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KCJohnny
12-21-2008, 10:20 PM
OK, I'm in Korea, I didn't see the whole game, just the highlights, the post-game presser and the box score, so I did not suffer the kind of punch-in-the-gut let down in real time as most of you did as we once again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I would like to offer the following observations and insights from the perspective of a blind, deceived homer.

1. Miami hadn't given up a TD in 3 straight games. We rolled 'em for 500 yards and 31 points in weather conditions that usually produce a 13-9 type game.

2. We have lost 8 games (55%) by 7 points or less. That means we are right >< there. With 18 rookies on the roster, its only going to get better. Next year we are the '08 Dolphins. Bet on it.

3. Several key positions have been sewn up that will last this team a loooong time: WR, FB, OLT, RB(s), TE, CB, K, .05back, etc... and I might add QB and DT (Thiggy + Dorsey).

4. The key obstacle to deep and lasting change has been removed: thanks for the memories, Carl Peterson.

5. A new GM is a great thing if its the right leader. We could also Matt Millen ourselves into perpetual football agony. Stay tuned.

6. While I admit to the possibility of a HC change, I think that would be a bad decision. Herm seems to have a gift for developing the young players and motivating his team. If the Chiefs don't win 8-9 games in 2009, it might be time for a HC change.

7. Depending on whether you see the glass half empty or half full, the 2008 worst-ever-W/L record Chiefs may have accomplished something not seen since 1962: they discovered a young, talented QB who leads the team and could be around for a decade. I say develop Thigpen and spend draft picks and FA acquistions to rebuild this needy _efense.

We all knew this would be painful, but the antiCarl contingent demanded this kind of rip-it-out-by-the-roots change. The byproducts of a successful rebuild-in-progress are what is noted above: a lot of young, improving talent that is right on the verge winning nearly every game.

Yes, its a homeristic perspective, but I have to say I am encouraged. I see the foundation being laid for a team that may compete for a decade.

KCJohnny
:arrow:

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:22 PM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_8_5.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824YYUS)





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZNxdm824YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZNxdm824YYUS&utm_id=7924)

Extra Point
12-21-2008, 10:24 PM
Point 3: Timeliness is teh suck.

chiefbowe82
12-21-2008, 10:25 PM
half of me says keep herm the other half says move on, bringing in solid youth, but his gameday coaching is questionable

Deberg_1990
12-21-2008, 10:25 PM
Herm seems to have a gift for developing the young players and motivating his team.

Ive especially loved how hes developed his all world defensive line.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:28 PM
Ive especially loved how hes developed his all world defensive line.

His defense that he has built is second to none... Color me impressed...

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2008, 10:29 PM
You couldn't get any more friggin True Fan than that post.

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 10:37 PM
You couldn't get any more friggin True Fan than that post.

and who gives a shit?

Your anti-'true fan' bullshit is no better than someone like Johnny.

The self-entitlement a lot of you meccas show is ridiculous. Get over yourselves.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:38 PM
and who gives a shit?

Your anti-'true fan' bullshit is no better than someone like Johnny.

The self-entitlement a lot of you meccas show is ridiculous. Get over yourselves.
ROFL

Coming from you that is pretty funny Hootie...

KCJohnny
12-21-2008, 10:40 PM
Its OK. I've been called a lot worse things than True Fan.

Chiefs '09.
:arrow:

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 10:41 PM
ROFL

Coming from you that is pretty funny Hootie...

If Herm coached this team to three straight Super Bowls you'd still root against him.

Agent V
12-21-2008, 10:41 PM
1. Doesn't matter. We lost. A defense this bad will ensure that every game.

2. A decent coach would have WON those games. That's every anti-herm's point. This team has some young and talented players and the fact that these "competitive" games are being lost is a good indication of poor game-planning, halftime adjustments, and overall utilization and development of talent.

3. Thigpen, I am now convinced, is not the quarterback of the future. He had a great run, provided some amusement on this offense, but he's not the answer. I'm sorry. I love the kid, but you can't coach accuracy my friend. With a different quarterback coach, we could see improvement, and maybe give him a chance in 09, but I don't see it happening.

What the f**k has Dorsey done to convince you of anything?

4. Removing a single man will not solve ALL the problems. If he is the impediment to progress, and he hired Herman Edwards, then:

Carl = impediment to progress

Carl hired Herman Edwards.

