga, Mays, and Laurinaitis would be huge reaches. The only other player that could be an option is Crabtree, but there's no guarantee he'll declare. I realize that the board will change a lot between now and April.

But I understand the confusion: my entire post is based on an assumption that Orakpo grades as a top 5 pick and that no other player will emerge as a top 5 pick between now and draft day. What I'm suggesting is that IF Orakpo is a player on the board and IF the Chiefs sign Julius Peppers, then salary is a bad reason to not draft him.

RustShack
12-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Most draft boards I have seen have Rey ranked higher than Orakpo... DE and LB are both big needs, and I think I would take the USC player over the Texas player... especially if we signed someone like Suggs. I think Babin can also be a good DE the more he plays it, and I'm also fairly confident that Johnston can become a very good DE in the future, he has so much raw talent... he just needs mentoring and coaching.

chiefzilla1501
12-07-2008, 03:14 PM
Most draft boards I have seen have Rey ranked higher than Orakpo... DE and LB are both big needs, and I think I would take the USC player over the Texas player... especially if we signed someone like Suggs. I think Babin can also be a good DE the more he plays it, and I'm also fairly confident that Johnston can become a very good DE in the future, he has so much raw talent... he just needs mentoring and coaching.

I hear ya. As I've said before, the guy I really want is Maualuga. I'm going on the hypothetical that Orakpo rates as a top 5 pick--on other threads, I've consistently questioned whether he is.

I don't want to rest my hopes on Johnston or Babin, but I agree that maybe Johnston has potential. Babin, I'm not sold on--I think McBride has more potential than him, if we're talking about a run-stopping DE. Here's the luxury of bringing in help at DE like Peppers or Orakpo. If Johnston plays awesome, he can still contribute. That's what happened in New York, where Kiwanuka and Tuck were backups to Strahan and Umenyiora for years, but they were still both extremely valuable to the team. In the NFL today, a lot of teams are rotating 3 or 4 DEs in. You can never have too many. It's not like QB where a backup doesn't see the light of day if he's not starting.

RINGLEADER
12-07-2008, 05:25 PM
Don't really like any of the FA signings.

Me neither. We need guys who have proven themselves year-in, year-out. And we need two of them (Hali is a bust IMO - he owes his stats to Jared Allen).