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Color Red
12-21-2008, 09:06 PM
It can be unusual for a losing team to lose several games the same way. The Chiefs have this situation.

This team often has had productive games and leads through the first half. They have often experienced teams countering their game in the second half and winning. There are obvious points about playing a complete game and holding on to a lead, but I have these two observations. What do you think?

1. There's something about Thigpen's or the Chiefs' game for which successful teams are making effective halftime adjustments and beating them. What are these adjustments? What are they adjusting to and changing to be more effective with in the second halves of games?

2. If you have a lead at half time you are delusional if you think your team only needs to more or less keep doing what they did in the first half in order to win. My observation--it is only an uneducated observation--is that Herm is poor on game day, and specifically in his or his staff's ability to make or anticipate adjustments in the game at hand. A team has all week to prepare for a game. But specifically a team has twelve minutes to prepare for a second half. As I have suggested, an adjustment may be understand and accounting for the adjustments the other team is making. Never mind close scores. Look at the stats and points. Whatever the Chiefs are doing to prepare for the second half is failing miserably.

Deberg_1990
12-21-2008, 09:12 PM
A couple of things:

Thigpen is wildly hot and cold. Hes basically inaccurate. He threw for alot of yards, but he was less than a 50% passer today. Not good enough.

Watch the really good QB's play. They make mistakes, but they also hit those "KEY" 3 or 4 passes a game to seal the game. Pennington did it today a few times.


Their game plans are all over the map. Why did we fling the ball around so much today in those conditions? Why did LJ only have 12 carries when he was running well??

Baffling.....

DaWolf
12-21-2008, 09:15 PM
Yeah, I can name three to four games late this year that I do not understand why, with a lead, we did not start running the ball. To win in this league you have to be able to wear down another team's defense and impose your will on it. Frankly right now our offense is not tough. Defenses can come out in the second half and still have that energy against us. We are a soft team on both sides of the ball, and the results show it...

Ebolapox
12-21-2008, 09:17 PM
wait, herm is a bad game-day coach? FUCK. I'd have had NO clue if you didn't bring it up! thanks, brah!

Mecca
12-21-2008, 09:18 PM
When they decided to play offense like this they basically decided they were going to pass about 2-3 times more than they ran.

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-21-2008, 09:18 PM
wait, herm is a bad game-day coach? ****. I'd have had NO clue if you didn't bring it up! thanks, brah!

He could have just said water is wet.

unothadeal
12-21-2008, 09:19 PM
wait, herm is a bad game-day coach? ****. I'd have had NO clue if you didn't bring it up! thanks, brah!

Is that you in your avatar?

Deberg_1990
12-21-2008, 09:19 PM
When they decided to play offense like this they basically decided they were going to pass about 2-3 times more than they ran.


Yea. pretty much. Its pretty obvious isnt it? LJ has basically been phased out of alot of gameplans.


I guess thats understandable from a management perspective of him. They basically only give him the ball because of his contract.

Why dont they ever throw to him?? Hes been a decent pass catcher in the past.

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 09:22 PM
Watch the really good QB's play. They make mistakes, but they also hit those "KEY" 3 or 4 passes a game to seal the game. Pennington did it today a few times.


That's basically my hangup and has been all along.

Thigpen racks up a lot of yards. But most of it comes via throws any average quarterback makes. Not enough of it comes from throws elite quarterbacks make.

aturnis
12-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Watch the really good QB's play. They make mistakes, but they also hit those "KEY" 3 or 4 passes a game to seal the game. Pennington did it today a few times.

I agree completely. I think Eli Manning is this type of guy. Though his first 3.5 seasons he looked pretty damned bad. It took until halfway through his fourth season for things to click and now look at him.

Doesn't developing mean you have to give a guy a chance? Not saying Thigpen is our guy, or even that I want him to be, but what happens if we get Stafford and he stinks it up his first three seasons? Chiefs fans call for his head. No way we as fans have the patience to develop one, and it shows with Thigpen.

Deberg_1990
12-21-2008, 09:24 PM
Thigpen racks up a lot of yards. But most of it comes via throws any average quarterback makes. Not enough of it comes from throws elite quarterbacks make.


Might be the best thing you have ever posted on this board. :)


Your exactly right.

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 09:25 PM
No way we as fans have the patience to develop one, and it shows with Thigpen.

I think you'd see people showing more patience if he was making jaw-dropping plays, showing flashes of potential with every game.

