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Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 09:41 PM
Run for mayor, yo!

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/946541.html

People keep asking me whatís next now that King Carl Peterson has been stripped of his throne.

The answer is simple. You donít understand this column if you believe the hunt for Peterson drove the content here. King Carl was a handy foil, not the focus.

His demise, however, has caused me to reflect about the industry I love.

Somewhere along my sophomore year of college, being a big-city newspaper columnist became my singular, professional obsession, replacing my childhood fantasy of playing in the National Football League.

My teammates would trace the career change to the spot on the bench my already-ample butt warmed along the sideline my re-redshirt year. Theyíre probably right. The humiliation of that second season sparked an intellectual awakening and evolution. It caused me to define myself beyond football.

I needed an identity. Journalist/columnist/entertainer/provocateur fit my personality rather nicely. They were the titles/characteristics that made my writing hero, Mike Royko, the best newspaper columnist of all time.

Perhaps itís an embarrassing admission revealing the immaturity of my personal life, but I must admit Iíve known no greater passion than my infatuation with being a relevant newspaper columnist. It consumes me.

And now Iím scared.

The conventional wisdom is that newspapers are dying. Weíre slashing employees, young people allegedly ignore us and what we report and say somehow matters less. A major newspaper in New York recently eliminated the sports columnist position. The two newspapers in Detroit announced last week theyíre soon only going to offer home delivery three days a week.

Weíre all hurting in this economy. The pain we feel at The Star when our valued colleagues are let go is no different from the pain you feel when a friend or loved one is laid off at Sprint, Hallmark or Ford.

But I want you to consider something when you think about the future of newspapers:

You canít have a democracy without us. If newspapers are dying, so is our system of government.

That is not written as a plea to buy our product. Itís written as a plea for you to understand you have a stake in the newspaper industry. Itís written as a plea for you to value and seek good, reliable, challenging and thought-provoking information.

If you do those things, newspapers will survive the troubled economy and rebound with a product that makes sense in the instant-information age. Our democracy depends on it.

That probably sounds ridiculously self-important coming from a sportswriter. The conceit does not diminish the truthfulness.

Let me explain with a short story.

On the same day that Chiefs owner Clark Hunt relieved Peterson of his responsibilities as president/CEO/general manager, my alma mater, Ball State, officially announced that its football coach, Brady Hoke, had accepted a job at San Diego State.

Yíall know I love Ball State. I was insanely distracted on Monday when Peterson was chopped.

My mother, who lives in Indianapolis, called me to gossip about the news. Sheíd heard on her television evening newscast that Hoke left Ball State because the Aztecs offered $300,000 more than BSU. She repeated this bit of information to me, and I chuckled in a twist of amusement and disbelief.

Since late September, I had worked feverishly trying to get the Ball State administration, Indiana print and broadcast media and the schoolís boosters to grasp that Hoke would have no choice but to leave if the school failed to invest in his assistant-coaching staff and coaching facilities.

I pegged my Cardinals as BCS-bowl threats during the offseason and realized that the schoolís non-support of the program the previous five years would make Hoke, a BSU alumnus, tempted to leave.

The schoolís president and athletic director ó the Mickey and Mouse of Division I athletics ó baited Hoke to depart by offering him a new contract that included no improvements for his assistants. It was an offer he had to refuse, and they knew it. After a 12-1 season that saw the Cardinals ranked in the top 25 most of the year, Hokeís best assistants were candidates for other jobs. Already some of the lowest-paid assistants in their conference, they were not inclined to stick around for no new money. Hokeís foundation at Ball State would be undermined. He had to go.

You can only find that kind of context in properly staffed, well-funded newspapers committed to journalism. Weíre losing that. The Indianapolis newspaper no longer has a reporter to cover Ball State. The newspaper in Muncie, where BSU is located, has no competition and little incentive to dig for news. The real story that precipitated Hokeís departure was never told.

Itís not good that we have fewer journalists scratching for the truth.

We canít govern fairly without substantive information. Never give up on newspapers. Weíre more worthy of a bailout than the jokers on Wall Street.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 09:45 PM
Uh, it's a University. A place were 99.999999999% go for education and to prepare life ahead.

