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Tribal Warfare
12-05-2008, 11:57 PM
Chiefs haven’t given up on struggling rookie Dorsey (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/924751.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Rookie Glenn Dorsey had another quiet game last week in Oakland, making three tackles in the Chiefs’ victory over the Raiders. That he was able to again do precious little to distinguish himself only deepened the link between Dorsey and Ryan Sims, who didn’t work out so well as the last defensive tackle the Chiefs drafted in the first round.

But even privately, where true feelings are usually laid bare, the Chiefs are emphatic this one will turn out differently.

“Don’t even make that comparison,” one Chiefs official said. “He’s not a Ryan Sims.”

Otherwise, the Chiefs are like many of their fans. They’re waiting for Dorsey to get some things done.

He hasn’t played to their expectations, which were huge. The Chiefs had Dorsey atop their draft board not just when they made their pick, but also before the draft started.

Dorsey has 40 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble, but it’s not about the stats for a defensive tackle. It’s about being disruptive to the opposing offense.

The Chiefs, like everyone else, have seen little of that from Dorsey. Still, they quietly believe the Pro Bowl potential is there and will be watching closely for signs of progress in the season’s final four games, beginning Sunday against the Broncos in Denver.

“I knew it wasn’t going to be easy,” Dorsey said. “You’ve got to watch a lot of film and do a lot of studying, and that’s what I’m doing. I’m not making a lot of tackles, but our linebackers are making a lot of tackles. That’s my job, to keep them free.

“The best thing is that I’m getting better every week. Every week I go in and see on film stuff that I did better than the week before. I also see stuff I need to work on. I feel like I’m heading in the right direction, though.”

Pro Football Weekly regularly ranks the NFL’s top rookies and, interestingly, has Dorsey in its top 20 this week. The only other Chiefs rookie listed is cornerback Brandon Flowers.

“You try not to get sidetracked by anything like that, by what people are saying, good stuff or bad stuff,” Dorsey said. “We’re already 2-10. Right now, I can’t afford to be listening to the outside stuff. I have so much to do every week. I’m just going to keep playing football and working hard and everything will fall into place.”

The Chiefs have the league’s worst pass rush, not just this season, but historically. They have only six sacks, which puts them on pace for the lowest total in NFL history.

They knew Dorsey wasn’t a finished product as a pass rusher when they drafted him. But they anticipated he would provide more pressure on the quarterback if not bigger sacks totals.

“He just wants to use power all the time,” coach Herm Edwards said. “You can’t do that. He’s got to have a change-up. He’s improved some, but he’s not there yet.”

The Chiefs are more encouraged by his run play. His 40 tackles lead their defensive linemen, though that statistic is not official and is compiled by coaches after film study, so it can be subjective at best and fiction at worst.

They would rather he get into the backfield to make things more difficult for opposing runners, but that hasn’t happened much.

“That’s a position that’s hard to get noticed,” veteran defensive lineman Ron Edwards said. “It’s just not really a fame position like end, where you get one on one a lot of the time. It’s difficult sometimes to see whether somebody’s doing a good job. Sometimes it’s a judgment on how a guy is doing. You don’t get the chance to make a lot of tackles. You don’t get the chance to make a lot of sacks.

“It takes some time, a couple of years to adjust to everything. He’s doing everything the coaches are asking him to do. He’s staying in his gap. He’s holding up against the double teams. It’s tough to separate yourself, especially for a young guy like that. It just isn’t realistic to think he’s going to have everything down so early in his career.”

Former NFL quarterback Steve Beuerlein was the CBS analyst for last week’s Chiefs win over Oakland. He will also be a part of the broadcast crew for Sunday’s game in Denver.

“He’s impressed a lot of people with his energy and his quickness,” Beuerlein said. “He’s not the biggest player in the world for his position, but he’s very strong at the point of attack. He does a good job of feeling the double teams, holding his ground and not getting moved out of there.

“He’ll be a guy that will eventually cause problems for an (opposing) offense. Right now, he’s still learning how to play the position. It’s a position where you don’t see a lot of guys coming out and making a big impact right away. Again, he’s a lot different than some of the other guys out there, the big 325-pound guys. Glenn is more compact and more explosive, quicker and faster. He’s not going to use his power the way a bigger guy can."

SNR
12-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Somehow, I"ll find the patience to wait on Dorsey. I can't see how I have any left after Ryan Sims, Eric Downing, Eddie Freeman, and Junior Saliva, but I'll dig deep.