Herman Edwards = impediment to progress

5. No shit.

6. The press is now acknowledging that Herm's job is in jeopardy. This game doesn't help. Get ready, because many (not saying all) signs are pointing to a shift.

7. I love Thigpen, but I'm not sure he's the long term answer. You're deciding that way too quickly.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:42 PM
If Herm coached this team to three straight Super Bowls you'd still root against him.

If Damon Huard quit on the team in 3 straight games, you still would of continued to create hundreds of threads about him...


Luckly I dont have to worry about Herm and Superbowls...

chiefsfan4life1978
12-21-2008, 10:43 PM
I don't think I agree that the Kicking position is sewn up yet. Something about Connor Barth doesn't sit well with me. Maybe it's that he looks goofy as hell.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:43 PM
and who gives a shit?

Your anti-'true fan' bullshit is no better than someone like Johnny.

The self-entitlement a lot of you meccas show is ridiculous. Get over yourselves.

If that means I'm anti Johnny that is one of the greatest compliments I have ever received.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2008, 10:44 PM
and who gives a shit?

Your anti-'true fan' bullshit is no better than someone like Johnny.

The self-entitlement a lot of you meccas show is ridiculous. Get over yourselves.

Someday, Hootie will come home to see his woman fucking another guy. He will then go out drinking with his buddies. After many rounds, they will tell him to get over her, as she wasn't worth being with any way. He will then berate his friends for being pessimists, because there is still a possibility they could work things out.

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 10:44 PM
Herm seems to have a gift for developing the young players

Who is developing on our awesome defense?

Count Zarth
12-21-2008, 10:45 PM
Its OK. I've been called a lot worse things than True Fan.

Chiefs '09.
:arrow:

This will be posted in a year.

Its OK. I've been called a lot worse things than True Fan.

Chiefs '10.
:arrow:

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:45 PM
Who is developing on our awesome defense?

Ron Edwards?

RedThat
12-21-2008, 10:46 PM
the only thing i really feel good about right now is that carl is gone. but this is still a bad mess that gonna take a while to cleanup.

Mecca
12-21-2008, 10:47 PM
Someday, Hootie will come home to see his woman fucking another guy. He will then go out drinking with his buddies. After many rounds, they will tell him to get over her, as she wasn't worth being with any way. He will then berate his friends for being pessimists, because there is still a possibility they could work things out.

His friends in the bar at that time......Damon Huard and an out of work Tyler Thigpen.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:47 PM
the only thing i really feel good about right now is that carl is gone. but this is still a bad mess that gonna take a while to cleanup.

A good GM and HC could have it going in the right direction by the end of 09 and playoff bound in 10...

Agent V
12-21-2008, 10:48 PM
the only thing i really feel good about right now is that carl is gone. but this is still a bad mess that gonna take a while to cleanup.

It's okay! Herm will fix the mess! Carl was the problem! Even though he hired Herm....... Go Herm! You're such a nice guy!

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 10:48 PM
His friends in the bar at that time......Damon Huard and an out of work Tyler Thigpen.

Huard would of been the one doing his girl...

ROFL...

But he wouldnt of left, he would of asked for an autograph first...

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Someday, Hootie will come home to see his woman ****ing another guy. He will then go out drinking with his buddies. After many rounds, they will tell him to get over her, as she wasn't worth being with any way. He will then berate his friends for being pessimists, because there is still a possibility they could work things out.

I'm sorry I've seen improvement on the offense...

Our defense is total shit and our special teams is total shit...but our offense continues to show potential.

I think a full training camp and a few new offensive lineman, along with a year of maturity could equate to this being a pretty damn good offense...and I'm sure we can even work in some behind center plays...as Thigpen hasn't played poorly in the limited snaps he's taken under center since the Atlanta game.

If a new coach is hired and blows it up and delegates Thigpen to back up duty I will 100% root for that offense/QB to succeed.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm sorry I've seen improvement on the offense...

Our defense is total shit and our special teams is total shit...but our offense continues to show potential.

I think a full training camp and a few new offensive lineman, along with a year of maturity could equate to this being a pretty damn good offense...and I'm sure we can even work in some behind center plays...as Thigpen hasn't played poorly in the limited snaps he's taken under center since the Atlanta game.

If a new coach is hired and blows it up and delegates Thigpen to back up duty I will 100% root for that offense/QB to succeed.