Mostly I see him making exciting plays with his legs. Once every other game he'll make a throw that makes me say HOLY SHIT NICE THROW. That's not often enough in an offense that throws throws throws.

We have two good wide receivers who get separation. They aren't involved enough because Thigpen is limited.

OnTheWarpath58
12-21-2008, 09:28 PM
I agree completely. I think Eli Manning is this type of guy. Though his first 3.5 seasons he looked pretty damned bad. It took until halfway through his fourth season for things to click and now look at him.

Doesn't developing mean you have to give a guy a chance? Not saying Thigpen is our guy, or even that I want him to be, but what happens if we get Stafford and he stinks it up his first three seasons? Chiefs fans call for his head. No way we as fans have the patience to develop one, and it shows with Thigpen.

Three SEASONS?

You mean three GAMES?

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 09:29 PM
I think you'd see people showing more patience if he was making jaw-dropping plays, showing flashes of potential with every game.

Mostly I see him making exciting plays with his legs. Once every other game he'll make a throw that makes me say HOLY SHIT NICE THROW. That's not often enough in an offense that throws throws throws.

We have two good wide receivers who get separation. They aren't involved enough because Thigpen is limited.

Thigpen kinda uses that Huard QB way of thinking... Just chuck that mother to TG no matter what the coverage is...

Thigpen could easily have 10-15 more picks this year. There were probably 6-8 that should of been picked today...

Deberg_1990
12-21-2008, 09:30 PM
Thigpen kinda uses that Huard QB way of thinking... Just chuck that mother to TG no matter what the coverage is...

Thigpen could easily have 10-15 more picks this year. There were probably 6-8 that should of been picked today...

Hes gotten incredibly lucky with a few of his deep throws. Like that one today that Bradley made, but just sat there for 5 minutes waiting for the ball to drop.

Ebolapox
12-21-2008, 09:33 PM
Is that you in your avatar?

for the umpteenth time.

fuck no. it isn't. it's some dude who posted a pic (not sure if it was actually HIM) bragging about bagging a MMF threesome with his girl and some guy.

I cropped the picture and use it as an avvy because it makes me chuckle.

aturnis
12-21-2008, 09:34 PM
Three SEASONS?

You mean three GAMES?

Regarding Stafford?

DeezNutz
12-21-2008, 09:34 PM
for the umpteenth time.

**** no. it isn't. it's some dude who posted a pic (not sure if it was actually HIM) bragging about bagging a MMF threesome with his girl and some guy.

I cropped the picture and use it as an avvy because it makes me chuckle.

It's ok that it's you, brah.

unothadeal
12-21-2008, 09:35 PM
for the umpteenth time.

**** no. it isn't. it's some dude who posted a pic (not sure if it was actually HIM) bragging about bagging a MMF threesome with his girl and some guy.

I cropped the picture and use it as an avvy because it makes me chuckle.

Oh, cool. That's not me in mine.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Thigpen kinda uses that Huard QB way of thinking... Just chuck that mother to TG no matter what the coverage is...

Thigpen could easily have 10-15 more picks this year. There were probably 6-8 that should of been picked today...

The law of averages usually evens those things out over time...if the percentage of passes gets picked off that should, people will start losing it. He's had very Huard esq from Herms first year luck, it won't continue forever.

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 09:39 PM
I applaud Chan for making his 2 quarter chicken salad, but find it funny that he took the blame for the 3 runs up the gut that didn't result in a 1st with the game on the line in NY, and today runs a rollout deep in your own territory on 4th and 1 with the game on the line and it falls short. I know, Dfense, yada, yada. That still doesn't explain the baffelling offensive play calling in the 2nd half over the last few games. I know his sctick was 'you'll never see the same game plan twice', but damn this guy is fucking us when it counts.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 09:42 PM
I applaud Chan for making his 2 quarter chicken salad, but find it funny that he took the blame for the 3 runs up the gut that didn't result in a 1st with the game on the line in NY, and today runs a rollout deep in your own territory on 4th and 1 with the game on the line and it falls short. I know, Dfense, yada, yada. That still doesn't explain the baffelling offensive play calling in the 2nd half over the last few games. I know his sctick was 'you'll never see the same game plan twice', but damn this guy is fucking us when it counts.

When the game is close late the Chiefs resemble the guy coaching on the sideline, that's the easiest way to put it.

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 09:43 PM
Man, there was NOTHING wrong with that playcall, guys.

This line can't drive block for shit when opposing teams stack the box.