Not to watch sports.

SNR
12-20-2008, 09:50 PM
I hate Ball State. So there.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Itís not good that we have fewer journalists scratching for the truth.

We don't have fewer journalists scratching for the truth.

We have more journalists but it's more difficult to figure out where to find the good ones.

Sorry about your rice bowl, dude.

Tuckdaddy
12-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Message to Fatlock: NOBODY CARES ABOUT BALL STATE! They don't have a big enough program to get sports writer to care nor readers to care about reading BS about them. That's why new papers don't cover them.

What a joke of an article.

Buehler445
12-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Weíre more worthy of a bailout than the jokers on Wall Street.

What? Does he really REALLY honestly think that the KC Star contributes more to America than does GM, Chrysler, and Ford? Really?

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:04 PM
I'm sorry but the KC Star has always been bad, going back to the 70's when there was a KC Times in the evening.

Whitlock is "mildly" entertaining and JoPo has been just too far out there for the regular reader during the past 2 years (too much baseball number crunching and "heart-warming" stories about people that no one cares about).

Wouldn't it be great if Clark could fire Whitlock as well?


ROFL :evil:

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Jason - I would say that democracy cannot survive the demise of a free press. The media of the press has changed from centrally controlled to people controlled. I think the key is for talented writers like yourself to find a home on the internet. In fact you probably already have: I read your column in print 2 times a year and on the internet probably 100. The key is: how can you and others like you make a living at it? Newspapers are dead. I think it is too late to save them. You are young enough you have to find your new niche.

If you think differently, tell us why.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:09 PM
Jason - I would say that democracy cannot survive the demise of a free press. The media of the press has changed from centrally controlled to people controlled. I think the key is for talented writers like yourself to find a home on the internet. In fact you probably already have: I read your column in print 2 times a year and on the internet probably 100. The key is: how can you and others like you make a living at it? Newspapers are dead. I think it is too late to save them. You are young enough you have to find your new niche.

If you think differently, tell us why.

That's the thing.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:09 PM
I'm sorry but the KC Star has always been bad, going back to the 70's when there was a KC Times in the evening.


Times was the morning paper, Star was evening.

Times on Saturday, Star on Sunday.

Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 10:12 PM
Wouldn't it be great if Clark could fire Whitlock as well?



Absolutely not.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:13 PM
Times was the morning paper, Star was evening.

Times on Saturday, Star on Sunday.

You must be older than me because I was just a youngster, but I do remember the "Times".

:D

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:13 PM
Absolutely not.

Agree to disagree, young Padawan learner.

Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 10:16 PM
Agree to disagree, young Padawan learner.

I don't understand why anyone hates on Whitlock. His personal feud with King Carl has produced some of the most entertaining sportswriting in the history of mankind these last 10 years. I can't wait to see what he comes up with for the new regime. I hope he's got some gas left in the tank. This article makes me think he does. He sounds super passionate for someone who's an industry veteran.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't understand why anyone hates on Whitlock. His personal feud with King Carl has produced some of the most entertaining sportswriting in the history of mankind these last 10 years. I can't wait to see what he comes up with for the new regime. I hope he's got some gas left in the tank. This article makes me think he does. He sounds super passionate for someone who's an industry veteran.

It's easy to kick someone when they're down.

Personally, I don't find that "entertaining".

If the Chiefs are successful after hiring a new GM and coach, we'll find out if Jason can actually write and entertain.

IMO, the jury's definitely out.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:19 PM
I don't understand why anyone hates on Whitlock. His personal feud with King Carl has produced some of the most entertaining sportswriting in the history of mankind these last 10 years. I can't wait to see what he comes up with for the new regime. I hope he's got some gas left in the tank. This article makes me think he does. He sounds super passionate for someone who's an industry veteran.

Whitlock has had some time to build a name that has value. If he can figure out a way to market that name, he'll land on his feet even if newspapers fall on their asses.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:21 PM
Whitlock has had some time to build a name that has value. If he can figure out a way to market that name, he'll land on his feet even if newspapers fall on their asses.

As you're probably aware, newspapers make their dough via advertising, not subscription.