Thigpen has earned the right to be the #1 going into minicamp next year, but it should also be a completely open competition. Our offense still needs two lineman and a consistent deep threat, though, along with a franchise QB.

RedThat
12-21-2008, 10:57 PM
why do some still want herm around?

i can't understand it? he is the worst fundamental coach i have ever seen in my life.

and also one of if not the worst game manager in the game today.

*if you cant coach fundamentals well your team is never going to progress no matter how you spin it? this is no coincedence is it? the chiefs are a bad fundamental team and they have been for the last 3,4 years. if not, more.

and if you cant manage games, chances are you're gonna set your team up in bad situations..how many times have we seen this with the chiefs during herms time here?
you set up your team in bad situations you make it harder for your own team and increase their chances of losing.

bad fundamental coach, bad game manager is a recipe for a loser. this is why herm is a loser.

and some people are still implying that they wouldn't mind if herm stays?wow..unbelievable

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 10:59 PM
Thigpen has earned the right to be the #1 going into minicamp next year, but it should also be a completely open competition. Our offense still needs two lineman and a consistent deep threat, though, along with a franchise QB.

If Bradley could stay healthy he'd be a pretty damn good deep threat...that's a big if, though...so that sucks.

I wouldn't mind drafting a QB top 5, I'd prefer a defensive player but a QB would be ok with me...worst case scenario Thigpen sucks and we have a top 5 guy waiting to take over...best case scenario Thigpen continues to improve and win games and the top 5 guy gets to learn on the bench...and then we can make some decisions when necessary.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2008, 11:01 PM
If Bradley could stay healthy he'd be a pretty damn good deep threat...that's a big if, though...so that sucks.

I wouldn't mind drafting a QB top 5, I'd prefer a defensive player but a QB would be ok with me...worst case scenario Thigpen sucks and we have a top 5 guy waiting to take over...best case scenario Thigpen continues to improve and win games and the top 5 guy gets to learn on the bench...and then we can make some decisions when necessary.

Ideally, you'd develop your new QB the same way Denver did Cutler. Give him a 4 game breaking in period off a long week towards the end of the year, and then once he has camp under his belt, let him start the next year #1.

Tyler Thigpen at worst is a good backup. That is nothing to sneeze at. The guy should be in the league for a long time, and there's no reason for the Chiefs to get rid of him any time soon.

RedThat
12-21-2008, 11:04 PM
Ideally, you'd develop your new QB the same way Denver did Cutler. Give him a 4 game breaking in period off a long week towards the end of the year, and then once he has camp under his belt, let him start the next year #1.

Tyler Thigpen at worst is a good backup. That is nothing to sneeze at. The guy should be in the league for a long time, and there's no reason for the Chiefs to get rid of him any time soon.

Nothing to sneeze at i agree with ya. My bets are that with a good coach, he'd do well. i think hes a guy you can with with on a solid team. Chiefs have way worse problems to look in at then tyler thigpen.

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 11:05 PM
Ideally, you'd develop your new QB the same way Denver did Cutler. Give him a 4 game breaking in period off a long week towards the end of the year, and then once he has camp under his belt, let him start the next year #1.

Tyler Thigpen at worst is a good backup. That is nothing to sneeze at. The guy should be in the league for a long time, and there's no reason for the Chiefs to get rid of him any time soon.

by all means, if Thigpen continues to suck in the 4th quarter of winnable games next year and we aren't hovering around .500...the Cutler approach is ok with me.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-21-2008, 11:06 PM
Nothing to sneeze at i agree with ya. My bets are that with a good coach, he'd do well. i think hes a guy you can with with on a solid team. Chiefs have way worse problems to look in at then tyler thigpen.

I think a team could go 10-6 with him if they had a lot of surrounding talent.

I want a QB who can lead a team to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 11:20 PM
I think a team could go 10-6 with him if they had a lot of surrounding talent.

I want a QB who can lead a team to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

sure wish those grew on trees

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 11:25 PM
I think a team could go 10-6 with him if they had a lot of surrounding talent.

I want a QB who can lead a team to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

Well we have a shot to draft and develop one this year.... Cant wait to see whom our GM and coaching staff is comprised of!

Short Leash Hootie
12-21-2008, 11:26 PM
Well we have a shot to draft and develop one this year.... Cant wait to see whom our GM and coaching staff is comprised of!

Can't wait to spam ChiefsPlanet with more coach hate?

I give it a month before you pledge to never return to Arrowhead until *new head coach* is fired.