Good call. Poorly executed.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 09:44 PM
for the umpteenth time.

**** no. it isn't. it's some dude who posted a pic (not sure if it was actually HIM) bragging about bagging a MMF threesome with his girl and some guy.

I cropped the picture and use it as an avvy because it makes me chuckle.

So its really you?

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 09:45 PM
When the game is close late the Chiefs resemble the guy coaching on the sideline, that's the easiest way to put it.

I would believe that if the Chiefs were running LJ up Niswanger ass, but this shit is on Chan, seriously.

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 09:46 PM
Man, there was NOTHING wrong with that playcall, guys.

This line can't drive block for shit when opposing teams stack the box.

Good call. Poorly executed.

Its not about that 1 call, its about the 2nd half of football games lately.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 09:47 PM
Man, there was NOTHING wrong with that playcall, guys.

This line can't drive block for shit when opposing teams stack the box.

Good call. Poorly executed.

The play calling has been non existant at best, the players fail to execute in the 2nd half, This team under Herm is just a totally different team in the second half...

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 09:48 PM
I would believe that if the Chiefs were running LJ up Niswanger ass, but this shit is on Chan, seriously.

at this point Chan can go as well...

Just need to finish the total house cleaning...

Mecca
12-21-2008, 09:49 PM
I would believe that if the Chiefs were running LJ up Niswanger ass, but this shit is on Chan, seriously.

He's a choker...when this team is any sort of pressure situation late in a game they completely fold.

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 09:50 PM
He's a choker...when this team is any sort of pressure situation late in a game they completely fold.

Who's a choker? Herm, Chan, Thigpen, all of them?

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 09:50 PM
Its not about that 1 call, its about the 2nd half of football games lately.

I blame Thigpen more than Chan. He is limited in what he can do. Makes it easy to adjust to the Chiefs' offense.

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 09:55 PM
I blame Thigpen more than Chan. He is limited in what he can do. Makes it easy to adjust to the Chiefs' offense.

The total abandon of the run in the 2nd half is not on Thigpen. If a coach recognizes the limitations of his qb, then he runs the ball with the lead in the 2nd half.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 09:58 PM
The total abandon of the run in the 2nd half is not on Thigpen. If a coach recognizes the limitations of his qb, then he runs the ball with the lead in the 2nd half.

Well Thigpen is the reason they are constantly in shotgun which is going to make you a passing team.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Who's a choker? Herm, Chan, Thigpen, all of them?

All of them..

Herm historically has been a choker and it hasnt changed...

Chan, well GT people will say he is a choker and folds under pressure...

Thigpen is a QB from Coastal Carolina... He shouldnt even be on the field at times, but our staff put all there eggs on Brokie and Downfield BigQuitter...

Ebolapox
12-21-2008, 10:01 PM
So its really you?

you shut your fucking mouth. goddamn beakers!

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 10:02 PM
Thigpen kinda uses that Huard QB way of thinking... Just chuck that mother to TG no matter what the coverage is...

Thigpen could easily have 10-15 more picks this year. There were probably 6-8 that should of been picked today...

I don't think that's necessarily it.

He seems more comfortable throwing to Tony over the middle of the field because it's a shorter, easier throw.

He seems very uncomfortable throwing the ball outside the numbers.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:02 PM
All of them..

Herm historically has been a choker and it hasnt changed...

Chan, well GT people will say he is a choker and folds under pressure...

Thigpen is a QB from Coastal Carolina... He shouldnt even be on the field at times, but our staff put all there eggs on Brokie and Downfield BigQuitter...

Speaking of that, it sure was great judgment to go into this year thinking Croyle was the guy eh?

KCUnited
12-21-2008, 10:04 PM
Well Thigpen is the reason they are constantly in shotgun which is going to make you a passing team.

I won't argue Thigpen's shortcomings. But the playcalling in the 2nd half of ballgames is suspect.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:06 PM
I won't argue Thigpen's shortcomings. But the playcalling in the 2nd half of ballgames is suspect.

It's partially because it's a gimmick offense with a QB who is so wildly inconsistent and wildly inaccurate you don't know what you'll get then mix that with being in shotgun constantly you aren't going to be able to milk the clock.

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 10:07 PM
I won't argue Thigpen's shortcomings. But the playcalling in the 2nd half of ballgames is suspect.

There's not really much the Chiefs can do on offense.

They're good at running from the spread in limited doses, and throwing a lot of short routes out of the spread.

They suck at running from traditional sets, and they suck at throwing the ball down the field.

