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DT58HOF
12-21-2008, 02:20 PM
He is not an NFL QB no matter what some may think, he is a gifted athlete but not a QB

Fried Meat Ball!
12-21-2008, 02:23 PM
Again, this loss isn't Thigpen's fault. He had his problems, no doubt. And this game certainly not good, but when your offense puts up 31 points you shouldn't lose the game. The defense might as well not show up.

Coach
12-21-2008, 02:24 PM
He is not an NFL QB no matter what some may think, he is a gifted athlete but not a QB

Oh, so it's Thigpen's fault that they gave up 38 points?

Great analysis.

milkman
12-21-2008, 02:24 PM
Again, this loss isn't Thigpen's fault. He had his problems, no doubt. And this game certainly not good, but when your offense puts up 31 points you shouldn't lose the game. The defense might as well not show up.

No problem.

They didn't.

Micjones
12-21-2008, 02:25 PM
Thigpen certainly contributed to this loss today.
The bad decisions, his inaccuracy... I like the kid and I'm rooting for him, but he deserves a heaping helping of blame for what happened today.

King_Chief_Fan
12-21-2008, 02:25 PM
Again, this loss isn't Thigpen's fault. He had his problems, no doubt. And this game certainly not good, but when your offense puts up 31 points you shouldn't lose the game. The defense might as well not show up.

3 interceptions are not his fault? I am not blaming the whole game on him but he has fault.

milkman
12-21-2008, 02:27 PM
I'm pretty certain that if DT58HOF has an opinion, if I disagree, there's nearly a 100% chance that I'm right.

It scares the hell out of me if I have an opinion that isn't exactly the opposite.

So, my opinion of Thigpen scares the hell out of me.

Rausch
12-21-2008, 02:27 PM
I think at worst Pigpen is a really solid no 2 QB.

Get rid of him? Considering what we have now and the odds of us adding a rookie qb?

Stupid. Fucking stupid idea...

bishop_74
12-21-2008, 02:27 PM
Dude... it was 10 degrees, and the offense still put up big numbers. He obviously needs to improve, but lets see what compentent coaching provides before we write him off.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Dude... it was 10 degrees, and the offense still put up big numbers. He obviously needs to improve, but lets see what compentent coaching provides before we write him off.

A competent coaching staff won't run this offense.

Fried Meat Ball!
12-21-2008, 02:28 PM
3 interceptions are not his fault? I am not blaming the whole game on him but he has fault.

I didn't say he had no fault in his problems. Absolutely.

But, IMHO, this loss lies squarely on the defense's shoulders. If the score was 17-14, this would go on Thigpen. But when the defense can't keep the opposition under 30, that's on them.

bishop_74
12-21-2008, 02:29 PM
A competent coaching staff won't run this offense.

I firmly believe that it will improve the play of the players.

CHIEF4EVER
12-21-2008, 02:30 PM
Give the kid a break. He is just going through his growing pains like any other rookie (yes-he is technically a second year player but he is still a rookie for all intents and purposes). All he neds is some more work and coaching. He shows a lot of promise IMO.

OTOH....Herm and Cunther can follow Carl right out the door. The _efense was a complete joke today.

Mr. Arrowhead
12-21-2008, 02:31 PM
its a price of putting a rookie qb out there, you have to be patient. If we draft a guy in the first, he will do the same thing.

Oh Snap
12-21-2008, 02:31 PM
He is not an NFL QB no matter what some may think, he is a gifted athlete but not a QB

will you ppl ever stfu? Did you honestly think we could start a young, franchise QB who would play to absolute perfection?

Its a learning process. Its going to take time. He has matured and developed, he will continue to mature and develope. Give him a whole offseason, and training camp, then judge him after that season. Tony G seems to like him, as does bowe. I think their words bring more merit then yours.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 02:31 PM
Can we factor in that the "kid" is playing in an offense that no other coach would run for him and new staff won't run?

It's not like he's showing this great poise from under center or anything.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 02:32 PM
its a price of putting a rookie qb out there, you have to be patient. If we draft a guy in the first, he will do the same thing.

Will he actually be able to play in a pro style offense?

DeezNutz
12-21-2008, 02:33 PM
Will he actually be able to play in a pro style offense?

Of course. He's just a first-year starter. Look at what he did today. TD's throwing AND running. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. Actually, Thigpen compares favorably to almost all HOF QB's.