If Whitlock can draw readers, he'll always have a job, regardless of the media.

The question now is can he write and can he draw readers?

Smed1065
12-20-2008, 10:22 PM
You must be older than me because I was just a youngster, but I do remember the "Times".

:D

WEAK!

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:23 PM
You must be older than me because I was just a youngster, but I do remember the "Times".

:D

I'm pretty sure I'm older than you.

Long, long ago, the Times and the Star were independent newspapers. Then the Star bought the Times in 1900 or so. In my day ('70s and '80s) , the Times actually had more content during the week than the Star. The Star was huge on Sunday's though.

philfree
12-20-2008, 10:23 PM
Freedom of the press is the key to democracy wether it's print on a piece of paper or a computer monitor.

PhilFree:arrow:

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:26 PM
As you're probably aware, newspapers make their dough via advertising, not subscription.

If Whitlock can draw readers, he'll always have a job, regardless of the media.

The question now is can he write and can he draw readers?

In my opinion, yes. The man can write.

Can he find a way to draw readers for a profit?

I don't know. That question is still to be answered for a whole bunch of creative people. And they don't have a hell of a lot of time to figure it out.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:26 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm older than you.

Long, long ago, the Times and the Star were independent newspapers. Then the Star bought the Times in 1900 or so. In my day ('70s and '80s) , the Times actually had more content during the week than the Star. The Star was huge on Sunday's though.

I was just teasing.

All I remember about the Times was picking up the newspapers before shoveling driveways (I shoveled driveways after school from age 12 to 15 for money during the winter).

I honestly couldn't remember if the Times was delivered in the morning or the evening and had a 50/50 chance of being correct.

I guess I'll stay out of the casino tonight!

Smed1065
12-20-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm sorry but the KC Star has always been bad, going back to the 70's when there was a KC Times in the evening.

Whitlock is "mildly" entertaining and JoPo has been just too far out there for the regular reader during the past 2 years (too much baseball number crunching and "heart-warming" stories about people that no one cares about).

Wouldn't it be great if Clark could fire Whitlock as well?


ROFL :evil:

MIGHT CHECK FIRST.......oH u r RIGHT WRONG AS ALWAYS .. I am god why hate me?.....

BigRedChief
12-20-2008, 10:27 PM
Bail out newspapers? They are 8 track tapes in a digital world.

The internet is the truth bearer now. The government and those who seek to hide their misdeeds can't control the internet.

Democracy will be fine Mr. Whitlock.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:28 PM
In my opinion, yes. The man can write.

Can he find a way to draw readers for a profit?

I don't know. That question is still to be answered for a whole bunch of creative people. And they don't have a hell of a lot of time to figure it out.

Are newspapers really dying a quick death across the country?

I'm asking because I really don't know, not to be facetious.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:30 PM
MIGHT CHECK FIRST.......oH u r RIGHT WRONG AS ALWAYS .. I am god why hate me?.....

I love my stalkers
I love my stalkers
I love my stalkers 'cause they're just so freakin' cool

(sung to the tune of "We're in the Money")

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:31 PM
Are newspapers really dying a quick death across the country?

I'm asking because I really don't know, not to be facetious.

Yep. They've been on life support for years. The economy has caused a few big ones to go bankrupt, and layoffs at most of the others. Star had some major layoffs earlier this year. If the economy stays bad, a lot of them could go under in the next year or so.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Are newspapers really dying a quick death across the country?

I'm asking because I really don't know, not to be facetious.

The Chicago Tribune is about to declare bankruptcy. The Rocky Mountain News (Colorado's oldest newspaper at just under 150 years) will either be sold or closed in mid-January. The Miami Herald has gone through several rounds of layoffs. Knight-Ridder has done the same.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Classified advertising was always the bread and butter of daily newspapers. That advertising has migrated to e-bay, craigslist, monster, careerbuilder, etc.

The advertising is gone. Readership is evaporating because no one wants to wait 12 hours to know what the news is anymore. The nameplates have value, but there's not enough revenue to keep the dailies afloat online.

It's all but over for local newspapers.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:35 PM
Yep. They've been on life support for years. The economy has caused a few big ones to go bankrupt, and layoffs at most of the others. Star had some major layoffs earlier this year. If the economy stays bad, a lot of them could go under in the next year or so.