Reerun_KC
12-21-2008, 11:30 PM
Can't wait to spam ChiefsPlanet with more coach hate?

I give it a month before you pledge to never return to Arrowhead until *new head coach* is fired.


Only way that would happen if it was Marty or Cowher as GM or HC...

Other than that, give me Pioli, Ross or Poilan and Spagnolia or McDaniels and I would be happier than a pig in poop...

I can only imagine the devastation when they release Huard... How will you cope?

And you bitching about spamming after we had to deal with your child like tirades over Huard and the constant spamming of the board???

Hootie, please....

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 02:16 AM
3. Thigpen, I am now convinced, is not the quarterback of the future. He had a great run, provided some amusement on this offense, but he's not the answer. I'm sorry. I love the kid, but you can't coach accuracy my friend. With a different quarterback coach, we could see improvement, and maybe give him a chance in 09, but I don't see it happening.

What the f**k has Dorsey done to convince you of anything?

6. The press is now acknowledging that Herm's job is in jeopardy. This game doesn't help. Get ready, because many (not saying all) signs are pointing to a shift.

7. I love Thigpen, but I'm not sure he's the long term answer. You're deciding that way too quickly.

Thigpen's first year starting is better than Elway's and Aikman's.

Of course you can coach technique! Improved mechanics and film study can help any QB.

Dorsey is one part of a young and patchworked defense. Herm says he coached Warren Sapp at the beginning of his career and Sapp was just as quiet (stats-wise).

You may be right about Thigpen but drafting a QB #1 and trying to develop him will be a risk and set the team back at least one more year (unless we get a Ryan/Flacco success story).

OK, they are showing the game here in Korea a day late. The INT in the 3rd Q was because Devard Claythan Darling ran the wrong route. Thiggy is ovbisously throwing an out while DD is running a diagonal route to the corner of the EZ. 9 times out of 10 those mishaps are the WR's fault. Thigpen was yelling at DD after the pick. Take away that one and the desperation pic at the end of the game and Thiggy has 2 TDs, 1 INT and 320 yards against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

To be fair, he did throw some floaters up there that DD came down with, and perhaps should have been picked once or twice more, but so did Pennington. That tells me that weather was definitley a factor.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 02:25 AM
OK, the game is on in the 4thQ now and the Chiefs O completely disappears. Thigpen clearly is not the same QB as he was in quarters 1-3. Trying to jam the ball in to covered receivers and missed Bowe on a wide open look in the EZ. No real Miami pass rush to speak of.

I think Thigpen was cold. Really. One close up showed his teeth chattering pretty vigorously.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-22-2008, 02:51 AM
Thigpen's first year starting is better than Elway's and Aikman's.


My god. Just stop.

First off: He's a second year player, not a rookie. He's been with this team for 31 games.

Secondly, Rick Friggin' Mirer had a better rookie year than Drew Bledsoe. Threw for more yards with a significantly higher completion % and won more games. It didn't mean that he knew rat shit from rice krispies when it came to being a franchise QB though.

kc rush
12-22-2008, 03:05 AM
Herm says he coached Warren Sapp at the beginning of his career and Sapp was just as quiet (stats-wise).



I didn't realize that Sapp started his career as a DB. Maybe I'm confused, was Herm the D-line coach or the D-coordinator in Tampa?

Fairplay
12-22-2008, 03:06 AM
6. While I admit to the possibility of a HC change, I think that would be a bad decision. Herm seems to have a gift for developing the young players and motivating his team. If the Chiefs don't win 8-9 games in 2009, it might be time for a HC change.

:arrow:

You messed up your aticle when it came to this paragraph.

Herm needs to go.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 03:09 AM
I didn't realize that Sapp started his career as a DB. Maybe I'm confused, was Herm the D-line coach or the D-coordinator in Tampa?

I miquoted Edwards then. He said something to the effect that it took time for Sapp to emerge on TB's squad. Herm was assistant HC/DB coach in TB.

The point being, the jury is still out on Dorsey. And 95% of the people here ragging on Dorsey were jumping up and down for joy on draft day.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 03:10 AM
My god. Just stop.

First off: He's a second year player, not a rookie. He's been with this team for 31 games.

Secondly, Rick Friggin' Mirer had a better rookie year than Drew Bledsoe. Threw for more yards with a significantly higher completion % and won more games. It didn't mean that he knew rat shit from rice krispies when it came to being a franchise QB though.