Look at Albert Haynesworth. Sometimes it actually DOES take time for a player to learn DT like that.

chiefzilla1501
12-06-2008, 12:43 AM
I have a hard time understanding why Branden Albert doesn't get the respect that he deserves. Brandon Flowers belongs on the top 20 list, but how is Albert not there too? He plays one of the hardest positions in the NFL and has done it very well.

As for Dorsey... I think he's a high enough character guy that he knows what he has to do. I hope. I never thought Sims had the motivation to be as good as he could have been. Herm is right--Dorsey thinks he can bullrush everybody into the backfield. He entered the NFL with the knock on him that he had limited pass rush moves. He's going to have to get stronger in his lower body and he's going to have to learn some new moves. i think he has the work ethic to do it, so I'm not overly concerned.

Ari Chi3fs
12-06-2008, 12:47 AM
This is why you need to perform at this high level... the salaries are too high for rookies... it takes away some of the fire. Dunno if that is the case with Dorsey, but it's possible.

ZootedGranny
12-06-2008, 12:50 AM
Yeah, get it together Dorsey! Look at how much Krumrie is coaching up the rest of the line!

Demonpenz
12-06-2008, 12:55 AM
a big fat guy taking on OL free up linebackers isn't what we need. We need a playmaker

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 12:56 AM
Krumrie's head should at least roll for this NFL record sack total.

The Chiefs have to get a premiere defensive end this off-season. There are some available and they need to pounce on one of them the first day.

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 12:57 AM
a big fat guy taking on OL free up linebackers isn't what we need. We need a playmaker

Further proof that Herm and Gun are so full of shit.

They said they were going to turn Dorsey loose when he was drafted. Fast forward 7 months and all he's doing is taking on double teams.

theultimatekcchiefsfan
12-06-2008, 01:23 AM
[B][SIZE="5"]

Former NFL quarterback Steve Beuerlein was the CBS analyst for last week’s Chiefs win over Oakland. He will also be a part of the broadcast crew for Sunday’s game in Denver.


This is the same idiot who praised Jamarcus, and how much better he had gotten during the game last week.

booger
12-06-2008, 01:35 AM
Their playing Dorsey in a similar role to what he played in college as more of a NT. At LSU it was a 2gap though and here it is 1 gap responsibilities.

So he's playing the 2technique at RDT with Tank playing the 3tech over at LDT.(more of the disrupter role they said Dorsey would play when they drafted him) Herm has said pretty much all season that Dorsey needs to develop counter moves and not rely on his bullrush. Plus Tyler had a good offseason, got in better shape and is playing pretty well.

Part of the problem is they don't just admit to that. That they havn't played him in the role they envisioned when they picked him. He does get to practice everyday against Waters though which is a good thing in the long run.

Another big problem to me is DLine rotation. It doesn't help that Gun moved Boone to DE either. Early in the season it seemed that Ron Edwards(or Boone or T.J. Jackson) wasn't getting many snaps in place of Dorsey on run downs. Even know it seems Dorsey is getting taken out on 3rd downs or pass rush situations. I'd like to see them let him play some 3tech at least on passing downs so he could get some experience there.

Just another problem with Gun. He was hellbent on the idea of Boone at LDE and Edwards or Tyler at LDT and how good that would be against the run. With the piss poor play of the ends (except from McBride who persued and did a good job on the bootlegs) early in the season, and the overall failure this year of the LB core, it's hard to find anything good Gun has done with the front 7.

It's also kinda interesting with DJ's move to MLB.....It's not a Gunther type move. He has said in the offseason that DJ at MLB was not an option and basically a joke in his opinion. Now it is actually happening. So that's a good thing IMO.

Ebolapox
12-06-2008, 01:45 AM
a bit of patience would be nice.

BigRock
12-06-2008, 02:04 AM
Further proof that Herm and Gun are so full of shit.

They said they were going to turn Dorsey loose when he was drafted. Fast forward 7 months and all he's doing is taking on double teams.

Seven months ago they didn't think the LBs would completely suck ass.

Mizzou_8541
12-06-2008, 02:05 AM
Seven months ago they didn't think the LBs would completely suck ass.

Seven months ago they didn't think YOU would completely suck ass......wait, what?

aturnis
12-06-2008, 02:32 AM
Seven months ago they didn't think YOU would completely suck ass......wait, what?

HA! Burn!

BigRock
12-06-2008, 02:38 AM
Seven months ago they didn't think YOU would completely suck ass......wait, what?

I'm sure they were aware.

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2008, 03:19 AM
I'd like someone to explain to me how a college player could be evaluated as the best prospect in the entire NFL Draft to 12 games later, a bust.

Especially when that player goes to one of the worst teams in the league.

Babb should receive death by Oogoo.

But before that, Oogoo.

veist
12-06-2008, 03:44 AM
I don't think anyone realistically thinks Dorsey is a bust. I think a lot of people realize that DT isn't a position where many of these guys are going to come in and blow people up their rookie year. There just isn't the level of consistent talent that they play against in CFB for them to be really prepared to do that. Between all that and the well known fact that he needed to develop more moves his play this year is pretty much exactly what people should have been expecting

Demonpenz
12-06-2008, 03:55 AM
hopefully like the offensive lineman he is playing against, he understands this is his job and he gets caught up with his weight training, diet, flexibility all that. Players like fanica have been through this shit a million times. I think he will catch on eventually.

the Talking Can
12-06-2008, 05:52 AM
That he was able to again do precious little to distinguish himself only deepened the link between Dorsey and Ryan Sims, who didn’t work out so well as the last defensive tackle the Chiefs drafted in the first round.

uh, Ryan Sims had 74 tackles in 5 years as a Chief

Dorsey has 32 in 12 games per nfl.com

turn down the drama

Dayze
12-06-2008, 06:57 AM
uh, Ryan Sims had 74 tackles in 5 years as a Chief

Dorsey has 32 in 12 games per nfl.com

turn down the drama

exactly; and I think he finished his final season with 13...


13! friggin' tackles.

This article is terrible; ....yet they have jobs and keep churning out this sh*t.

bishop_74
12-06-2008, 07:35 AM
Also, Dorsey didn't show up to camp out of Shape. He is driven... Simms was jelly.

Dayze
12-06-2008, 07:43 AM
and the title of the article is retarded.

It implies that the Chiefs had considered 'giving up' on Dorsey already . lol. JFC.
Why does Teicher have a job. he's a blubbering idiot on the radio, the rare times I actually listen to KC radio. Callers will call him out and he'll stutter, and dance around the question.

CupidStunt
12-06-2008, 07:51 AM
12 games. 12 fugging games. How's Amobi Okoye doing lately?

Let's review Dorsey in 2011.

Sure-Oz
12-06-2008, 08:34 AM
Get the kid some help too, and some REAL coaches

RedThat
12-06-2008, 08:47 AM
Dorsey has 40 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble, but it’s not about the stats for a defensive tackle. It’s about being disruptive to the opposing offense.

Did you hear that Chief fans? for those who put their attention towards stats for DT. Not always about the stats. Can't just use stats on the judgement and progress of a player.

suds79
12-06-2008, 08:47 AM
Get the kid some help too, and some REAL coaches

Absolutely. That most of all.

I also think that Glenn would benefit with having a true run stuffer next to him to eat up double teams considering he's a smaller DT. 6'1 297.

If you have a DT of that size on your line starting, fine. But the other DT better be 6'4 330+ IMO.

BigMeatballDave
12-06-2008, 09:06 AM
Did you hear that Chief fans? for those who put their attention towards stats for DT. Not always about the stats. Can't just use stats on the judgement and progress of a player.Yes, he's played 12 games. He's clearly a bust. Dumbass...

The Bad Guy
12-06-2008, 09:42 AM
Seven months ago they didn't think the LBs would completely suck ass.

That means nothing in this discussion. The LBs suck for a variety of reasons.

Tyler is more suited to take on double teams than Dorsey.

Chiefnj2
12-06-2008, 10:05 AM
If the excuse is that Dorsey needs more help than Herm and the staff should be fired immediately. They've used the majority of their 1st day picks on the DL. There is no excuse not to have "talent" on the DL.

RINGLEADER
12-06-2008, 11:42 AM
I have a hard time understanding why Branden Albert doesn't get the respect that he deserves. Brandon Flowers belongs on the top 20 list, but how is Albert not there too? He plays one of the hardest positions in the NFL and has done it very well.

As for Dorsey... I think he's a high enough character guy that he knows what he has to do. I hope. I never thought Sims had the motivation to be as good as he could have been. Herm is right--Dorsey thinks he can bullrush everybody into the backfield. He entered the NFL with the knock on him that he had limited pass rush moves. He's going to have to get stronger in his lower body and he's going to have to learn some new moves. i think he has the work ethic to do it, so I'm not overly concerned.


Agree 100% with the lack of love for Albert. He's been extremely effective in his rookie year.