The Star I can understand; their writers are average (if not below average) at best. Plus, I honestly can't remember one piece of investigative journalism ever reaching national acclaim.

I'd be shocked if publications like USA Today, the NY or LA Times were in trouble and as BRC pointed out, the media is shifting.

I was a subscriber to USA Today back in 1990 while living in KC because the local paper was so piss poor.

IMHO, it's just capitalism at its finest.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:37 PM
The Chicago Tribune is about to declare bankruptcy. The Rocky Mountain News (Colorado's oldest newspaper at just under 150 years) will either be sold or closed in mid-January. The Miami Herald has gone through several rounds of layoffs. Knight-Ridder has done the same.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Classified advertising was always the bread and butter of daily newspapers. That advertising has migrated to e-bay, craigslist, monster, careerbuilder, etc.

The advertising is gone. Readership is evaporating because no one wants to wait 12 hours to know what the news is anymore. The nameplates have value, but there's not enough revenue to keep the dailies afloat online.

It's all but over for local newspapers.

Thanks for the info.

I have a feeling though that nice local papers (such as Phobia's new acquisition) are the wave of the future.

Major news can be found with the click of the mouse. Catching up on local events and your local high school sports can't at this point.

I think it's probably all just part of our ever-changing world.

Thanks again.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:37 PM
...IMHO, it's just capitalism at its finest.

Yes it is.

I'll still miss them.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:40 PM
The Star I can understand; their writers are average, if not below average, at best. Plus, I honestly can't remember one piece of investigative journalism ever reaching national acclaim.

I'd be shocked if publications like USA Today, the NY or LA Times were in trouble and as BRC pointed out, the media is shifting.

I've was a subscriber to USA Today back in 1990 while living in KC because the local paper was so piss poor.

IMHO, it's just capitalism at its finest.

Sorry, but you subscribing to USA Today doesn't really speak very well for your credibility to judge journalism. I'll read it when I'm traveling, but only because it's free and I have dead time. It's like the People Magazine of newspapers.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:41 PM
Yes it is.

I'll still miss them.

I get it.

But I'm sure that the exceptional writers will find work, so hopefully it won't be as bad as you think.

Hopefully.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:42 PM
Sorry, but you subscribing to USA Today doesn't really speak very well for your credibility to judge journalism. I'll read it when I'm traveling, but only because it's free and I have dead time. It's like the People Magazine of newspapers.

Well, back in the day, they really covered national stories. If you'll recall, it was difficult to find daily transactions in the local paper for the Chiefs and Royals, let alone the rest of the NFL. The Sports Page (save for Sunday) was shared with the Personals and crossword puzzles.

I agree, USA Today isn't what it was under Ted Turner but it used to be a great newspaper, stocked with great information.

BigRedChief
12-20-2008, 10:43 PM
We get more information about the Chiefs from this site than a Teicher column. Thats their issue. The "real" writerslike JOPO will survive.

The "journalist" is on life support. He/she will be replaced by something else on the internet still to be decided. A uber blogger or something thats trusted somehow.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the info.

I have a feeling though that nice local papers (such as Phobia's new acquisition) are the wave of the future.

Major news can be found with the click of the mouse. Catching up on local events and your local high school sports can't at this point.

I think it's probably all just part of our ever-changing world.

Thanks again.

Most major locals are on line. You can read everything in your local paper on-line 5 hours before it hits the streets. I think locals need to move to a model where they are internet only (maybe a biweekly print summary for old people). Maybe form a partnership with Craigslist or something for advertising $.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:43 PM
I get it.

But I'm sure that the exceptional writers will find work, so hopefully it won't be as bad as you think.

Hopefully.

I'm firmly convinced that the creative economy will always be a great asset to us.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:44 PM
Most major locals are on line. You can read everything in your local paper on-line 5 hours before it hits the streets. I think locals need to move to a model where they are internet only (maybe a biweekly print summary for old people). Maybe form a partnership with Craigslist or something for advertising $.

There's not enough money in it to staff a newsroom.

The whole business model will have to be reinvented or it will die.

Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 10:46 PM
We get more information about the Chiefs from this site than a Teicher column. Thats their issue. The "real" writerslike JOPO will survive.

The "journalist" is on life support. He/she will be replaced by something else on the internet still to be decided. A uber blogger or something thats trusted somehow.

The other part that kills guys like Teicher is a lot of their articles are just rehashes of the press conference. That stuff is available on the team website much faster than it hits the Star website.

I usually don't read Teicher's stuff unless it's a feature.

I don't know when teams started making press conference transcripts and video recaps available freely to the public but it hurt newspapers.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:47 PM
Well, back in the day, they really covered national stories. If you'll recall, it was difficult to find daily transactions in the local paper for the Chiefs and Royals, let alone the rest of the NFL. The Sports Page (save for Sunday) was shared with the Personals and crossword puzzles.

I agree, USA Today isn't what it was under Ted Turner but it used to be a great newspaper, stocked with great information.

Your memories don't match mine. I spent 20 minutes most days pouring over the Times sports section when the Royals or Chiefs were in season.

USA Today has always had the format of very short stories. Only 4 stories per day are allowed to make you turn the page. Two of those 4 were on the Sports page or the Entertainment section.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Your memories don't match mine.

Well, I am younger than you.

:p

Ari Chi3fs
12-20-2008, 10:50 PM
newspapers need to adapt to the online world more effectively. I have some ideas under wraps that will make moving forward so they can make continued revenue.

Look at HuffingtonPost... it has MILLIONS of subscribers, and it is an online issue only.

In times of quick technological advancements... your business needs to be nimble and aware.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 10:51 PM
There's not enough money in it to staff a newsroom.

The whole business model will have to be reinvented or it will die.

Yeah, you're right. You've obviously given this more thought than I have. How will we support journalists in the future? The internet and media by the people for the people is all well and good, but we need an equivalent of the traditional media to set the direction, ask the tough questions at the press conferences, and do the investigative leg work. Any ideas?

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 10:54 PM
newspapers need to adapt to the online world more effectively. I have some ideas under wraps that will make moving forward so they can make continued revenue.

Look at HuffingtonPost... it has MILLIONS of subscribers, and it is an online issue only.

In times of quick technological advancements... your business needs to be nimble and aware.

You might want to take those ideas out of wraps quickly, because the best minds in the business can't figure this out and they've been working on the problem for years.

You could be a wealthy guy.

heapshake
12-20-2008, 10:55 PM
I'd be shocked if publications like USA Today, the NY or LA Times were in trouble and as BRC pointed out, the media is shifting.


The LA Times had layoffs earlier this year and its parent company (Tribune Co.) has declared bankruptcy. The NY Times is mortgaging its building to cover costs and its stock has fallen 50% this year.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 10:59 PM
The LA Times had layoffs earlier this year and its parent company (Tribune Co.) has declared bankruptcy. The NY Times is mortgaging its building to cover costs and its stock has fallen 50% this year.

Then I stand corrected and am clearly out of touch with local newspapers.

Thank you.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 11:06 PM
Yeah, you're right. You've obviously given this more thought than I have. How will we support journalists in the future? The internet and media by the people for the people is all well and good, but we need an equivalent of the traditional media to set the direction, ask the tough questions at the press conferences, and do the investigative leg work. Any ideas?

Well, subscription-based content is out, simply because it only takes one subscriber to copy and paste onto a free site and the whole world has access. Copyright laws help somewhat, but there's no way content providers can keep up with the problem.

I can't see any way a wide-ranging news organization can keep up.

The business is going to have to fragment, and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of that. Practically no one wants to know what the local water board did at their meeting last night, while there's a large segment that wants to know what the latest talk is about the Chiefs' offensive line.

Local news will probably almost disappear for the average reader. There will still be a market for local business news, sports news, certain local lifestyle news. Will those segments ever pay? It all depends on revenue in, revenue out and the quality of what they can deliver.

Right now it doesn't look good.

BigRedChief
12-20-2008, 11:09 PM
Well, subscription-based content is out, simply because it only takes one subscriber to copy and paste onto a free site and the whole world has access. Copyright laws help somewhat, but there's no way content providers can keep up with the problem.

I can't see any way a wide-ranging news organization can keep up.

The business is going to have to fragment, and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of that. Practically no one wants to know what the local water board did at their meeting last night, while there's a large segment that wants to know what the latest talk is about the Chiefs' offensive line.

Local news will probably almost disappear for the average reader. There will still be a market for local business news, sports news, certain local lifestyle news. Will those segments ever pay? It all depends on revenue in, revenue out and the quality of what they can deliver.

Right now it doesn't look good.
I do see small town papers surviving. Mainly because its a niche market with low overhead.

Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 11:11 PM
I think you'll see the teams employing more writers and doing the jobs local media would have done.

DaneMcCloud
12-20-2008, 11:12 PM
I think you'll see the teams employing more writers and doing the jobs local media would have done.

Great.

Just what the world needs.

More Rufus Dawes' and Bob Gretz.

Unbiased journalism at its finest.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 11:13 PM
I think you'll see the teams employing more writers and doing the jobs local media would have done.

Perhaps, but you have to admit that the stories we'll get from employees of an organization might be vastly different than the stories we might get from an outside organization.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 11:16 PM
Great.

Just what the world needs.

More Rufus Dawes' and Bob Gretz.

Unbiased journalism at its finest.

Claythan's warning extends beyond the Chiefs and the Broncos.

Get ready for Exxon/Mobil (or whoever) to be writing their own stories as well, with less oversight from weighty voices.

Count Zarth
12-20-2008, 11:16 PM
Great.

Just what the world needs.

More Rufus Dawes' and Bob Gretz.

Unbiased journalism at its finest.

I see what you're saying, but I think those will go the way of the dodo, too, eventually, simply because fans won't accept it.

I bet there are already a few in-house columnists who don't toe the company line.

cdcox
12-20-2008, 11:17 PM
Well, subscription-based content is out, simply because it only takes one subscriber to copy and paste onto a free site and the whole world has access. Copyright laws help somewhat, but there's no way content providers can keep up with the problem.

I can't see any way a wide-ranging news organization can keep up.

The business is going to have to fragment, and we're going to have to deal with the consequences of that. Practically no one wants to know what the local water board did at their meeting last night, while there's a large segment that wants to know what the latest talk is about the Chiefs' offensive line.

Local news will probably almost disappear for the average reader. There will still be a market for local business news, sports news, certain local lifestyle news. Will those segments ever pay? It all depends on revenue in, revenue out and the quality of what they can deliver.

Right now it doesn't look good.

Funny you should mention the water board. The local utility recently erected a water tank in my town. For some people, the location of the water tank obstructs their scenic view, and there was a huge up roar in town when it went up. The utility company didn't go through their normal review process wit the city before erecting the tank, so its sudden appearance on the horizon was somewhat of a surprise to many citizens.

Although this situation did not arise because of a lack of media, the situation is somewhat similar in that the public didn't hear about it until after the fact. We will probably see many more situations of this type if local politicians know that no one is looking closely over their shoulders. There will be citizen watchdogs, but they normally have an agenda, lack credibility, and come off as crack pots. Local TV news normally doesn't dig this deep and spends very little time per day on hard news stories.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 11:19 PM
The old adage used to be: "Never pick a fight with a man who buys ink by the train load."

Those days may be over. Hell, we're already able to find sources for any bullshit we want to believe.

Just check out the DC forum if you need evidence.

ClevelandBronco
12-20-2008, 11:21 PM
Funny you should mention the water board. The local utility recently erected a water tank in my town. For some people, the location of the water tank obstructs their scenic view, and there was a huge up roar in town when it went up. The utility company didn't go through their normal review process wit the city before erecting the tank, so its sudden appearance on the horizon was somewhat of a surprise to many citizens.

Although this situation did not arise because of a lack of media, the situation is somewhat similar in that the public didn't hear about it until after the fact. We will probably see many more situations of this type if local politicians know that no one is looking closely over their shoulders. There will be citizen watchdogs, but they normally have an agenda, lack credibility, and come off as crack pots. Local TV news normally doesn't dig this deep and spends very little time per day on hard news stories.