F-i-r-s-t

y-e-a-r

s-t-a-r-t-i-n-g.

See how that works?

kc rush
12-22-2008, 04:05 AM
I miquoted Edwards then. He said something to the effect that it took time for Sapp to emerge on TB's squad. Herm was assistant HC/DB coach in TB.

The point being, the jury is still out on Dorsey. And 95% of the people here ragging on Dorsey were jumping up and down for joy on draft day.

No doubt you let Dorsey develop, I just hope he gets new coaches (head, coordinator, position) that help him do so.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 06:39 AM
No doubt you let Dorsey develop, I just hope he gets new coaches (head, coordinator, position) that help him do so.

Step one might be scrapping the Cover Who system and the let the D-Coord run the D.

SenselessChiefsFan
12-22-2008, 06:44 AM
1. Doesn't matter. We lost. A defense this bad will ensure that every game.

2. A decent coach would have WON those games. That's every anti-herm's point. This team has some young and talented players and the fact that these "competitive" games are being lost is a good indication of poor game-planning, halftime adjustments, and overall utilization and development of talent.

3. Thigpen, I am now convinced, is not the quarterback of the future. He had a great run, provided some amusement on this offense, but he's not the answer. I'm sorry. I love the kid, but you can't coach accuracy my friend. With a different quarterback coach, we could see improvement, and maybe give him a chance in 09, but I don't see it happening.

What the f**k has Dorsey done to convince you of anything?

4. Removing a single man will not solve ALL the problems. If he is the impediment to progress, and he hired Herman Edwards, then:

Carl = impediment to progress

Carl hired Herman Edwards.

Herman Edwards = impediment to progress

5. No shit.

6. The press is now acknowledging that Herm's job is in jeopardy. This game doesn't help. Get ready, because many (not saying all) signs are pointing to a shift.

7. I love Thigpen, but I'm not sure he's the long term answer. You're deciding that way too quickly.

#2) You are mistaken. The Chiefs are taking an inexperienced young team against more talented more experienced teams and taking them to the wire.

That is good coaching.

The Chiefs have been out of the playoff picture, and guaranteed a losing season for a while, and the team continues to play hard.

That is good coaching.

I don't know if Herm will be back or not. At this point, I have to doubt that he will. I felt like a win yesterday and a win this week would allow him to come back.

But, they will be 3-13. Despite all the close losses, it is hard to bring Herm back under those conditions.

Hoover
12-22-2008, 06:49 AM
I find it sad that since we have drafted so poorl in the past we look at what Herm has done and get excited. I agree we have filled some holes, but as we did that more and more holes on the defense were exposed.

Thigpen is going to remain on this team and either a short term starter or our backup. Look at the debate going on in Dallas about Romo not being a top QB. The problem in Dallas is that the debate came a year too late, dude makes $60 mil and wears gay hats now. Lets not make the same mistake.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:01 AM
I find it sad that since we have drafted so poorl in the past we look at what Herm has done and get excited. I agree we have filled some holes, but as we did that more and more holes on the defense were exposed.

Thigpen is going to remain on this team and either a short term starter or our backup. Look at the debate going on in Dallas about Romo not being a top QB. The problem in Dallas is that the debate came a year too late, dude makes $60 mil and wears gay hats now. Lets not make the same mistake.

Hoovie:
Romo didn't give up back-to-back rushing TDs of 73 and 82 yards on 2 consecutive snaps last weekend.

Thigpen has done more with less experience than any Chiefs QB since Len Dawson in 1962.

Hoover
12-22-2008, 07:08 AM
What? Look at all the weapons Romo has around him, yet they can't do shit on offense.

Thigpen is a nice player but have you ever thought he's closer to being Derrick Anderson than John Elway.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:10 AM
What? Look at all the weapons Romo has around him, yet they can't do shit on offense.

Thigpen is a nice player but have you ever thought he's closer to being Derrick Anderson than John Elway.

Thigpen's stats blow Elway's away head-to-head in both QB's first season as a starter.

Hoover
12-22-2008, 07:12 AM
And I had more money at age 19 than Bill Gates did.

kc rush
12-22-2008, 07:13 AM
#2) You are mistaken. The Chiefs are taking an inexperienced young team against more talented more experienced teams and taking them to the wire.

That is good coaching.

The Chiefs have been out of the playoff picture, and guaranteed a losing season for a while, and the team continues to play hard.