Edit: I have a Thigpen poster above my bed.

blueballs
12-21-2008, 02:35 PM
he has his rep disabled
for a good reason

RINGLEADER
12-21-2008, 02:37 PM
I'm fine with Thigpen as the QB. Guy engineered 500 yards of offense and 31 points. The Darling INT was not his fault but even if you hang it on him the defense does him no favors.

Since he was the starter the Chiefs have lost six games by 23 points. If they had won those games they'd be atop the AFC West. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you want to take a QB with the #2/#3 pick then I'm okay with it. I think this team with Thigpen is closer than some and our needs on defense are more pressing but if you want to take a QB that's OK too. It's worked out well for a lot of teams in similar situations.

I just think a lot of people around here are hard on a guy who is playing in his 8th or 9th game and playing without a defense. Has he shown the ability to come from behind? A couple times. Not as consistently as anyone would like but it would also be nice if we had a team that didn't require the QB to come from behind every frickin' week.

KChiefs1
12-21-2008, 02:37 PM
The shot of Thigpen's teeth chattering was awesome....dude was cold.

RINGLEADER
12-21-2008, 02:54 PM
1243 in first five games without Thigpen = 249 ypg (31st in today's stats)
3476 in ten games with Thigpen starting = 348 ypg (9th in today's stats)

61 points in five games without Thigpen = 12.2 ppg (32nd in today's stats)
225 points in ten games with Thigpen starting = 22.5 ppg (19th in today's stats)

I'm fine with letting Thigpen start next season. If you want to pick someone else high that's okay too but I'd head into next season with this offense and hopefully the defense can catch up.

JASONSAUTO
12-21-2008, 02:58 PM
A competent coaching staff won't run this offense.

why? this offense scored 4 Tds against a miami defense that hadnt given up 1 in 13 qtrs

dorseybowe
12-21-2008, 03:00 PM
1243 in first five games without Thigpen = 249 ypg (31st in today's stats)
3476 in ten games with Thigpen starting = 348 ypg (9th in today's stats)

61 points in five games without Thigpen = 12.2 ppg (32nd in today's stats)
225 points in ten games with Thigpen starting = 22.5 ppg (19th in today's stats)

I'm fine with letting Thigpen start next season. If you want to pick someone else high that's okay too but I'd head into next season with this offense and hopefully the defense can catch up.

The wins will come. This guy can move an offense.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 03:10 PM
Tyler Thigpen...

How many DROP interceptions does he have this year?

If the other team put some stick'em on his hands, People would be screaming for his head right now....

KCChiefsFan88
12-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Thigpen was absolute crap in the second half and melted down in the 4th quarter.

The Chiefs have some pieces in place, on the offensive line, with Bowe/Gonzalez, Bradley and Darling as non-#2 WRs and Charles as a Kevin Faulk type RB to run the spread offense effectively...

Insert Josh McDaniels as head coach (a guy who knows who to run a successful NFL-style spread offense), Matt Cassel at QB and a legit #2 WR such as Antonio Bryant and the Chiefs would have a playoff-caliber offense.

DT58HOF
12-22-2008, 12:07 AM
Yeah he has had some decent games since we changed to this goofy offense and he is in the shotgun all the time, we can't run this offense and compete in this league. When he is under center he drops back rushes his passes and floats them up in the air, he is a #2 QB at best.
Seriously he would be a great QB in the Arena league and would be very fun to watch but come on he is not a NFL QB

chiefzilla1501
12-22-2008, 12:51 AM
Sometimes fans are a walking contradiction. They get pissed when the team doesn't develop talent, and then get pissed when they don't light the world on fire right away.

Thigpen is what he is. He's not a guy we can bank our entire future on yet, but he's young enough and raw enough that he can develop into one. Young QBs make mistakes. If the Chiefs get Stafford, he'll probably make a lot of mistakes too. At the QB position, that's magnified.

He doesn't have the luxury that Flacco, Ryan, and Big Ben have had to not have to take over games. All three of those guys had a top 5 running game in their first season. Thigpen doesn't have a running game, he doesn't have a defense. He has had to win games on his own.

For the record, I don't think he's the answer. But I also realize that it's ridiculous to make a definitive judgment based on his limited experience and the complete lack of support he's had from his teammates.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:55 AM
Alot of the issues with Thigpen come from his limitations, what's the upside of a guy who only plays in shotgun?

chiefzilla1501
12-22-2008, 12:58 AM
Cassel/Bryant alone are not going to turn this offense around.

The spread offense has only been successful because it has masked the shortcomings of the supporting cast. They can't run plays under center because the pass blocking isn't good enough. They can't run the ball consistently and ESPECIALLY in short yardage/red zone situations because they lack the offensive line to do so. Cassel would get destroyed behind this offensive line. Keep in mind that the Pats have one of the better offensive lines in the NFL. Cassel can't dodge pressure like Thigpen could.

I'm not convinced at all that Cassel is any more the answer than Thigpen is. The difference is that he has an amazing o-line in front of him, one of the top 5 WR corps in the NFL, and a coaching staff that's run the spread for quite some time. The Chiefs, on the other hand, have poor blocking up-front, an inconsistent WR corps outside of Gonzalez, and a limited playbook (seeing that the offense was developed in midseason). I think Thigpen is much more of an answer than Cassel. I'm not convinced at all that he could succeed if you take him away from that stellar supporting cast. For that matter, that's my concern about McDaniel too.

I would much rather the Chiefs take a promising QB from the draft and develop the hell out of him.

Thigpen was absolute crap in the second half and melted down in the 4th quarter.

The Chiefs have some pieces in place, on the offensive line, with Bowe/Gonzalez, Bradley and Darling as non-#2 WRs and Charles as a Kevin Faulk type RB to run the spread offense effectively...

Insert Josh McDaniels as head coach (a guy who knows who to run a successful NFL-style spread offense), Matt Cassel at QB and a legit #2 WR such as Antonio Bryant and the Chiefs would have a playoff-caliber offense.

chiefzilla1501
12-22-2008, 12:59 AM
Alot of the issues with Thigpen come from his limitations, what's the upside of a guy who only plays in shotgun?

Until we have an offensive line capable of protecting a QB under center, we'll never know if it's truly a limitation either.

windwalker
12-22-2008, 06:04 AM
Why don't they just trade Thigpen. After this year, I think there would be quite a few teams in the NFL that would take him.

old_geezer
12-22-2008, 06:28 AM
Until we have an offensive line capable of protecting a QB under center, we'll never know if it's truly a limitation either.


QFT. Untill we went to the spread offense with Thigpen most of the talk on this board was how pathetic our O-line was and how it got our QB's all killed. Since we went to the spread most of the O-line talk has stopped (some even talk of how good our O-line has become ROFL) and our offense has improved. This offense is best for Thigpen now, but more importantly it hides the glaring faults of our O-line.

I too want to see Thigpen under center (and I think it will happen next year when we have a full training camp to prepare him and hopefully another offensive lineman or two to help out).


I wouldn't pass on our QBOTF if he's there when we draft, but I sure wouldn't reach just to draft a QB either.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 06:37 AM
500: Number of total yards gained by the Chiefs yesterday.
31: Number of points scored against a D that had not allowed a TD in 13 quarters.
1: Tyler Thigpen's ranking in QB rushing yards.
8: Games Chiefs lost by 7 points or less in 2008.
32: Rank of the Chiefs in total defense.
-12: Temperature on the field with windchill factored in.
10: Total number of games Thigpen has started in the NFL.
18: Number of rookies on the Chiefs roster.
32,000,000: Amount of dollars Chiefs were under the salary cap by in 2008.

Can anyone hang this on Thigpen?

yeti
12-22-2008, 06:47 AM
QFT. Untill we went to the spread offense with Thigpen most of the talk on this board was how pathetic our O-line was and how it got our QB's all killed. Since we went to the spread most of the O-line talk has stopped (some even talk of how good our O-line has become ROFL) and our offense has improved. This offense is best for Thigpen now, but more importantly it hides the glaring faults of our O-line.

I too want to see Thigpen under center (and I think it will happen next year when we have a full training camp to prepare him and hopefully another offensive lineman or two to help out).


I wouldn't pass on our QBOTF if he's there when we draft, but I sure wouldn't reach just to draft a QB either.


The o line must be fixed this offseason otherwise i don't care who you put back there under center they will get killed just like croyle/huard/thigpen did. Now they would last longer but they will get killed. brady manning would look like shit if they had to play behind our line in a "pro style" offense. masking the problems on the o line is the greater issue not whether we are running an O out of a shotgun or under center.

Red Beans
12-22-2008, 06:52 AM
Think about the marked improvement Thigpen could have with one full offseason as the no 1. Hell, Chan is literally making this up as we go along. The guy deserves one full year of prep time as the number one QB. Then we can all start making judgements.

luv
12-22-2008, 07:05 AM
Thigpen was absolute crap in the second half and melted down in the 4th quarter.
The Chiefs have some pieces in place, on the offensive line, with Bowe/Gonzalez, Bradley and Darling as non-#2 WRs and Charles as a Kevin Faulk type RB to run the spread offense effectively...

Insert Josh McDaniels as head coach (a guy who knows who to run a successful NFL-style spread offense), Matt Cassel at QB and a legit #2 WR such as Antonio Bryant and the Chiefs would have a playoff-caliber offense.

Agree with the bolded part. It's as if he can't get a first down to save his life, especially in the 4th quarter. I like the kid, and I hope we can develop him.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 07:15 AM
LETS see sunday it was THE COLDEST game in miami history, now i know miami plays alot of games in warm weather, but they also have away games at NY at NE and at buff so you would think they would play some cold ones, so maybe just maybe that contributed to some of thigpens woes. the long balls looked as though he was getting no GRIP on the ball

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:18 AM
LETS see sunday it was THE COLDEST game in miami history, now i know miami plays alot of games in warm weather, but they also have away games at NY at NE and at buff so you would think they would play some cold ones, so maybe just maybe that contributed to some of thigpens woes. the long balls looked as though he was getting no GRIP on the ball

I saw a closeup of Tyler in the 2nd half and his teeth were chattering. As a Carolina boy, he'll have to learn to handle the arctic chill, but I think the 2nd half he was really rattled by the weather. To be expected for a young, southern player. Not the immovable obstacle.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 07:21 AM
I saw a closeup of Tyler in the 2nd half and his teeth were chattering. As a Carolina boy, he'll have to learn to handle the arctic chill, but I think the 2nd half he was really rattled by the weather. To be expected for a young, southern player. Not the immovable obstacle.

its called EXPERIENCE, also the ones on here who bash him for throwing into 2x coverage are the same ones who laud stafford for throwing to covered receivers and bash bradford for throwing to open guys

InChiefsHell
12-22-2008, 07:30 AM
Thiggy is what he is, a scrambling QB who can kill you with bootlegs or designed runs. If that's the kind of QB we want, then we'll have to design and offense around him, which we have done. The problem in the 2nd half I think is that defenses make adjustments, and our offense cannot adjust to that. Maybe a full off season will take care of that, who knows. But being down on Thiggy for throwing 3 pics in a game where we put way too much pressure on him to throw to begin with is kinda silly. Why did LJ only have 12 rushes? Sheot, he obviously was able to run the ball on them and that would have taken some pressure off of Thigpen as well.

I just like the kid's spirit and heart, and I'd love to see him develop into something really good for us. But the new GM will make that call once he hires a new coaching staff. So we'll see I guess...

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 07:31 AM
I haven't watched the game, but it makes sense that the more you ask a young QB to throw the ball in adverse conditions the more mistakes the kid is going to make. 41 pass attempts in 12 degree weather with 20 mph winds? Look at how many times Flacco is asked to throw the ball. LJ only getting 12 carries?

whatsmynameagain
12-22-2008, 07:58 AM
He is not an NFL QB no matter what some may think, he is a gifted athlete but not a QB

your and idiot!

i really think thigpen threw his arm out yesterday. he was throwing long ones early into the wind and often. his arm strength at the end of the game showed on the sideline passes that were coming up 10 yards short.

chiefzilla1501
12-22-2008, 08:40 AM
your and idiot!

i really think thigpen threw his arm out yesterday. he was throwing long ones early into the wind and often. his arm strength at the end of the game showed on the sideline passes that were coming up 10 yards short.

Agreed. That's what happens when you ask a young QB to throw 40 passes in a game.

I also think Thigpen needs to learn to throw with a glove. That will come with practice.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 08:45 AM
I haven't watched the game, but it makes sense that the more you ask a young QB to throw the ball in adverse conditions the more mistakes the kid is going to make. 41 pass attempts in 12 degree weather with 20 mph winds? Look at how many times Flacco is asked to throw the ball. LJ only getting 12 carries?

:clap::clap::clap:

Braincase
12-22-2008, 08:50 AM
I think a comparison should be done. Let's compare Thigpen to some other quarterbacks in their first years as full-time starters and see how he compares. TD's, Ints, Yardage, Percent Completions, sacks and rushing yardage. Let's bring a little objectivity to this little debate. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess our young man doesn't look too bad in comparison.

Rausch
12-22-2008, 09:01 AM
I think a comparison should be done. Let's compare Thigpen to some other quarterbacks in their first years as full-time starters and see how he compares. TD's, Ints, Yardage, Percent Completions, sacks and rushing yardage. Let's bring a little objectivity to this little debate. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess our young man doesn't look too bad in comparison.

How about we just compare him to the guy he'll be competing with next season?

healthpellets
12-22-2008, 09:03 AM
your and idiot!


nah. i think you're the idiot.

Darth CarlSatan
12-22-2008, 09:05 AM
He is not an NFL QB no matter what some may think, he is a gifted athlete but not a QB

Uh, the red jersey says otherwise. Moving on.

Oh, so it's Thigpen's fault that they gave up 38 points?

Great analysis.

Herm + Gun + "Wave 'em on through nofense" = 2nd Half disaster/meltdown.
Moving on.

I think at worst Pigpen is a really solid no 2 QB.

Get rid of him? Considering what we have now and the odds of us adding a rookie qb?

Stupid. Fucking stupid idea...

True. Good bye Huard and Croyle, hello QB draft pick, keep Gray as your old fogey, and Thigpen starts.
Moving On.

Dude... it was 10 degrees, and the offense still put up big numbers. He obviously needs to improve, but lets see what compentent coaching provides before we write him off.

Would that be head coaching or good bye Dickie Curl? Or both?
You'll need both. Moving On.

A competent coaching staff won't run this offense.

True. No franchise with a desire to be the best is going to run this piece-meal, Mickey Mouse bullshit. The Gailey/Edwards, 90/10 Offense is a stop-gap and nothing more. Moving On.

1243 in first five games without Thigpen = 249 ypg (31st in today's stats)
3476 in ten games with Thigpen starting = 348 ypg (9th in today's stats)

61 points in five games without Thigpen = 12.2 ppg (32nd in today's stats)
225 points in ten games with Thigpen starting = 22.5 ppg (19th in today's stats)

I'm fine with letting Thigpen start next season. If you want to pick someone else high that's okay too but I'd head into next season with this offense and hopefully the defense can catch up.

The numbers don't lie, but the losses don't help either. Thiggy is a solid #2. And for a guy who made it to the NFL with his College background, it's nothing to be ashamed of.




This.

lazepoo
12-22-2008, 09:07 AM
The shot of Thigpen's teeth chattering was awesome....dude was cold.

I think a lot of people are discounting how much it would suck to play a game in that weather in glorified underwear. I don't care how many pairs of under armour he had on... that would be a miserable situation to play in, especially when our throw to run ratio was 2:1. The ball is heavier, you tire more quickly, and it was windy as hell. Given those circumstances from a first-year starter, this game doesn't do anything to make me think that Thigpen doesn't deserve a chance to compete for the starting job next year regardless of who we draft (and I do think we'll draft a QB and bring one in from free agency as well).

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 09:32 AM
I think a comparison should be done. Let's compare Thigpen to some other quarterbacks in their first years as full-time starters and see how he compares. TD's, Ints, Yardage, Percent Completions, sacks and rushing yardage. Let's bring a little objectivity to this little debate. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess our young man doesn't look too bad in comparison.


I looked at the last 7 games for Thigpen, Ryan and Flacco.

Pass Attempts per game:

Thigpen: 41, 38, 31, 22, 32, 28, 41 - avg of 33.3
Ryan: 23, 33, 27, 23, 33, 23, 24 = avg of 26.5
Flacco: 23, 33, 26, 29, 21, 28, 25 = avg of 26.4

Two games this year Ryan was asked to throw 40+ times his QB ratings were 60.8 and 68.1.
When Flacco threw the 33 attempts and 28 attempts per game his ratings were 58.1 and 22.2.

If you ask young QB's to carry the team and throw the ball a lot they make mistakes.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 10:04 AM
I looked at the last 7 games for Thigpen, Ryan and Flacco.

Pass Attempts per game:

Thigpen: 41, 38, 31, 22, 32, 28, 41 - avg of 33.3
Ryan: 23, 33, 27, 23, 33, 23, 24 = avg of 26.5
Flacco: 23, 33, 26, 29, 21, 28, 25 = avg of 26.4

Two games this year Ryan was asked to throw 40+ times his QB ratings were 60.8 and 68.1.
When Flacco threw the 33 attempts and 28 attempts per game his ratings were 58.1 and 22.2.

If you ask young QB's to carry the team and throw the ball a lot they make mistakes.

Rep.

blueballs
12-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Gailey made chicken salad out of chicken shit
eat it while it's hot
because it won't stay made for another meal

penguinz
12-22-2008, 10:13 AM
Of course. He's just a first-year starter. Look at what he did today. TD's throwing AND running. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. Actually, Thigpen compares favorably to almost all HOF QB's.

Edit: I have a Thigpen poster above my bed.He is not a Pro QB.