Dorsey is doing fine IMO. It took Albert Haynesworth, the consensus great DT of the Titans, four seasons to break out (in fact Dorsey has eclipsed what Haynesworth did in his third year stats-wise). So give the guy time. And give him a couple defensive ends who actually know WTF they're doing.

chiefsngop
12-06-2008, 12:07 PM
I don't think anyone realistically thinks Dorsey is a bust. I think a lot of people realize that DT isn't a position where many of these guys are going to come in and blow people up their rookie year. There just isn't the level of consistent talent that they play against in CFB for them to be really prepared to do that. Between all that and the well known fact that he needed to develop more moves his play this year is pretty much exactly what people should have been expecting

Oh there's a handful around here who refuse to realize the obvious, that unfortunately, no matter how talented of a D-lineman a guy was in college, it's still going to take 2-3 seasons to develop in the NFL.

Brock
12-06-2008, 12:08 PM
It's good to know they have decided not to cut their rookie top 5 draft pick. Great news.

chiefsngop
12-06-2008, 12:10 PM
hopefully like the offensive lineman he is playing against, he understands this is his job and he gets caught up with his weight training, diet, flexibility all that. Players like fanica have been through this shit a million times. I think he will catch on eventually.

The guy came into camp very much in shape and as cut up as he's ever been in his career.

Weight training and strength is also not a problem with Dorsey. He's one of the strongest in the weight room on the team, one of his rookie problems is that he relies solely on that strength and bull rushing too much.

As far as diet, this is not Sims we're talking about here. Dorsey's marginally undersized for the position, and hasn't developed any bigger of a gut than he had in college.

StcChief
12-06-2008, 02:00 PM
a bit of patience would be nice.
name 2 things that can NOT be said in same sentence

Chiefsplanet patience :)

ChiefsCountry
12-06-2008, 02:15 PM
I think WPI is writing better stuff than the Star now.

SoCalBronco
12-06-2008, 02:24 PM
He's a great DT. There is a learning curve though, especially for DTs. It usually takes a couple years. It is extremely rare for a highly talented DT to be effective from the word go...perhaps only Ngata and Wilfork are the only ones I can think of in the last 5-6 years that came in and dominated from the start.

Dorsey is a huge talent and he's a great person and hard worker. He'll be a Pro Bowler, but it takes time. Chiefs fans should not give up on him.

B_Ambuehl
12-06-2008, 02:33 PM
So he's playing the 2technique at RDT with Tank playing the 3tech over at LDT.(more of the disrupter role they said Dorsey would play when they drafted him) Herm has said pretty much all season that Dorsey needs to develop counter moves and not rely on his bullrush. Plus Tyler had a good offseason, got in better shape and is playing pretty well.

It's nice to see someone else knows what's really going on here. The gap between Dorsey and Tank as a 3 technique will never be enough to justify drafting him #5. Ron Edwards is actually doing a better job than Dorsey at NT when he comes in as evidenced by the way the offense respects him with consistent double teams. We should've taken New Orleans offer of a 1st and 7th in '09 and traded down. That extra first rounder will be looking really nice this draft when we don't have it.

Ebolapox
12-06-2008, 02:35 PM
I think WPI is writing better stuff than the Star now.

I dunno. kent babb's last few blogs have been HORRISTUPIDable.

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2008, 03:34 PM
We should've taken New Orleans offer of a 1st and 7th in '09 and traded down. That extra first rounder will be looking really nice this draft when we don't have it.

That never happened

JASONSAUTO
12-06-2008, 03:36 PM
what never happened?

DaneMcCloud
12-06-2008, 03:50 PM
what never happened?

The "reported" New Orleans "offer" on draft day 2008.

JASONSAUTO
12-06-2008, 03:51 PM
The "reported" New Orleans "offer" on draft day 2008.

i knew that was what you meant, just started to bust your balls, then kinda changed my mind.

cabletech94
12-06-2008, 04:22 PM
The saddest part of the article is that Beurlein (sp?) is a commentator on Sunday's game. This is my frowny face. ^:

B_Ambuehl
12-07-2008, 12:51 AM
The offer from New Orleans did happen. It was even reported on the chiefs website. It wasn't for a 1st and 2nd, as Adam Schefter reported on NFL network just before the pick came in, but for a 1st and 7th.

DaneMcCloud
12-07-2008, 01:00 AM
The offer from New Orleans did happen. It was even reported on the chiefs website. It wasn't for a 1st and 2nd, as Adam Schefter reported on NFL network just before the pick came in, but for a 1st and 7th.

Okay, what team in the NFL is going to give up #5 overall for #10 and a 7th?

And you advocate that the Chiefs should have taken that deal?

You're a bigger dumbfuck than those at One Arrowhead Drive.

And that's a title that's difficult to earn.

milkman
12-07-2008, 01:19 AM
Okay, what team in the NFL is going to give up #5 overall for #10 and a 7th?