Today we got lucky because we reeled in a couple jump balls and Charles broke one loose. Doesn't always happen.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:11 PM
Right now the Chiefs are just a bad team all around they lack talent everywhere.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:12 PM
you shut your ****ing mouth. goddamn beakers!

ROFL

Ebolapox
12-21-2008, 10:13 PM
Right now the Chiefs are just a bad team all around they lack talent everywhere.

naw, really? fuck. guess I should cancel my flight and hotel room for the super bowl, eh?

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:13 PM
Speaking of that, it sure was great judgment to go into this year thinking Croyle was the guy eh?

Yeah I was on the Croyle bandwagon... Was the navigator... Well that didnt work out so well... It was a bummer, I was pulling for the kid, but hes done...

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:15 PM
I don't think that's necessarily it.

He seems more comfortable throwing to Tony over the middle of the field because it's a shorter, easier throw.

He seems very uncomfortable throwing the ball outside the numbers.


very comfortable throwing the ball outside the numbers? I guess if 10 feet over the head of the receiver is comfortable. Then he is relaxing in his snuggy....


Regardless of the coverage. 3,4,5,19 guys around TG, he will throw into severe coverage to get the ball to his buddy TG....


And yes, just imagine if half the balls that were dropped by opposing D's ( and I know it happens in the NFL to other QB's ) there would be a good chance Thiggy is getting his ass railed by half or more of this board...

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:17 PM
Right now the Chiefs are just a bad team all around they lack talent everywhere.

Theres some talent at places... But a new GM and HC will have to turn this roster over by at least 1/3 or more to make them competitive in 2009...

Herm is fucking stupid to think that 90-95% of this roster is set...

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:19 PM
naw, really? fuck. guess I should cancel my flight and hotel room for the super bowl, eh?

Well go tell that to people who seem to think the offense would make it to the playoffs if the defense was alright.

Extra Point
12-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Right now the Chiefs are just a bad team all around they lack talent everywhere.

Run-on sentence much, Mr. english critic?

Ebolapox
12-21-2008, 10:33 PM
Well go tell that to people who seem to think the offense would make it to the playoffs if the defense was alright.

there's a shit-ton of dumbasses on here. it's true for any message board, but myopia seems to run rampant.

bigbucks24
12-21-2008, 11:01 PM
The play calling has been non existant at best, the players fail to execute in the 2nd half, This team under Herm is just a totally different team in the second half...

To me, it looks like the same team in the second half. It's just that the other teams seem to be adjusting and the Chiefs don't.

Chief_in_Commander
12-22-2008, 09:34 AM
I just want to know who is teaching or taught Thigpen how to throw the long ball. He throws every Go route like it's a damn fade route. He needs to step into the Go route and lead his receiever down the field and not just float it up 10 yards short like does every week. There is a difference in a fade and a go or fly route but he throws them all the same, drives me crazy.

Mr. Laz
12-22-2008, 09:41 AM
good 1st half, bad 2nd half


bad coaching

cookster50
12-22-2008, 10:34 AM
Who's a choker? Herm, Chan, Thigpen, all of them?

LJ (when a woman is around, bada bump)

Mr. Flopnuts
12-22-2008, 10:48 AM
Is that you in your avatar?

for the umpteenth time.

fuck no. it isn't. it's some dude who posted a pic (not sure if it was actually HIM) bragging about bagging a MMF threesome with his girl and some guy.

I cropped the picture and use it as an avvy because it makes me chuckle.

It's ok that it's you, brah.

Oh, cool. That's not me in mine.

That's me in my avatar.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 10:56 AM
naw, really? fuck. guess I should cancel my flight and hotel room for the super bowl, eh?

Hell no. If you have any game, you'll go there, find a way to sneak into the Playboy party, and bang a Playmate.

Deberg_1990
12-22-2008, 11:03 AM
I just want to know who is teaching or taught Thigpen how to throw the long ball. He throws every Go route like it's a damn fade route. He needs to step into the Go route and lead his receiever down the field and not just float it up 10 yards short like does every week. There is a difference in a fade and a go or fly route but he throws them all the same, drives me crazy.

He has bad mechanics. He doesnt know anything about footwork because hes never been taught. All he knows is the spread.

Gailey has done a great job with the leftovers he was given and tailored an offense out of neccesity. That doesnt mean i want to make it my offense of the future.

The Chiefs recievers have decent stats because we wing the ball 40+ times a game.

Stats are not everything.