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R&GHomer
12-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Regardless of if Herm is still here "which I believe is highly unlikely". Who would you like to see as Gunther's replacement?

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 10:47 AM
Gunther stays forever. No ifs ands or buts

Gunther Cunningham is Kansas City Chiefs football.

And if you don't agree, Gunther will ****in let you know about it.

He eats thunder and craps lightning.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 10:50 AM
Shouldn't be too hard to replace the 32 defense.

R&GHomer
12-19-2008, 10:53 AM
Gunther stays forever. No Ifs ands or buts

Gunther Cunningham is Kansas City Chiefs football.

And if you don't agree, Gunther will ****in let you know about it.

He eats thunder and craps lightning.

LOL... That may be true, but no way is he here next year. Just no chance. A new coach will replace him and Herm would throw him under the planet.

King_Chief_Fan
12-19-2008, 10:54 AM
There appears to be about forty eleven people on this board who seem to know something about it....pick one.

MahiMike
12-19-2008, 10:54 AM
I always thought they shoulda kept DV as HC and brought Herm in as DC/assistant HC. Water under the bridge now...

So, just try and lure any of the top 5 DC's in the league now. But right now it's a moot point since Pioli or whoever will bring their guy in just like the rest of his new cabinet members.

Pestilence
12-19-2008, 10:57 AM
I always thought they shoulda kept DV as HC and brought Herm in as DC/assistant HC. Water under the bridge now...



Dear God....that would have been horrible.

MahiMike
12-19-2008, 10:59 AM
Dear God....that would have been horrible.

#1 offense in the league with a competent DC to at least make it to average on defense?

Yeah, thank God that didn't happen.

Pestilence
12-19-2008, 11:00 AM
#1 offense in the league with a competent DC to at least make it to average on defense?

Yeah, thank God that didn't happen.

Competent DC? Our defense has gotten worse over the years that he's been here. FFS people.

Plus DV would've traded all of our good draft picks for old veterans to play in his offense. And the people we did draft.....would've been sitting on the bench.

Sully
12-19-2008, 11:08 AM
Romeo Crennel
Mike Nolan

Brock
12-19-2008, 11:09 AM
#1 offense in the league with a competent DC to at least make it to average on defense?

Yeah, thank God that didn't happen.

Herm has never been a DC, so where you're getting the idea that he'd be good at it is a mystery.

blueballs
12-19-2008, 11:10 AM
The Travelocity Gnome

Frankie
12-19-2008, 11:10 AM
Dallas's current HC.

talastan
12-19-2008, 11:10 AM
Romeo Crennel - NO!!
Mike Nolan - Maybe.

HypnotizedMonkey
12-19-2008, 11:11 AM
fuck family fun night

Mr. Laz
12-19-2008, 11:12 AM
Herm has never been a DC, so where you're getting the idea that he'd be good at it is a mystery.

people assume since he played defense that he will be good at coaching defense.

he seems to have a knack for cornerbacks if he's time here is any indication.

Micjones
12-19-2008, 11:13 AM
How's about a young guy like Tampa's Raheem Morris?

the Talking Can
12-19-2008, 11:15 AM
look at what Gailey did with tablescraps

Herm has to fire Gunther...

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 11:19 AM
**** family fun night

You damn right. FUCK FAMILY FUN NIGHT.

angelo
12-19-2008, 11:20 AM
How's about a young guy like Tampa's Raheem Morris?

We have a winner or someone from the ravens, steelers, giants or eagles.

Ang

Fish
12-19-2008, 11:21 AM
Why don't you guys go to Arrowhead and tell it to his face?

You might mention Kendrell Bell while you're there....

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 11:22 AM
IS there any young and upcoming asst to eagles DC Jim Johnson?

smittysbar
12-19-2008, 11:23 AM
If Herm goes into next year as a lame duck coach, no one worth a shit will want to come work for a year and done. If Herm comes back, I bet it with all the same coaches. I don't see any way Herm is here though.

Skip Towne
12-19-2008, 11:23 AM
look at what Gailey did with tablescraps

Herm has to fire Gunther...

I hope he doesn't get the chance.

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 11:28 AM
Gunther stays, he hasn't been able to unleash the dogs yet.

Herm just doesn't let him.

blueballs
12-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Herm can't fire Gunther
Herm doesn't have the internet

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 11:32 AM
Herm can't fire Gunther
Herm doesn't know how to use the internet

FYP :D

blueballs
12-19-2008, 11:34 AM
FYP :D

even better

royr17
12-19-2008, 11:37 AM
Actually I do believe that the General Manager can fire whoever he wants whether its Gun or any other assistant coach as well as being able to fire the HC.

royr17
12-19-2008, 11:37 AM
Me I wouldnt mind having Romeo Crennel for DC. He's a good DC better than Gun.

the Talking Can
12-19-2008, 11:38 AM
I hope he doesn't get the chance.

me too...but i'm preparing to be disappointed

TRR
12-19-2008, 11:43 AM
I have no clue as to why some posters on here say that Herm will be gone. He has the backing of Clark Hunt, and has done a good job collecting young talent. I am of the opinion that Herm was in a no-win situation with the shit he took over, and is finally starting to get his own players in the mix. Why change now? I think it sets us back, especially when a new coach isn't going to want to stay with Gailey.

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 11:52 AM
Herm has never been a DC, so where you're getting the idea that he'd be good at it is a mystery.

He is bound to be good at something, that might be it.

Skip Towne
12-19-2008, 11:54 AM
He is bound to be good at something, that might be it.

He's good at under bus throwing.

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 11:54 AM
If Herm goes into next year as a lame duck coach, no one worth a shit will want to come work for a year and done. If Herm comes back, I bet it with all the same coaches. I don't see any way Herm is here though.

This is exactly the reason I think Herm is gone, it just wouldn't make sense with the rest of the pieces of the puzzle to keep him.

Claynus
12-19-2008, 11:54 AM
Haven't you heard? Gun is a legend. A Kansas City Icon.

THE GUN!!!!!!111one

Extra Point
12-19-2008, 11:58 AM
Fire the Gunn. Hire the DC from Texas U, LSU, or USC. After the new GM fires Herm, he'll hire Cowher, and Cowher gets to spend 4 months to teach his defense. The only guy worth keeping is Gailey.

RustShack
12-19-2008, 12:00 PM
Its pretty hard to tell who the DC will be before you know who the GM and HC is.

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 12:01 PM
He's good at under bus throwing.

Yeah, that tune is starting to get old, probably to even the most casual observer.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 12:02 PM
I have no clue as to why some posters on here say that Herm will be gone. He has the backing of Clark Hunt, and has done a good job collecting young talent. I am of the opinion that Herm was in a no-win situation with the shit he took over, and is finally starting to get his own players in the mix. Why change now? I think it sets us back, especially when a new coach isn't going to want to stay with Gailey.He has a TOTAL of 15 wins in THREE SEASONS. He has the 32nd ranked defense. His clock management is pathetic. A competent GM will never hitch their wagon to that type of coaching. What can you dispute out of that?

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 12:05 PM
Me I wouldnt mind having Romeo Crennel for DC. He's a good DC better than Gun.

he runs a 3-4 dont count on it.

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 12:06 PM
Gunther is Chiefs football.

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 12:07 PM
can we lock the freakin thread?

TRR
12-19-2008, 12:14 PM
He has a TOTAL of 15 wins in THREE SEASONS. He has the 32nd ranked defense. His clock management is pathetic. A competent GM will never hitch their wagon to that type of coaching. What can you dispute out of that?

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 12:24 PM
He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.
He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 12:29 PM
He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.


are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his "five year" plan. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE. The team, particularly the defense endured alot of injuries. Hard to stay on schedule when you have to keep changing planes/trains.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

Sully
12-19-2008, 12:30 PM
Why change now?

Because he's a horrible coach.
He's a horrible coach with marginal players, he'd be a horrible coach with better players.

He's horrible.

Horrible.

Buehler445
12-19-2008, 12:30 PM
I hope it is not someone that has done it before, so Herm can "teach" him. Like he did with Solari. Then the D will be even worse, and Herm's employment can be DELETED. That's if Herm stays of course.

I hope to GOD AND EVERYTHING HOLY that the GM shitcans Herm 90 seconds after being hired.

TRR
12-19-2008, 12:32 PM
He's been GIVEN three years. His defense has REGRESSED. We gave up a draft pick, so he could FIX the defense and he hasn't. He firmly hitched his wagon to Mr. Bust, himself, Croyle. His FIX for the O-line has consisted of Damion McIntosh and Kyle Turley as the SOLUTIONS. His epic scouting consists of players like Jeff Webb throughout our entire roster. How exactly is the team getting BETTER under his watch? More youth doesn't equate to more progress. Herm is a bust in Kansas City. Failure after failure, after failure with that man.

If we started talking about coaches and QB's busting, there wouldn't be a head coach left in the league.

Also, you brought up Kyle Turley who is no longer on the roster, Jeff Webb who hardly plays, and Damion McIntosh who was moved to RT because Herm had the instincts to know Albert would be a stud at LT (while playing guard his whole career).

AND OF COURSE WE HAVE REGRESSED ON DEFENSE....KC is starting THREE rookie CB's, and their D line is made up of rookies, and 2-3rd year players. It's like coaching a college defense. All while trading away our best defensive player for more picks to help the team in the long run.

Again your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

Sully
12-19-2008, 12:32 PM
He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

If I see a guy in a room with some lincoln logs, and with those lincoln logs (and only those lincoln logs) he manages to set the room on fire, find a way to break the bigger logs, and ends up with just a pile of splintered crap...I'm surely not going to give him a job building my home, simply because he "didn't have the material to work with."

You don't need to see a guy coach pro bowlers to see he's a buffoon.

FringeNC
12-19-2008, 12:34 PM
Wow -- no one is really defending Gunther. It's about time.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 12:36 PM
are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his team. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE.

Just looking for the silver lining.....Actually Herm was a BIG PROPONENT of getting Turley AND McIntosh, so it looks like you might want to digress. Sorry, no amount of spin can vanish Herm's record, no matter how far he tries to distance himself from it or anybody else, MAKING EXCUSES. Where's Mike Smith's built-in excuse? How about Harbaugh's? This is the NFL, that means, if you don't show some progress in THREE YEARS TIME, then you aren't going to last long. Herm's had AMPLE AMOUNT of TIME and we NEVER ONCE, heard about a REBUILD, until his team went down the shitter. Rebuild is code for we suck and expect us to continue to suck-it's an EXCUSE and Herm and everyone else backing him can't admit IT IS NOT WORKING!!!!Unless of course you think losing 12 games(or MORE) in a season is getting better-news flash it isn't.

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 12:39 PM
GUNTHER KICKS ASS

Buehler445
12-19-2008, 12:39 PM
If I see a guy in a room with some lincoln logs, and with those lincoln logs (and only those lincoln logs) he manages to set the room on fire, find a way to break the bigger logs, and ends up with just a pile of splintered crap...I'm surely not going to give him a job building my home, simply because he "didn't have the material to work with."

You don't need to see a guy coach pro bowlers to see he's a buffoon.


That is actually an amazing analogy for Sqirmin. Rep.

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 12:41 PM
He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

As before, I disagree with you on most of these points, but that is what makes this place tick.

You can't have it both ways with Herm.

If you are going to give him credit for that playoff debacle of 2006, you have to hold him accountable as well. To say the poor guy was saddled with a mess, that took him into the playoffs, is giving it to him both ways.

He got into the playoffs with DVs team, and clearly showed he didn't want to be there. In fact, he was so removed from it, his wife had to tell him he made it. IMO Herm put out zero effort trying to beat his buddy, Dungy, in the playoffs with DVs team. The team could detect that, and put out about the same.

From the day Herm Fucking Edwards has first put on a KC hat, it has been about his fucking ego. No fucking way was he going anywhere with someone elses team.

Blow the shit up! I want my OWN TEAM dammit! My boss won't let me have my own team, I will go over his head. The only way to do this is the Herm Edwards way!

He took the job, and probably cashed all the million dollar checks, so I have no sympathy for the weasel. He owes us sympathy, he has disgraced this team and franchise.

FringeNC
12-19-2008, 12:49 PM
He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

Define dismantling the team. I see that and similar terms used all the time on here, but I am confused as to what it means.

RustShack
12-19-2008, 12:49 PM
Three years is the magic year for coachs. This is Herms third year and its also his worst year. This is Gun's 5th? Time for a change.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 12:51 PM
As before, I disagree with you on most of these points, but that is what makes this place tick.

You can't have it both ways with Herm.

If you are going to give him credit for that playoff debacle of 2006, you have to hold him accountable as well. To say the poor guy was saddled with a mess, that took him into the playoffs, is giving it to him both ways.

He got into the playoffs with DVs team, and clearly showed he didn't want to be there. In fact, he was so removed from it, his wife had to tell him he made it. IMO Herm put out zero effort trying to beat his buddy, Dungy, in the playoffs with DVs team. The team could detect that, and put out about the same.

From the day Herm ****ing Edwards has first put on a KC hat, it has been about his ****ing ego. No ****ing way was he going anywhere with someone elses team.

Blow the shit up! I want my OWN TEAM dammit! My boss won't let me have my own team, I will go over his head. The only way to do this is the Herm Edwards way!

He took the job, and probably cashed all the million dollar checks, so I have no sympathy for the weasel. He owes us sympathy, he has disgraced this team and franchise.Agreed. Good take.

sfchief
12-19-2008, 12:54 PM
How's about a young guy like Tampa's Raheem Morris?

Morris is my choice, but with kiffen leaving he will most likely be Tampa's new DC

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Actually Herm was a BIG PROPONENT of getting Turley AND McIntosh, so it looks like you might want to digress. Sorry, no amount of spin can vanish Herm's record, no matter how far he tries to distance himself from it or anybody else, MAKING EXCUSES. Where's Mike Smith's built-in excuse? How about Harbaugh's? This is the NFL, that means, if you don't show some progress in THREE YEARS TIME, then you aren't going to last long. Herm's had AMPLE AMOUNT of TIME and we NEVER ONCE, heard about a REBUILD, until his team went down the shitter. Rebuild is code for we suck and expect us to continue to suck-it's an EXCUSE and Herm and everyone else backing him can't admit IT IS NOT WORKING!!!!Unless of course you think losing 12 games(or MORE) in a season is getting better-news flash it isn't.


some loosely quoted discussions, if I may suggest.....

summer 2007 -
Herm: okay, we backed into the playoffs, but that was blind luck we need to shit can alot of old players and start building youth.

Carl: not on my watch - get a few young players and and several vets, make another run.

Herm: if you say so, boss. (turns to Clark) this ain't going to work, but I'll be a team player. I want to start over if it doesn't work. And you may need to get rid of Carl to do it, or at least get him the F up off me! (turns to press) we are going to make another run. We seemed real close last year. (turns to Ray Farmer) - get me a couple pros - turley, damon mac, see if Donnie wants to come back, I don't know see what else we can plug a few holes with. (turns back to Carl) can we at least start Brodie this year, we got to see what we got with him, it's the smart thing to do.

Carl: nah, I want damon, he give us the best short term answer, I want to win now.

Herm: Dammit Carl :cuss:

Summer 2008

Herm: told you so, Carl - told you so Clark.

Carl: B'ah- if only LJ wouldn't have gotten injuried, why did I let you talk me into trading Trent Green....

Clark: 'um, yeah - I think you should back the F off of Herm, I want you to support his philosophy this year.

Carl: Your father just turned over in his grave. Do you know who you are talking to? I wiped your butt as a baby, bounced you on my knee. You are dead to me.....

Herm: point for Me, he shoots, he scores. Lets get some stuff done! (turns to team) you, you, you and you for sure - get the F out. You, I don't want to get rid of you, but you are going to get me some young draftees.

TRR
12-19-2008, 01:06 PM
Define dismantling the team. I see that and similar terms used all the time on here, but I am confused as to what it means.

Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

shitgoose
12-19-2008, 01:11 PM
The Travelocity Gnome

thisROFL

FringeNC
12-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young.

Isn't that what every team does every year via the draft? I just don't buy the argument that Herm is in the first year of his rebuilding process. The rebuilding process is an annual occurrence for every team (unless they have traded away their draft picks). Herm's been at it 3 years. He wasn't saddled with having no draft picks because they had been traded away.

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 01:18 PM
Wow -- no one is really defending Gunther. It's about time.

I don't know what's going on with him, is the D just relied on to much, they have had some bright spots, but lots of injuries this year, I don't know, I want to like Gun, but I don't know if he gets a pass. krummie for sure doesn't, no top drafted lineman has turned out successful (I know jury still out right now on dorsey)

Agent V
12-19-2008, 01:24 PM
I don't know what's going on with him, is the D just relied on to much, they have had some bright spots, but lots of injuries this year, I don't know, I want to like Gun, but I don't know if he gets a pass. krummie for sure doesn't, no top drafted lineman has turned out successful (I know jury still out right now on dorsey)
Yes. It's time to stop giving him a free pass.

F**k Gunther.

jjchieffan
12-19-2008, 01:34 PM
Rod Marinelli

Frankie
12-19-2008, 01:49 PM
It's funny no one mentions Rivera anymore. A few years ago everybody here had a big hard-on for him. He was THE MAN! You guys too easily fall in love with any D coach who has had some success in only the previous year. The same thing is happening on this thread.

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 01:57 PM
Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

Herm brought in Ty Law.

Micjones
12-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Morris is my choice, but with kiffen leaving he will most likely be Tampa's new DC

I was hoping he hadn't yet decided to leave and join Lane's staff.
I guess that was confirmed a few days ago though according to various reports.

RATS!

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 02:02 PM
Herm brought in Ty Law.I thought the same thing when I read TRR's post.:D



The Herm backers are lost at sea.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 02:04 PM
Marinelli would be more sought after by Tampa, than Herm would.

Fruit Ninja
12-19-2008, 02:04 PM
Gun is going to stay as another year just like Herm is.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Gun is going to stay as another year just like Herm is.ROFL

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 02:09 PM
I thought the same thing when I read TRR's post.:D



The Herm backers are lost at sea.

Yeah, things get all twisted, causing the memory to get flustrated.

Fish
12-19-2008, 02:44 PM
Herm brought in Ty Law.

And everyone(especially fans) proceeded to do cartwheels over that signing too.....

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 02:53 PM
And everyone(especially fans) proceeded to do cartwheels over that signing too.....

I will not disagree with that, he had just had 10 interceptions the previous season in NY.

But to say poor Herm was saddled with this guy, is not correct.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 02:53 PM
And everyone(especially fans) proceeded to do cartwheels over that signing too..... I was in that camp when Vermeil was here, but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best.

Fish
12-19-2008, 02:55 PM
I was in that camp when Vermeil was here, but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best.

Sure.............

el borracho
12-19-2008, 03:03 PM
He has a TOTAL of 15 wins in THREE SEASONS. He has the 32nd ranked defense. His clock management is pathetic. A competent GM will never hitch their wagon to that type of coaching. What can you dispute out of that?

More important than his three years here are his eight years, overall, IMO, and you cannot blame them all on Carl Peterson.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 03:11 PM
Sure.............Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?

Gee, I feel for those that actually believed that. How anybody could assume Law would be anything more than stop-gap at his age, was delusional then.

TRR
12-19-2008, 03:12 PM
I thought the same thing when I read TRR's post.:D



The Herm backers are lost at sea.

Carl Peterson brought in Ty Law. He pushed for him from the beginning. As soon as his skills eroded, he was gone and youth was in. Herm's decision again to go young.

Also, whoever was talking about dismantling a team, and teams doing that every year in the draft...not like what we did this season. KC started rookies at LT, CB, CB, DT, Nickel CB, and played second year players at DE, DT, amongst other positions. When you "dismantle" a team, it's done like Herm did it.

Ari Chi3fs
12-19-2008, 03:16 PM
Is Gregg Williams available?

MOhillbilly
12-19-2008, 03:17 PM
anybody but GW. please lord! anyone but GW.

poopchutecowboy
12-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Regardless of if Herm is still here "which I believe is highly unlikely". Who would you like to see as Gunther's replacement?

I heard Greg Robinson just got caanned!!!!!! lol

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 03:23 PM
I will not disagree with that, he had just had 10 interceptions the previous season in NY.

But to say poor Herm was saddled with this guy, is not correct.


my opinion was that he got saddled with the IDEA - carl's idea - to "stay competative" one more year. Once he knew that he had to try and find some vets that would service his needs, ie - law et al.

CoMoChief
12-19-2008, 03:24 PM
Gunther belongs in KC forever.

TRR
12-19-2008, 03:24 PM
my opinion was that he got saddled with the IDEA - carl's idea - to "stay competative" one more year. Once he knew that he had to try and find some vets that would service his needs, ie - law et al.

You are correct. Which is also the same reason why Solari was made an Offensive Coordinator, and the same offense (that Saunders ran) was kept. Not because Herm was a fan of it, but because Carl Peterson was.

Frazod
12-19-2008, 03:36 PM
Gunther belongs in KC forever.

Yes. He'd make a fine steely-eyed, foul-mouthed towlboy.

Ari Chi3fs
12-19-2008, 03:36 PM
anybody but GW. please lord! anyone but GW.

He is a VERY good DC... and a crummy HC... so why NO GW?

Fish
12-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?

Gee, I feel for those that actually believed that. How anybody could assume Law would be anything more than stop-gap at his age, was delusional then.

For another decade? I don't know of anybody who was saying that. Way to move the goalposts....

HemiEd
12-19-2008, 03:53 PM
my opinion was that he got saddled with the IDEA - carl's idea - to "stay competative" one more year. Once he knew that he had to try and find some vets that would service his needs, ie - law et al.

So Herm has sold you, this is not his fault either?

Ok, but if Ty Law had gotten 10 interceptions for the Chiefs, instead of falling on his ass every time he needed to make a play, Herm would have given Carl credit for aquiring Ty Law, right?

ROFLROFLROFL I remember that arogant weasel bragging about bringing Ty Law into KC!

YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! If he is going to take the credit, he has to take the blame.

Claynus
12-19-2008, 03:54 PM
Gunther should replace Bob Gretz. I'd be addicted to reading his propagunda.

crazycoffey
12-19-2008, 03:57 PM
So Herm has sold you, this is not his fault either?

Ok, but if Ty Law had gotten 10 interceptions for the Chiefs, instead of falling on his ass every time he needed to make a play, Herm would have given Carl credit for aquiring Ty Law, right?

ROFLROFLROFL I remember that arogant weasel bragging about bringing Ty Law into KC!

YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! If he is going to take the credit, he has to take the blame.


first off, read all my posts before you decide you understand my opinion. Second I just said that it seems to me Carl stopped Herm from doing what herm wanted to do. IF that is true then once Carls tells Herm he has to get some Vets, why wouldn't Herm want to try and do his best at getting a seasoned vet. Law seemed like a good signing to many of us, as a stop gap. We needed help at that position and Carl wasn't going to let Herm go for the overhaul.

It's a possible scenerio and a believable scenerio. I don't know what exactly happened behind closed doors, but I guess I should be humbled to be having a conversation with someone who obviously must have been there.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 04:04 PM
For another decade? I don't know of anybody who was saying that. Way to move the goalposts....
Then what does this mean....Originally Posted by KC Fish
Sure.............




That's how you replied, when I said I knew he was a stop-gap. Sure sounds like you are implying, I'm wrong and that the masses, (you seem to be including yourself in with that train of thought), thought Law would be around for quite some time-I obviously didn't. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

jjchieffan
12-19-2008, 04:32 PM
Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.

Who Needs Offense With Chiefs' Defense?

By THOMAS GEORGE
Published: September 10, 1996

The Chiefs have the type of defense that can carry an offense. The Chiefs have the type of defense that can propel Kansas City into Super Bowl XXXI.

This Kansas City defense returns each starter from a unit that finished second league-wide in defense a year ago. They can rock you up the middle, catch you around the end and sprint with you downfield. They knock the ball loose. They catch it. They even score with it, sometimes more than the opponent's offense.

That was the case here on Sunday. Chiefs defense 9, Oakland Raiders offense 3. That was the subplot of Kansas City's 19-3 victory over the Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City's seventh straight over Oakland.

The Chiefs blocked a field goal, forced two turnovers, made two sacks, scored a safety and returned a fumble 80 yards for a touchdown. This was hot stuff. This was like watching cheese melt on a grill. They made the Raiders' offense look gooey and sticky, especially near the Chiefs' goal line.

Every defense needs a little help from its offense. In recent seasons, the Chiefs' offense has not done its part, which is why Kansas City has consistently been bounced early in the playoffs. While the quarterback, Steve Bono, was shaky on Sunday, the offense contributed with a running game that featured 31 rushing attempts. Kansas City is now 50-2 in the 90's when it runs 30 or more times in a game. Included in that streak is a string of 31 consecutive victories. When Kansas City can run it, coupled with this defense, this team is nearly unbeatable.

There were other ways the Chiefs' offense helped the defense. Art Shell, the Raiders' Hall of Fame tackle, used to be the Raiders head coach. He is the Chiefs' offensive line coach now.

''Art came into the defensive linemen's meeting last week and he sat down with us and told us each of their offensive linemen's strengths and weaknesses,'' said Chiefs end Neil Smith. ''That helps to hear it coming from their former coach. It helps coming from a former player. Art wants us to win and he wants to beat the Raiders. There is still some bitterness there, just like in the Kansas City-Oakland rivalry.''

Score another one for Shell. He is 3-0 now versus the Raiders. Score another one for Marcus Allen. The former Raiders running back is now 7-0 versus his old team. Score another one for the Chiefs' defense. It has scored a touchdown in each of the last four Raiders games.

This Chiefs' defense does not have a weak link.

Peek at the line. From left to right, it is Smith, Joe Phillips, Dan Saleaumua and Vaughn Booker. Smith is the most talented, Saleaumua the most gritty.

Peek at the linebackers: Derrick Thomas, Tracy Simien and Anthony Davis. Thomas gained both sacks and was responsible for the Chiefs' safety when he knocked Raiders quarterback Billy Joe Hobert silly in the end zone in the fourth quarter for the game's final points. Simien gained a second-quarter interception. Booker is a rock to block -- he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 293 pounds.

Peek at the secondary. It is James Hasty and Dale Carter at the corners and Mark Collins and Brian Washington at the safety position. Hasty is one of the stronger cornerbacks around (207 pounds), but he moves like a running back. Carter is a supreme talent. Collins covers as much ground as any free safety in the league and Washington (210 pounds) packs a punch at strong safety.

It was the Thomas-Hasty combination that ultimately foiled the Raiders. Opening the second half, after the Raiders had driven from their 24 to the Chiefs' 5, Thomas steamed around the Raiders left end and crushed Hobert. Hasty grabbed the loose ball and sped 80 yards for a touchdown, turning a potential tying Raiders score into a 14-0 Chiefs lead.

Take a strong defense and toss in a spectacular player and you have the makings of something special. That is the Chiefs' defense, positioned by the creative coordinator Gunther Cunningham. That is Thomas. In two games he has four sacks. He has career marks of 19 multiple sack games now, 89 sacks and 35 forced fumbles.

the Talking Can
12-19-2008, 04:36 PM
Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.




jesus christ this fan base can just not let go of failure

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 04:50 PM
jesus christ this fan base can just not let go of failure40 years of programming is harder to break than I expected, I've never seen so many fans CLING to half-ass coaching in my life.

Fish
12-19-2008, 04:51 PM
Then what does this mean....Originally Posted by KC Fish
Sure.............




That's how you replied, when I said I knew he was a stop-gap. Sure sounds like you are implying, I'm wrong and that the masses, (you seem to be including yourself in with that train of thought), thought Law would be around for quite some time-I obviously didn't. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

This started with HemiEd stating Herm brought in Ty Law, meaning that in hindsight it was a bad decision. I stated that the Law signing wasn't a bad signing at the time and many posters were happy with that. Some were downright ecstatic with the idea. There were posts claiming Law/Surtain would be the best CB pair in the NFL.

You replied, "but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best." Which isn't true. Very few if any thought Law was going to decline so quickly. This place was hysteria with Law threads and how it was going to dramatically improve our defense. That's what my "Sure" response was directed at.

Then you come back with "Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?" Well nobody said anything about being the future for a decade. The argument was whether the Law signing was a bad move and attributable to Herm, and you turned it into "Well if you thought he'd be here for a decade you were stupid."

If that wasn't your intention then I apologize, but the way it looked, you were changing the parameters of the argument along the way.

BigChiefFan
12-19-2008, 05:05 PM
This started with HemiEd stating Herm brought in Ty Law, meaning that in hindsight it was a bad decision. I stated that the Law signing wasn't a bad signing at the time and many posters were happy with that. Some were downright ecstatic with the idea. There were posts claiming Law/Surtain would be the best CB pair in the NFL.

You replied, "but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best." Which isn't true. Very few if any thought Law was going to decline so quickly. This place was hysteria with Law threads and how it was going to dramatically improve our defense. That's what my "Sure" response was directed at.

Then you come back with "Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?" Well nobody said anything about being the future for a decade. The argument was whether the Law signing was a bad move and attributable to Herm, and you turned it into "Well if you thought he'd be here for a decade you were stupid."

If that wasn't your intention then I apologize, but the way it looked, you were changing the parameters of the argument along the way.
Fair enough- I was wondering where all that came from-now I know you weren't basing everything directed at me, but rather the past comments of many individuals. Thanks for clearing that up.

blueballs
12-19-2008, 05:07 PM
give Gun some pie
and send his ass packing

StcChief
12-19-2008, 05:37 PM
the new GM will have alot of say....I"m just saying.

crossbow
12-19-2008, 06:16 PM
Just bring in Greg Robinson and be done with it.

Mecca
12-19-2008, 06:34 PM
JJ want a quick tip, you could have called defensive plays for that defense in 96 anyone could have, that personnel anyone could coordinate it. Give any fool 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners and you can basically do whatever the hell you want.

jjchieffan
12-19-2008, 06:53 PM
Marty had 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners during his entire time in KC. The D was its best with Gunther at the helm. Do you remember Dave Adolph? The D took a step back under him. I was thrilled to see him leave. Then Gun came in and replaced him and took the D to another level.

Mecca
12-19-2008, 06:54 PM
If you go look at the rankings Guns D's were inconsistent from year to year, even with all that talent.

jjchieffan
12-19-2008, 07:10 PM
Back it up with stats, because I don't remember his defenses ever being inconsistent.

Mecca
12-19-2008, 07:13 PM
Point me to where there are stats from the 90s.

banyon
12-19-2008, 07:15 PM
Ron Rivera or Crenel would be solid.

MikeMaslowski
12-19-2008, 09:10 PM
Whoever it is... i say we chip in and put him up in a Holiday Inn Express every Saturday night of the season.

chiefzilla1501
12-19-2008, 09:23 PM
Here's the deal, though.

Marty has been a head coach for three different teams where he brought a star-studded defense. THREE. In each of those teams, the team he left collapsed soon after he left.

Moral of the story? Marty is a damn good defensive coach and he's been a damn good defensive coach with AND without Gunther. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.

Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.

Who Needs Offense With Chiefs' Defense?

By THOMAS GEORGE
Published: September 10, 1996

The Chiefs have the type of defense that can carry an offense. The Chiefs have the type of defense that can propel Kansas City into Super Bowl XXXI.

This Kansas City defense returns each starter from a unit that finished second league-wide in defense a year ago. They can rock you up the middle, catch you around the end and sprint with you downfield. They knock the ball loose. They catch it. They even score with it, sometimes more than the opponent's offense.

That was the case here on Sunday. Chiefs defense 9, Oakland Raiders offense 3. That was the subplot of Kansas City's 19-3 victory over the Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City's seventh straight over Oakland.

The Chiefs blocked a field goal, forced two turnovers, made two sacks, scored a safety and returned a fumble 80 yards for a touchdown. This was hot stuff. This was like watching cheese melt on a grill. They made the Raiders' offense look gooey and sticky, especially near the Chiefs' goal line.

Every defense needs a little help from its offense. In recent seasons, the Chiefs' offense has not done its part, which is why Kansas City has consistently been bounced early in the playoffs. While the quarterback, Steve Bono, was shaky on Sunday, the offense contributed with a running game that featured 31 rushing attempts. Kansas City is now 50-2 in the 90's when it runs 30 or more times in a game. Included in that streak is a string of 31 consecutive victories. When Kansas City can run it, coupled with this defense, this team is nearly unbeatable.

There were other ways the Chiefs' offense helped the defense. Art Shell, the Raiders' Hall of Fame tackle, used to be the Raiders head coach. He is the Chiefs' offensive line coach now.

''Art came into the defensive linemen's meeting last week and he sat down with us and told us each of their offensive linemen's strengths and weaknesses,'' said Chiefs end Neil Smith. ''That helps to hear it coming from their former coach. It helps coming from a former player. Art wants us to win and he wants to beat the Raiders. There is still some bitterness there, just like in the Kansas City-Oakland rivalry.''

Score another one for Shell. He is 3-0 now versus the Raiders. Score another one for Marcus Allen. The former Raiders running back is now 7-0 versus his old team. Score another one for the Chiefs' defense. It has scored a touchdown in each of the last four Raiders games.

This Chiefs' defense does not have a weak link.

Peek at the line. From left to right, it is Smith, Joe Phillips, Dan Saleaumua and Vaughn Booker. Smith is the most talented, Saleaumua the most gritty.

Peek at the linebackers: Derrick Thomas, Tracy Simien and Anthony Davis. Thomas gained both sacks and was responsible for the Chiefs' safety when he knocked Raiders quarterback Billy Joe Hobert silly in the end zone in the fourth quarter for the game's final points. Simien gained a second-quarter interception. Booker is a rock to block -- he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 293 pounds.

Peek at the secondary. It is James Hasty and Dale Carter at the corners and Mark Collins and Brian Washington at the safety position. Hasty is one of the stronger cornerbacks around (207 pounds), but he moves like a running back. Carter is a supreme talent. Collins covers as much ground as any free safety in the league and Washington (210 pounds) packs a punch at strong safety.

It was the Thomas-Hasty combination that ultimately foiled the Raiders. Opening the second half, after the Raiders had driven from their 24 to the Chiefs' 5, Thomas steamed around the Raiders left end and crushed Hobert. Hasty grabbed the loose ball and sped 80 yards for a touchdown, turning a potential tying Raiders score into a 14-0 Chiefs lead.

Take a strong defense and toss in a spectacular player and you have the makings of something special. That is the Chiefs' defense, positioned by the creative coordinator Gunther Cunningham. That is Thomas. In two games he has four sacks. He has career marks of 19 multiple sack games now, 89 sacks and 35 forced fumbles.

RippedmyFlesh
12-19-2008, 09:26 PM
Here's the deal, though.

. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.
I agree 100% and have thought that for a long time even when gun was hired as HC.

Claynus
12-19-2008, 09:26 PM
Back it up with stats, because I don't remember his defenses ever being inconsistent.

Are you really defending Gunther?

1995 Chiefs - 2nd overall defense
1996 Chiefs - 18th overall defense
1997 Chiefs - 11th overall defense
1998 Chiefs - 9th overall defense

Friendo
12-19-2008, 09:32 PM
Here's the deal, though.

Marty has been a head coach for three different teams where he brought a star-studded defense. THREE. In each of those teams, the team he left collapsed soon after he left.

Moral of the story? Marty is a damn good defensive coach and he's been a damn good defensive coach with AND without Gunther. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.

it would seem so :thumb:

The Bad Guy
12-19-2008, 09:38 PM
I have no clue as to why some posters on here say that Herm will be gone. He has the backing of Clark Hunt, and has done a good job collecting young talent. I am of the opinion that Herm was in a no-win situation with the shit he took over, and is finally starting to get his own players in the mix. Why change now? I think it sets us back, especially when a new coach isn't going to want to stay with Gailey.

HOW IN THE HELL COULD IT SET US BACK?

We are running a gimmick offense and have the 32nd ranked defense.

What are we going to have next year? 1 win, zero wins? Would that be a setback?

It truly amazes me that people actually defend this loser on a daily basis.

smittysbar
12-20-2008, 01:48 AM
are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his "five year" plan. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE. The team, particularly the defense endured alot of injuries. Hard to stay on schedule when you have to keep changing planes/trains.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

Sorry CC, but if you thought this was the first year of the rebuild...........not the case

smittysbar
12-20-2008, 01:59 AM
Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

Can you prove this, or just off of one quote off of hard knocks that is edited to make drama?

smittysbar
12-20-2008, 02:17 AM
Carl Peterson brought in Ty Law. He pushed for him from the beginning. As soon as his skills eroded, he was gone and youth was in. Herm's decision again to go young.

Also, whoever was talking about dismantling a team, and teams doing that every year in the draft...not like what we did this season. KC started rookies at LT, CB, CB, DT, Nickel CB, and played second year players at DE, DT, amongst other positions. When you "dismantle" a team, it's done like Herm did it.

God, WTF.........Herm Wanted Law......BAD, he pushed for him

Dylan
12-20-2008, 03:18 AM
IS there any young and upcoming asst to eagles DC Jim Johnson?


Pete Jenkins
Defensive Line Coach


With 34 years of experience tutoring quality defensive lines on the collegiate level, Pete Jenkins was added to the Eagles coaching staff in 2006. For the 66-year-old Jenkins, this is his first NFL coaching stint. Jenkins had retired to Santa Rosa Beach, FL, in 2002 after a second tour of duty as the defensive line coach at LSU.

The Eagles defensive line has ranked 4th in the NFL in sacks during each of the last two seasons (31 in 2006 and 30 in 2007). Under Jenkins' tutelage, DE Trent Cole has flourished, earning his first career Pro Bowl berth after a 12.5-sack, 103-tackle season. Additionally, Cole and DT Mike Patterson (114) each eclipsed the 100-tackle mark, becoming the first Eagles defensive line pair to do so since 1991 (Jerome Brown, Clyde Simmons, Reggie White, and Mike Pitts). The defensive line also contributed heavily to the NFL's 7th-ranked rushing defense (95.8 yards per game and 3.8 yards per carry).

Throughout his career, Jenkins has coached 17 All-SEC performers and over 30 linemen who have gone on to play in the NFL, including Leonard Marshall, Henry Thomas, Kendrick Allen, Marcus Spears and Jarvis Green at LSU, David Galloway at Florida, Kevin Henry at Mississippi State, and Leonardo Carson at Auburn. In fact, 12 of his defensive lineman were active on NFL rosters in 1992.

Eagles offensive line coach Juan Castillo, who often visited Jenkins during his tenure at LSU, learned many of his coaching techniques from him.

"I thought I was a pretty good line coach 'til I met him," said Castillo. "What a coach. That's where it all started for me as far as being a teacher. Coach Jenkins is an excellent teacher and fundamentals are so important for him."

Jenkins' second stint with LSU was highlighted with an SEC Championship in 2001, as the team went 10-3 and earned a Sugar Bowl victory over Illinois. In all, Jenkins has been a part of five SEC Championship squads (four with LSU in 1984, 1986, 1988 and 2001 and one with Auburn in 1997) and 21 postseason bowl games during his career.

Jenkins originally broke into the college ranks as the defensive coordinator for Troy State in 1968 when Troy won the NAIA national championship. He then moved to South Carolina for four seasons and Southern Mississippi for three years before embarking on one-year stops at Oklahoma State and Florida. Jenkins arrived at LSU in 1980 and spent 11 years there serving as a defensive line coach, defensive coordinator and assistant head coach. He then worked four years at Mississippi State and five at Auburn before rejoining LSU under head coach Nick Saban.


http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/CoachBios.asp?coach_id=6

milkman
12-20-2008, 07:44 AM
He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.

If the San Diego game was the straw that broke the Carl's back, then should do the same thing for Herman fucking Edwards.

There have been three games, the Jets, the Bucs, and this last game, that the Chiefs had the chance to win, and getting out coached in the second half was directly responsible for those losses.

Herman fucking Edwards is a guy that's going to redefine mediocrity if given the chance.

Why the fuck anyone would argue that he should be retained for another season is a mystery.

journeyscarab
12-20-2008, 09:25 AM
i think we Clark decides to grow some balls and totally clean house. I think that Gaily will stay but i think Gunth is gone. I think we decide to pay big money for Rex Ryan, and bring back Bill Cowher as head coach. How great would that be?

BigChiefFan
12-20-2008, 09:28 AM
i think we Clark decides to grow some balls and totally clean house. I think that Gaily will stay but i think Gunth is gone. I think we decide to pay big money for Rex Ryan, and bring back Bill Cowher as head coach. How great would that be?
Gailey gets shitcanned, too. They ALL GO.

journeyscarab
12-20-2008, 09:39 AM
i like Gailey, he has some good plays. But im also with you i dont know if we can have an offense that is played in college.

BigChiefFan
12-20-2008, 09:42 AM
i like Gailey, he has some good plays. But im also with you i dont know if we can have an offense that is played in college.It's okay to run the spread-alot of teams have it in their playbooks, but it can't be a staple, because it doesn't work well in the red zone. Also, I just believe to do this right, the HEAD COACH should be allowed to DECIDE on who he wants to coach under him. Forcing Gailey or any other coach on somebody is the wrong way to go about things.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 09:47 AM
Ron Rivera or Crenel would be solid.

Take Romeo. Please.

King_Chief_Fan
12-20-2008, 09:50 AM
Gailey gets shitcanned, too. They ALL GO.

yes sir....the spread gets point in the first half and stopped in the second half of a game. Too gimicky

KCChiefsFan88
12-20-2008, 09:55 AM
Scott Pioli as GM, Josh McDaniels as Head Coach and Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator...

I want the Chiefs to be New England West

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:00 AM
...I want the Chiefs to be New England West

Good idea if you can figure out a way to clone Belichick. Otherwise I doubt that any other combination would work.

milkman
12-20-2008, 10:00 AM
Scott Pioli as GM, Josh McDaniels as Head Coach and Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator...

I want the Chiefs to be New England West

Let me guess.

Matt Cassell at QB, right?

KCChiefsFan88
12-20-2008, 10:12 AM
Let me guess.

Matt Cassell at QB, right?


Absolutely... even without having the caliber of WRs such as Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Cassel would be a good fit in Josh McDaniels offense, wherever McDaniels ends up.

The Cassel fit with the Josh McDaniels offense is similar to how well Trent Green fit with the Al Saunders/Dick Vermeil offense.

The biggest difference between Trent Green/Dick Vermeil and Matt Cassel/Josh McDaniels would be the fact Trent Green was 30 going on 31 years old when he was traded to the Chiefs and Vermeil was 64 going on 65 when he was hired by the Chiefs.

Matt Cassel is 26 going on 27 years old next May and Josh McDaniels is 32 going on 33 years old next April... the Cassel/McDaniels combo would have a much longer shelf life.

Frankie
12-20-2008, 10:15 AM
Gun is going to stay as another year just like Herm is.

This.

Frankie
12-20-2008, 10:16 AM
anybody but GW. please lord! anyone but GW.

What do you have against Bush?

milkman
12-20-2008, 10:16 AM
Absolutely... even without having the caliber of WRs such as Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Cassel would be a good fit in Josh McDaniels offense, wherever McDaniels ends up.

The Cassel fit with the Josh McDaniels offense is similar to how well Trent Green fit with the Al Saunders/Dick Vermeil offense.

The biggest difference between Trent Green/Dick Vermeil and Matt Cassel/Josh McDaniels would be the fact Trent Green was 30 going on 31 years old when he was traded to the Chiefs and Vermeil was 64 going on 65 when he was hired by the Chiefs.

Matt Cassel is 26 going on 27 years old next May and Josh McDaniels is 32 going on 33 years old next April... the Cassel/McDaniels combo would have a much longer shelf life.

No way in hell I want Cassell.
Without those receivers, he'd be about as effective as Scott Mitchell.

His arm strength isn't even up to Trent Green.

You can't succeed with a QB as limited as Cassell unless you have the rest of the offense in place.

BigChiefFan
12-20-2008, 10:23 AM
This.I laughed at him for saying it-now I'll laugh at you.ROFL Gunther is NOT STAYING. Herm is NOT STAYING. Sorry, Frankie, but why can't you see-these coaches are all gone-they have not lived up to their end of the bargain-time to move on from this disaster.

Fish
12-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Point me to where there are stats from the 90s.

FYI: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/

dallaschiefsfan
12-20-2008, 11:43 AM
#1 offense in the league with a competent DC to at least make it to average on defense?

Yeah, thank God that didn't happen.

This is a myth. Herm is an EXCEPTIONAL secondary coach...he's a horrible head coach and probably an average to BAD defensive coordinator. I've never found any evidence to support a sustained dominance by defenses that Herm has been the primary builder of said defense. He's living off of Kiffin and Dungy's reputation. Period.

shaneo69
12-20-2008, 06:57 PM
If Cowher is brought in, I could see Gailey staying since they were together in Pittsburgh.

And if that's the case, possibly Haslett as DC since he also worked under Cowher.

MOhillbilly
12-22-2008, 03:45 PM
He is a VERY good DC... and a crummy HC... so why NO GW?


cause i wanna be able to enjoy the BB.