Yeah. We had the same thing going on with a proposed cell tower in our neighborhood.

The whole thing was defeated with flyers and a web site.

tk13
12-20-2008, 11:26 PM
I think he makes some great points. The thing about BSU isn't supposed to make you care about Ball State, it's an example of how print media can delve deeper into a story to reveal the truth. Especially in a world where TV and radio is more like ESPN and about the headlines moreso than the details. I'm not sure if that's gonna help save newspapers though... but in reality they probably should be the backbone of journalism. But it's tough in a world where the internet allows you to get breaking news instantly.... and where having the information first is more important than it being in-depth.

Phobia
12-20-2008, 11:37 PM
I have a vested interest in newspapers. I incorrectly predicted when I was a dumb 20-something technologist that the internet would destroy print media by 2000.

Now my prediction is somewhat revised. As long as baby-boomers are out there and perhaps my generation as well there will be some demand for newspapers. But those newspapers must also master multi-media as well to survive. I think you'll see newspapers and televisions combine to reduce the need for manpower. The same guy you see doing a remote will also contribute to the printed story about it. Finally, these entities must be internet, social network, and PDA/Cell capable to survive. Ignore one and you'll fall behind the curve.

Fruit Ninja
12-21-2008, 12:08 AM
In my opinion, yes. The man can write.

Can he find a way to draw readers for a profit?

I don't know. That question is still to be answered for a whole bunch of creative people. And they don't have a hell of a lot of time to figure it out.

He can obviously draw something. Dude has had a gig with Espn and now with Fox Sports. He's even appeared on Rome is Burning and PTI.

I think he's a pretty good writer most of the time, but sometimes, its like he lets his emotions get the best of him and it feels like he gets to personal at times.

ClevelandBronco
12-21-2008, 12:44 AM
I have a vested interest in newspapers. I incorrectly predicted when I was a dumb 20-something technologist that the internet would destroy print media by 2000.

Now my prediction is somewhat revised. As long as baby-boomers are out there and perhaps my generation as well there will be some demand for newspapers. But those newspapers must also master multi-media as well to survive. I think you'll see newspapers and televisions combine to reduce the need for manpower. The same guy you see doing a remote will also contribute to the printed story about it. Finally, these entities must be internet, social network, and PDA/Cell capable to survive. Ignore one and you'll fall behind the curve.

I think this is a solid assessment of the situation.

And the more narrowly focused a media outlet can be, the better.

Extra Point
12-21-2008, 05:02 AM
If they keep the inferences and opinions in the editorial section, they'd be alright. Some of the reporters actually do objective reporting, like Dillon on the topics of ag vs. environment. If they stick to nuts and bolts journalism, great.

Kent Babb and David Boyce are the only sports journalists on the Star's payroll. I'd love to see Teicher or Candace what's-her-name go prior to either.

mikey23545
12-21-2008, 06:52 AM
Yeah, Jason Whitlock and the founding fathers just go together....

triple
12-21-2008, 07:53 AM
That is not written as a plea to buy our product. Itís written as a plea for you to understand you have a stake in the newspaper industry. Itís written as a plea for you to value and seek good, reliable, challenging and thought-provoking information.

It's too bad that in recent years those who write the information have earned themselves a reputation for bias and for reporting only in ways that fit their own agenda.

Newspapers are migrating to an online format, that was inevitable. There's more to it though.

People don't trust the "old media" - at least not nearly in the numbers or in the degree of confidence that they once did. And it's a reputation that is well deserved. The old media has earned it.

tmax63
12-21-2008, 08:00 AM
Major print media and TV has earned a new reputation for bias and lost the trust of the "old media". Since the internet has arose people can look for more news, less bias or at least bias in the direction they want. All for the cost of internet service instead of a subscription.

hawkchief
12-21-2008, 08:16 AM
I have no pity for any of the "news" outlets, print or otherwise that are failing somewhat due to their transparent liberal bias. While there are other factors working against them, i.e. the internet, most have sped up the process of their death by spewing their liberally-biased political opinion for years, and many people are fed up with it.

Rather than having fewer "journalists", "scratching for the truth", as Whitlock so selfishly laments, the Star and most other major newspapers, like the major network news, outlets have become shills for the Democratic Party. There is nothing more predictable than guessing the Star, NY Times, LA Times, Chicago Tribune etc, etc, are in support of liberal agendas across the board any time any election comes around.

I laughed out loud when Whitlock complains that we need newspapers to preserve our democracy, when they have done so much to fragment it, in their own efforts to sway our country to the left. I have zero pity for him, the Star, NBC, CBS, ABC etc. They are getting their just desserts.

triple
12-21-2008, 09:23 AM
I laughed out loud when Whitlock complains that we need newspapers to preserve our democracy, when they have done so much to fragment it, in their own efforts to sway our country to the left. I have zero pity for him, the Star, NBC, CBS, ABC etc. They are getting their just desserts.

precisely...

these people complain that without newspapers, we won't have anywhere to get information. but we lost that several miles back. they stopped giving us information long before my era.

now they give us boilerplate, biased opinion, and are practically just PR newswires for the candidates and agendas of their choice. what you find in the mainstream media that isn't political agenda-pushing is just sensationalism.

the days of virtuous journalism are gone. newspapers are what only tabloids would have dared be not long ago

DJ's left nut
12-21-2008, 09:35 AM
Newspapers have been 'making' news for the better part of the last 15 years (arguably longer than that).

Simply put: Democracy has moved beyond the newspaper. When we want news, we can generally find it in a more pure format somewhere online, rather than have to sift through the filter of a pack of ideological editors who feel the need to spoonfeed their version of the news to the masses.

The last electoral cycle did more to show how useless the newspapers have become than I thought possible. It really was a sickening display. These fossilized institutions can't die out fast enough as far as I'm concerned.

Adept Havelock
12-21-2008, 09:50 AM
Wouldn't it be great if Clark could fire Whitlock as well?


Yep. Can he fire Athan first? :)

As for those bemoaning "partisan" newspapers, in this country Newspapers have almost always been partisan. All the way back to the earliest broadsheets of Colonial times. There's nothing new about "editorial" content bleeding over into the rest of the paper. Hearst's "Yellow Journalism" ring a bell?

The myth of the "non-partisan" press of a bygone era is just that...a myth. :shrug:

64 Chief
12-21-2008, 10:37 AM
I will never spend another dime on a newspaper to read their political biases. Fatlock is as bad as any of the writers in trying to insert his liberal spin as sports' commentary. Long live Drudge and Lucianne.com. The last election was the final nail in the coffin of newspapers' objectivity. America will be better off without you. Get a real job producing something of value to fellow citizens.

JuicesFlowing
12-21-2008, 10:43 AM
Run for mayor, yo!

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/946541.html



Somewhere along my sophomore year of college, being a big-city newspaper columnist became my singular, professional obsession, replacing my childhood fantasy of playing in the National Football League.



Can he block on the right side?

hawkchief
12-21-2008, 10:45 AM
Yep. Can he fire Athan first? :)

As for those bemoaning "partisan" newspapers, in this country Newspapers have almost always been partisan. All the way back to the earliest broadsheets of Colonial times. There's nothing new about "editorial" content bleeding over into the rest of the paper. Hearst's "Yellow Journalism" ring a bell?

The myth of the "non-partisan" press of a bygone era is just that...a myth. :shrug:

Probably right, and it's taken the proliferation of more real news outlets on the internet and cable TV to fully expose just how slanted the mainstream media is in the U.S. It completely disgusts me how many people are constantly spoon-fed the left wing agenda by these groups and disturbing how many of our citizens are stupid enough to consume it as legitimate information.

It's no wonder douchebags like Al Franken can get elected to positions of influence in our country.

L.A. Chieffan
12-21-2008, 10:57 AM
I will never spend another dime on a newspaper to read their political biases. Fatlock is as bad as any of the writers in trying to insert his liberal spin as sports' commentary. Long live Drudge and Lucianne.com. The last election was the final nail in the coffin of newspapers' objectivity. America will be better off without you. Get a real job producing something of value to fellow citizens.

:spock:

L.A. Chieffan
12-21-2008, 11:00 AM
Print is dead.