That is good coaching.

I don't know if Herm will be back or not. At this point, I have to doubt that he will. I felt like a win yesterday and a win this week would allow him to come back.

But, they will be 3-13. Despite all the close losses, it is hard to bring Herm back under those conditions.

The team only improved after the offense bottomed out and Herm let Gailey design a scheme that would work with the talent on hand. The offense has kept the team in games while the defense (Herm's area of "strength") has been pitiful and has not allowed the team to win.

The team tends to start out strong, but falter in the second halves of games. This could be because of adjustments or lack of conditioning, either way, that is on the coaches.

Despite keeping the team together (and it does seem to be unraveling lately), Herm is not a good game day coach and deserves to be fired.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:15 AM
Despite keeping the team together (and it does seem to be unraveling lately), Herm is not a good game day coach and deserves to be fired.

Herm made the playoffs 4 of his first 6 years of coaching.

Ebolapox
12-22-2008, 07:15 AM
oh jesus tapdancing tittyfucking christ! now thiggy is the next elway, aikman, and montana wrapped into one!

fuck. you're a goddamned idiot.

kc rush
12-22-2008, 07:20 AM
Herm made the playoffs 4 of his first 6 years of coaching.

This is a what have you done for me lately league. Herm has been a failure here despite backing into the playoffs his first year.

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:29 AM
This is a what have you done for me lately league. Herm has been a failure here despite backing into the playoffs his first year.

I know where you are coming from but when I met Brian Billick in Baghdad in February he told me that Herm was deeply respected around the NFL and a quality, character leader who could motivate teams and develop young players. That changed my mind.

Hoover
12-22-2008, 07:33 AM
So one shitty former coach tells you another shitty coach is respected and its as good as a free hat from Gunther? What happens if Mike Homgren said Herm's a joke and gave you a cookie?

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:40 AM
So one shitty former coach tells you another shitty coach is respected and its as good as a free hat from Gunther? What happens if Mike Homgren said Herm's a joke and gave you a cookie?

Oh please. Billick is a SB-winning coach and a record setting coach on offense and defense.


Next?

Rausch
12-22-2008, 07:42 AM
I know where you are coming from but when I met Brian Billick in Baghdad in February he told me that Herm was deeply respected around the NFL and a quality, character leader who could motivate teams and develop young players. That changed my mind.

So were DV and Marty.

Both probably still are.

But failure is failure. Enough is enough and some line must be drawn in the sand.

Losing close game after close game after close game is not displaying great motivation. It is not evidence of developing a young team.

I did notice improved play from the offensive line and offense as a whole. I'm sure you'll understand if I don't immediately give the credit to Herm for that...

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 07:46 AM
So were DV and Marty.

Both probably still are.

But failure is failure. Enough is enough and some line must be drawn in the sand.

Losing close game after close game after close game is not displaying great motivation. It is not evidence of developing a young team.

I did notice improved play from the offensive line and offense as a whole. I'm sure you'll understand if I don't immediately give the credit to Herm for that...

Granted, but with 18 rookies on the team you need to adjust your "win now" expectations. Losing close games was the key indicator that the 1998 3-13 Colts were about to become the 13-3 1999 Colts and the 1-15 2007 Dolphins were about to become the 2008 10-5 Dolphins.

Sure-Oz
12-22-2008, 07:50 AM
If Herm coached this team to three straight Super Bowls you'd still root against him.

wrong

Rausch
12-22-2008, 08:01 AM
Granted, but with 18 rookies on the team you need to adjust your "win now" expectations. Losing close games was the key indicator that the 1998 3-13 Colts were about to become the 13-3 1999 Colts and the 1-15 2007 Dolphins were about to become the 2008 10-5 Dolphins.

If that had started year 1 I'd have more patience.

We rode a failed plan for two years before deciding to partake in the rebuild that was clearly necessary years before. Even in DV's last year we wondered if the team was too old to get it done.

Carl was as much an obstacle to getting talent on the field (draft, FA, contract negotiations) as a help.

We need a HC with vision and a GM who gets things done...

Guru
12-22-2008, 08:12 AM
Just can the entire coaching staff as soon as the season ends and let the new GM do whatever the hell he wants. There is no reason not to at this point.

Rausch
12-22-2008, 08:19 AM
Just can the entire coaching staff as soon as the season ends and let the new GM do whatever the hell he wants. There is no reason not to at this point.

:clap: