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TrebMaxx
12-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Question about my wife's 2004 Ford Escape 2WD XLT that I took in to get new tires and the front brake pads changed. The car has just over 33,000 miles and the brake wear tabs just started making noise 2 days ago. The shop where we took the car in just called and said that the rotors were too thin to be turned. I find this hard to believe, this is the first brake job, so the rotors have never been turned before and such low mileage. I also had looked at the rotors and didn't see any abnormal grooving before I took it in. Does anyone out there know the specs for these rotors? The guy on the phone said that most cars have gone to throw away rotors. I call BS anyway I have never heard that before. I told him to go ahead and change them but I want to see the old rotors and may even take them with me to get them checked out some where else. I feel like I am being taken for a money grab.

chiefs1okie
12-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Did you feel any pulsating in the brakes when you came to a stop or slowed down? Any kind of vibration at all? If not then it sounds like you are being gouged a little. However, it isn't always a bad idea to have brakes and rotors done together. If you are handy at all it is something you could do yourself for less than $100 and about an hour of your time. Not that difficult to change pads and rotors. What are they charging you?

mikeyis4dcats.
12-20-2008, 12:33 PM
I have heard that many newer cars have thinner rotors and due to that they do not recommend turning them as it makes them warp faster. Cheap rotors for that vehicle would run $44 per at Autozone.

mikeyis4dcats.
12-20-2008, 12:33 PM
oh, and ask him to show you the calipers and the specs for the rotors from the manual.

TrebMaxx
12-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Did you feel any pulsating in the brakes when you came to a stop or slowed down? Any kind of vibration at all? If not then it sounds like you are being gouged a little. However, it isn't always a bad idea to have brakes and rotors done together. If you are handy at all it is something you could do yourself for less than $100 and about an hour of your time. Not that difficult to change pads and rotors. What are they charging you?

No, my wife had come home Wednesday night and told me the brakes were starting to squeal. She knows about telling me due to a previous episode early on in our marriage where she basically gouged the rotors when the pads were down to the rivets, but that's another story.:cuss: She said it was still driving normal so I went out to check things out. I could see the pads were getting thin and at the same time noticed she could probably use a set of new tires so I made the appointment to get it done today. I am not a total n00b when it come to cars and I used to do things like this back in the day. I just don't have the time or desire to do it myself anymore. I just can't find on the web any specs for minimum thickness for the Escapes rotors. I also have never heard of "throw away rotors" :BS:. The brake job was around $120 for pads and turning the rotors. He told the rotors are going to cost me another $96 x2, which from looking up prices seems fair.

Fish
12-20-2008, 12:58 PM
Rotors for that Escape should be about $45 a piece. Found them for $42 at Advance Auto. (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=221&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Disc%2fRotor) These are the 2-finned rotors, and if what you say is correct, I can't see how they would be too thin at this point. I think they're being lazy. I know from a friend in the business that a lot of shops would usually recommend new rotors if it would take longer than a few passes of turning them. He said these days it's just not cost effective to turn the rotors due to how long it takes grinding them down. It's usually the same with calipers. Recompressing calipers is a pain in the ass, and it's much easier for them to recommend new ones.

MIAdragon
12-20-2008, 01:00 PM
Its BS, you can turn those atlest 3-4 times. I used to have an 06 as a company car. (hated that POS)

chiefs1okie
12-20-2008, 01:10 PM
Wow. I know that I use O'reilly's a lot for pads and rotors here. Typically they charge me around 20-40 per side on rotors and would charge me 12-15 to turn the rotors. I personally just put new rotors on as the cost isn't that much more and my customers benefit from longer brake use. Pads generally are less than 25. I know they need to make a profit, but that sounds just a little high. BUT....what price do you put on your wife having a safe car to drive? Get it done and in a week or two you won't even miss the money spent.

Baconeater
12-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Rotors for that Escape should be about $45 a piece. Found them for $42 at Advance Auto. (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=221&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Disc%2fRotor) These are the 2-finned rotors, and if what you say is correct, I can't see how they would be too thin at this point. I think they're being lazy. I know from a friend in the business that a lot of shops would usually recommend new rotors if it would take longer than a few passes of turning them. He said these days it's just not cost effective to turn the rotors due to how long it takes grinding them down. It's usually the same with calipers. Recompressing calipers is a pain in the ass, and it's much easier for them to recommend new ones.

Recompressing calipers isn't difficult at all, all you have to do is take the lid off of the master cylinder to relieve the pressure, then push the piston back in with a c-clamp.

Anyway, as far as the rotors go, sounds like bs to me. I do all my own brake jobs because of this type of garbage, disc brakes are actually quite simple to work on.

Fish
12-20-2008, 01:54 PM
Recompressing calipers isn't difficult at all, all you have to do is take the lid off of the master cylinder to relieve the pressure, then push the piston back in with a c-clamp.

Anyway, as far as the rotors go, sounds like bs to me. I do all my own brake jobs because of this type of garbage, disc brakes are actually quite simple to work on.

All of them don't work that way. Quite a few require you to turn the caliper while it's being compressed. Which requires one of these:

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/mst55a.jpg

Different model cars have different shaped slots that the pins fit into. You have to use this key with a ratchet and turn the caliper while you also apply pressure. Making it all but impossible to use a c-clamp. And the key slips off easily most of the time.

But still, it's not overly difficult, but it can be a real pain in the ass...

TrebMaxx
12-20-2008, 02:10 PM
....what price do you put on your wife having a safe car to drive? Get it done and in a week or two you won't even miss the money spent.

This is the main point, her safety is of the most importance to me.

I just went to pick up the car. He showed me the book that stated the front rotor discard to be .860, then showed me the rotor measured at .841. I still find it hard to believe with the low miles and never before turned rotors. Makes me feel old... "In my day...blah, blah..."ROFL

jjchieffan
12-20-2008, 02:42 PM
I am surprised to hear that the rotors would even need turned, much less replaced. You said the pads were getting thin. Unless they were actually cutting into the rotors, then the rotors should be fine without being turned. Have him show you the rotors. If there are no grooves, tell him to leave them alone. I change my own brakes when needed, and my dad is a professional mechanic, so I am not just pulling this out of my ass.

JASONSAUTO
12-20-2008, 02:56 PM
I am surprised to hear that the rotors would even need turned, much less replaced. You said the pads were getting thin. Unless they were actually cutting into the rotors, then the rotors should be fine without being turned. Have him show you the rotors. If there are no grooves, tell him to leave them alone. I change my own brakes when needed, and my dad is a professional mechanic, so I am not just pulling this out of my ass.

at my shop we ALWAYS turn or replace the rotors. if not i've found that the new brakes dont break in properly and then the customer comes back in complaining of a squeak. so basically it's to try to stop comebacks. ALSO on these escapes i've personally noticed that the rotors are always dished from the hard pads they come from the factory with. So if you pick the car up and look at the rotors if they are dished you will be able to tell by a ridge on the inside and outside edge.

the 96 dollar charge IS quite a bit of markup from the 39.00 dollars I can buy the rotors for so thats an issue, BUT most shops wont use your own parts, also due to warranty issues(for example if i was to put on a starter and the starter went bad should it be on me to warranty the labor? no. why? i mark up the parts to halp cover those types of things. all shops do) but on items like those i usually go like 15-25% over cost.

jjchieffan
12-20-2008, 03:08 PM
at my shop we ALWAYS turn or replace the rotors. if not i've found that the new brakes dont break in properly and then the customer comes back in complaining of a squeak. so basically it's to try to stop comebacks. ALSO on these escapes i've personally noticed that the rotors are always dished from the hard pads they come from the factory with. So if you pick the car up and look at the rotors if they are dished you will be able to tell by a ridge on the inside and outside edge.

the 96 dollar charge IS quite a bit of markup from the 39.00 dollars I can buy the rotors for so thats an issue, BUT most shops wont use your own parts, also due to warranty issues(for example if i was to put on a starter and the starter went bad should it be on me to warranty the labor? no. why? i mark up the parts to halp cover those types of things. all shops do) but on items like those i usually go like 15-25% over cost.

I haven't had an escape, so I wasn't aware of the issue with dished rotors. if that is the case, then the rotors probably do need replaced. But I have never had an issue with my new brakes not breaking in properly on my personal stuff. I don't doubt that it happens though. Auto makers throw some cheap crap in their vehicles.

JASONSAUTO
12-20-2008, 03:42 PM
I haven't had an escape, so I wasn't aware of the issue with dished rotors. if that is the case, then the rotors probably do need replaced. But I have never had an issue with my new brakes not breaking in properly on my personal stuff. I don't doubt that it happens though. Auto makers throw some cheap crap in their vehicles.

THATS the big thing "personal stuff" what i'm doing is for other people. you want the job done right and IMO thats what it takes to do the job right. hell i charge 8 bucks to turn each rotor so it makes the job 16.00 higher.

The reason i turn if possible rather than replace is this :would you rather spend 16.00 OR 50.00-100.00 on new rotors?

a basic turn and replace pads at my shop averages 100.00 total. and i NEVER use the cheapest pads(again noise and comeback issues) always the middle grade to higher grade.

blueballs
12-20-2008, 03:46 PM
you realize how much it costs
to heat a garage with doors
going up and down all day long

Baconeater
12-20-2008, 03:56 PM
All of them don't work that way. Quite a few require you to turn the caliper while it's being compressed. Which requires one of these:

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/mst55a.jpg

Different model cars have different shaped slots that the pins fit into. You have to use this key with a ratchet and turn the caliper while you also apply pressure. Making it all but impossible to use a c-clamp. And the key slips off easily most of the time.

But still, it's not overly difficult, but it can be a real pain in the ass...

Oh yeah, I forgot about those bastards, the wife's old Accord was like that. I don't recall what tool I used but once I realized the damn thing had to turn it wasn't terribly difficult. It did throw me for a loop though.

JASONSAUTO
12-20-2008, 06:15 PM
you realize how much it costs
to heat a garage with doors
going up and down all day long

ha ha i do it used to cost a shit ton. now i have a used oil furnace and I LOVE IT