And you advocate that the Chiefs should have taken that deal?

You're a bigger dumb**** than those at One Arrowhead Drive.

And that's a title that's difficult to earn.

I can't say that there's anything you said here that even remotely resembles embellishment.

ChiefsCountry
12-07-2008, 01:27 AM
Okay, what team in the NFL is going to give up #5 overall for #10 and a 7th?

And you advocate that the Chiefs should have taken that deal?

You're a bigger dumb**** than those at One Arrowhead Drive.

And that's a title that's difficult to earn.

:clap:

BigRock
12-07-2008, 01:34 AM
I think two different stories are getting all discombobulated here.

Just before the Chiefs took Dorsey, Adam Schefter claimed the Saints were offering their 1st round pick (#10), their 2nd round pick, and their 1st round pick in 2009.

The Chiefs said fairly quickly that it wasn't true. And if it had been true, they probably would have taken it.

The actual offer was the Saints' 1st round pick (#10), their 7th round pick, and their 1st round pick in 2009. That extra first-round pick seemed to get lost in the translation somewhere. That's what B_Ambuehl is saying we should have taken. In other words, we'd have no Dorsey, but we'd have an extra first-round pick in 2009. (I disagree with that assessment.)

ChiefsCountry
12-07-2008, 01:59 AM
Chiefs would have pounced on another first for this year.

Short Leash Hootie
12-07-2008, 09:58 AM
well god damn I hope they haven't given up on our highest paid player after 12 games

InChiefsHell
12-07-2008, 10:28 AM
Dorsey needs to get some time with Dan Saleamua and\or Warren Sapp in the offseason to learn some technique...he's obviously not getting any from the coaching staff. When Herm says shit like "He can't rely on the bull rush, he needs to learn some technique..." my reply would be...


...well then TEACH HIM SOME!?!!?!


...what the hell... :spock:

Brock
12-07-2008, 11:22 AM
I think two different stories are getting all discombobulated here.

Just before the Chiefs took Dorsey, Adam Schefter claimed the Saints were offering their 1st round pick (#10), their 2nd round pick, and their 1st round pick in 2009.

The Chiefs said fairly quickly that it wasn't true. And if it had been true, they probably would have taken it.

The actual offer was the Saints' 1st round pick (#10), their 7th round pick, and their 1st round pick in 2009. That extra first-round pick seemed to get lost in the translation somewhere. That's what B_Ambuehl is saying we should have taken. In other words, we'd have no Dorsey, but we'd have an extra first-round pick in 2009. (I disagree with that assessment.)

With the benefit of hindsight, I suppose you would perhaps be swapping Dorsey for Ellis + a first round pick. Given where NO is at this year, it probably would have been a good deal, but again it's all hindsight.

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 11:26 AM
With the benefit of hindsight, I suppose you would perhaps be swapping Dorsey for Ellis + a first round pick. Given where NO is at this year, it probably would have been a good deal, but again it's all hindsight.

The Chiefs likely would have reached for Albert at 8.

Who knows who they would have taken at 17 then.

The Bad Guy
12-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Krumrie doesn't know how to teach technique. All he knows is that stupid slap and tickle bullshit.

Bowser
12-07-2008, 11:29 AM
It pleases me that the braintrust (and I use that word loosely) at Arrowhead has decided not to shitcan our top 5 pick after 12 games.

Cormac
12-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Haynesworth was a bust, too. And he was a problem off the field in his first season or 2. Dorsey will be fine. He's not the problem. I'll be shocked if we don't re-sign him for big money after his rookie deal.

BigChiefFan
12-07-2008, 12:00 PM
It pleases me that the braintrust (and I use that word loosely) at Arrowhead has decided not to shitcan our top 5 pick after 12 games.:clap:

Twenty years is ENOUGH. Make a change already. The coaches are NOT doing a good enough job-time to shitcan them.

Short Leash Hootie
12-07-2008, 12:02 PM
Haynesworth was a bust, too. And he was a problem off the field in his first season or 2. Dorsey will be fine. He's not the problem. I'll be shocked if we don't re-sign him for big money after his rookie deal.

or at least get a 1st and two 3rds out of him

Cormac
12-07-2008, 12:06 PM
or at least get a 1st and two 3rds out of him

Or that.

He's definitely not a Ryan Sims. Unless he spends the offseason in NY wearing furs and trying to get a record deal....and I bet he doesn't.

We have a few good players to build this D around: Dorsey, DJ, Flowers, Carr, hopefully a pair of safeties. Just give them a coaching staff. Maybe even Hali will be serviceable yet.